@@joanaguayoplanell4912same! I often find myself instinctively pulling out my melee while running away with any other melee. This for some reason also extends to other similar speed classes, like sniper and spy, but that also might be because of my uses of the Powerjack, Disciplinary Action, and Gloves of Running Urgently. Generally weapons that are good for retreating if need be, but it made a habit to where even if im using a melee that has no in hand benefit, i'll still pull it out while retreating. I promise ive never played counterstrike
Thank you THANK YOU for reminding people of the "Ubersaw Blindness" the weapon encourages. I once had a Medic ABANDON their pocket and chase me (as PYRO) trying to get that stupid melee hit. The man actually said, "I tried" in chat. As though it were some sort of calculated risk that didn't quite pan out.
Medic was always my least played class, up until December of 2023. By then I had like 35-40 hours on him, but now I have like 190 at least, only about 30 more to make medic my most played. (I have approx. 2060 total hours in this game, for reference.)
Perfect analogy. People have also called both too strong compared to their alternatives, but experienced medics or spies respectively know that's not the case.
@@ME0WMERE The deadringer has also been nerfed to shit, and the Ubersaw was never touched. Deadringer whenever you could still pickup ammo for cloak was nice
@@svovy5358 yeah, I'd say deadringer performs worse than stock most of the time some spies use it for extremely aggressive playstyles, which can be annoying to play against, until you realise they could have twice the kills and a fraction of the deaths if they just used stock
@@ME0WMERE Interesting i agree. But im curious?, do you have anything to say about the pre-nerf Deadringer? Where the only real downside was the noise? I wasnt anywhere near as good at the game back then, but my evaluation is that it was actually pretty good, or they wouldnt have nerfed it so hard.
@@svovy5358 oh, I haven't been playing the game nearly long enough to have experience with it pre-nerf haha. From what I can hear from other good spies, if they had removed the speed boost instead of disallowing ammo pickup to replenish the cloak, it might have been a somewhat balanced item now.
I too was once a victim of Ubersaw blindness. One day, I was playing 5CP Foundry, me and my team were pushing second last. That’s when I noticed in the corner of my eye, a runaway burning spy. I knew it was stupid to try to melee him, I knew I should have just focused on healing, but I was around 80% Uber, one hit, and we basically win. So I run after him with the Ubersaw and- *BOOM!* I GET TRICKSTABBED AND MY TEAM GETS ABSOLUTELY OBLITERATED WITHIN THE NEXT FEW SECONDS! The round ended with an underwhelming stalemate… From that day forward, I vowed to never use the Ubersaw again, and have since switched to the Amputator.
If i had a nickel for every time i went to the zoo, returned to my car, and there was a medic 101 video waiting for me to listen to on my drive home i’d have two nickels. which isn’t much but it’s weird that it happened twice
I always looked at it like this; The Ubersaw will _occasionally_ provide you with an *incredible* benefit The Solemn Vow will *constantly* provide you with a _great_ benefit I'm a stock uber enjoyer and I hold that consistency is king. The Solemn Vow just provides more value in more situations, and therefore it's my go to.
5:23 Wait, you can pick up a medigun and get its uber percentage? So if an enemy med drops instead of pops, you can just pick up a free uber? Holy shit, I've been playing TF2 for over 10 years and had no idea
Yes, however the uber charge in a dropped medigun loses its charge very quickly like uber was popped so if u want to grab it must be immediately after the med was dropped There is also the risk that picking the medigun might have less charge than what u had, and if u pick it up now ur main medigun is on the floor losing charge so it's a gamble unless u just finished ur uber
Am I really so strange for using the Amputator? It's a really freaking good Medic melee! Extra health regen while held helps with fleeing from a failed push. The AOE heal from the taunt is also very handy as long as you have the sense to use it from cover. EDIT: Fixed a typo.
what significant passive buffs does the amputator give? the extra regen is only while you're holding your melee, and as a medic you're supposed to be holding your medigun 90% of the time
@@hannayapelekai1628 lol. I thought it's passive regen, but it's not. But amputator's taunt sometimes is really powerful, like when you heal 7 people in 26 hp/s speed. Solemn vow is better in passive, amputator became a bit less useful, thanks for that
Laughs in the ancient knowledge that the Amputator heals exactly 1 hit point per second faster than the medigun. No really though, its surprising how many matches you can win with the ability to heal 3 or 4 people at once and slightly faster than the medigun at that. I find my preferences sit between Amputator and Solem Vow.
Same. The Amputator has been in my melee slot for almost as long as I've been playing Medic, and it's strange part has more healing done counted that all my Mediguns combined from all the times I've used it to patch up the entire team after wiping out the opponent's with my Ubercharge (usually the Vaccinator's). SUPER underrated. The best part is when you are defending a choke point, you can spam the Vaccinator shields and swap to the taunt and now, for a couple of seconds, the enemy team has to deal with FOUR players taking a quarter of the damage and effectively being healed 100 HP per second.
@@ILiekFishes It actually does build uber, however its a lot slower. Plus, the point isnt single-target burst healing, its AOE healing. (Also yes, it IS affected by crit heals) Edit: heres the numbers for comparison: Medigun: HPs-24 CHPs-72 Amputator: HPs-23-26 CHPs-71-78 Note: The amputators actual healing per second is a bit unclear, since the healing starts slightly after the taunt starts, the 23 and 71 are assuming it starts instantly but in my experience, it starts about 0.4 seconds after the taunt actually starts (with the windup), hence the second set of numbers. I might actually have to test these in a sandbox setting to confirm it, but with the math I just did technically it could potentially heal 2 hit points per second faster, or 1 less. Will have to fact check myself
Yall are overthinking this. The best melee is my conscientious objector, because it has a picture of my cat on it and I love sharing him with the world
As a medicmain who grew up with the ubersaw, but switched to vow about 4 years ago once it got unbanned, I applaud this video! I switched as soon as it got unbanned and never looked back. In some situations I still equip the ubersaw (close quater HL maps, where spy can do the comms, and you're more likely to get within melee range due to small map size) but solemn vow 99% of the time. Really well put together video, and you explained the subtle differences in tactics very well. Best medic youtuber out there for sure, I hope many new medics learn a lot :)
Great video! I've been using the vow for a while now and I also prefer it over the ubersaw. The only time I"ll switch to the ubersaw is when I die when the round is about to end or if the other team has a bonk scout. I think another reason the ubersaw is so popular is the fun factor of it. Going for a risky swing and being rewarded for it, is a lot more fun and engaging than simply reading enemy health and uber. Medic is already seen as the class nobody wants to play, because of how passive and conservative his playstyle is. Even if medic shouldn't melee people and often dies for it, I totally get why people are okay with taking that risk, especially since the ubersaw doesn't have a significant downside.
