It can be disheartening to see how many people are willing to abandon their basic humanity in favor of so-called "critical thinking" and logic, which they seldom if ever use. Emotions, however, are the engine of life. Love, hate, boredom, courage, fear, longing, joy, happiness, despair, desire, hope....these are human and are at the center of our being and, as Jung says about God, "Summoned or not, God will be present." So too with emotions, summoned or not, they will be present because we are human.
A very senior church figure in Australia, when asked recently how often he prayed said this to the journalist: " I don't have time to pray". I had the impression from his words that he hadn't prayed for a long time. He didn't seem to think this fact to be of any import, which told me a lot!
praying to a non existent god is pointless no matter your belief system.. asking the universe is also pointless.. deep meditation only brings the experience of death.. visualising what you want and how it should unfold is more productive ! Any of these activities whilst under the influence of psychedelics amplifies these processes especially while you are in the delta state. If prayer actually worked then the number of people doing this on a daily basis should create a world that is free of war and suffering ! I don't know of any indigenous group that traditionally pray to a god.. they communicate with their ancestors and their local environment !
@@notreally2406 there is nothing wrong with talking to yourself and there is no need for a third party to be responsible for the emotional and or psychological benefits of doing such an act proving the existence of god has yet to be achieved even by the most dedicated and zealous believer and if Rupert was to successfully perform the experiment and everyone could replicate it then maybe I would be convinced.. but this still doesn't justify "communion" with a god.. I think that is being just a little bit selfish
First time my mortality was seriously threatened 20yrs middle east, I instantly went into, yay through I walk through the valley ..I was amazed how quickly this agnostic yielded to the almighty...
I meditate, chant and pray. One of my mantras is Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me....or whoever I'm worried about. My family and I have always prayed to St Anthony, for lost things. I do not pretend to know how this works, but it does; sometimes in the most extraordinary ways. I pray to the Divine Mother, in all her guises. And the Archangels are very good for protection. And St Francis for animals. And my guides for advice. I would say, I close my eyes, calm my mind and have a conversation with them, holding the person or thing I want to pray for, in my mind. When I'm upset or frightened, the 23rd psalm. We all learnt this and the Lord's Prayer, as well as many hymns at school, but they don't anymore. I would say that an attitude of humility, gratitude and surrender are important. Great conversation. thank you both.
Mercy for what? If this omnipotent and omniscient 'god' is letting things collapse and good people suffer constantly, why do we need mercy from him other than recognizing he is malevolent toward humanity at best and demands we be subjugated? If existent, which I doubt immensely. 'He' should ask us for forgiveness for the sorry state of the world, but obviously that would require some measure of doing something which is naturally impossible due to the whole not existing thing. I'm sure all of the unimaginably long list of unjust acts that have happened to good people are accounted for with the typical plattitude of "bro he just wantd you to suffer so you should join his fan club and it's his plan trust the plan" and the nonsense downriver from that, but that's never been a good answer and is merely a cope. Plus you could be picking the wrong horse even if there actually is a stable somewhere, and then it's as good as not picking any horse or recognizing the horses are running a race you lose when they win regardless of which horse it is. The universe is more than capable of destroying me, I will not surrender to it willingly, and I have no gratitude or humility to offer it. I look forward to novel means of coping with my being obviously correct, please stun me.
@@OrgusDin Hello. I used to think a bit like that. I caught hepatitis and nearly died. I had an NDE whilst in hospital. I don't just believe that we are more than this body, I know it - I have seen it. I also realise I can be dismissed as a nut job, and there is no insult you can hurl at me that I haven't already heard. So, probably not worth your time. And it doesn't affect me, as (happily) I don't depend on the approval of others these days. The terms you object to, mercy and surrender are about diminishing the ego as much as possible, as it is a hindrance to spiritual progress. The personification of God is an "easy" mode for us. God is existence and consciousness itself - not a person. I realised after three decades of study and trying to make sense of my experience, that if we are in a state of anger and ego (same thing really) that we block off the very thing we seek, hence the whole kneeling thing that is taught, and the wording of taught prayers. It's there for a reason that I didn't understand. The whole topic of suffering is huge, and there have been libraries written on it. Personally, I agree with the Hindus (and some extent Buddhists) that karma and the concept of cause and effect are somewhat of an answer. I can tell you though, that when you leave this body, the whole shooting match dissipates like the rags of a dream. And all the righteous indignation about how I suffered at the hands of nefarious others, is laughable and dream like. I speak to my guardian, because he has spoken to me. Jesus is a personification of God and easier to talk to than an abstract and the Saints - well all I can tell you is that beings in other realms do exist and will help you if you ask. They won't interfere with free will. There is a lot more, but too much for this platform. And I doubt that you are really interested. But just in case, eh. I do wonder why you're watching a video by Rupert, on prayer. But it's really none of my business. Good luck on your path. I hope you find some peace. I know there's precious little of it in a mind set like I used to have.
@@amanitamuscaria7500 My suffering is irrelevant, I'm talking about people who really suffer and are afforded nothing by your demon 'god', not me. The nightmarish stuff that happens can't be justified by 'he had the free will to be pure evil' to me. It's definitely typical of you to assume I'm the intellectually dishonest one here, other than no I am not interested in your delusions, only things relating back to reality. It doesn't matter what you think the symbolism of your meaningless actions are, I'm demanding an answer from your 'saints' and 'angels' and 'gods' and getting the same answer as always which is none because they don't exist. All cope.
