The Evidence For Why Viral Persistence Might be Causing Long Covid | With Dr Amy Proal
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2024
- The idea of viral persistence has been a hot topic since early in the Long Covid story. But as time has gone on, more and more evidence has been mounting up. In this film I talk to microbiologist and published Long Covid researcher Dr Amy Proal about the mechanisms by which viral persistence might work, what evidence we have for it, why RNA viruses can persist driving other chronic conditions, and why it's the number 1 suspect in the Long Covid police line up.
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The Long Covid Handbook (Oct 2022), by Gez Medinger and Professor Danny Altmann and published by Penguin Books is now available in paperback, ebook and audiobook. A singular resource that brings together everything patients, clinicians and academics have learnt about the condition since early 2020, as well as lessons from sufferers and researchers of ME/CFS and other chronic conditions. It offers world leading expert advice on understanding, managing and treating Long Covid. The Long Covid Handbook is available from the following links:
US: a.co/d/0gvkJCU
UK: amzn.eu/d/9KjurGb
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CONTENTS:
0:00 Introduction
1:00 Possible causes of LC
5:30 Research on microbiome role
9:35 Where would the virus hide?
13:15 Persistence in the lungs
17:25 Why doesn't immune response kill it?
20:20 Impact of vaccination
22:10 How to treat it?
23:43 What research is happening on viral persistence?
26:56 Overview of the causes
28:40 Viral debris must be recent
29:35 Simplest explanation is viral persistence
34:59 Conclusions - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Just wanna say to everyone stay strong we will be better one day, there’s a lot of research going on and also there’s a lot of profit in potential treatments, we will find answers. Do not give up, you are not alone although it really can feel that way. We will all have an outlook on life we might never have had before being forced into such a bad situation. We will get through this. Also thank you to Gez for your content it really gives us a lot of hope for the future and makes us feel like we are not alone.
Excellent. Please have a follow up with Dr Amy Proal. This is Amazing information.
The corporations that made trillions during COVID need to step up and support this Research.
thank you. this is the science behind my last 2 years. your advocacy and platform are truly appreciated. it always helps me feel a little less crazy and a lot more informed
this isnot science ,all post viral conditions have the same root cause and are easily healed
@@Beekind799 your mansplaining is adorably naive. Grow up and keep your bs to yourself, pumpkin
Have you tried FLCCC?
@@ms-jl6dl 🤣🤣🤣 horse dewormer 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 hows that Q taste?
For those suffering long covid issues, look into Wim Hof Method (cold showers/baths & breathing techniques). Not for all, but I'm telling you, it has absolutely had a tremendously positive affect on the symptoms I was experiencing - primarily extreme fatigue, brain fog, periodic nervous issues. I'm typically a very physically active male (60-year old), and had issues just doing one basic set of push-ups. That was the case as recent as 9 weeks ago. I've been taking cold showers daily since then (as well as one round of the controlled breathing to get my day started-3 sets of 30 breaths & holds), and have progressively returned to "normal". 30-minute/4 days per week hard core weight workouts are no longer an issue, though I don't pack as much in as I used to, and I'm not up to my normal 45-minute strength training regimen. Still, a far cry from not being able to do more than 1 set of basic pushups. I noticed MASSIVE improvements, especially during the first 3-4 weeks. Ease into the cold showers if it's tough for you start. Take your 'normal' shower and end it with cold for say 30 seconds. Gradually increase the time under cold water each day until you're taking full-on cold showers. My wife (also a long covid sufferer, though not as bad as mine), calls it the fountain of youth. Research has shown that the cold effect on the body has tremendous positive effects on one's circulatory and immune systems, while the breathing has more positive effects pertaining to the nervous system. Wondering if this isn't somehow the reason for all of my personal improvement? Anyway, look into this stuff (Wim Hof/Wim Hof Method) if you're frustrated and looking for potential aid in your long covid symptoms. It's certainly helped with mine! And Gez, thanks so much for this channel! Like another commented below, you deserve an award for all the time you've devoted to researching this topic!
I had similar positive experiences with Wim Hoff. I've fallen out of doing it lately but the breathing and cold showers got me through the bad first 6 months of trying to breathe.
Certainly a cheap and very accessible therapy. Just got covid. Was flowline positive for 10 days. On day 13 and still have some symptoms. Might be giving this a try. Thank you!
I have been doing that 5 months and works perfect and helped with majority of my symptoms! I’m 15 months in and only had fatigue and tired ness and that would help! But then had a relapse and caused to have a irregular heart beat or sinus arrhythmia the cardiologist doctor told me.. so not sure if it was from that!?
@@bigbuu4334 Were you vaccinated? Seems to be a growing number of vaccinated having heart-related issues, especially those that are athletic. I was not vaxed, mainly because I had already had covid and saw no reason to.
I've joined a gym and start with heated pool stretches, yoga in the pool and a couple of lengths and then get into the sauna and follow with a cold shower. If I have the time I get on the rowing machine, do arm exercises, legs on the bicycle, a short run on the treadmill and then head of the yoga studio to do my own floor yoga stretches. The cold/hot thing is a good idea, activity - even if light activity is a good idea. I will progress to using light weights when I have more strength.
Adding to the idea of gut persistence: I learned just recently in Phillipp Detmer's new book "Immune" that the immune system of the gut is quite different than the immune system of the rest of the body. Prime example is that the gut immune system does not trigger the inflammation response like the body immune system does because the gut immune system is constantly attacking things in the gut. If it were triggering inflam at every time it attacked something, then our guts would be constantly inflamed.
You might want to check out “SARS-CoV-2 Tissue Reservoirs Part 1 - Intestinal Goblet Cell”
@@minRef are your referencing an article? I pasted that into google and didn't come up with anything.
Also asking
This is what is happening with me. Before covid had a bout of ibs for a week or so thst put me out of action. Since covid its always inflamed everytime i eat something that flares it up. Its awful
I find the vagus nerve discussion so interesting, because my very first symptom was dizziness that is so unnatural for me.
mine too! I felt like poisoned by a nerve-agent rather than having the flu.
