@@Cordman1221 I mean that is kinda how total war games play, or you can be hyper aggressive and stress the AI...or just autoresolve with a stack of hastati
@@Elenrai Not all of them. On the higher difficulty levels you often have to win battles where autoresolve says no, because the AI gets economic cheats to the max. (cough Warhammer Total War)
@@Valivali94 That's an issue in all total wars. In Empire on max difficulty the untrained militia of the cpu can moral break decently equiped line infantry.
When Octavian lay flat on the beach, doing absolutely nothing. He was doing so because in his experience, any battle in which he had actively taken part in, had ended in disaster. Doing absolutely nothing and let Agrippa sort things out was the best thing Octavian ever did.
It's interesting to consider this from Octavian's perspective. All those military disasters at his age might have been traumatising. Maybe he just wanted to not jinx things further.
@@misterpayah7723 Caesar weeped bitterly upon seeing Alexander's statue. He who had conquered the known world in his late teens to his late twenties. At that point Caesar was past his prime (in years of age). Octavian must have remembered this and realizing he didn't even come close to what his uncle had achieved.
@@AudieHolland idk man Augustus had full mastery of the Roman Empire an empire larger and more stable than anything Alexander had created Octavian is one of the few figures of the time that actually stacks up against Alexander
@@ramadhany2604 depends on when that happened if it happened soon but in a different year, he won’t have time to make the video, and if took a while, we would not have any Historia Civilis videos for almost a year
He wouldn't be a true heir to Caesar if he didn't have miraculous plot armor like Caesar. How Octavian was able to come back from his massive unpopularity, the deadly state-wide famine, the losing war against Sextus, the (brief) rebellion with Lepidus, while doing practically nothing himself, having Agrippa do most of the campaign work, it's all just damn insane
There was basically nobody left. Rome had been in civil war for like decades and after they beat the Conspirators, there was basically nobody left for people to rally around other than him and Antony. And people were just so sick of fighting they'd take him over another war.
@@Jauhl1 well Octavian was at one point, no fucks given, making Agrippa co-emperor/successor. He never had a problem putting mediocre people down to elevate Agrippa, regardless of status.
21:09 Once getting encircled by the fire. Tiberius Claudius Nero abandoned those principles of being a good husband and became a loyal servant of fire itself
I'm impressed how Tiberius Claudius Nero kept picking the losing side and somehow kept his head and ended up being the ancestor of the first dynasty of Roman Emperors.
Tiberius was his son, Claudius his grandson, Caligula his great-grandson, and Nero his great-great-grandson. Also, Claudius was Antony's grandson, Caligula's great-grandson, Nero's great-great-grandson. Caligula was Octavian's great-grandson, and Nero was his great-great-grandson. Caligula was Agrippa's grandson and Nero was his great-grandson. How? Octavian's daughter Julia married Agrippa (daughter Agrippina), and Tiberius' son Drusus married Antonia, daughter of Antonius (sons: Claudius and Germanicus) Germanicus married Agrippina (son: Caligula and grandson of Nero). Crazy house.
The people didn't trust the senate to handle the famine, and during the roits called for Octavian to name himself dictator for life so that he'd have all the power he needed to take care of business instead of just gradually cultivating it, which Octavian always refused to do since that would alienate the senate. They didn't have a problem with him gaining power, the common people never liked the senate anyway, they had a problem with him not gaining enough.
"Things in the east had grown incredibly strange" my brain: scene where mark antony and cleopatra shoot at a man in a deer costume with a bow and arrow
He also built the original Pantheon in Rome. His name is actually on the current one (it was destroyed and rebuilt by a later emperor leaving the modern one).
"Please, send my body back to Rome..." "Sorry, I can't, I have to find this Tribune Aquila guy, and I dunno why I have to ask him permission for everything, but I have to and I can't find him."
Agrippa once begged Octavian to ask Caesar to spare one of his family members to which he agreed to. Agrippa has been loyal to Octavian ever since becoming his second in command.
It was his brother and he found himself on the wrong side of the war. He was spared once but he wasn't gonna be spared twice so Agrippa went to Octavian and begged him to help. I think at this point Octavian just got into Caesar's inner circle so it was a big ask to call in a favor even if Octavian was related to him but Caesar agreed to spare Agrippa's brother and Octavian gained a supporter of undying loyalty
@@zerothefool2437 Well, seeing asCaesar had named him the chief benafactor in his will,Idon't think he'd have said no to pretty much whateve Octvian asked.
@@littlekuribohimposteThis was WAY before Julius Caesar had named Octavian the chief benefactor in his will. That will was brand spanking new, and deposited with the Vestal Virgins just two months before Caesar was assassinated by the Liberators. Octavian was basically the "replacement heir" Caesar was looking for because Mark Antony had failed Caesar in Rome. So much so, that he sent Lepidus to Rome to kick Mark Antony out of his position and take his place. This why Lepidus was the "master of horse" (second in command) at the time of Caesar's murder. ⚔️
Honestly it’s incredible that Octavian, the guy with the least political/military experience and most disliked of the three Triumvirs, was the guy able to come out on top in the end...
I think this whole section was a learning experience for him, while he makes some critical mistakes here you can see some of the genius that is Augustus. For instance, yes it caused a lot of problems taking those farmlands by force and giving them to soldiers, but in the long run it pays off greatly. But he defiantly acted too fast against Sextus after their deal had just been struck.
To be fair, Caesar was a nobudy in his Triunvirate. Pompey was the guy who ended Illyrian piracy and conquered East. Crassus was the richest guy who financed everything. Caesar was the guy who was fucked by King of Bythnia and talked something about land reforms. We all know who got on top.
As much as people give crap to Lepidus, I have to say that he got off extremely well after his whole mess-up. To die of old age in your retirement Villa whilst being the Highest Priest in the entire Empire is probably one of the best ways for a defeated politician to go out during those times.
@@hydromancer4916 But then, History would have respected Lepidus. Antony went out fighting and we still talk about him with respect, while Lepidus is still talked as a weak man.
@@WolfofAsia012 How could history respect Lepidus if his own soldiers did not? They seem to be deserting him whenever they could, either to Anthony or to Octavian.
@@Fisher9001 Fair enough. I don’t think he was as competent leader as Octavian or even Antony. Whatever the case might be, if he had been able to put up a fight like Antony or even like sextus pompeius and died in combat or suicide. He would have been seen as a strong man in history. Then again, he can’t act as strong if he is not. Cato, Brutus, Antony, Cassius all these men went with dignity unlike Lepidus
@@Slender_Man_186 Lack of need, mostly. If you control all the land surrounding a body of water, the value of having a good navy goes down since you don't have to worry about foreign fleets or pirates as much.
@Dylan Rodrigues briefly, yeah. Many bolshevik fighters committed suicide because the revolution turned into what it did. It's a truly saddening bit of forgotten history.
@@highcouncil1302 it's more than their massive population. Romans had a reputation for being exceptionally resilient and stubborn. Rome lost more than 20% of their fighting male population in the Punic Wars... Any other nation in that period with those losses would have capitulated or went into total disaster at the least. Look at the very early history of Rome. Like Kingdom to early Republic. Rome was sacked and on the verge of complete defeat multiple times, but always came back on top. Yes population has something to do with their comebacks, but it's not a unidimensional thing. There was something about the Roman spirit that made them so hard to capitulate.
Brave Octavian ran away Bravely ran away, away When danger reared its ugly head He bravely turned his tail and fled Yes brave Octavian turned about and gallantly he chickened out Bravely taking to his feet he beat a very brave retreat Bravest of the brave Octavian!
Tiberius was so extremely loyal probably more loyal than any other person in history, at least if we combine all the different sides he's been loyal to
@@togekiss09 yes he was? the acusations of the court in Constantinople were false, he never intended to become emperor. And even there he took another campaing when Justinian asked him to do it, completly loyal.
Always impressed with the level of detail you go into. Every time I watch your content, even if it’s about something I already know tons about, I finish the video having learned something new. Keep it up, dude!
Boat King Sextus Pompeius might be my favorite minor character in the series. Just, absolute video game boss energies, "I'm the boat-themed commander and you'll need to win against me in a boat battle to continue" 😆
Agrippa is a bro indeed, eligible for a triumph but didn’t do it because his bro just lost. Also impressive how he lost the first naval battle, then draws, then took small victories, and then won a huge one, That’s anime character level of progression!
He introduced changes to the triremes, which enabled him to later dominate Pompey's ships. After capturing a large number of Illyrian ships, he studied them and introduced a new type of ship: the liburna, which enabled him to maneuver superiorly over Antony's ships at Actium. Ever since the Greco-Persian Wars, the only innovation up to his time was the introduction of the corvus, over which the legionaries crossed and captured the Carthaginian ships, which were the same in everything else.
I mean imagine him celebrating a triumph in the middle of a blockade and famine... I feel like the starving people and just all of Rome might find it in poor taste to party while everyone is angry and starving
@@gabrielethier2046 To be fair, his loyalty was to his state, to Rome instead of Caesar. By all means, he was a patriot trying to preserve the Republic.