Prayer is an exotic practice in my circle of friends, except for me. I learned most of my meditation practice from Sam Harris' app, which was the beginning of my evolution from atheist to believer. The universe likes its ironies.
Thankyou, great discussion. For many years the mantric prayer of the heart as variously taught by Frs John Main and Bede Griffiths has defined meditation for me. Its only in the last decade that friends at The Way of the Rose introduced me to the informal intimacy that petitionary prayer with the rosary allows. I suppose I'd say that it was only here, after decades of 'contemplative prayer', that I learnt to ask for help and to give thanks for it.
This called “ Centering Prayer” that was brought to the forefront by Fr. Thomas Keating. It was discovered from a book called “ The Cloud of Unknowing” by an unknown author , I believe from 12c. Fr. Keating has written many books on this subject. He was a true saint.
Great chat ! Let me try to add something... I'm Brazilian. We have a lot of syncretism. From African culture to Native American peoples, passing through Christianism and Kardecism. I have experience with Ayahuasca and P. Cubensis. My world view is such that we exist in a "phase domain" and the other realms are in "frequencies domain". An example is a digital image (phase) that can be represented by frequencies via a Fourier Transform. So, our bodies (phase) is connected to our soul (frequencies) via our mind.
I can vividly recall how at the end of each morning assembly in primary school we were all told to bow our heads and mumble the Lord's Prayer, and how it all made literally zero sense to me. In fact like much we did at school it was very off-putting in countless ways. On the other hand, when as a teenager and I went on a fortnight exchange trip to Austria, I came across a little religious ritual that did chime with me. The family I stayed with were not especially religious, except that every evening when we sat down to eat together, we routinely held hands to complete a ring around the table, and then said a very concise form of grace, "gesegnete Mahlzeit", which literally means "blessed mealtime". I didn't actually know what I was saying at all - a bit like mumbling the Lord's Prayer at school - but in spite of the language gap it did make perfect sense in lots of ways. For one thing our little prayer briefly connected us as a social group and put us, if momentarily, on equal footing - adults and children speaking softly in union. And showing humble gratitude for something we were all about to share in felt appropriate and was strangely delightful. Very different from just plonking yourself down in front of the telly! (Which is generally how I still eat my meals today, by the way.)
Prayer and meditation are great practices that work very well in tandem. For secular people trying to escape or detach from their thoughts by meditating, they're missing a valuable practice. Prayer increases the quality of your thoughts and helps to humble your ego.
The spirit of giving, God is Love. The Buddha said; "if you wanna be happy, ya gotta give some happiness away". The Saint Francis prayer is a nice way of establishing the intentions of prayer. Praying only for knowledge and power.
Herbert Benson's Relaxation Response was the door to my meditation practice. (Easiest thing imaginable in terms of basics - free online.) It's taken decades to move my notions of prayer from my American deep south upbringing: the directness in talking to a God who loves us all equally, eternally, immensely and without exception has made all the difference, but i think that's only been possible via my two NDEs. Hope this video is seen by those who haven't yet experienced the effects of prayer. Thank you, gentlemen. 🍃
As a radical monist I am paradoxical. I believe I (my ego) is a social construct. Matter is a way of explaining the persistence of things within waking dream. I have no freedom. I'm a wet robot in the mind of Ultimate Reality. Within these paradoxes life goes on and the dispassionate observer witnesses. Given the above my favorite prayer is Meta: May you happy, may you be healthy, may you be wise, may you be safe, mayvyou be free from suffering. Another form of prayer is gratitude and awareness of the sacredness of the moment. Also as an ex-biochemist I become aware of the miracle of life where all chemical reactions work together to produce a living system. Tat Tuam Asi.
The ancestors are also under employed. I do feel family that's passed on still doing favors for me. It makes me feel a bit guilty because surely there must be other things to do in Heaven or reincarnation opportunities. But it is really appreciated. I normally don't need to pray but just to notice when unlikely synchronicities or coincidences benefit me.
Hello, learned recently from Rupert SheldrKes wife, Jill Purce who does Ancestral Healing, that the Ancestors "job"is to help us to live. So it would be believable that they help us in our daily lives. When I was a child in Ireland there were many sightings of the dead reported and on one occasion my entire family was drawn outside one night by a light swing brightly from the gable end of the house. My Mother said simply "Mary has died". A few days later we got the news via telegram from family in England that Aunt Mary had died. We believed and still do that her spirit came to let us know. No phones in those days. Her light signal to us was out of love.
@@maureenmannion6748 totally. My guide is my maternal grandfather, who passed before I was born. My sister who passed in 2014, came to say goodbye and let us know she'd passed. Sure enough, within 10 minutes, her husband was on the phone saying she'd gone. If we're open to these things, they happen for us.
I was delighted to see this video. Thank you for your inquiries and your discussions! I am a prayer chaplain at my church and have been in a couple of classes in which we learned "positive prayer" and "affirmative prayer" to align ourselves with the divine with regard to our concerns and joys, and ask for outcomes. We often start with denial of the power of our concerns to limit the divine. I have been directed to books; Hypatia Hasbrouck's "Positive Prayer," Ellsworth's "Come Apart for Awhile" as well as various Unity School of Christianity materials. These resources are simple and powerful. Unity has a mystical view of the Divine and keeps a constant prayer vigil. I have long been a meditator but prayer is another world.
