We’ve had really lovely feedback from Seawind, Outremer, Leopard and Lagoon. I guess it’s easy to respond when the reviews are positive. One thing we keep getting picked up on is that we are being unfair on “charter” boats. As we mention in every video, we are looking for a liveaboard. If the boat isn’t suited to being a liveaboard, for our needs, we mention it. We also have the advantage of not being brokers. We have no agenda and no bias. We also try to further eliminate the bias by using averages from your votes to make our “Top 10”
@@chuckprice9500 Now here's a guy who obviously has a copy of _How to Win Friends and Influence People_ on his desk. Carnegie came to you for advice, yeah? ROTFLMAO
Thanks. You are the only reviewers who actually criticize boats rather than chatting them up like the owner is holding the camera for you. It is so helpful. Your fair assessments both - pro & con - provide insights that help viewers understand how one should look at every boat, not just the one y'all happen to be on.
We try to be fair and objective when we are assessing a boat. Bear in mind it is simply our opinion. However, we are not brokers with a potentially hidden agenda, so we are freer to point out things we think could be improved upon.
Darker hair. I like it!! Makes your eyes stand out! Just saying by6 the way. Young man, you are curt and straightforward. Some or many people do not like this. I do Nick. People grumble but they keep looking at your videos! Good job you two!!!!THANK YOU BOTH! For bringing us along on your journey!!!!!!
This is what happens when a monohull builder starts trying to build catamarans. I know Bavaria build Nautitech, but they bought out a company that already had expertise in that area. It seems to me that Beneteau made a corporate decision that they had to get into this market. They then realised that they didn't have the expertise and to design from scratch would take years and money. So instead, they bought the hull in. Lagoon being sensible charged them a premium for that which then left Beneteau not much money to fit out the boat, and this now shows in the interior. Great review again Nick and Terysa... looking forward to your Antares review.
As always, a great video. We are also looking for our next catamaran (currently in a PDQ36). You all are looking at cats WAY outside our price range, but we are really learning a lot from what you look at on each boat. Looks like we are crossing the Beneteau right off our list of 'boats to see,' so thanks for that! Are in love with the seawinds (the 1260s); maybe if we hit the lottery!
Having just spent time in Japan, I have a new appreciation for Terysa's obsession with ventilation. - Which might be one thing this boat has going for it.
Toatally agree with your review on this one. I think you were a little generous with your scoring on fit and finish. We’re looking at the lagoon 40 and even more so now! Thanks guys you always provide excellent reviews.
I was really anticipating something special from Beneteau when they announced these. But, I was also disappointed when I went on board. One dealer told me that Beneteau made these for their dealer network so they could stem the sales losses to competing catamaran sales. This seems the best explanation for the end result to me. SK in the UK.
I know this is old, however.... My plan in the next two years is to buy the best used multihull I can find, and then pray that I can forget your review of that model, and never ever watch it again. You're a great team, scathing about pointlessly dumb things. Wait, that didn't sound right. What I mean is you point out the dumb things the boat company has done for no good reason. I hope they're watching. I would hate to be sailing around my bargain cat with your list of short comings rattling in a loop through my head. It would be impossible to forget because I'm sure you are absolutely right. Maybe some day you can do a video "List of great used cats, but... here's what's wrong about each of them." That would be a great watch. Again, thank you
I agree about the fitment and finish of the boat. What is the dent under the port light at the 12:19 mark? just looks flimsy when you are seeing these types of things and chips on a factory new craft. Nice review once again!
Loving your reviews, thanks for taking the time! I'm looking forward to your reviews on the Majestic and St. Francis. You guys share a bit more info than Craig over on Sailing Off Duty though I do love his video tours.
life boat access???? what life boat access.... oh you mean the one that would be completely blocked by your dinghy and when there is no dinghy there it's just out in the middle of nowhere and you have to lean way over the rear launder to heave it out hoping it doesn't pull you over with it. that life boat access. love the video guys and love your channel, fully support what you guys are doing and thank you sooo very much for sharing your wonderful journey with us. this cat is a 100% no go for me mad my family's needs!!!!
Yay! Love watching the reviews as you look for your new boat. Any news on the sale of Ruby Rose? I cant wait to see you choose the new boat and move in. So exciting and looking forward to more reviews.
The unit shown in Cannes was an owner’s version, way better refined. After seeing it in Cannes, the unit in Southampton felt like a prototype, which I think this boat was. It is faster than a Lagoon 40 because the boom is much lower and sail area (optionally) bigger. But yes in the end it’s just a lightly modified Lagoon 40. Also just to remind you that Excess and Lagoon are one company, both brands belong to Beneteau. This boat is made by Lagoon on a practical level, if you spoke to people from Excess they also work for Lagoon. This is just Lagoon’s attempt to compete with Nautitech (and failing miserably at it). Thanks for your great videos.
According to our information, the sail area is identical between the lagoon 40 and the excess12. We put both specs in the video. Do they have an option for a different mast?
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose yes, they mention it in the specs and the brochure and on their website, they call it pulse line. And the unit in Cannes had this pulse line rig, which comes as part of a sportier package. Honestly the unit in Cannes was significantly better, the one in Southampton was probably just an early prototype, there were many bits missing! And the UK dealer is useless. In the end, the Nautitechs are way better, no doubt.