Me too. When I was really going downhill I had a strong feeling of pressure at the base of my skull. I’d never experienced that before.
I remember the day it went into my nervous system, I told my family I felt like I'd been poisoned and I lost a lot of feeling in my lower legs for 20-30 scary minutes, after that I went downhill fast.
I've been saying it's like a neurotoxin for a long time now.
Just found out my vagus nerve has degenerated/ thinned :-(
@@SerenaLorien How did you discover your vagus nerve has degenerated & what are the implications of this - like will it regenerate?
@@patriciabryant8892 I went to a place that specializes in Cranial Curve Instability, so they know about how the Vagus nerve affects the whole body. Caring Medical in Fort Meyers, Florida.
They do a lot of different testing with ultrasounds, head and neck cone beam CT and a DMX motion x-ray. They measure the temperature of your ears (different parts indicate vagus nerve injury), look at the pupils which also indicate certain things to do with cranial pressure etc.
I felt my nerve burning for almost a full year, so I was hoping it wasn't nerve damage, but I suspected it was.
There's no cure to regenerate the nerve as such, traditional medical thoughts are is doesn't regenerate, but I've read and spoken to people who have vagus nerve injuries who improved, sometimes it took years. Stem cells seem to be something to look into to help regenerate things as much as possible.
18:01 - mention of findings from “ACE2-independent infection of T lymphocytes by SARS-CoV-2”.
18:35 - multiple redundant proteins to that degrade host interferon pathways. Lots of papers about this but very little public discussion.
20:45 - super important point about the reality of anatomical sanctuaries.
27:10 - the unlikelihood of “it’s just debris” given how ubiquitous RNAses are.
A lot of points that aren’t mentioned often.
I remember dr Patterson's group to find RNA fragments only, and they were quite happy to conclude that these were just fragments and not from persistent virus. Does anyone know why?
@@robke136 I think because it’s no longer transmissible. Also because he’s not finding whole virus in the blood. But that just might mean the reservoirs of virus have not yet been found
@@leannatimmerman9922 Reservoirs HAVE been found. Look for video "Abridged Overview - SARS-CoV-2 Tissue Reservoirs"
Thank you again Gez and thank you to Dr. Amy.Brilliant video!
I am one of the long haulers here. It's a frustrating situation. Very informative video, very educational, and very clear information. Thanks👍
Insanely good information! The stuff about the vagus nerve has connected so many dots for my symptoms especially. Fascinating!!
It is isn’t it Ross?
What are your symptoms? I too suspect problems with vagus nerve since covid
@@bananaq8i Breathing issues, pressure in my neck, chest aches, digestive problems, headaches, heart palpitations and numbness in limbs. The list goes on, but those are the primary ones.
Amazing stuff Gez. Thanks again for all you do!
Thank you Edward!
Thank you Amy and Gez. Amy is one of my greatest hopes
Going to listen to this again. Your guests are so interesting and it's exciting to learn how everything may tie together. Thanks Gez!
Thanks Erika!
Dr Proal, you are so wonderful - words can’t express my gratitude for all you do for us… so informative… Gez, absolutely fascinating indeed… again, thank-you…
Cheers Chris!
Literally in tears. I’m no longer alone. I’m not crazy. 😭💙🙏
Brilliant, I appreciate the way Amy looks at how the various pieces in the puzzle might fit together - all sounds very plausible.
Thank you so much for this!!! I came across your channel just before I caught covid and was sharing your video about how to avoid long covid to everyone I knew as we are currently in a surge where I live.
I have autoimmune arthritis and fibromyalgia - there is some new research from last year that suggests fibromyalgia is indeed an autoimmune disease, which makes a whole lot of sense, but also it has been known for a long time that autoimmune disease is highly correlated / linked with history of bacterial or viral infections. I had frequent, recurring throat infections as a teenager and then went on to develop autoimmune arthritis around age 24, and was diagnosed just last year also with fibromyalgia too although I probably have had it for a year or two before that. I recently recovered from a mild infection of covid, and have a number things in my mind, especially after watching this video!
1: a couple of the common forms of long covid is fatigue and joint/muscle pain… how will I be able to tell the difference between fibromyalgia and those long covid symptoms ??
2: after I got better…. My throat has began to get sore again even though I’m testing negative. Is this re-activation of the infection I used to get as a teen I will feel very 😵💫 but as a teen I never saw a doctor for it even though it lasted years, I never learnt exactly what was causing it! now I’m an adult and have a good and frequent relationship with my doctor so maybe can get on top of it….
3: this video made me wonder if potentially some autoimmune diseases and conditions like fibromyalgia and MECFS, MCAS might be able to be treated and even cured through anti virals in the future if they are caused by viruses hiding sneakily in the body and continuing to set us off…. A future where I no longer need a handful of meds every day and doses of immune suppressants to stay well is very exciting one I hope to live long enough to see.
As for those struggling with long covid fatigue and neuropathic pain - I have my fingers crossed that treatments, even if they are only symptom masking ones rather than actually treating the cause of the disease, become studied and available to you soon. I have found amitriptyline life changing for my fibromyalgia and do wonder if it might be something that could help long haulers until better science and medicines become available. Stay strong spoonies 🥄 hopefully some huge research that will change many of our lives is on the horizon!
I don't suffer from any of the various chronic fatigue syndromes, but I am here because I see it as a huge problem that is suddenly getting more widespread in the form of Long Covid. Gez does a fabulous job of bringing the best knowledge in the medical field together with a large cohort of ME/CFS sufferers. There is now a level of focus on this syndrome that never existed before. Courage, Cyber!
Great interview. Thank you!
After being hit with POTS 5y ago, I have read every study which may touch Dysautonomia and the research Dr. Amy is doing is almost a black hole even though it's shows such promising results!