"Through prayer we speak to God. In meditation, God speaks to us." Edgar Cayce "Blessings are the spiritual equivalent of breathing in, and prayer is the spiritual equivalent of breathing out." Thom Hartmann “To separate meditation from prayer, reading and contemplation is to falsify our picture of the monastic way of prayer. In proportion as meditation takes on a more contemplative character, we see that it is not only a means to an end, but also has something of the nature of an end. Nothing has ever been said about God that hasn’t already been said better by the wind in the pine trees.” Thomas Merton, Contemplative Prayer "Prayer from the depth and prayer from the surface are two prayers. One can utter what Christ has called 'vain repetitions', just repeating the prayer; one does not fix one's mind on the meaning of the prayer. If the depth of one's heart has heard the prayer, God has heard it." Hazrat Inayat Khan
@@maureenmannion6748 💯% "Trees are the largest and most spiritually advanced plants on Earth. They are constantly in meditation. Subtle energy is their natural language." Mantak Chia ☯
What a beautiful message. Thank you Chuck. I have never heard of the person you quoted but will search him immediately. A group called HeartMath here in California are doing some research on trees communication systems. A good reminder to find out more about that research. When I look at trees from now on it will be with a little more reverence. Thanks again.
You're certainly welcome. @@maureenmannion6748 🥰 "To be grateful is to recognize the Love of God in everything He has given us - and He has given us everything. Every breath we draw is a gift of His love, every moment of existence is a grace, for it brings with it immense graces from Him. Gratitude therefore takes nothing for granted, is never unresponsive, is constantly awakening to new wonder and to praise of the goodness of God. For the grateful person knows that God is good, not by hearsay but by experience. And that is what makes all the difference." Thomas Merton
Dear God, Guide, heal, support, and protect against all who oppose bringing forward the truth of the divine.Bring healing for the darkness in all its forms, to raise up the perpetrators so they stand down and free the tormented. Amen
Always a pleasure to listen to these discussions.. Happy to see initial image by Hilma Af Klint illustrating core Theosophical teaching of the emanation of the Seven Rays from the Absolute at the dawn of 'creation'.. "The ray potentials, when evolved to perfection, will constitute in their harmonious union of differences the full achievement of the Divine plan." James S. Perkins, Visual Meditations on the Universe.
Prayer is learned by praying. The Holy Spirit is the teacher. Everyone is different, thus the conversation/relationship they cultivate with the Creator is unique. The more we pray whole-heartedly the better we get at it.
@@OrgusDin oh I see you are just an angry troll. I rather thought I was wasting my time answering you. But hey. Does it occur to you, that being as rude as you are harms YOU much more than the object of your anger? That negativity is very harmful. Of course, have your opinions - everyone does. But rudeness is unnecessary. And rather juvenile. And you look mature enough to have better manners. It doesn't make you clever - just rather sad.
I agree. We were taught to pray as children. But I didn't understand why the things taught were necessary, and threw them out as I got older. Now I realise why they're taught. The key phrase is "whole-heartedly". Yes, we are all unique and have our own path and relationship to the Divine.
Thank you so much for this wonderful talk. Just as an exercise to please my heart on this Sabbath morning, I write here a few verses from the Qur'an to second what you both said. RE ANGELS' JOB "When revealed your Lord to the angels, 'I am with you, so strengthen those who believed.'"[8:12]. [Also see at 2:30 - 34, 3:125, 7:11, 8:9, 15:30]. "God chooses from the angels (as) messengers, and from the men." [22:75]. "He is the One who sends His support/blessing upon you and His angels so that He may bring you out from the darkness to the light. And He is to the believers Merciful." [33:43]. [Also see at 3:39 (angel to Zechariah), 3:42 (to Mary), 4:172 (to Jesus son of Mary), 33:56 (to Muhammad); 16:2 (in general)]. Note. A fine line between seeking God vs. seeking the angels [even as a mediator]. According to the Qur'an, the Source is God and hence only God must be sought. "And not He will order you that you take the angels and the prophets [as] lords." [3:80]. RE RANKS OF MAN "And He is the One who has made you successors of the earth and raised some of you above others in ranks, so that He may test you in what He has given you." [6:165] "God raises those who believe among you and those who are given the knowledge, in ranks. And God of what you do is All-Aware." [58:11]. WHY PETITIONARY PRAYER IS NOT ALWAYS HEARD In Arabic, the word Ra-de رضى not only means to please but it also means to choose. So the pious [according to the Qur'an] are those who are pleased with what God has chosen for them. "God is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him. That is the great success." [5:119]. HOW TO PRAY Although you will find people arguing in the favour of [citing the Talmud or the Hadith] the institutionalised or ritualistic way of praying [which is fine too], but the truth is there is no mention on how exactly to pray neither in the Torah nor in the Qur'an. [Qur'an 22:26] "And when We designated for Abraham the site of the House (saying), do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who encompass and those who stand and those who bow and those who prostrate." The words "encompass," "stand," "bow," and "prostrate" of course mean what people "do" ie, the rituals [in the mosques, synagogues, churches etc.] but the words are also symbolic, directing those who believe to "establish" the religion of God. ------ Sabbath salam.
