Treggles, I specifically told you that body pillow was a PRIVATE merch drop. I am only forgiving you of this careless mistake for making an absolute banger video, so well done.
I think there is an even bigger problem with medic in that his bad weapons aren't even fun. I can equip a bad weapon on other classes and still have a good time messing around with a new playstyle, but on medic you just do the exact same stuff with bad weapons, only worse. Its probably why people like the amputator, it atleast feels like there is something slightly different you can do.
Exactly. Why would I give up the ability to not only style on my opponents but also the ability to fully heal someone from across the map for extra movement speed that 90℅ of the time I can't take advantage of?
The best part about the crossbow isn't the burst healing, no no... its the ability to duel snipers! I fucking love dueling snipers and then taunting after I kill them from half way across the map
Despite being my favourite class, medic does indeed suffer from "The Meta" the hardest in this game we call Team Fortress Two. I almost wish that the Syringe guns had higher velocity, and were thus more accurate. Because sometimes, ze healing does not feel as rewarding as ze hurting. Plus I desperately want to be able to do something about my hapless, utterly useless and brain-deficient teammates not being observant enough to defend their main source of healing, that of which is holding the team together, from a single scout or spy.
Honestly, that's the biggest issue with the syringe guns. If you increased their velocity, you wouldn't have to aim at the skybox to hit someone 5 feet away.
I personally like the Overdose because "Motherfucking Max Severed Head Scout with a lime unu in my face again fellas" type of moments where all you can do is pray your team uses their view mechanics or you can kill the scout somehow.
My answer to that is to not play medic so seriously. I'm being serious when I say, the most fun I've had as medic is when I join a game where people are using weird gimmicks or stacking classes for the hell of it. Normally the other team would end up crushing the gimmicky goons on ours, but supporting them as a medic and watching the ridiculousness continue on is one of my favorite feelings in this game. I understand this video and it's comments are probably more focused on competitive TF2 than non-competitive... but I don't want to see medic or any other class be changed in a way to make these moments less special.
Honestly, the amputator is more of a tool for psyche than math. It's not mathematically an improvement in many circumstances, but the two main benefits for me are: •No reward for getting melee hits means that I feel no obligation to melee attack anything I don't have to •Ease of use in crowds of players Melee fights are a gamble with your life, The amputator makes that gamble so much less tempting. As for the taunt, you know how players feel, waiting for you to heal as you keep missing your crossbow? Sometimes you're missing the crossbow because a crowd keeps absorbing your bolts, and there's only two people in that crowd that actually need heals. You can use the amputator taunt to ensure that the players get some amount of healing as soon as possible, and your teammates can't get in the way of eachother's healing. It's not so much about mathmatical efficacy as it is about ensuring that nobody runs away.
@@Treggles IMHO the amputator is being used wrong. Its good for helping pushes where you can't reliably shoot crossbow nonstop, and can't advance FORWARDS, but are fine where you are.
I really like using it on KOTH. You don't have to worry about getting picked off when you just wiped out the entire enemy team, and you have to stand still on the point anyway.
@@eeeguba432 healing already doubles your passive health regen(which is better than the amputator), so it's better to heal a teammate than to pull out your amputator (if you have nearby hurt teammates)
Genuinely Medic plays like if Engie had the Rescue Ranger and nothing but variations of the Pomson in his primary slot and whenever you complain about being railroaded into using the RR at all times people just tell you "Engie's supposed to make buildings, he's not supposed to fight"
"Genuinely Scout plays like if engie had the shotgun and nothing but variatons of the pomson in his primary slot and whenever you complain about being railroaded into using the SG at all times people just tell you "Engie's supposed to fight, he's not supposed to only make buildings"
Weapon rework idea: Cozy Camper since sniper class is listed as "support" you can make the cozy camper work as a banner item like soldier's. sniper charges a bar by hitting headshots (maybe like 20% for a headshot but i leave balancing for people who know more about game design) when the meter is fully charged sniper can use the item to spawn a campfire that would work kinda like a dispencer but only with healing(campfire automatically breaks after some time)
yeah that could be pretty good, and it would encourage snipers to do the exact opposite of what it does now ironically enough, instead of camping, it would encourage play around their teammates
Other things: The Provision Provider, an engineer secondary which functions as a mobile dispenser on his back. People with a the same radius as gas passer get healing and ammunition. Engie gets passive healing but no ammunition, but does get a slight increase in health. The downsides are he can't build dispensers and becomes as slow as soldier. Mad Milk Jug: Secondary for scout which charges the same as gas passer and with the same radius. Upon thrown enemies in it get mad milked as normal, but teammates going through the cloud get passive healing for a but, so thia could also be used to heal teammates.
@@Treggles all I'm saying is: of course the amputator is going to look bad if you're only using it most of the time. Anyone can make an "Ubersaw bad" bit by just running at the enemy team swinging. While the Ubersaw depends on the enemy team being bad the amputator depends on your team being good.
@@dombelly3343 Nah you missed the point of that section. It WASN'T cherry-picking examples of where it is bad, it is instead showing how infrequently useful it is, how niche the scenario is for it to BE useful. I am trying to demonstrate every instance where it COULD be useful, and usually, it isn't. Nearly every time you use the Ubersaw, it is massively effective. No where did I say it's NEVER useful, it's just that it is so rare that switching out for it over the Ubersaw is objectively a downgrade. This is what I am proposing is part of the reason the medic is flawed - there is so little variety before you're just instantly gimping your abilities
I mean after playing other hero shooters shaped after TF2 it might seem not "unique enough". There is a reason why the game outlasted literally everything that came after it. Maining Medic requires a different mindset as you're trying to save the other 8 people on your team while the other 8 people on the enemy team want to kill you. I really appreciate how you're trying to point out that in the end there is only one true way to play Medic, but for me, that "Thanks" voice command when you heal someone is enough of a reward.
yes but in thag best case scenario for the amputater you forgot your giving the best case scenario for crossbow and quick-fix too. remember that people move and hitting 4 crossbow shots in a row is basically impossible but when you see a medic with a glowy orb around him, you know to stand still
It's refreshing to see someone giving a deep-dive into the unlocks of TF2 without devolving into a reciting of the entire wiki. That video is some cool shit.
I think I recall the main issue for the overdose is updates, that being originally matching your heal target's speed was solely a quick fix bonus, and the overdose came out before that buff was on all mediguns. So really it was a case of 'it was balanced until other things got buffed'
Maybe buff it so now either you passively have 10% more movement speed at all times even when not held out (you get faster with it equipped) or buff it so now the cap for speed is even higher, maybe 5% slower than a scout.
I honestly can't help but reflect on how common other syringe guns would be if they _also_ could be used to heal teamates. Idk if that solution would do much, but it'd at least be interesting
depends on how much the heal is, but i think its bad design because you are competing for uptime with the medigun to do the same thing crossbow doesn't because it doesn't require much uptime (having the weapon out for long periods of time to do stuff) what you could do to address that though is give syringes a heal over time on hit so you can shoot a few teamates to start healing them then switch back to medigun immedietely and combine the effects, this makes it better for healing multiple targets but worse for burst healing and avoids the problems i brought up before
The projectile speed is the actual issue. Syringe guns have a max range of about ten feet before it's more about your enemy letting themselves be hit than it is about hitting them. It's like you're only possibly able to put in half the effort to get them killed and they actively have to give you the other half, much like how you can clear a Mario level in half an A press by taking the other half from somewhere else in a full game run. (I apologize.)
maybe a medigun that disable your ability to manually heal but be able to build uber with damage or healing using your primary or secondary. The uber charge would be like the vaccinator where you would have 4 charges, each charge throwing out a orb that does a burst of healing and gives increased over heal.
I also think it’s important to state that the amputator taunt gives you less control over your healing. You sometimes don’t need to heal a scout because they can run/jump quickly to a health pack, but a heavy/soldier may need it really quickly, which you can dish in higher doses using medigun/crossbow
amputator works extremely well on dustbowl imo because of how choke point heavy the map is and how long it takes for either team to make any progress especially the first point of stage 3 if you're on defense
Overdose is easily the second best primary for Medic in my experience. Helps me reach teammates faster and get out of situations alive (believe it or not just because you aren't walking into dangerous situations at high uber doesn't mean a situation can't become dangerous when you don't expect). Granted, it is best used with the Quick Fix for its very high uber rate meaning you get the speed boost fast and if you are REALLY in a bad situation, you can pop the uber to heal to full real quick and then sprint away because the Overdose speed boost doesn't decrease until you switch back to the medigun. Solemn vow is also a good melee, especially if the enemies aren't dumb enough to walk in your melee range.
I feel like it’s be cool if the vita-saw worked like the eyelander, except it just gave you more max health, allowing for better survivability on your end, perhaps it could even give a slight damage increase to your primary as well
That actually sounds pretty cool as a potential Battle Med option. Just give it one notable downside that isn’t negated by the health increase, like maybe slower Uber build or heal rate to promote the less support-centered play style, and then that’d actually be a pretty interesting melee to use.
@@jblazerndrowzy you know I think they were initially trying to make the clinical trial item set into a sort of battle medic but it never really picked up. With the faster movement and heal speed alongside being able to see enemy health. If item sets bonuses were ever to return in some form, I could definitely see the clinical trial giving medic some combat prowess, that and a change to how item sets worked but that’s a whole other tangent.
I do love the Amputator solely because it's saved me from afterburn damage a few times. Better to stay alive than to die and take time to respawn, y'know? But it's like you said, extremely situational. I don't utilize melee a lot as I'm definitely more of a dedicated healer. Chances are if melee is out, I accidentally switched from my primary or medigun. That's why I use Amputator, I don't utilize the melee to have the Ubersaw upside be useful. I plan to replace and try a Vitasaw instead of my Amputator when I try it too, since it's a passive buff for something I very rarely pull out.
im surprised you didnt talk about the bonesaw, which i think is either the best or second best melee weapon. you might think that the ubersaws -20% isnt that impactful but not having a slower firing speed is crucial for medics melee, especially as a last resort (or as a combat medic). i do prefer the ubersaw when im using the default medgun. however with the krietzkrieg and the vaccinator having faster build-ups the bonesaw becomes the better option in my opinion.
meh. i like the amputator more with teammates i can trust. when i don't have to worry too much about getting in melee range of anything i'd rather just have the nifty group heal by standby. can be amazing on koth or payload where teammates are holding spots or falling back.
Your channel is so underrated, especially considering the editing quality and well constructed arguments in general, I hope the algorithm decides to notice you more! Great video.
As someone who really likes the amputator... yeah it sucks. The damage penalty comes to bite you quite often and the increased regen when held is almost never useful outside of being on exceptionally low health with afterburn/bleed, in other cases its just better to continue medigun and crossbow healing. You really do have to use the taunt so conservatively to not get yourself decked that most rounds you bring it into, you wont even get good use out of the taunt, if using it at all! The one point it has at least is ease of use for group healing - but even then, usually if everyone is hurt in such a location a popular location, a dispenser can do the area healing just fine and supplement your own healing. In the 0.2% of situations the amputator works, it really, really works, but the other 99.8% of the time, it really just doesn't have a reason to be in your melee slot What pains me is, i dunno how one would properly fix/change the amputator without different problems arising. Maybe it could have a meter which is drained on taunt, and the more of the meter is drained, the better the taunt (e.g. bigger aoe, maybe slight damage resistance)? It might just end up feeling like some awkward discount ubercharge, though Ramblings aside, good video! Pretty well encapsulates the position medic is in. I also had never thought about the vitasaw in the way you compared it to the ubersaw (in part because I just don't think about the vitasaw at all lmao)
I sometimes wonder if it would be too OP if you could taunt cancel (maybe after at least 2 sec?) the Amputator, then the vulnerability to Spys jumping out of the woodwork to stab you would be less harsh
My fix for the Amputator would be to just let it give Overheal. Maybe at 50-75% of regular speed, and/or give it a overheal limit like the Quick-Fix. That way you're not waiting for a bunch of hurt players to use the taunt, and can inform players ahead of time that you're now a Rally Point/Dispenser so they don't run off in the other direction when they see you busy with healing another person. That, or make the heal instant the moment you taunt and not 1-2 seconds after it started. So even if you died a few seconds into the taunt you would've given a good amount of health. Or just make the taunt self heal the Medic like the Kritzkriege. You do have to give up free Uber charge or the ability to see enemy HP so I say that's a fair trade off.
