It’s really important to realize that English is not Ulysses’ first language. He pauses and chooses his words very carefully when he talks, enunciates certain words with more feeling, because he’s translating the closest interpretations of a probably very different tribal dead language.
Yes,I had this point of view when debating on it with my older brother, Ulysses holds English as a 2nd language at least maybe even 3rd considering his position as a frumentarii,he's had to learn and experience other cultures well enough to infiltrate in a relatively short time in his life that it's easy to understand why he'd have that pause,I myself have at at times,I speak Spanish, Portuguese and English, I've had moments when I slip up and answer at times in a different tongue because I find myself speaking those languages constantly,so to imagine in a post war scene with a new assortment of dialects, Ulysses would feel a Similar tug,to time himself as he speaks to fit his own ,like as he speaks he'd probably be translating his thoughts in his tribal tongue to English in a exact form,lacking the flow and more nuance in English as historically some language types lacked these,so to us it feels odd.
Imagine a priest offers their holy book and the local tribes twists and defiles the meanings of the myths and stories of said book. The stories, myths and overall meaning of the holy book would relate to Ulysses' knots having meaning in their twists and turns. The level of disgust they feel. Not the best analogy, though.
That holotape, about Ulysses and the White Legs, always evoked a strong emotional response within me. The amount of hurt that can be produced by a well meant but ultimately ignorant gesture can be much worse than ill intent just on it's own.
dude sounded like he was a sjw triggered over culture appreciation. He can be upset about it, but it's up to him for himself to feel however he wants. What they did was sincere and that makes all the difference.
Makes playing Lonesome Road last even better knowing that even if this is the first time we actually speak and meet Ulysses he still had his marks in all the others and even the main game.
I suddenly realized that English isn't Ulysses' first language. Linguistically, some languages are more indirect, layered, even enigmatic. His original tongue could've been just like that, full of unique expressions and thought patterns hence the cryptic speech pattern that comes off as him speaking in riddles. When you hear him pausing or breaking up his sentences, it's because he's sorting through his thoughts, trying to translate them from a tribal language that doesn't even exist anymore thanks to Caesar which tbh makes it sadder.
To be honest the divide is one of the best DLC in a meta context (i prefer old world blues overal because its zany as fuck) because in the end ulysses is dissing the 2 factions by their obvious flaws wile the way to disuade him from his plan is actualy by aserting the courrier agency ober the sitation.
Thank you for this, as a child I played the entirety of fallout new Vegas. As an adult I always though back the New Vegas and its exceptional story writing and though that I missed alot of the meaning in the story due to my adolescence. The lonesome road is the culmination of all that. I just wish i has the intellect to understand this when i was rushing though the game guns blazing all those years ago
Same here. I had a ton of fun playing through all of FNV content, but never really understood the more nuanced aspects. Especially Ulysses, because his holotapes were so hard for me to understand when I was younger, because his grammar was strange to me. The tapes were very piece-meal, because they're kind of like short bullet notes. It took this vid for me to better understand what the heck he was doing, and what he stood for
@@geraldchurchill5576 I was 11. I got all the way to the like finalization screen where it displays all the stats but I couldn’t find out the fuckin right d pad let you actually play.
The implacations of Ullyses speech about history are bone chilling. His mind is shattered by the thought of a Courier who could destroy history and he understand the power of change can come from even the most lowly servants in society. Is actually genius and maddening to understand that. Everyone have the capabilities of change, everyone can destroy or create. Is bone chilling.
It's internalizing, so that people don't need to, say hurt each other much anymore, kill each other online, I say, live in relative peace otherwise, I sure love a good brawl every now and again, though you shouldn't forget yourselves.
I said something similar when i was little in school and the teachers were shocked "Could you win a fight with me?" Some one asked "Anyone can hurt anyone" i replied I continued saying "any one can hold a knife anyone can pull a trigger anyone can throw a punch"
It's too idealistic, however. Ulysses wants a wasteland with no rulers. That's simply not achievable. Even if the Courier were to wipe out every big name and faction out there (which, first of all, would be nothing short of mass genocide), new rulers would simply spring up after the Courier left or died. Like it or not, humanity can't survive without rulers. Someone has to be in charge. If there isn't, someone will rise to the task. You can understand exactly where Ulyses comes from, and empathize with him deeply, but at the end of the day, a Mojave with no gods or kings is a doomed Mojave. It's simply resetting the board - but the same game will just play out again.
@@bugjams I agree with your take on how human beings as a species will tend to organize themselves when starting from a blank slate without leaders. I'm not an evolutionary biologist or an anthropologist, so this isn't coming from a place of expertise, but we know what the turning point in the history of Homo sapiens was, that took us from existing like any other species in that genus and delivered us into our pre-history of modern humanity as we understand it. What it was, was specializing, allowing different people to dedicate their time to things _other than_ hunting or gathering all day. So with that in mind, doesn't it make perfect sense why we'd naturally want to organize into groups with leaders ensuring that all of our survival tasks are being completed, allowing others to comfortably spend time passing on their knowledge (teaching), inventing, building settlements, being creative, etc.? And just speaking from personal experience, I don't want to lead anything. Nothing within the fiber of my being wants to worry about what other people are doing. I will always want someone else to do the task delegating in a group, and that feels DEEPLY instinctual to me, like it's a sense that was being passed down long before I inherited it. About Ulysses, I don't know that he wants no gods or kings perpetually though. In my interpretation of his actions, especially when he's being grilled in conversation with the Courier, he wants more than anarchy, he wants a new society, which includes new leaders, and he's gotten this idea into his head that none of the symbols of active societies (that he knows about) will end up passing his vibe check (not Caesar, not the Brotherhood of Steel, not the New California Republic, not Vegas) at any point, but that SOMEHOW, if he resets it all back to a clean slate (which can never be clean if any humans survive, and they will, because even mass genocide with nukes leaves survivors, but I digress lol), whatever shows up AFTER he topples NCR with nukes, and then Caesar after that (if necessary), will be a symbol worth rallying behind, worth calling *home.* But we can convince Ulysses that it's psychotic to think that whatever comes after his intentional deadly intervention will inherently be better than anything that came before it. We can convince him of the virtue of allowing the conflict of ideas to play out on its own, to allow "failed" symbols to prove their failures on their own without a single individual deciding that they're wrong and have failed. And he gets it, allowing us to talk him down.
Ulysses seems like the perfect Anti-thesis to Courier Six, atleast from my choices. Ulysses joined the Legion and learned of their lack of vision from the inside eventually looking to parties outside of NCR-Legion for hope for the future. Six joins the NCR, learns of its lack of a future and turns elsewhere to pursue a better future for the Mojave. Ulysses would want an independent ending if you could talk and work together.
@@seemeno1 Even then, House is like Caesar. He's just using an army of metal instead of meat. He, much like caesar, brought the other "tribes" to heel and amalgamated them into a singular unit. He, like Caesar, wishes to rule over the Mojave and if he dies, his legacy disintegrates. If you ask me, Ulysses would want the truly independent ending with Yes Man.
@@SSD_Penumbra Mr House could live centuries, and his ideas won’t fizzle out with his death, neither would Caesars. With Mr House that’s especially true as entire generations will have lived and died under his libertarian ideology. And Mr House also has incredibly different and smarter ruling tactics than Caesar. He obliterates tribal identities for the better, instead of turning them into slave soldiers, he turns them into customers and service providers.
@@seemeno1 Except the Brotherhood, who he destroys because, as he put it, "can't be reasoned with". He also doesn't care about The Boomers, saying you can "do what you want with them". Wouldn't it make more sense to keep them on your good side, seeing as how a heavily armed population who is your ally tends to be a good thing. The Brotherhood value tech, and most of it is useless pre-war stuff, so why wipe them out? They don't want Vegas. He's a Libertarian in name only. He still would rather be on the NCR's good side and if that means turning a blind eye to their settlers taking over in the sake of profit, so be it.
I always wished there was a Follower of the Apocalypse ending. I suppose going wildcard kinda supports it, but in my opinion the Followers were always the best choice for New Vegas.
When Ulysses said: “War, war never changes, men do. Through the roads they walk and this road has reached its end.” In the epilogue I knew Fallout was done as a series. Ulysses brought the lore full circle and set the Courier up to change the face of the planet forevermore
@@omarma7815 You seem to understand very little of what the game is presenting. Cesar founded a Roman empire out of the ruins of the American Midwest. Ulyssesus wants the world to move on WITHOUT that, to truly start a new. It's exactly what would change the world.
What Ulysses sought was to apply the tribal dynamic to a nation-state. The reason this doesn't work is because a tribe is, as Joshua Graham put it, a "linked family of families." The trouble with applying this to a nation-state is that there's a limited number of people that humans can care about enough to act in the way that Ulysses idealizes (Dunbar's number). Even Joshua Graham himself concluded that tribal life was superior to modern life. Within the tribe, people can be loving and selfless toward one another because they genuinely care for one another. Unfortunately, everyone outside of the tribe are the "other." The Divide could have been such a society in the beginning, but ultimately a nation-state needs laws and incentives other than selflessness to succeed, otherwise it simply gets devoured by a larger, more predatory society as wasteland tribes are repeatedly shown to be by both the Legion and the NCR.
Wether that is really true doesn't change the conclusion. In fact it would bolster his original conclusion of destruction. If war doesn't change man must. Without the spirit of cooperation man is doomed the fate of explotation and destruction.
i really liked this video, but i have to comment about the ending: a big part of Ulysses's philosophy is the rejection of corrupt simbols, and that is a big part of nihilist anarchism, such as Stirner's egoism. just as in normal nihilism, you must reject everything, including nihilsm itself, in order to truly see what is important. Ulysses rejected the facism of the bull and the greedyness of the bear, he embraced the power of the individual that forges its own future. Ulysses is BASED.
I don't think politics matter to him anymore, he's a desperate, broken man trying to figure out a reason for everything he experienced other than "shit happens" and trying to justify it to himself so he doesn't crack completely
I think politics is just a part of the Big Picture to Ulysses. He seems to care about humanity’s future, but it’s been corrupted by war. He thinks that instead of trying to help communities, societies, civilizations grow, they must be “tested” in the most extreme manners, or they are not worthy, like he and The Courier, to live and go on in this world.
@@BLK_MN Every monologue Ulysses makes screams of him saying it more to himself than the courier, to convince himself that there was a deeper meaning to everything that happened to him and those around him. With him trying to cling to something, anything that can soothe his trauma and justify what he is trying to do.
@@adamm2091 Yes. Politics is a fact of life where everything can be related back to it. The computer you type on is built with the resources stolen from other countries. The shows you watch are geared precisely to cause enough outrage for views but not enough to provoke genuine discussion of deeper topics. The food you eat is completely based on what is perceived as rich, poor, white, mexican, american, canadian, etc. Even the air you breath is polluted by centuries of industry. People, though, only take issue with "politics" when it involves them not being catered to by new media.