A+ (again). Both fascinating and frightening at the same time. When will we finally crack this, I wonder.
Thank for your continued work and research - excellent podcast 👏👏👏👏👏
Another fantastic film. Certainly another piece of the puzzle. Thanks Gez
Thanks Sami!
I want to be back to normal. Simple.
I have been researching this subject for 4+ years; regarding ME/CFS. I found small fiber poly neuropathy to be a core symptom, caused by micro clotting. This creates Dysautonomia.
Hyperbaric oxygen treatments early would do much to prevent long term suffering and damage.
Thank you for bringing in the experts that you do!!!
Many thanks for the information. I am 9 weeks in and want to do HBOT in about 6 weeks. I hope it helps me a lot
Amazing insight! But how about the role of viral persistency and autoimmunity? I also believe they may play a fundamental part in both LC and ME/CFS. What do you think?
Yes, I have also been on anti virals ( black seed oil) and mitochondrial support ( cellular oxygenation) for more than a year. I had 3 viruses I was fighting. I also boosted vitamin D to 40,000 IU for autoimmune. Is all working. I am recovering.
Still having challenges with POTS but mostly because I can't get oxygen Rx. This should be basic Tx for recovering.
Hyperbaric therapy would also be fantastic.
Infra Red helps heal the nerves. 👍🏻
Great to hear Denise! I am extremely glad you are finding your way out of the nightmare. I am 6 months in and I also wanted to try HBOT or Ozone for blood circulation and tissue oxygenation. In my case, I am a little worried about autoimmunity as my case is vaccine induced, and right now no drugs exists to deactivate those AABs, but I hope some treatments may help! What are your thoughts on pacing and rest? I think those are the pillar of my recovery at the moment.
Thank you for presenting her point of view!
Amazing interview really!congrats Gez
Extraordinarily sophisticated activities happening all the time at the cellular level throughout the human body! Fantastic discussion and love the excitement of the guest Dr. Amy ____.
I would definitely put myself forward for any test ..I know my cycle and I can't believe how you and this person can understand it.....keep it up Gez
Thanks so much for this, Gez & Amy. Very much looking forward to more progress on the antiviral front.
Thank you so much for this site.
This channel is Amazing. I had subscribed and had notifications on but never see ur videos. I saw someone recommended your channel at Dr. MoBeen's chat so came over.
Thanks Jenny!
Thanks again Gez for another great discussion, and big thanks to Dr Proal for taking the time to do the interview and share her research. Maybe a future survey question to see the percentage for effectiveness of Paxlovid treatment and LC? I’m sure a Gez survey will be faster than waiting for the results of a clinical trial.
That is very true! At the point in time I’ve got enough people out there who’ve tried it I’ll get on the case!
@@RUNDMC1 Great to know. I was just wondering if anyone is trying this. I'm going to discuss with my doctor.
Wow this was interesting. Thank you!
The vagus nerve connection/effect talked about is mind blowing. Explains soooo many awful symptoms and reactions.
What are your symptoms?
@@bananaq8i Panic attacks, fatigue, heart palpitations, rapid heart beat episodes, elevated bp, some POTS, exercise intolerance, tinnitus, insomnia, food intolerances, reflux.
@@kristabel71sounds like mine. How long have you had the symptoms?
@@Dawgz15 They started in February 2020, before there was any covid testing, etc. Everything got worse after the three thingies in the arm. I got a mild case of covid in July 2022 and after that some of the symtoms started to reduce. Panic attacks are fewer, POTS isn't as bad now, reflux is a little better. Still have exercise intolerance, fatigue, tinnitus, elevated BP.
@@kristabel71 I hear ya. Have you done anything about the elevated BP?
Totally amazing video.
Extremely interesting. Thank you for your, once again, excellent work on collating this potentially difficult topic and communicating it so eloquently.
Some time ago watched a lecture by a pulmonary consultant, detailing the lung microbiome, and thought that covid probably messed with that...here we are told it does! . Fascinating that so many tissues can harbour microbiome that are destabilised by infections, affecting functioning of body organs. This has to be a major research priority. Perhaps the LC community can help raise funding?
There will be more from me on this front in due course!
We could do a crowdfunding, because we are so many...
@@Anamaria-ew8lh lndeed! Anna Maria, l am just recovering from covid after 10 days of testing positive and am monitoring symptoms, doing all l have learned from Gez's videos and elsewhere to avoid long covid. The incredibly sad and frustrating accounts by so many here are heart-wrenching..
Thank you! Another marvellous You Tube - possibly the most illuminating yet. Do do a follow up session if possible.
Thanks Judith!
This video answered so many questions I had about my symptoms of long covid. Thanks.
Thank goodness your out there Gez with your contributing speakers keeping us up to date with current research and thoughts around this illness.
Do you have a contact within the NHS that can tell us where they are on this issue? What are patients being told at Long covid clinics would be interesting to know.
Thankyou again for what you do.
The NHS aren’t anywhere on this issue
@@RUNDMC1
Thanks for replying Gez.
I am not surprised that the NHS are nowhere on this matter, its a shameful reflection on them and how seriously they are viewing this matter. As I say thank goodness for your superb channel.
@@mrrat216 I think a lot of people in the NHS really want to help but they’re hamstrung by the system and what they’re actually able to do.
@@RUNDMC1
Fair comment Gez and I appreciate this situation is very difficult for the NHS and maybe I was being too hard on them.
Just looking for hope that wheels are turning, even if incredibly slowly.
Great discussion! Thank you!
Thanks Bill!
I'm so happy this is coming to light. I've suffered from reactivation of Epstein Barr virus. I was diagnosed when I was 18. 10 years later I suffer from autoimmune diseases like RA, Lupus, Scleraderma and Sjögrens syndrome along with fibromyalgia and other issues. I'm active and healthy but all these studies will help all of us!
Edit; I also get shingles too often. I'm still young and this sucks. I also developed asthma during this time. I was a ballet dancer and fitness instructor.