I do think the self healing on the amputator is a bit overlooked for a lot of situations. Most players follow the strategy of "Get the medic first" which is fair, but means the medic is very often going to be taking damage. If your team is still doing fine and the enemy attention is on the medic, the self healing can buy those few extra seconds to keep the medic alive without having to waste Uber. Where I find this most helpful however is when using the crossbow as that keeps the medic at a safe distance. Chip damage can be healed from much quicker allowing the medic to go back to supporting his team quicker. Also I suck with melee and don't trust the hit registration one bit so bonus Uber on hit one time a game just doesn't stack up to double passive healing.
one of the saddest thing as a pocket soldier in casual is staring at ur medic slowly healing you from 20 health to full and while he is doing that u stare at him and press the inspect button and realise his ass is running the blutsauger and not the cross bow X__X
@@The24thWight True. In casual servers you can't be sure if your pocket is going to protect you or anything, or even if your team is going to bother protecting you at all. At least the blutsauger is a good self defense weapon.
I think the Medic HAS to be bad at head-to-head combat, because of his strong support. He is designed to rely on his teammates protection, and in exchange, he helps them, therefore rewarding them for their protection. As a contrast, Engineer is not designed to support one person at a time. He supports the team a a whole, and because there is no direct „benefit“ to protecting an Engie Nest (other than common courtesy), he is equipped with means of self defense, the shotgun and pistol.
Thinking about this, maybe it would be interesting to give spy some more diversification as all of his unlocks are basically the same playstyle. Perhaps you could have something like the icicle knife but can be used on team mates, perhaps a vial or actual syringe? Once used it would give a buff or heals and then have to recharge. It would be a great addition to gun spy I feel and would solidify his role as a more unique and interesting character.
nicely done vid , i love to play Med even if im not a Med Main, i think the "Neuron activation" when ppl play Med is watching ur patient destroying an entire team, of course that may not happen, but when in happens is a lot of fun
I'm a medic main but one gripe I have with the class is lack of weapon variety. The only real good weapons are the Crossbow and the Ubersaw, or Amputator if you're not feeling lucky at 2Fort. Beyond that, you get to choose between 4 different mediguns that do a similar thing. It sucks because people come up with these great concepts that could really shake up the meta but Valve doesn't seem to care. I'd like to say they're too busy fixing the bot problem but it's too optimistic for me. I still like him because he plays a vital role in whether the team wins or loses. It's a natural fit because why spend so many hours practicing at tr_walkway every day when I can hop in, heal my teammates and have them shoot the bad guys for me?
Tried using stock syringes yesterday. It was. Not very fun. I remember I used to know how to use it but ultimately it just wasn't worth it. As for the Ubersaw. Which I am sure you'll mention. I just don't like how it makes the entire game about uber. It causes this obsession with the charge that makes playing with serious medics quite annoying particularly if you were playing medic yourself.
I want a rythm based aoe drum kit, so you heal through music, like what the amputator want to be an ubering would be as effective since you're providing more health. Maybe like a small dmg resistance, speed boost, and dmg buff. Something along the lines of the game BPM I'd say you would do you're best to hit notes while being mid battle. It would also make the music of TF2 a more active part of the game as I feel like it isn't used actively in the game and more so on promotional pieces and the lobby.
I specifically *avoid* the Meta. I don't use the Crossbow much. I stick with the Overdose, Blutsauger if I want to go ham, Syringe Gun if I need self defence. I use whatever medi-gun my team needs, whenever. I mostly try not to stack on the same medi gun. My melee is almost always the amputator, though sometimes I go insane with the bonesaw, or use the solemn vow for information. Vita Saw if I can get lucky hits in.
Amazing video man, I was M A N I C the milked engie and taunting soldier. Originally I was gonna skip to me but your video really hooked me! Good stuff mate
If you keep on making videos like this you will easily make it as a sawed after tf2 youtuber, you already are in our eyes (SpyTiCole, I made a new account named spy for yt content creation)
In 5:53, I couldn't agree more. The sheer damage of explosives will completely destroy you before you could heal yourself, even if it was all splash damage. The taunt from the Amputator suffers from that also, as you've said, teammates get deadly damaged in mere milliseconds. I strongly agree that Valve could think about other alternative weapons so the other classes can give more support - even creating new sub-classes, who knows? I feel like playing medic is cool, I am used to the support hole from other games I've played. But it can get rather boring indeed. The time to kill issue is more towards the classes that won't do massive damage in one go - such as Scout or Pyro. However, I do feel like those two are constantly overshadowed in "sweaty casual" modes, as most of the high level players - that just want to stomp the enemy team - use power classes, so I think theres a lot of room for discussion on that. However, I've never had issues with the Vaccinator - It is a great counter for a team full of demos-spam and Soldiers that will just splash you to death. I do main Pyro, but when I see a Vaccinator, I just change my secondary from the Detonator to the regular shotgun. I feel like the Vacc is more of a weapon made to force the enemy team to deal damage from different sources, and I'm all up for that. The only thing about medic that truly gets me mad is the overhealing mecanic. It is a nice idea, helping some classes to withstand more damage, but the way that "Pocket Healing" doesn't get any drawback to both Medic and "Pocketed" just feels wrong. It is so common to enter a mixed lobby with red team being stomped, while blue has 2 players with 70+ points and the rest is on their 20-ish. It's so easy to make a Heavy become a "mini boss", as it gets to do massive damage via 'random crits" and won't ever die (only to backstabs and completely fully charged headshots, but that seems rather impossible when the russian guy does that much damage).
I think that Medic needs some attention to not only does he have some minimal amounts of weapons in his disposal The devs should accept the workshop weapons for Medic that should really benefit the class & undoubtedly would be a big improvement for the Medic
It would be interesting if amputator's altfire worked the same way as soldier's banners, but instead of the heal-on-hit buff you have the heal overtime buff (similar to the overheal+ubercharge spell in halloween) and it takes a portion of your uber (i'm not sure so i'm just using X% instead)
The syringe guns are an SMG with 40 bullets if you use them well, as a syringe gun enjoyer I find myself *switching to blutsauger, overdose or even stock* just to keep up my survivability against flanking classes It doesn't matter if a medic can heal 400 health in 10 seconds if he only lives for 15 seconds
The unsung hero of a timeless game - A class who can break the stalemate of a stagnant fight, at the burden of seeing a red cross icon on everyone. Those who main medic I dont know how you do it, but keep fighting the good fight
what makes the amputator even worse is that medic's regen is DOUBLED when healing a hurt teammate with their medigun, which incentivises medics to heal with their medigun when hurt instead of burst healing with the crossbow or... pulling out the amputator also imo the solemn vow is the safest and most consistent melee option. its unique in that its upside (of seeing enemy health) is ALWAYS useful, regardless of whether you make a swing at an enemy, or bothered to use the amputator. getting into melee range with an enemy as medic is rare, so it's not guaranteed that you hit someone with the ubersaw. it's a great option for medics to know their limits and not rush into 5 enemies to get le funny +25% uber
Medic main form Asia here Practical solution for medic without adding a new support class and/or new medic weapons. All Syringe guns: heals teammates on hit: more healing than crossbow if all shots connect. This should be balanced out by the innate inaccuracy and sort range of all of these. If even this buff isn't enough increases velocity and make them reload on stow. Amputator: CAN MOVE WHILE TAUNTING. Vita saw: +15% uber when hitting on enemy AND 15% uber stored in case of death (up to 60%). This would make it more a conservative Ubersaw. A safer but less rewarding alternative, not a downgrade. Quick fix: The player can toggle the 'mirror patient's movement' mechanic On and Off with the R key & no flashing penalty for Ubercharge I agree that other support-style classes need to get buffs and new item regarding healing to lessen the burden of the medic. Also, I said I wouldn't include new medic weapons, but to break the staleness of the medic I think we need at least one. My idea: THE REVIVER: A medi gun that performs the MVM revive on teammates with its Ubercharge. Can revive multiple teammates if used at the right place and time but is balanced out by having no benefits for the medic himself (like the kritzkrieg) while ubering and having a small downside like -20% heal rate.
something i'm surprised you didn't mention since you ranted so much about the amputator is the fact that the extra passive healing is even more niche than it sounds like it would be problematic enough if it was simply that you had to pull it out to get the extra healing, but medic's passive healing doubles while you heal someone with the medigun, so 3-6 depending on how long it's been since you got hurt so realistically it only matters if you have no teammates around you
i don't even think it's about unlocks, moreso the fact that TF2 is a first person SHOOTER based around dealing damage, and medic doesn't shoot or deal damage, so he's fundamentally just boring to play. it's that simple. he's also reliant on his teammates to an extent that no other class even comes close to, which just makes him even worse to play, and fundamentally at odds with tf2's design as a single player multiplayer game.
8:32 I sometimes like to play games with bots using default weapons, and whenever I play Medic I go through at least 1 situation each game where I accidentally pull out my syringe gun as if it was the crossbow
I dont think most of medics primarys and melees suck, the crossbow and ubersaw are overpowerd so I refuse to use the crossbow and ubersaw on medic no mather what.
I think you using amputator wrong In the clips you just spam it even if your teammets are far away You supposed to use it once or twice with you back against the wall and close to the Group of People who are staying in one place (for example: chokepoint) Bdw: some tips for amputator: -for killing 125 healt classes, you can just shoot the crossbow and then hit them twice (instead of three Times) -If you hold the amputator and you go to +6 regen, you can pull your primary and quikly back to melle to go straight into +9 So thats all sorry for bad English, despise the leght of the comment I agree with most of your opinions and I See how much and fast you are improving KEEP IT UP!
