I Went Down a Joshua Graham/Psalm 137 Rabbit Hole
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- I was making new Fallout New Vegas videos and kinda got sidetracked.
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#Fallout #NewVegas - เกม
The time for talk has passed,
*THE LORD'S WORK MUST BE DONE*
I'm mean you can't expect God to do all the work.
*WE CAN'T EXPECT GOD TO DO ALL THE WORK*
Joshua put a bullet in general gobdelydook here
I would follow him into battle.
Many hands make for short work
And the Lord knows there is much work to be done
Joshua Graham was written by Josh Sawyer, and religion is definitely a topic he knows well.
@Cameron Chris Avellone was responsible for all the DLCs for FONV, except for Honest Hearts. Josh Sawyer was the lead designer for both the DLC and Joshua Graham.
@Cameron One of the reasons why NV is so great in terms of storywriting is that Obsidian consists mostly of former members of Black Isle Studios, the creators of the original two Fallout games. You might not have heart about it, but they had a third installment in mind called 'Van Buren'. You can still find a leaked demo/proof of concept in the depths of the web, in case you are interested and there are plenty of videos about it here on YT.
The thing is, they never had the chance to actually make this game, but a lot of the _stories_ for the main quest and lots of side quests were already written and quite fleshed out. And a huge part of this lore and of those stories later found their way into NV, after years of writing and re-writing. So you have stories from actually creative people who actually understand the Fallout universe and that have been years in the making.
Far from Fallout 4 with its often downright moronic stories and its "Go to B, Kill C while wasting ammo and meds worth 10.000 caps, fetch D, go back to A to collect 200 caps and two stimpacks and get insulted by the questgiver" quests.
Can't stand how everyone literally forgets that the biggest writer on this game is Gonzalez, and he was the big writer for Honest Hearts in particular
Apparently not, joshua doesnt have faith neither he forgave the lives of anyone. Plus when he says theres light in the darkness he is talking about his gun... I trusted in him and joshua broke my hearth
@@Cherub-vl9bc Joshua is a personification of the old testament. If you think that lacks faith then you should look inward
Fun fact: there's a painting depicting Jesus driving put the people from the temple, he's basically flipping tables and chasing them with a whip. A whip he braided by hand himself. This was premeditated because it takes hours to braid leather into a whip.
The dude turned water into wine, fed 5000 hungry people with a couple of fish and loaves of bread, walked on water, cured leprosy, blindness and raised the dead. Jesus wants a whip? He'll *get* a fuckin whip. 😂
@@zer0deaths862 I think you're missing the point. It's not about the whip. It shows us Jesus knew he would need one. It's just an example of his all knowingness.
@@clothar23
“...And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.” - Jesus (Luke 22:36)
He definitely knew that weapons were necessary. Assuming he didn’t harm anybody perhaps it just made sense that in those days you couldn’t just walk around completely unarmed.
@@BottomlessCoffee. I rather think the sword thing was as premeditated as the whip was. Jesus knew there would be those that would bring harm to his disciples and followers.
While he wasn't advocating outright violence he seemed very much in favor of self defense not only of oneself but all they loved. A Christian should be fierce before his enemies and gentle towards those he loves and all that.
David didn't turn the other cheek to Saul when Saul made it clear he wasn't leaving . He picked up the stone and slew the giant with it.
This is what I personally believe Jesus was alluding to with his sword comment.
@@clothar23
I didn’t try to imply that he intended to cause violence. You’d have to excuse my second hand English. I was trying to say what you elaborate it on. It was dangerous times and being that he was Jesus he knew that people would want to cause harm to his followers. If I remember correctly the verse I quoted was before The Last Supper as well so it would make sense that he’d want his disciples to defend themselves.
Joshua Graham is intriguing as a character because he is a holy man, in the original sense of the word. He isn’t some goody twoshoes, he is an upright man, gracious to those deserving, and ruthless to those that would do harm to the defenseless. He has integrated his shadow, as Jung would say.
Though he has committed great sins, he spends his time trying to atone, even though he has been forgiven by God since he has repentance in his heart. He bears the scars and pain of his mistakes not with shame, nor with pride, but as a reminder of what happens when he strays from the righteous path. You could have no better friend, or worst enemy, than Joshua Graham.
Edit: As a Baptist, I don’t agree with Mormon doctrine, but I have never meet one I didn’t like. A very gracious and hospitable people.
Joshua himself said he was baptized twice. Once in Water, once in fire.
He was reborn in the fire, his scars never healing and always hurting.
@Belisarius damn that is bad ass
Joshua Graham is the kind of Christian I wish all Christians would be. Kind and forgiving first, but not afraid to grab a gun and pop a cap in those who do us wrong intentionally.
@@imperialbricks1977 I think Joshua represents the Old testament and Daniel the new. Daniel would rather flee Zion than engage the White Legs. Like Jesus, he turns the other Cheek.
But Joshua chooses wrath. Like God smited upon Babylon, he smites the White Legs to protect the Innocents of Zion. Not for joy, as killing for him is a chore like any other.
@@belisarius6949
When our Lord entered the Temple and saw it polluted by money changers and beasts, did He ask them to leave? Did He cry? No. He drove them out.
Jesus knew when to inflict His wrath just as His Father.
2:45
Joshua Graham is the embodiment of the spirit of the Old Testament; he's full of righteous fury and indignation.
Daniel is the physical embodiment of the New Testament; he emphasizes forgiveness and peace, his quest to leave Zion is essentially "Turn The Other Cheek"
Joshua Graham quotes both Old Testament and New.