This was a genuinely interesting video. While being a die-hard fan of New Vegas, I'd never considered the idea that Ulysses supported the Divide based on a socialist/communist political viewpoint. I'd always assumed that he supported The Divide based on its position as a neutral civilisation between both Legion and NCR that was also geographically primed to utilise both sides' needs for trade and resources, similar to how Egypt became powerful based on controlling The Nile. I still wish we'd gotten an answer about what to do when Tunnelers start popping up all over the Mojave, though.
Considering the fuckers get scared by a simple flare gun, they'd at most would become a problem in dark caves, or during dark nights. Probably not as catastrophic unless a certain, completely unhinged, scientific genius of a Fascist Elder would get his way, which would cover the mojave in a fog so thick they wouldnt have any problems hunting at daylight
House was barely able to safe Vegas, so while yes he chose to focus on saving Vegas, I think damning him for not saving the rest of the world is a bit harsh when he knew it was never possible for him to have done.
The point is, House knew what was coming and chose to save *no one.* Even if he'd shot down all the nukes, he would only protect the infrastructure, as the survivors would quickly run out of food and water, and thus be forced into the wastes regardless. The thing Ulysses misses is that House's end game was to simply leave Earth and find a new planet altogether, which would leave most of the people on Earth to die in the end regardless.
@@BlownOutSpeakers He also states that vegas was the best hope for saving humanity, he knew that the war was going to happen and nothing could stop it, not even him
@@Pyromancer_ so? He could have warned other cities and built defenses like the ones protecting vegas. He had 30 BILLION dollars to his name, clearly he could have done it. He was heartlessly apathetic, and millions died because of it.
Just for fun, I'd like to say why Ulysses was wrong about all three factions: 1. House's endgame is to send people into space, to find a new planet for people to live on. That may or may not be possible, but ultimately, House didn't bother saving people because they would be left to die regardless. 2. Caesar is fully aware that the Legion is overly militaristic, which is why he wants to make Vegas his new Rome, so the Legion can gain the kind of infrastructure needed to change. In all likelihood, most of the Legion would end up like the Thunder Warriors of 40K, being sent off to die in brutal battles while the Legion transitions into something diffrent. 3. The NCR has all the strengths and weaknesses of the Old World, but Kimball (and the war hawks with him,) will probably lose regardless: Hoover Dam was supposed to be an easy win, and since that didn't happen, the War Hawks will lose power no matter what. Depending on the Courier's actions, the corruption can even be curtailed, giving the NCR a chance to become something altogether diffrent from the Old World.
True on all accounts but I’d say it’s less that Ulysses is wrong than just say that he is simply stating what he observes. As the courier we get to have in-depth conversations with the heads of all the factions about their philosophy. Ulysses did not. But I’d say that as far as the legion and NCR that them changing is kind of a pipe dream. The legion is full of too many people indoctrinated into their beliefs and Caesar is dying so I doubt he will have the time needed for such a change. And the NCR will always be open to corruption Tandy attempted to stop it but her decisions were over turned by a future ruler. So stopping it now won’t stop it later.
Mr. House is certain to repeat the problems of the old world. He is possibly the smartest man on the planet, but he's also arrogant. He was a member of the ruling class created by the neo liberalism, and doesn't realize that he was the problem. He says that if you want to see the fate of democracies look out the window. That wasn't democracy, it was capitalism, taken so far to the extreme, that the democracy of the old world was compromised. The same level of capitalism that house wants.
People forget that ulysses is very emotional in his decision making. He says a lot of things that are from his blinded perspective. He is so eat up with rage at the Courier he wants to nuke the NCR just to hurt the guy.
So one thing I think you're missing in your analysis of the society in the Divide is the fact that it's ambiguous for a reason. It's the same reason the Courier doesn't have much of a 'canonical' personality. The story needs you to think the Divide was worth saving, but the actual details of that society are inconsequential, so the best way to get you invested is to leave the Divide up to interpretation and let you project your own values onto it, same as the Courier. Like yes the NCR, the Legion and House are all based on exploitation and violence, but the more thematically important trait they all share is the fact they're all holding onto the past. The Divide *could* be centered around cooperation and mutual aid, but I think trying to speculate about its canonical society is kinda missing the point. The only fixed thing about it is that it's something new instead of an imitation of something old. Good video though, it's nice to see someone really dive deep into Ulysses.
I only realized Ulysses may have been the courier that canceled the Platinum Chip delivery on my fifth playthrough when I for once didn't skip through the dialogue. For real though, this video deserves a crap ton more views than it has right now.
@@omnical6135 Because I thought I already knew everything when I finished my first playthrough. I just wanted to get Beagle, reprogram Slimm, repair ED-E and be on my merry way.
@@pittraider1221 All art is interpretation, and for you to diminish and dismiss one’s interpretation as pushing an agenda is missing the point entirely-this is only one interpretation.
I feel you, its sad to wake and see everything you work to build end up in ashes and to see all your ideas made meaningless. I can only say in hope that maybe those who come after can find a way to learn from those ideas and build something stronger, something worth it.
The Lonesome Road is some of my favorite moments in gaming. I was so glad I got to play this without it being spoiled. "War...war never changes. Men do, from the roads they walk, and this road has come to an end."
@WarCrimeGaming consumption and exploitation are not the same thing. You're just too capitalist to understand the difference. It is not human nature to exploit others.
@WarCrimeGaming overconsumption is not human nature. It started as a side effect of exploitation from monarchy and was brought to the commoners by advertisement. Communal societies that have not developed wealth hierarchy do not exhibit overconsumption, even when it is within their means. Not only are you wrong, but you're confidently ignorant.
Was just finishing off a replay of New Vegas for the first time in years and found your video! Really fantastic! For my own opinion, a little bit of an expansion to your conclusion on the Divide & what it might have been, I think the key point is that it's a supply road, "a bridge between east & west", it's something that allows the sharing of material resources and the creation of social relations, and this of course being an area racked by storms and being generally inhospitable. I always took it to be that the idea that people could still cooperate and connect within the most inhospitable conditions was what inspired Ulysses, this then ties into his thing with couriers building communities. How do couriers build communities? By connecting them with others, by bridging divides ;) Also a small production note that might help in future, you show the convo between the courier & Ulysses, and while Ulysses's lines are voiced, the couriers aren't. A lot of people like to listen to video essays in the background, so it might've helped to have someone say the couriers lines in the voiceover as well for those people.
Hey, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I felt an anarchistic line of thought, more so from the Conquest of Bread, could be applied to the Divide but after finishing the video I felt I should have expanded it just a little bit more. I definitely see what you say that couriers, in Ulysses' eyes, bridge divides between communities and reconnect them. Wished I phrased it that way now.
As a kid playing fallout I thought Ulysses was just some crazy fanatic. Now as an adult I see things his way, I understand. Maybe we wasn’t wrong but he went about it the wrong way. Good ideas bad executions but maybe that’s the only way they’d listen? Perhaps it’s the only way.
That’s what I kind of like about Ulysses and is my strongest pull to him. He’s just a dude who wants what’s best but the only tool of change he has is a bunch of nukes. He’s like a artist trying to fix a painting but all he has is a hammer.
I wish we got Ulysses as a companion, I kept him alive using max speech because I couldn’t bring myself to kill him. What broke me is going back to the canyon wreckage and just seeing him sitting…staring out at the divide.
When playing Lonesome Road for the first time, I wanted to kill him all the way up till the end, but when confronting him I realised that he can be actually reasoned with and decided to do that, fighting alongside him against the Marked felt like the most epic thing I've ever done in this game, I even originally planned on bombing the Legion, because fuck them, but I couldn't do that after this and ended up defusing the warhead completely
For what it's worth, I think Ulysses is right in his diagnosis. Even though it's the 100 Speech option, there's no way the NCR actually changes. Its mores and values are already established; there's no changing them without something dramatically changing the very nature of their regime. That being said, the legion is no different in terms of being primed towards war, so if Ulysses really is committed to his convictions, there's no reason why he shouldn't send the nuke to Dry Wells as well.
@@andrewbowen2837Not really. Rome did become a war-based economy during it's transition from Republic to Empire with slaves and new lands funding its continued expansion but originally it was a fairly normal society if a bit more martial then others and so it could transition back to just a society with a standing military force. Again Sparta was super-miliaristic but it didn't require expansion to live, it had a massive slave-based economy in the form of the helots to uphold it's militarised ruling class and that was sustainable even without conquest cause the Helots would continue to breed to produce new slaves. Both had a strong focus on military matters but war was not their sole purpose. The Legion is different though. It was born out of conquest and assimilation and that has always been its purpose. When they lost at Hoover dam they didn't recover by demobilising their forces and rebuiding over time like most societes do. They recovered by conquering lots of more tribes for fresh recruits to fill the army, their entire strength comes from continual military conquest for slaves and recruits (though in a way even the recruits are slaves to their indoctrination under Caesar). The Legion has no civilian infrastructure, they have plenty of civilians in their territory in the cities but they aren't really part of the Legion and as far as we know don't even pay taxes while all the tribals outside the cities become slaves and recruits for the Legion. Basically the Legion is an army without a country and when it runs out of room and/or capability to expand it will die. It may even just die with Caesar himself, he talks a big game about the whole synthesis but who knows if he could actually acheive it because if he dies before then the Legion will devolve into civil war within a few years. Sorry for the rant, I just really love talking about New Vegas.
So far I'm really enjoying this. I definitely feel for Ulysses. Im glad he's getting the attention he deserves. His story is genuinely heart wrenching and I think the lessons in the DLC are very important.
This is super thought provoking. Not only is F:NV one of my favorites in the series, Ulysses is my favorite character with The Burned Man following a close second. I don't know how long this took you, but thank you for putting it out. Its great. Happy holidays mate
One thing I thought was kind of unclear about Ulysses is what he sees in America and not in the Republic. It's obviously not just that he thought it was a better place (after all, he hates the old world), there's some kind of abstract idea there with what he means by it. But I never managed to pick up on what it was.
(Sorry if my english isn't perfect, it's not my first language) He carries the Old World Flag and the name Ulysses because of Ulysses S. Grant, in his mind Grant "fought to unite two tribes under one flag.".
@@ivoazevedo1667 thorny subject, but you can trace much of current day america's problems back to the union victory (an over-centralized govt for instance). Ulysses had to be atleast somewhat aware of this when he said grant wasnt built for peace, roughly quoted. Imo, he believed in what america once was, the ideals it stood for. Folk governing themselves. Not a dictator like caesar (house to an extent as well), not out of touch politicians in the ncr, if that makes sense. Dont really know how to condense this w/o going into a wall of text lol
Given the divergent timeline between Fallout and our world, Ulysses may be pining for America before it became the dystopian nightmare it was at the time of the Resource Wars.
@@mfspectacular I can sort of see that, he was into like the abstract idea of what America claimed to be about (liberte egalite fraternite type sentiment) rather than the actual way it was.
@@mfspectacular Thank you for pointing this out. I get so sick of slavery beong the only point brought up about the war. It was a shit situation but Americans on both sides saw the folly of both sides amd tried to fight for what they thought was right. My great grandaddy was a confederate private... and first generation immigrant from swedan.