I feared this would be the take of the amputator compilation. I put this to you: I was forcing myself to use it at every turn in order to FIND situations where it would work well. I wasn't trying to show that I was using it correctly and it wasn't working. I was showing that these supposed "best case scenarios" happen so rarely that it is not worth using. A best case scenario should appear OFTEN if you are academically forcing yourself to use the taunt, but the fact is they just don't.
the thing about the amputator's taunt is that there isnt a cap on the teammates you can heal if you're playing casual, theres enough people around you that it's faster 50% of the time to just use the taunt and get them up to full, or at least to a reasonable number of health if you're playing highlander, your team will likely be around you a lot of the time, making you vulnerable to splash damage. instead of having to individually heal all your teammates, you can pull out the amputator and get them all up to full in around 4 seconds if you're playing 6s, yeah its pretty bad even using the taunt once is good for healing. it'll get your team up to a level they wont get 1 shot by 7/9 classes, and 4 seconds isnt a very long time. most of you complaints about it seem to stem from using it _during_ team fights, in which it's a very poor choice a majority of the time. amputator shines when your team retreats, or has just won the fight. yes. its not better than the ubersaw. ubersaw is better. however, what you're implying is that it's so much worse than the ubersaw, that you _cant_ pick it seriously. nothing and no-one is holding you at gunpoint to make you pick ubersaw. pick amputator if you _like_ using it. pick vita-saw if you _like_ using it. pick blutsauger if you _like_ using it. if you want to be consistantly effective, make a team of all snipers, then headshot everyone on the enemy team when they round the corner. - #1 amputator stan
I’d give the crossbow the equalizer treatment where the damage and healing side of the crossbow are split into separate weapons, so you actually have to commit to sacrificing survivability for better healing potential
Having a 2nd Crossbow being a dmg dealer with 0 support applications takes out the coolest and medic part of the crossbow. Like when's the last time you've seen Equalizer user and compare that to the Escape Plan.
did you use a toy story 2 clip and then add a fucking source in the bottom left as if there were a human on this earth who watches this channel who doesnt know what toy story 2 is
@@Sageknot Haha all good. TH-cam flagged me for "reused content" the last time I tried to apply to the partner program, so I'm extremely wary of using even short and often completely transformed clips without sourcing them, no matter how popular they are. I don't want to give them any BS excuse to hit me with "reused content" again
I personally hardly play as medic, but when I do, I use the Overdose, Quick Fix and Amputator, but mostly when there's already another medic with the stock medigun, since usually they pocket one player, so I am mostly the one that helps keep the team alive while they are the one that help push the objective
I main medic and I use the amputator cuz 1. I don't wanna go around the map trying to get a health pack, 2. I don't really use uber much, cuz I focus more on healing people on low health and 3. if you're in a situation where you need to fight and you're in a tight space, you should always use your crossbow, so the low damage thing doesn't really matter, not to mention the fact like 1/3rd of the time the amputator crits, so it's best to leave melees as a finisher basically
i find it quite satisfying yet challenging to play medic, he is one of my favourite classes to play and feels very rewarding to do so. i really dont get how people dont like playing medic
I really did not understand this video. I guess the argument is that most medic's unlocks are bad and that playing medic is boring and stale. Seems like that has been the case since Crossbow was released back in 2010. And i don't understand the rant about the Amputator. Healing is not even Medic's strongest ability, it's uber. Healing is useless if you can't push through a sentry nest or a chokepoint. These days most classes have a way to sustain themselves without a medic, but you really can't replace uber.
"Healing is not even Medic's strongest ability, it's uber." If this is your understanding, then you did understand the video. The amputator is useless because it only heals (and does it poorly). Ubersaw is god tier because it gives uber. And this has been this way for a long time, hence why the Medic is ultimately flawed. Seems like you got it!
1:26 For me its generally because the people I heal might not be the brightest, it can get annoying even though it's just a video game. Usually pushing the cart is easier provided your team actually do push the cart, a close by central location to easily support
Think of it as a bit of an investment. You heal and even pocket a few players (NOT just the already really good ones); at first they struggle but over time they get better thanks to your overheals and ubers
they haven't heard of the quick-fix amputator blutsager/crossbow wombo combo. hell you could replace the amputator with stock for more of a battle medic style as the amputator is more of a defensive tool. many people underestimate just how much the extra swing speed the stock saw gives you. the quick-fix lets you do a lot more drive by healing so you can spend less time focusing on people that are less hurt (if you miss your crossbow which i do often) and you can get a lot more people overhealed a lot faster. Not to mention the Uber that denies knockback giving the middlefinger to the uber stuffing pyros and sentries. the amputator might not have a lot of situations where it is optimal but i seem to run into those decently enough and the group healing helps for when a lot of people are hurt and backing away from the front lines where you use the taunt heal *ONCE* _Maybe_ twice if it is safe then switch right back to your medigun. then the blutsager for the self healing syringes if your team refuses to protect you and the crossbow for if you want to heal people farther away though if you are like me and no matter how much you train with it you'll miss more than you hit you might like the overdose for the speed bonus as syringes tend to phase through people more often than hit anyway.
I think the Amputator could be made better with simply this: Increase the range a bit so teammates don't have to be huddled together Instead of requiring that you taunt, make it use a certain amount of Ubercharge, this allows medics to make the decision of whether they want to spend uber on a big push or spread out heals, and allows them to stay mobile For the Vita Saw as well you could make it a passive buff, so that if your heal target hits an enemy, it has a small chance to drop organs as well (onto the ground of course). This makes it waaaaaaayyyy easier for medics to conserve their ubercharge while also encouraging them to take more risks (you gotta pick up the organs, but what if there's more enemies where the last ones died?) The Overdose could be reworked like so: Keep the uber buff, but make it passive, also allowing you to give a certain amount of the speed you have (50 or even 100% of it) to anyone you're healing as well. This gives medics a reverse-scout effect (and maybe it could even have synergy with the quick fix, maybe boosting the buff?) Additionally, The Blutsauger could, while decreasing your health regen, also give you a boost to your hp (25 or even 50, acting kind of like a Gunslinger in that sense). This will allow medics to engage in riskier playstyles, and also allows offset of the debuff from the Vita-Saw for more potential synergy. Finally, the Solemn vow: Allow it so that your heal target can also see enemy hp. This again allows medics to be even more potentially helpful to their teammates. Hell, you could even give it a semi-Warfan effect where while you hold it you're marked for death, but any enemy you hit is marked for death as well, allowing for high-risk, high reward last ditch efforts. None of these are perfect, and I'm open to criticism, but I think it's a good start
Personally I use the stock syringe gun because I'm garbage at flick shots, so I always end up missing my crossbow shots when I need them. I'd rather give out consistent healing rather than consistently miss my burst healing, and since I'm a lot better at tracking I can actually defend myself with the syringe gun. I'd recommend using it with the Solemn Vow, it helps you see how many of your needles are actually hitting, and the gun just feels a lot more satisfying when you can see their healthbar melting away.
A while ago i made a concept for a healing-capable attack class for tf2. the class would've been called "the Rifleman" the Rifleman would have about 175 hp and would be as fast as pyro, engineer and sniper. the Rifleman would come equipped with a rifle which fires in semiauto and deals below-average damage at close to medium range, but has less falloff than most weapons, making it better at longer ranges. the class has a resource meter, which is used by the Rifleman's PDA. the resource meter fills passively at a slow rate, but can be accelerated by dealing damage with the rifle the PDA can produce small ammo boxes for 25% of the meter, medium health kits for 50% of the meter and minicrit canteens for 100% of the meter. the Rifleman functions as a more independent support class than medic, as well as being capable of laying down suppressive fire against snipers.
@@zeldies1976 giving engineer the ability to cause destructive explosions when he demolishes his buildings in exchange for higher building cost, more sentry variants, a construction pda which focuses on his dispenser instead of his sentry, a medieval PDA, a disguise kit which enables spy to create decoy teammates or a disguise kit that only lets spy disguise as teammates but lets him keep his disguises when he attacks.
I know this vid is 3 month old but I always Wanted a buff to the gunslinger. Make it that dispenser built quickier, heals faster, gives more ammo, have the same amaout of metal requedment as the teleport when using eureka effect, etc. I think that would balance because with gunslinger, you already lose big amount of defensive capability for movement and supportive one.
I kinda get your amputator hate. Kinda. I use this in my prefered loadout (being crossbow, quick fix/stock , and amputator) I use the amputator more safely than you were. For example, I always keep my back to the wall when I use it, but I saw you get back stabbed while using the taunt. And you’re right about it not being a good attacking tool, but it isn’t supposed to be one, you’re job is to heal, not to attack. Also, I got my highest healing ever on medic in a single match using it on last dustbowl (yea I heard you mention that map).
One thing the crusader’s crossbow also has over every other medic primary is something not even listed on the weapon itself. It passively reloads itself, you can heal someone with a crossbow, switch to your medigun and when you switch back your crossbow is already reloaded
It blows my mind that he glossed over the Solemn Vow. Also the use case of the syringe gun unlocks isn’t to kill enemies, it’s to boost your survivability while you escape back to your team. The Blutsauger and Overdose accomplish this. He suggests that those unlocks fail at their use-case, but that’s false. What makes them obsolete is that the crossbow exists. All these clips of him running into the enemy team up in a Soldier’s face trying to syringe him makes me not want to like this video :/
I can't avoid being a hopeless contrarian and preach the word of the amputator, I just think it's gameplay is more fun than the ubersaw Fantastic video BTW!
I play medic, I love the gameplay and the way the class works. But why I don't play him more often? It's because teams are usually not balanced in casual. If both sides are balanced, the fights are a little bit longet, it us not a roll and the team actually cares about their med, it's the most fun I can have. But when it's bad, my team is dumb and stuff like that... it's just easier to go play soldier or something and hope for the best
I don’t think giving more healing to other classes is the solution. There’s a reason that pyro is the only class that has fire(no the cow mangler doesn’t count). It’s part of his identity. Same goes for medic. Besides giving the classes more healing really doesn’t fix the problem that medic has a primary and melee so superior that all the others can’t even carve out a niche. I think this is why buffing the other weapons is probably better. My ideas for some buffs for medics weapons: - Syringe guns: give the syringes more velocity. Allow them to get Uber on hit. - Vitasaw: rework the weapon completely. allow it to heal your teammates with a melee hit. - overdose: 20% speed boost all the time when the weapon is out(this was in the video) - Amputator: Give the medic the ability to cancel the taunt. Maybe bump up the heals slightly. Allow the healing from it to give overheal.
How about having the amputator store energy gained by damage dealt by any means and activating it to AoE heal for a while, kinda like a cleaners carabine, that way you can AoE while still being mobile and having access to faster healing with the medigun, if needed maybe the healing speed of the medigun could be lowered a bit during the ability
I'd argue your amputator segment of the video solidified my belief that it's the worst medic melee. The fact that even in it's niche case scenarios, even in those it's still bad? Why even use it then? You lose out in healing AND uber gain, you become stationary target, and I'd argue you learn bad habits, like not learning how to find your own medkits and using taunt to heal or standing with melee to heal, even tho healing teammates also speeds up your own self heal regen... It's so bad outside of medieval that I think multiple buffs would still not make it op, but here's a couple of em. 1) Make it build uber the dame amount if not MORE then if you did it manually, considering how amp taunt is a hazard for both medic(becoming stationary target) and your team(grouping up for easy kills) I think med could be rewarded with extra uber for this, although it might be op so just reduce uber lost on amp heals to not be as severe. 2) Make you able yo move while taunting. And or make taunt cancelable (this one might make it op since comp players hate loopable taunts) 3) Make amp extra healing passive, either you don't have to pull it out to get extra heals or remove this weird mechanic where you don't instantly get maximum health regen and have to wait a couple of seconds(this rework might make this item op, depending on how much we do it) 4) Make Amp give you more hp during a taunt and/or... Make it *overheal you* This might be actually OP... Ok it is but I still like the idea. 5) Increase it's healing range? 6) Bold idea but how about removing taunt gimmick altogether and just make medic have heal aura by holding the melee itself? It would eliminate issue of being stationary target, team leaving your heal aura. 7) Maybe amp healing gives buffs besides healing? Like a small speed boost? Edit: 8) Give medic resists while taunting and maybe crit resist, if you make them big enough you might even turn Medic into... Tank? Ehh, still an interesting idea, it may make this into a "panic button" type of weapon, giving you time to think while you heal and have resists.