Daniel quotes neither.
@Cameron
_"Yes but if you have read the Bible what he said is completely correct. The New Testament is not at all vengeful whereas the first...man it’s a freakin bloodbath lmao"_
Is that so. Let's take a look at Jesus' parable from the *_New Testament_* book of Matthew, Chapter 13, verses 24 through 30:
*"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."*
In this parable, both the wheat and the "tares" (weeds) represent people, and the "barn" is the Kingdom of Heaven. The unrighteous ones burn.
Also, the book of Revelation, which is also in the New Testament:
Revelation, Chapter 21, verse 8: *"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."*
There are many other New Testament verses that express the same fact, that God is forgiving to those who fail in their pursuit of righteousness as a result of mistakes; _not_ to those who are unrepentant. That message is consistent in both Testaments, which are actually one Testament.
As I said, Joshua Graham quotes both Old Testament and New.
Daniel quotes neither.
@Cameron
_"I see where you’re coming from but still stand by what I said. There are rarely, if ever, calls to enact revenge in the New Testament. The overarching message is always that it is god’s job alone to judge sinners in the afterlife. Whereas the Old Testament had both god and the Israelites destroying entire peoples."_
The Book of Acts, Chapter 5, verses 1 through 11:
*"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.*
*And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things."*
You were saying?
Notice that these two didn't die because they held back money; they died because they lied about the amount in order to make themselves seem more charitable. The book of Revelation goes much farther, detailing God's judgement against the _entirety of Humankind,_ and the deaths of massive amounts of people. That this is NOT revenge. The Israelite people's destruction of the original Canaanites wasn't revenge, either: they did so because God ordered them to do so, as soldiers.
Nothing has changed.
@Cameron Christ whipped people in a temple for being merchants, the new testament is a narrative made to describe how live with Christ as an example, that is why he walked the world as a man. Viewing each verse without the overall context of the story mangles the message of the Bible
@@Idazmi7 Incredible levels of cherrypicking to misrepresent Christianity. As if Paul's letter to the Romans was never written. Chapter 12 in particular. Christians are not violent soldiers who go and kill under command of God. Explicitly, unquestionably, do not pass go, do not collect $200. God's wrath will be delivered by God, not Christians.
I wish this DLC was longer. It's probably my favorite next to OWBs.
I think that it perfectly establishes the kind of mood you wanna feel after dead money as well and how torturing but rewarding that dlc was. Honest hearts was sort of the calm before the storm in terms of dlc and was a great one at that.
Joshua Graham and Ulysses will forever be my favorite characters in gaming history. They're more inspirational than any real man on earth.
"WHY ARE THERE PENISES ON YOUR FEET?"
everyone sweats this one but for me it's meh. i could never figure out how to get in good with any of the tribes. the scenery and change of weapons and items was cool tho.
Does anyone else not really rate Old World Blues as a DLC?
Zion is both a place and a state of being. Either path you end up walking in Honest Hearts means Zion is lost. Daniel's path of peace means losing Zion the place. Graham's path of violence means losing Zion as a state of being.
Very good.
Care to elaborate on that 'state of being'?
@@theace8502 I remember reading that in the Latter Day Saints religion (which I believe the New Canaanites were) Zion is a sort of utopian ideal, somewhat communitarian in nature. I believe that it can be argued that Graham's path of violence makes building and maintaining such a state impossible (or at least extremely difficult) as the tribes of Zion end up embracing violence and do get into skirmishing with each other. As such there can be no peaceful coexistence and no unity of those who live in Zion the place.
@@phrophetsamgames Thank you for explaining in such a concise manner. I appreciate it, because I really had no idea what state of being you were talking about. But I do now. Thank you
@@theace8502 no problem
The quote that uses 'rase' is just the British English spelling from the original text. 'Raze' is the American spelling. Lots of places where Americans use 'z' we use 's' like 'apologise' or 'realise'.
I actively use both to irritate those around me.
@@vampyr2936 you telling me that irritated me, that's amazing. Good job.
@@vampyr2936 same I also am fickle with weather I put a u in colour or not. Sometimes in the same paragraph
So both versions are correct but because English is fucking stupid people end up arguing about this and it annoys other for no reason
I just did it cause I thought it was cooooollll
To understand those Psalms, one needs to realize the utter horror and suffering the Israelites suffered at the hands of the Babylonians (also known as the Chaldeans). If you do research on the conquests of the Babylonians and get into the details of what they did to both Israel and the other nations they subjugated, you might understand why they might wish such horrible things on the Babylonians. Essentially, the Psalmist is saying that whoever does those things to the Babylonians is serving justice because those are the things the Babylonians did to them. It was truly a brutal and dark time in human history.
they were one of the first army's in history Israel is doing the exact thing now with thier army's almost a never ending cycle
@Zoomer Waffen then why did David became king, and God put saul in Davids hands to choose what to do? Why make propaganda against your own king. David, having grown took goliaths sword that was made to kill israelites.
Saul killed many people persecuting david, if it was propaganda no one wouldve helped david even unto death
@Zoomer Waffen calm down, do not be afraid, because the Lord is good
@Zoomer Waffen Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Psalm 137 is about Rome. Edom is the Jewish word for Rome, and it mentions daughter of Babylon. Babylon the Great is the Mother of Harlots, and one of her daughters is Rome. It's about the second coming and the destruction.
We can not expect God to do all the work!