Was excited to see a review of a catamaran that I personally hadn't heard of, and built by Beneteau with a good reputation in the monohull world. Too bad it really doesn't seem to offer anything particularly exciting for a boat you'd want to own. As to the outboard helms, I can see those being exciting. Even if the boat isn't a racer by catamaran standards, off the wind it's still a fast boat if you compare to a monohull. Think about it as a really wide monohull instead of a catamaran and suddenly some of the choices make more sense. Even at slower speeds, getting outboard with the good sight lines and the water right there next to you makes everything _feel_ more exciting, even if it might not be. On a charter boat or a weekender, I bet they'll actually be rather fun to have. Overall I think you're right on - a boat for the charter market and not what you're looking for.
The only good reviews I hear on the beneteau monohulls are from coastal cruisers that have never sailed an ocean or owned a different sailboat. We looked a some new ones at Annapolis a couple years ago. The tankage was horrible. Build quality bad. No handholds. Have you noticed that a lot of the sailing channels who crossed a ocean with one no longer own one. They are made cheap to sale cheap to the 95% of people who never leave the lake or bay.
Well, at least stuff isn't falling off the cabin walls and bulkheads. Your review of the Seawind 1600 gives it an astronomical 42 out of 50. But, we're talking about a 50' yacht versus a 38' yacht. I'm sure that a Seawind 1260 will be at Annapolis, and I would be interested in seeing how that compares to the production cats like Lagoon, Nautitech, Excess and such. It might be a little bit more money, fully spec'd for bluewater cruising, but it would be money well spent. Really wish I could support you on Patreon, but right now, just not possible. Maybe one day.
Honey we can't find a boat we really like, so let just build one... These reviews are best on mark we never knew there were so many aspects right down to making the bed to safety next to a stove top.... Carry-on
A couplle thoughts. Lagoon and Beneteau are owned by the same company. Kind of like GM ownes Chevorlet and Buick, ect... Lagoon started out as part of Jeanneau. Then went to thier own Brand in 1999- 2000. My thoughts are that with it being a charter target market. They wanted to make the cockpit as large as possiable thus putting the helm outboard. Also charter boats are only sailed or driven a few hours a day so that isnt a big deal being exposed for hours at a time or in a nasty sea at night.
Isn't the life raft position blocked by a dinghy and especially hard to reach if the back of the catamaran is deeper in the water in an emergency situation? (like a flood in the engine compartment)
ARRRGH!!!...Thar be me favorite sailors on the briny deep....Ole Blackbeard would be a'watchin if'nn he not be in Davy Jone's locker....fine video mate, fine video indeed!
Probably your best review so far guys. Some really good points made. But It's still a cat 🤣Think what else you could get monohull for that money, not lose the vat when you leave the dock, and hold its price for years to come...... Sail safe. Ant, Cid and the pooch crew xx
We had a look at the Excess 11 at the Southampton Boat Show last week, and whilst space was good overall, especially the master cabin with it’s huge bed. We found that storage was a little lacking and as you found, the fit and finish felt like Ikea to say the least. Reckon you’d be repairing and replacing it all after a year or two. They also confirmed the Hull was brand new on the 11 so it may well be a different sailing experience, whereas the Excess 12 and 15 are indeed Lagoon mounds. Good to see though, but I’d really want a better spec’d interior for that cash, or at the very least one that looked harder wearing.
As I want at least 4 cabin this layout is VERY refreshing and nice because as an owner I can have my masters hull with full bathroom but have also three other cabins in the other hull. Though I would have deleted one bathroom.
See you two in Annapolis next week! We are looking pretty hard at sub 45ft catamarans. One realization I am coming to is that I am falling back in love with mono hull designs. My wife is sold on cats (thanks Nikki and Jason Wynn), so one thing I want to accomplish at Annapolis is showing her what $500k usd gets in a cat vs a mono. In your reviews thus far, have you felt that catamarans have a much more “caravan” or cheap feel to them? I think a budget of $300-$500k would get you a beautiful monohull but a rather disappointing cat.
As a GWTW's fan and now catamaran owner, my husband tried the same argument on me. I can tell you it's not about "what you get for the price" for me, it's about the lifestyle. I felt like going down into a coffin on every expensive monohull we went on, and the pitching and rolling was a no bueno for me. The movement of the cat and feeling like I'm skating across the ocean instead of sitting in it were why I pushed us to not get half a boat. ;)
Hi guys - love your videos, especially the catamaran reviews. Are you planning on trialing or reviewing any catamarans with electric sail drives? One or two manufacturers have one available in their ranges and FP are at prototype stage. It must the the future of liveaboard sailing boats?
Hi Nick & Terysa, thanks for the video and the serie of cat reviews, great stuff. It was announced that FP has introduced some new finishes to their cats. Do you have any chance to re-visit previously filmed models (i.e. Astrea may be) and to compare if quality is improved over joinery and in the engine bay?
I don’t think we’ll revisit any, but we’re definitely open to reviewing alternative models in the line up. We’ll see how we go at the show. Thanks for the info!
Another great review. You guys are awesome. I've seen other videos on this boat and I've never really like them. I don't like the design and layout. And the helms, in my humble opinion, is stupid. I don't like the "tent" cover, or the foldable seat, or.... all of it really. After this informative review, now I like it even less hahah. My wife and I love your channel.
Great review Particularly dislike sharp corners on a boat in house or office these are hazards waiting to hurt you!!! Rounded corners maybe like a lot of Art Deco stuff are inherently safe and attractive. Fantastic format embodied in your review Thanks
Thanks for the great in-depth reviews with debate. Any chance of a Seawind 1260? I know you have done the 1600 but the smaller one is quite a bit cheaper than the more ultra performance sister.