Just yesterday I was playing engi. I watched my nest go down and the enemy med charged me with his ubersaw. He proceeded to die to 2 shotgun shells to the face.
You can't mention the ubersaw encouraging taking risky fights with spies then leave out the solemn vow encouraging taking risky fights with snipers. Still love the solemn vow though.
@Bnvnu lucky? Snipers just come into your melee range? Usually, they are controlling a sightline. Or wait... are you talking about crossbowing snipers?
@@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755 yea, a fight is one where both side can attack each other, otherwise, it's a steamroll. i do the same thing with the loch n load, i love to challenge snipers
True, that’s definitely not a smart thing to do even if it is funny at times. I completely blanked on that because I don’t think I’ve ever seen newer medic players trying to to spam arrows for picks in the same way you see new medic players go for ubersaw swings. If a medic is using the solemn vow in conjunction with the crossbow to try and pick a sniper 99% of the time they are good enough to know it’s not the “correct” play but just want the funny payoff.
I have 2000+ hours in tf2 and today i learned the solemn vow doesnt have to be active for you to see enemy health. Gonna have to equip it again for the first time in a decade
When you were talking about inexperienced Medics, I am surprised that you didn't mention the Amputator when talking about training for good positioning. My mind wandered to being "rewarded for good positioning" and while I recognize that standing still is always a bad idea, it might be a good idea to reinforce where a newer player IS and IS NOT allowed to be for extended periods of time. And it even further agrees with "don't rely on melee or crits from it" by lowering the damage you're allowed to do in the first place.
i think the ubersaw is actually pretty similar to everybodys favorite pair: the kunai and deadringer, hear me out, the kunai is very good and busted in games where there are tons of bad players, the fresh install heavy, the ultra locked-in (tunnel visioned) sniper, you know the ones, and you get to farm health from it, similarly, you get to farm uber of those same players, getting 25% per swing, however, the kunai falls off HARD when the skill increases, because there are less bad players to feed off of, and just like the kunai, you get less uber from those f2p players walking up to you, giving you free saws with no risk, and as the skill increases, other knifes start to become more viable, because they give actual benifits (yer give more confusion, big earner is for escaping, spycicle is for survivability, and stock for consistency), and those benefits start to become more prevalent because you cant just feed off of players, and the saw is the same way. as skill increases, you have less opportunities where you can just walk in and get a free 75%, and the passive info of the solemn vow actually becomes more useful (I would say that other medic melees become more viable, but they all just suck), and the saw is less "free" because there is actual risk. the ubersaw, i think, is similar to the dead ringer in the way of random crits. as you addressed in the video, people run in with the saw, 1 shot a spy and get 25%, and they think "wow! i should keep doing that!", when instead they should be thinking about how to avoid the situation all together. in the case of the dead ringer, you get rewarded heavily for bad positioning and timing, so much so that walking in the front lines as a scout and getting hit instantly give the spy a speed boost, insane damage resist, and no flashing for 3 seconds, so they keep doing that, because they keep getting rewarded, when instead better positioning can actually help MORESO than the dead ringer. i think of it like getting a theoretical get-out-of-jail-free card. the card isnt "hey i can go to jail once for no consequences!" it is instead, "if i do something bad for whatever reason, i have 1 shot to not fuck up again", and getting a quick 25% when you shouldnt even BE THERE is rewarding players for situations they shouldnt survive, no less get rewarded for, so newer meds start to play un-optimally for the CHANCE of a sweet, sweet 25%.
Another banger classic from Theory-y. Was gonna write my own comments on the subject before watching but I decided to watch the video first-you covered everything I would have said. Perfect video. Keep up the amazing work!
Great video! I clicked on this video ready to dismiss your points on the Solemn Vow (because I used to use Solemn Vow and never found myself using it much) and root for the ubersaw (25% Uber is 25% Uber) but i closed it actually finding Solemn Vow as a solid competitor to the Ubersaw. (Because in most games, I don’t really get to use my melee anyways, so extra information is always nice over 25% Uber. Also, being able to see enemy health probably allowed me to walk away from losing fights more time than not, even if I might have forgotten that) I suppose the pick for medic melee depends on the skill of the enemy team. (ubersaw is less effective when the enemy doesn’t allow you to gain that 25% Uber, Solemn Vow is more effective against experienced teams when you desperately need that information to walk out of each fight alive.) Thanks once again for the perspective!
Solemn Vow so underrated. Sure, in pubs people just give you free uber saws because they're bad, but against good players? Much rather be able to pick my fights.
As a former medic main I fucking love ubersaw (and random crits). Think what makes medic special from other "Support" class from class based game is how bold medic can be
Would you either want a melee that grants uber from the enemy you're going to oneshot with a random crit. Or a melee that let's you know the health of the enemy you're going to oneshot with a random crit.
would you want a high risk weapon which puts you in a dangerous position and could potentially nullify the buff it gives due to well, death or be not a menace and help your team
I believe the swing speed penalty for melees only affects the swing **recovery** speed, so your first hit will always land at the same time. I know this is the case for the market gardener, so it's easy to assume it's the case for these other weapons.