Fixing leaky gut might help as I've read they are the root of autoimmune diseases
@@rupinderh01 I am gonna try to do this! Thank you for advice!
I agree 100%! It is possible these very similar post-infection disorders are from different processes but I would be very surprised. Research into Long Covid is almost certainly going to move other post-infection sufferers (and even those with similar symptoms who can't identify an infection) forward.
Imagine the possibilities: once reactivation for any particular disease is identified there will surely be adaptation of techniques to treat the underlying infection. As my 70th birthday approaches I will have to put this into my "probably a wonder for my children to see" box, but I am reasonably confident my children will see it.
Look up Dr Mobeen's ( you tube) lecture on black seed oil and honey. It has worked for me and our history sounds similar. 💓
@@denisebanto3185 in what way did it help ? Which symptoms ? Are they completely resolved? Did you return to a fully normal active life.
Great discussion. Thank you. I’m a 33y/o male who’s been experiencing terrible long Covid symptoms for 10 months now. It’s miserable, debilitating and scary. I’m trying to learn and do everything possible to make myself better but haven’t had any success yet
Right there with you Vlad! Same age and 10 months in.
So sorry to hear this Vlad. Wishing you a speedy recovery.
look into antihistamines, low histamine diet, high quality probiotic, B3 vitamin, etc. I'm on 18 supplements & I'm back working full time but not recovered
@@MJR1117 I'm doing the same. Slow improvements, but improvements nonetheless! Glad to hear you've been able to work again.
@@allTheRobs same here. I’m 23 and it’s so gnarly almost 2 years for me treatment will come soon hopefully
well, there's people that cannot wait for research to fight this
As always, thank you Gez for the being the conduit for this critical information. The slow and/or absent funding that Dr Amy mentions is pretty disheartening, but your efforts could help change that.
Watch this space :)
This was so fascinating and explains a lot about long lasting symtoms people are plagued with! I have always believed Viral Persistance played a part, maybe not Retro Viral binding to DNA but clusters that remain in the body in hard to reach places, hidden from the immune systems attack... I consider myself recovered from long covid, yet i still have stomach issue's for instance bloating after eating - this did not happen prior to covid! Great information as always, thank's Gez ;)
Thanks Andy!
Thank you so much for digging deep, we do need help.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been saying viral persistence for many months now. Almost 20 months in, and with each vaccine I'm sent backwards for a few months. But trying to find help, or at the very least not being gaslighted, is almost beyond existence. Survival becomes just that then, survival.
Thanks Dianne - best of luck in your recovery :)
Sorry that people generally suck Dianne. The gaslighting I believe is done on purpose. They all say too similar things as each other in all the medical facilities.
@@juliad988 Agree. And my doctor's have not been cooperative in ordering tests I request which are covered by my insurance yet no cooperation. I am very disappointed. Seems to me they have instructions to deny care to us.
@@wildhorses6817 1000% you get it! You wouldn’t believe the things I have experienced. Well maybe you would because of the stuff you have gone through.
I’m sorry to tell you but if I am right it also involves the people around you who are supposed to care for you.
It’s too much of a coincidence.
They are not very good at covering up what they are doing they just have like robotic pre scripted responses that are all the same.
I know this wasn't what you were going for, but I actually found this format - more podcast like - easier and less stimulating to consume! 👍
I guess the answer is don’t look at the screen on the other ones!
Super interesting Gez, thank you very much. Managed an hour of surfing in easy conditions last week end - no relapse whatsoever. Feels like i keep on improving. A year and 9 months into it. Fascinating discussion which makes me re-think Patterson’s claim that it’s all caused by the macrophages hijacked by the spike and that they are kept alive for months. There must be more to it. I’d love to hear more also about how EBV has a lasting impact on immune system’s efficacy, liver’s ability to clear toxins, etc, and how it can ‘set you up’ for long covid. I also had CMV apparently! Finally - just to say that a couple of things brought about very clear and almost immediate improvements in my healing journey: IV ozone therapy, and Kambo (frog medicine), which i’ve only done once so far.
Very interesting - thanks for the update!
What is IV ozone therapy? My naturopath suggested some therapy where they take my blood via IV, infuse it with something (I forget what, maybe it was ozone?) and then put it back in me via IV. This was over a year ago, and this procedure just freaked me out and I didn’t do it.
@@karenhensley3069 hi Karen - that is what it is. IV 10 pass ozone therapy. The blood is mixed with oxygen and a small percentage of pure ozone and it ‘super oxygenates’ red blood cells, which in turn oxygenates tissues better. It also activates immune system detoxing pathways, does wonder for tissue repair, and supposedly kills viruses, bacteria and mould that are anaerobic and don’t survive in highly oxygenated environment. Post lyme’s patients can recover with it, although a number of sessions is needed and depending on where you are in the world it’s not cheap. the first time i did it i wasn’t super chilled about it: quite something to see your blood leaving you and returning. The size of your veins plays a part in how well the procedure goes. The bigger the better. I’ve done it about 10 times by now. Each time i get benefits that last and build upon the previous ones. However the first time i did it was like a quantum shift. I had strong neuro cognitive symptoms (observed via brain pet scan and QEEG), and it pretty much put an end to them in one day. It’s as if my brain was a shriveled ballon and it re-inflated it just like that.
Hope that helps.
@@mrjean765 Wow, that was a good explanation. Not sure I want to do it though! 😳🤭 I’m glad it has helped you! I’m gonna think on it.
Thanks Gez, very interesting. My acupuncturist has been working on my vagus nerve since July 2020 but these other issues help explain why I've not recovered after 2 years. Interesting on the clotting, viral persistence etc too. Thanks again
This makes sense to me. I had lung problems last year, they went away with vitamins, then I had the booster and suddenly I had really awful gut issues, once I seemed to get rid of the stomach pain I developed dysautonomia symptoms. Now I'm slowly trying to calm my nervous system and my lung issues have reappeared! I'm on the vitamin stack now and starting Ivermectin, but craniosacral therapy has been one of the things that really has made a big difference for me, especially reducing anxiety and the general feeling of malaise.