@@gabrielethier2046 He defected to Pompey Magnus partly because A, Caesar didn't consult with him before crossing the Rubicon and B, because he considered taking up arms against the Republic to be morally repugnant, which would explain why he fought what I would call the long defeat. I wasn't talking about loyalties, I was talking about being reliable and badass second-in-commands like Labienus for Julius Caesar and Agrippa for Octavian Caesar.
@@admontblanc you are great man! Now that you state it that way it seems so obvious to me! I mean who else could have achieve such a glorious feat but the son of the divine Julius?
@@Thelaretus honestly I’d love some more non-Roman history. For example I’d be interested in watching more videos on the English Civil War/English Republic
@Lionheart Lucas I would add to that Antony's massive idiocy. Man was a dumbass. This was seen when he brought his soldiers in the pomerium, not to mention his disastrous Parthian campaign. Don't forget that completely left Rome in the hands of Octavian, who was free to manipulate to political web in his favour. That wasn't helped by the fact that Antony "turned native" and "married that Egyptian witch", or so the sources claim. Ultimately though, the real reason Octavian was successful, was because he was tremendously lucky to have a man of Agrippa's caliber on his side. All victories can be attributed to Agrippa. If it wasn't for him, we would be speaking of "Consul Liberator Boat King" these days.
@@karimm.elsayad9539 "If it wasn't for him, we would be speaking of "Consul Liberator Boat King" these days." To be honest, I feel like we've all missed out in this regard. He was the BOAT KING of ROME!
So, in summary: Octavian attacks, everyone dies. Octavian attacks a second time, most of his men die. For a third attack, Octavian sends out a huge suicide diversion, still half of his remaining men die. Then he just runs away. But Lepidus is the one who isn't popular with his men?
Honestly, ole' Lepi's retirement wasn't so bad at all. Octavian had the shrewdness in taking care of his former enemies well while keeping a close eye on them. The man basically spent the latter years of his life in a nice big house in sunny Florida with his family, got to live the full life. Quite well for that period.
@@mrsnulch yeah glory, there’s a lot of glory for people like Antony in winning multiple battles then impaling himself on a sword because his wife got her ass kicked under Actium, and ordered him to do so. Lepidus chilled as Pontifex Maximus so he still was an important part of Roman politics, and for a change could see his children and grandchildren grow up without them being slaughtered by his wife (as our Octavian did).
@@peterinasen4320 You’re right. People always talk about glory and honor or whatever but never actually would choose these if presented with the choice of giving up their family for them.
As it seems Lepidus got the best deal in the end - although we do not know the exact personality of him - but he managed to survive, having another 23 years of relative peace, probably having a luxurious lifestyle without all the hustle of high politics ... I wish we could knew about such things - a personal diary, etc. ... it could give much insight into the mindset of such prominent historical figures, from them we could learn much even today!
It wasn’t the best, he could have remained in power if he had not left Africa. Also his son was in a plot againt Octavian later on so he had to live to see his son executed
32:23 I can actually see good reason for this happening outside of him going "lol, bored now." Octavian's life depends on the outcome of this battle, however there's literally nothing he can do to influence it. So instead of stressing, panicking or jumping to conclusions the same way the more experienced Cassius did, Octavian sits down and waits for the news that will decide his fate. I won't speculate if he had a moment of introspection while this was happening, but I can believe that he did.
@@valentinaaugustina let us not pretend Antony is any better, remember that whole incident when the mobs was rioting through the city and the senate asked him for help and he just marched away? Or that when he did come back to put it down it was incredibly bloody and violent?
First of all, great taste with that snatcher pfp. To be fair to the dude, he had no real option to do anything else. It was either this or more taxes. Caesar was a man who'd seen and done a lot of shit by the time he got into power. Octavian was more of a schemer and a politician at the start. When he got more time, he ruled really well.
@@superm530 That is why you mentor your heir with your ruling character so you have a better chance of them turning out decent. But they could die before it is time for them to take the throne and you get stuck with the extra you never planned on having rule in the first place. Sometimes primogeniture can bite you in the ass if the first born son is rubbish though. And apparently everyone gets mad if you try to have the little shit poisoned for the good of the realm.
Ceasar was a fucking genius with decades of experience under his belt, was one of the best strategists EVER (arguably THE best), and came in at the perfect time to absolutely dominate Roman politics. Octavian was a kid in his 20's with no experience, a relatively poor general, and had to fight what was essentially a war on three fronts in the middle of the most turbulent era in Rome's entire history. Everything was chaos, yet amidst all of it he still came out a winner. He was more than deserving of the name Julius Gaius Caesar.
Wow, seems like the problem is that they kept giving Cesar and Octavian time to grow stronger instead of beating them while they where in a weaker position. Can't really blame them tho, because the romans went through so much shit in these last hundred years that any promise of peace was really tempting
Yeah it's almost like they didn't have the loyalty of countless soldiers. Look what happened when they tried to move against Caesar. More conflict. Give the man what he wants and he'll live on content, corner him, and he'll struggle at every step to come out on top.
It was a good 18 centuries later but I really like how at one point there were two Kingdoms of Sicily and then they united and called it the kingdom of the Two Sicilies. Classic Sicilian move.
Well I mean he sounds like a bad person really. And not even good at war, just lucky and good at screwing over people who would be his allies if he didn't.
@@BatCostumeGuy Yeah and then he blew up his own liver or an officer stabbed him in he back, and his whole empire crumbled in a generation and is just an interesting foot note in history. Meanwhile our boy Augustus lived long and his empire lasted 350 years after him, longer if you count the Byzantines.
That's like saying Ghengis Khan was young when he razed his first city to the ground killing all inhabitants (this was a thing he did if they didn't immediately surrender when they saw a vague horse-like shape on the horizon). (...And yes he was). There's youthful stupidity, there's blatant military stupidity, and then there's being a sadistic power-hungry sociopath who massacres large numbers of people for fun. Youth doesn't make up for options 2 and 3. ...And didn't Octavian start that last war? Wasn't it a completely unnecessary war too? (he didn't want to feed his starving people with his own cash, I'm assuming).
yea its amazing i always assumed that Octavian was this brilliant strategist beloved by the people but in real life the man was a borderline sociopath with some terrible ideas
Remember he was only 19 when all this started. He had a lot of learning to do. And Mr Civilis is very biased in his assessment of the sources regarding Octavian - every piece of bad gossip told by writers many years after his death is regarded as truth, and every success is regarded as someone else's. The accusation of 'human sacrifice' after Perugia was made by Suetonius and Dio at least 100 years after he events and after the Julio-Claudian line of Emperors had been extinguished. The veracity of this has been debated for centuries. Human sacrifice was outlawed in Rome in 97 BC - lots of scholars think this was anti Julio-Claudian propaganda. Other ancient writers do not mention this event at all. I am not saying he was a Saint, but History is always much more nuanced. For a 19 yr old kid to become Emperor of the known world he must have been quite a bit more than a sickly, sick, deranged, sociopathic incompetent don't you think? Very entertaining vid though!
@@JustinCage56 cant really blame him, he was disliked by Augustus, forced to divorce his wife which he was happily married to, his beloved brother dying in his arms, and the whole Sejanus fiasco. If anything Im surprised he didn’t go insane by that point.
@@nothisispatrick4644 It's heavily implied he along with his mother and others within the Claudian dynasty suffered from some form of bipolar disorder. With Tiberius growing up with already heavy signs of depression, those elements you listed only made his condition worse. This may also explain Caligula's lunacy and/or Claudius speech impediment/ manic spells of wanting purge the senate.
The best part of discovering your channel just recently is that I can binge all of your Caesar and Rome videos. The bad part is realizing you've just binged every video on the channel and now you're fiending for more.
It takes an octavian and an aggripa to make a full grown julius caesar. I like to think how both of them knew what skills have and lack on eachother. And aggripa didnt just renounce his triumph he knew what octavian was capable of and how promesing his future was by his side
Duh. It's the fucking Cesar. He is a VERY VERY rare case of a single person being both the finest political mind (his opponent was Cicero probably the finest speaker Rome ever had), the finest military mind (his military opponent was Pompey, man who Romans pretty much thought off as unbeatable in war) AND had a "healthy" dose of fucking plot armor for those cases where things just don't go your way. :D Many a Western European politician and or solder has thought of himself as a new Cesar able to combine both military and civilian matters under one person, VERY VERY few succeded no matter how good of a stateman or solder they were.
Cesar was the finest political mind but he was killed by the guy he trusted, most of which he pardoned. Octavian on the other hand killed his enemies and thrived, changing Rome Forever in the process. Cesare was too full of himself and his auto representation as a god to win in the end.
@@stefanogandino9192 yeah Caesar’s one mistake was pardoning his enemies. If he proscribed the Pompeians he probably would’ve been the first emperor of Rome, but he refused to do it because he had empathy and understood how terrible proscription was as he was on Sulla’s proscription lists. Octavian was a sociopath and wasn’t alive when Sulla was dictator so he had zero qualms about murdering anybody who got in his way
Rome: hmm... our soldiers are retiring from their incredibly tough job. Let’s give them a relaxing life, doing another equally grueling profession that they don’t know anything about and that is incredibly important for the survival of our state.
