So good to hear this and to be reminded again of Martin's remarkable story and of the delightful two days I spent with him earlier in the spring! And Mark Vernon is just the right person to bring Owen Barfield into this conversation
I really look forward to Martin’s upcoming conversation with Paul Kingsnorth. Two accomplished authors unexpectedly discovering Christianity, particularly the Ancient Church.
Lovely rich conversation. I am struck by Christ appearing as a stag. I've been reading Iain Crichton Smith's "Deer on the High Hills" (in the Judaic tradition of meditating on a text for a year as a form of mourning) as actual and symbolic deer have been weaving through my life for awhile. I don't know anything much at all about religion in any form, but found this passage vis a vis the poem: "Though the fig tree may not blossom, nor fruit be on the vines; though the labor of the olive may fail, And the fields yield no food; Though the flock may be cut off from the fold, And there be no herd in the stalls---Yet I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation. The Lord God is my strength; He will make my feet like deer's feet, And he will make me walk on my high hills" Habakkuk 3z;17-19 (NKJV)
I have a very similar story in some ways to you Mr Shaw - and I have also had a colourful life - now living in Mexico - though mine was hedonistic and wayward… I’m afraid. No longer!! I am a Christian at 58 yrs old - and would never have imagined this happening… I have been an artist - and a massive lover of the work of Blake since 18 - and poet and painter for much of my time - earning my living as an architect in California. I am from Kent - and I pray I can meet Malcom G someday. Thank you both for a great discussion!.
I've recently come back to christianity too. Something I never thought would happen. But now I'm on the search for a mossy church. It's quite lonely being the only christian witch in the village.
Thank you so much for this incredible conversation! As a so called New Christian myself... conversations and folks such as you both are giving us so much to chew on... so much richness here... so much joyful inspiration... bless both your souls... and the bees!
Thank you for having the conversation and sharing it. I've listened to it all carefully, and was pleased to hear how you are able to discuss what is important. Again you are opening up new panoramas for us.
Thank you for this so much. As a fellow neopagan-turned- Christian, this was much needed to help me find my way. I’ve spent the better part of the last forty years trying to bring together my neopagan side and my Christian side, with varied success. I too, believe Jesus came to fulfill the myths. Others have written of this - I even picked up a tract long ago written by an Evangelical missionary in which he spoke of listening to the myths of peoples he brought the gospel, and seeing how they connected. BTW, not trying to be a worse heretic than I already am, but the WWI dream sounds very like reincarnation memory. I’ve had these memories my whole life, and what to do? There they are. Anyway, for me, reincarnation is a manifestation of God’s infinite mercy. God speed to you both and I will be looking for more of your writing.
For what it’s worth, I’m just a Christian, but I’ve often thought how similar reincarnation aligns with purgatory. It just requires me to buy the idea purgatory happens in this world. That’s not much of a stretch, having lived in this world just a little while. 😊
Wow Martin Shaw! I am so elated to see you talking to an integral person in the Mythopoetic Mens Movement. This is perfect! I miss Robert Bly! I think he would have liked this discussion. Great work!
For the Old Gnostics The Fathers put their trust in the end of the world And they were wrong. The Gnostics were right and not Right. Dragons copulate with their knobby tails. Some somnolent wealth rises unconcerned, Over there! In the world! Ponderous stubborn Sorrow weighs down the flying Gospels. Some enormous obstacle blocks our way. The untempered soul grumbles in empty light. Robert Bly (who I miss too!)
@@cynthiaford6976 Thank you for sharing that! I love this one! I feel Mark Vernon like I feel Bly. Seeing this coming together of Shaw and Vernon bridged that expanse between two great men who have changed my life.
What an excellent talk! You are accurately evoking and discerning phenomenona of the mind that seem almost forgotten and blotted out in our modern world. Very inspiring, thank you!