It’s always insane whenever I notice another complicated topic demonstrated perfectly by new Vegas. Like with cultural appropriation. It’s not some trivial nonsense people use to police the people around them. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s the desecration of history and culture. Hearing Ulysses describe the agony he felt seeing imitations of his braids, seeking cultural meaning where there was only imitation and mockery, that’s what cultural appropriation is and it’s harm. Or with Caesar’s fascist rule. It’s easy for anyone to say “yeah I think fascist dictatorships are bad”. But showing why someone might fight and die for such an obviously bad cause is fascinating. There are legitimate benefits to Caesar’s rule. But do those outweigh the harms? Are the alternatives even viable? And suddenly you realize how someone could get swept up in Mussolini’s Italy or something. TLDR; Fallout new Vegas is legitimately an associate level political science degree disguised as a video game
“Mr house abandoned everyone to die” lmao. If it wasn’t for him destroying half of the nuclear warheads New Vegas would have ended up just like the divide lol. Had his calculations have been more accurate the entire patch of new Vegas would have been completely untouched by the bombs. 10:59
I like your further delve into the aspect of Ulysses and his beliefs and would like to give my own input. In one of the dialogue options you can ask Ulysses about his name and he mentions that its a reference to the divide and more importantly the courier and his ability in turning two flags into one. Ulysses is not enraged at the courier for destroying the divide but the possibility of the divide being able to assimilate cultures under their flag without using war, combining two nations/ideologies into one. Ulysses wants the courier to feel the same pain Ulysses felt when the divide was destroyed and the hope of a nation without war being gone forever. when referencing the NCR and saying "who are you who doesn't know your history" Ulysses does not know the history behind the NCR, the founding by a small farming community or the slow growth after Tandis death. Ulysses doesn't know the past of the nation he seeks to destroy only the present and is unwilling to see the future. A man blinded by the fear of history repeating itself. his hatred is to much for him to realize the future. The divide is not a socialist/communistic society its an ideology that war wont change but man can instead and courier 6 is the living embodiment of that.
My mistake was playing fallout new vegas like fallout 4, I had expected quests to herald not much of an important story, same with dlc, so I simply just rushed through everything, and never cared to check tapes or anything. This made my first run far worse than it could of been, all that story I had missed due to me playing in a way that was insulting to how well written the game was. I just thought Ulysees was a man who saw both flaws in the NCR and legion, and just wanted to do what the people of the old world did, but this helped me see his true value, so thanks I guess
Graham makes Ulysses look like a toddler. Faith in God and His plan above earthly nations and their ideals. Ulysses believes in a certain inflexible inevitability to systems and - to some degree - the people that make them up. Graham is into a duality of both conviction and redemption, both judgement and mercy. "Light in the darkness" - plus he cleans pistols all day when he's not shooting them. Ulysses monologues to himself and twiddles his thumbs.
Ulysses is one of very few characters that I frequently do entire game playthroughs just to speak with again, because his words carry so much weight, his conflict bears so much a detailed reflection of reality, and for once, in a science fiction game, I can solely make a difference in being better, in making him see it too, and make all the suffering worth something. Who are you, that do not know your history? Nothing more than marked men.
New Vegas is ultimately a critique on Tribalism and the idea of In-groups over Out-Groups, which says a lot about Players who side with particular factions and defend that decision.
I’m going to be honest everyone rags on the NCR for repeating the past, but what’s the actual alternative? What’s the new system that hasn’t been tried before?
Well if its an idea that isn't from the past then it must be from the future, so if it exists now it defeats the purpose dummy. But nah, personally you could argue that the game is marxist and is pushing for a Socialist utopia in the wastes. You could also argue that the only way to not repeat the past is tribalism, as the past few thousands of years of development only led to nuclear war. You could also argue that the message of New Vegas is a Marxist one, and that the followers are the best option since the game just shit-talks just about every other ideology.
You make an interesting claim on Ulysses' support of the Divide based on a communitarian society. Although it's a personal assumption, and there's nothing in game lore to support or decry this view, I think the exclusion of outright stating support for such a particular practicing ideology for The Divide in the game is more important than any hypothetical ideology. I feel that, more than anything else, Ulysses seeks a society, a community that he believes in, and he's meant to parallel the player in that regard. As the player, we form the New Vegas area into our vision of the ideal community - there may be 4 different endings, but there's multiple combinations through these endings. Do you pursue a peaceful, pro-alliance NCR or a militaristic, uncompromising one? Do you make a co-operative Yes Card ending or an "every man for himself" chaotic anarchy? The Divide represents to Ulysses this end-game "perfect community", and it's left vague so that we also can project onto it what we believe a perfect community is in our game, and so that we can compare and emphasize with Ulysses loss. After all, one of the key themes is to "know what we stand for - even if it is nothing at all" and by leaving the ideology of The Divide by and large up to the Player, we can project what we know we "stand for" onto it. For you, that's a communitarian anarchy, for me that can be a multilateral, fair trade social democracy, yet for others this may parallel the corporatism of House or an order-centric society of Caesar. That's the beauty of The Divide, and New Vegas as a whole - it can be whatever we stand for.
I think you hit the nail on the head head for what the writers were going for. This is why I've come to the conclusion that the courier taking over New Vegas with good karma is the true canon ending. By the end of the courier's journey they realize what has been lost at the divide (a chance at something greater than bear or bull or house) thanks to Ulysses and then works to recreate that which was lost. Making New Vegas into the new Divide and creating a new nation, a new symbol. If one man can destroy a whole nation than one man can raise one as well.
@@billygrantham5380 I think house is canon(or well most likely to become canon) as his diplomatic approach leaves the other factions to be usable on the future. We could see the long term effects of the Brahmin Barons in the NCR. We could also see Caesar potentially forced to make the transfer to a less militarized society early, without Vegas, which while it would disappoint him not to have his Rome, he would also not have anywhere to really fuel his tool anymore
Ive watched this about 4 times now and I still love it. How the hell does this guy only have like 300 subs he should have around 1000 or more it was a very talented and well thought out vid
In what world did Mr House leave everyone to die? He literally did everything he could to protect Vegas and it still wasn't enough. Not saying he's perfect but he didn't "abandon" anyone.
The guy superimposed socialist views into Ulysses, despite it being clear that he rejects, if not outright despises, the monolith of the State, seeing with how much disdain he speaks of THE BEAR AND BULL. He brushes off House because it doesn't fit into the narrative he is trying to build, so he says what he says about House. It's pretty clear.
In the world that House, having clear knowledge of the coming apocalypse, chose not to prevent it, but to save himself and his territory in order to rule on his own in the future.
@@deadprank947 He might had the knowledge, and even then it wasn't 100% accurate as the original delivery of the Platinum chip shows, he was just the CEO of Robco industries even if they were in partnership with the military what could have he done? Was he able to influence the chinese or even the members of the Pre-war enclave? No he couldn't, and as he himself says "I know I couldn't save the world nor did I care to but I could save Vegas" protect the people he could
yess omg it makes me so happy to see someone else so interested in ulysses hes by far my fav fallout character n his politics n story n everything he teaches u is amazing... its sad to see a big part of the fandom brush him off as dramatic n evil for whatever reason
A lot of "Fallout Fans" fail to understand Ulysses is a tribal, that's why all the hate towards him, the way he speaks. For me he is one of the best written characters of all times.
I feel a lot of people gloss over that House and Caesar are looking forward to change, in the case of House even if he is an autocrat he wants to use his knowledge and experience in the old world to transform the post war one and eventually surpass it even if his methodology to gain influence of power is Pre-war his true interest are moving forward. In the case of Caesar his intentions are to change the Legion after conquering the NCR to change it, to create a better society with the aspects of the two. In the end is not known if they succed as the future of the Mojave itself is left mostly vage aside form the specific characters or small factions in the short term, but they are still searching for change
I like how they never actually describe what sort of government the divide had because if you knew you could immediately tie it to a pre-existing thing and Ulysses’ entire weird, poorly written, complicated, confused backstory and motivation completely fall apart.
My dude. This is awesome. New Vegas is my favorite game and Ulysses is my favorite character. Sooooo complex, and I’ve been trying to find a really great in depth analysis of him and his beliefs. This was a really great video essay, really well put together. Keep up the great work!
I guess one of the most important things I can take from the video is that there is, in fact, such a thing as being too big when it comes to a country/nation. If a nation grows too much in too little time, it does not necessarily mean a good thing. Entropy is a thing, and that even the most prosperous of nations will eventually face decline.
I don’t know how you could make a video on Ulysses, and somehow manage to have a 10 minute aside, talking about the failures of capitalism, when the “not willing to fight for anything outside of more land they can’t control” is clearly what made Ulysses hate the NCR.
That's linked to capitalism though. Capitalist regimes will only fight in wars that benefit them economically, they rarely if ever will fight a war for humanitarian reasons. I'm not sure if the anti-capitalist critique applies to Ulysses' ideology, but your point doesn't really debunk it.
The following was written as a response to Ulysses for my creative writing class: “Who are you, that do not know your history?” Of country and of flag, of a symbol that misguides, Forges conflict in the unchanging fires of war. You escaped death by virtue of their ignorance, Their allegiance to a dead empire, endless cycles of knowledge In the name of what once was but is now no more. I have heard your words, and I have felt their pain. The roads you’ve walked, the ghosts that haunt them. You watched your past come back to life, Only for it to vex and torment you. The braids they wove, crafted by hands That raped. Pillaged. Burned. Mocking history. The Divide stands strong between us, And it has led us both to this precipice. Our paths, like Bear and Bull, run parallel. One leads to destruction, the other to salvation. If you claim my path is destruction, Then you know where yours must lead.
This is a nice take with some wonderful production value. It's quite refreshing to hear someone construct an argument and have their own political convictions blatantly shine through (Kropotkin is based
As an Indigenous woman, Lonesome Road and Honest Hearts felt like love letters to me. Even though I'm Eastern Woodland Native, totally different from our relatives in the west, but we were once all family on Turtle Island. When he talks about his braids being taken, I teared up. My great great great great grandfather was a p.o.w of another tribe and they cut his hair as a form of humiliation. He was so scarred by his treatment, the story still gets passed down. Now I'm passing it down to you all. John Gonzalez deserves more flowers for the research and work put in his story telling.
gonna put it out there but i think what ulysses saw isn't meant to be explained in a literal sense. he saw a perfect world, something which is up to interpretation, swept away by the tides of the old. he believed that the only way he could get back what was lost was by restarting again, desperate for a return of what he once loved.
Lol this dude seriously goes "we dont know anything about the divide...but I was reading an unrelated book and I like it so im just gonna use that to describe it"
I don't understand how more ppl don't like this dlc it's the best, most philosophical dlc in the game, and if you're actually paying attention, it really makes you think
I disagree about the portrayal of Mr. House in this video. House ended up predicting the apocalypse, saving New Vegas, and would have done much more, but the bombs fell before he could put all of his plans in action, so he had to postpone them. It feels like the creator of the video holds views that are probably more egalitarian and left-wing and chooses to describe House as just a selfish greedy billionaire.