❤🙏 thank you so much. I've been dealing with long covid for over two years now. I hope we can get a cure soon.
@ Gez Medinger, Thank you Gez, for arranging such an informative interview with Dr. Proal! I wonder if Paxlovid will be more appropriate over the protocol by Dr. Patterson of using statin and Maraviroc. I wish that we get to learn more on this issue and that will bring in more hopes for all those who are going through difficult times.
Thank you for the great information. This theory has always made the most sense to me. I was having major GI issues and I decided to get monoclonal antibodies 3 months after my infection and my GI symptoms went away. I ended up doing 3 infusions and that resolved most of my symptoms. I believe mabs can also help with the viral persistence. It’s just about getting the right mabs and dosage. Hopefully trials will be done along with anti virals.
Where did you get them?
@@mariayo4284 I went to a doctor for my first set. Then I used a concierge service for the second two.
What do you mean by Gl? Getting anti-bodies is a great idea.
@@mariayo4284 a lot of abdominal issues - nausea- cramping especially after eating- bad stomach pains- some reflux.
Interesting! I got Reflux in spring 2020 after a bad "cold". After Covid in November 21, Reflux is finally gone.
Type A with past trauma (and female). Can't wait, Gez!
I sometimes describe myself as "the best-recovered PTSD patient I know." My first therapist was terrific at helping me understand and come to terms with the underlying trauma, but the second therapist - had to find one after a reaction at work - mostly set me free. The technique is simple enough: for half an hour before bedtime do something relaxing. Yoga, meditation, watching silly movies, reading enjoyable books (Kafka is an example of a Bad Choice).... Within a month or so the 24/7 sensation in my face that I was about to cry faded away, and a week vacation with my wife in the second month really settled it down.
This is super interesting, especially with the research on Pax Lovid.
Thank you Gezza!!!
Thanks Cass!
I've had persistent symptoms since what I believe was a mild covid infection in mid-March 2020. But the symptoms have gotten better of the past year but still dealing with inflamed asthma. About 3 1/2 weeks ago I got infected (again) with what was surely Omicron. It was a "mild" case and when I talked to the doctor, they talked me out of using an anti-viral since I was having mild symptoms and was double-vaxed with a booster. Man, I wish I'd seen this video beforehand! Anyway, 8 days into it I was feeling on the mend so I decided to test myself to make sure I had a negative test before I went out. I was far from negative. The line on this test was bolder than the control. It wouldn't be for another 4 days until I finally got a negative lateral-flow test result. So, in essence it took me 12 days to clear the virus even with a double-vaccination and booster on board. I can only imagine that if long covid manifests itself with me again, it's viral persistence. Hopefully anti-virals will do the trick for people suffering from it.
Looking forward to your discussions re prior trauma. Starting suffering Long Covid whilst recovering from surgery for a broken arm which ocurred 4 weeks prior. 🤔
How you going man? Have you had any previous concussions by chance? I’m recovering from a concussion and long covid and it’s so tough.
@@TheBushRanger. Hi Ryan. No concussion. Now 6 months in and slowly improving. Had some rehabilitation classes which have helped. It is a long road. Stay strong. I hope you are managing day to day and have good support. 😌
I remember the day it went into my nervous system, I told my family I felt like I'd been poisoned and I lost a lot of feeling in my lower legs for 20-30 scary minutes, after that I went downhill fast.
I have been saying I think it infected the vagus nerves directly from the brain stem also for a while after being tested inside and out and no tests explaining how difficult my breathing is or the yank I have on my throat from my ribcage feeling like it's been pulled around. I also got extremely sharp electric shocks into my heart area which I realized was the Vagus nerve.
After recent testing at a place that specializes in CCI and the Vagus nerve connection I found out my left Vagus nerve has degenerated/ thinned :-(
I was in the doctors 3 days into this thing begging for help to stop this inflammation before it began, a couple months later I could barely sit up in bed/ walk because I was so weak from not being able to breathe properly yet my oximeter remained normal and mmi didn't have the typical GGO's they looked for in Covid pneumonia, so despite not being able to lift a plate, brush my hair, get in and out of a tub by myself etc I was told I was "stressed" and just needed a "trip to the beach".
I understand they didn't understand it, but it's no short of medical malpractice what happened to those of us who got this early 2020.
Also the US gave 1.15 billion to study Long Covid and none of us have heard of much about where that money is going, it's ridiculous that groups like this can't find their studies with all that money going towards things like surveys and trials for antihistamines and herbs we've all already tried/ been on for a year 1/2.
Of course a trip to the beach won't straighten it all out and at your stage breathing is probably over-exertion, but (if you haven't already) check out Gez's video "The Great Experiment: Can Activity Play a Role in Long Covid Recovery?" at th-cam.com/video/UCJhYAQ6aGk/w-d-xo.html
Recreation, to what ever extent is practical, is part of recovery.
That’s crazy I FELT this virus move around my body! Idk if that’s what you’re saying by you remember when it went into your nervous system but I felt this thing go into my brain into my eye move through my veins and also what they call brain fog I think is the virus moving around in your brain and coming down the brain stem or something. It’s disgusting it’s like a bug.
Oh yeah and btw it didn’t just happen to you guys in 2020 they are still playing dumb about it now even after 2 years. Well most are. They want people to not receive proper treatment and die I think they also really enjoy gaslighting desperate people who are suffering. There are no other explanations left. I can’t believe how much I underestimated humans capacity for evil because I just don’t have it in me.
Oh yeah and one more thing, it’s time for some lawsuits. Thank God you are still alive after two years and if you have any energy put it towards getting these psycho freaks out of a profession they are supposed to care for others in. They don’t belong there. Please you or somebody else reading this if anybody has the energy put your story out there and get this going. Doctors are supposed to be in it to heal. There are natural healers who just don’t have the money to set up practices like doctors. They do it for the right reasons.