Man, that galley is two times smaller than in our old 36ft/11mts cat! But hey, how many owners of these boats will ever cook a decent meal? :-) Agree with you about those helm stations. Nice for sunny, light weather sailing, but not for year round cruisers. Happy greetingz, Wim
Lagoon is owned by Beneteau Group. It sounds like Beneteau designed the Excess to not compete with the Lagoon 40, but to appeal to a different mix of small catamaran shoppers. I like the Lagoons better personally.
I was just excited that you used inches and not CM! Lol! But ya I didn’t expect quality from that company. I’ve sailed many days on one of their monohulls.
like the few diesel duck videos I find though they don't seem at all like what you two are looking for - what is the difference between a sail assisted trawler vs sail trawler vs a sailboat/cat? Also, advantages and disadvantages of steel hull w/ aluminum sub structure vs fiberglass or even carbon fiber?
I would think the outboard helms would be a positive for the increased living space. Love your opinions, I hope these manufactures take this feedback seriously.
Well said, I totally dont understand where they were going with this boat! I wouldn’t even bother looking at it, for me its its an epic fail on the helms alone.
I wasn't aware that Lagoon and Beneteau were under the same flag. It takes some time to get your head around that thought. Under either brand name they will sell a lot of these boats just on affordability alone. Most boat owners drool over the luxury brands but buy boats like these because that's what they can afford. Compared to some other boats on your list you could buy three of these.
Maybe the helms are there to give the cockpit more space. It's a charter boat targeted at a young clientel. They want space for entertaining over other considerations.
I think what they are aiming at is charter companies, not individuals. Beneteau is one of the largest sailing yacht manufacturers and, as such, can discount large orders plus customize on said large orders. I also think that outboard helm stations are done on charters to separate the 'sailors' from everyone else.... In this case, you are def. not the target market and neither is anyone watching this (unless you are a buyer for a charter company....).
about the stanchions - I think I know why they are recessed. I believe you showed a recessed "gutter" about 4" wide. I believe that could be a channel for water drainage possibly going to a storage tank. There was even a channel around one of the hatches going to the outer gutter. The stanchions would have less chances of water damage to the bases by not sitting in that channel and having water pooled around it.
It “is” a Lagoon 40 thru and thru. Every aspect of the interior is exactly the same, including the grab rail that Terysa pointed out going down in the owners hull. And the Excess 15 is a carbon copy of the Lagoon 50.
Excess catamarans are just not charter boats. Where did you get that idea from? Built to a budget and boats that sail really well. The power from the mainsail is phenomenal compared to the Lagoon 40 and 42. It absolutely is a performance cruiser compared to Lagoons.
You would think Beneteau would throw their best quality work at their first Cat offering.... Thinking you are correct in assuming that this being a Beneteau, the quality should have been thru the roof. Obviously they don't think of Cats the same way they do about Monohulls....
The mind boggles. What must have that meeting been like at Beneteau group HQ where they all sat around and said let's go spend a crap ton of money creating a new brand to what end? "New Coke" anyone? When EXS was first announced I was hopeful that they were going upmarket as I think Lagoon is more in line with Beneteau, so was hoping for a Jeanneau or better cat.
Don't understand why nav tables face to the side. When I'm actually navigating or looking at instruments, I find it important to be situated (seated) towards the front of the boat for direction orientation. Its a simplicity thing. When tired, my mind doesn't want to mentally adjust for a 90 degree sitting position. How can sitting sideways be a natural position when moving forward? Like trying to drive a car while sitting on the center console pointed to the side window! :-) And if you want to do a horizon check, you have to stand and turn completely around instead of just standing and looking port and starboard. Seems silly to me.
I don't get why they are saying the performance is the same as the Lagoon 40. The Excess 12 should preform better, it has more sail area and is lighter. The boom is lower for one thing.
I don’t get the point in the xs series of boats. Why build the same thing, with minor changes and a new name. When I first heard about it. I was really excited thinking it was going to be a performance cat. Even if all they did was a foam core and a larger rig. But they didn’t do anything but add a different option to an existing boat. You’re basically paying almost $50k US more for an extra helm station.
Thanks for the excellent review guys. When first talked about this line was talked of as some sporty game changer and yet the reality is much different it would appear. A well known TH-cam broker - and seemingly nice chap - speaks of them as cruiser/liveaboards. I guess this is because his firm has the onerous job of selling them. Neither fish nor fowl for me and a major faux pas from the world's biggest cat maker. Odd.
oddly enough im actually ok with cheap materials executed well. both my wifey and i are simple people and were actually a bit put off by opulence since that isnt how we were raised were just not used to it. helm position is a non-starter for me. interesting note is that of all the cats you've reviewed this one actually looks like the easiest to refit; a lot of that stuff looks like its off the shelf from a hardware store.
Did you actually had a price list? The advertising said most sailing gear would be including on these, is that confirmed? Or you did price assumption without these informations? Also a statement about the performance rigging would have been interesting, even though I think the xcs11 will be more interesting
As usual, a brilliant review! Helm position - On the Outremer et al it makes sense. But, on this ?!?!?!?!? The 'spoiler on a bathtub' comment says it all. I would love to hear the senior management rationale for this clusterf%&k! Poor design choices, poor build quality, cheap components ... AND competing in a crowded market with no defining USP. It's almost like they gave all the marketing and management trainees/interns ( and non sailors ) free reign to ruin their business. In comparison to FP and Lagoon I can't see the viewers review marks being very favorable. Even the Neal Trimaran stands a chance of being rated higher !!
it wouldn't stand up to the wear and tear of charters and one would think a company of that sized with umpteen designers could do allot better - would never buy one - maybe a charter for a week - but if i could get a Lagoon on charter i would take that.