Bro thanks so much for the ubersaw callout, i always wondered why i died so fast as medic, its because i really want to battle med and cant and just die
I totally agree with your reasoning on the Ubersaw. I personally always use the amputator, because I'm always, always trying to retreat if an enemy gets close to me
In the same style as the description: So the Amputator, it's like, you’re holding this bonesaw, right? But it’s not just a bonesaw, it’s a magical violin of pain and healing. You swing it, and it’s sharp, it cuts, it hurts, it maims like a regular saw, but then-wait-what's this? You stop. You pause. You raise it to the heavens, and suddenly, you’re not just a Medic, you’re a maestro, a conductor of health, playing the sweetest, weirdest symphony, and the notes aren't notes-they’re healing waves, invisible pulses of life that spread out from you like ripples in some cosmic pond. Your teammates? They feel it, they feel you, and their wounds close, their pain melts away, and it’s all because you decided to shred on this macabre musical instrument in the middle of a battlefield. And then there’s the sound, that eerie, haunting sound, like something from a twisted fairytale, where violins weep and the trees whisper secrets that only the mad can understand. But you’re not mad, you’re the Medic, the healer, the one who turns a battlefield into a concert hall of salvation. But oh, the irony-it’s called the Amputator, but it doesn’t just take; it gives, and gives, and gives, until everyone around you is drowning in your melody, saved by your grotesque serenade. But do you swing, or do you play? Do you slice through sinew with cold efficiency, or do you raise your instrument and summon the power of life itself? It doesn’t matter, because it’s all the same-a dance of saws and strings, blood and balm, where you’re the puppet master and the battlefield is your stage. You’re not just healing-you’re performing, a show for the ages, a twisted, beautiful, chaotic ballet where you’re both the savior and the executioner, all in one. In the end, are you the surgeon who cuts away the rot, or the bard who plays the song of life? It doesn’t matter, because nothing matters, and everything is just a swirling symphony of saw-blades and violin strings, where Medics reign as the mad maestros of the battlefield, playing their twisted tunes until the final note fades into silence.
I use only amputator at this point. It's partially out of spite to throw a middle finger towards the Uber saw, but it's much more because I love being able to heal my entire team with a single button press. The only two things I think should be changed is that you should be able to continuously do the taunt, and you should be able to end the taunt after 1 second of doing it. I've run into way too many situations where I taunt to heal, my team decided right then and there is the perfect time to retreat, and then an enemy soldier comes barreling in and gets an easy kill on me
I love using the Solemn vow. Being able to make out the weaker enemies on the enemy team and jumpscaring them with a singular, lethal meelee hit is just super fun
18:50 I beef like my whole clip and you are barely living after that uber and you STILL try to pick up their medigun, that is legendary levels of greed. Idk how you have like the lowest deaths in the div
I really like using the Solemn Vow because it allows you to pick battles very effectively. If you get caught out without a teammate, either because they died to a push or you got separated, seeing what the enemy's health is at can allow you to decide to fight instead of run, as if they're low enough fighting is the better of the two options and the one that's more likely to succeed. Plus, the Overdose is my favorite medic primary. It's fun as hell, and allows you to get out of a bad situation quicker. Plus, if you decide to fight then you can literally outrun many classes by just backpedaling. The entire Clinical Trial set has some pretty good synergy - the quick fix lets you build uber faster, making better use of the Overdose's upsides, and the Solemn Vow allows you to make more informed decisions in a fight-or-flee scenario, which the Overdose makes you better at with its speed.
@@owenblount7334 Sure, but you're far off in combat way more often than you are in melee. If you're in a melee battle with someone, you're doing something wrong.
Counter point: The Solemn Vow decreases in viability the better you are at the game, especially in Casual or community servers. You can honestly guestimate or estimate enemy health and uber and be on the nose about all those numbers. Additionally its a good assumption to say any player that you didn’t see take damage is always at max overheal HP and simply run away anyways. That’s why I think the Amputator is underrated. Healing while running away can be a life saver no matter the skill level and is a lot less situational than that “Soldier at 67 Health who is bombing you but you’re in a situation where 1 swing on him is safer than running away but 2 swings is deadlier than both”
It is, agreed. But there's a reason this guy happens to be the kinda dude that can carry casual matches as medic whereas the rest (myself included) are glorified dispensers.
I still love the critical fear factor that the Uber saw still gives to enemies attacking you as a Medic. If they choose to attack you but somehow screw up and get hit by the Uber saw, they just made a terrible mistake. As a result, enemies might choose to attack you from afar more where it's way easier to position yourself safely. But I do agree that the Vow has a much more consistent benefit.
The Ubersaw can never replicate the feeling of approaching a low health power class pretending to be all tough when you know that you'll take them down in one swing.
This was a very nice breakdown on the two options. I'm looking forward to the videos to come about the other melee weapons. Been really enjoying Kritz with Vita saw, because getting that charge back even quicker really does feel like the gambler loadout for medic.
We gonna talk about the absolutely fucking sick play at 28:18? Like you're just gonna casually drop 2v1ing a medic/demo combo as medic without even bringing it up?
Im just here bc i found my sec main. i found it bc no one in my team plays medic and they wont stop screaming MEDIC! once i become one. Now i feel how medic main feels
1:33 I am pretty sure this is because what the devs did is subtract 25% uber gain from hitting disguised spies, which for the end of the taunt does 75-25=50.
Minor correction. If two players swing their melee at the same time but one of them has a swing speed penalty, whoever joined the server first hits their swing. Even if the slower swinging melee had a 900% slower swing speed, it would still register a hit at the same time. Swing speed affects how long you have to wait between swings without changing when in the swing the hit occurs. Because of that, modifying a melee to have a fast enough swing speed will actually prevent the melee from dealing damage so long as the attack button is being held down.