I think making stock (or all) needleguns heal teammates would be a good start. Then medics could pick the crossbow for single target, long range, burst heal or the needlegun for long range, sustained, spray-into-the-team healing.
The overdose isn't supposed to be used ONLY when you have 100% ubercharge, you can whip it out every time your pocket dies and if you have even half your ubercharge filled up the speed difference might save your ass, you can use it to traverse the map when there's no one around to heal or you're trying to reach a teammate faster, you can use it to retreat easily rather than fighting with the ubersaw, it's like this guy forgets he can just switch weapons when each is needed, like when the Pyro needs to pull out their Powerjack to reach someone or to retreat/traverse areas faster, in casual that can easily save your teammates who're too blind to see where you are so they don't go get health as they burn from the 5th pyro scorch shot they've eaten. As for the amputator, it's the same, you don't use it ALL the time, the medigun doesn't restrict you from switching to the amputator when you need it, admittedly the AoE healing isn't that great in casual but the +3 healing per second is honestly big to keep healing without having to retreat for medpacks (which the Overdose can also be useful for). I think both are more than viable weapons. I must also clarify that I'm a completely F2P medic main who can't call medic and has not random unlocked the crossbow, so I have to rely on passive healing and being a little more independent and has to do without the crossbow, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't use the crossbow a whole lot if I just had it lmao
A little disappointed you didn't talk about the solemn vow. It does relate to the main point of medic being rigid to play in casual, but free passive information vs 25% on hit incentives you to take less risks with your melee and go for cheeky picks with the crossbow. It's a breath of fresh air to medic's meta.
I'm a medic main with 200 hours and I'd say I find it good that Medic is that unique afterall he's called Medic but my Problem with Medic is that he is just painful to play, and he can barely defend himself and we all know Medic's aren't known to be defended well by their teams and usually just don't wanna live life anymore. it's not really fun to have like only two playstyles with the exact same weapons but only the medigun has changed (Stock and kritz), the uber just gives you a great chance to change the match entirely and get rid of strong defenses of the other team or the kritzkrieg which gives you a great oppurtinity at pushing the other team and being offensive to deal massive damage in a short period of time, but that's pretty much it with medic, He's basically just a punchbag for the enemies and for the own team just a person to complain about. So ofc nobody wants to play Medic he is unfun to play and the only reason to play him is because he is the biggest factor why a team wins. I personally find that pretty depressing because I always loved playing support, it's great to support your team and get thanked and even with all those flaws will I continue maining Medic but nowadays I just wish it wouldn't feel like I play him because I have to but rather because I want to.
As a “totally not” battle medic, and medic “true” main. I can hit all my shots (missing 0-3 needles) the +3 helps a lot when I’m low and don’t wanna run for a medicpack. There have been plenty of situations where the reload of the crossbow just feels too slow, and I die while reloading. Another plus to the any of the syringe guns is “you can do chip damage” and is easy to do. just do a little flank spray about 50 needles in the area of the enemy’s (usually a cap point or payload) and run. Combining that with the blutsauger’s +3 health lowering 5 different enemy’s health by a small amount will completely fill up my health and that’s something the “meta” can’t do.
I'd like to see more options for outputting healing from the Medic, like having the quick-fix be AoE healing or the over-dose syringe heals and gives passive speed boost, maybe the vita saw lets medics throw out health-packs when collecting organs. Maybe changing the Blutesauger to be a DMR type weapon. With the amputator it could be on a charge meter and gives a defensive buff or speed boost. There's a lot of potential within the class already to make for interesting decisions on how to play medic. But I agree that right now medic's gameplay is quite stale.
I don't see how you can take away positives from Shounic's medic revive test, especially when your main complaint about medic is his rigid game play, as the two points I gleamed from his video were: 1. Classes now clumped around their medics even more compulsively than before, making medic hugging their defacto objective, providing less branching out and coordination of team pushes. And 2. Matches would go on way longer than needed due to how long the revive pedestals stayed active for, as showcased by the one clip of a medic bringing back four deceased classes after a skirmish, when it should be more balanced to only have the time to bring back two at most. As a medic main I agree with some of the points made, like how normal medic can get stale after a long while of playing, but the idea that adding more varied sources of healing will "lighten his shoulders to play less rigid" sounds ridiculous to me. To me, the biggest fun I have while playing medic doesn't come from anything I do... it's the wacky and unbelievable plays my team around me does. Satisfaction as medic usually comes when a stupid play that would have never succeeded without medic's abilities ends up actually working, like making a classic sniper only push into the enemy Intel on 2fort... or protecting several Buffalo steak sandwich heavies (the classic sniper example actually happened once on a 2fort game and it was darn hilarious!). It may sound cheesy or stupid, but I like being the backbone of other people's dumb fun in this game. So to me, giving other classes the ability to pull off things like this just as easily would actually take away from medic's fun, not increase it. His fun comes from his uniqueness, and it's how you apply that uniqueness to your team that makes a game fun. Edit: This also isn't even getting into how making medic less unique in his healing prowess would ultimately mess with pick classes like spy and scout, who often give their lives to dispatch an enemy medic. If other classes are given the ability to heal in a similar vein to medic, then what would be the point of these picks? Suddenly the work load for these classes becomes much higher, and subsequently makes them much weaker (as shounic also described in his test video when talking about spy). You might think as a medic main I'd enjoy seeing pick classes made weaker... but no. I actually have a lot of respect for spy, sniper, and scout players. Even though I die to them more than any other, I still think they're a necessary counter to medic and make him even more fun to play when attempting to play more seriously.
I use quickfix and amputator. Healing (and not dying, to an extent) is my motto and I’m really bad at it. Plus, the overdose works pretty well too with my incredibly bad strat, as I can run in after being weirdly away from the fight and do… something Ok I se the point now, but still, I tend to get away on accident a ton, so simply running around is my best option as I do not trust myself to hit crossbow shots or melee hits and do not trust myself to pop Ubers right. TL:DR I am a medic main, but not a good one so I find the amputator and overdose to be nice.
Theory-Y Studios made videos of how to buff both the Melee and Primary weapons, as well as buffing quick fix and nerfing vaccinator. The reason I play medic is to feel like the anchor leading my team to victory. My journey started as a pyro main. During a match of badlands, a demo on my team called for medic, then stared at me. I said why not, and switched on the spot. Haven’t looked back since
Medic suffers so fucking bad from being the meta that it's genuinely unfun to use them. I use the Overdose and the Amputator/Vow...and it's so much more fun zooming around or 'bumrushing' some scout that assumed you could only hit him once every second or so. It's funny. The crossbow I feel was a mistake...a mistake that has kneecapped medic so much in gameplay...and the ubersaw makes me angry...stop chasing enemies and fucking heal please!
Idea: how about a medigun that you can use while using uber? Stats: -25% damage, -50% magazine capacity, +50% reloading time, -33% uber length. When using ubercharge, automatically switch to this weapon and the healing beam does not disconnect until max range. The syringes deal critical damage to enemies until the uber ends.
You really didnt say anything about the title of the video in the intire video and controdicted yourself. Basically said medics unlocks are overshadowed. It took soo much time to say such a simple thing. HAVE A POINT At the end of the video you just said the conclusion without any prior talking of the subject. Medics uniqueness doesnt make it rigid look at spy he has only really one playstyle get behind and backstab. But still has varying ways to do it with small adjustments
Using the amputator like an idiot just to gather the few clips for the video... Neat job, you've done the same 100% of the other videos talking about Medic did. Nothing that interesting, same information I've heard a zillion times how "Crossbow, stock, Ubersaw best combo." At least this isn't gonna change any time soon...
On the amputator, from a fellow medic main; If it were that you had to fill some sort of meter to use the taunt, and the healing of the taunt was the same as healing all those in the AOE with the quick-fix, it would be *way* better. Maybe you had to heal 500 health to use it, it would need some testing so who knows how the meter would be filled, but if it were like that maybe it would surpass the Ubersaw. Not like any of this matters though, *unless a steam workshop creator is reading this and made a community fix for the summer update.*
![[TF2] Why People Hate Medic](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yZ_0b6fuwaI/mqdefault.jpg)
Treggles, I specifically told you that body pillow was a PRIVATE merch drop. I am only forgiving you of this careless mistake for making an absolute banger video, so well done.
The whole video was purely to flex the fact I have the pillow and others don't. And also to steal your (albeit it miniscule) clout. Get owned, clown.
It is too late, our children sweat shops have already made 20 million copies
@@Treggles You gave our man elmaxo about the same screen time as Bing Soy playing Huntsman Sniper, so I'm not sure whose clout you are stealing here
hi I am ze man with 1000 Jarates.
Holy fuck its elmaxo tf2
I think there is an even bigger problem with medic in that his bad weapons aren't even fun. I can equip a bad weapon on other classes and still have a good time messing around with a new playstyle, but on medic you just do the exact same stuff with bad weapons, only worse. Its probably why people like the amputator, it atleast feels like there is something slightly different you can do.
Exactly.
COUGH COUGH SANDMAN
COUGH COUGH RED TAPE RECORDER
@@depressedengineer5766 Red Tape is fun when trolling with battle engines.
Exactly. Why would I give up the ability to not only style on my opponents but also the ability to fully heal someone from across the map for extra movement speed that 90℅ of the time I can't take advantage of?
The best part about the crossbow isn't the burst healing, no no... its the ability to duel snipers! I fucking love dueling snipers and then taunting after I kill them from half way across the map
Snipers are very satisfying to get a good read on and kill.
I would not play much Medic if not for the crossbow existing, fighting with it is just so satisfying. The healing for me is just the cherry on top.
dont feel too satisfied, the only snipers you will get are ones that arent up to Pollos standards
@@aetu35 Not necessarily. While rare, if the sniper isn't looking at you, it's the easiest bolt you can land.
I bet sniper also love one-shotting over-confident medics that think they can 1v1 a sniper with a crossbow lmao
Despite being my favourite class, medic does indeed suffer from "The Meta" the hardest in this game we call Team Fortress Two.
I almost wish that the Syringe guns had higher velocity, and were thus more accurate. Because sometimes, ze healing does not feel as rewarding as ze hurting. Plus I desperately want to be able to do something about my hapless, utterly useless and brain-deficient teammates not being observant enough to defend their main source of healing, that of which is holding the team together, from a single scout or spy.
Honestly, that's the biggest issue with the syringe guns. If you increased their velocity, you wouldn't have to aim at the skybox to hit someone 5 feet away.
I personally like the Overdose because "Motherfucking Max Severed Head Scout with a lime unu in my face again fellas" type of moments where all you can do is pray your team uses their view mechanics or you can kill the scout somehow.
You should try out the fsoas rebalance server, they made the syringe gun fire non healing crossbow projectiles and it’s wonderful
@@talkandmockinggoblin960 I appreciate the suggestion, but FSOAS's idea of balanced TF2 doesn't conform with my own.
My answer to that is to not play medic so seriously.
I'm being serious when I say, the most fun I've had as medic is when I join a game where people are using weird gimmicks or stacking classes for the hell of it. Normally the other team would end up crushing the gimmicky goons on ours, but supporting them as a medic and watching the ridiculousness continue on is one of my favorite feelings in this game.
I understand this video and it's comments are probably more focused on competitive TF2 than non-competitive... but I don't want to see medic or any other class be changed in a way to make these moments less special.
algorithm bless this video
If the algorithm has blessed me with you, that's all I need
Tf2 vids are crazy my recommended is full of people with under 500 subs too
@@Treggles tbh you aren’t the greatest tf2 youtuber compared to lazy purple and uncle Dane but you deserve the subs
@@rumpelstiltskin9729 I think the TH-cam algorithm changed to recommend smaller creators more. I like it.