Every boat you have reviewed is a production boat, as far as I can tell. Some are more expensive and some are more customisable. They are all assembled on a factory line. I believe that a non-production boat, strictly, is one that has been designed and built only once. In either case, it is not really clear to me what you mean when you refer to ‘production’ boats. Sometimes it seems as though you may mean boats that are designed for charter and other times it seems as though you may just mean the lower end production boats. I also prefer the Lagoon 40 over this, but I think you may have been a little harsh in your scoring - my guess is that this will be reflected in the outcome from your app - we’ll see. For example, the build quality looked like a mixed bag, some good and some not so good points. Although I think this boat is not as good value for money as the Lagoon 40, they both should score fairly high in this category compared with the high end production boats. You pay for what you get, it is true, but it is definitely not a linear scale. Almost by definition, a good low end boat, will, hands down, be better value for money than anything else on the new boat market.
Hey mate, we consider production boats to be made on a production line by big manufacturers. They have little room for customisation and normally take 1,000-2,000 hours to build. The production run is normally geared for the charter market and will often run into the 100's Non production boats are generally built in smaller numbers. They are geared towards owners and take a lot longer to build. People generally accept that Lagoon, Fountaine Pajot, Leopard and Now Beneteau are production boats. Other brands like Outremer, Seawind, Xsquisite are non- production. Hope this helps.
Yes, thank you. I think the term, like many others in sailing, may be another one of those moveable feasts. Great content on your channel by the way - and keep up the eloquent expositions (as I prefer to think of them). Great on screen dynamics between the two of you. :)
Great video. Super informative. Other than Neal, have you had any responses from manufacturers to your reviews?
We’ve had really lovely feedback from Seawind, Outremer, Leopard and Lagoon. I guess it’s easy to respond when the reviews are positive.
One thing we keep getting picked up on is that we are being unfair on “charter” boats. As we mention in every video, we are looking for a liveaboard. If the boat isn’t suited to being a liveaboard, for our needs, we mention it. We also have the advantage of not being brokers. We have no agenda and no bias. We also try to further eliminate the bias by using averages from your votes to make our “Top 10”
Chuck Price Huh?! You having a hemorrhoid flare up today?
@@chuckprice9500 Now here's a guy who obviously has a copy of _How to Win Friends and Influence People_ on his desk. Carnegie came to you for advice, yeah? ROTFLMAO
@@chuckprice9500 Ok maybe I am a little slow, but since you didn't watch (your words) just how are you informed enough to make any comment?
@@chuckprice9500 0/10 for grammar. 0/10 for style. 0/10 for attitude. 1/10 for spelling your name correctly which gives you a combined score of 1/40.
Thanks. You are the only reviewers who actually criticize boats rather than chatting them up like the owner is holding the camera for you. It is so helpful. Your fair assessments both - pro & con - provide insights that help viewers understand how one should look at every boat, not just the one y'all happen to be on.
We try to be fair and objective when we are assessing a boat. Bear in mind it is simply our opinion. However, we are not brokers with a potentially hidden agenda, so we are freer to point out things we think could be improved upon.
Darker hair. I like it!! Makes your eyes stand out! Just saying by6 the way. Young man, you are curt and straightforward. Some or many people do not like this. I do Nick. People grumble but they keep looking at your videos! Good job you two!!!!THANK YOU BOTH! For bringing us along on your journey!!!!!!
In summary: The Excess Cat is a nice boat to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there. 💨⛵️. Thanks guys for the thorough review yet once again!
Thanks for the comment Troy!
This is what happens when a monohull builder starts trying to build catamarans. I know Bavaria build Nautitech, but they bought out a company that already had expertise in that area. It seems to me that Beneteau made a corporate decision that they had to get into this market. They then realised that they didn't have the expertise and to design from scratch would take years and money. So instead, they bought the hull in. Lagoon being sensible charged them a premium for that which then left Beneteau not much money to fit out the boat, and this now shows in the interior. Great review again Nick and Terysa... looking forward to your Antares review.
Thanks mate.
As always, a great video. We are also looking for our next catamaran (currently in a PDQ36). You all are looking at cats WAY outside our price range, but we are really learning a lot from what you look at on each boat. Looks like we are crossing the Beneteau right off our list of 'boats to see,' so thanks for that! Are in love with the seawinds (the 1260s); maybe if we hit the lottery!
We are seeing a 1260 soon
Having just spent time in Japan, I have a new appreciation for Terysa's obsession with ventilation. - Which might be one thing this boat has going for it.
Disk0 I’m telling you, it’s important! 😆
Love your review series! Thanks for helping all of us narrowing our search. My favorite line - Teresa "I can stand" Not sure it helps most of us!
Ha! True 😊
Toatally agree with your review on this one. I think you were a little generous with your scoring on fit and finish. We’re looking at the lagoon 40 and even more so now! Thanks guys you always provide excellent reviews.