Alternativly : Medieval mode : Not the most popular game mode but if we review all Medic melees ( that have some upsides, unlike organ harvesting ) : The Solemn Vow is the best melee, seeing enemy health let’s you engage the fight or just pick that low Demoknight with 12 head. You already have a crossbow to heal so you don’t really loose the amputator and it helps you sniping the final control point or the snipers that are on the roof. ( people are sleeping on this hidden gem, and even if you hit a teammate you are healing them, seeing the enemy health is giving them a neon sign screaming « I’m an easy target » ) Plus it let’s you play more risky, you don’t have any uber to loose so go wild and do some flashy stuff. The downside doesn’t exist since you better switch your weapons after each attack. The Ubersaw is the worst, the only upside is the taunt kill so good luck with that. Stock is stock definitely a valid pick and I would say it’s better than the amputator but it depends if you are on defense or offense plus funny pan or ham are totally medieval weapons :) The amputator is only viable on defense, on offense the defender won’t let you use the taunt.
Ubersaw Also solemn vow is barely worth it if you’re constantly with your team, ubersaw and amputator should be the top 2, the area heal of the amputator is EXTREMELY underrated, like especially on maps like dustbowl or other chokey maps 3:22 how are MORE people using the crusader’ crossbow than the SAPPER LIKE IT’S THE STOCK SAPPER WITH 1 ALTERNATIVE NOBODY USES, AT LEAST SOME PEOPLE USE THE BLUTSAUGER OR OVERDOSE SOMETIMES BECAUSE OF EITHER BATTLE MEDIC OR NOT HAVING THE CROSSBOW
I use the blutsauger because the game puts me on the team with absolute lobotomites that can’t kill jack even with a medic up their butt for balance reasons
@owenblount7334 for that situation I use quick fix over blut cause it keeps people alive so that they can kill, but its uber isn't that good for offence or defence so best as a party medic instead of a main medic
I love sniping players who don't know, that the CB has inverse damage falloff. My favourite are Demos or Soldiers spamming longrange podshot, thinking they are save. Nailing a low HP Sniper is satisfying, but damn risky.
I always felt "required" to use the ubersaw unless I was playing on Fishstick's rebalance server, even though I preffered the solemn vow. I'm happy I didn't fall into the aggressiveness trap due to my inherent passive playstyle at least and I feel more justified for preffering the solemn vow
Funny editing choice of playing a version of The Imperial March over you discussing the dark side of Ûbersaw. Well played, in several different senses!
The biggest downside to both weapons is that you get Ubersaw or Solemn Vow withdrawals when not using them.
This happens to me with the Amputator instead.
@@joanaguayoplanell4912same! I often find myself instinctively pulling out my melee while running away with any other melee. This for some reason also extends to other similar speed classes, like sniper and spy, but that also might be because of my uses of the Powerjack, Disciplinary Action, and Gloves of Running Urgently. Generally weapons that are good for retreating if need be, but it made a habit to where even if im using a melee that has no in hand benefit, i'll still pull it out while retreating.
I promise ive never played counterstrike
both of there down sides are minus 20 attack speed
The Solemn Vow is superior because the Ubersaw doesn’t have a mod to make it a Moai head
i have a mod that makes it looks like a statue of Monika. Just monika. Just monika. Just monika. Just monika.
Where do you get the Moai head solemn vow? This is a need
@@Saxxy_Mann Saw it on gamebanana
🗿
YO ANGELO🚬🗿🍷
the best part of the ubersaw and most medic melees in general its seeing the medic get his swing block by a teammate and then die with 75% uber
The best part about ubersaw medics is that they're easy way to learn side-step stab
@@realdragon no joke a lot of the meds i see end up getting trickstab unless someone else body block the spy
I will say when I used Solemn Vow in Highlander, enemy Spies were more aggressive because they didn't worry about giving me +25
that'd be one hell of a mind game, play with the vow and when spies are being aggro switch and maybe catch them out for an advantage
The Chad Amputator gets it's own video. Imagine not healing your team all at once.
3:22 I love that the Schadenfreude is the #4 item in the list truly showing how iconic and universal appreised that taunt is
Reject meta, embrace Pan
reject meta, embrace nigga
"face stabbed or trick stabbed as spy mains prefer to call it"
man got trickstabbed one too many times
Thank you THANK YOU for reminding people of the "Ubersaw Blindness" the weapon encourages. I once had a Medic ABANDON their pocket and chase me (as PYRO) trying to get that stupid melee hit.
The man actually said, "I tried" in chat. As though it were some sort of calculated risk that didn't quite pan out.
ay i think that guy was me
It was always You. In every universe.
We welcome you again to the Twilight Zone.
I mean, ubersaw crits
@@vappyreon1176 Sadly, it was on Uncletopia.
@@KeroTheInvincible that makes it even worse
As one sea dweller said: “All discussions around medic melees have to pretend the ubersaw doesn’t exist”
Solemn vow is superior in comp
I love making a comment before watching a video
@@Svar3n2527isn’t the Solemn Vow banned in certain comp formats?
@@JackNick2000 it's allowed in etf2l 6s and highlander don't know about other formats either way banning it is kinda weird
Don’t be an Ubersaw Andy
The more i watch your videos, the more and more i play medic
I'm so sorry
Thats so real
Same here- this man has made me go from maining spy to maining medic-
@@shawwfia8650 He saved you
Medic was always my least played class, up until December of 2023. By then I had like 35-40 hours on him, but now I have like 190 at least, only about 30 more to make medic my most played. (I have approx. 2060 total hours in this game, for reference.)
The Ubersaw is to Medic as the Dead Ringer is to Spy. Appealing to new players, forms bad habits in their playstyle.
Perfect analogy. People have also called both too strong compared to their alternatives, but experienced medics or spies respectively know that's not the case.
@@ME0WMERE The deadringer has also been nerfed to shit, and the Ubersaw was never touched.
Deadringer whenever you could still pickup ammo for cloak was nice
@@svovy5358 yeah, I'd say deadringer performs worse than stock most of the time
some spies use it for extremely aggressive playstyles, which can be annoying to play against, until you realise they could have twice the kills and a fraction of the deaths if they just used stock
@@ME0WMERE Interesting i agree. But im curious?, do you have anything to say about the pre-nerf Deadringer? Where the only real downside was the noise?
I wasnt anywhere near as good at the game back then, but my evaluation is that it was actually pretty good, or they wouldnt have nerfed it so hard.