I myself have been suffering since having covid still having shortness of breath and palpations pains in my back and chest,i was really struggling with my breathing heart rate high oxygen up and down,seen by gp had heart monitor put on had high heart rate,lungs clear.I then asked for the nurse to test my urine it came back with leukocytes only present ,so i said can an infection any where in the body cause the leukocytes to be present, nurse said yes,i then said what about covid ,she said no I had no symptoms at all in regards to a UTI.I don't understand, nurse was so quick to say no when i mentioned covid
Fascinating video. Thanks! I’ve recently caught Omnicron and was lucky enough to get Molnupirivar as part of the Panoramic UK trial. Finished my last dose yesterday so too early to tell Re impact on my LC symptoms but it definitely helped my recovery with Omnicron and really hoping it may have cleared some persistent virus from earlier infections. 🤞🏻🤞🏻
Good luck Georgie!
How much money is "pilot funding"? Is there a range? Can we in the LC community raise this?
You’ll be hearing more from me on this front 😉
Six months now into my long covid journey...my current doctor has me on a cocktail of i-v-m, NAC, anti-acid, anti-histamine, high-dose fish oil...been on this regimen for 10 days now and despite recent high stress levels with work and life in general, my symptoms seem to be lessening in frequency and severity. Time will tell...fingers crossed.
Thanks to Gez's films, I knew about the theory of viral persistence and considered getting the jab in hopes of the vax "cleaning up" any leftover viral parts. However, with my new doctor willing to prescribe i-v-m, I'm hoping to get the same outcome.
How are you now
Sorry if I'm commenting in the wrong place...but it's a bad place having CFS...the ..."tear away" from the back of the brain .. explains why I get a lot of pain here.... it's amazing what your doing...even what I thought was irreverent of simptoms connects with me
Makes a lot of sense.
AMAZING! Can we read the paper to send to my doctor?
Which paper are you after?
I'd put myself forward for the lungoscapy..,and anything more...if it helps. I can't even explain how much all of you have explained my simptoms....I thought it was just a few.....but Gez...has explained a lot...I really thought I was on my own...
Amazing info! Dr.Proal, it might not be the regular way to get funding for a lab, but since so many people are waiting for answers: starting a crowdfunding campaign could be a very successful move.
It’s definitely an option that’s being considetef
It’s definitely an option that’s being considered
@@RUNDMC1 glad to hear that
What an exciting possibility that anti-virals could possibly clear up the remaining virus! That would solve so much.
Still very much unconfirmed but it’s a lovely idea!
I agree - the risk of making the syndrome worse would be very small, and at this point it looks like the chances of significant improvement look good.
I found Nirmatrelvir (sold as Paxlovid) as a molecular weight treatment on my Rife machine and will be running these frequencies. Worth a try. I wonder if Paxlovid has any side effects?
Paxlovid side effects
Possible side effects of Paxlovid are:
Liver Problems. Tell your healthcare provider right away if you have any of these signs and symptoms of liver problems: loss of appetite, yellowing of your skin and the whites of eyes (jaundice), dark-colored urine, pale colored stools and itchy skin, stomach area (abdominal) pain.
Resistance to HIV Medicines. If you have untreated HIV infection, Paxlovid may lead to some HIV medicines not working as well in the future.
Other possible side effects include:
altered sense of taste
diarrhea
high blood pressure
muscle aches
These are not all the possible side effects of Paxlovid. Not many people have taken Paxlovid. Serious and unexpected side effects may happen. Paxlovid is still being studied, so it is possible that all of the risks are not known at this time.
"it's a bit scary!" Gez Medinger - 2022
🤗😂
Haha! Well it is!
@@RUNDMC1 That is what makes this an adventure! Adventures are rarely comfortable.
@@flagmichael it’s not an adventure it’s a nightmare
My son collapsed almost 3 years ago after our initial infection in August 2019. He's improved, but only about 50%. I really wish we could fix this.
Thanx Gez!! 1 yr on April 18…😔
God bless you and your loved ones, Gez! You always gave me the answer when I was so hard looking for! And you still do! I have toxoplasma, and I was wondering if it contributes, stil taking I_V_M aleviates simptomes immediately... but I have to repet it, at least monthly, when menstrual cycle appears. Thank you, indefinitelly!🤗
Thanks Anamaria - wishing you the best in your recovery!
wouldn't that menstrual cycle flare up point towards an iron deficiency, or is that too simple? also, it delivers oxygen to the cells and would at least not hélp with SFN
@@themupsmuppet I don't think it points to miron deficiency, because it flares up before the menstrual cycles, not after.
Finally a scientist that tries to get to the root of the problems with long covid and makes sense! Thank you so much for creating this plataform 👍🏼
Thanks Lucy!
Very interesting and concerning.
Thanks for another great video Gez! It is kinda scary though! I do wonder however if we are seeing a "seek and ye shall find" scenario. Probably viruses of many different kinds hide in plain sight in human and animal bodies as a matter of routine. The more important question is what we do about this now, rather than waiting years for medical research to catch up. Any suggestions?
Honestly Dave there isn’t much we can do other than try old wives tale antivirals!
@@RUNDMC1 Lysine and olive leaf extract are in my rotation. Have you heard of any good homeopathic remedies ?
Thank u Gez for all you do on this channel. I have had CFS/ME for over 20 years ..23 years !! My whole kids lives :( I am sicker than I have ever been as I wean off pharma meds that mask symptoms and make u sicker. I am house bound. I have hardly left house in 6 months. LC sounds exactly like CFS to me symptom wise. People are recovering from these two things and I hold out hope for myself but the flip is after 23 years I am f***ed.
I am so sorry to hear this Jacqui 😣 Wishing you the best and I really do hope there’s a recovery soon in your future.