I'm coming to this conversation a year late. Just recently started watching Mark's channel and am enjoying it immensely. I'm nearly 20 years older than Martin and have had a developing interest in Orthodoxy. Also, what has attracted me is the sense of mystery. The old purely rational, propositional Christianity of which I have been a part is less and less satisfying. Yet, Orthodoxy believes Christianity to be true, and people have died for that truth. Maybe Martin couldn't be argued into the Faith, but many people were, and went to great efforts to convince others. One tendency I see in Orthodoxy is to minimize truth at the expense of experience and mystery. I want to encourage him, and others, not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Experience, mystery, reason and rationality, and doctrinal truth need to be held in balance if Christianity is to remain both true to itself and viable.
Really expansive conversation, especially Blake and other inspirations included, I wonder whether Steiner might add some nourishment for those seeking to deepen into the Mystery of Golgotha. Blessed be !
I have been reading up on Greek Mythology and came across the word 'Euhemerism' as I love logging words and created my own lexicon I added it. The meaning is as follows: Euhemerism is an approach to the interpretation of mythology in which mythological accounts are presumed to have originated from real historical events or personages. So I am a Euhemerist one who holds to euhemerism. Simply because the work of Roger Spurr shows that Giants lived on the Earth in the days of lore. He found them and had them tested and they have come back as having human DNA.
Martin takes very strong issue with Joseph Campbell's assertion that we are not looking for meaning but rather it is experience we seek. He seems to feel the very reverse is true. I am not familiar with Campbell's claim and I don't know the context but, when it comes to evoking meaning and experience, I am left wondering how either of them can be so confident and so seemingly absolute about distinguishing the one from the other. I suppose that's why I am enjoying this dialogue. So much to think about. No. That's not quite right. We have already too much to think about as it is. It is that these strands seem rich and nourishing.
Thank you Mark, for another fascinating & enlightened conversation. I love all your talks with Rupert Sheldrake, and have just recently been enthralled with all Martin has to share. So I was very happy to see this conversation pop up on my feed💖✨
It seems that we Must cultivate and nurture the mystical, intuitive, imaginal aspect of christianity, while asking then, "How then should we live?" ie, the moral, social justice aspect of christianity. you sound a bit one sided as u advocate for a rediscovery of feelings oriented, personal experience christianity. Walter Wink is the master of this balance! Please read, Naming the Powers! Blessings
*quotes Joseph Campbell "He's wrong! He's wrong." Roasted lol Love Campbell as well but it was refreshing to hear someone in this particular corner say that.
This is really about CS Lewis who was pursuaded that his fascination with myth had met his historical sensibilities in the life of Christ. But once you see it once, you start seeing it elsewhere...
Hardly. Did you listen to what was said? This is about Encounter. To be experienced. As in Real. Informing, yet beyond everyday sense bound separation. It is a gift actually.
So good to hear this and to be reminded again of Martin's remarkable story and of the delightful two days I spent with him earlier in the spring! And Mark Vernon is just the right person to bring Owen Barfield into this conversation
You should interview Martin on your TH-cam channel
Also, wonderful to hear you celebrated so beautifully
I really look forward to Martin’s upcoming conversation with Paul Kingsnorth. Two accomplished authors unexpectedly discovering Christianity, particularly the Ancient Church.
When's that happening?
Ooh, when is that?
@@GinnyShilliday Northern Ireland in November
Mark and/or Martin, have you ever considered speaking with Jonathan Pageau? I feel that would be a very fruitful discussion.
I keep mentioning this in Pageau's comment sections 😀
Lovely rich conversation. I am struck by Christ appearing as a stag. I've been reading Iain Crichton Smith's "Deer on the High Hills" (in the Judaic tradition of meditating on a text for a year as a form of mourning) as actual and symbolic deer have been weaving through my life for awhile. I don't know anything much at all about religion in any form, but found this passage vis a vis the poem:
"Though the fig tree may not blossom, nor fruit be on the vines; though the labor of the olive may fail, And the fields yield no food; Though the flock may be cut off from the fold, And there be no herd in the stalls---Yet I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation.