@chris mcd he figured it out fifteen years before the Great War. The only reason saving vegas didn't go exactly to plan is because the delivery of the platinum chip was off by a day. He had *fifteen years* to get crap done, and yet he chose to only save vegas.
@chris mcd man, him "having to put in lasers for a whole city" isn't a big deal, honestly. He didn't do that, he paid people to, which would be no issue as he was, in his own words, "a billionaire thirty times over". And doing the same process in even a single other city could have saved millions of lives, which he didn't even attempt! And don't be a stuck up ass pretending you're smarter than me, or that I somehow just don't get it. If he had the logistics for one city down, it'd need only minor alterations for other cities, and those could be prepared and built at the same time as vegas.
I don't think House could have done anything to save the world tbh. There is a lot wrong with him, but he shouldn't get blamed for not saving more people
I'm so fucking tired of hearing people say Mr House selfishly chose to protect Vegas and let the rest of the world burn during the great war. Just the fact that he went out of his way to save Vegas was a good selfless deed since he could have just ignored it and chosen to protect himself. He chose Vegas because it was his home and where it was raised. Even if he wanted to save the rest of the world from the bombs he couldn't, the most powerful man has only so much resources. To the people who use this argument to say Mr House doesn't care about humanity, I ask them to search up his last words before the Courier kills him
@@KrausHaus0 Autocrat. There is a subtle but important difference. Would you not save yourself from the Apocalypse if you could? He Also saved Vegas, an entire city
I think a major thing you missed was Ulysses was not against exploitation he was against building off the back of the old. He wanted to tear down the institutions that were created from the old and let something new come about since the old did not evolve or change. I do think Ulysses was an Anarchist, but i don't believe that in the post apocalyptic setting idk that Socialism, Roman Revanchism, Corporatocracy, or Neo liberal Democracy played into Ulysses thinking.
Ulysses is one of the greatest characters and stories told in gaming. At no other point in any other Bethesda game did I have feelings and thoughts caused by the story. I started out being neutral to him, by the time I found him, I made sure we could talk shit out. Such a strong story, and Top 3 DLC of all time for me.
A few things I noticed and not trying to nitpick but Ulysses wasn’t physically present at the first battle for Hoover dam and Joshua’s punishment. In lore he returns to Caesar shortly afterwards and is told to then go lead the White Legs to destroy New Canaan. It’s after the destruction of New Canaan and Ulysses’ disillusionment of the White Legs does he officially abandon the Legion and return to the now broken Divide.
Ulysses by far for me personally is the single most insufferable and aggravating boss character in any fallout game. he NEVER shuts up, your forced to combat corridor to even get to him in the 1st place and he's like 'You courier are the monster here, for doing your job, having zero clue what the package was or could do, destroying what i saw as humanity's best hope, whilst me, Ulysses, the legion servant, who helped genocide New Canaan and trained and equipped the tribe who did it for Caesar and I'm planning to launch nuclear missiles out of spite, am the righteous one'
Its like really my dude? you are in no position to be shit talking anyone else for their decisions when your arguably the single worst one to do that, i just personally find Ulysses pretentious and massively hypocritical, great video my guy, just hate this particular character.
I agree with your point of him being in no position to call out the Courier when he has done just as bad, my brother in Christ were mail men not forces of nature I don't know you! And I do somewhat agree with you on Ulysses interms of how he pushes the blame on us. But I just wanted to make my point that despite this, he isn't some edgy Ahh drone who talks to much and wants kill everyone for the sake of it all (for the most part at least). And I feel like not a lot of people appreciate Ulysses for leaving the leagion as this is a big thing to do that not a lot of people appreciate about him as mind you this guy grew up under a religious Cult of personality and how he was taught from a young age to forever worship, gas up and juggle Caesers balls after watching his entire world be burned by Vulpes and replaced with a new one. And despite the heavy brain washing when he was exposed to new ideas instead of doubling down and fighting back against those ideas like most Legion drones, He went out of his way and defied was was essentially the will of his God which is expressed in his Holotapes on how he found it hard to even conceive the notion of going against the Legion despite hating them on account of that being the only life he had ever known. And despit all that went out to learn new perspectives and actively find alternatives better than the Legion and fight against them it's why the Devide matters to him so much despite never living a day there aside just passing through. And when you put it from that persepective you genuinely begin to sympathise with him as his essentially a dark reflection of Joshua Graham if he never got a chance at redemption because Ulysses is exetly what Joshua would have become if Zion got nuked before he even got a chance to change his life and truly leave his scuffed past behind and be better. A massage on how broken people need a second chance and a reason to keep going, Joshua had the bible and Zion and Ulysses had the memory of his tribe and the Devide. But what happens if you take that second chance away from them? And Joshua graham when we measure both there Crimes has done way, way worse and if anything he created Ulysses with him likely being the first person Ulysses reported back to after the discovery of Hoover Dam. With him acknowledgeding Ulysses was the one who sent the white legs when he first meets the Courier when he sais *"Not the Courier I was expecting but I suppose he wouldn't have come with a Caravan"* . And yet Joshua doesn't actively hold it against him or blames him for helping the white legs as he ackwndeges he was just following Caesers Will just like him as Courtesy of both of them being former legion Soldiers and if it wasn't Ulysses Caeser would have just sent a nother one of his goons like Vulpes to do the job. Again I agree with you on Ulysses being a bad person but I just wanted to point out his capacity to change by hearing out the Courier and his quest for redemption and genuine guilt for helping the Legion until that motivation to be better than those slavers it was all snuffed out. And how he could have been a better person if anybody actually gave him a chance to do just that. And honestly when I met Ulysses for the first time I killed him out of annoyance as this man blamed me for something I had nothing to do with and u was skipping through his dialogue so fast all I wanted to do was take him out and steal Old glory and his old world flag duster. But on my Second playthrough after bothering to listen to his holo tapes I Genuinely began to ball my eyes out as it's almost like the universe actively went out of its way to screw him over for the crime of just existing with his speech to the think tank solidifying him as one of my favorite fallout goats to have ever existed. And I still killed him regardless and barried him just so I could put him out of his misery as my guy lived a hard life and him punishing him self by sniping marked men on a ledge till he eventually ran out of bullets was a wake up call telling me I needed to give him peace. He might have deserved having his penance and getting torn apart by the Devide on account he wanted to make his problems every onece problem and cause a second nuclear Haulocost. But he had been punished enough and deserved his rest, something Joshua would have done if he saw Ulysses now and what he would have become if he was never given a second chance him self.
Улисс обучил белоногих, дал им оружие и отправил уничтожить новый ханаан. Раговаривая с ним, я всегда вспоминаю рассказ Дэниела о том, какой геноцид устроили белоногие в новом ханаане. Я заставил Улисса отказаться от своей идеи, отправил ракеты на некогда родное племя Улисса, а самого его сбросил в каньон, перед которым он сидит.
To be fair with the help of vulpes Joshua did help orginize the genocide of Ulysses tribe and 82 others, with most of them being thrown at baulder city before it blew up so... If anything Joshua created Ulysses...
So Ulysses’s whole hang up is that the Courier caused something catastrophic without realizing it, and the courier needs to pay for it yeah? Meanwhile, during his time in Big Mountain, Ulysses “woke up” the Think Tank by asking questions he never should have asked, and could have caused them to destroy a great deal of the wasteland had not the Courier stepped in to pacify them...
This is why I love this game. I care about these characters and they gave me perspective as well. I went into it thinking this whole game would be dumb fun but boy was I wrong. Each DLC unfolded more and more about the world and it's impact on the current times. Then the game throws in characters like Ulysses and Joshua Gram, who have such power things to say. I couldn't skip a line, I was too engaged, I simply wanted to speak more to them. Their perspectives and arcs give you a moral dilemma when finishing the game. Once you go back to New Vegas after exploring these areas the whole place changes each time. You see the entire world in a new light.
Ppl call him a yapper or make fun of the bear bull stuff, but hes still well written, the real reason why ppl hate him is because he accuses you of wiping out a whole nation, heavily blames you for everything happening to him. Of course gamers ate gonna take it to heart lol
It’s really important to realize that English is not Ulysses’ first language. He pauses and chooses his words very carefully when he talks, enunciates certain words with more feeling, because he’s translating the closest interpretations of a probably very different tribal dead language.
It also explains why he starts sentences in his unique way.
Yeah, i love the way he pronounces strength, really emphasizes the N
Man is eloquient in his strange way every word drips with meaning symbolism and metaphor.
He is inspiring
Yes,I had this point of view when debating on it with my older brother, Ulysses holds English as a 2nd language at least maybe even 3rd considering his position as a frumentarii,he's had to learn and experience other cultures well enough to infiltrate in a relatively short time in his life that it's easy to understand why he'd have that pause,I myself have at at times,I speak Spanish, Portuguese and English, I've had moments when I slip up and answer at times in a different tongue because I find myself speaking those languages constantly,so to imagine in a post war scene with a new assortment of dialects, Ulysses would feel a Similar tug,to time himself as he speaks to fit his own ,like as he speaks he'd probably be translating his thoughts in his tribal tongue to English in a exact form,lacking the flow and more nuance in English as historically some language types lacked these,so to us it feels odd.
When Ulysses talks about his tribe and how the White Legs stole his braids you can feel his breaking point
Mhmm
Imagine a priest offers their holy book and the local tribes twists and defiles the meanings of the myths and stories of said book.
The stories, myths and overall meaning of the holy book would relate to Ulysses' knots having meaning in their twists and turns.
The level of disgust they feel.
Not the best analogy, though.
@@muffinman2546 No its quite fine.
yes and like not that they stole it, but that it had no meaning, no history to them except that they wanted to make a homage to Ulysses
U can hear the anger and silent fury when he brings up the subject
Raise up if you've always kept a hardsave for the moment you were to confront Ulysses.
Yup, I could never kill him because of those stupid bloody medical eyebots
@@Shadow0-2 same
@@Shadow0-2 Sneak Attack headshot, Anti Material Rifle with AP rounds, confirmed kill. Just shoot him the moment you enter the temple.
Yup did both options it's more rewarding to keep him alive and nuke both NCR and Caesar's Legion and if u don't agree it's understandable
He could merc you quick if you don't lob some mini-nukes 😅
I could listen to Ulysses read a phone book
Same. Or a dictionary.
Eight. Trifecta. Nil. Jackpot. Snake eyes. Quadro. Quadro.
10 Hour Ulysses ASMR
I could get it done.
so you like numbers then?? Ulysses read this man Infinity.....
Ulysses: [stares]
That holotape, about Ulysses and the White Legs, always evoked a strong emotional response within me. The amount of hurt that can be produced by a well meant but ultimately ignorant gesture can be much worse than ill intent just on it's own.