Part of it was just a cultural thing; Romans thought that farmers were so good man, dont you wanna be like a farmer, it builds character. It's partially reflected in how in the early-mid Republic, army recruitment required one to own land, and pay for your equipment. Quasi-Mythical figures in the early-early Republic like Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus, twice elected to dictatorship, both times left that office peacefully after the crisis was gone. Dude was an old man who had to be figuratively dragged off his small farm each time and went right back to plowing and whatever afterwards. Part of the reason stuff like that might've worked more in the early days I imagine is becuase the soldiers were farmers prior to service so there wasnt the realization of "oh god this sucks" when they got back the farm, and partly Rome was a city-state and they didnt need to have armies in the field all the time to deal with crises going on in Hispania or Egypt. Over time I imagine they made an association between farming, soldierly uh soldiers, and good conduct vis a vis CINCINNATUS, and came to the conclusion oh dang growing olives and shit is the way to do it. Even as the number of landowners got smaller and used slaves to manage their estates, they still fetishised those old man workin hard on the farm values to some degree.
Farming isn't that hard. You basically have two months a year when you need to work 80+ hour weeks and then you'll rarely work 30 for the rest of the year. compared to constant drilling, marching, building forts, and the threat of being skewered on a gladius, farming would be a vacation.
@@Zwickerly2 well the problem with farming is, that you need much knowledge on how to plant and grow different kinds of plants. And that is the hard part in farming, some plants maybee easy to plant, but others are quite difficult and need much care, if you never farmed before problems will arise.
We joke, but unless I'm mistaken for a while in the middle ages there was a time of year in between planting and harvesting the food that was specifically used as a "season of war". To me this makes this joke twice as funny
I feel like you kind of glossed over how Agrippa was able to defeat Sextus in the battle of Naulochus. You really make it seem like they wasted all their time and money, but the reality is they won the battle because in the time they were digging the harbors and training the navy inland they improved on the naval weaponry inventing the "Harpax." This is how Agrippa was able to Defeat Sextus so suddenly when it seemed like they were helpless to Sextus for so long.
At first, it seems inexplicable that Octavian, the most junior and inexperienced triumvir, was the one to eventually become sole master of the Roman Empire, but it makes more sense the more you think about it. Octavian, in addition to being an extremely shrewd and deft politician, was fortunate to have both the material wealth and social prestige and reverence that came with being the son of Caesar, along with having the undying loyalty of the most capable general of his generation (Agrippa), the assistance of a pragmatic and capable advisor who curbed Octavian’s worst impulses and kept close eyes on what was happening in Rome (Maecenas), and a marriage to a personally magnetic women who could go toe-to-toe with any male politician when it came to intelligence and political acumen (Livia). Add on top of that the fact that Octavian was going up against an uninspiring and relatively passive man in Lepidus and essentially the ancient Roman equivalent of a drunken frat boy in Antony-who was pretty much slipping on banana peel after banana peel in the 12 or so years following Philippi-and it begins to make sense why Octavian was the one to come out on top.
I imagine Octavian's argument to the Senate went something like "Guys, we need to scrounge up a million years' worth of back pay. You wanna start seizing land or you wanna go out and explain to the legions that they aren't getting paid?"
@@timothymclean I mean, _now_ it is, yes. But back then the idea of a strict social and fiscal hierarchy was so ingrained into society that even the people starving to death would've looked at you like you were a maniac if you chose option 1.
@@timothymclean Wrong. The obvious answer today isn't to dump the burden on the poor; the obvious answer is to dump the burden on the middle class. The poor tend to not pay anything and stay stuck there -or they die like in places with close to no social systems.
There's strong evidence that many of the cruelties ascribed to him actually never happened and were invented to discredit the whole Julio-Claudian dynasty in the late first century AD. Historia Civilis unfortunately presents many things as facts despite them being hotly debated among historians without a clear consensus.
You're wrong. His ghost was content with the fact that I planted the seeds to keep things civilized 400+ years. What happened when that Shah LARPING Alexander the Greekoid died?
@@augustuscaesar8287 while berating your dumbass at the same time as for alex, passed on to his generals who then proceeded to oof things apart instantly instead of like anointing his dead little brother (whom historia civilis sussed was killed instead) as back up successor but i highly doubt shit works anyways. as blue from overly sarcastic productions once said of the development of rome, a slow burn, expand little by little, taking lessons from alex's tendency to pay 2 rush build, but never taken by attila the hun to get that shit taught all the way to ching khan
I think he'll probably continue after Octavian's coronation as emperor with the early empire, but I think he should focus on Marius and Sulla, too. That content is best suited to his channel and there's barely any content out there about it, while there's much about the empire.
These videos are truly great. I especially appreciate how you show everything you're talking about on a map throughout the video. I grasp and understand the whole situation SO much better because of that.
"Ulysses in a frock" was in no way praise. Ulysses (Odysseus) was famous for his shrewdness and cunning, which the Romans found dishonest and dishonourable.
Octavian was one of history’s great figures, and you would think that he’s infallible in a sense. But in reality, he made a lot of wrong decisions as well, and at no point was it certain that he would come out victorious. The part where he landed in Italy after abandoning his army in Sicily, and sitting in a cave, contemplating his feels of being defeated, that’s quite relatable in a way.
I would agree, but by the end season, the series already fast forwarded through all that was in this video... to the battle with Anthony and Cleo and their sucides. So... most of the rest was actually boring... Octavian "retired" and Agrippa started building aqueducts and roads and some temples and stuff.... it would be like watch Octavian take it up the butt by firm strong men and women while telling other aristocratic women adultery is a sin against the state. And it's building time with Agrippa. I would like to have some moments with with the fictional characters though, doing crazy Roman things.
@@ProjectPaladin it’s a shame. It was rushed because George RR Martin signed with HBO to do Game of Thrones so they had a decision to make: cut Rome and do GOT.
For all of Lepidus' bad luck, I think it's worth noting how he's the *only* of Octavian/Augustus' rivals who got to die in comfort and of old age. It's the reason Machiavelli notes how Augustus was a "good" prince in the sense that he utterly destroyed all his rivals and real or perceived enemies early on, and then when he stopped the murder-spree, people assumed cruelty was just a passing thing and Augustus' sense of justice and order were truer to his character. I can't help but wonder if Caesar knew what Octavian was, and named him his heir as base vengeance in case he was murdered.
He learned from Caesar's death that mercy might be a popular policy but not a reliable one, after the end of the Battle of Philippi the survivors of the losing side (that didn't feel in the mood to follow Cassius and Brutus' example) were quick to change sides but specifically to Antonious since Octavian had the reputation of being merciless due the bloodshed that already had happened in Italy. But by the time the conspiracy of Lepidus the Younger took place he already was so much in control of the institutions that there was no necessity for massacres even if the death of Lepidus could had been of some use since he had the office of Pontifex Maximus, but Augustus just humilliated him some more and nothing else since he probably had no part in the activities of him son.
Mm nah Lepidus was kind of a coward and a weakling. At the start of the 2nd triumvirate he saved Anthony’s ass in Gaul and commanded the most legions making him rightfully the senior member. While Octavian and Antony were campaigning in the east he should’ve been in Rome building up a steady power base and gathering allies amongst the senatorial class. The most foolish part of this whole thing though is he let Octavian who was in a god-awful absolutely horrendous position outplay and outsmart him at every turn. The end of the video just made Lepidus look even more like a bitch. It turned out this whole time he wasn’t just some honorable dude who didn’t care about politics or gaining power, nah he demanded Sicily and in return he lost the command of his troops as well as his all his lands.
13:48 *Strongboy*
StrongBoi
Boy Strong
Strongboy
Strongboyy
A man of culture
The image of Octavian lying on his back on the beach having hit "autoresolve battle" is sending me.
That moment when you are so bad at an RTS you just stack everything you can, hit autoresolve and don't look
@@Cordman1221 I mean that is kinda how total war games play, or you can be hyper aggressive and stress the AI...or just autoresolve with a stack of hastati
@@Elenrai Not all of them. On the higher difficulty levels you often have to win battles where autoresolve says no, because the AI gets economic cheats to the max. (cough Warhammer Total War)
@@Valivali94 That's an issue in all total wars. In Empire on max difficulty the untrained militia of the cpu can moral break decently equiped line infantry.
This is basically what I did during the 2020 election
When Octavian lay flat on the beach, doing absolutely nothing.
He was doing so because in his experience, any battle in which he had actively taken part in, had ended in disaster.
Doing absolutely nothing and let Agrippa sort things out was the best thing Octavian ever did.
Nah he just hit autoresolve
It's interesting to consider this from Octavian's perspective. All those military disasters at his age might have been traumatising. Maybe he just wanted to not jinx things further.