@@John-merman ????
Honestly, the amputator is more of a tool for psyche than math.
It's not mathematically an improvement in many circumstances, but the two main benefits for me are:
•No reward for getting melee hits means that I feel no obligation to melee attack anything I don't have to
•Ease of use in crowds of players
Melee fights are a gamble with your life, The amputator makes that gamble so much less tempting.
As for the taunt, you know how players feel, waiting for you to heal as you keep missing your crossbow? Sometimes you're missing the crossbow because a crowd keeps absorbing your bolts, and there's only two people in that crowd that actually need heals. You can use the amputator taunt to ensure that the players get some amount of healing as soon as possible, and your teammates can't get in the way of eachother's healing. It's not so much about mathmatical efficacy as it is about ensuring that nobody runs away.
Actually love this take
Also one little thing, it boosts regen, so i can avoid more medkits for my team, and i can regen to full way sooner
@@Treggles IMHO the amputator is being used wrong. Its good for helping pushes where you can't reliably shoot crossbow nonstop, and can't advance FORWARDS, but are fine where you are.
I really like using it on KOTH. You don't have to worry about getting picked off when you just wiped out the entire enemy team, and you have to stand still on the point anyway.
@@eeeguba432 healing already doubles your passive health regen(which is better than the amputator), so it's better to heal a teammate than to pull out your amputator (if you have nearby hurt teammates)
Genuinely Medic plays like if Engie had the Rescue Ranger and nothing but variations of the Pomson in his primary slot and whenever you complain about being railroaded into using the RR at all times people just tell you "Engie's supposed to make buildings, he's not supposed to fight"
I love this comment, thank you for making it.
exactly right, people have status quo bias
"Genuinely Scout plays like if engie had the shotgun and nothing but variatons of the pomson in his primary slot and whenever you complain about being railroaded into using the SG at all times people just tell you "Engie's supposed to fight, he's not supposed to only make buildings"
@@baglespelledwrong8159 nigga what?
@@baglespelledwrong8159 Editted already
Weapon rework idea: Cozy Camper
since sniper class is listed as "support" you can make the cozy camper work as a banner item like soldier's.
sniper charges a bar by hitting headshots (maybe like 20% for a headshot but i leave balancing for people who know more about game design)
when the meter is fully charged sniper can use the item to spawn a campfire that would work kinda like a dispencer but only with healing(campfire automatically breaks after some time)
Ohh that’s some Dark Souls stuff
nah mate, make it 5% per headshot
yeah that could be pretty good, and it would encourage snipers to do the exact opposite of what it does now ironically enough, instead of camping, it would encourage play around their teammates
Other things:
The Provision Provider, an engineer secondary which functions as a mobile dispenser on his back. People with a the same radius as gas passer get healing and ammunition. Engie gets passive healing but no ammunition, but does get a slight increase in health. The downsides are he can't build dispensers and becomes as slow as soldier.
Mad Milk Jug:
Secondary for scout which charges the same as gas passer and with the same radius. Upon thrown enemies in it get mad milked as normal, but teammates going through the cloud get passive healing for a but, so thia could also be used to heal teammates.
@@muddashucka9743 if it was 5% you'd need to land 20 headshots to fill the bar
imagine needing to get a god-like just to set up a dispenser
That whole "Amputator bad" bit was just a classic case of "Medic main tries to unglue the ubersaw from his hands"
There's a reason it's glued to start with haha
@@Treggles all I'm saying is: of course the amputator is going to look bad if you're only using it most of the time. Anyone can make an "Ubersaw bad" bit by just running at the enemy team swinging. While the Ubersaw depends on the enemy team being bad the amputator depends on your team being good.
@@dombelly3343 Nah you missed the point of that section. It WASN'T cherry-picking examples of where it is bad, it is instead showing how infrequently useful it is, how niche the scenario is for it to BE useful. I am trying to demonstrate every instance where it COULD be useful, and usually, it isn't. Nearly every time you use the Ubersaw, it is massively effective.
No where did I say it's NEVER useful, it's just that it is so rare that switching out for it over the Ubersaw is objectively a downgrade. This is what I am proposing is part of the reason the medic is flawed - there is so little variety before you're just instantly gimping your abilities
I mean after playing other hero shooters shaped after TF2 it might seem not "unique enough". There is a reason why the game outlasted literally everything that came after it.
Maining Medic requires a different mindset as you're trying to save the other 8 people on your team while the other 8 people on the enemy team want to kill you.
I really appreciate how you're trying to point out that in the end there is only one true way to play Medic, but for me, that "Thanks" voice command when you heal someone is enough of a reward.
Yeah I always thank medics when I get healed
@@veikko666 I don't need to do that. Blizzard fucks the game enough already.
@@veikko666OW try to not bringing the game into a TF2 comment section that NEVER mentioned OW in the first place.
@@veikko666Yeah, most TF2 fans have an obsession with hating OW, but absolutely no one said anything about it dude
yes but in thag best case scenario for the amputater you forgot your giving the best case scenario for crossbow and quick-fix too. remember that people move and hitting 4 crossbow shots in a row is basically impossible but when you see a medic with a glowy orb around him, you know to stand still
It's refreshing to see someone giving a deep-dive into the unlocks of TF2 without devolving into a reciting of the entire wiki. That video is some cool shit.
I think I recall the main issue for the overdose is updates, that being originally matching your heal target's speed was solely a quick fix bonus, and the overdose came out before that buff was on all mediguns. So really it was a case of 'it was balanced until other things got buffed'
aslo, ubercharge speedboost was passive before tough break (or what update caused most passive weapons require to be active for their effects)
Maybe buff it so now either you passively have 10% more movement speed at all times even when not held out (you get faster with it equipped) or buff it so now the cap for speed is even higher, maybe 5% slower than a scout.
I honestly can't help but reflect on how common other syringe guns would be if they _also_ could be used to heal teamates.
Idk if that solution would do much, but it'd at least be interesting
depends on how much the heal is, but i think its bad design because you are competing for uptime with the medigun to do the same thing
crossbow doesn't because it doesn't require much uptime (having the weapon out for long periods of time to do stuff)
what you could do to address that though is give syringes a heal over time on hit so you can shoot a few teamates to start healing them then switch back to medigun immedietely and combine the effects, this makes it better for healing multiple targets but worse for burst healing and avoids the problems i brought up before
The projectile speed is the actual issue. Syringe guns have a max range of about ten feet before it's more about your enemy letting themselves be hit than it is about hitting them. It's like you're only possibly able to put in half the effort to get them killed and they actively have to give you the other half, much like how you can clear a Mario level in half an A press by taking the other half from somewhere else in a full game run. (I apologize.)
@@TooFewSecrets the idea i suggested actually makes that not an issue as well as you only have to land one
@@Leo.23232It probably wouldn't compete for uptime with the medigun. You would only use your primary for long range healing.
@@a445fa6sdwith heal over time youd use it like the crossbow, pull it tag someone with one syringe then back to medigun
maybe a medigun that disable your ability to manually heal but be able to build uber with damage or healing using your primary or secondary. The uber charge would be like the vaccinator where you would have 4 charges, each charge throwing out a orb that does a burst of healing and gives increased over heal.
So... Crusader's Crossbow 2.0
that actually be pretty bad if it doesn't have faster ubercharge cause need to use a charge just to get overheal is gonna suck so much
What do you mean by disable your ability to manually heal
I also think it’s important to state that the amputator taunt gives you less control over your healing. You sometimes don’t need to heal a scout because they can run/jump quickly to a health pack, but a heavy/soldier may need it really quickly, which you can dish in higher doses using medigun/crossbow
I mean, Amputator's taunt is a huge zone of healing. You're healing everyone. Who cares?
@@crack4184 Probably the heavy/solider who just died because you didn't heal them fast enough during the enemy push
@@AubergineMans the amputator deals crit heals, literally faster than the stock medigun. They would have died anyways
@@dombelly3343 Not if you used the crossbow or the vaccinator.
amputator works extremely well on dustbowl imo because of how choke point heavy the map is and how long it takes for either team to make any progress
especially the first point of stage 3 if you're on defense
The bad melee working on bad maps feels poetic.
Overdose is easily the second best primary for Medic in my experience. Helps me reach teammates faster and get out of situations alive (believe it or not just because you aren't walking into dangerous situations at high uber doesn't mean a situation can't become dangerous when you don't expect). Granted, it is best used with the Quick Fix for its very high uber rate meaning you get the speed boost fast and if you are REALLY in a bad situation, you can pop the uber to heal to full real quick and then sprint away because the Overdose speed boost doesn't decrease until you switch back to the medigun.
Solemn vow is also a good melee, especially if the enemies aren't dumb enough to walk in your melee range.
I LOVE playing spedic (quick fix overdose). Being able to just get OUT when I need to is great.
you know it's gonna be a good video when one of the timestamps is "Elmaxo is bad" KEKW
I feel like it’s be cool if the vita-saw worked like the eyelander, except it just gave you more max health, allowing for better survivability on your end, perhaps it could even give a slight damage increase to your primary as well
I mean if you kill an eyelander user you get all of their heads as organs
That actually sounds pretty cool as a potential Battle Med option. Just give it one notable downside that isn’t negated by the health increase, like maybe slower Uber build or heal rate to promote the less support-centered play style, and then that’d actually be a pretty interesting melee to use.
@@jblazerndrowzy you know I think they were initially trying to make the clinical trial item set into a sort of battle medic but it never really picked up. With the faster movement and heal speed alongside being able to see enemy health. If item sets bonuses were ever to return in some form, I could definitely see the clinical trial giving medic some combat prowess, that and a change to how item sets worked but that’s a whole other tangent.
I do love the Amputator solely because it's saved me from afterburn damage a few times. Better to stay alive than to die and take time to respawn, y'know? But it's like you said, extremely situational. I don't utilize melee a lot as I'm definitely more of a dedicated healer. Chances are if melee is out, I accidentally switched from my primary or medigun. That's why I use Amputator, I don't utilize the melee to have the Ubersaw upside be useful. I plan to replace and try a Vitasaw instead of my Amputator when I try it too, since it's a passive buff for something I very rarely pull out.
im surprised you didnt talk about the bonesaw, which i think is either the best or second best melee weapon. you might think that the ubersaws -20% isnt that impactful but not having a slower firing speed is crucial for medics melee, especially as a last resort (or as a combat medic).
i do prefer the ubersaw when im using the default medgun. however with the krietzkrieg and the vaccinator having faster build-ups the bonesaw becomes the better option in my opinion.
meh. i like the amputator more with teammates i can trust. when i don't have to worry too much about getting in melee range of anything i'd rather just have the nifty group heal by standby. can be amazing on koth or payload where teammates are holding spots or falling back.
Swing speed doesn't matter in scramble because it only applies to recovery. The first hit is just as fast.
Your channel is so underrated, especially considering the editing quality and well constructed arguments in general, I hope the algorithm decides to notice you more! Great video.