A pleasure mate
I was really anticipating something special from Beneteau when they announced these. But, I was also disappointed when I went on board. One dealer told me that Beneteau made these for their dealer network so they could stem the sales losses to competing catamaran sales. This seems the best explanation for the end result to me. SK in the UK.
Interesting that they threw it out soley to fill a gap.
I know this is old, however.... My plan in the next two years is to buy the best used multihull I can find, and then pray that I can forget your review of that model, and never ever watch it again. You're a great team, scathing about pointlessly dumb things. Wait, that didn't sound right. What I mean is you point out the dumb things the boat company has done for no good reason. I hope they're watching.
I would hate to be sailing around my bargain cat with your list of short comings rattling in a loop through my head. It would be impossible to forget because I'm sure you are absolutely right. Maybe some day you can do a video "List of great used cats, but... here's what's wrong about each of them." That would be a great watch. Again, thank you
Thank you for showing just how hard it would be to get on top of the cabin... Highlight of the video.. 😉👍🔥
I agree about the fitment and finish of the boat. What is the dent under the port light at the 12:19 mark? just looks flimsy when you are seeing these types of things and chips on a factory new craft. Nice review once again!
Looking forward to the Antares review!!
We're looking forward to seeing it!
Loving your reviews, thanks for taking the time! I'm looking forward to your reviews on the Majestic and St. Francis. You guys share a bit more info than Craig over on Sailing Off Duty though I do love his video tours.
Kitiala we have different styles and both are valuable!! I think cruising off duty does a brilliant job. Definitely worth watching both our reviews.
@@sailingrubyrose Couldn't agree more, everyone should definitely watch both!
life boat access???? what life boat access.... oh you mean the one that would be completely blocked by your dinghy and when there is no dinghy there it's just out in the middle of nowhere and you have to lean way over the rear launder to heave it out hoping it doesn't pull you over with it. that life boat access. love the video guys and love your channel, fully support what you guys are doing and thank you sooo very much for sharing your wonderful journey with us. this cat is a 100% no go for me mad my family's needs!!!!
Thanks mate
@@sailingrubyrose good morning to you and good night to me lol
Yay! Love watching the reviews as you look for your new boat. Any news on the sale of Ruby Rose? I cant wait to see you choose the new boat and move in. So exciting and looking forward to more reviews.
Cheers mate. Brexit is putting a cramp on selling RR as she’s Uk flagged. We’re not in any great rush though. It will all work out
I hope you do a video of the St Francis 50 mkii. Looks like it would be a great fit for you and I am interested in your thoughts.
The unit shown in Cannes was an owner’s version, way better refined. After seeing it in Cannes, the unit in Southampton felt like a prototype, which I think this boat was.
It is faster than a Lagoon 40 because the boom is much lower and sail area (optionally) bigger. But yes in the end it’s just a lightly modified Lagoon 40.
Also just to remind you that Excess and Lagoon are one company, both brands belong to Beneteau. This boat is made by Lagoon on a practical level, if you spoke to people from Excess they also work for Lagoon. This is just Lagoon’s attempt to compete with Nautitech (and failing miserably at it).
Thanks for your great videos.
According to our information, the sail area is identical between the lagoon 40 and the excess12. We put both specs in the video. Do they have an option for a different mast?
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose yes, they mention it in the specs and the brochure and on their website, they call it pulse line. And the unit in Cannes had this pulse line rig, which comes as part of a sportier package. Honestly the unit in Cannes was significantly better, the one in Southampton was probably just an early prototype, there were many bits missing! And the UK dealer is useless.
In the end, the Nautitechs are way better, no doubt.
Lagoon is part of the Beneteau group, hence the economy of using the hull from that range
Was excited to see a review of a catamaran that I personally hadn't heard of, and built by Beneteau with a good reputation in the monohull world. Too bad it really doesn't seem to offer anything particularly exciting for a boat you'd want to own.
As to the outboard helms, I can see those being exciting. Even if the boat isn't a racer by catamaran standards, off the wind it's still a fast boat if you compare to a monohull. Think about it as a really wide monohull instead of a catamaran and suddenly some of the choices make more sense. Even at slower speeds, getting outboard with the good sight lines and the water right there next to you makes everything _feel_ more exciting, even if it might not be. On a charter boat or a weekender, I bet they'll actually be rather fun to have.
Overall I think you're right on - a boat for the charter market and not what you're looking for.
The only good reviews I hear on the beneteau monohulls are from coastal cruisers that have never sailed an ocean or owned a different sailboat. We looked a some new ones at Annapolis a couple years ago. The tankage was horrible. Build quality bad. No handholds. Have you noticed that a lot of the sailing channels who crossed a ocean with one no longer own one. They are made cheap to sale cheap to the 95% of people who never leave the lake or bay.
Well, at least stuff isn't falling off the cabin walls and bulkheads.
Your review of the Seawind 1600 gives it an astronomical 42 out of 50. But, we're talking about a 50' yacht versus a 38' yacht. I'm sure that a Seawind 1260 will be at Annapolis, and I would be interested in seeing how that compares to the production cats like Lagoon, Nautitech, Excess and such. It might be a little bit more money, fully spec'd for bluewater cruising, but it would be money well spent.
Really wish I could support you on Patreon, but right now, just not possible. Maybe one day.
Mate, your comments are more than enough for us.
@@sailingrubyrose Thank you, Nick.
Highly informative & in-depth review ...looking forward to the Balance Catamaran... thanks.