The Lord God is my strength; He will make my feet like deer's feet, And he will make me walk on my high hills" Habakkuk 3z;17-19 (NKJV)
I have a very similar story in some ways to you Mr Shaw - and I have also had a colourful life - now living in Mexico - though mine was hedonistic and wayward… I’m afraid.
No longer!! I am a Christian at 58 yrs old - and would never have imagined this happening…
I have been an artist - and a massive lover of the work of Blake since 18 - and poet and painter for much of my time - earning my living as an architect in California.
I am from Kent - and I pray I can meet Malcom G someday.
Thank you both for a great discussion!.
I've recently come back to christianity too. Something I never thought would happen. But now I'm on the search for a mossy church. It's quite lonely being the only christian witch in the village.
Thank you so much for this incredible conversation! As a so called New Christian myself... conversations and folks such as you both are giving us so much to chew on... so much richness here... so much joyful inspiration... bless both your souls... and the bees!
Thank you for having the conversation and sharing it.
I've listened to it all carefully, and was pleased to hear how you are able to discuss what is important.
Again you are opening up new panoramas for us.
A great story fit for a great writer. Really looking forward to seeing Martin and Paul Kingsnorth at Benburb Priory in November!
Thanks for the talk! It was a talk from Eden. The energy was there with the metaphor!
Thank you for this so much. As a fellow neopagan-turned- Christian, this was much needed to help me find my way. I’ve spent the better part of the last forty years trying to bring together my neopagan side and my Christian side, with varied success. I too, believe Jesus came to fulfill the myths. Others have written of this - I even picked up a tract long ago written by an Evangelical missionary in which he spoke of listening to the myths of peoples he brought the gospel, and seeing how they connected. BTW, not trying to be a worse heretic than I already am, but the WWI dream sounds very like reincarnation memory. I’ve had these memories my whole life, and what to do? There they are. Anyway, for me, reincarnation is a manifestation of God’s infinite mercy. God speed to you both and I will be looking for more of your writing.
For what it’s worth, I’m just a Christian, but I’ve often thought how similar reincarnation aligns with purgatory. It just requires me to buy the idea purgatory happens in this world. That’s not much of a stretch, having lived in this world just a little while. 😊
Wow Martin Shaw! I am so elated to see you talking to an integral person in the Mythopoetic Mens Movement. This is perfect! I miss Robert Bly! I think he would have liked this discussion. Great work!
For the Old Gnostics
The Fathers put their trust in the end of the world
And they were wrong. The Gnostics were right and not
Right. Dragons copulate with their knobby tails.
Some somnolent wealth rises unconcerned,
Over there! In the world! Ponderous stubborn
Sorrow weighs down the flying Gospels.
Some enormous obstacle blocks our way.
The untempered soul grumbles in empty light.
Robert Bly (who I miss too!)
@@cynthiaford6976 Thank you for sharing that! I love this one! I feel Mark Vernon like I feel Bly. Seeing this coming together of Shaw and Vernon bridged that expanse between two great men who have changed my life.
What an excellent talk! You are accurately evoking and discerning phenomenona of the mind that seem almost forgotten and blotted out in our modern world. Very inspiring, thank you!
I'm coming to this conversation a year late. Just recently started watching Mark's channel and am enjoying it immensely.
I'm nearly 20 years older than Martin and have had a developing interest in Orthodoxy. Also, what has attracted me is the sense of mystery. The old purely rational, propositional Christianity of which I have been a part is less and less satisfying.
Yet, Orthodoxy believes Christianity to be true, and people have died for that truth.
Maybe Martin couldn't be argued into the Faith, but many people were, and went to great efforts to convince others.
One tendency I see in Orthodoxy is to minimize truth at the expense of experience and mystery. I want to encourage him, and others, not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Experience, mystery, reason and rationality, and doctrinal truth need to be held in balance if Christianity is to remain both true to itself and viable.