@@misterpayah7723 Caesar weeped bitterly upon seeing Alexander's statue. He who had conquered the known world in his late teens to his late twenties.
At that point Caesar was past his prime (in years of age).
Octavian must have remembered this and realizing he didn't even come close to what his uncle had achieved.
@@AudieHolland idk man Augustus had full mastery of the Roman Empire an empire larger and more stable than anything Alexander had created Octavian is one of the few figures of the time that actually stacks up against Alexander
@@caesarion4975 One tiny little difference: Octavian sucked as a military commander.
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it, but this video was released on the anniversary of Octavian being proclaimed as Augustus, Jan 16th 27 BC
Spoilers!
So, we can predict Historia Civillis will release Antony video on the anniversary he committed suicide?
@@ramadhany2604 depends on when that happened if it happened soon but in a different year, he won’t have time to make the video, and if took a while, we would not have any Historia Civilis videos for almost a year
@@ramadhany2604 He committed suicide on August 1st, so I hope not
Thank you for noticing.
He wouldn't be a true heir to Caesar if he didn't have miraculous plot armor like Caesar. How Octavian was able to come back from his massive unpopularity, the deadly state-wide famine, the losing war against Sextus, the (brief) rebellion with Lepidus, while doing practically nothing himself, having Agrippa do most of the campaign work, it's all just damn insane
There was basically nobody left. Rome had been in civil war for like decades and after they beat the Conspirators, there was basically nobody left for people to rally around other than him and Antony. And people were just so sick of fighting they'd take him over another war.
"In his will, Caesar gave Octavius the most precious thing he possessed. He gave him his plot armour."
Pretty broken if you ask me.
@@ihaveachihuahau yeah that makes a lot of sense
And then go back to actually show his administrative skills and start the Roman empire and the Pax Romana.
@@getass3290 administrative skills like stealing the farms of thousands of poor romans, during a famine. Uh huh, I guess that could be called skilled
Dude the friendship between Agrippa and Octavian is something else. He renounced a TRIUMPH just because his friend would look bad. Wow
@quotetheraven90 Or like Belissarius.
Agrippa was lowborn owning his elevation to Octavian's confidence. Upstaging his patron clearly wasn't a smart thing.
Historian: They were like friends, right?
Another historian: Yeah, best friends.
@@Jauhl1 well Octavian was at one point, no fucks given, making Agrippa co-emperor/successor. He never had a problem putting mediocre people down to elevate Agrippa, regardless of status.
@quotetheraven90 Come on Man, SPOILER!
I live for this series. Please never stop
Horry sheet
Same here
Same. 6 months is too long! If I were rich I'd pay this man for a weekly episode
it s the ⬛
This should continue until the modern age
21:09
Once getting encircled by the fire. Tiberius Claudius Nero abandoned those principles of being a good husband and became a loyal servant of fire itself
Lmao
I doubt Nero caused the fire.
I'm impressed how Tiberius Claudius Nero kept picking the losing side and somehow kept his head and ended up being the ancestor of the first dynasty of Roman Emperors.
Tiberius was his son, Claudius his grandson, Caligula his great-grandson, and Nero his great-great-grandson. Also, Claudius was Antony's grandson, Caligula's great-grandson, Nero's great-great-grandson. Caligula was Octavian's great-grandson, and Nero was his great-great-grandson. Caligula was Agrippa's grandson and Nero was his great-grandson.
How? Octavian's daughter Julia married Agrippa (daughter Agrippina), and Tiberius' son Drusus married Antonia, daughter of Antonius (sons: Claudius and Germanicus) Germanicus married Agrippina (son: Caligula and grandson of Nero). Crazy house.
@@drazenbicanic3590 so in the end, the first roman dynasty was like a combo of all the major players (minus lepidus) during that final civil war
@cokelover9001 that may not have been a major player but he sure have won big with keeping himself out of that shitshow.
@@davidguo4123It's like a fanfic where all the children of the OG main cast end up all dating each other, except it was real.
@@trustytrest They also murder eachother, so...
That face when "Tiberius Claudius Nero" is none of the three people you think about when hearing that name
but at least his son was
@@usernamesareoverrated2505 and his grandson and his other grandson's grandson.
the guy gave away his wife for an empire to his lineage.
@@nemlas85 For the glory of the Empire of course.
what i was thinking
@@nemlas85 So, he was basically the chaddest c*ck ever?
Also, why did youtube delete my first comment where I wrote that?
Agrippa's back must have hurt from carrying Octavian so much.
Well, he was a strongboy...
This is just the beginning...
Brains and brawn duo
Nah, Octavian was nice and light.
At night they changed positions
Octavian: ends a famine he caused
The people of Rome: Give that man an award
4d chess.
Doesn't matter what millennium it is...
people are effing dumb.
Step 1: Create the problem
Step 2: Fix the problem
Step 3: Profit.
@@thibautnarme6402 Step 2 is 3 and step 3 is 4, step 2 is offer solution.
The people didn't trust the senate to handle the famine, and during the roits called for Octavian to name himself dictator for life so that he'd have all the power he needed to take care of business instead of just gradually cultivating it, which Octavian always refused to do since that would alienate the senate. They didn't have a problem with him gaining power, the common people never liked the senate anyway, they had a problem with him not gaining enough.
"Things in the east had grown incredibly strange"
my brain: scene where mark antony and cleopatra shoot at a man in a deer costume with a bow and arrow
Ah season 2, good old days.
enter extra history exit ceasar enter antony
Ah a trve roman
What show is this?
@@Magabes_ HBO's Rome
Roman political intrigue, a good way to start the day
This is, indeed, my favorite day to start the day.
Start? Where do you live that this is the start of the day?
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Prolly America
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Mexico, it’s still somewhat early around here
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Not close to the green witch's territory.
Agrippa was a goddamn legend. Military master, amazing friend, and made fun zoomy sounds whenever he moved. We all need an agrippa in our lives
He also built the original Pantheon in Rome. His name is actually on the current one (it was destroyed and rebuilt by a later emperor leaving the modern one).
Agrippa is a Jetson.
@@ihaveachihuahau Yeah IMHO, he left a bigger legacy as an architect than as a military commander.
Agrippa is just something else. Too strange and amazing. Were it only that all of mankind could be as grand.
We need Agrippa deez nuts
"Please, send my body back to Rome..."
"Sorry, I can't, I have to find this Tribune Aquila guy, and I dunno why I have to ask him permission for everything, but I have to and I can't find him."
😂
Caesar making his 43th Aquila joke of the week.
People around Caesar: Oh here we go again
You made me crylaugh
This joke will never get old
This Aquila must be the best running gag on the series so far
Agrippa once begged Octavian to ask Caesar to spare one of his family members to which he agreed to. Agrippa has been loyal to Octavian ever since becoming his second in command.
It was his brother and he found himself on the wrong side of the war. He was spared once but he wasn't gonna be spared twice so Agrippa went to Octavian and begged him to help.
I think at this point Octavian just got into Caesar's inner circle so it was a big ask to call in a favor even if Octavian was related to him but Caesar agreed to spare Agrippa's brother and Octavian gained a supporter of undying loyalty
@@zerothefool2437 Well, seeing asCaesar had named him the chief benafactor in his will,Idon't think he'd have said no to pretty much whateve Octvian asked.
@@littlekuribohimposteThis was WAY before Julius Caesar had named Octavian the chief benefactor in his will. That will was brand spanking new, and deposited with the Vestal Virgins just two months before Caesar was assassinated by the Liberators.
Octavian was basically the "replacement heir" Caesar was looking for because Mark Antony had failed Caesar in Rome. So much so, that he sent Lepidus to Rome to kick Mark Antony out of his position and take his place.
This why Lepidus was the "master of horse" (second in command) at the time of Caesar's murder. ⚔️
"Enter Marcus Agrippa"
Oh yeah, it's all coming together now.
I feel like Agrippa is the type of character that would have a sick theme song that plays each time he's announced or enters a room.
@@Nikolaj11 in this season he comes in on a Jetsons car
The way he was described sounded like he was some sort of shonen anime protagonist.
Everyone’s gotta love Agrippa da Rippa.
@@brickstonesonn9276 He was such a shonen protagonist he got a whole video game of him being one.
Honestly it’s incredible that Octavian, the guy with the least political/military experience and most disliked of the three Triumvirs, was the guy able to come out on top in the end...
I think this whole section was a learning experience for him, while he makes some critical mistakes here you can see some of the genius that is Augustus. For instance, yes it caused a lot of problems taking those farmlands by force and giving them to soldiers, but in the long run it pays off greatly. But he defiantly acted too fast against Sextus after their deal had just been struck.
To be fair, Caesar was a nobudy in his Triunvirate. Pompey was the guy who ended Illyrian piracy and conquered East. Crassus was the richest guy who financed everything. Caesar was the guy who was fucked by King of Bythnia and talked something about land reforms.
We all know who got on top.
@@aleksapetrovic6519 everyone's story starts somewhere, and they're not always grand starts
@@Riku-zv5dk That'a true, but how many people started the story as "I met our client king and I was the bottom?"