Just took a look at the excess 12 at Valencia boat show. Agreed. Plus; Haven’t found any!! storage in the pantry except two small overhead cupboards.
Love the honesty, thanks for posting!
Honey we can't find a boat we really like, so let just build one... These reviews are best on mark we never knew there were so many aspects right down to making the bed to safety next to a stove top.... Carry-on
let the catamaran review season begin.
Excellent RANT on the "no love" Galley. Put some love in your work. Love it!!!!
A couplle thoughts.
Lagoon and Beneteau are owned by the same company. Kind of like GM ownes Chevorlet and Buick, ect...
Lagoon started out as part of Jeanneau. Then went to thier own Brand in 1999- 2000.
My thoughts are that with it being a charter target market. They wanted to make the cockpit as large as possiable thus putting the helm outboard. Also charter boats are only sailed or driven a few hours a day so that isnt a big deal being exposed for hours at a time or in a nasty sea at night.
I get that totally. However they make an owners version too
Nick is next for a signal little color. Cooking with Salt and pepper. Great Video as always!! This one does look sleek...
Friends of mine run a charter company from a Beneteau 52, that boat is immaculate.
Oh we have seen some amazing Beneteau monohulls. Friends of ours had a 44 (I think) beautiful inside and out.
Isn't the life raft position blocked by a dinghy and especially hard to reach if the back of the catamaran is deeper in the water in an emergency situation? (like a flood in the engine compartment)
Love your comparison process, it is very educational
Thanks a bunch
ARRRGH!!!...Thar be me favorite sailors on the briny deep....Ole Blackbeard would be a'watchin if'nn he not be in Davy Jone's locker....fine video mate, fine video indeed!
Probably your best review so far guys. Some really good points made. But It's still a cat 🤣Think what else you could get monohull for that money, not lose the vat when you leave the dock, and hold its price for years to come...... Sail safe. Ant, Cid and the pooch crew xx
We had a look at the Excess 11 at the Southampton Boat Show last week, and whilst space was good overall, especially the master cabin with it’s huge bed. We found that storage was a little lacking and as you found, the fit and finish felt like Ikea to say the least. Reckon you’d be repairing and replacing it all after a year or two. They also confirmed the Hull was brand new on the 11 so it may well be a different sailing experience, whereas the Excess 12 and 15 are indeed Lagoon mounds. Good to see though, but I’d really want a better spec’d interior for that cash, or at the very least one that looked harder wearing.
As I want at least 4 cabin this layout is VERY refreshing and nice because as an owner I can have my masters hull with full bathroom but have also three other cabins in the other hull. Though I would have deleted one bathroom.
Thanks for sharing your travels and your thoughts on the Cats.
See you two in Annapolis next week! We are looking pretty hard at sub 45ft catamarans. One realization I am coming to is that I am falling back in love with mono hull designs. My wife is sold on cats (thanks Nikki and Jason Wynn), so one thing I want to accomplish at Annapolis is showing her what $500k usd gets in a cat vs a mono. In your reviews thus far, have you felt that catamarans have a much more “caravan” or cheap feel to them? I think a budget of $300-$500k would get you a beautiful monohull but a rather disappointing cat.
Agree 100% mate
As a GWTW's fan and now catamaran owner, my husband tried the same argument on me. I can tell you it's not about "what you get for the price" for me, it's about the lifestyle. I felt like going down into a coffin on every expensive monohull we went on, and the pitching and rolling was a no bueno for me. The movement of the cat and feeling like I'm skating across the ocean instead of sitting in it were why I pushed us to not get half a boat. ;)
Hi guys - love your videos, especially the catamaran reviews. Are you planning on trialing or reviewing any catamarans with electric sail drives? One or two manufacturers have one available in their ranges and FP are at prototype stage. It must the the future of liveaboard sailing boats?
Hi Nick & Terysa, thanks for the video and the serie of cat reviews, great stuff.
It was announced that FP has introduced some new finishes to their cats. Do you have any chance to re-visit previously filmed models (i.e. Astrea may be) and to compare if quality is improved over joinery and in the engine bay?
I don’t think we’ll revisit any, but we’re definitely open to reviewing alternative models in the line up. We’ll see how we go at the show. Thanks for the info!
Another great review. You guys are awesome. I've seen other videos on this boat and I've never really like them. I don't like the design and layout. And the helms, in my humble opinion, is stupid. I don't like the "tent" cover, or the foldable seat, or.... all of it really. After this informative review, now I like it even less hahah. My wife and I love your channel.
Great review
Particularly dislike sharp corners on a boat in house or office these are hazards waiting to hurt you!!! Rounded corners maybe like a lot of Art Deco stuff are inherently safe and attractive.
Fantastic format embodied in your review
Thanks
Still like the X50 the best. Just need to hit the lottery. Look forward to the day you review one.
Thanks for the great in-depth reviews with debate. Any chance of a Seawind 1260? I know you have done the 1600 but the smaller one is quite a bit cheaper than the more ultra performance sister.
We are seeing it next week in Annapolis
@@sailingrubyrose Also looking forward to seeing the 1260 review
Man, that galley is two times smaller than in our old 36ft/11mts cat! But hey, how many owners of these boats will ever cook a decent meal? :-) Agree with you about those helm stations. Nice for sunny, light weather sailing, but not for year round cruisers.
Happy greetingz, Wim
Cheers mate
Lagoon is owned by Beneteau Group. It sounds like Beneteau designed the Excess to not compete with the Lagoon 40, but to appeal to a different mix of small catamaran shoppers. I like the Lagoons better personally.