Gez - I know you've had Dr. Patterson on before and I had followed his protocal as a patient of their group as well. I was on the anti-viral Maravoric on two different occasions. It didn't seem to make a difference with me. Have you tried it and do you know if paxlovid is different? Thanks
I haven’t tried it, but yes - paxlovid is a different mechanism
Thanks as always for the video. This one is perfectly timed for my request to my long COVID clinic to let me try Paxlovid (which they will refuse).
I want to try to
Good luck! I couldn't get Paxlovid last week even with a moderate acute reinfection! They told me there isn't any available - not even for cancer patients 😱 If that is accurate, it's pretty scary and LHers have no hope for this drug!
I don’t understand why they keep announcing these drugs to the public and then never getting it to the millions who need it. I know this whole virus was designed to keep the people in line remembering who is “in charge”. But at this point like give the drugs to us or stfu about it.
Amazing talk as always! I was wondering why there aren't any trials on stool transplantation as a possible cure for long covid...
Look up Sabine Hazan MD, a gastroenterologist in USA who's done fecal transplants for C difficile for yrs and since covid, has been studying the gut microbiomes of patients with covid. Did a fecal transplant on a teen girl who had a mild case of covid and also happened to have Tourette's prior to covid. The Tourette's incidentally resolved after the fecal transplant! (Can't recall if the girl had had resistant C diff and that's why Dr. H did the fecal transplant...think so....)
I've recently started Intermittent fasting and low-FODMAP diet which is massively helping my GERD / IBS and food intolerance symptoms. I recently got C19 again and all the symptoms started up again randomly having reactions to foods like broccoli and cabbage.
Baby you are nailing it I contracted covid February 2020 have been living with long covid and last week I took an aspirin and my face exploded with the pox yes I have had chickenpox and other viruses including toxoplasmosis and rubella as a kid my facial skin peeled in its entirety four times in five days and after 3 weeks my face is just starting to clear the pustules were all over getting close to my eyes on my eyelids inside my ears and nose traveling around my neck and down my chest just overnight then I took a a Benadryl and it worsened to the extent my eyes were slits and my skin started splitting and I was afraid of sepsis it was not pretty I'm 64 years old and I am worried more than ever since this happened never had a reaction to either of those drugs before but I am allergic to penicillin not looking forward to suffering that again but after listening to this who knows what else interesting how I just started to be able to walk a mile and pushed myself too hard I think a couple of times and wonder if that had anything to do with my drug reaction frightening although interesting
I'd really like to understand why my whole family (myself daughter son and husband) all have ongoing similar issues, low blood pressure, hair loss, fatigue, sight problems, speech and memory problems. My daughter 14 is being seen at a long covid clinic. This channel has been I believe forefront of my daughters ongoing recovery. We have had Alpha, Delta variant. Each time my husband not testing positive.
I have same symptoms, also really bad anxiety and depression.
@@hilarymurray7800 My daughter has been having terrible depression also, she has had the most awful symptoms rashs, light sensitivity, sound sensitivity.
The neurologist has refused to see her twice now, and we are most probably going to have to go private again.
I'm sorry to hear you are suffering too, its a crippling virus
@@gaylebardrick7725 That stinks, praying for u guys!
I've been struggling with debilitating COVID-like symptoms for the last couple of years. The illness has been undiagnosed by many doctors, but an Infectious Disease doctor from Georgetown suspected that it's Long COVID. In the last 6 months I have had 2 cycles of doxycycline (30 months each, 60 days total) from a previous doctor who thought I might have had RMSF. This provided TREMENDOUS relief. The doctor from Georgetown suspected that it had to do with the anti-inflammatory properties of the drug rather than the anti-viral properties. But after seeing this, I'm wondering if the drug caused another shift in the gut's microbiome and has factored in the alleviating the symptoms. After stopping the drug, the symptoms gradually returned, but to lesser degree. It's an interesting hypothesis, that focusing on changing the gut microbiome might eradicate the virus. Hopefully someone could do more research on this. Interestingly, I have also had GERD symptoms due to hiatal hernia and wondering if such factors are relevant to Long COVID.
Absolutely brilliant information.
I had believed that the reason for theory on "none classical monocyte" disruption was because it was predominantly the S1 being found in the monocytes.
If it was persistent virus then surely we would be seeing other viral debris rather than just S1?
Considering the dormant virus activation could it also be possible that certain individuals could be stuck in a loop of repeated viral activation?
We indeed have a lot of learning to do.
Yes theres lots of other viral debris that’s been found too, beyond just S1!
@@RUNDMC1 Do we have any information that shows a particular prevalence in viral debris found in monocytes?
I gotta say that Bruce Pattersons theory does actually frighten me a lot.
Not educated on the subject but dealing with hidden replicating virus sounds possibly a bit closer with antivirals possibly than dealing with monocytes that will not go into apoptosis.
Thanks again for all you do on this subject.
what I would like to know is after detoxing for months how long does it take the viral damaged tissue to repair? Is this permanent damage?
I can’t believe they need to apply for government funding this should be URGENT FUNDING. I’m so saddened that this is not being pushed as an immediate need. Gov’t should recognize thousands and millions of patients who are waiting for treatment.
What about anti viral pills? Do we have evidence backed up that has helped long haulers with their symptoms? I’d love to see new discussion about this on your page.
We don’t have any data at all yet on antivirals for long covid unfortunately, but I agree it would be great to get those studies up and running
It's perfectly understandable when you walk outside and see that, despite almost everyone having had covid, most people are still perfectly healthy... It's strange for me to think in that way, because to me covid is fundamentally a different thing than it is for most people.
So what is the treatment?
Another comment, my symptoms changed over time, the incredibly awful fatigue has eased, I can walk for miles without sitting down now, my heart rate and heart recovery rate are better, but I now have strong pain across the top of my chest this can happen some days and not others, it can be so bad I have to stop walking..
Same here actually. Same with my head tbh hbu?
@@user-hv8jw1fx7x No headaches really .. I hope you get better fast 👍😊
@@seanwhitfield4581 thanks man!