@@aleksapetrovic6519 LMAO
As much as people give crap to Lepidus, I have to say that he got off extremely well after his whole mess-up.
To die of old age in your retirement Villa whilst being the Highest Priest in the entire Empire is probably one of the best ways for a defeated politician to go out during those times.
I second this.
If Lepidus and Octavian had actually gone to war, he wouldn't have gotten off so easily.
@@hydromancer4916 But then, History would have respected Lepidus. Antony went out fighting and we still talk about him with respect, while Lepidus is still talked as a weak man.
@@WolfofAsia012 How could history respect Lepidus if his own soldiers did not? They seem to be deserting him whenever they could, either to Anthony or to Octavian.
@@Fisher9001 Fair enough. I don’t think he was as competent leader as Octavian or even Antony. Whatever the case might be, if he had been able to put up a fight like Antony or even like sextus pompeius and died in combat or suicide. He would have been seen as a strong man in history.
Then again, he can’t act as strong if he is not.
Cato, Brutus, Antony, Cassius all these men went with dignity unlike Lepidus
Sextus Pompey. The proof that Romans can actually sail through something larger than a puddle and not sink.
Seriously, how do you have near total control over the Mediterranean, but then not take advantage of that by having the best navy around?
@@Slender_Man_186 Lack of need, mostly. If you control all the land surrounding a body of water, the value of having a good navy goes down since you don't have to worry about foreign fleets or pirates as much.
@@Slender_Man_186 after carthage they did have the greatest navy in the Mediterranean
@@kingt0295 well possibly the only navy in the Mediterranean minus some Greek city states and Eygpt
@@zealousdoggo Because the defeated them.
"Who would pretend to care about the poor?" Good to see that some things never change.
Amen and Awoman to that.
I mean there are exeptions in both times, the Gracchi brothers and the Bolsheviks are examples
@Dylan Rodrigues I knew I would piss off some people but that was fast
Someone famous once said _Let them eat_ 🎂 🍰
@Dylan Rodrigues briefly, yeah. Many bolshevik fighters committed suicide because the revolution turned into what it did. It's a truly saddening bit of forgotten history.
This era of roman history is astonishing to me in how dudes can lose massive amounts of soldiers and then just come back with more
Rome had a massive population this is why they were able to win the Punic War despite horrific losses like Canne
@@highcouncil1302 it's more than their massive population. Romans had a reputation for being exceptionally resilient and stubborn. Rome lost more than 20% of their fighting male population in the Punic Wars... Any other nation in that period with those losses would have capitulated or went into total disaster at the least.
Look at the very early history of Rome. Like Kingdom to early Republic. Rome was sacked and on the verge of complete defeat multiple times, but always came back on top.
Yes population has something to do with their comebacks, but it's not a unidimensional thing. There was something about the Roman spirit that made them so hard to capitulate.
@@comrade7376 true
That's roman history. You kill one soldier, three more get levy'd to join in his place.
The numbers are simplye exaggerated.
Brave Octavian ran away
Bravely ran away, away
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled
Yes brave Octavian turned about
and gallantly he chickened out
Bravely taking to his feet
he beat a very brave retreat
Bravest of the brave Octavian!
Monthy Python?
This is the song his legionaries sing during his triumph for retaking Sicily
"I did not!" -possibly Octavian
Good reference
Epic
Tiberius was so extremely loyal probably more loyal than any other person in history, at least if we combine all the different sides he's been loyal to
Good one.
Not even Belisarius himself was as loyal.
@@togekiss09 yes he was? the acusations of the court in Constantinople were false, he never intended to become emperor. And even there he took another campaing when Justinian asked him to do it, completly loyal.
@@arched3954 still not as loyal as Tiberius tho
@@arched3954He pales in comparison to all the loyalties Tiberius had.
Always impressed with the level of detail you go into. Every time I watch your content, even if it’s about something I already know tons about, I finish the video having learned something new. Keep it up, dude!
It's nice seeing you here. Both of you make amazing content!
imagine getting a compliment from EVAN royalty
SCP Overlord. lol
Same. it is my degree in the UK. But I still somehow get something from it
A new Historia Civilis video? Guess its time to rewatch the entire Roman history series again.
You wait for a new video before rewatching?
same
dont tempt me
"You merely adopted the navy. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see a legion until I was a man!"
- Boat King Sextus Pompeius
This comment killed me
Sextus by name. Sextus by reputation.
@@FerrettSchlocK Having the sixth highest reputation isn't all that exciting.
@@FerrettSchlocK "Sextus by name, Sexy by reputation"
There's a Sextus/sextant joke here somewhere
Boat King Sextus Pompeius might be my favorite minor character in the series. Just, absolute video game boss energies, "I'm the boat-themed commander and you'll need to win against me in a boat battle to continue" 😆
I am very Happy when in total war Games fleets are deleted when the Last settlement of a faction is conquered.
For real though
Nah he can't compete with Bibilus, who was definitely Caesar's biggest enemy
@@techno_1007 who?
@@windwaker105 the guy who tried to stop Caesar crossing into Dalmatia from Salento
Agrippa is a bro indeed, eligible for a triumph but didn’t do it because his bro just lost.
Also impressive how he lost the first naval battle, then draws, then took small victories, and then won a huge one,
That’s anime character level of progression!
Someone needs to make an anime about him!
He introduced changes to the triremes, which enabled him to later dominate Pompey's ships. After capturing a large number of Illyrian ships, he studied them and introduced a new type of ship: the liburna, which enabled him to maneuver superiorly over Antony's ships at Actium.
Ever since the Greco-Persian Wars, the only innovation up to his time was the introduction of the corvus, over which the legionaries crossed and captured the Carthaginian ships, which were the same in everything else.
I mean imagine him celebrating a triumph in the middle of a blockade and famine... I feel like the starving people and just all of Rome might find it in poor taste to party while everyone is angry and starving
Marcus Agrippa: The most reliable/badass second-in-command to a Caesar since Titus Labienus.
Didnt Labienus betray Caesar tho?
@@gabrielethier2046 only after Caesar betrayed Rome, without consulting him
@@litkeys3497 i just mean he wasnt reliable to caesar when he betrayed him
@@gabrielethier2046 To be fair, his loyalty was to his state, to Rome instead of Caesar. By all means, he was a patriot trying to preserve the Republic.
@@gabrielethier2046 He defected to Pompey Magnus partly because A, Caesar didn't consult with him before crossing the Rubicon and B, because he considered taking up arms against the Republic to be morally repugnant, which would explain why he fought what I would call the long defeat. I wasn't talking about loyalties, I was talking about being reliable and badass second-in-commands like Labienus for Julius Caesar and Agrippa for Octavian Caesar.
Last time I was this early, the Senate was still a relevant Roman power.
congrats
The last time I saw such a useless comment, internet memes were not a thing yet
@@nicolascavadini3570 so basically around the same time as we have evidence our glorious god-emperor invented internet and memes.
Last time I was this late tribune aquila said it wasn't oaky :(
@@admontblanc you are great man! Now that you state it that way it seems so obvious to me! I mean who else could have achieve such a glorious feat but the son of the divine Julius?
just when I was worried Historia Civilias had left us! I never should have doubted
I'm once again becoming a little worried
@@pritzi101 his newest video just dropped on Patreon now. Anthony vs Parthia
We must be nearing Anthony's failure of a campaign too.
EDIT I legit made this comment like 4hs before the next one came out
@@Thelaretus yytttytttyttttd
@@Thelaretus honestly I’d love some more non-Roman history. For example I’d be interested in watching more videos on the English Civil War/English Republic
What the hell is this plot armor that Octavian has!?
@Lionheart Lucas *Caesar
@Lionheart Lucas I would add to that Antony's massive idiocy. Man was a dumbass. This was seen when he brought his soldiers in the pomerium, not to mention his disastrous Parthian campaign. Don't forget that completely left Rome in the hands of Octavian, who was free to manipulate to political web in his favour. That wasn't helped by the fact that Antony "turned native" and "married that Egyptian witch", or so the sources claim.
Ultimately though, the real reason Octavian was successful, was because he was tremendously lucky to have a man of Agrippa's caliber on his side. All victories can be attributed to Agrippa. If it wasn't for him, we would be speaking of "Consul Liberator Boat King" these days.
@Lionheart Lucas cicero and caesar had a son together? must be a miracle of the gods
@@superm530 you literally just watched a video about how he fucked up 3 times, and got his ass saved by his best friend. Some political genius.
@@karimm.elsayad9539 "If it wasn't for him, we would be speaking of "Consul Liberator Boat King" these days." To be honest, I feel like we've all missed out in this regard. He was the BOAT KING of ROME!
30:10
Octavian: Don't worry guys,
Octavian: I have a plan!
Octavian has left the game.
gold
Ah, the Great Octavian Master 🅱️lan™️.
Octavian: *Exists*
Also Octavian: I can stand so perfectly still that I become invisible to the naked eye.
So, in summary:
Octavian attacks, everyone dies.
Octavian attacks a second time, most of his men die.