Lord, keep us safe this night, secure from all our fears. May Angels guard us, while we sleep - till morning light appears. Amen. This prayer taught by our form Teacher, at age 7. Still say it 60 years later. Thank you, Mr Brown.
A Jewish prospective, if I may. ‘Making prayer real’ a wonderful book by Rabbi Mike Comins. It’s a book that comes at its subject from many angles or perhaps angels. He includes voices of different prayer practitioners. He answers the question he puts, why is prayer difficult and what can we do about it Answering the question he puts, why is prayer and what to do about it.
As a recovering Atheist/Nihilist, new to Christianity, the way I started praying was by saying what I was grateful for. I think gratitude is a good antidote to Nihilism and depression. When I was at my lowest, I believe that forcing myself to think of things to be thankful for was incredibly helpful. I think it gave my brain some relief from the negativity. And when something important is happening in my life, I also ask for guidance with that. I do it last thing before bed and, if nothing else, it stopped my nightmares and anxiety dreams. I think at the very least it somehow helps order your thoughts. But being grateful is the one thing I would recommend to start with. As W.H. Auden said: "Let all your last thinks be thanks."
The Apostolic Johannite Church has an online course called Introduction to Johannite Practice, which is largely about how to pray. I'll include the link in a reply, since TH-cam sometimes censors comments with links in them.
@@OrgusDin it's pretty obvious from your condescending judgements you have a superiority delusion. usually it's a compensation for a massive sense of un met inferiority caused by neglect. I'm sorry you don't love yourself, but there is love for you. too bad you don't have ten minutes to find it. but at least your better than everybody.
@@lunkerjunkie Never heard that one before, this is the stuff I come to religion for, because it has no answers and no entities to interact with in any way. I might as well come for cold takes like this, if I come for anything. The antithesis of experiential spirituality is religious delusion, and at least you can experience the former as something other than a strict pronouncement of mental illness and/or having joined a cult. I'd like to see the guy get off his piece of wood and come put me in my place, just so I could stop hearing about it, but he never does because he's all confirmation bias and wishful thinking of widely distributed brainlets.
This may have already been mentioned but this conversation reminded me of the saying ‘Prayer is talking to God. Meditation is listening for the answer.’
The phrase "Thy Will be done" acknowledges that we have limited understanding of what is good for us. The Divine sees the bigger picture, so to speak, and so some of our petitions may not serve the good overall. My take on that.!!
@@maureenmannion6748 That was a necessary part of the church brainwashing to make you a subjugated pawn of its market forces, has no relation to what divinity is. You couldn't think you could figure anything out on your own because if you did you wouldn't buy their services. All done under duress and emotional manipulation, as all religious everything is.
As a Buddhist I still believe in Angels and Saints. The spiritual communion is large. A saint from Lebanon heals anyone who ask him to help. Muslims ask and get.. Saint Swithin might control the nature spirits
Mr. Sheldrake, I would love to talk with you about how in Santo Daime we evoke and experience the not only the Christian Angels and Saints but from other religions to, namely native American entities as well as African. I have been wanting to participate in one of your researches . Thank you both for a wonderful interview
Thank you Rupert! I would actually see meditation as breathing *out*, aka letting go of the world, and prayer would be breathing in the world into your attention.
I agree with both of you on everything said but I would ask you to add a prayer for the end of foodbanks and to our women put in prison in this civiilsed country.
Fantastic discussion. Loved the story about St. Swithin!!!
It can be disheartening to see how many people are willing to abandon their basic humanity in favor of so-called "critical thinking" and logic, which they seldom if ever use. Emotions, however, are the engine of life. Love, hate, boredom, courage, fear, longing, joy, happiness, despair, desire, hope....these are human and are at the center of our being and, as Jung says about God, "Summoned or not, God will be present." So too with emotions, summoned or not, they will be present because we are human.
God is everywhere - or nowhere, surely. I think everywhere.
@@amanitamuscaria7500 Nowhere, cope.
A very senior church figure in Australia, when asked recently how often he prayed said this to the journalist: " I don't have time to pray". I had the impression from his words that he hadn't prayed for a long time. He didn't seem to think this fact to be of any import, which told me a lot!
Love it. Thank you kindly
What and where is Santo DIme?
praying to a non existent god is pointless no matter your belief system.. asking the universe is also pointless.. deep meditation only brings the experience of death.. visualising what you want and how it should unfold is more productive ! Any of these activities whilst under the influence of psychedelics amplifies these processes especially while you are in the delta state. If prayer actually worked then the number of people doing this on a daily basis should create a world that is free of war and suffering !
I don't know of any indigenous group that traditionally pray to a god.. they communicate with their ancestors and their local environment !
But praying to an existing God is communion.
@@notreally2406 there is nothing wrong with talking to yourself and there is no need for a third party to be responsible for the emotional and or psychological benefits of doing such an act
proving the existence of god has yet to be achieved even by the most dedicated and zealous believer and if Rupert was to successfully perform the experiment and everyone could replicate it then maybe I would be convinced.. but this still doesn't justify "communion" with a god.. I think that is being just a little bit selfish
First time my mortality was seriously threatened 20yrs middle east, I instantly went into, yay through I walk through the valley ..I was amazed how quickly this agnostic yielded to the almighty...