@@svovy5358 oh, I haven't been playing the game nearly long enough to have experience with it pre-nerf haha. From what I can hear from other good spies, if they had removed the speed boost instead of disallowing ammo pickup to replenish the cloak, it might have been a somewhat balanced item now.
I too was once a victim of Ubersaw blindness. One day, I was playing 5CP Foundry, me and my team were pushing second last. That’s when I noticed in the corner of my eye, a runaway burning spy. I knew it was stupid to try to melee him, I knew I should have just focused on healing, but I was around 80% Uber, one hit, and we basically win. So I run after him with the Ubersaw and- *BOOM!* I GET TRICKSTABBED AND MY TEAM GETS ABSOLUTELY OBLITERATED WITHIN THE NEXT FEW SECONDS!
The round ended with an underwhelming stalemate…
From that day forward, I vowed to never use the Ubersaw again, and have since switched to the Amputator.
If i had a nickel for every time i went to the zoo, returned to my car, and there was a medic 101 video waiting for me to listen to on my drive home i’d have two nickels. which isn’t much but it’s weird that it happened twice
You should go to the zoo more often
@harrymanocha4533 we all should go to the zoo more often
@@apollosiebert8456I went to the zoo a couple days ago
And anytime a group of animals together is called a zoo!
Unless it's a farm!
I always looked at it like this;
The Ubersaw will _occasionally_ provide you with an *incredible* benefit
The Solemn Vow will *constantly* provide you with a _great_ benefit
I'm a stock uber enjoyer and I hold that consistency is king. The Solemn Vow just provides more value in more situations, and therefore it's my go to.
That's why I want the solemn vow in my loadout. *If I have any*
@This-is-not-K trade it on scrap tf
Whereas I am a gambler at heart kriztkreg plus saw for the win baby always bet on Hikari
the whole vow vs ubersaw debate is just: free information vs suicide by enemy player
There's a debate to begin with?
Sounds like a skill issue were you perish in vain I get free uber charge
@@owenblount7334 against good players the few cases of free uber are inferior to the information gained
5:23 Wait, you can pick up a medigun and get its uber percentage? So if an enemy med drops instead of pops, you can just pick up a free uber? Holy shit, I've been playing TF2 for over 10 years and had no idea
Yes, however the uber charge in a dropped medigun loses its charge very quickly like uber was popped so if u want to grab it must be immediately after the med was dropped
There is also the risk that picking the medigun might have less charge than what u had, and if u pick it up now ur main medigun is on the floor losing charge so it's a gamble unless u just finished ur uber
Unless you have the vow and can see if they enemy medic had a higher uber charge or not. Another point for the vow.
I was going to say that weapon pickups weren't always in the game, but then I remembered that Gun Mettle was over 9 years ago.
Wild.
Am I really so strange for using the Amputator? It's a really freaking good Medic melee! Extra health regen while held helps with fleeing from a failed push. The AOE heal from the taunt is also very handy as long as you have the sense to use it from cover.
EDIT: Fixed a typo.
7:35 yes! That's why I use amputator or solemn vow - they punish you for taking unnecessary risks with situationally strong abilities
what significant passive buffs does the amputator give? the extra regen is only while you're holding your melee, and as a medic you're supposed to be holding your medigun 90% of the time
@@hannayapelekai1628 lol. I thought it's passive regen, but it's not. But amputator's taunt sometimes is really powerful, like when you heal 7 people in 26 hp/s speed. Solemn vow is better in passive, amputator became a bit less useful, thanks for that
Another benefit that is not mentioned often is the fact that you can see their username to know instantly who is who
Which does TheZambambo imply
Can’t wait to have actual medics in casual for like…a week cause of this vid
Bunch of morons halving my uber rate! ARGH!
Laughs in the ancient knowledge that the Amputator heals exactly 1 hit point per second faster than the medigun.
No really though, its surprising how many matches you can win with the ability to heal 3 or 4 people at once and slightly faster than the medigun at that. I find my preferences sit between Amputator and Solem Vow.
Same. The Amputator has been in my melee slot for almost as long as I've been playing Medic, and it's strange part has more healing done counted that all my Mediguns combined from all the times I've used it to patch up the entire team after wiping out the opponent's with my Ubercharge (usually the Vaccinator's). SUPER underrated.
The best part is when you are defending a choke point, you can spam the Vaccinator shields and swap to the taunt and now, for a couple of seconds, the enemy team has to deal with FOUR players taking a quarter of the damage and effectively being healed 100 HP per second.
great, it's still worse than crit heals and arrows and doesn't even build uber?
@@ILiekFishes It actually does build uber, however its a lot slower.
Plus, the point isnt single-target burst healing, its AOE healing.
(Also yes, it IS affected by crit heals)
Edit: heres the numbers for comparison:
Medigun:
HPs-24
CHPs-72
Amputator:
HPs-23-26
CHPs-71-78
Note: The amputators actual healing per second is a bit unclear, since the healing starts slightly after the taunt starts, the 23 and 71 are assuming it starts instantly but in my experience, it starts about 0.4 seconds after the taunt actually starts (with the windup), hence the second set of numbers.
I might actually have to test these in a sandbox setting to confirm it, but with the math I just did technically it could potentially heal 2 hit points per second faster, or 1 less. Will have to fact check myself
@@doctorrogue1923 Did you do the sciencing of sciences?
Congrats, you just convinced a amputator medic to try the vow
did you give up yet
@@Mai.Calico nope. But I definitely see it’s purpose. I’ll keep trying but it’s hard.
The amputator is a straight downgrade to mediguns
@@SigilOfBaphomet the extra regen has saved me more times than you’d expect
@@SigilOfBaphomet In 50v50 community servers, amputator is king
Indeed.
🗿🎧 (my bank is holding my credit card from spending so much, so i couldn't get the membership emoji)
@@Mai.Calicodo NOT under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE become a member of
Yall are overthinking this. The best melee is my conscientious objector, because it has a picture of my cat on it and I love sharing him with the world
As a medicmain who grew up with the ubersaw, but switched to vow about 4 years ago once it got unbanned, I applaud this video! I switched as soon as it got unbanned and never looked back. In some situations I still equip the ubersaw (close quater HL maps, where spy can do the comms, and you're more likely to get within melee range due to small map size) but solemn vow 99% of the time.