For a third attack, Octavian sends out a huge suicide diversion, still half of his remaining men die. Then he just runs away.
But Lepidus is the one who isn't popular with his men?
Well, all the people who hated Octavius are dead now!
A little unorthodox way of stifling opposition, but you can't argue with the results!
Knowing their weakness, he sent wave after wave of his own men at them until they reached their kill limit and shut down.
no you see the genius of Octavian lies in delegating military power. HE didn't loose the battle, the two previous commanders did
@@trygveplaustrum4634 In the same way, he solved famine by sending many to their deaths.
Less mouths to feed. This Octavian dude was brilliant.
It's odd he called it a "suicide diversion", because it really wasn't
My canon is that octavian and agrippa where supposed to be one being, To continue the legacy of julius caesar but somehow they got divided.
julius caesar mitosis
"We don't trust Lepidus"
28:00 Lepidus comes through for them like a boss.
I know right, made me really like lepidus I mean I liked him before but this made me like him more
To be fair he really only did it to take Sicily for himself
@@andrewlynch4126 I’m probably wrong but it might be that he didn’t fully want it for himself but maybe something else maybe idk
@@andrewlynch4126 After having been shafted and taking it quietly, who could blame him?
Lepidus was such a good commander and politician usually keeping his head down to just get shafted by the younger idiots
Honestly, ole' Lepi's retirement wasn't so bad at all. Octavian had the shrewdness in taking care of his former enemies well while keeping a close eye on them.
The man basically spent the latter years of his life in a nice big house in sunny Florida with his family, got to live the full life. Quite well for that period.
Yeah, but no GLORY. Which was a big deal at that time.
@@mrsnulch many families were happy with being wealthy and not in politics.
@@mrsnulch yeah glory, there’s a lot of glory for people like Antony in winning multiple battles then impaling himself on a sword because his wife got her ass kicked under Actium, and ordered him to do so. Lepidus chilled as Pontifex Maximus so he still was an important part of Roman politics, and for a change could see his children and grandchildren grow up without them being slaughtered by his wife (as our Octavian did).
@@peterinasen4320 You’re right. People always talk about glory and honor or whatever but never actually would choose these if presented with the choice of giving up their family for them.
So Octavian causes a problem, then fixes his own problem and receives praise. He would have been great in IT.
*Agrippa fixes his problem
He would be great in Washington, at least he would have solved his own problems
As it seems Lepidus got the best deal in the end - although we do not know the exact personality of him - but he managed to survive, having another 23 years of relative peace, probably having a luxurious lifestyle without all the hustle of high politics ... I wish we could knew about such things - a personal diary, etc. ... it could give much insight into the mindset of such prominent historical figures, from them we could learn much even today!
Obviously Octavian would not have let Lepidus to speak or write on the matter
It wasn’t the best, he could have remained in power if he had not left Africa. Also his son was in a plot againt Octavian later on so he had to live to see his son executed
32:23 I can actually see good reason for this happening outside of him going "lol, bored now." Octavian's life depends on the outcome of this battle, however there's literally nothing he can do to influence it. So instead of stressing, panicking or jumping to conclusions the same way the more experienced Cassius did, Octavian sits down and waits for the news that will decide his fate. I won't speculate if he had a moment of introspection while this was happening, but I can believe that he did.
If wasan't for agrrippa, the callendar would be June, July, Antony...
A better world?
@@valentinaaugustina this is Antony we're talking about here
Also probably September would be Cleopatra
@@Riku-zv5dk well like... Octavian was definitely not good, so maybeee
@@valentinaaugustina let us not pretend Antony is any better, remember that whole incident when the mobs was rioting through the city and the senate asked him for help and he just marched away? Or that when he did come back to put it down it was incredibly bloody and violent?
After all of Caesar's pro gamer strats, it's so painful watching Octavian fumble this hard.
To be fair Octavian was only in his 20s at this point, Julius Caesar had decades to formulate his policies into what they were.
First of all, great taste with that snatcher pfp.
To be fair to the dude, he had no real option to do anything else. It was either this or more taxes. Caesar was a man who'd seen and done a lot of shit by the time he got into power. Octavian was more of a schemer and a politician at the start. When he got more time, he ruled really well.
Dont worry man, this is all training for him, in the next few episodes you'll see Octavian's genius shine bright
@@superm530 That is why you mentor your heir with your ruling character so you have a better chance of them turning out decent. But they could die before it is time for them to take the throne and you get stuck with the extra you never planned on having rule in the first place. Sometimes primogeniture can bite you in the ass if the first born son is rubbish though. And apparently everyone gets mad if you try to have the little shit poisoned for the good of the realm.
Ceasar was a fucking genius with decades of experience under his belt, was one of the best strategists EVER (arguably THE best), and came in at the perfect time to absolutely dominate Roman politics. Octavian was a kid in his 20's with no experience, a relatively poor general, and had to fight what was essentially a war on three fronts in the middle of the most turbulent era in Rome's entire history. Everything was chaos, yet amidst all of it he still came out a winner. He was more than deserving of the name Julius Gaius Caesar.
Octavian: *throws pokeball*
"Do your thing, Agrippa!"
*Walks off* "let me know when you win"
Wow, seems like the problem is that they kept giving Cesar and Octavian time to grow stronger instead of beating them while they where in a weaker position. Can't really blame them tho, because the romans went through so much shit in these last hundred years that any promise of peace was really tempting
I agree, those poor oligarchs of the senate
Yeah it's almost like they didn't have the loyalty of countless soldiers. Look what happened when they tried to move against Caesar. More conflict. Give the man what he wants and he'll live on content, corner him, and he'll struggle at every step to come out on top.
Look at the accidental standoff between Antony and Octavian, soldiers from both sides were willing to desert because they were so over the fighting
They were more tired of fighting their fellow Romans than anything
The legions were sent to Anthony just not in a way he appreciated and more than he asked for.
Haha good one
It was a good 18 centuries later but I really like how at one point there were two Kingdoms of Sicily and then they united and called it the kingdom of the Two Sicilies. Classic Sicilian move.
That were both just originally the kingdom of Sicily (norman)
Was the move by any chance Nc6.
Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
@@sukhmandersingh4306 This was golden, and I appreciate you
@@trisblackshaw1640 Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
The part where Octavian lay down on the beach and just stared at the sky is incredibly relatable.
I have a feeling Historia Civilis doesnt like this Octavian fellow
He's more of a Cicero fellow
Nothing wrong with that. Octavian sounds like a total b trying to take over the reigns of a capital A Alpha.
Well I mean he sounds like a bad person really. And not even good at war, just lucky and good at screwing over people who would be his allies if he didn't.
@@justinlutz5088 Yeah, and I hate the fact that we named a month with his name. We should rename august as sextilis.
He sounds like a real jerk
The noise whenever Agrippa was moving killed me almost as much as Octavian killed his reputation.
It's important to note the Octavian was pretty young here. He was 21 when the war began.
I feel bad for him tbh
When Alexander was 21 he was putting down revolts in greece
@@nothisispatrick4644 Well, Octavian did the same shit.
@@BatCostumeGuy Yeah and then he blew up his own liver or an officer stabbed him in he back, and his whole empire crumbled in a generation and is just an interesting foot note in history. Meanwhile our boy Augustus lived long and his empire lasted 350 years after him, longer if you count the Byzantines.
That's like saying Ghengis Khan was young when he razed his first city to the ground killing all inhabitants (this was a thing he did if they didn't immediately surrender when they saw a vague horse-like shape on the horizon).
(...And yes he was).
There's youthful stupidity, there's blatant military stupidity, and then there's being a sadistic power-hungry sociopath who massacres large numbers of people for fun. Youth doesn't make up for options 2 and 3.
...And didn't Octavian start that last war? Wasn't it a completely unnecessary war too? (he didn't want to feed his starving people with his own cash, I'm assuming).
Octavian (Augustus) always struck me as wise and beloved from my studies - bowled over learning how bad his early career formed - _zero to hero._
yea its amazing i always assumed that Octavian was this brilliant strategist beloved by the people but in real life the man was a borderline sociopath with some terrible ideas
@@lawsharland7278 You can't count some men out.
@@lawsharland7278 he gets better later on i promise
Remember he was only 19 when all this started. He had a lot of learning to do. And Mr Civilis is very biased in his assessment of the sources regarding Octavian - every piece of bad gossip told by writers many years after his death is regarded as truth, and every success is regarded as someone else's. The accusation of 'human sacrifice' after Perugia was made by Suetonius and Dio at least 100 years after he events and after the Julio-Claudian line of Emperors had been extinguished. The veracity of this has been debated for centuries. Human sacrifice was outlawed in Rome in 97 BC - lots of scholars think this was anti Julio-Claudian propaganda. Other ancient writers do not mention this event at all. I am not saying he was a Saint, but History is always much more nuanced. For a 19 yr old kid to become Emperor of the known world he must have been quite a bit more than a sickly, sick, deranged, sociopathic incompetent don't you think? Very entertaining vid though!