Yet even that you breathe is his grace.
funny with your name
I'm very religious and Honest Hearts is one of my favorite DLC's.
Same, honestly, especially for me as someone who is joining the military as combat arms as a devout Christian. It made me really think on what mindset I should have.
I’m very atheist and I still love Honest Hearts.
You know a characters dialogue is well written when no matter the religion of the player, it’s still interesting, inspiring and genuinely amazing
@@drifterax7731 It was ok I felt it needed more but nothing is perfect in the world.
Same
As a Devout Misotheist i found it very hard to hate Joshua Graham
The Old Testament part about “dashing the little ones” was interpreted by the early church (st. John C.) as to kill you’re favorite sin- like to abandoned your most beloved sin- to kill something precious- Like a little one.
Yeah my priest said the same thing.
Regardless of interpretation, the Jews were in mourning for the horrors inflicted upon them, and wrote that passage in vengeful grief. It's about inflicting pain on the ones who hurt them so.
Idazmi7 “seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;” 2Thess 1:6
Idazmi7 *israelites were in mourning* Not just Jews, who are Judites, the chief tribe of Israel.
@@lonewanderer1328
I am aware of the difference between the tribe of Judah and Israel. I was simplifying for conversation's sake, as the term "Jew" is often used to reference all of Israel is a whole today. Thank you for clarifying, though: that information *_is_* important.
This is why i love Fallout New Vegas. The characters are written so well that it makes me go back and play the game just so i can listen to them and understand their views.
New Vegas is so well written it has people pick up a bible to understand its characters better
As someone who grew up Mormon it was really cool to play through Honest Hearts
My favorite dlc, with OWB in a close 2nd.
Growing up in AZ all of fallout NV is so great. They really nailed the feeling of the southwest. Being Mormon as well is just my cherry on top
Its funny im reading the Book of Joshua from the Old Testament to see if the developers took any inspiration or references from the book towards Joshuas character seeing as the entire book is about the conquering of northern and southern Canaan by the Israelities... and alot of it so far is about obeying God's laws that lead to frankly some unspeakable acts in the book so far.
If that's the case than I'm sure they did take some inspiration from it for the character.
War, war never changes
Sergio Ruiz As an lds(mormon) person he is my favorite fictional character as he embodies the disciplined warrior culture inherent in lds concepts of masculinity. That intensity which is the sort of faith i adhere to. In my case it is lds priests apart of operation underground railroad who search and save trafficked children. It began when a top CIA special agent named Tim Ballard prayed in our temple and was told to “find my missing children” and then he left the government with a group of others and went above and beyond to fight and save them. I’m inspired by that same cause and know that evil must be eradicated just as Joshua Graham does.
@@joshuaanonymous868
Is it real tho ?,thr story about special agent
@Matthew Chenault plus arguably the best ending of the dlc is having Graham show mercy to the white leg leader. In doing so teaching the tribes the importance of forgiveness but also the importance of strength
I'm amazed that the fact that this DLC was released 9 years ago, and up until now the choice/approach is still debatable. That's how you make an excellent video game.
There isn’t some dichotomy between the old and New Testament, it’s pretty well harmonized. It’s not that the Old Testament is the “fire and brimstone” one and the New Testament is the “peace and love one.” It’s all about peace, love, judgment, and wrath.
Jesus, in the New Testament, said “Love your neighbor as yourself.” But that’s quoted directly from the Old Testament. God didn’t change. He was full of love and mercy back in the ancient days, he spared the people in Nineveh because they repented at Jonah’s preaching. And he’s also still full of wrath and judgment because one day he will come back to judge the world and cast evil into hell.
@Christian Body Improvement Club
Exactly! Although the Old Testament certainly has more wrath and justice than the New Testament. But that’s not very surprising considering the times it wrote about.
It's a stereotype that misinterprets how Jesus Christ commands us to be at many times radically peaceful against our worldly enemies, and wage war against our own sins and otherworldly enemies.
Doubtful
@@helloman1051 it’s also funny how in all cases, sacrifices wasn’t what caused God to forgive them. It was repentance just as in the New Testament too. He doesn’t say they didn’t sacrifice in the new (as Christ was the sacrifice needed) he says they didn’t repent. In any case I can think of, it’s always a heart issue. David, Nineveh, Hezekiah all had repentance and all spared
Amen. I got goosebumps reading this, since you nailed it on the head. God bless.
Really love it when religious quotes and themes are used in a non- damning sense and to give some good points in life, history, and some such. Honestly, such thematics are rare in fiction, though there are still some gems like Babylon 5 that come around to this well... all while I'm getting a bit tired of negative religious depictions that are a bit all too common nowadays.
They'd be less common if negative religious people were less common in modern America. Evangelical Christianity is a hydra of hate.
2:56 Holy hell, he makes that sound more intimidating than how it sounds. I love it and it gives me chills.
Theology nerd here. His version is a little bit closer to the proper Latin Vulgate. Which makes sense spending time with caesar who's a huge latin freak.
I also want to point out that the temple is not meant as a place of peace and relaxation, the temple is a place of blood sacrifice and atonement. A somber place in which blood is offered for the remission of sin. One of the reasons for instance that there is a supposed disparity between how the Old Testament treats women of ill repute and how Jesus treats the adulterer who was brought to him at the temple. The place in which the Pharisees brought this woman to him was only one wall away from where they were actively slaughtering the animals for the remission of sin. Jesus was angry with the Pharisees bringing a sinful person all the way to the temple with the intention of punishment as opposed to remission. Likewise when Jesus made the corded whip to drive out the money changers it was because the money changers were taking advantage of those who came to the temple for forgiveness of sins and instead were extorted financially for it. Jesus, who is the same God of the old testament, was upset multiple times because man had figured out ways to monetize the mercy that he was trying to extend to mankind. Even in the Old Testament he extends every Mercy that he can at every opportunity that he can as long as the person is devoted to Him. There is no disparity between the two.