Very true (thanks, from an Orthodox Christian)
Such a beautifully invoking conversation. I’m left with a stirring from within. Thank you
Thanks a lot,-this kind of conversation is not common. Reality shines through experience and knowledge.
That was an amazing introduction for me to the world and mind of Martin Shaw! Thank you so much for this! I will definitely be following the links! 🙏
Really expansive conversation, especially Blake and other inspirations included, I wonder whether Steiner might add some nourishment for those seeking to deepen into the Mystery of Golgotha. Blessed be !
I have been reading up on Greek Mythology and came across the word 'Euhemerism' as I love logging words and created my own lexicon I added it. The meaning is as follows:
Euhemerism is an approach to the interpretation of mythology in which
mythological accounts are presumed to have originated from real historical
events or personages.
So I am a Euhemerist one who holds to euhemerism. Simply because the work of Roger Spurr shows that Giants lived on the Earth in the days of lore. He found them and had them tested and they have come back as having human DNA.
Wonderful conversation. I just love the story of the Peregrini Saint… thank you Martin..
It's always so refreshing to hear from someone so wholesome and well-rounded as Martin Shaw.
I feel like I have been holding a tension for a few years that has been responsible for some of the best things in my life.
Inhabit the time and Genesis of your original Home.
Superb conversation, many thanks.
A superb conversation. Thank you so much to you both.
Jesus as a stag reminds me of the imagery in Song of Songs
Also the story of St Eustathius…
well this is truly marvelous. thank you!
Martin takes very strong issue with Joseph Campbell's assertion that we are not looking for meaning but rather it is experience we seek. He seems to feel the very reverse is true. I am not familiar with Campbell's claim and I don't know the context but, when it comes to evoking meaning and experience, I am left wondering how either of them can be so confident and so seemingly absolute about distinguishing the one from the other. I suppose that's why I am enjoying this dialogue. So much to think about. No. That's not quite right. We have already too much to think about as it is. It is that these strands seem rich and nourishing.
Thank you Mark, for another fascinating & enlightened conversation. I love all your talks with Rupert Sheldrake, and have just recently been enthralled with all Martin has to share. So I was very happy to see this conversation pop up on my feed💖✨
It seems that we Must cultivate and nurture the mystical, intuitive, imaginal aspect of christianity, while asking then, "How then should we live?" ie, the moral, social justice aspect of christianity. you sound a bit one sided as u advocate for a rediscovery of feelings oriented, personal experience christianity. Walter Wink is the master of this balance! Please read, Naming the Powers! Blessings
And as a counterpoint, I'd suggest I Judge No-one by David Lloyd Dusenbury
I love this interview
Thank you both for the warmth of heart and your openness.
48:15 The bees made me laugh, and mad me cry. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this incredible conversation and for sharing your experience Martin.
Such a rich conversation. Thank you so much.
Glory to God! Martin is coming home.
Martin! One of the most genuine come to Jesus testimonies I've ever heard. Welcome to our beautiful mess!
Wow 💕☘
I'll take Natural Law as described by Mark Passio, and 1 Cor. 10 and say "Go fish, be well".
I'm five minutes in and I'm already taking notes. Also, your conversation is helping me understand Kathleen Raine.
O
Delightful
Bursting into tears in public…been there!! 😂🥰
✝️💙
*quotes Joseph Campbell
"He's wrong! He's wrong."
Roasted lol Love Campbell as well but it was refreshing to hear someone in this particular corner say that.
History and myth met at the birth of Christ. Surely not, this happened many times before then
This is really about CS Lewis who was pursuaded that his fascination with myth had met his historical sensibilities in the life of Christ. But once you see it once, you start seeing it elsewhere...
This sums up and seals the Christ-centred world and the world of myth and story as one!! Great talk, thank you!!
💚💛💚
Does Martin go to church?
Yes!
Christianity is fantasy ! Your magic man in the sky. Lol 💩
Hardly. Did you listen to what was said? This is about Encounter.
To be experienced. As in Real.
Informing, yet beyond everyday sense bound separation. It is a gift actually.