The only people I have ever heard complain about proxies/counterfeit cards are usually the ones who can afford to buy the original cards...it's only a crime if you try to sell a proxy/counterfeit card as the real thing. As a player since 2004, I have come to find that proxies are healthy for newer players to utilize than trying to purchase a $50,000 - $100,000 card or say I'm sorry you can't play with us because your deck is not at our power level. It's always a feel-bad situation under those circumstances. So use the hell out of proxies.
Definitely agree that Proxies are perfectly fine to play in a casual setting. It just gets me when players can't distinguish between a proxy and a counterfeit.
Just got back in with my original crew from the 90s. All of us decided we'd put together a cube. Sooooo yeah. Love me some proxies. Nabbed up a ton from wish last few months. We're loving it.
@@derekhandson351 a bunch of card you randomize into 15 card groups (like a booster pack) to run a in house draft with. Its tons of fun if you have the right playgroup
I started playing in 07 and stopped in 09(ish) and Played some modern in 2015, but the ultimately quit again until 2020, so my collection of cards was all over the place. I was a purist until I started playing EDH, and I understood why people used proxies and counterfeits. I relented and went "if you own it you can proxy it," but then I found how to make my own proxies and buy counterfeits. Now I am "I dont really care." I understand the sentiment that "Counterfeits are hurting the game," but I'd say only on the base level of players playing the game. It doesnt hurt Wizards or Hasbro, full stop. It may hurt novice collectors or flippers/collectors that buy collections in bulk, but I only see it hurting those who play against those who make super powerful decks with a bunch of fake cards (I have first hand experience of pissing off my friend with such a deck.) Then again, I have a devil may care about "crime" in general, especially low level stuff like this.
I have used and will continue to use proxies. I have no problem with cards that are marked as such or are not identical to the originals. The trouble happens as you mentioned when someone has a counterfeit and tries to pass it off as the real thing.
@@VentrickMTG You can always just let them know that you have proxies even though they look like the originals that way there are no mistakes about what the card does with- out having to look it up for the cards seldom seen.
I'm a primarily commander player, and I fully support proxies, been making my own for it. I always make sure that they are VERY clearly not actual magic cards, different art, different borders, and whatnot. to me, magic is a social game, and the social event of casual gameplay among friends should not be gatekeeped but prices or budget.
I LOVE IT! You nailed the topic perfectly. There is a VERY CLEAR LINE between Proxy and Counterfeit. A card becomes Counterfeit when it makes every attempt to appear real and deceive you. A proxy is a card that makes NO attempt to deceive. Bam, simple. Done. Don't buy or support Counterfeits. As for proxy support, I support them 100% and I use everything within my power and on my platform to encourage others to support proxies as well. Proxies allow people who just want to play... to play. The bring real competition back into the game. And it's been my 26 year experience that proxies HELP card prices GO UP. Because nobody wants to be the guy with proxies, almost EVERY TIME people start with proxies but then start buying real cards. Also more people in a format helps with it's popularity, so even just being there for events with a 100% proxy deck STILL HELPS because it supports that event even existing for people with real cards. Nice work Ventrick.
Thanks Edwin. I'm a case in point where Proxies led to re-purchases of the real cards. I sold all my Power in the 90's. I continued to play kitchen table magic with MTG Mox Man, he still had the real cards, but he allowed me to play with proxies. In the end I wanted the real thing back and despite the cost it made me happy. We definitely need to make the older formats more accessible to the general public who may not be able to afford the real thing today, but will covet it and save for it in the future. I actually discovered the Geocities of Brass Proxies by watching your video. :)
Hi there! I like the content. I do agree with your last statement but only to an extent due to the prices of fine luxury cardboard. Which is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.
Loved the break down of the different types of proxies. You referenced the policy of wizards for tournament play, has there ever been an issue where a player has unknowingly been caught using a counterfeit?
Thanks, one of the more well known cases was when Andrew Jessup borrowed a Humans Deck from a friend for a PTQ. During a Deck Check it was discovered that 3 of his Cavern of Souls and 2 of his Horizon Canopy's were fake. Since he did not know they were fake he received a game loss instead of a disqualification and needed to replace the cards with official cards.
I literally buy the proxies at bulk and write PROXY in big words on the back. The front looking the same is all I care about, as I don't want my opponent to be confused on what the card is.
So I suppose the general consensus is that as long as people KNOW they're proxies, then it's permissible in casual play? I am interested in Proxies because I want to bring my Magic Arena cards (That I bought with my own money) to be more physical
But in real world terms if someone created a card that looks just like the original what would be the difference other than that was printed on a different machine?
The only people I have ever heard complain about proxies/counterfeit cards are usually the ones who can
afford to buy the original cards...it's only a crime if you try to sell a proxy/counterfeit card as the real thing.