This brings us to the very interesting difference between the burned man and Daniel in the valley. From a theological perspective Daniel is weak, he promotes peace to the point that it would harm the innocent needlessly, in violation of scripture which states that those who do not take care of their own families are worse than infidels. The burned man actively tries to reject his violent nature, and pushing the tribes to violence is absolutely not something he takes lightly. Many suppose that he is relapsing into old habits, but I would put forward that it is an absolutely begrudging act, one he hoped prayer and exile would spare him.
so Joshua tried to distance himself from needless violence and bring his own to turn from it, hoping through prayer and action that those around him wouldn't bring violence upon themselves or that his enemies wouldn't do so in the same. yet unlike Daniel, who wished the same and actively tried to make it so, Joshua prepared his own and was already prepared within himself to do what it takes when violence inevitably finds him again, where Daniel flees it and tries to avoid it at all costs even when taking action would aid his own
Well said.
@Kaffir Zulu are you shia or sunni?
@Kaffir Zulu Because he fufilled prophecy in isiah and Genesis, how else could he come from eves womb if he wasn't born a human?
Gen:3 15
"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
Also many time Jesus states he and the father are 1.
John 14:10,John 14:11, John 14:20
John 10:30
"I and the Father are one."
is this muslum?
I'm liking Joshua, Old Testament is so awesome i swear why don't people read the bible more
It's archaic literature, and not for everyone.
@@kylegivens3120 ah.. makes sense
@@kylegivens3120 All sinners should read the bible.
@@chiefmaggot360 Most people don't have a conceptual grasp of sin, or are entirely indifferent of sin. Things today are not like the middle ages.
@@kylegivens3120 most people are slaves to feel good receptors in their brain.
I think my only issue with Honest Hearts is that the Courier cannot be baptized or the option to say that he/she is a believer in Christ. Old World religions, much like their Blues, will not die out just cuz of nuclear anihilation.
They would change, certainly. But if Christ doesn't come back after a nuclear apocalypse - he isn't coming back. That kinda ends Christianity's schtick.
@@romanmanner part of Armageddon is nuclear apocalypse
@@nichy7734 One can only hope ;)
@@romanmanner He might have not came back yet in the Fallout universe. Perhaps God's judgement was symbolized by nuclear fire and cleansing. It does leave a very bleak and grim situation for humanity, but let's not kid ourselves that the universe was rapidly going down the shitter even before the bombs dropped. I'd like to see a future fallout game where Jesus did return to see the world ruined and still manages to lead humanity into an era of peace and restoration for 1000 years.
@@Arnuld15Governator that woudlnt even be a fallout game cuz it would be unrecognizable as the wasteland we know it. Assuming Christ came back, raiders would be gone the radiation would be healed. It would just be a normal world
Psalms 144-1 “Blessed be the Lord, my rock, for he trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle.” My favorite while serving in the Marines.
You fighting in Ukraine now? Or how about Israel?
YES SOMEONE ELSE HAS BEEN CRAZY ABOUT THIS LATELY TOO
I'm grateful that the most prolific DLC in the Fallout games was of my people, the Latter-Day Saints.
Really digging the Assassins Creed II music.
I was hoping somebody else knew the music lol
Dude I was sitting there wondering where I knew it from and then I realised "Holy shit, that's AC2!".
Josh needs a stand alone game. Itd be so great. It could start crawling out of the grand canyon after being burned and thrown into the canyon
I know it will never happen (unless someone makes a mod?) but imagine fighting at the first battle of hover dam. only to lose and cut to a far cry style cutscene where you're judged by caesar only to be burned alive and kicked into the canyon.
It'd be awesome, but it couldn't be a fallout style game with freedom of choice, because his story is already written and his choices are pretty clearly guided by his faith at that point (unless the game allowed you to change lore and history, which would be fine I guess)
he also may be missing pages from the bible since many books are damaged and unreadable
It's not a typo. "Raze" and "raise" are two completely different words. "Raze" means to burn down or destroy with fire, while "raise" means to lift up. To raze something to its foundations means to completely burn down and destroy something to its root. That is what the line in Psalm 137:7 meant. The psalm is a prophecy of God's judgement and retribution against Babylon, for they conquered Israel and led the Israelites people off into captivity. It's a prophecy of coming judgment against Babylon for their crimes against God's people and foretold their great city would be utterly destroyed. And that prophecy was fulfilled in 689 B.C. when Babylon was destroyed by the Assyrians, returning upon them what the Babylonians brought upon Israel. Very fitting for Joshua Graham's character and motivation.
Joshua Graham and The Survivalist were the best characters.
It's funny though how they start out the same. Vengeful men driven to correct injustice the only way they know how. At the end of a gun.
But the Survivalist's logs show him mellowing out. And eventually he basically founds the Sorrows Tribe. A tribe of pacifists who nonetheless will fight when push comes to shove.
I like to think the Survivalist is what Joshua might become one day if the Courier influences him in the right directions.
The psalm of Lydia is likely a reference to Poe's poem "The Conqueror Worm," which appears in one of his short stories called "Ligeia."