Really well put together video, and you explained the subtle differences in tactics very well. Best medic youtuber out there for sure, I hope many new medics learn a lot :)
Great video! I've been using the vow for a while now and I also prefer it over the ubersaw. The only time I"ll switch to the ubersaw is when I die when the round is about to end or if the other team has a bonk scout.
I think another reason the ubersaw is so popular is the fun factor of it. Going for a risky swing and being rewarded for it, is a lot more fun and engaging than simply reading enemy health and uber.
Medic is already seen as the class nobody wants to play, because of how passive and conservative his playstyle is. Even if medic shouldn't melee people and often dies for it, I totally get why people are okay with taking that risk, especially since the ubersaw doesn't have a significant downside.
Medic mains punching the air rn knowing their TH-camr is back.
Babe wake up there's a new theory-y video
Just yesterday I was playing engi. I watched my nest go down and the enemy med charged me with his ubersaw. He proceeded to die to 2 shotgun shells to the face.
You can't mention the ubersaw encouraging taking risky fights with spies then leave out the solemn vow encouraging taking risky fights with snipers.
Still love the solemn vow though.
"Fights" with sniper
@@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755 no, just fights. i got many
@Bnvnu lucky? Snipers just come into your melee range? Usually, they are controlling a sightline. Or wait... are you talking about crossbowing snipers?
@@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755 yea, a fight is one where both side can attack each other, otherwise, it's a steamroll. i do the same thing with the loch n load, i love to challenge snipers
True, that’s definitely not a smart thing to do even if it is funny at times. I completely blanked on that because I don’t think I’ve ever seen newer medic players trying to to spam arrows for picks in the same way you see new medic players go for ubersaw swings.
If a medic is using the solemn vow in conjunction with the crossbow to try and pick a sniper 99% of the time they are good enough to know it’s not the “correct” play but just want the funny payoff.
the only person who makes good, detailed and analytical content on playing medic. thank u for ur service
I have 2000+ hours in tf2 and today i learned the solemn vow doesnt have to be active for you to see enemy health.
Gonna have to equip it again for the first time in a decade
15:46 uhh, is it supposed to point at the same line?
I swear these background videos are so sick. Never knew switching mediguns gets their uber percent. You're actually so cool.
I didn't know the solemn vow was actually used by anyone, so that's a surprise
I personally always play with the amputator because it's fun to me :]
note: I've just watched the rest of the video
it shows uber percentage too??????
When you were talking about inexperienced Medics, I am surprised that you didn't mention the Amputator when talking about training for good positioning. My mind wandered to being "rewarded for good positioning" and while I recognize that standing still is always a bad idea, it might be a good idea to reinforce where a newer player IS and IS NOT allowed to be for extended periods of time. And it even further agrees with "don't rely on melee or crits from it" by lowering the damage you're allowed to do in the first place.
i think the ubersaw is actually pretty similar to everybodys favorite pair: the kunai and deadringer, hear me out, the kunai is very good and busted in games where there are tons of bad players, the fresh install heavy, the ultra locked-in (tunnel visioned) sniper, you know the ones, and you get to farm health from it, similarly, you get to farm uber of those same players, getting 25% per swing, however, the kunai falls off HARD when the skill increases, because there are less bad players to feed off of, and just like the kunai, you get less uber from those f2p players walking up to you, giving you free saws with no risk, and as the skill increases, other knifes start to become more viable, because they give actual benifits (yer give more confusion, big earner is for escaping, spycicle is for survivability, and stock for consistency), and those benefits start to become more prevalent because you cant just feed off of players, and the saw is the same way. as skill increases, you have less opportunities where you can just walk in and get a free 75%, and the passive info of the solemn vow actually becomes more useful (I would say that other medic melees become more viable, but they all just suck), and the saw is less "free" because there is actual risk.
the ubersaw, i think, is similar to the dead ringer in the way of random crits. as you addressed in the video, people run in with the saw, 1 shot a spy and get 25%, and they think "wow! i should keep doing that!", when instead they should be thinking about how to avoid the situation all together. in the case of the dead ringer, you get rewarded heavily for bad positioning and timing, so much so that walking in the front lines as a scout and getting hit instantly give the spy a speed boost, insane damage resist, and no flashing for 3 seconds, so they keep doing that, because they keep getting rewarded, when instead better positioning can actually help MORESO than the dead ringer.
i think of it like getting a theoretical get-out-of-jail-free card. the card isnt "hey i can go to jail once for no consequences!" it is instead, "if i do something bad for whatever reason, i have 1 shot to not fuck up again", and getting a quick 25% when you shouldnt even BE THERE is rewarding players for situations they shouldnt survive, no less get rewarded for, so newer meds start to play un-optimally for the CHANCE of a sweet, sweet 25%.
Another banger classic from Theory-y. Was gonna write my own comments on the subject before watching but I decided to watch the video first-you covered everything I would have said. Perfect video. Keep up the amazing work!
Great video! I clicked on this video ready to dismiss your points on the Solemn Vow (because I used to use Solemn Vow and never found myself using it much) and root for the ubersaw (25% Uber is 25% Uber) but i closed it actually finding Solemn Vow as a solid competitor to the Ubersaw. (Because in most games, I don’t really get to use my melee anyways, so extra information is always nice over 25% Uber. Also, being able to see enemy health probably allowed me to walk away from losing fights more time than not, even if I might have forgotten that) I suppose the pick for medic melee depends on the skill of the enemy team. (ubersaw is less effective when the enemy doesn’t allow you to gain that 25% Uber, Solemn Vow is more effective against experienced teams when you desperately need that information to walk out of each fight alive.) Thanks once again for the perspective!
Solemn Vow so underrated. Sure, in pubs people just give you free uber saws because they're bad, but against good players? Much rather be able to pick my fights.