23rd Psalm is my go-to as well. Very powerful.
Harold: Do you pray?
Maude: Pray? No. I communicate.
Harold: With God?
Maude: With LIFE
Great movie.
I meditate, chant and pray. One of my mantras is Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me....or whoever I'm worried about. My family and I have always prayed to St Anthony, for lost things. I do not pretend to know how this works, but it does; sometimes in the most extraordinary ways. I pray to the Divine Mother, in all her guises. And the Archangels are very good for protection. And St Francis for animals. And my guides for advice. I would say, I close my eyes, calm my mind and have a conversation with them, holding the person or thing I want to pray for, in my mind. When I'm upset or frightened, the 23rd psalm. We all learnt this and the Lord's Prayer, as well as many hymns at school, but they don't anymore. I would say that an attitude of humility, gratitude and surrender are important. Great conversation. thank you both.
Ditto re: St Anthony!
Mercy for what? If this omnipotent and omniscient 'god' is letting things collapse and good people suffer constantly, why do we need mercy from him other than recognizing he is malevolent toward humanity at best and demands we be subjugated? If existent, which I doubt immensely. 'He' should ask us for forgiveness for the sorry state of the world, but obviously that would require some measure of doing something which is naturally impossible due to the whole not existing thing. I'm sure all of the unimaginably long list of unjust acts that have happened to good people are accounted for with the typical plattitude of "bro he just wantd you to suffer so you should join his fan club and it's his plan trust the plan" and the nonsense downriver from that, but that's never been a good answer and is merely a cope. Plus you could be picking the wrong horse even if there actually is a stable somewhere, and then it's as good as not picking any horse or recognizing the horses are running a race you lose when they win regardless of which horse it is. The universe is more than capable of destroying me, I will not surrender to it willingly, and I have no gratitude or humility to offer it. I look forward to novel means of coping with my being obviously correct, please stun me.
@elizabethpetersen7635 ah! Good to hear. I bet it's old-fashioned now.
@@OrgusDin Hello. I used to think a bit like that. I caught hepatitis and nearly died. I had an NDE whilst in hospital. I don't just believe that we are more than this body, I know it - I have seen it. I also realise I can be dismissed as a nut job, and there is no insult you can hurl at me that I haven't already heard. So, probably not worth your time. And it doesn't affect me, as (happily) I don't depend on the approval of others these days. The terms you object to, mercy and surrender are about diminishing the ego as much as possible, as it is a hindrance to spiritual progress. The personification of God is an "easy" mode for us. God is existence and consciousness itself - not a person. I realised after three decades of study and trying to make sense of my experience, that if we are in a state of anger and ego (same thing really) that we block off the very thing we seek, hence the whole kneeling thing that is taught, and the wording of taught prayers. It's there for a reason that I didn't understand. The whole topic of suffering is huge, and there have been libraries written on it. Personally, I agree with the Hindus (and some extent Buddhists) that karma and the concept of cause and effect are somewhat of an answer. I can tell you though, that when you leave this body, the whole shooting match dissipates like the rags of a dream. And all the righteous indignation about how I suffered at the hands of nefarious others, is laughable and dream like. I speak to my guardian, because he has spoken to me. Jesus is a personification of God and easier to talk to than an abstract and the Saints - well all I can tell you is that beings in other realms do exist and will help you if you ask. They won't interfere with free will. There is a lot more, but too much for this platform. And I doubt that you are really interested. But just in case, eh. I do wonder why you're watching a video by Rupert, on prayer. But it's really none of my business. Good luck on your path. I hope you find some peace. I know there's precious little of it in a mind set like I used to have.
@@amanitamuscaria7500 My suffering is irrelevant, I'm talking about people who really suffer and are afforded nothing by your demon 'god', not me. The nightmarish stuff that happens can't be justified by 'he had the free will to be pure evil' to me. It's definitely typical of you to assume I'm the intellectually dishonest one here, other than no I am not interested in your delusions, only things relating back to reality. It doesn't matter what you think the symbolism of your meaningless actions are, I'm demanding an answer from your 'saints' and 'angels' and 'gods' and getting the same answer as always which is none because they don't exist. All cope.
Prayer is an exotic practice in my circle of friends, except for me. I learned most of my meditation practice from Sam Harris' app, which was the beginning of my evolution from atheist to believer. The universe likes its ironies.
Thankyou, great discussion. For many years the mantric prayer of the heart as variously taught by Frs John Main and Bede Griffiths has defined meditation for me. Its only in the last decade that friends at The Way of the Rose introduced me to the informal intimacy that petitionary prayer with the rosary allows. I suppose I'd say that it was only here, after decades of 'contemplative prayer', that I learnt to ask for help and to give thanks for it.
Prayer is simple and easy for everyone.
Get on your hands and knees and talk to God with sincerity.
This called “ Centering Prayer” that was brought to the forefront by Fr. Thomas Keating. It was discovered from a book called “ The Cloud of Unknowing” by an unknown author , I believe from 12c. Fr. Keating has written many books on this subject. He was a true saint.
Thanks for the reminder to reread about Keating. Know his Centering Prayer retreats brought people of different faiths together.