Thank you for the input. I'll keep that in mind.
I like how you put Assassin's Creed music in a Fallout video lol it actually fit in quite well here.
I like how I did that too. Considering the subject matter I thought it fit nicely.
@@PapitoQinn it does fit nicely
@@the_biggest_chungus7508 Thanks
Graham actually makes Mormonism tempting to convert to. Either way, I want an audiobook of the bible read by Graham's voice actor
Then you read it and go “wtf... Why are there golden tablets in some dude’s attic? Why was he hiding them?”
@@saintpoli6800 why is he able to translate them with some rocks? Why are these pages from the book of the dead and not what he said?
@@angellara7040 And yet, Mormons seem to be really honest and chill People. Its so weird.
Why was he able to write a massive, extremely lore deep book with insanely deep meanings as a 14 year old with an elementary education that manages to convince millions?
@@chestdayalltheway2897 There’s zero evidence Joseph Smith translated when he was 14. In fact, he didn’t even begin translation of the gold plates until his adult years according to Mormon history. With that being said, it’s highly likely Joseph Smith had assistance from the likes of Oliver Cowdery when making up the Book of Mormon, this is highly theorized of being the case as he was more educated than Joseph Smith. He was excommunicated from the Mormon church criticizing Joseph Smith, especially polygamy during Jospeh’s rise to power.
Joshua Graham is a post apocalyptic paladin
@2:55 Jesus was not a pacifist, this is a common misconception. Jesus taught that violence was never the answer, the only exception being defending yourself from physical attack. In Luke 22:36, Jesus said:
• In the English Standard Version, it says "He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."
•In the New King James Version: "Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.
•In the King James Bible: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
•In the Contemporary English Version: "Jesus told them, "But now, if you have a moneybag, take it with you. Also take a traveling bag, and if you don't have a sword, sell some of your clothes and buy one."
The different versions vary on the exact wordage, but the meaning is clear: Jesus told His Disciples at the Last Supper to buy swords. There would be those who opposed them.
Luke 22:37-38 says: "It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied."
Luke 22:36 in context is about the use of swords to resist those who assail the Disciples in their mission to keep the faith and spread the word of God.
In the Book of Luke, Jesus's arrest by the authorities is chronicled. In Luke 22:49-51: "When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?” And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and healed him."
The one who struck the servant was Peter. Jesus objected to this because He understood it was His time, not Peter's.
You can read the verses about "turn the other cheek" and "resist no evil," but it's clear that even Jesus had exceptions to those rules.
Yeah that's kinda the point I was trying to make. He was reasonable enough to not be a absolutist.
My friend you surely realize that Jesus told his disciples to get weapons to fulfill the scriptures you quoted the verses yourself. In the garden of Gethsemane when Peter smote the soldier Jesus rebuked him. If there was ever a time to fight that was it and Jesus didn’t. He that lives by the sword shall perish by the sword. Two swords are not enough to fight for 12 men. Also Jesus said that if someone smites you on the cheek give him the other also no exceptions it’s plain and simple. Jesus never defended himself he went with them as a sheep to the slaughter.
@@silentdave6554 he only did that because he knew that fighting there would do nothing since he already knows the future. He knows he will die and accepts It even If at first he was scared he stopped his disciples so that they do not die a vain death and instead have a death preaching the word of the savior instead of dying with him
@@silentdave6554 live by the sword meaning thats your first choice not that you use a sword as a last resort. And he wasn't saying be lambs to the slaughter, Jesus' whole point of being there was to die so he could die for our sins, he was sacrificing himself, not setting an example of how to act
@@IsaiahINRI Jesus never said to use a sword ever even as a last resort in fact he said “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”
Matthew 5:38-44. Very clearly this means that we should not fight back and it’s not loving your neighbor if they attack us and we fight back in fact it says here do not resist evil meaning if evil befalls us we don’t resist and let it happen.
And he was setting an example and John knew this which is why he wrote “He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”
1 John 2:6
If someone claims to be a Christian that means they claim to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and therefore they strive to act as he did because he is the master. And since he was a sheep led to the slaughter so we should act. Paul also had this revelation. “As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
Romans 8:36 KJV
The Musical scores have all been lost, but Davids Psalms are indeed actually hymns of a sort. They composed to be sang, accompanied by Musicians. They are sung prayers. We merely recite them, but they are meant to be sung.
Smallest detail; I love that you used Kreias "Apathy" as your censor noise hahaha
John Dies at the End....spoiler for the riddle..."It wasn't the axe that killed you, *I* *killed* *you* ." Just so you never give up your ultimate power of decision against an unknown entity in your own travels my doodz.🤠 peace
The assassin's creed 2 veince music takes me back
The "all seeing worm" is probably the Oroborus
“All seeing worm” could be a Dune reference combined with a blasphemy against God as many music artists tend to do. The sand worms in Dune are called “Makers”. So the artist could be saying that the all seeing maker is a worm because they are mad at Him.
Excellent research Brother! I am protestant but i grew up with many Mormons.
Wasn't prepared for the Kreia apathy clip, great use, subscribed.
Thanks, homie! We're gonna have a lot of fun together.
"Jesus Christ was basically a pacifist" big disagree
He may have been, at that time the word had a very different meaning.
Found the edgy atheist.