@@neilhogg4704 I'm starting to notice a lot of biases too. It has lowered my opinion of the channel.
_Literally is called _*_BOAT KING_*
Octavian: I'm going to out boat him.
Agrippa: Hold my wine.
I love how Tiberius' son's square is a little smaller 💜
cutest square i ever did see
'WHO is a cute little future Emperor? WHO is a cute little future Emperor!? Yeah, YOU are!'
As cute as it was, Tiberius ending up growing up to be one vicious little shit.
@@JustinCage56 cant really blame him, he was disliked by Augustus, forced to divorce his wife which he was happily married to, his beloved brother dying in his arms, and the whole Sejanus fiasco. If anything Im surprised he didn’t go insane by that point.
@@nothisispatrick4644 It's heavily implied he along with his mother and others within the Claudian dynasty suffered from some form of bipolar disorder. With Tiberius growing up with already heavy signs of depression, those elements you listed only made his condition worse. This may also explain Caligula's lunacy and/or Claudius speech impediment/ manic spells of wanting purge the senate.
I love the Jetsons sound effect when Agrippa moves around.
Is that a reference to something (other than Jetsons)?
@@LukaszPalkaPhoto I am also wondering about that.
@@LukaszPalkaPhoto I think it's meant to represent him flying to the rescue like Superman
Duuuude, I just love the way you do a more gripping and realistic narrative than most historical fiction series.
Remember the good old days when people couldn't bring legions and weapons into the city ?
It’s been a rough few years for the pomerium rule
I was following orders sorry
Only 60 B.C.E kids understand smh
pepperidge farm remembers
Good times.
Now we have grain shortages.
I should have moved to Narbo.
*An entire army evaporates in a day*
"Things in the East had grown incredibly strange."
oh lord now what
Cleopatra 2: Egyptian Boogaloo
Marcus Antonius wanted to add "Parthicus Maximus" to his list of titles.
Who’s expecting a Egyptian succetion crisis or something
That’s what I’m assuming is going to happen at least
@@sudo3870 yeah historcal context is un spoilable but I whould perfer to hear the history from historia himself
Historia Civilis posts -> Drop everything, get some snacks, watch. There's no other options.
Octavian: "We don't want a civil war"
Octavian: _Imidietly makes plans for a civil war_
The mans a genius i tell you
Hope for peace, plan for war
Like Hitler, Putin........
Classic politician shit
@drazenbicanic3590
Personally I think Octavian are pretty similar in character
"This was a human sacrifice, Octavian was a sick man . . ."
*ad break*
"I'VE LOST 17 POUNDS ON NOOM IN THE LAST THREE SECONDS"
😂 lmao I’m dying
you too?
LOL
Post Caesar squares seem much rowdier. Their movement quite lascivious, one might say
Post and pre caesar is now how we should do time
stupid sexy military squares
"Tiberius Claudius Nero, how many roman emperors do you want in your name?" "yes"
And in the correct order albeit lacking Caligula
They are all named that lol.
My guy had 3 emperor names all in himself
@@Leo-ip3yx Caligula was a nickname. His real name was Gaius Julius Caesar
He's an ancestor to all of them, so it does make sense. He's my wife's ex husband whom she had Tiberius with.
The best part of discovering your channel just recently is that I can binge all of your Caesar and Rome videos. The bad part is realizing you've just binged every video on the channel and now you're fiending for more.
It takes an octavian and an aggripa to make a full grown julius caesar. I like to think how both of them knew what skills have and lack on eachother. And aggripa didnt just renounce his triumph he knew what octavian was capable of and how promesing his future was by his side
Duh. It's the fucking Cesar. He is a VERY VERY rare case of a single person being both the finest political mind (his opponent was Cicero probably the finest speaker Rome ever had), the finest military mind (his military opponent was Pompey, man who Romans pretty much thought off as unbeatable in war) AND had a "healthy" dose of fucking plot armor for those cases where things just don't go your way. :D
Many a Western European politician and or solder has thought of himself as a new Cesar able to combine both military and civilian matters under one person, VERY VERY few succeded no matter how good of a stateman or solder they were.
Cesar was the finest political mind but he was killed by the guy he trusted, most of which he pardoned. Octavian on the other hand killed his enemies and thrived, changing Rome Forever in the process. Cesare was too full of himself and his auto representation as a god to win in the end.
@@stefanogandino9192 yeah Caesar’s one mistake was pardoning his enemies. If he proscribed the Pompeians he probably would’ve been the first emperor of Rome, but he refused to do it because he had empathy and understood how terrible proscription was as he was on Sulla’s proscription lists. Octavian was a sociopath and wasn’t alive when Sulla was dictator so he had zero qualms about murdering anybody who got in his way
Rome: hmm... our soldiers are retiring from their incredibly tough job. Let’s give them a relaxing life, doing another equally grueling profession that they don’t know anything about and that is incredibly important for the survival of our state.
Sounds like a tech guy buying farmland
Economics were not the strong suit of _any_ contemporary empire. Rome's economic failures are just better-documented than most.
Part of it was just a cultural thing; Romans thought that farmers were so good man, dont you wanna be like a farmer, it builds character. It's partially reflected in how in the early-mid Republic, army recruitment required one to own land, and pay for your equipment. Quasi-Mythical figures in the early-early Republic like Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus, twice elected to dictatorship, both times left that office peacefully after the crisis was gone. Dude was an old man who had to be figuratively dragged off his small farm each time and went right back to plowing and whatever afterwards.
Part of the reason stuff like that might've worked more in the early days I imagine is becuase the soldiers were farmers prior to service so there wasnt the realization of "oh god this sucks" when they got back the farm, and partly Rome was a city-state and they didnt need to have armies in the field all the time to deal with crises going on in Hispania or Egypt. Over time I imagine they made an association between farming, soldierly uh soldiers, and good conduct vis a vis CINCINNATUS, and came to the conclusion oh dang growing olives and shit is the way to do it.
Even as the number of landowners got smaller and used slaves to manage their estates, they still fetishised those old man workin hard on the farm values to some degree.
Farming isn't that hard. You basically have two months a year when you need to work 80+ hour weeks and then you'll rarely work 30 for the rest of the year. compared to constant drilling, marching, building forts, and the threat of being skewered on a gladius, farming would be a vacation.
@@Zwickerly2 well the problem with farming is, that you need much knowledge on how to plant and grow different kinds of plants. And that is the hard part in farming, some plants maybee easy to plant, but others are quite difficult and need much care, if you never farmed before problems will arise.
Romans in this time period: "Oh boy, another civil war. Is it Martis already?"
We joke, but unless I'm mistaken for a while in the middle ages there was a time of year in between planting and harvesting the food that was specifically used as a "season of war". To me this makes this joke twice as funny
Aw Shit! Here we go again!
Historia Civilis: "She could seemingly teach a Masterclass on Roman Politics"
Livia "Don't touch the Figs"
That extended "What?" negotation at the wooden platforms was hilarious.
Lol how
Did no one else notice it
I'm sorry, I just have to ask. Why is Agrippa floating around with the Jetsons sound effect?
if you got a problem to solve, agrippa's your man
AGRIPPAAAA!!!!!
I think there are only so many ways to introduce squares before you go, f**k it, this ancient square is riding a space ship.
That agrippa entry makes me thing History Civilis has seen the Unbiased History of Rome
Why was Agrippa not liked or really liked?
@@gpepeitan3373 you have to see it for yourself to decide.
Yes I’m not the only one here who has seen DovaHatty.
@@nedsteven4622 hive minds more like
I feel like you kind of glossed over how Agrippa was able to defeat Sextus in the battle of Naulochus. You really make it seem like they wasted all their time and money, but the reality is they won the battle because in the time they were digging the harbors and training the navy inland they improved on the naval weaponry inventing the "Harpax." This is how Agrippa was able to Defeat Sextus so suddenly when it seemed like they were helpless to Sextus for so long.
At first, it seems inexplicable that Octavian, the most junior and inexperienced triumvir, was the one to eventually become sole master of the Roman Empire, but it makes more sense the more you think about it. Octavian, in addition to being an extremely shrewd and deft politician, was fortunate to have both the material wealth and social prestige and reverence that came with being the son of Caesar, along with having the undying loyalty of the most capable general of his generation (Agrippa), the assistance of a pragmatic and capable advisor who curbed Octavian’s worst impulses and kept close eyes on what was happening in Rome (Maecenas), and a marriage to a personally magnetic women who could go toe-to-toe with any male politician when it came to intelligence and political acumen (Livia). Add on top of that the fact that Octavian was going up against an uninspiring and relatively passive man in Lepidus and essentially the ancient Roman equivalent of a drunken frat boy in Antony-who was pretty much slipping on banana peel after banana peel in the 12 or so years following Philippi-and it begins to make sense why Octavian was the one to come out on top.
This makes me think
Anthony truly didn’t had Caesar luck and Octavian clearly inherited that too
And Octavian was still going by "Gaius Julius Caesar", even while confiscating farms? Ouch...