Great chat ! Let me try to add something... I'm Brazilian. We have a lot of syncretism. From African culture to Native American peoples, passing through Christianism and Kardecism. I have experience with Ayahuasca and P. Cubensis. My world view is such that we exist in a "phase domain" and the other realms are in "frequencies domain". An example is a digital image (phase) that can be represented by frequencies via a Fourier Transform. So, our bodies (phase) is connected to our soul (frequencies) via our mind.
interesting
Don't know what u mean by Syncretism and Kardecism. Care to explain?
I can vividly recall how at the end of each morning assembly in primary school we were all told to bow our heads and mumble the Lord's Prayer, and how it all made literally zero sense to me. In fact like much we did at school it was very off-putting in countless ways. On the other hand, when as a teenager and I went on a fortnight exchange trip to Austria, I came across a little religious ritual that did chime with me. The family I stayed with were not especially religious, except that every evening when we sat down to eat together, we routinely held hands to complete a ring around the table, and then said a very concise form of grace, "gesegnete Mahlzeit", which literally means "blessed mealtime". I didn't actually know what I was saying at all - a bit like mumbling the Lord's Prayer at school - but in spite of the language gap it did make perfect sense in lots of ways. For one thing our little prayer briefly connected us as a social group and put us, if momentarily, on equal footing - adults and children speaking softly in union. And showing humble gratitude for something we were all about to share in felt appropriate and was strangely delightful. Very different from just plonking yourself down in front of the telly! (Which is generally how I still eat my meals today, by the way.)
Prayer and meditation are great practices that work very well in tandem. For secular people trying to escape or detach from their thoughts by meditating, they're missing a valuable practice. Prayer increases the quality of your thoughts and helps to humble your ego.
We admire and love you mr.Sheldrake
Yes we absolutely & most certainly do! THANK YOU SO SO SO SO SO MUCH MR. SHELDRAKE! TY!!!
Dr Sheldrake*
The spirit of giving, God is Love.
The Buddha said; "if you wanna be happy, ya gotta give some happiness away".
The Saint Francis prayer is a nice way of establishing the intentions of prayer.
Praying only for knowledge and power.
Herbert Benson's Relaxation Response was the door to my meditation practice. (Easiest thing imaginable in terms of basics - free online.)
It's taken decades to move my notions of prayer from my American deep south upbringing: the directness in talking to a God who loves us all equally, eternally, immensely and without exception has made all the difference, but i think that's only been possible via my two NDEs.
Hope this video is seen by those who haven't yet experienced the effects of prayer.
Thank you, gentlemen.
🍃
As a radical monist I am paradoxical. I believe I (my ego) is a social construct. Matter is a way of explaining the persistence of things within waking dream. I have no freedom. I'm a wet robot in the mind of Ultimate Reality.
Within these paradoxes life goes on and the dispassionate observer witnesses.
Given the above my favorite prayer is Meta:
May you happy, may you be healthy, may you be wise, may you be safe, mayvyou be free from suffering.
Another form of prayer is gratitude and awareness of the sacredness of the moment.
Also as an ex-biochemist I become aware of the miracle of life where all chemical reactions work together to produce a living system.
Tat Tuam Asi.
The ancestors are also under employed. I do feel family that's passed on still doing favors for me. It makes me feel a bit guilty because surely there must be other things to do in Heaven or reincarnation opportunities. But it is really appreciated. I normally don't need to pray but just to notice when unlikely synchronicities or coincidences benefit me.
Hello, learned recently from Rupert SheldrKes wife, Jill Purce who does Ancestral Healing, that the Ancestors "job"is to help us to live. So it would be believable that they help us in our daily lives.
When I was a child in Ireland there were many sightings of the dead reported and on one occasion my entire family was drawn outside one night by a light swing brightly from the gable end of the house. My Mother said simply "Mary has died". A few days later we got the news via telegram from family in England that Aunt Mary had died. We believed and still do that her spirit came to let us know. No phones in those days.
Her light signal to us was out of love.
@@maureenmannion6748 totally. My guide is my maternal grandfather, who passed before I was born. My sister who passed in 2014, came to say goodbye and let us know she'd passed. Sure enough, within 10 minutes, her husband was on the phone saying she'd gone. If we're open to these things, they happen for us.
Just realized this was where I heard of the Angel Lady from Ireland. 😅
I was delighted to see this video. Thank you for your inquiries and your discussions!
I am a prayer chaplain at my church and have been in a couple of classes in which we learned "positive prayer" and "affirmative prayer" to align ourselves with the divine with regard to our concerns and joys, and ask for outcomes. We often start with denial of the power of our concerns to limit the divine. I have been directed to books; Hypatia Hasbrouck's "Positive Prayer," Ellsworth's "Come Apart for Awhile" as well as various Unity School of Christianity materials. These resources are simple and powerful. Unity has a mystical view of the Divine and keeps a constant prayer vigil. I have long been a meditator but prayer is another world.
An Attitude of Gratitude & Humility… 🙏
"Through prayer we speak to God. In meditation, God speaks to us."
Edgar Cayce
"Blessings are the spiritual equivalent of breathing in, and prayer is the spiritual equivalent of breathing out."
Thom Hartmann
“To separate meditation from prayer, reading and contemplation is to falsify our picture of the monastic way of prayer. In proportion as meditation takes on a more contemplative character, we see that it is not only a means to an end, but also has something of the nature of an end.