Loved this bit "They've crammed a lot of volume in here".
"It's like putting a spoiler on a bathtub" LOL!! 🤣🤣
yep. i laughed out loud with that. lol 😂👏👏
I spit up my morning coffee I laughed so hard when he said that.
It reminds me of the spoilers I saw on buses in El Salvador! Ahh, sweet memories ^_^
There is a ladder that is stored underneath the cabin top to get on top the cabin.
As all others nicely presented , like your point system . Wonder , did you view the Alubat ?
When it comes out we will look at it
@@sailingrubyrose Cool , like their helm position solution
www.alubat.com/ovnicat-48
@@PaulusPHM that helm position is the same as the Lagoon 380 or the mid 00's Leopard 43's.
I was just excited that you used inches and not CM! Lol! But ya I didn’t expect quality from that company. I’ve sailed many days on one of their monohulls.
like the few diesel duck videos I find though they don't seem at all like what you two are looking for - what is the difference between a sail assisted trawler vs sail trawler vs a sailboat/cat? Also, advantages and disadvantages of steel hull w/ aluminum sub structure vs fiberglass or even carbon fiber?
Hi guys. Enjoying your work, thanks.
Great review, as always.
Cheers mate
I would think the outboard helms would be a positive for the increased living space. Love your opinions, I hope these manufactures take this feedback seriously.
Oh they definitely free up cockpit space
Would an outboard helm be better for a solo sailor since everything is on one level and would not have to go up and down?
Good job on the review, but we don’t care for the boat especially after visiting the Antares today at the Annapolis Boat Show.
Hi guys I was wondering if you are doing a review on the Leopard 40? As this has no forward facing cockpit you didn’t t like on the 45.
We’ll see if we can get one done sometime
Wow! Theresa your hair looks fab. Gorgeous gal xxx
Heh, thanks Annette 😊
Why can a helm posision be out in the open and on both side on a monohull boat, but are very bad on a catamaran?
Think how exposed the helm would be on a cat. On a monohull you are still on a centrally placed cockpit, normally enclosed with high combings.
Sailing Yacht Ruby Rose .. I not totaly agree, see Southerly 49 or Swan 48. Therefore I wondered. 😇
Well said, I totally dont understand where they were going with this boat! I wouldn’t even bother looking at it, for me its its an epic fail on the helms alone.
Did you leave a review score mate?
I think the sole reason for the outboard helms was for the gain in outdoor cockpit area.
I wasn't aware that Lagoon and Beneteau were under the same flag. It takes some time to get your head around that thought. Under either brand name they will sell a lot of these boats just on affordability alone. Most boat owners drool over the luxury brands but buy boats like these because that's what they can afford. Compared to some other boats on your list you could buy three of these.
I might be wrong but I think it's Beneteau's first catamaran product. Maybe they will make improvements?
Hopefully they will
"Blue"...34 foot if I recall....
Maybe the helms are there to give the cockpit more space. It's a charter boat targeted at a young clientel. They want space for entertaining over other considerations.
True. And the cockpit is lovely and spacious.
That's what my husband thinks, as well-he says if you're hardly ever going to use the helms, de-prioritize them (aka charter boats).
A pity they don't take a leaf out of Toyota's way and make the equivalent of a Lexus with the Lagoon 42 for private owners.
Hi like your videos very much how about a Lagoon 50 for one of the next films? Thanks
I think what they are aiming at is charter companies, not individuals. Beneteau is one of the largest sailing yacht manufacturers and, as such, can discount large orders plus customize on said large orders. I also think that outboard helm stations are done on charters to separate the 'sailors' from everyone else.... In this case, you are def. not the target market and neither is anyone watching this (unless you are a buyer for a charter company....).
Agreed 100%...... although they do an owners version too
about the stanchions - I think I know why they are recessed. I believe you showed a recessed "gutter" about 4" wide. I believe that could be a channel for water drainage possibly going to a storage tank. There was even a channel around one of the hatches going to the outer gutter. The stanchions would have less chances of water damage to the bases by not sitting in that channel and having water pooled around it.
It may be the case my friend.
“final kick in the ass”
😂😂😂🤣🤣👏👏👏
Another fab review guys
Cheers mate.
Perhaps a similar review of Ruby Rose would provide some context to your critique.
That’s a good idea mate
Looking fwd to the Antares.
Coming soon my friend
Funny that "Excess" is the absolute last thing you'll find on this boat.
Maybe it's for people with Excess money?
True that my friend
Slurms MacKenzie would be partying hard on that Slugoon.
I would really like to hear your opinion of Aventura 44 in the future!
It “is” a Lagoon 40 thru and thru. Every aspect of the interior is exactly the same, including the grab rail that Terysa pointed out going down in the owners hull. And the Excess 15 is a carbon copy of the Lagoon 50.
Lagoon is part of Beneteau group so no surprising its a knock off to offer a sportier version
I'm sure that others have commented but are you going to look at a Amel 54?
Oh we would love to
I have a small Beneteau monohull. Can confirm basic, unloved interior
Excess catamarans are just not charter boats. Where did you get that idea from? Built to a budget and boats that sail really well. The power from the mainsail is phenomenal compared to the Lagoon 40 and 42. It absolutely is a performance cruiser compared to Lagoons.
I think the maverick 440 would be a contender against the Seawind.