I love your content dude keep it up! You’re as informative as wild rumpus but more entertaining
I watched one of your medic 101 videos and was inspired to play some medic, i went hysterical, but At least i carried the match, thanks for that🙃
7:51 i didn't realize becoming a medic main came with a free prescription of copium
That’s a joke, lad
As a former medic main I fucking love ubersaw (and random crits). Think what makes medic special from other "Support" class from class based game is how bold medic can be
Would you either want a melee that grants uber from the enemy you're going to oneshot with a random crit.
Or a melee that let's you know the health of the enemy you're going to oneshot with a random crit.
would you want a high risk weapon which puts you in a dangerous position and could potentially nullify the buff it gives due to well, death or be not a menace and help your team
I believe the swing speed penalty for melees only affects the swing **recovery** speed, so your first hit will always land at the same time.
I know this is the case for the market gardener, so it's easy to assume it's the case for these other weapons.
I like the solem vow because I die more with the Ubersaw.
Amputator is the best melee and it's not even close.
Finally you went back to your pc, so we can enjoy new med's vids. Thanks!
Thanks for making these medic videos, It helps so much and you are really good at making them interesting!
The solemn vow makes me cry, scream, pee, die, go insane, and eat an entire box of dominoes Parmesan bites, at the same time.
Bro thanks so much for the ubersaw callout, i always wondered why i died so fast as medic, its because i really want to battle med and cant and just die
I totally agree with your reasoning on the Ubersaw. I personally always use the amputator, because I'm always, always trying to retreat if an enemy gets close to me
at 26:08 I think you mean, "The healing is not as rewarding as the hurting"
In the same style as the description:
So the Amputator, it's like, you’re holding this bonesaw, right? But it’s not just a bonesaw, it’s a magical violin of pain and healing. You swing it, and it’s sharp, it cuts, it hurts, it maims like a regular saw, but then-wait-what's this? You stop. You pause. You raise it to the heavens, and suddenly, you’re not just a Medic, you’re a maestro, a conductor of health, playing the sweetest, weirdest symphony, and the notes aren't notes-they’re healing waves, invisible pulses of life that spread out from you like ripples in some cosmic pond. Your teammates? They feel it, they feel you, and their wounds close, their pain melts away, and it’s all because you decided to shred on this macabre musical instrument in the middle of a battlefield.
And then there’s the sound, that eerie, haunting sound, like something from a twisted fairytale, where violins weep and the trees whisper secrets that only the mad can understand. But you’re not mad, you’re the Medic, the healer, the one who turns a battlefield into a concert hall of salvation. But oh, the irony-it’s called the Amputator, but it doesn’t just take; it gives, and gives, and gives, until everyone around you is drowning in your melody, saved by your grotesque serenade.
But do you swing, or do you play? Do you slice through sinew with cold efficiency, or do you raise your instrument and summon the power of life itself? It doesn’t matter, because it’s all the same-a dance of saws and strings, blood and balm, where you’re the puppet master and the battlefield is your stage. You’re not just healing-you’re performing, a show for the ages, a twisted, beautiful, chaotic ballet where you’re both the savior and the executioner, all in one.
In the end, are you the surgeon who cuts away the rot, or the bard who plays the song of life? It doesn’t matter, because nothing matters, and everything is just a swirling symphony of saw-blades and violin strings, where Medics reign as the mad maestros of the battlefield, playing their twisted tunes until the final note fades into silence.
In the 4 minutes and 11 seconds following a ubersaw random crit, the medic is effectively immortal.
Medic mains trying really hard to prove for themselves that the ubersaw isn't just better then anything else
I use only amputator at this point. It's partially out of spite to throw a middle finger towards the Uber saw, but it's much more because I love being able to heal my entire team with a single button press.
The only two things I think should be changed is that you should be able to continuously do the taunt, and you should be able to end the taunt after 1 second of doing it.
I've run into way too many situations where I taunt to heal, my team decided right then and there is the perfect time to retreat, and then an enemy soldier comes barreling in and gets an easy kill on me
I feel old hearing you started playing after jungle infernal, i started in 2012 lmao
I love using the Solemn vow. Being able to make out the weaker enemies on the enemy team and jumpscaring them with a singular, lethal meelee hit is just super fun
18:50 I beef like my whole clip and you are barely living after that uber and you STILL try to pick up their medigun, that is legendary levels of greed. Idk how you have like the lowest deaths in the div
helo!!!!!!!!!! i am just getting started into tf2 and i want to main medic and these videos help me a lot !! :)
thank you so much for them!!
I really like using the Solemn Vow because it allows you to pick battles very effectively. If you get caught out without a teammate, either because they died to a push or you got separated, seeing what the enemy's health is at can allow you to decide to fight instead of run, as if they're low enough fighting is the better of the two options and the one that's more likely to succeed.
Plus, the Overdose is my favorite medic primary. It's fun as hell, and allows you to get out of a bad situation quicker. Plus, if you decide to fight then you can literally outrun many classes by just backpedaling. The entire Clinical Trial set has some pretty good synergy - the quick fix lets you build uber faster, making better use of the Overdose's upsides, and the Solemn Vow allows you to make more informed decisions in a fight-or-flee scenario, which the Overdose makes you better at with its speed.
The description on this vid is poetry ~
we are so back
Thank you for standing up for the Solemn Vow, everyone keeps trashing on it to support the Ubersaw
25% uber on hit is really good if you’re not ass and hitreg doesn’t decide to say nuh-uh
@@owenblount7334 Sure, but you're far off in combat way more often than you are in melee. If you're in a melee battle with someone, you're doing something wrong.
Counter point:
The Solemn Vow decreases in viability the better you are at the game, especially in Casual or community servers.
You can honestly guestimate or estimate enemy health and uber and be on the nose about all those numbers. Additionally its a good assumption to say any player that you didn’t see take damage is always at max overheal HP and simply run away anyways.