I'm going to put this out here, crossbow needs the sword's swap to and from speed penalty, and the ubarsaw needs to give 10%, not 25%
As someone who really likes the amputator... yeah it sucks. The damage penalty comes to bite you quite often and the increased regen when held is almost never useful outside of being on exceptionally low health with afterburn/bleed, in other cases its just better to continue medigun and crossbow healing. You really do have to use the taunt so conservatively to not get yourself decked that most rounds you bring it into, you wont even get good use out of the taunt, if using it at all! The one point it has at least is ease of use for group healing - but even then, usually if everyone is hurt in such a location a popular location, a dispenser can do the area healing just fine and supplement your own healing. In the 0.2% of situations the amputator works, it really, really works, but the other 99.8% of the time, it really just doesn't have a reason to be in your melee slot
What pains me is, i dunno how one would properly fix/change the amputator without different problems arising. Maybe it could have a meter which is drained on taunt, and the more of the meter is drained, the better the taunt (e.g. bigger aoe, maybe slight damage resistance)? It might just end up feeling like some awkward discount ubercharge, though
Ramblings aside, good video! Pretty well encapsulates the position medic is in. I also had never thought about the vitasaw in the way you compared it to the ubersaw (in part because I just don't think about the vitasaw at all lmao)
It's as if you've clambered into my brain and completely assessed my exact feelings on it. Extremely based comment!
I sometimes wonder if it would be too OP if you could taunt cancel (maybe after at least 2 sec?) the Amputator, then the vulnerability to Spys jumping out of the woodwork to stab you would be less harsh
@@Appletank8 Every time I use it, I constantly think "man I wish I could just cancel this rn". I don't think it'd be an OP change, either
My fix for the Amputator would be to just let it give Overheal. Maybe at 50-75% of regular speed, and/or give it a overheal limit like the Quick-Fix. That way you're not waiting for a bunch of hurt players to use the taunt, and can inform players ahead of time that you're now a Rally Point/Dispenser so they don't run off in the other direction when they see you busy with healing another person.
That, or make the heal instant the moment you taunt and not 1-2 seconds after it started. So even if you died a few seconds into the taunt you would've given a good amount of health.
Or just make the taunt self heal the Medic like the Kritzkriege. You do have to give up free Uber charge or the ability to see enemy HP so I say that's a fair trade off.
I do think the self healing on the amputator is a bit overlooked for a lot of situations. Most players follow the strategy of "Get the medic first" which is fair, but means the medic is very often going to be taking damage. If your team is still doing fine and the enemy attention is on the medic, the self healing can buy those few extra seconds to keep the medic alive without having to waste Uber. Where I find this most helpful however is when using the crossbow as that keeps the medic at a safe distance. Chip damage can be healed from much quicker allowing the medic to go back to supporting his team quicker. Also I suck with melee and don't trust the hit registration one bit so bonus Uber on hit one time a game just doesn't stack up to double passive healing.
for the love of god make it passive PLEASE MAN
Heavy easily the hardest class, medic is mid
Fight me irl (you won't)
one of the saddest thing as a pocket soldier in casual is staring at ur medic slowly healing you from 20 health to full and while he is doing that u stare at him and press the inspect button and realise his ass is running the blutsauger and not the cross bow X__X
The Blut is usually the weapon of the medic who doesn't trust his team.
it's hard to argue having burst healing over minigun level damage when your team can't protect you
granted the med might be trying to build uber if you're both in a safe place. why not?
This is one of the reasons I hate the crossbow's entire existence.
@@The24thWight True. In casual servers you can't be sure if your pocket is going to protect you or anything, or even if your team is going to bother protecting you at all. At least the blutsauger is a good self defense weapon.
I think the Medic HAS to be bad at head-to-head combat, because of his strong support. He is designed to rely on his teammates protection, and in exchange, he helps them, therefore rewarding them for their protection. As a contrast, Engineer is not designed to support one person at a time. He supports the team a a whole, and because there is no direct „benefit“ to protecting an Engie Nest (other than common courtesy), he is equipped with means of self defense, the shotgun and pistol.
Thinking about this, maybe it would be interesting to give spy some more diversification as all of his unlocks are basically the same playstyle. Perhaps you could have something like the icicle knife but can be used on team mates, perhaps a vial or actual syringe? Once used it would give a buff or heals and then have to recharge. It would be a great addition to gun spy I feel and would solidify his role as a more unique and interesting character.
So like the scrapped needle weapon for medic.
nicely done vid , i love to play Med even if im not a Med Main, i think the "Neuron activation" when ppl play Med is watching ur patient destroying an entire team, of course that may not happen, but when in happens is a lot of fun
I'm a medic main but one gripe I have with the class is lack of weapon variety. The only real good weapons are the Crossbow and the Ubersaw, or Amputator if you're not feeling lucky at 2Fort. Beyond that, you get to choose between 4 different mediguns that do a similar thing.
It sucks because people come up with these great concepts that could really shake up the meta but Valve doesn't seem to care. I'd like to say they're too busy fixing the bot problem but it's too optimistic for me.
I still like him because he plays a vital role in whether the team wins or loses. It's a natural fit because why spend so many hours practicing at tr_walkway every day when I can hop in, heal my teammates and have them shoot the bad guys for me?
Tried using stock syringes yesterday. It was. Not very fun. I remember I used to know how to use it but ultimately it just wasn't worth it.
As for the Ubersaw. Which I am sure you'll mention. I just don't like how it makes the entire game about uber. It causes this obsession with the charge that makes playing with serious medics quite annoying particularly if you were playing medic yourself.
I want a rythm based aoe drum kit, so you heal through music, like what the amputator want to be an ubering would be as effective since you're providing more health. Maybe like a small dmg resistance, speed boost, and dmg buff. Something along the lines of the game BPM I'd say you would do you're best to hit notes while being mid battle. It would also make the music of TF2 a more active part of the game as I feel like it isn't used actively in the game and more so on promotional pieces and the lobby.
I specifically *avoid* the Meta.
I don't use the Crossbow much. I stick with the Overdose, Blutsauger if I want to go ham, Syringe Gun if I need self defence.
I use whatever medi-gun my team needs, whenever. I mostly try not to stack on the same medi gun.
My melee is almost always the amputator, though sometimes I go insane with the bonesaw, or use the solemn vow for information. Vita Saw if I can get lucky hits in.
Amazing video man, I was M A N I C the milked engie and taunting soldier. Originally I was gonna skip to me but your video really hooked me! Good stuff mate
It's you! Thank you for your help!
If you keep on making videos like this you will easily make it as a sawed after tf2 youtuber, you already are in our eyes (SpyTiCole, I made a new account named spy for yt content creation)
*sought after
@@asdfman-xg1po no, Joesphene is right; if Treggles keeps this up I will come after him with a saw
In 5:53, I couldn't agree more. The sheer damage of explosives will completely destroy you before you could heal yourself, even if it was all splash damage. The taunt from the Amputator suffers from that also, as you've said, teammates get deadly damaged in mere milliseconds.
I strongly agree that Valve could think about other alternative weapons so the other classes can give more support - even creating new sub-classes, who knows? I feel like playing medic is cool, I am used to the support hole from other games I've played. But it can get rather boring indeed.
The time to kill issue is more towards the classes that won't do massive damage in one go - such as Scout or Pyro. However, I do feel like those two are constantly overshadowed in "sweaty casual" modes, as most of the high level players - that just want to stomp the enemy team - use power classes, so I think theres a lot of room for discussion on that.
However, I've never had issues with the Vaccinator - It is a great counter for a team full of demos-spam and Soldiers that will just splash you to death. I do main Pyro, but when I see a Vaccinator, I just change my secondary from the Detonator to the regular shotgun. I feel like the Vacc is more of a weapon made to force the enemy team to deal damage from different sources, and I'm all up for that.
The only thing about medic that truly gets me mad is the overhealing mecanic. It is a nice idea, helping some classes to withstand more damage, but the way that "Pocket Healing" doesn't get any drawback to both Medic and "Pocketed" just feels wrong. It is so common to enter a mixed lobby with red team being stomped, while blue has 2 players with 70+ points and the rest is on their 20-ish. It's so easy to make a Heavy become a "mini boss", as it gets to do massive damage via 'random crits" and won't ever die (only to backstabs and completely fully charged headshots, but that seems rather impossible when the russian guy does that much damage).
2:14 what about the engie? Honestly I think he is even more unique than the med, and that a lot of people would agree on that.
Yeah I can see the argument for that
I think that Medic needs some attention to not only does he have some minimal amounts of weapons in his disposal The devs should accept the workshop weapons for Medic that should really benefit the class & undoubtedly would be a big improvement for the Medic
Amputator needs a buff. Maybe a scale up in range and healing per second based on ubercharge %.
It would be interesting if amputator's altfire worked the same way as soldier's banners, but instead of the heal-on-hit buff you have the heal overtime buff (similar to the overheal+ubercharge spell in halloween) and it takes a portion of your uber (i'm not sure so i'm just using X% instead)
no too inconsistent
just make the self healing bonus passive and increase the uber gain from the aoe
excellent video mate! you captured your opinions well and the segments were all the perfect length!
The syringe guns are an SMG with 40 bullets if you use them well, as a syringe gun enjoyer I find myself *switching to blutsauger, overdose or even stock* just to keep up my survivability against flanking classes
It doesn't matter if a medic can heal 400 health in 10 seconds if he only lives for 15 seconds
The unsung hero of a timeless game - A class who can break the stalemate of a stagnant fight, at the burden of seeing a red cross icon on everyone. Those who main medic I dont know how you do it, but keep fighting the good fight
what makes the amputator even worse is that medic's regen is DOUBLED when healing a hurt teammate with their medigun, which incentivises medics to heal with their medigun when hurt instead of burst healing with the crossbow or... pulling out the amputator
also imo the solemn vow is the safest and most consistent melee option. its unique in that its upside (of seeing enemy health) is ALWAYS useful, regardless of whether you make a swing at an enemy, or bothered to use the amputator. getting into melee range with an enemy as medic is rare, so it's not guaranteed that you hit someone with the ubersaw. it's a great option for medics to know their limits and not rush into 5 enemies to get le funny +25% uber
Good points!
Medic main form Asia here
Practical solution for medic without adding a new support class and/or new medic weapons.
All Syringe guns: heals teammates on hit: more healing than crossbow if all shots connect. This should be balanced out by the innate inaccuracy and sort range of all of these.
If even this buff isn't enough increases velocity and make them reload on stow.
Amputator: CAN MOVE WHILE TAUNTING.
Vita saw: +15% uber when hitting on enemy AND 15% uber stored in case of death (up to 60%).
This would make it more a conservative Ubersaw. A safer but less rewarding alternative, not a downgrade.
Quick fix: The player can toggle the 'mirror patient's movement' mechanic On and Off with the R key & no flashing penalty for Ubercharge
I agree that other support-style classes need to get buffs and new item regarding healing to lessen the burden of the medic.
Also, I said I wouldn't include new medic weapons, but to break the staleness of the medic I think we need at least one.
My idea: THE REVIVER: A medi gun that performs the MVM revive on teammates with its Ubercharge. Can revive multiple teammates if used at the right place and time but is balanced out by having no benefits for the medic himself (like the kritzkrieg) while ubering and having a small downside like -20% heal rate.
something i'm surprised you didn't mention since you ranted so much about the amputator is the fact that the extra passive healing is even more niche than it sounds like
it would be problematic enough if it was simply that you had to pull it out to get the extra healing, but medic's passive healing doubles while you heal someone with the medigun, so 3-6 depending on how long it's been since you got hurt so realistically it only matters if you have no teammates around you
i don't even think it's about unlocks, moreso the fact that TF2 is a first person SHOOTER based around dealing damage, and medic doesn't shoot or deal damage, so he's fundamentally just boring to play. it's that simple.
he's also reliant on his teammates to an extent that no other class even comes close to, which just makes him even worse to play, and fundamentally at odds with tf2's design as a single player multiplayer game.