Ur not wrong
dude sounded like he was a sjw triggered over culture appreciation. He can be upset about it, but it's up to him for himself to feel however he wants. What they did was sincere and that makes all the difference.
@@gpheonix1 He's more upset about the White Legs misrepresenting his dead tribe's culture rather than them appreciating it
@@dashua1735 exactly. Offense is taken not received. It’s ridiculous.
@@gpheonix1 And offense is sometimes done without intent
I love how Obsiden made all there DLCs storys conected to each other
Makes playing Lonesome Road last even better knowing that even if this is the first time we actually speak and meet Ulysses he still had his marks in all the others and even the main game.
learn how to spell, jesus. I love how obsidian made all their DLC stories connected to each other.
@@wallten360 English is probably not his first language.
@@wallten360 English isn't everyones first language, retard.
@@wallten360 okay elitist
I suddenly realized that English isn't Ulysses' first language. Linguistically, some languages are more indirect, layered, even enigmatic. His original tongue could've been just like that, full of unique expressions and thought patterns hence the cryptic speech pattern that comes off as him speaking in riddles. When you hear him pausing or breaking up his sentences, it's because he's sorting through his thoughts, trying to translate them from a tribal language that doesn't even exist anymore thanks to Caesar which tbh makes it sadder.
It's not even his second language. Ulysses presumably speaks fluent Latin as his second language.
“We remember... America...” that part hits hard.
America's feet
Joshua Baker oh no
Americas Feet Pics 😛😜😝😋
When Ulysses talks, all I hear is; Bear, Bull, Bear, Bull, Bull, Bear, Bull, Courier. Bear and Bull.
and yet I always keep listening. His dialogue + voice + history all make up for one of the best characters I ever saw in any piece of media.
@@zeynaviegas Yeah, your right. It is interesting, I just said it for the meme.
@@anothertexasboi3146 lol revisiting this comment I realized how weird my response was
To be honest the divide is one of the best DLC in a meta context (i prefer old world blues overal because its zany as fuck) because in the end ulysses is dissing the 2 factions by their obvious flaws wile the way to disuade him from his plan is actualy by aserting the courrier agency ober the sitation.
Nah it’s the bear, the flag, the bull, the road, our path, Bull, tribe, flag, the bull, the bear
Thank you for this, as a child I played the entirety of fallout new Vegas. As an adult I always though back the New Vegas and its exceptional story writing and though that I missed alot of the meaning in the story due to my adolescence.
The lonesome road is the culmination of all that. I just wish i has the intellect to understand this when i was rushing though the game guns blazing all those years ago
Same here. I had a ton of fun playing through all of FNV content, but never really understood the more nuanced aspects. Especially Ulysses, because his holotapes were so hard for me to understand when I was younger, because his grammar was strange to me. The tapes were very piece-meal, because they're kind of like short bullet notes. It took this vid for me to better understand what the heck he was doing, and what he stood for
Lol I remember the first time I played new Vegas was in 2012 at my brothers house. Got stuck on the vigor tester for an hour and gave up.
@@Idontwannashutup How did you get "stuck" on the vigor tester of all things?
@@geraldchurchill5576 I was 11. I got all the way to the like finalization screen where it displays all the stats but I couldn’t find out the fuckin right d pad let you actually play.
@@geraldchurchill5576 don’t judge me you black neighbor
The implacations of Ullyses speech about history are bone chilling. His mind is shattered by the thought of a Courier who could destroy history and he understand the power of change can come from even the most lowly servants in society.
Is actually genius and maddening to understand that. Everyone have the capabilities of change, everyone can destroy or create.
Is bone chilling.
It's internalizing, so that people don't need to, say hurt each other much anymore, kill each other online, I say, live in relative peace otherwise, I sure love a good brawl every now and again, though you shouldn't forget yourselves.
It's also beautiful, the potential is truly infinite, and who knows it could be someone in this comment section that changes everything
I said something similar when i was little in school and the teachers were shocked
"Could you win a fight with me?" Some one asked
"Anyone can hurt anyone" i replied
I continued saying "any one can hold a knife anyone can pull a trigger anyone can throw a punch"
It's too idealistic, however. Ulysses wants a wasteland with no rulers. That's simply not achievable. Even if the Courier were to wipe out every big name and faction out there (which, first of all, would be nothing short of mass genocide), new rulers would simply spring up after the Courier left or died. Like it or not, humanity can't survive without rulers. Someone has to be in charge. If there isn't, someone will rise to the task.
You can understand exactly where Ulyses comes from, and empathize with him deeply, but at the end of the day, a Mojave with no gods or kings is a doomed Mojave. It's simply resetting the board - but the same game will just play out again.
@@bugjams I agree with your take on how human beings as a species will tend to organize themselves when starting from a blank slate without leaders. I'm not an evolutionary biologist or an anthropologist, so this isn't coming from a place of expertise, but we know what the turning point in the history of Homo sapiens was, that took us from existing like any other species in that genus and delivered us into our pre-history of modern humanity as we understand it. What it was, was specializing, allowing different people to dedicate their time to things _other than_ hunting or gathering all day. So with that in mind, doesn't it make perfect sense why we'd naturally want to organize into groups with leaders ensuring that all of our survival tasks are being completed, allowing others to comfortably spend time passing on their knowledge (teaching), inventing, building settlements, being creative, etc.? And just speaking from personal experience, I don't want to lead anything. Nothing within the fiber of my being wants to worry about what other people are doing. I will always want someone else to do the task delegating in a group, and that feels DEEPLY instinctual to me, like it's a sense that was being passed down long before I inherited it.
About Ulysses, I don't know that he wants no gods or kings perpetually though. In my interpretation of his actions, especially when he's being grilled in conversation with the Courier, he wants more than anarchy, he wants a new society, which includes new leaders, and he's gotten this idea into his head that none of the symbols of active societies (that he knows about) will end up passing his vibe check (not Caesar, not the Brotherhood of Steel, not the New California Republic, not Vegas) at any point, but that SOMEHOW, if he resets it all back to a clean slate (which can never be clean if any humans survive, and they will, because even mass genocide with nukes leaves survivors, but I digress lol), whatever shows up AFTER he topples NCR with nukes, and then Caesar after that (if necessary), will be a symbol worth rallying behind, worth calling *home.*
But we can convince Ulysses that it's psychotic to think that whatever comes after his intentional deadly intervention will inherently be better than anything that came before it. We can convince him of the virtue of allowing the conflict of ideas to play out on its own, to allow "failed" symbols to prove their failures on their own without a single individual deciding that they're wrong and have failed. And he gets it, allowing us to talk him down.
Ulysses seems like the perfect Anti-thesis to Courier Six, atleast from my choices. Ulysses joined the Legion and learned of their lack of vision from the inside eventually looking to parties outside of NCR-Legion for hope for the future. Six joins the NCR, learns of its lack of a future and turns elsewhere to pursue a better future for the Mojave. Ulysses would want an independent ending if you could talk and work together.
Mr. house is the only faction with a future, a vision, and the long life to see it through.
@@seemeno1 Even then, House is like Caesar. He's just using an army of metal instead of meat. He, much like caesar, brought the other "tribes" to heel and amalgamated them into a singular unit. He, like Caesar, wishes to rule over the Mojave and if he dies, his legacy disintegrates. If you ask me, Ulysses would want the truly independent ending with Yes Man.
@@SSD_Penumbra Mr House could live centuries, and his ideas won’t fizzle out with his death, neither would Caesars. With Mr House that’s especially true as entire generations will have lived and died under his libertarian ideology. And Mr House also has incredibly different and smarter ruling tactics than Caesar. He obliterates tribal identities for the better, instead of turning them into slave soldiers, he turns them into customers and service providers.
@@seemeno1 Except the Brotherhood, who he destroys because, as he put it, "can't be reasoned with". He also doesn't care about The Boomers, saying you can "do what you want with them". Wouldn't it make more sense to keep them on your good side, seeing as how a heavily armed population who is your ally tends to be a good thing. The Brotherhood value tech, and most of it is useless pre-war stuff, so why wipe them out? They don't want Vegas.
He's a Libertarian in name only. He still would rather be on the NCR's good side and if that means turning a blind eye to their settlers taking over in the sake of profit, so be it.
NCR is the best ending
I always wished there was a Follower of the Apocalypse ending. I suppose going wildcard kinda supports it, but in my opinion the Followers were always the best choice for New Vegas.
The followers are sketchy too
@@WM-gf8zm how so?
@@voldendream they will kill you sometimes and have weird schisms. Its better to put them aside.
@@WM-gf8zm bro everything i encountered them they never once tried to kill me unless I attacked them
@@voldendream i mean lore wise
When Ulysses said: “War, war never changes, men do. Through the roads they walk and this road has reached its end.” In the epilogue I knew Fallout was done as a series. Ulysses brought the lore full circle and set the Courier up to change the face of the planet forevermore
I liked the part when he said "It's Bear&Bull-yin' time" and the Beared and Bulled all over
@@amadeusagripino6862 That was the secret ending if you upgraded ED-E and found all the posters
Let's not try make what happens in America relevent in other countries in the fucking apocalypse too
@@omarma7815 You seem to understand very little of what the game is presenting. Cesar founded a Roman empire out of the ruins of the American Midwest. Ulyssesus wants the world to move on WITHOUT that, to truly start a new. It's exactly what would change the world.
@@amadeusagripino6862 UYAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhAHAHAHHAHA
🤡
What Ulysses sought was to apply the tribal dynamic to a nation-state. The reason this doesn't work is because a tribe is, as Joshua Graham put it, a "linked family of families." The trouble with applying this to a nation-state is that there's a limited number of people that humans can care about enough to act in the way that Ulysses idealizes (Dunbar's number). Even Joshua Graham himself concluded that tribal life was superior to modern life. Within the tribe, people can be loving and selfless toward one another because they genuinely care for one another. Unfortunately, everyone outside of the tribe are the "other." The Divide could have been such a society in the beginning, but ultimately a nation-state needs laws and incentives other than selflessness to succeed, otherwise it simply gets devoured by a larger, more predatory society as wasteland tribes are repeatedly shown to be by both the Legion and the NCR.
Wether that is really true doesn't change the conclusion. In fact it would bolster his original conclusion of destruction.
If war doesn't change man must.
Without the spirit of cooperation man is doomed the fate of explotation and destruction.
"turns out he isnt based"💀💀🥴
He aint based, but he aint exacly cringe either
He’s just a man
@@Prototype9871 so a pleb🤢🤮
Ulysses was woke before it was a thing
@@b3nl555 He's just woke
i really liked this video, but i have to comment about the ending:
a big part of Ulysses's philosophy is the rejection of corrupt simbols, and that is a big part of nihilist anarchism, such as Stirner's egoism. just as in normal nihilism, you must reject everything, including nihilsm itself, in order to truly see what is important.
Ulysses rejected the facism of the bull and the greedyness of the bear, he embraced the power of the individual that forges its own future. Ulysses is BASED.
Sounds like vague gobbledygook to me.