Nothing has ever been said about God that hasn’t already been said better by the wind in the pine trees.”
Thomas Merton, Contemplative Prayer
"Prayer from the depth and prayer from the surface are two prayers. One can utter what Christ has called 'vain repetitions', just repeating the prayer; one does not fix one's mind on the meaning of the prayer. If the depth of one's heart has heard the prayer, God has heard it."
Hazrat Inayat Khan
I love Thomas Merton's comment about nothing having been said about God better than the wind through the pines. He was a beautiful soul.
@@maureenmannion6748 💯%
"Trees are the largest and most spiritually advanced plants on Earth. They are constantly in meditation. Subtle energy is their natural language."
Mantak Chia ☯
What a beautiful message. Thank you Chuck. I have never heard of the person you quoted but will search him immediately.
A group called HeartMath here in California are doing some research on trees communication systems. A good reminder to find out more about that research. When I look at trees from now on it will be with a little more reverence. Thanks again.
You're certainly welcome.
@@maureenmannion6748 🥰
"To be grateful is to recognize the Love of God in everything He has given us - and He has given us everything. Every breath we draw is a gift of His love, every moment of existence is a grace, for it brings with it immense graces from Him. Gratitude therefore takes nothing for granted, is never unresponsive, is constantly awakening to new wonder and to praise of the goodness of God. For the grateful person knows that God is good, not by hearsay but by experience. And that is what makes all the difference."
Thomas Merton
Thank you so much for this! Very beautiful and insightful
Dear God, Guide, heal, support, and protect against all who oppose bringing forward the truth of the divine.Bring healing for the darkness in all its forms, to raise up the perpetrators so they stand down and free the tormented. Amen
Thank you! I am grateful
Always a pleasure to listen to these discussions..
Happy to see initial image by Hilma Af Klint illustrating core Theosophical teaching of the emanation of the Seven Rays from the Absolute at the dawn of 'creation'..
"The ray potentials, when evolved to perfection, will constitute in their harmonious union of differences the full achievement of the Divine plan."
James S. Perkins, Visual Meditations on the Universe.
I have what Krishnamurti called a "religious mind". I wake up awakened into an ocean of air.
Prayer is learned by praying. The Holy Spirit is the teacher. Everyone is different, thus the conversation/relationship they cultivate with the Creator is unique. The more we pray whole-heartedly the better we get at it.
Lol how do you even type this stuff, just baseless unanchored lunacy, at least people on drugs have an excuse.
@@OrgusDin oh I see you are just an angry troll. I rather thought I was wasting my time answering you. But hey. Does it occur to you, that being as rude as you are harms YOU much more than the object of your anger? That negativity is very harmful. Of course, have your opinions - everyone does. But rudeness is unnecessary. And rather juvenile. And you look mature enough to have better manners. It doesn't make you clever - just rather sad.
I agree. We were taught to pray as children. But I didn't understand why the things taught were necessary, and threw them out as I got older. Now I realise why they're taught. The key phrase is "whole-heartedly". Yes, we are all unique and have our own path and relationship to the Divine.
@@amanitamuscaria7500 I have no relationship whatsoever to your delusions or your evil egregore you simp for.
@@OrgusDinI'll pray for you, pray that you come to some conclusion about yourself that you are rejecting.
Thank you so much for this wonderful talk.
Just as an exercise to please my heart on this Sabbath morning, I write here a few verses from the Qur'an to second what you both said.
RE ANGELS' JOB
"When revealed your Lord to the angels, 'I am with you, so strengthen those who believed.'"[8:12].
[Also see at 2:30 - 34, 3:125, 7:11, 8:9, 15:30].
"God chooses from the angels (as) messengers, and from the men." [22:75].
"He is the One who sends His support/blessing upon you and His angels so that He may bring you out from the darkness to the light. And He is to the believers Merciful." [33:43].
[Also see at 3:39 (angel to Zechariah), 3:42 (to Mary), 4:172 (to Jesus son of Mary), 33:56 (to Muhammad); 16:2 (in general)].
Note. A fine line between seeking God vs. seeking the angels [even as a mediator]. According to the Qur'an, the Source is God and hence only God must be sought.
"And not He will order you that you take the angels and the prophets [as] lords." [3:80].
RE RANKS OF MAN
"And He is the One who has made you successors of the earth and raised some of you above others in ranks, so that He may test you in what He has given you." [6:165]
"God raises those who believe among you and those who are given the knowledge, in ranks. And God of what you do is All-Aware." [58:11].
WHY PETITIONARY PRAYER IS NOT ALWAYS HEARD
In Arabic, the word Ra-de رضى not only means to please but it also means to choose. So the pious [according to the Qur'an] are those who are pleased with what God has chosen for them.
"God is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him. That is the great success." [5:119].
HOW TO PRAY
Although you will find people arguing in the favour of [citing the Talmud or the Hadith] the institutionalised or ritualistic way of praying [which is fine too], but the truth is there is no mention on how exactly to pray neither in the Torah nor in the Qur'an.
[Qur'an 22:26] "And when We designated for Abraham the site of the House (saying), do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who encompass and those who stand and those who bow and those who prostrate."