He was proactive, but peaceful. Pacifist not meaning lazy or uninvolved
And yeah that one time he raged at the temple and flipped tables haha
He definitely was passionate
I second that, and that's coming from a catholic, Jesus was peaceful and didn't advocate for violence, but he did have his limites and did recognize the legitimacy of self-defense
WE CAN'T EXPECT GOD TO DO ALL THE WORK
"The All Seeing Worm" appears to be a reference to the Edgar Allan Poe poem "The Conqueror Worm" which also depicts the tragedy of man. Hope that helps.
Thanks for the input.
*Casually plays Assassin's Creed 2 Theme in background, forgetting the Book of Mormon, and playing Fallout New Vegas*
I love how your video had assassin creed OST in the background. I loved it.
Thanks, man. I thought it fit given the topic.
@@PapitoQinn That gives me an idea, read my bible with Ac ost.
You voice is awesome friend. Keep it up. As someone who ACTUALLY has an annoying voice, yours so very soothing and respectable. Also what is your favourite book? Some book ideas would be very welcome, I've been looking at diversifying my material.
Thank you for the kind words. The grass is always greener. My favorite book is called "John Dies at the End". It's a horror comedy. You laugh when you're reading it. But it's later on, especially when your trying to sleep in a dark room that you get to thinking...
I’m a born and raised member of the Church of Latter Day Saints, and I can tell you while a lot of our teachings, proverbs, and history are peaceful, they can all be shockingly violent.
God I love this game and Joshua
I'm not religious and i love this DLC such a great arc for Joshua from a Man obtainment to a tyrant to a man seek redemption
I’m Mormon and for some reason I have a strange fascination with Joshua, but he thing is I’m not a religious person. This makes me want to go back to church and get in tune with my spirituality
Same my brother
Im also a member but just the idea of a mormon going through this character change is insane but cool in an odd way
I'm not religious and same here
How can you be a mormon and not believe in Jesus? How can i be a christian and not believe in Jesus?
@@Cherub-vl9bc
Humans are capable of believing in many things, just look at scientology
@@saintpoli6800 ive been everywhere dude i might as well have a phd on this topics. And i mean. Ive seen ALL, from atheism to satan to being saved by God to know secret bible messages
Holy crap, I thought of a possible tie in to the relation to Graham's faith in the game. This could have already been said but I don't know so here goes. Y'know how games take inspiration from many cultures and languages right? The name Joshua sounds very close to a Hebrew word I know. This word is יֵשׁוּעַ (Yeshua). The very rough translation for this word is Lord OR JESUS! Also, another thing is (and this probably known to all of you) that Salt Lake City is the home of the Church of Latter-Day Saints or the Church of the Mormon branch of Christianity!
I think the worm analogy was meaning that man's (underlying) ultimate goal is to create an all seeing entity that could give them complete control of the world (or how it thinks of him), a sort of symbolism that man's folley will only disappear if man itself destroys the world for his own gain.
I too have a frankenstein machine from the mid 2000s, lol. It's actually impressive how computer parts can last. I had already decided to build a pc this year before losing my job, but oh well. I feel that way every year, and every year it seems like a good year to wait another year for new things to come out.
Jesus was far from a pacifist. He tells his followers to arm themselves with swords, even if it means selling their cloaks to afford one. In Revelation, he appears as a holy warrior leading armies with a sword coming out of his mouth.
Yeah but isn't he fighting the devil in revelations
@@cats3822 You don't think there are humans in the devil's army?
Which was written by a mad man and almost rejected by the Council of Nicaea. My God, you all would do better to just sign up with ISIS.
@@romanmanner Revelations is full of political and religious symbolism put there in large part to get past the Roman censors, I doubt a madman would be lucid enough to pull that feat off.
4:50 Pretty sure that's a story with meaning similar to “Don't try to be a hero” or “ Don't try to approach a non-existent 100% good behavior”
The people who used to write mythos and stories like this lived in really brutal times before modern society had been built.
I hope I can keep my rig going for a long time. something special about saying you've been using the same PC for an extended period of time even if some/most of the parts have changed. Like a pair of shoes you've had so many memories in that losing it would be like losing a part of yourself
4:45
I dunno if someone already mentioned it but I'm pretty sure Nevermore is pulling at least those last two lines from the end of the poem "The Conqueror Worm" by Edgar Allan Poe:
_"While the angels, all pallid and wan,_
_Uprising, unveiling, affirm_
_That the play is the tragedy, 'Man,'_
_And its hero, the Conqueror Worm."_
In the poem, the Conqueror Worm is arguably a metaphor for death and man's impending mortality.
2:53
Jesus was not a pacifist, cut that crap.
He was totally a pacifist.
I mean no offense but how was he not far as I know Jesus never hurt anyone
Boy the whole thing with a computer being a Frankenstein of new and old parts that sounds way too familia.
I think that it is the 21st Century King James Version that was used for Graham's line, this quote from Pslam 137, “Raze it, raze it, even to the foundation thereof!” matches almost perfectly with Graham's part of that line
I read the title as "I went down on Joshua Graham's rabbithole" lmao
Goddamn, Obsidian's writing is so much better than Bethesda's.
What you said about hating your voice and trying to get more comfortable, I really felt that
my favorite prank call is with Joshua calling a church
I still don't get how Joshua Graham and Nevermore have anything in common. He quotes Psalms, they used the word Psalms in a song title and you go full conspiracy theorists with their lyrics and ask "Who is the all seeing worm? it's worth looking into."
I don't think he was connecting them anymore than that, but it did seem so. I think he was just rambling.
I believe both the tastements are useful in their own ways, yes turn the other cheek but there should be a line too.