8:32
I sometimes like to play games with bots using default weapons, and whenever I play Medic I go through at least 1 situation each game where I accidentally pull out my syringe gun as if it was the crossbow
absolute banger
Fancy seeing you here! ❤️
I dont think most of medics primarys and melees suck, the crossbow and ubersaw are overpowerd so I refuse to use the crossbow and ubersaw on medic no mather what.
This vid deserves way more views, algorithm better do it justice
This man is going PLACES
Amazing work on the video, really entertaining and informative! 👏
I think you using amputator wrong
In the clips you just spam it even if your teammets are far away
You supposed to use it once or twice with you back against the wall and close to the Group of People who are staying in one place (for example: chokepoint)
Bdw: some tips for amputator:
-for killing 125 healt classes, you can just shoot the crossbow and then hit them twice (instead of three Times)
-If you hold the amputator and you go to +6 regen, you can pull your primary and quikly back to melle to go straight into +9
So thats all sorry for bad English, despise the leght of the comment I agree with most of your opinions and I See how much and fast you are improving
KEEP IT UP!
I feared this would be the take of the amputator compilation. I put this to you: I was forcing myself to use it at every turn in order to FIND situations where it would work well. I wasn't trying to show that I was using it correctly and it wasn't working. I was showing that these supposed "best case scenarios" happen so rarely that it is not worth using. A best case scenario should appear OFTEN if you are academically forcing yourself to use the taunt, but the fact is they just don't.
@@Treggles ohhhhhhhh that makes sense
the thing about the amputator's taunt is that there isnt a cap on the teammates you can heal
if you're playing casual, theres enough people around you that it's faster 50% of the time to just use the taunt and get them up to full, or at least to a reasonable number of health
if you're playing highlander, your team will likely be around you a lot of the time, making you vulnerable to splash damage. instead of having to individually heal all your teammates, you can pull out the amputator and get them all up to full in around 4 seconds
if you're playing 6s, yeah its pretty bad
even using the taunt once is good for healing. it'll get your team up to a level they wont get 1 shot by 7/9 classes, and 4 seconds isnt a very long time.
most of you complaints about it seem to stem from using it _during_ team fights, in which it's a very poor choice a majority of the time. amputator shines when your team retreats, or has just won the fight.
yes. its not better than the ubersaw. ubersaw is better. however, what you're implying is that it's so much worse than the ubersaw, that you _cant_ pick it seriously. nothing and no-one is holding you at gunpoint to make you pick ubersaw. pick amputator if you _like_ using it. pick vita-saw if you _like_ using it. pick blutsauger if you _like_ using it. if you want to be consistantly effective, make a team of all snipers, then headshot everyone on the enemy team when they round the corner.
- #1 amputator stan
Love to see bing soy in this
It's always fun to come across his shenanigans in game
I’d give the crossbow the equalizer treatment where the damage and healing side of the crossbow are split into separate weapons, so you actually have to commit to sacrificing survivability for better healing potential
Having a 2nd Crossbow being a dmg dealer with 0 support applications takes out the coolest and medic part of the crossbow.
Like when's the last time you've seen Equalizer user and compare that to the Escape Plan.
i see so your solution is to once again make syringe guns useless
why you got that weird plug
did you use a toy story 2 clip and then add a fucking source in the bottom left as if there were a human on this earth who watches this channel who doesnt know what toy story 2 is
Might wanna double check which Toy Story it was. Seems like the source was needed! 😂
@@Treggles ah i misread ur source, my brain conjured up a 2 somehow 😅
still though, the toy story citation is hilarious to me
@@Sageknot Haha all good. TH-cam flagged me for "reused content" the last time I tried to apply to the partner program, so I'm extremely wary of using even short and often completely transformed clips without sourcing them, no matter how popular they are. I don't want to give them any BS excuse to hit me with "reused content" again
@@Treggles ah, i gotcha. if youtube does one thing well, it's finding absolutely bullshit reasons to strike content creators at complete random
Medic ISNT the strongest? WHAT?
I personally hardly play as medic, but when I do, I use the Overdose, Quick Fix and Amputator, but mostly when there's already another medic with the stock medigun, since usually they pocket one player, so I am mostly the one that helps keep the team alive while they are the one that help push the objective
I main medic and I use the amputator cuz 1. I don't wanna go around the map trying to get a health pack, 2. I don't really use uber much, cuz I focus more on healing people on low health and 3. if you're in a situation where you need to fight and you're in a tight space, you should always use your crossbow, so the low damage thing doesn't really matter, not to mention the fact like 1/3rd of the time the amputator crits, so it's best to leave melees as a finisher basically
i find it quite satisfying yet challenging to play medic, he is one of my favourite classes to play and feels very rewarding to do so. i really dont get how people dont like playing medic
Same
I really did not understand this video. I guess the argument is that most medic's unlocks are bad and that playing medic is boring and stale. Seems like that has been the case since Crossbow was released back in 2010. And i don't understand the rant about the Amputator. Healing is not even Medic's strongest ability, it's uber. Healing is useless if you can't push through a sentry nest or a chokepoint. These days most classes have a way to sustain themselves without a medic, but you really can't replace uber.
"Healing is not even Medic's strongest ability, it's uber." If this is your understanding, then you did understand the video. The amputator is useless because it only heals (and does it poorly). Ubersaw is god tier because it gives uber. And this has been this way for a long time, hence why the Medic is ultimately flawed. Seems like you got it!
1:26 For me its generally because the people I heal might not be the brightest, it can get annoying even though it's just a video game. Usually pushing the cart is easier provided your team actually do push the cart, a close by central location to easily support
Think of it as a bit of an investment. You heal and even pocket a few players (NOT just the already really good ones); at first they struggle but over time they get better thanks to your overheals and ubers
they haven't heard of the quick-fix amputator blutsager/crossbow wombo combo.
hell you could replace the amputator with stock for more of a battle medic style as the amputator is more of a defensive tool. many people underestimate just how much the extra swing speed the stock saw gives you.
the quick-fix lets you do a lot more drive by healing so you can spend less time focusing on people that are less hurt (if you miss your crossbow which i do often) and you can get a lot more people overhealed a lot faster. Not to mention the Uber that denies knockback giving the middlefinger to the uber stuffing pyros and sentries. the amputator might not have a lot of situations where it is optimal but i seem to run into those decently enough and the group healing helps for when a lot of people are hurt and backing away from the front lines where you use the taunt heal *ONCE* _Maybe_ twice if it is safe then switch right back to your medigun. then the blutsager for the self healing syringes if your team refuses to protect you and the crossbow for if you want to heal people farther away though if you are like me and no matter how much you train with it you'll miss more than you hit you might like the overdose for the speed bonus as syringes tend to phase through people more often than hit anyway.
This video is very well edited. I particularly liked that intro, creative and fun.
Thanks very much!
I think the Amputator could be made better with simply this:
Increase the range a bit so teammates don't have to be huddled together
Instead of requiring that you taunt, make it use a certain amount of Ubercharge, this allows medics to make the decision of whether they want to spend uber on a big push or spread out heals, and allows them to stay mobile
For the Vita Saw as well you could make it a passive buff, so that if your heal target hits an enemy, it has a small chance to drop organs as well (onto the ground of course). This makes it waaaaaaayyyy easier for medics to conserve their ubercharge while also encouraging them to take more risks (you gotta pick up the organs, but what if there's more enemies where the last ones died?)
The Overdose could be reworked like so: Keep the uber buff, but make it passive, also allowing you to give a certain amount of the speed you have (50 or even 100% of it) to anyone you're healing as well. This gives medics a reverse-scout effect (and maybe it could even have synergy with the quick fix, maybe boosting the buff?)
Additionally, The Blutsauger could, while decreasing your health regen, also give you a boost to your hp (25 or even 50, acting kind of like a Gunslinger in that sense). This will allow medics to engage in riskier playstyles, and also allows offset of the debuff from the Vita-Saw for more potential synergy.
Finally, the Solemn vow: Allow it so that your heal target can also see enemy hp. This again allows medics to be even more potentially helpful to their teammates. Hell, you could even give it a semi-Warfan effect where while you hold it you're marked for death, but any enemy you hit is marked for death as well, allowing for high-risk, high reward last ditch efforts.
None of these are perfect, and I'm open to criticism, but I think it's a good start
battle medic with the blutsauger is actually quite fun when the rest of your team can't do jack.
Personally I use the stock syringe gun because I'm garbage at flick shots, so I always end up missing my crossbow shots when I need them. I'd rather give out consistent healing rather than consistently miss my burst healing, and since I'm a lot better at tracking I can actually defend myself with the syringe gun. I'd recommend using it with the Solemn Vow, it helps you see how many of your needles are actually hitting, and the gun just feels a lot more satisfying when you can see their healthbar melting away.
A while ago i made a concept for a healing-capable attack class for tf2.
the class would've been called "the Rifleman"
the Rifleman would have about 175 hp and would be as fast as pyro, engineer and sniper.
the Rifleman would come equipped with a rifle which fires in semiauto and deals below-average damage at close to medium range, but has less falloff than most weapons, making it better at longer ranges.
the class has a resource meter, which is used by the Rifleman's PDA.
the resource meter fills passively at a slow rate, but can be accelerated by dealing damage with the rifle
the PDA can produce small ammo boxes for 25% of the meter, medium health kits for 50% of the meter and minicrit canteens for 100% of the meter.
the Rifleman functions as a more independent support class than medic, as well as being capable of laying down suppressive fire against snipers.
Imagine what could have been if Valve actually used the PDA slot...
@@zeldies1976 giving engineer the ability to cause destructive explosions when he demolishes his buildings in exchange for higher building cost, more sentry variants, a construction pda which focuses on his dispenser instead of his sentry, a medieval PDA, a disguise kit which enables spy to create decoy teammates or a disguise kit that only lets spy disguise as teammates but lets him keep his disguises when he attacks.
I know this vid is 3 month old but I always Wanted a buff to the gunslinger. Make it that dispenser built quickier, heals faster, gives more ammo, have the same amaout of metal requedment as the teleport when using eureka effect, etc. I think that would balance because with gunslinger, you already lose big amount of defensive capability for movement and supportive one.
Appreciate ya taking the time! That idea could certainly be fun!
@@Treggles :D
I kinda get your amputator hate. Kinda.
I use this in my prefered loadout (being crossbow, quick fix/stock , and amputator)
I use the amputator more safely than you were. For example, I always keep my back to the wall when I use it, but I saw you get back stabbed while using the taunt. And you’re right about it not being a good attacking tool, but it isn’t supposed to be one, you’re job is to heal, not to attack. Also, I got my highest healing ever on medic in a single match using it on last dustbowl (yea I heard you mention that map).
One thing the crusader’s crossbow also has over every other medic primary is something not even listed on the weapon itself. It passively reloads itself, you can heal someone with a crossbow, switch to your medigun and when you switch back your crossbow is already reloaded
What downsides does a crossbow have?
"I'm Not Here To Support The Violence. I AM The Violence" - Casual Player That Doesn't Like Picking Medic
Counterpoint: nobody plays medic
It blows my mind that he glossed over the Solemn Vow.
Also the use case of the syringe gun unlocks isn’t to kill enemies, it’s to boost your survivability while you escape back to your team. The Blutsauger and Overdose accomplish this. He suggests that those unlocks fail at their use-case, but that’s false. What makes them obsolete is that the crossbow exists.