The words "encompass," "stand," "bow," and "prostrate" of course mean what people "do" ie, the rituals [in the mosques, synagogues, churches etc.] but the words are also symbolic, directing those who believe to "establish" the religion of God.
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Sabbath salam.
Lord, keep us safe this night, secure from all our fears. May Angels guard us, while we sleep - till morning light appears. Amen. This prayer taught by our form Teacher, at age 7. Still say it 60 years later. Thank you, Mr Brown.
Beautiful.
Thanks for this wonderful discussion.
A Jewish prospective, if I may. ‘Making prayer real’ a wonderful book by Rabbi Mike Comins. It’s a book that comes at its subject from many angles or perhaps angels. He includes voices of different prayer practitioners. He answers the question he puts, why is prayer difficult and what can we do about it Answering the question he puts, why is prayer and what to do about it.
As a recovering Atheist/Nihilist, new to Christianity, the way I started praying was by saying what I was grateful for. I think gratitude is a good antidote to Nihilism and depression. When I was at my lowest, I believe that forcing myself to think of things to be thankful for was incredibly helpful. I think it gave my brain some relief from the negativity.
And when something important is happening in my life, I also ask for guidance with that.
I do it last thing before bed and, if nothing else, it stopped my nightmares and anxiety dreams. I think at the very least it somehow helps order your thoughts.
But being grateful is the one thing I would recommend to start with.
As W.H. Auden said:
"Let all your last thinks be thanks."
Great topic and exactly the people I'd most like to hear from!
The Apostolic Johannite Church has an online course called Introduction to Johannite Practice, which is largely about how to pray. I'll include the link in a reply, since TH-cam sometimes censors comments with links in them.
Great conversation - Important topic!
So,
What were the 4 types that your fellah said yous might be mentioning?
Thanks in advance
I learned real prayer when I followed this advice:
pray until you run out of words, then go ten more minutes.
just saved myself 10+ minutes
@@OrgusDin do you think you are better than us because of what you believe?
@@lunkerjunkie I do, yes. I always have.
@@OrgusDin it's pretty obvious from your condescending judgements you have a superiority delusion. usually it's a compensation for a massive sense of un met inferiority caused by neglect. I'm sorry you don't love yourself, but there is love for you.
too bad you don't have ten minutes to find it.
but at least your better than everybody.
@@lunkerjunkie Never heard that one before, this is the stuff I come to religion for, because it has no answers and no entities to interact with in any way. I might as well come for cold takes like this, if I come for anything. The antithesis of experiential spirituality is religious delusion, and at least you can experience the former as something other than a strict pronouncement of mental illness and/or having joined a cult. I'd like to see the guy get off his piece of wood and come put me in my place, just so I could stop hearing about it, but he never does because he's all confirmation bias and wishful thinking of widely distributed brainlets.
You must be born again. Repent and trust Christ, the son of the Living God, prince and author of life. ❤
Qué pena que sea todo en Inglés. Tendría muchísimo interés en países de habla hispara
Ardent meditators , Dzogchen Masters and such pray.
This may have already been mentioned but this conversation reminded me of the saying ‘Prayer is talking to God. Meditation is listening for the answer.’
When I ask for healing with petitionary prayer, the healing asked for is of the mind and sometimes the body may follow, sometimes not
The phrase "Thy Will be done" acknowledges that we have limited understanding of what is good for us. The Divine sees the bigger picture, so to speak, and so some of our petitions may not serve the good overall. My take on that.!!
@@maureenmannion6748 exactly! The idea of surrender is very important here.
@@maureenmannion6748 That was a necessary part of the church brainwashing to make you a subjugated pawn of its market forces, has no relation to what divinity is. You couldn't think you could figure anything out on your own because if you did you wouldn't buy their services. All done under duress and emotional manipulation, as all religious everything is.
Gordon White , rune soup has a great course
It seem like the stigma of Christianity is deep in the west
As a Buddhist I still believe in Angels and Saints. The spiritual communion is large. A saint from Lebanon heals anyone who ask him to help. Muslims ask and get.. Saint Swithin might control the nature spirits
Mr. Sheldrake, I would love to talk with you about how in Santo Daime we evoke and experience the not only the Christian Angels and Saints but from other religions to, namely native American entities as well as African. I have been wanting to participate in one of your researches . Thank you both for a wonderful interview
Thankyou. Lovely.
Thank you Rupert!
I would actually see meditation as breathing *out*, aka letting go of the world, and prayer would be breathing in the world into your attention.
Thank you both for the gentle reminder of requesting support from angels and saints.
I agree with both of you on everything said but I would ask you to add a prayer for the end of foodbanks and to our women put in prison in this civiilsed country.
Love you!
❤❤❤
Hello from Virginia my friend 🇺🇸
it would help to explain what is meditation
there are hundreds of meditation channels on this topic. The internet is knee-deep in such information.
Sitting around doing nothing, getting nothing done, while being smug about it.
@@OrgusDin spot on !
Thank you gentlemen
teach them how to get in an alpha predominance state so the mind is receptive and programmable
❤
How hard is it to talk to yourself?
😅 I'm not an aetheist but 😅
Great comment! Perhaps elaborate on this commend.
Did you ever get to read the essay from TLowe? Pam Smart says she received it, just wondering if Mr Sheldrake has taken a look.