You cups be right here mate
You would think Beneteau would throw their best quality work at their first Cat offering.... Thinking you are correct in assuming that this being a Beneteau, the quality should have been thru the roof. Obviously they don't think of Cats the same way they do about Monohulls....
The mind boggles. What must have that meeting been like at Beneteau group HQ where they all sat around and said let's go spend a crap ton of money creating a new brand to what end? "New Coke" anyone? When EXS was first announced I was hopeful that they were going upmarket as I think Lagoon is more in line with Beneteau, so was hoping for a Jeanneau or better cat.
Us too. We had high hopes for this.
Don't understand why nav tables face to the side. When I'm actually navigating or looking at instruments, I find it important to be situated (seated) towards the front of the boat for direction orientation. Its a simplicity thing. When tired, my mind doesn't want to mentally adjust for a 90 degree sitting position. How can sitting sideways be a natural position when moving forward? Like trying to drive a car while sitting on the center console pointed to the side window! :-) And if you want to do a horizon check, you have to stand and turn completely around instead of just standing and looking port and starboard. Seems silly to me.
It’s a fair pint and we don’t get it either. After a few weeks of that you’ll need a chiropractor
I don't get why they are saying the performance is the same as the Lagoon 40. The Excess 12 should preform better, it has more sail area and is lighter. The boom is lower for one thing.
I don’t get the point in the xs series of boats. Why build the same thing, with minor changes and a new name. When I first heard about it. I was really excited thinking it was going to be a performance cat. Even if all they did was a foam core and a larger rig. But they didn’t do anything but add a different option to an existing boat. You’re basically paying almost $50k US more for an extra helm station.
Thanks for the excellent review guys. When first talked about this line was talked of as some sporty game changer and yet the reality is much different it would appear. A well known TH-cam broker - and seemingly nice chap - speaks of them as cruiser/liveaboards. I guess this is because his firm has the onerous job of selling them. Neither fish nor fowl for me and a major faux pas from the world's biggest cat maker. Odd.
oddly enough im actually ok with cheap materials executed well. both my wifey and i are simple people and were actually a bit put off by opulence since that isnt how we were raised were just not used to it. helm position is a non-starter for me. interesting note is that of all the cats you've reviewed this one actually looks like the easiest to refit; a lot of that stuff looks like its off the shelf from a hardware store.
Terysa, Love that hair! 😍
please do the seawind 1260
We definitely will! We're lucky enough to have also scheduled a test sail at Annapolis, so if the weather cooperates we'll also have that to share 😊
Just echoing another comment - your hair looks great - are you going to continue to grow it longer? It also looks darker. 😎🌈👍🍺
Any chance you reviewed the Bali 4.1 beside you?
Did you actually had a price list? The advertising said most sailing gear would be including on these, is that confirmed? Or you did price assumption without these informations? Also a statement about the performance rigging would have been interesting, even though I think the xcs11 will be more interesting
We used the price list provided to us on the day by the broker.
Why would they do *this* as their entrance to the catamaran market? Wouldn't you want to offer more than the current competitors?
I idea mate. No idea
Good looking boat with a box store, or an Ikeel finish
As usual, a brilliant review!
Helm position - On the Outremer et al it makes sense. But, on this ?!?!?!?!? The 'spoiler on a bathtub' comment says it all.
I would love to hear the senior management rationale for this clusterf%&k! Poor design choices, poor build quality, cheap components ... AND competing in a crowded market with no defining USP. It's almost like they gave all the marketing and management trainees/interns ( and non sailors ) free reign to ruin their business.
In comparison to FP and Lagoon I can't see the viewers review marks being very favorable. Even the Neal Trimaran stands a chance of being rated higher !!
it wouldn't stand up to the wear and tear of charters and one would think a company of that sized with umpteen designers could do allot better - would never buy one - maybe a charter for a week - but if i could get a Lagoon on charter i would take that.
Every boat you have reviewed is a production boat, as far as I can tell. Some are more expensive and some are more customisable. They are all assembled on a factory line. I believe that a non-production boat, strictly, is one that has been designed and built only once. In either case, it is not really clear to me what you mean when you refer to ‘production’ boats. Sometimes it seems as though you may mean boats that are designed for charter and other times it seems as though you may just mean the lower end production boats.
I also prefer the Lagoon 40 over this, but I think you may have been a little harsh in your scoring - my guess is that this will be reflected in the outcome from your app - we’ll see.
For example, the build quality looked like a mixed bag, some good and some not so good points. Although I think this boat is not as good value for money as the Lagoon 40, they both should score fairly high in this category compared with the high end production boats. You pay for what you get, it is true, but it is definitely not a linear scale. Almost by definition, a good low end boat, will, hands down, be better value for money than anything else on the new boat market.
Hey mate, we consider production boats to be made on a production line by big manufacturers. They have little room for customisation and normally take 1,000-2,000 hours to build. The production run is normally geared for the charter market and will often run into the 100's
Non production boats are generally built in smaller numbers. They are geared towards owners and take a lot longer to build.
People generally accept that Lagoon, Fountaine Pajot, Leopard and Now Beneteau are production boats.
Other brands like Outremer, Seawind, Xsquisite are non- production. Hope this helps.
Yes, thank you. I think the term, like many others in sailing, may be another one of those moveable feasts. Great content on your channel by the way - and keep up the eloquent expositions (as I prefer to think of them). Great on screen dynamics between the two of you. :)
When do we get to see the Bluewater 50?
It’s next in the series