That’s why I think the Amputator is underrated. Healing while running away can be a life saver no matter the skill level and is a lot less situational than that “Soldier at 67 Health who is bombing you but you’re in a situation where 1 swing on him is safer than running away but 2 swings is deadlier than both”
uber tracking is sweaty af
It is, agreed. But there's a reason this guy happens to be the kinda dude that can carry casual matches as medic whereas the rest (myself included) are glorified dispensers.
Medic can be autopiloted very easily, the only skill intensive thing a medic can do is uber tracking.
what i mostly got from this is that medic turns the game into an rts and the solemn vow is info... info always good in rts
I still love the critical fear factor that the Uber saw still gives to enemies attacking you as a Medic. If they choose to attack you but somehow screw up and get hit by the Uber saw, they just made a terrible mistake. As a result, enemies might choose to attack you from afar more where it's way easier to position yourself safely.
But I do agree that the Vow has a much more consistent benefit.
The Ubersaw can never replicate the feeling of approaching a low health power class pretending to be all tough when you know that you'll take them down in one swing.
Biggest downside of the solemn vow is no uberchaining
This was a very nice breakdown on the two options. I'm looking forward to the videos to come about the other melee weapons. Been really enjoying Kritz with Vita saw, because getting that charge back even quicker really does feel like the gambler loadout for medic.
I love your videos, they're so helpful and interesting!
The Kritz Strobing out is kinda funny ngl
You run the ubersaw to farm uber, I run the ubersaw because it has a 101% chance to crit, we are not the same
I’m too cautious with Uber saw so I never fully use it however since the solemn vow is passive it’s perfect for me.
We gonna talk about the absolutely fucking sick play at 28:18? Like you're just gonna casually drop 2v1ing a medic/demo combo as medic without even bringing it up?
Was ringing in an AM scrim. It happens in open divs.
solemn vow for when I equip my 6.5 kills australium blütsauger
Im just here bc i found my sec main. i found it bc no one in my team plays medic and they wont stop screaming MEDIC! once i become one. Now i feel how medic main feels
yo i reckon the solemn vow wins this is an unbiased opinion of course
@@solemnvowenjoyer based
Love your videos you made me main medic and love tf2 thanks :)
boutta crack an ipa and a half for this one
I am an avid Bonesaw user, but the Ubersaw is my second go-to because crits are funny
i like running at the bad guys with the uber saw, i also play a lot of scout
Great video. Can't think of anything that wasn't covered here
1:33 I am pretty sure this is because what the devs did is subtract 25% uber gain from hitting disguised spies, which for the end of the taunt does 75-25=50.
23:06 can we just appreciate how the red soldier couldve killed the medic if only he did rocket jump to prevent fall damage XD
Minor correction.
If two players swing their melee at the same time but one of them has a swing speed penalty, whoever joined the server first hits their swing.
Even if the slower swinging melee had a 900% slower swing speed, it would still register a hit at the same time.
Swing speed affects how long you have to wait between swings without changing when in the swing the hit occurs. Because of that, modifying a melee to have a fast enough swing speed will actually prevent the melee from dealing damage so long as the attack button is being held down.
@@redstonewarrior0152 cool. Didn't know that and didn't think to research melee speed that deeply. Thanks for the information.
Alternativly : Medieval mode :
Not the most popular game mode but if we review all Medic melees ( that have some upsides, unlike organ harvesting ) :
The Solemn Vow is the best melee, seeing enemy health let’s you engage the fight or just pick that low Demoknight with 12 head.
You already have a crossbow to heal so you don’t really loose the amputator and it helps you sniping the final control point or the snipers that are on the roof.
( people are sleeping on this hidden gem, and even if you hit a teammate you are healing them, seeing the enemy health is giving them a neon sign screaming « I’m an easy target » )
Plus it let’s you play more risky, you don’t have any uber to loose so go wild and do some flashy stuff.
The downside doesn’t exist since you better switch your weapons after each attack.
The Ubersaw is the worst, the only upside is the taunt kill so good luck with that.
Stock is stock definitely a valid pick and I would say it’s better than the amputator but it depends if you are on defense or offense plus funny pan or ham are totally medieval weapons :)
The amputator is only viable on defense, on offense the defender won’t let you use the taunt.
okay after using it for a few days fuck I think this is the best melee for medic now
Ubersaw
Also solemn vow is barely worth it if you’re constantly with your team, ubersaw and amputator should be the top 2, the area heal of the amputator is EXTREMELY underrated, like especially on maps like dustbowl or other chokey maps
3:22 how are MORE people using the crusader’ crossbow than the SAPPER
LIKE IT’S THE STOCK SAPPER WITH 1 ALTERNATIVE NOBODY USES, AT LEAST SOME PEOPLE USE THE BLUTSAUGER OR OVERDOSE SOMETIMES BECAUSE OF EITHER BATTLE MEDIC OR NOT HAVING THE CROSSBOW
Cause appsap from portal is a thing so I don't it counts reskins
I use the blutsauger because the game puts me on the team with absolute lobotomites that can’t kill jack even with a medic up their butt for balance reasons
@owenblount7334 for that situation I use quick fix over blut cause it keeps people alive so that they can kill, but its uber isn't that good for offence or defence so best as a party medic instead of a main medic
Amputator video next please 🙏
We shall see....
I love sniping players who don't know, that the CB has inverse damage falloff. My favourite are Demos or Soldiers spamming longrange podshot, thinking they are save. Nailing a low HP Sniper is satisfying, but damn risky.
I always felt "required" to use the ubersaw unless I was playing on Fishstick's rebalance server, even though I preffered the solemn vow. I'm happy I didn't fall into the aggressiveness trap due to my inherent passive playstyle at least and I feel more justified for preffering the solemn vow
16:48 Based FMA quote
I've only ever ran ubersaw on stock and I'm only running quick fix if I'm running the blutsauger due to poor healing otherwise.
Funny editing choice of playing a version of The Imperial March over you discussing the dark side of Ûbersaw.
Well played, in several different senses!
Furthermore, what a beautiful escape from that soldier @ 29:42! Really nice surf onto the small health pack.
I use the ubersaw because im too stupid to effectively use the vow