@Sįzïjï Spartans don’t fight in formations? Lol okay
People need to stop using terrible intellectual wannabe lingo.
@Bob Bob gang gang
I wasnt expecting the words max stirner said here
I don't think politics matter to him anymore, he's a desperate, broken man trying to figure out a reason for everything he experienced other than "shit happens" and trying to justify it to himself so he doesn't crack completely
@@9volt65 are you saying everything is political?
I think politics is just a part of the Big Picture to Ulysses. He seems to care about humanity’s future, but it’s been corrupted by war. He thinks that instead of trying to help communities, societies, civilizations grow, they must be “tested” in the most extreme manners, or they are not worthy, like he and The Courier, to live and go on in this world.
@@BLK_MN Every monologue Ulysses makes screams of him saying it more to himself than the courier, to convince himself that there was a deeper meaning to everything that happened to him and those around him. With him trying to cling to something, anything that can soothe his trauma and justify what he is trying to do.
@@adamm2091
Yes. Politics is a fact of life where everything can be related back to it.
The computer you type on is built with the resources stolen from other countries. The shows you watch are geared precisely to cause enough outrage for views but not enough to provoke genuine discussion of deeper topics. The food you eat is completely based on what is perceived as rich, poor, white, mexican, american, canadian, etc. Even the air you breath is polluted by centuries of industry.
People, though, only take issue with "politics" when it involves them not being catered to by new media.
@@RaeIsGaee k
This was a genuinely interesting video. While being a die-hard fan of New Vegas, I'd never considered the idea that Ulysses supported the Divide based on a socialist/communist political viewpoint. I'd always assumed that he supported The Divide based on its position as a neutral civilisation between both Legion and NCR that was also geographically primed to utilise both sides' needs for trade and resources, similar to how Egypt became powerful based on controlling The Nile.
I still wish we'd gotten an answer about what to do when Tunnelers start popping up all over the Mojave, though.
Sometimes the best stories dont have an ending, sometimes we have to write it ourselves.
Considering the fuckers get scared by a simple flare gun, they'd at most would become a problem in dark caves, or during dark nights. Probably not as catastrophic unless a certain, completely unhinged, scientific genius of a Fascist Elder would get his way, which would cover the mojave in a fog so thick they wouldnt have any problems hunting at daylight
They also fear the courier by the end of the lonesome road so probably don’t wann go to his home turf either
A thousand spears from the sky. Elder Elijah represent.
The answer: use a gun. If that don't work, use more gun.
House was barely able to safe Vegas, so while yes he chose to focus on saving Vegas, I think damning him for not saving the rest of the world is a bit harsh when he knew it was never possible for him to have done.
Exactly he did what he could with his resources.
The point is, House knew what was coming and chose to save *no one.* Even if he'd shot down all the nukes, he would only protect the infrastructure, as the survivors would quickly run out of food and water, and thus be forced into the wastes regardless.
The thing Ulysses misses is that House's end game was to simply leave Earth and find a new planet altogether, which would leave most of the people on Earth to die in the end regardless.
He straight up said he said he didn't want to save the world. He only cared about vegas
@@BlownOutSpeakers He also states that vegas was the best hope for saving humanity, he knew that the war was going to happen and nothing could stop it, not even him
@@Pyromancer_ so? He could have warned other cities and built defenses like the ones protecting vegas. He had 30 BILLION dollars to his name, clearly he could have done it. He was heartlessly apathetic, and millions died because of it.
Just for fun, I'd like to say why Ulysses was wrong about all three factions:
1. House's endgame is to send people into space, to find a new planet for people to live on. That may or may not be possible, but ultimately, House didn't bother saving people because they would be left to die regardless.
2. Caesar is fully aware that the Legion is overly militaristic, which is why he wants to make Vegas his new Rome, so the Legion can gain the kind of infrastructure needed to change. In all likelihood, most of the Legion would end up like the Thunder Warriors of 40K, being sent off to die in brutal battles while the Legion transitions into something diffrent.
3. The NCR has all the strengths and weaknesses of the Old World, but Kimball (and the war hawks with him,) will probably lose regardless: Hoover Dam was supposed to be an easy win, and since that didn't happen, the War Hawks will lose power no matter what. Depending on the Courier's actions, the corruption can even be curtailed, giving the NCR a chance to become something altogether diffrent from the Old World.
True on all accounts but I’d say it’s less that Ulysses is wrong than just say that he is simply stating what he observes. As the courier we get to have in-depth conversations with the heads of all the factions about their philosophy. Ulysses did not. But I’d say that as far as the legion and NCR that them changing is kind of a pipe dream. The legion is full of too many people indoctrinated into their beliefs and Caesar is dying so I doubt he will have the time needed for such a change. And the NCR will always be open to corruption Tandy attempted to stop it but her decisions were over turned by a future ruler. So stopping it now won’t stop it later.
Mr. House is certain to repeat the problems of the old world. He is possibly the smartest man on the planet, but he's also arrogant. He was a member of the ruling class created by the neo liberalism, and doesn't realize that he was the problem. He says that if you want to see the fate of democracies look out the window. That wasn't democracy, it was capitalism, taken so far to the extreme, that the democracy of the old world was compromised. The same level of capitalism that house wants.
People forget that ulysses is very emotional in his decision making. He says a lot of things that are from his blinded perspective. He is so eat up with rage at the Courier he wants to nuke the NCR just to hurt the guy.
You are very ignorant and immature in your perspective on the different factions.
@@parkerbair7303 Mr house already was repeating the same mistakes that the old world did.
He enriched Vegas to the detriment of everyone else.
So one thing I think you're missing in your analysis of the society in the Divide is the fact that it's ambiguous for a reason. It's the same reason the Courier doesn't have much of a 'canonical' personality. The story needs you to think the Divide was worth saving, but the actual details of that society are inconsequential, so the best way to get you invested is to leave the Divide up to interpretation and let you project your own values onto it, same as the Courier.
Like yes the NCR, the Legion and House are all based on exploitation and violence, but the more thematically important trait they all share is the fact they're all holding onto the past. The Divide *could* be centered around cooperation and mutual aid, but I think trying to speculate about its canonical society is kinda missing the point. The only fixed thing about it is that it's something new instead of an imitation of something old.
Good video though, it's nice to see someone really dive deep into Ulysses.
I only realized Ulysses may have been the courier that canceled the Platinum Chip delivery on my fifth playthrough when I for once didn't skip through the dialogue.
For real though, this video deserves a crap ton more views than it has right now.
why you skip through all the dialogue??
@@omnical6135 Because I thought I already knew everything when I finished my first playthrough. I just wanted to get Beagle, reprogram Slimm, repair ED-E and be on my merry way.
@@pittraider1221 All art is interpretation, and for you to diminish and dismiss one’s interpretation as pushing an agenda is missing the point entirely-this is only one interpretation.
@@pittraider1221 so you want to dismiss facts as narrative ?
@@pittraider1221 called it. You ARE one of those "human nature is to exploit" folk. You make deus vult memes unironically don't you?
was not expecting to get progressively more teary eyed from 20:16 and start crying from 23:07 to 29:37
I feel you, its sad to wake and see everything you work to build end up in ashes and to see all your ideas made meaningless. I can only say in hope that maybe those who come after can find a way to learn from those ideas and build something stronger, something worth it.
Somebody is attention seeking
The Lonesome Road is some of my favorite moments in gaming. I was so glad I got to play this without it being spoiled. "War...war never changes. Men do, from the roads they walk, and this road has come to an end."
Superb analysis! It's why F:NV is my favorite game!
That and the original Fallout are super fun, but I personally enjoy New Vegas' characters more, and I've yet to play Fallout 2
@@pittraider1221 what are you on about? Alot of the quotes in this video come from uylsses dialogue himself, where was any marxism inserted?
@@pittraider1221 you're one of those "human nature is to exploit" kinda folk ain't you?
@WarCrimeGaming consumption and exploitation are not the same thing. You're just too capitalist to understand the difference. It is not human nature to exploit others.
@WarCrimeGaming overconsumption is not human nature. It started as a side effect of exploitation from monarchy and was brought to the commoners by advertisement. Communal societies that have not developed wealth hierarchy do not exhibit overconsumption, even when it is within their means. Not only are you wrong, but you're confidently ignorant.
Was just finishing off a replay of New Vegas for the first time in years and found your video! Really fantastic! For my own opinion, a little bit of an expansion to your conclusion on the Divide & what it might have been, I think the key point is that it's a supply road, "a bridge between east & west", it's something that allows the sharing of material resources and the creation of social relations, and this of course being an area racked by storms and being generally inhospitable. I always took it to be that the idea that people could still cooperate and connect within the most inhospitable conditions was what inspired Ulysses, this then ties into his thing with couriers building communities. How do couriers build communities? By connecting them with others, by bridging divides ;)
Also a small production note that might help in future, you show the convo between the courier & Ulysses, and while Ulysses's lines are voiced, the couriers aren't. A lot of people like to listen to video essays in the background, so it might've helped to have someone say the couriers lines in the voiceover as well for those people.
Hey, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I felt an anarchistic line of thought, more so from the Conquest of Bread, could be applied to the Divide but after finishing the video I felt I should have expanded it just a little bit more. I definitely see what you say that couriers, in Ulysses' eyes, bridge divides between communities and reconnect them. Wished I phrased it that way now.
"it was like my dead tribe in the firelight" what a damn good quote.
War never changes... So mankind has to. A Bloody masterpiece this game I tell ya!
As a kid playing fallout I thought Ulysses was just some crazy fanatic. Now as an adult I see things his way, I understand. Maybe we wasn’t wrong but he went about it the wrong way. Good ideas bad executions but maybe that’s the only way they’d listen? Perhaps it’s the only way.
That’s what I kind of like about Ulysses and is my strongest pull to him. He’s just a dude who wants what’s best but the only tool of change he has is a bunch of nukes. He’s like a artist trying to fix a painting but all he has is a hammer.
I wish we got Ulysses as a companion, I kept him alive using max speech because I couldn’t bring myself to kill him. What broke me is going back to the canyon wreckage and just seeing him sitting…staring out at the divide.
When playing Lonesome Road for the first time, I wanted to kill him all the way up till the end, but when confronting him I realised that he can be actually reasoned with and decided to do that, fighting alongside him against the Marked felt like the most epic thing I've ever done in this game, I even originally planned on bombing the Legion, because fuck them, but I couldn't do that after this and ended up defusing the warhead completely
Same here
Well for me i would bomb both but then i remembered that there were innocent people on both sides
I still nuked the legion.
"Even if it is nothing at all, know what you follow"
words to live by
For what it's worth, I think Ulysses is right in his diagnosis. Even though it's the 100 Speech option, there's no way the NCR actually changes. Its mores and values are already established; there's no changing them without something dramatically changing the very nature of their regime. That being said, the legion is no different in terms of being primed towards war, so if Ulysses really is committed to his convictions, there's no reason why he shouldn't send the nuke to Dry Wells as well.
Just send the nukes EVERYWHERE!