I’ve always thought that Joshua using a slightly modified version of the verses could be explained by maybe his religion becoming more direct and violent in the post Great War timeline and he does say that Zion has been lost to his people several times before so they probably became more pissed as time went on but that’s just a guess.
The only real ..mistake here is people thinking an American company would use the British spelling of raze. Rase means to destroy exactly the same way Raze does.
Other than that Joshua is directly quoting the King James word for word.
People really need to unlearn this misunderstanding that the Judeo-christian faiths are peaceful ones.
God does not command mindless violence it is true. But neither does he command cowardice. The greatest biblical figures have always been warriors who defended all they held precious with their very lives if needed.
Even the epitome of God's forgiveness Jesus Christ himself ordered his disciples to buy swords. And to sell their belongings if they needed the money to do so.
@@clothar23 I mean I don’t really think that anyone who even has a baseline knowledge of history considers any of those religions to be completely peaceful and pacifist. Crusades, the often times violent conversion of rival cultures, church condoned slavery and the treatment of women in history are all pretty solid examples
@@Demos_Jeff Now you're equating Man's flaws with basic Doctrine. Simply because such things are justified using a Deity's name does not mean said Diety actually has anything to do with it or even approves.
The lack of an action on God's part does not equate approval. Why should he intervene in every little thing ? Especially when he's already given us the tools to stop such wickedness.
You have a spine use it , end oppression with you own two hands is what He more or less said.
And plenty of people have done that. Corruption in the Church , sanctioned slavery , abuse to women , and the rights and freedoms that have been earned in blood.
The Bible does not promise an end to all suffering. Only a path to redemption for those willing to walk it. ..And a reckoning to come.
Everything else from the most mundane to the vilest evil is on us to fix.
So with that in mind why act like He's to blame for anyone's mistakes or the evil present in our world ? Simply because a man made institution fucked up their understanding of the laws.
Man has been doing that long before Jesus Christ and thus Christianity showed up.
Man isn't some car you can fix up. We will always be flawed and ultimately unworthy creatures.
Some us just go out of our way to earn sin's wages. And to commit evil upon our fellow man.
But it doesn't mean God tacitly endorses their actions. But having already promised to longer bring water , or fire , or ruin down upon us He can only trust that we will eventually see the light.
If not..well there is that promised reckoning for us who truly fall short of His grace.
@@clothar23 if I’m to be entirely honest with you I believe that if god is a infinite and powerful as we are led to believe then how could a mortal being ever even begin to understand its reasons for things. How could we apply our ideas of good and evil to it? You can’t. However what I can do is look at history and all the horrible things we do to eachother over religion. If a being crafted us in their image then what does it say about that being when we are the worst to each other and our own planet?
Great video! Keep this stuff up!
Thanks, man. I try to do my best. I've been thinking about revisiting this one. I want to do a proper analyses of this.
@@PapitoQinn to be honest, when I first played the games I wasn't actually a Christian so a lot of these references went over my head but it's really inspiring to me to see just how much fallout really does pull from contemporary cultures and including the religious values of the time while still applying a relatively realistic depiction of a society that's given itself unto scientific futurism so much so that it destroyed itself
So someone like Joshua Graham having inconsistencies at such a odd contrast what we see with Caesar in terms of drawing from old faiths, technically contemporary faiths? I'm giving Hebrews were technically the opposite of the Greeks so one can see that what exists in Zion drawing from Hebrew literature could be a nice contrast to what is seen as the greater conflict of the Mojave and it almost neobiblical fashion
And I got all this just from watching your 4 minutes, so I definitely think there's a lot to go into! And trust me man, it's hard making videos but I guarantee your videos are fine, I often feel uncomfortable when I speak as well but I've learned that the more I understand that I'm just talking to those whom I care about the easier it's been getting
It does seem like you genuinely give a damn about your viewers, which is refreshing!
Alright I have to go play Assassin’s creed II now thanks a lot
As a catholic, this character is badass. Makes me want to truly believe in my faith again
By the Rivers of Bablyon (super flumina babylonis) is one of my favorite psalms of all time. It so perfectly encapsulatesthe sorrow and unquenchable rage of the Babylonian exile. No wonder Graham, a man coming to the promise land with a burning desire for revenge, loves it so much.
The thumbnail with 2 of my favorite things, Fallout NV and Nevermore caught my eye
Nevermore's this godless endeavor album is my favorite album of all time. I highly recommend it to anyone who likes metal.
I have no idea what you are on about but somehow I kept on watching lol
Hey, I'll take it.
I didn't understand the point either.
i knew battletech was coming the moment i hear that background music.
Love how you have assassin creed 2 music love it
The all seeing worm = the all seeing eye /
I think its the devil
Perhaps.
Jesus bless you
Thanks for the content
You're very welcome. Thanks for watching.