All these clips of him running into the enemy team up in a Soldier’s face trying to syringe him makes me not want to like this video :/
imagine not useing the ausse blutsaguer stock medigun and strange bonesaw like i do
I can't avoid being a hopeless contrarian and preach the word of the amputator, I just think it's gameplay is more fun than the ubersaw
Fantastic video BTW!
14:20 I feel like this really depends on if you can actually land your crossbow shot or not.
I play medic, I love the gameplay and the way the class works. But why I don't play him more often? It's because teams are usually not balanced in casual. If both sides are balanced, the fights are a little bit longet, it us not a roll and the team actually cares about their med, it's the most fun I can have. But when it's bad, my team is dumb and stuff like that... it's just easier to go play soldier or something and hope for the best
I don’t think giving more healing to other classes is the solution. There’s a reason that pyro is the only class that has fire(no the cow mangler doesn’t count). It’s part of his identity. Same goes for medic. Besides giving the classes more healing really doesn’t fix the problem that medic has a primary and melee so superior that all the others can’t even carve out a niche. I think this is why buffing the other weapons is probably better.
My ideas for some buffs for medics weapons:
- Syringe guns: give the syringes more velocity. Allow them to get Uber on hit.
- Vitasaw: rework the weapon completely. allow it to heal your teammates with a melee hit.
- overdose: 20% speed boost all the time when the weapon is out(this was in the video)
- Amputator: Give the medic the ability to cancel the taunt. Maybe bump up the heals slightly. Allow the healing from it to give overheal.
How about having the amputator store energy gained by damage dealt by any means and activating it to AoE heal for a while, kinda like a cleaners carabine, that way you can AoE while still being mobile and having access to faster healing with the medigun, if needed maybe the healing speed of the medigun could be lowered a bit during the ability
I'd argue your amputator segment of the video solidified my belief that it's the worst medic melee. The fact that even in it's niche case scenarios, even in those it's still bad? Why even use it then? You lose out in healing AND uber gain, you become stationary target, and I'd argue you learn bad habits, like not learning how to find your own medkits and using taunt to heal or standing with melee to heal, even tho healing teammates also speeds up your own self heal regen... It's so bad outside of medieval that I think multiple buffs would still not make it op, but here's a couple of em.
1) Make it build uber the dame amount if not MORE then if you did it manually, considering how amp taunt is a hazard for both medic(becoming stationary target) and your team(grouping up for easy kills) I think med could be rewarded with extra uber for this, although it might be op so just reduce uber lost on amp heals to not be as severe.
2) Make you able yo move while taunting. And or make taunt cancelable (this one might make it op since comp players hate loopable taunts)
3) Make amp extra healing passive, either you don't have to pull it out to get extra heals or remove this weird mechanic where you don't instantly get maximum health regen and have to wait a couple of seconds(this rework might make this item op, depending on how much we do it)
4) Make Amp give you more hp during a taunt and/or... Make it *overheal you* This might be actually OP... Ok it is but I still like the idea.
5) Increase it's healing range?
6) Bold idea but how about removing taunt gimmick altogether and just make medic have heal aura by holding the melee itself? It would eliminate issue of being stationary target, team leaving your heal aura.
7) Maybe amp healing gives buffs besides healing? Like a small speed boost?
Edit: 8) Give medic resists while taunting and maybe crit resist, if you make them big enough you might even turn Medic into... Tank? Ehh, still an interesting idea, it may make this into a "panic button" type of weapon, giving you time to think while you heal and have resists.
I think making stock (or all) needleguns heal teammates would be a good start. Then medics could pick the crossbow for single target, long range, burst heal or the needlegun for long range, sustained, spray-into-the-team healing.
The overdose isn't supposed to be used ONLY when you have 100% ubercharge, you can whip it out every time your pocket dies and if you have even half your ubercharge filled up the speed difference might save your ass, you can use it to traverse the map when there's no one around to heal or you're trying to reach a teammate faster, you can use it to retreat easily rather than fighting with the ubersaw, it's like this guy forgets he can just switch weapons when each is needed, like when the Pyro needs to pull out their Powerjack to reach someone or to retreat/traverse areas faster, in casual that can easily save your teammates who're too blind to see where you are so they don't go get health as they burn from the 5th pyro scorch shot they've eaten. As for the amputator, it's the same, you don't use it ALL the time, the medigun doesn't restrict you from switching to the amputator when you need it, admittedly the AoE healing isn't that great in casual but the +3 healing per second is honestly big to keep healing without having to retreat for medpacks (which the Overdose can also be useful for). I think both are more than viable weapons.
I must also clarify that I'm a completely F2P medic main who can't call medic and has not random unlocked the crossbow, so I have to rely on passive healing and being a little more independent and has to do without the crossbow, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't use the crossbow a whole lot if I just had it lmao
A little disappointed you didn't talk about the solemn vow. It does relate to the main point of medic being rigid to play in casual, but free passive information vs 25% on hit incentives you to take less risks with your melee and go for cheeky picks with the crossbow.
It's a breath of fresh air to medic's meta.
I'm a medic main with 200 hours and I'd say I find it good that Medic is that unique afterall he's called Medic but my Problem with Medic is that he is just painful to play, and he can barely defend himself and we all know Medic's aren't known to be defended well by their teams and usually just don't wanna live life anymore. it's not really fun to have like only two playstyles with the exact same weapons but only the medigun has changed (Stock and kritz), the uber just gives you a great chance to change the match entirely and get rid of strong defenses of the other team or the kritzkrieg which gives you a great oppurtinity at pushing the other team and being offensive to deal massive damage in a short period of time, but that's pretty much it with medic, He's basically just a punchbag for the enemies and for the own team just a person to complain about. So ofc nobody wants to play Medic he is unfun to play and the only reason to play him is because he is the biggest factor why a team wins. I personally find that pretty depressing because I always loved playing support, it's great to support your team and get thanked and even with all those flaws will I continue maining Medic but nowadays I just wish it wouldn't feel like I play him because I have to but rather because I want to.
As a “totally not” battle medic, and medic “true” main. I can hit all my shots (missing 0-3 needles) the +3 helps a lot when I’m low and don’t wanna run for a medicpack. There have been plenty of situations where the reload of the crossbow just feels too slow, and I die while reloading. Another plus to the any of the syringe guns is “you can do chip damage” and is easy to do. just do a little flank spray about 50 needles in the area of the enemy’s (usually a cap point or payload) and run. Combining that with the blutsauger’s +3 health lowering 5 different enemy’s health by a small amount will completely fill up my health and that’s something the “meta” can’t do.
I'd like to see more options for outputting healing from the Medic, like having the quick-fix be AoE healing or the over-dose syringe heals and gives passive speed boost, maybe the vita saw lets medics throw out health-packs when collecting organs. Maybe changing the Blutesauger to be a DMR type weapon. With the amputator it could be on a charge meter and gives a defensive buff or speed boost.
There's a lot of potential within the class already to make for interesting decisions on how to play medic. But I agree that right now medic's gameplay is quite stale.
I don't see how you can take away positives from Shounic's medic revive test, especially when your main complaint about medic is his rigid game play, as the two points I gleamed from his video were:
1. Classes now clumped around their medics even more compulsively than before, making medic hugging their defacto objective, providing less branching out and coordination of team pushes.
And 2. Matches would go on way longer than needed due to how long the revive pedestals stayed active for, as showcased by the one clip of a medic bringing back four deceased classes after a skirmish, when it should be more balanced to only have the time to bring back two at most.
As a medic main I agree with some of the points made, like how normal medic can get stale after a long while of playing, but the idea that adding more varied sources of healing will "lighten his shoulders to play less rigid" sounds ridiculous to me.
To me, the biggest fun I have while playing medic doesn't come from anything I do... it's the wacky and unbelievable plays my team around me does. Satisfaction as medic usually comes when a stupid play that would have never succeeded without medic's abilities ends up actually working, like making a classic sniper only push into the enemy Intel on 2fort... or protecting several Buffalo steak sandwich heavies (the classic sniper example actually happened once on a 2fort game and it was darn hilarious!).
It may sound cheesy or stupid, but I like being the backbone of other people's dumb fun in this game. So to me, giving other classes the ability to pull off things like this just as easily would actually take away from medic's fun, not increase it.
His fun comes from his uniqueness, and it's how you apply that uniqueness to your team that makes a game fun.
Edit: This also isn't even getting into how making medic less unique in his healing prowess would ultimately mess with pick classes like spy and scout, who often give their lives to dispatch an enemy medic. If other classes are given the ability to heal in a similar vein to medic, then what would be the point of these picks?
Suddenly the work load for these classes becomes much higher, and subsequently makes them much weaker (as shounic also described in his test video when talking about spy).
You might think as a medic main I'd enjoy seeing pick classes made weaker... but no. I actually have a lot of respect for spy, sniper, and scout players. Even though I die to them more than any other, I still think they're a necessary counter to medic and make him even more fun to play when attempting to play more seriously.
I use quickfix and amputator. Healing (and not dying, to an extent) is my motto and I’m really bad at it.
Plus, the overdose works pretty well too with my incredibly bad strat, as I can run in after being weirdly away from the fight and do… something
Ok I se the point now, but still, I tend to get away on accident a ton, so simply running around is my best option as I do not trust myself to hit crossbow shots or melee hits and do not trust myself to pop Ubers right.
TL:DR I am a medic main, but not a good one so I find the amputator and overdose to be nice.
Theory-Y Studios made videos of how to buff both the Melee and Primary weapons, as well as buffing quick fix and nerfing vaccinator.
The reason I play medic is to feel like the anchor leading my team to victory. My journey started as a pyro main. During a match of badlands, a demo on my team called for medic, then stared at me. I said why not, and switched on the spot. Haven’t looked back since
Medic suffers so fucking bad from being the meta that it's genuinely unfun to use them. I use the Overdose and the Amputator/Vow...and it's so much more fun zooming around or 'bumrushing' some scout that assumed you could only hit him once every second or so. It's funny.
The crossbow I feel was a mistake...a mistake that has kneecapped medic so much in gameplay...and the ubersaw makes me angry...stop chasing enemies and fucking heal please!
I dont think uniqueness can ever be classified as a problem.
Idea: how about a medigun that you can use while using uber?
Stats: -25% damage, -50% magazine capacity, +50% reloading time, -33% uber length. When using ubercharge, automatically switch to this weapon and the healing beam does not disconnect until max range. The syringes deal critical damage to enemies until the uber ends.
You really didnt say anything about the title of the video in the intire video and controdicted yourself. Basically said medics unlocks are overshadowed. It took soo much time to say such a simple thing.
HAVE A POINT
At the end of the video you just said the conclusion without any prior talking of the subject.
Medics uniqueness doesnt make it rigid look at spy he has only really one playstyle get behind and backstab. But still has varying ways to do it with small adjustments
Using the amputator like an idiot just to gather the few clips for the video... Neat job, you've done the same 100% of the other videos talking about Medic did.
Nothing that interesting, same information I've heard a zillion times how "Crossbow, stock, Ubersaw best combo." At least this isn't gonna change any time soon...
On the amputator, from a fellow medic main; If it were that you had to fill some sort of meter to use the taunt, and the healing of the taunt was the same as healing all those in the AOE with the quick-fix, it would be *way* better. Maybe you had to heal 500 health to use it, it would need some testing so who knows how the meter would be filled, but if it were like that maybe it would surpass the Ubersaw. Not like any of this matters though, *unless a steam workshop creator is reading this and made a community fix for the summer update.*