As a player since 2004, I have come to find that proxies are healthy for newer players to utilize than trying
to purchase a $50,000 - $100,000 card or say I'm sorry you can't play with us because your deck is not at
our power level. It's always a feel-bad situation under those circumstances. So use the hell out of proxies.
Definitely agree that Proxies are perfectly fine to play in a casual setting. It just gets me when players can't distinguish between a proxy and a counterfeit.
@@VentrickMTG They only need to distinguish that when purchasing cards. That is why I let them know
beforehand, always!
Just got back in with my original crew from the 90s. All of us decided we'd put together a cube. Sooooo yeah. Love me some proxies. Nabbed up a ton from wish last few months. We're loving it.
I've heard that term before, what is a cube?
@@derekhandson351 a bunch of card you randomize into 15 card groups (like a booster pack) to run a in house draft with. Its tons of fun if you have the right playgroup
I started playing in 07 and stopped in 09(ish) and Played some modern in 2015, but the ultimately quit again until 2020, so my collection of cards was all over the place.
I was a purist until I started playing EDH, and I understood why people used proxies and counterfeits. I relented and went "if you own it you can proxy it," but then I found how to make my own proxies and buy counterfeits. Now I am "I dont really care."
I understand the sentiment that "Counterfeits are hurting the game," but I'd say only on the base level of players playing the game. It doesnt hurt Wizards or Hasbro, full stop. It may hurt novice collectors or flippers/collectors that buy collections in bulk, but I only see it hurting those who play against those who make super powerful decks with a bunch of fake cards (I have first hand experience of pissing off my friend with such a deck.)
Then again, I have a devil may care about "crime" in general, especially low level stuff like this.
I have used and will continue to use proxies. I have no problem with cards that are marked as such or are not identical to the originals. The trouble happens as you mentioned when someone has a counterfeit and tries to pass it off as the real thing.
@@VentrickMTG You can always just let them know that you have proxies even though
they look like the originals that way there are no mistakes about what the card does with-
out having to look it up for the cards seldom seen.
I'm a primarily commander player, and I fully support proxies, been making my own for it. I always make sure that they are VERY clearly not actual magic cards, different art, different borders, and whatnot. to me, magic is a social game, and the social event of casual gameplay among friends should not be gatekeeped but prices or budget.
Definitely the right way to go about it. I have done and feel the same.
I LOVE IT! You nailed the topic perfectly. There is a VERY CLEAR LINE between Proxy and Counterfeit. A card becomes Counterfeit when it makes every attempt to appear real and deceive you.
A proxy is a card that makes NO attempt to deceive. Bam, simple. Done. Don't buy or support Counterfeits.
As for proxy support, I support them 100% and I use everything within my power and on my platform to encourage others to support proxies as well. Proxies allow people who just want to play... to play. The bring real competition back into the game. And it's been my 26 year experience that proxies HELP card prices GO UP. Because nobody wants to be the guy with proxies, almost EVERY TIME people start with proxies but then start buying real cards. Also more people in a format helps with it's popularity, so even just being there for events with a 100% proxy deck STILL HELPS because it supports that event even existing for people with real cards.
Nice work Ventrick.
Thanks Edwin. I'm a case in point where Proxies led to re-purchases of the real cards. I sold all my Power in the 90's. I continued to play kitchen table magic with MTG Mox Man, he still had the real cards, but he allowed me to play with proxies. In the end I wanted the real thing back and despite the cost it made me happy. We definitely need to make the older formats more accessible to the general public who may not be able to afford the real thing today, but will covet it and save for it in the future. I actually discovered the Geocities of Brass Proxies by watching your video. :)
Hi there! I like the content. I do agree with your last statement but only to an extent due to the prices of fine luxury cardboard. Which is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.
Thanks, Yeah the prices have definitely gone far beyond where I ever imagined them to. Why I have no issues with Proxies.
Loved the break down of the different types of proxies. You referenced the policy of wizards for tournament play, has there ever been an issue where a player has unknowingly been caught using a counterfeit?
Thanks, one of the more well known cases was when Andrew Jessup borrowed a Humans Deck from a friend for a PTQ. During a Deck Check it was discovered that 3 of his Cavern of Souls and 2 of his Horizon Canopy's were fake. Since he did not know they were fake he received a game loss instead of a disqualification and needed to replace the cards with official cards.
I literally buy the proxies at bulk and write PROXY in big words on the back. The front looking the same is all I care about, as I don't want my opponent to be confused on what the card is.
So I suppose the general consensus is that as long as people KNOW they're proxies, then it's permissible in casual play? I am interested in Proxies because I want to bring my Magic Arena cards (That I bought with my own money) to be more physical
But in real world terms if someone created a card that looks just like the original what would be the difference other than that was printed on a different machine?