I'm at a loss for words, no wonder the grand roman empire crumbled
At this point the empire didn't even exist and wouldn't fall for another 400-1500s years
@@blackfeathers2166 *The Republic
@@tycoughlin735 Yeah I mean, you know what he's saying. You could've just corrected him
@@blackfeathers2166 the man founded the empire, what are you even on about
I imagine Octavian's argument to the Senate went something like "Guys, we need to scrounge up a million years' worth of back pay. You wanna start seizing land or you wanna go out and explain to the legions that they aren't getting paid?"
Option 1: Tax the rich
Option 2: Seize land from the poor
The answer is obvious.
@@timothymclean I mean, _now_ it is, yes. But back then the idea of a strict social and fiscal hierarchy was so ingrained into society that even the people starving to death would've looked at you like you were a maniac if you chose option 1.
That's why the poor need to be armed
@Cameron Bingo. Hell, _today_ the obvious answer isn't to tax the rich-they just have more sophisticated methods for dumping the burden on the poor.
@@timothymclean Wrong. The obvious answer today isn't to dump the burden on the poor; the obvious answer is to dump the burden on the middle class. The poor tend to not pay anything and stay stuck there -or they die like in places with close to no social systems.
Interesting that Octavian is portrayed as this learned great emperor but you never really hear about his brutality in his early years.
There's strong evidence that many of the cruelties ascribed to him actually never happened and were invented to discredit the whole Julio-Claudian dynasty in the late first century AD. Historia Civilis unfortunately presents many things as facts despite them being hotly debated among historians without a clear consensus.
Agrippa!!!! Octavian's ability to harness Agrippa's ambition to his own cause was critical to his success as Augustus.
*sole reason behind his success* Octavians lowkey dumb without his friends by his side
@@2VeryIceyGaming Then again, one could argue that the ability to select the right men for the right jobs _is_ leadership.
Octavian: leaves
Caesars ghost: First of all, how dare you
"SHAMEFVR DISPRAY"
You're wrong. His ghost was content with the fact that I planted the seeds to keep things civilized 400+ years.
What happened when that Shah LARPING Alexander the Greekoid died?
@@augustuscaesar8287 while berating your dumbass at the same time
as for alex, passed on to his generals who then proceeded to oof things apart instantly instead of like anointing his dead little brother (whom historia civilis sussed was killed instead) as back up successor but i highly doubt shit works anyways.
as blue from overly sarcastic productions once said of the development of rome, a slow burn, expand little by little, taking lessons from alex's tendency to pay 2 rush build, but never taken by attila the hun to get that shit taught all the way to ching khan
@@augustuscaesar8287 🤮
I don't know why Agrippa has the Jetson's hovercar sound but I know it's historically accurate.
This series is incredible. Can't overstate how much I hope it keeps going. This is the best history channel on TH-cam.
"Do you find it risible, when I say the name...Sextus..."
...Dickus?!
What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in Gladiator school very quickly with a rotten behaviour like that.
He has a wife you know......
He has a wife, you know. Scribonia. Scribonia Butocks!
Anybody else feel like a little giggle when I mention my friend... Sextus
I hope we will eventually see a story about Sejanus or Sulla.
Or Marius, whose actions started this whole chain of events.
I really want a video or five on Sulla.
I think he'll probably continue after Octavian's coronation as emperor with the early empire, but I think he should focus on Marius and Sulla, too. That content is best suited to his channel and there's barely any content out there about it, while there's much about the empire.
@@skkahl3400 yeah, also why and how Pompey became Pompey Magnus
I would love to see a series on Sulla
> dividing Roman territory between east and west, with the dividing line in the modern Balkans
Hey, I've seen this one before!
The more things change...
@@phoenixinvictus9880 ...the more they stay the same.
or is it after? weird right
Where is this from ?
@@eligedzelman5127 I was referencing the later split of the Roman Empire between East and West
These videos are truly great. I especially appreciate how you show everything you're talking about on a map throughout the video. I grasp and understand the whole situation SO much better because of that.
Raising an army to march on Rome at the drop of a hat still doesn't gets old.
Amazing, how this aspect of Roman history is not often told. Didn’t realize that Octavius had so many close calls to consolidating power.
When historia civils finally comes back from Ancient Rome to tell us what he saw.
I love the way you tell these stories. I'm not just learning about history, I'm enjoying a riveting series and can't wait for the next episode haha
Alternative Title: Octavian Riding Other People's Coattails for 38 Minutes
"Ulysses in a frock" was in no way praise. Ulysses (Odysseus) was famous for his shrewdness and cunning, which the Romans found dishonest and dishonourable.
I still can't believe all of this actually happened.
Considering we're living in 'interesting times' ourselves, it's becoming all the more believable.
@@F22onblockland it’s like a tv show
“Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; truth isn't.”
@@leopruessner "god is not a second-rate novelist." - richard price
@@F22onblockland Hang on, we're living through "history" for the people in the 4000s
Octavian was one of history’s great figures, and you would think that he’s infallible in a sense.
But in reality, he made a lot of wrong decisions as well, and at no point was it certain that he would come out victorious. The part where he landed in Italy after abandoning his army in Sicily, and sitting in a cave, contemplating his feels of being defeated, that’s quite relatable in a way.
Imagine the series "Rome" had gone on for another 5 seasons. What a wealth of stories in these few years of roman history alone.
I would agree, but by the end season, the series already fast forwarded through all that was in this video... to the battle with Anthony and Cleo and their sucides.
So... most of the rest was actually boring... Octavian "retired" and Agrippa started building aqueducts and roads and some temples and stuff.... it would be like watch Octavian take it up the butt by firm strong men and women while telling other aristocratic women adultery is a sin against the state.
And it's building time with Agrippa.
I would like to have some moments with with the fictional characters though, doing crazy Roman things.
In my scenario the second season would not have needed to be that rushed. ;-) And yeah, some more time in Rome would have been nice.
@@ProjectPaladin it’s a shame. It was rushed because George RR Martin signed with HBO to do Game of Thrones so they had a decision to make: cut Rome and do GOT.
"The discussion on the water was hard to hear. "
Christopher Nolan: let me make a movie about this
whats the movie name
@@blgn3502 Tenet.
(There's a lot of important dialog in that movie that's super hard to hear. Watch it with subtitles on.)
@@blgn3502 i think Dunkirk would be appicable too
@@manupancras1198 Dunkirk wasn't deeply confusing tho, is the big difference.
Tiberius Cladius Nero's Allegiances: PARKOUR!
Truly a man of strong (weak) loyalty
It really takes commitment to be so strongly unrealiable
And he was always in the losing side XD. He was a disaster choosing his bets.
We’re about due for the next video, and I for one am super hyped! Thank you for all you do, and for feeding my passion for history and Rome
Pompey's son died in the exact same way his father did.
at least this time he wasn't a CONSUL OF ROME!
And yet he tried to prevent it!
Like father, like son.
For all of Lepidus' bad luck, I think it's worth noting how he's the *only* of Octavian/Augustus' rivals who got to die in comfort and of old age. It's the reason Machiavelli notes how Augustus was a "good" prince in the sense that he utterly destroyed all his rivals and real or perceived enemies early on, and then when he stopped the murder-spree, people assumed cruelty was just a passing thing and Augustus' sense of justice and order were truer to his character. I can't help but wonder if Caesar knew what Octavian was, and named him his heir as base vengeance in case he was murdered.
Lepidus was smart enough to give up his political ambitions without a fight and managed to retire in comfort. If only Pompey did the same...
He learned from Caesar's death that mercy might be a popular policy but not a reliable one, after the end of the Battle of Philippi the survivors of the losing side (that didn't feel in the mood to follow Cassius and Brutus' example) were quick to change sides but specifically to Antonious since Octavian had the reputation of being merciless due the bloodshed that already had happened in Italy. But by the time the conspiracy of Lepidus the Younger took place he already was so much in control of the institutions that there was no necessity for massacres even if the death of Lepidus could had been of some use since he had the office of Pontifex Maximus, but Augustus just humilliated him some more and nothing else since he probably had no part in the activities of him son.
Mm nah Lepidus was kind of a coward and a weakling. At the start of the 2nd triumvirate he saved Anthony’s ass in Gaul and commanded the most legions making him rightfully the senior member. While Octavian and Antony were campaigning in the east he should’ve been in Rome building up a steady power base and gathering allies amongst the senatorial class. The most foolish part of this whole thing though is he let Octavian who was in a god-awful absolutely horrendous position outplay and outsmart him at every turn. The end of the video just made Lepidus look even more like a bitch. It turned out this whole time he wasn’t just some honorable dude who didn’t care about politics or gaining power, nah he demanded Sicily and in return he lost the command of his troops as well as his all his lands.
@@g.sergiusfidenas6650
Octavian was a pious man (unless not being pious was the better strategy) and he respected Lepidus' title of chief priest.
Nero was literally playing life like a Mount and Blade Game.
It's time to siege the castles!
*I WILL DRINK FROM YOUR SKULL!*
I've been playing a lot of Mount and Blade lately and this thought came to my mind as well