M.A.D.!!!
He didn't need to. The legion isn't a sustainable society. their only purpose is war, without it, they cannot survive
@@parkerbair7303 the same thing can be said of Sparta and Rome, which lasted quite a while
@@andrewbowen2837Not really. Rome did become a war-based economy during it's transition from Republic to Empire with slaves and new lands funding its continued expansion but originally it was a fairly normal society if a bit more martial then others and so it could transition back to just a society with a standing military force. Again Sparta was super-miliaristic but it didn't require expansion to live, it had a massive slave-based economy in the form of the helots to uphold it's militarised ruling class and that was sustainable even without conquest cause the Helots would continue to breed to produce new slaves. Both had a strong focus on military matters but war was not their sole purpose.
The Legion is different though. It was born out of conquest and assimilation and that has always been its purpose. When they lost at Hoover dam they didn't recover by demobilising their forces and rebuiding over time like most societes do. They recovered by conquering lots of more tribes for fresh recruits to fill the army, their entire strength comes from continual military conquest for slaves and recruits (though in a way even the recruits are slaves to their indoctrination under Caesar). The Legion has no civilian infrastructure, they have plenty of civilians in their territory in the cities but they aren't really part of the Legion and as far as we know don't even pay taxes while all the tribals outside the cities become slaves and recruits for the Legion. Basically the Legion is an army without a country and when it runs out of room and/or capability to expand it will die. It may even just die with Caesar himself, he talks a big game about the whole synthesis but who knows if he could actually acheive it because if he dies before then the Legion will devolve into civil war within a few years.
Sorry for the rant, I just really love talking about New Vegas.
So far I'm really enjoying this. I definitely feel for Ulysses. Im glad he's getting the attention he deserves. His story is genuinely heart wrenching and I think the lessons in the DLC are very important.
This is super thought provoking. Not only is F:NV one of my favorites in the series, Ulysses is my favorite character with The Burned Man following a close second.
I don't know how long this took you, but thank you for putting it out. Its great. Happy holidays mate
My top 5 favorite fallout characters are all from the Legion LOL
One thing I thought was kind of unclear about Ulysses is what he sees in America and not in the Republic. It's obviously not just that he thought it was a better place (after all, he hates the old world), there's some kind of abstract idea there with what he means by it. But I never managed to pick up on what it was.
(Sorry if my english isn't perfect, it's not my first language) He carries the Old World Flag and the name Ulysses because of Ulysses S. Grant, in his mind Grant "fought to unite two tribes under one flag.".
@@ivoazevedo1667 thorny subject, but you can trace much of current day america's problems back to the union victory (an over-centralized govt for instance). Ulysses had to be atleast somewhat aware of this when he said grant wasnt built for peace, roughly quoted. Imo, he believed in what america once was, the ideals it stood for. Folk governing themselves. Not a dictator like caesar (house to an extent as well), not out of touch politicians in the ncr, if that makes sense. Dont really know how to condense this w/o going into a wall of text lol
Given the divergent timeline between Fallout and our world, Ulysses may be pining for America before it became the dystopian nightmare it was at the time of the Resource Wars.
@@mfspectacular I can sort of see that, he was into like the abstract idea of what America claimed to be about (liberte egalite fraternite type sentiment) rather than the actual way it was.
@@mfspectacular Thank you for pointing this out. I get so sick of slavery beong the only point brought up about the war. It was a shit situation but Americans on both sides saw the folly of both sides amd tried to fight for what they thought was right. My great grandaddy was a confederate private... and first generation immigrant from swedan.
The love I show for Ulysses’ lore and story is unexplainable. The way you presented this is just perfect
It’s always insane whenever I notice another complicated topic demonstrated perfectly by new Vegas. Like with cultural appropriation. It’s not some trivial nonsense people use to police the people around them. At least it shouldn’t be. It’s the desecration of history and culture. Hearing Ulysses describe the agony he felt seeing imitations of his braids, seeking cultural meaning where there was only imitation and mockery, that’s what cultural appropriation is and it’s harm.
Or with Caesar’s fascist rule. It’s easy for anyone to say “yeah I think fascist dictatorships are bad”. But showing why someone might fight and die for such an obviously bad cause is fascinating. There are legitimate benefits to Caesar’s rule. But do those outweigh the harms? Are the alternatives even viable? And suddenly you realize how someone could get swept up in Mussolini’s Italy or something.
TLDR; Fallout new Vegas is legitimately an associate level political science degree disguised as a video game
“Mr house abandoned everyone to die” lmao. If it wasn’t for him destroying half of the nuclear warheads New Vegas would have ended up just like the divide lol. Had his calculations have been more accurate the entire patch of new Vegas would have been completely untouched by the bombs. 10:59
I like your further delve into the aspect of Ulysses and his beliefs and would like to give my own input. In one of the dialogue options you can ask Ulysses about his name and he mentions that its a reference to the divide and more importantly the courier and his ability in turning two flags into one. Ulysses is not enraged at the courier for destroying the divide but the possibility of the divide being able to assimilate cultures under their flag without using war, combining two nations/ideologies into one.
Ulysses wants the courier to feel the same pain Ulysses felt when the divide was destroyed and the hope of a nation without war being gone forever. when referencing the NCR and saying "who are you who doesn't know your history" Ulysses does not know the history behind the NCR, the founding by a small farming community or the slow growth after Tandis death. Ulysses doesn't know the past of the nation he seeks to destroy only the present and is unwilling to see the future. A man blinded by the fear of history repeating itself. his hatred is to much for him to realize the future.
The divide is not a socialist/communistic society its an ideology that war wont change but man can instead and courier 6 is the living embodiment of that.
My mistake was playing fallout new vegas like fallout 4, I had expected quests to herald not much of an important story, same with dlc, so I simply just rushed through everything, and never cared to check tapes or anything.
This made my first run far worse than it could of been, all that story I had missed due to me playing in a way that was insulting to how well written the game was.
I just thought Ulysees was a man who saw both flaws in the NCR and legion, and just wanted to do what the people of the old world did, but this helped me see his true value, so thanks I guess
Graham makes Ulysses look like a toddler. Faith in God and His plan above earthly nations and their ideals.
Ulysses believes in a certain inflexible inevitability to systems and - to some degree - the people that make them up.
Graham is into a duality of both conviction and redemption, both judgement and mercy. "Light in the darkness" - plus he cleans pistols all day when he's not shooting them. Ulysses monologues to himself and twiddles his thumbs.
Ulysses is one of very few characters that I frequently do entire game playthroughs just to speak with again, because his words carry so much weight, his conflict bears so much a detailed reflection of reality, and for once, in a science fiction game, I can solely make a difference in being better, in making him see it too, and make all the suffering worth something.
Who are you, that do not know your history?
Nothing more than marked men.
it's good to see the Algorithm recommending creators with less than 1000 subs.
New Vegas is ultimately a critique on Tribalism and the idea of In-groups over Out-Groups, which says a lot about Players who side with particular factions and defend that decision.
After Old World Blues, I choose Brotherhood.
Wasn't the whole point of the DLC's to let go and the consequences of not letting go?
@@iskwewpannekoek yeah, letting go of your ingroup.
@@renaigh Not the only thing to let go off I was referring to, but true
I’m going to be honest everyone rags on the NCR for repeating the past, but what’s the actual alternative? What’s the new system that hasn’t been tried before?
to become one with the machines.
@@mithos789 ah so the fisto ending.
Well if its an idea that isn't from the past then it must be from the future, so if it exists now it defeats the purpose dummy. But nah, personally you could argue that the game is marxist and is pushing for a Socialist utopia in the wastes. You could also argue that the only way to not repeat the past is tribalism, as the past few thousands of years of development only led to nuclear war. You could also argue that the message of New Vegas is a Marxist one, and that the followers are the best option since the game just shit-talks just about every other ideology.
@@baneofbanes we must push forward. we musnt fear the future.
No cap the most excellently crafted and superbly paced analysis on the most complex and hard to read character in fallout, outstanding work.
You make an interesting claim on Ulysses' support of the Divide based on a communitarian society. Although it's a personal assumption, and there's nothing in game lore to support or decry this view, I think the exclusion of outright stating support for such a particular practicing ideology for The Divide in the game is more important than any hypothetical ideology. I feel that, more than anything else, Ulysses seeks a society, a community that he believes in, and he's meant to parallel the player in that regard. As the player, we form the New Vegas area into our vision of the ideal community - there may be 4 different endings, but there's multiple combinations through these endings. Do you pursue a peaceful, pro-alliance NCR or a militaristic, uncompromising one? Do you make a co-operative Yes Card ending or an "every man for himself" chaotic anarchy?
The Divide represents to Ulysses this end-game "perfect community", and it's left vague so that we also can project onto it what we believe a perfect community is in our game, and so that we can compare and emphasize with Ulysses loss. After all, one of the key themes is to "know what we stand for - even if it is nothing at all" and by leaving the ideology of The Divide by and large up to the Player, we can project what we know we "stand for" onto it. For you, that's a communitarian anarchy, for me that can be a multilateral, fair trade social democracy, yet for others this may parallel the corporatism of House or an order-centric society of Caesar. That's the beauty of The Divide, and New Vegas as a whole - it can be whatever we stand for.
I think you hit the nail on the head head for what the writers were going for. This is why I've come to the conclusion that the courier taking over New Vegas with good karma is the true canon ending. By the end of the courier's journey they realize what has been lost at the divide (a chance at something greater than bear or bull or house) thanks to Ulysses and then works to recreate that which was lost. Making New Vegas into the new Divide and creating a new nation, a new symbol. If one man can destroy a whole nation than one man can raise one as well.
@@billygrantham5380 I think house is canon(or well most likely to become canon) as his diplomatic approach leaves the other factions to be usable on the future. We could see the long term effects of the Brahmin Barons in the NCR. We could also see Caesar potentially forced to make the transfer to a less militarized society early, without Vegas, which while it would disappoint him not to have his Rome, he would also not have anywhere to really fuel his tool anymore
fallout games need more characters like Ulysses
Big fan of this video until 0:04
The politics of Ulysses: shoot the messenger
Ive watched this about 4 times now and I still love it. How the hell does this guy only have like 300 subs he should have around 1000 or more it was a very talented and well thought out vid
In what world did Mr House leave everyone to die? He literally did everything he could to protect Vegas and it still wasn't enough. Not saying he's perfect but he didn't "abandon" anyone.
The guy superimposed socialist views into Ulysses, despite it being clear that he rejects, if not outright despises, the monolith of the State, seeing with how much disdain he speaks of THE BEAR AND BULL. He brushes off House because it doesn't fit into the narrative he is trying to build, so he says what he says about House. It's pretty clear.
In the world that House, having clear knowledge of the coming apocalypse, chose not to prevent it, but to save himself and his territory in order to rule on his own in the future.