Is it possible to recover from headaches and other neurological symptoms related to brainstem issues? That was one of the items Dr. Proal suggested that scared me...I have had a headache everyday since my infection 1 year ago
Wow, thank you so much for this. I know it's going to be impossible to persuade my MD of this but I might try to seek out a phytotherapist who could try some plant/herbal remedies to clear any persistent virus that might still be in my body, rather than wait for a Covid antiviral to be developed and then for doctors in my area to become aware of these things. My biggest issues are fatigue, small fiber neuropathy and POTS in that order.
Why wouldn’t you go do that yourself? That’s what I did and it seems to be making things better
I have POTS-like symptoms too. Are you dizzy and lightheaded when you stand and walk?
Yes, I get dizzy and my heart rate and blood pressure rise when I stand. Have you tested your resting vs standing heart rate? If your heart rate goes up by more than 30 points upon standing for 1 or 2 minutes, after taking resting heart rate after 5 minutes of lying down, then you have POTS.
@@Feirin332 yep I have this
Good article on Long COVID on the BBC News website. Discusses the major areas of research investigating the root causes. More coverage is great! Let's hope it spurs more research and therapies quickly.
Do you have a link to it?
@@teddybearroosevelt1847 I tried to add a link and TH-cam rejected my comment here. Wish I could have included it.
@@ezrasteinberg2016 Ezra, write out the complete title of the episode and we can search it out that way.
I’ve been taking loads of natural antiviral, fermented and anti inflammatory herbs and foods because it can’t hurt and the doctor doesn’t know and idk. I’m starting to get better after 1 year, I hope I’m not speaking to soon. This has been a very scary experience.
Can I ask which antivirals you are on? I've been looking into some options and would love to hear what other natural antivirals others are using. I hope you continue to see improvements!
I second Amanda`s question :-)
@@amandahale3247 Monolaurin is the only natural anti viral I’m aware of. And zinc and Vit C I believe.
@@MichalBrat 4 cloves of garlic with lemon daily, lots and lots of onions, oreganol, fresh squeezed orange and lemon juice, teaspoon homemade turmeric and honey and coconut oil (I throw in the pepper sometimes) cloves lots with any tea, ginger with honey and lemon, lots of water and an electrolyte solution everyday, lots of grape juice, berry, pomegranates and grapes for my endothelial cells. I’m taking B complex and magnesium to heal the nerves. 30 to an hour walk in the sun for vitamin D. I just started a month ago, I will add more stuff since i seem to be feeling some improvement. I pretty much google antiviral foods and herbs and I’m starting to throw the kitchen sink at it. It can’t hurt.
@@kimharris6715 funny you mentioned that because all the stuff I’m eating contains those things. I didn’t want to just do supplements because idk what is in those things since it’s not regulated. So I try to get them from food whenever possible.
Another fantastic and informative video! I reflect back around a year ago when I had terrible pain in the back of my neck/base of my brain for around two weeks. I just wanted to cut it out with a knife! Looks like it was exactly where the Vagus Nerv is. The more this unfolds, the more human I feel! Many, manythanks again!
I would think even a tissue sample taken (with consent) during routine colonoscopy would be helpful. As a questionnaire it could be a pre procedure process. “Did you experience Covid infection like symptoms in the past year, two years” “what is your vaccination status” “did you have a confirmed positive PCR test”
I have pelvic and lower back pain, palpitations, spikes in blood pressure and severe erectile dysfunction. I think the caude equina nerv roots are affected from a chronic inflammatory process. Any suggestions how I can treat this? I don't get any treatment at all from my doctor.
Is there any research in regards to autoantibodies heightened type I interferon. A runaway immune response, where the immune response itself gets set off by a different trigger in each scenario. Just feels like I entered a scenario of just call me “Trigger” day in and day out to all things within and without my body.
I had what would be considered a mild dose of Covid end of March this year. Eight months on I’m still testing positive on a lateral flow. More recently my lateral flow shows up positive after the half hour period meaning that I still have the virus 🦠 in my body 😢. I’m sure there are others just like me.
I will say that I haven't been the same since getting Covid. I have had Covid tongue for over a year now. The dentist said I am having something called geographic tongue caused by immune system issues. It does seem that the virus has moved around my body including my brain and joints. If the worst I have now is an odd looking tongue I will take it.
Yes - joints and even bone pain for so, so long.
EBV gets reactivated - yes, and 95% of people have it in an inactive state since childhood.
@@barbarawarren9443 I don't get sick often, but when I do....it usually is a chain reaction that lasts months. I am sure I got other things going on like EBV. I just try to stay as healthy as possible so as to avoid the over reaction of the immune system. This last sick lasted way too long. I hope to never get sick like that again. I also disagree with all the boosters they push. One of those could cause a person like me more sickness. I want to travel again to Europe in 2023, but I don't want a shot to do it. It isn't fair. If we already have had the virus, why essentially inject us again with it???? It is madness.
@@77Tadams I agree with you 100%, and I'm right in there with you.
@@barbarawarren9443 Im planning my trip hoping it blows over and we can all just get on with our lives.
could Metisoprinol (pranosine) work against viral persistence? Or even NK cells?
Very interesting. I have suffered with me/cfs since a severe infection with an enterovirus coxsackie B. For many years I've believed there is a reservoir of virus in the gut as well as virus in the CNS causing neuro symptoms. My condition has got worse with relapses and the gut is now in a constant state of inflammation/mcas and meds help a little. We need an antiviral which eradicates virus in the gut. I think treatments will come along for long covid but me/cfs will be the poor relation! A drug called pleconaril was developed but shelved by FDA because, in majority of patients, enterovirus only causes mild illness!!!!
Have you tried ivm or HCq??
@@canadafreedomconvoy5827 hi there. Ivm is ivermectin? What sort of dose please?
What is Hcq? Many thanks!!!
I have another question. I wonder if a body/gut detox/cleanse would scout out those pesky reservoirs of virus? Even any supplements that would get rid of parasites?