I used to listen to “Psalm of Lydia” all the time and I couldn’t remember the band or the actual name of the song, but for years I would kind of half-remember the song whenever reading about the history of Lydia
The way I see it is this, Zion is sort of the treated by the Dead Horse's and the sorrow's the same way the Jews of the old testament treated their Zion (their Zion being Jerusalem) I know Zion in most Christian religions has a different meaning to what it means in the latter day Saints religion but my point is that if the Horse's and the Sorrow's were exiled from Zion they would feel the same yearning in their heart's as the Jews did in Psalm 137 (where they were exiled from Jerusalem and taken as captives to Babylon by the Babylonian empire) so Joshua uses the violent imagery in the final verse of Psalm 137 to justify him waging war against the white legs. The peaceful state of being one achieves in Zion was broken when the white legs came and disrespected and disregarded that spirituality and peacefulness by acting violently. So indeed I believe he is restoring Zion's state of being to it's inhabitants by Eradicating the white legs because the white legs left them no choice. The white legs crossed "the line." And where not showing any signs of redeeming themselves. The Horse's and Sorrow's couldn't simply hope and pray for peace because it wasn't up to God it was up to the white legs (which is exactly what I think Joshua is talking about when he says "we can't expect God to do all the work.") but all the white legs wanted was to kill off the other tribes. So Joshua was righteously defending his Zion to maintain it's state of being. That's how I see it.
Thank you. Something of this hadn't occurred to me.
*W E C A N T E X P E C T G O D T O D O A L L T H E W O R K*
Or maybe even any of it.
when they remaster new vegas they should add things to this dlc, it was one of the more immersive additions
Couldn't even focus on the video because Dreams of Venice was playing in the background.
Was this related to my comment on the other video about Canaanite religion perhaps? lol
I replied to you. TH-cam's notification system's been on the fritz lately. But yeah, it was a happy little coincidence. I was already working the video.
Me being Mormon, I fucking love this DLC.
im pretty sure the all seeing worm is a reference to the conqueror worm,a poem from edgar allan poe,it is a metaphor for death
Perhaps. Thanks for the input.
The Psalm of Lydia reminds me of the poem by Edgar Allan Poe: "The Conqueror Worm" where at the end of it, it describes "That the play is the tragedy, "Man, and The hero the conqueror worm""
Thanks for the input.
Hey man! You're one of the few people I follow on youtube that I consider donating. I would, if I wasn't making bellow minimal wage here. Perhaps things can change this year.
I laughed at the censoring of get the f- APATHY. So Graham is just using Bible quotes to justify his violence (People have been doing this since the Crusades). I'm not saying it's unjustifiable in this case (like Mandalorian Wars), but violence is still violence, killing is still killing, no matter how many pompous words you put on it, even if it's to prevent a "greater evil".
About your PC, have you heard about The Ship of Theseus? It's a story about a ship, that each ship part was being gradually replaced over time. After a century, every part was replaced, so was it the same ship? You could say something similar about our body cells, every 10 years, all of your cells have been replaced to new ones. Are you the same person?
By the way, I can't wait to come to Lonesome Road DLC. That was my favorite one and I could hear Ulysses talk for hours. Plus, he has some unique dialogue if you are legion, NCR, neutral or house. It'd be some tough videos, because most of his dialogue is dependent on the Courier's answer.
Thanks man. Don't worry about it. I've been working on a solution to my financial situation. We aren't ready to announce it yet though. Doesn't really have anything to do with the channel either. It's more a means to an end. But it' still about something I enjoy.
Another commenter, Alec Rozsa, pointed it out too. He's right. Both Joshua and Daniel have an opinion, and both cherry pick Bible verses to justify their stances. Violence is violence. There are situations where it's unavoidable. But it's wrong to run away from the fact of what you've done. People often dehumanize them in an effort to disconnect and feel comfort. They call them dogs, rats, mad men, monsters, etc. Some people do it because of bigotry, others do it because it must be very difficult to admit what you've done. Either way, you have to own up to what you did. I've actually been thinking about this recently. People say the Nazies were monsters, because it's true that they did monstrous things. But we also have to face the facts that they were not monsters, they were people and they are example of the unfathomable cruelty that human beings are capable of. We are capable of such horrors.
I haven't heard of the Ship of Theseus. But now that you mention it, it is a topic that comes up quite often. Ghost in the shell tackled it too. Your entire body has been replaced, who are you? Apparently your consciousness has been transferred, but what is consciousness? Is it anything more than a series of chemical reactions in your brain? Because if it isn't, then you died that day they replaced your body.
Both Ulysses and Joshua's voices are mesmerizing. But yeah, Lonesome Road might be tough. I ran through it a little while back to get footage for another video and he has a lot to say. But i think I console command my way into getting all the dialogue.
Ok, this difference intrigued me, so I did a bit of searching. Being a mormon since birth, this difference reminded me that Joseph Smith made a few small tweaks to the bible, correcting some mistranslations that may have occurred. I figured this might be the case, so I had to check it out. Both my digital and physical copies agree that it is "rase it even to the foundation thereof." So it seems to definitely be because of the subtitles that this spelling difference occurs.
But thank you for bringing this tidbit to my attention, its always fun/interesting to see these sort of things occur. And next I play I'm definitely going to keep an eye on what verses he quotes.
Joseph Smith didn't make a few tweaks...he used the bible as justification in order to usurp power from others and slaughter innocent people who were not white.
It's no lie that when you look back on history,your prophet was just a sad white supremacist who used religion to further his power.Mormons waged their own mini holy war on America and almost every state fought them out,they were literally called a "plague" by other whites at the time,and that already says alot.
Grandfather's axe paradox.
It's what you describe at the end.
Great content!!
people: getting greedy in a temple
Jesus: its time to get funky (DooM music intensifies)
Honestly one of my favorite Fallout DLC. TOP 3: The Pitt, Honest Hearts, Broken Steel
Joshua Graham is such a badass, and a good Christian. I’m also religious, it’s nice to see video games do this type of research for a character such as him.
The assassins creed music in the background is oddly satisfying.
And fitting for any religious talk.
Nice "John dies at the end" reference