@@deadprank947 He might had the knowledge, and even then it wasn't 100% accurate as the original delivery of the Platinum chip shows, he was just the CEO of Robco industries even if they were in partnership with the military what could have he done? Was he able to influence the chinese or even the members of the Pre-war enclave? No he couldn't, and as he himself says "I know I couldn't save the world nor did I care to but I could save Vegas" protect the people he could
@@marioenriquecontrerasgarci4670 House doesn’t do this out of the kindness of his heart, but rather so he can rule over Vegas after the world ends.
@T Did you play the game? He wants the chip in order to secure his position over Vegas.
Ah the "I am 14 and this is deep" character
yess omg it makes me so happy to see someone else so interested in ulysses hes by far my fav fallout character n his politics n story n everything he teaches u is amazing... its sad to see a big part of the fandom brush him off as dramatic n evil for whatever reason
A lot of "Fallout Fans" fail to understand Ulysses is a tribal, that's why all the hate towards him, the way he speaks. For me he is one of the best written characters of all times.
he's just a pretentious idiot
The ending is such an incredible edit, my eyes widened the first time I watched it.
I feel a lot of people gloss over that House and Caesar are looking forward to change, in the case of House even if he is an autocrat he wants to use his knowledge and experience in the old world to transform the post war one and eventually surpass it even if his methodology to gain influence of power is Pre-war his true interest are moving forward.
In the case of Caesar his intentions are to change the Legion after conquering the NCR to change it, to create a better society with the aspects of the two.
In the end is not known if they succed as the future of the Mojave itself is left mostly vage aside form the specific characters or small factions in the short term, but they are still searching for change
I like how they never actually describe what sort of government the divide had because if you knew you could immediately tie it to a pre-existing thing and Ulysses’ entire weird, poorly written, complicated, confused backstory and motivation completely fall apart.
My dude. This is awesome. New Vegas is my favorite game and Ulysses is my favorite character. Sooooo complex, and I’ve been trying to find a really great in depth analysis of him and his beliefs. This was a really great video essay, really well put together. Keep up the great work!
I always leave Ulysses alive he's a cool character.
I guess one of the most important things I can take from the video is that there is, in fact, such a thing as being too big when it comes to a country/nation.
If a nation grows too much in too little time, it does not necessarily mean a good thing. Entropy is a thing, and that even the most prosperous of nations will eventually face decline.
"Hmm I wonder how I can make this about communism and how evil capitalism is"
@@baphomets_clussyYou know there's a difference between a piece of fiction being political and injecting your own politics into, right?
Honestly FANTASTIC work overall.
Needs much more views. Subscribed.
I don’t know how you could make a video on Ulysses, and somehow manage to have a 10 minute aside, talking about the failures of capitalism, when the “not willing to fight for anything outside of more land they can’t control” is clearly what made Ulysses hate the NCR.
That's linked to capitalism though. Capitalist regimes will only fight in wars that benefit them economically, they rarely if ever will fight a war for humanitarian reasons. I'm not sure if the anti-capitalist critique applies to Ulysses' ideology, but your point doesn't really debunk it.
This is why i like nv
Not cose i hate bethesta
Not cose the flashy gameplay
Its cose of the story and the questions it poses
"Who are you who do not know your history?"
The following was written as a response to Ulysses for my creative writing class:
“Who are you, that do not know your history?”
Of country and of flag, of a symbol that misguides,
Forges conflict in the unchanging fires of war.
You escaped death by virtue of their ignorance,
Their allegiance to a dead empire, endless cycles of knowledge
In the name of what once was but is now no more.
I have heard your words, and I have felt their pain.
The roads you’ve walked, the ghosts that haunt them.
You watched your past come back to life,
Only for it to vex and torment you.
The braids they wove, crafted by hands
That raped. Pillaged. Burned. Mocking history.
The Divide stands strong between us,
And it has led us both to this precipice.
Our paths, like Bear and Bull, run parallel.
One leads to destruction, the other to salvation.
If you claim my path is destruction,
Then you know where yours must lead.
This is a nice take with some wonderful production value. It's quite refreshing to hear someone construct an argument and have their own political convictions blatantly shine through (Kropotkin is based
As an Indigenous woman, Lonesome Road and Honest Hearts felt like love letters to me. Even though I'm Eastern Woodland Native, totally different from our relatives in the west, but we were once all family on Turtle Island. When he talks about his braids being taken, I teared up. My great great great great grandfather was a p.o.w of another tribe and they cut his hair as a form of humiliation. He was so scarred by his treatment, the story still gets passed down. Now I'm passing it down to you all. John Gonzalez deserves more flowers for the research and work put in his story telling.
gonna put it out there but i think what ulysses saw isn't meant to be explained in a literal sense. he saw a perfect world, something which is up to interpretation, swept away by the tides of the old. he believed that the only way he could get back what was lost was by restarting again, desperate for a return of what he once loved.
Lol this dude seriously goes "we dont know anything about the divide...but I was reading an unrelated book and I like it so im just gonna use that to describe it"
I don't understand how more ppl don't like this dlc it's the best, most philosophical dlc in the game, and if you're actually paying attention, it really makes you think
I disagree about the portrayal of Mr. House in this video. House ended up predicting the apocalypse, saving New Vegas, and would have done much more, but the bombs fell before he could put all of his plans in action, so he had to postpone them. It feels like the creator of the video holds views that are probably more egalitarian and left-wing and chooses to describe House as just a selfish greedy billionaire.
Man he literally said he didn't plan to save anything but Vegas.
@chris mcd he figured it out fifteen years before the Great War. The only reason saving vegas didn't go exactly to plan is because the delivery of the platinum chip was off by a day. He had *fifteen years* to get crap done, and yet he chose to only save vegas.
@chris mcd man, him "having to put in lasers for a whole city" isn't a big deal, honestly. He didn't do that, he paid people to, which would be no issue as he was, in his own words, "a billionaire thirty times over". And doing the same process in even a single other city could have saved millions of lives, which he didn't even attempt! And don't be a stuck up ass pretending you're smarter than me, or that I somehow just don't get it. If he had the logistics for one city down, it'd need only minor alterations for other cities, and those could be prepared and built at the same time as vegas.
@chris mcdlmfao
Probably one of the greatest video essays I have ever viewed. Amazing!
What I expected: what Ulysses believes in
What I got: anarchism is based
Thankyou so much for making this and for helping me recapture some very old feelings I had for what this dlc did. Phenomenal writing
"Sorry, libertarians. Your favorite game is COMMUNIST" - Soup Emporium.
every single time lol
I don't think House could have done anything to save the world tbh. There is a lot wrong with him, but he shouldn't get blamed for not saving more people
Fuck House, he kicked out everyone in Vault 21 and filled it with concrete
I'm so fucking tired of hearing people say Mr House selfishly chose to protect Vegas and let the rest of the world burn during the great war. Just the fact that he went out of his way to save Vegas was a good selfless deed since he could have just ignored it and chosen to protect himself. He chose Vegas because it was his home and where it was raised. Even if he wanted to save the rest of the world from the bombs he couldn't, the most powerful man has only so much resources. To the people who use this argument to say Mr House doesn't care about humanity, I ask them to search up his last words before the Courier kills him
He chose to save himself and hoped to become a dictator
@@KrausHaus0 Autocrat. There is a subtle but important difference. Would you not save yourself from the Apocalypse if you could? He Also saved Vegas, an entire city
@@joaocarvalho6336 the difference between autocrat and dictator is just the word itself. pure semantics to sidestep the charges with "but akshually"
The Marked men, marked only by their prior beliefs but sharing in the same madness (ghoulification).
Huh.
Man this game is way too deep I love it
I think a major thing you missed was Ulysses was not against exploitation he was against building off the back of the old. He wanted to tear down the institutions that were created from the old and let something new come about since the old did not evolve or change. I do think Ulysses was an Anarchist, but i don't believe that in the post apocalyptic setting idk that Socialism, Roman Revanchism, Corporatocracy, or Neo liberal Democracy played into Ulysses thinking.
We do not know what the divide was and by that we can only guess what it was but I would guess it was probably a highly educated
EAST WEST BEAR BULL
EAST WEST BEAR BULL
Ulysses is one of the greatest characters and stories told in gaming. At no other point in any other Bethesda game did I have feelings and thoughts caused by the story. I started out being neutral to him, by the time I found him, I made sure we could talk shit out.
Such a strong story, and Top 3 DLC of all time for me.
Joshua Graham was not *banished* into the Grand Canyon; he was *cast.*
Ulysses can use nukes, but can he nuke one of House's colony ships?
There won’t be any colony ships.
ever notice how the bear and bull are economic terms referring to which way the market is going, and Ulysses wants to be better than that?
A few things I noticed and not trying to nitpick but Ulysses wasn’t physically present at the first battle for Hoover dam and Joshua’s punishment. In lore he returns to Caesar shortly afterwards and is told to then go lead the White Legs to destroy New Canaan. It’s after the destruction of New Canaan and Ulysses’ disillusionment of the White Legs does he officially abandon the Legion and return to the now broken Divide.
"If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows."
Hey Connor! Think I'm the 1000 visit. Terrific video, loved it :)
That you are. Glad you enjoyed the video.
Ulysses by far for me personally is the single most insufferable and aggravating boss character in any fallout game. he NEVER shuts up, your forced to combat corridor to even get to him in the 1st place and he's like 'You courier are the monster here, for doing your job, having zero clue what the package was or could do, destroying what i saw as humanity's best hope, whilst me, Ulysses, the legion servant, who helped genocide New Canaan and trained and equipped the tribe who did it for Caesar and I'm planning to launch nuclear missiles out of spite, am the righteous one'
Its like really my dude? you are in no position to be shit talking anyone else for their decisions when your arguably the single worst one to do that, i just personally find Ulysses pretentious and massively hypocritical, great video my guy, just hate this particular character.
I agree with your point of him being in no position to call out the Courier when he has done just as bad, my brother in Christ were mail men not forces of nature I don't know you! And I do somewhat agree with you on Ulysses interms of how he pushes the blame on us.
But I just wanted to make my point that despite this, he isn't some edgy Ahh drone who talks to much and wants kill everyone for the sake of it all (for the most part at least).
And I feel like not a lot of people appreciate Ulysses for leaving the leagion as this is a big thing to do that not a lot of people appreciate about him as mind you this guy grew up under a religious Cult of personality and how he was taught from a young age to forever worship, gas up and juggle Caesers balls after watching his entire world be burned by Vulpes and replaced with a new one.
And despite the heavy brain washing when he was exposed to new ideas instead of doubling down and fighting back against those ideas like most Legion drones, He went out of his way and defied was was essentially the will of his God which is expressed in his Holotapes on how he found it hard to even conceive the notion of going against the Legion despite hating them on account of that being the only life he had ever known.
And despit all that went out to learn new perspectives and actively find alternatives better than the Legion and fight against them it's why the Devide matters to him so much despite never living a day there aside just passing through.
And when you put it from that persepective you genuinely begin to sympathise with him as his essentially a dark reflection of Joshua Graham if he never got a chance at redemption because Ulysses is exetly what Joshua would have become if Zion got nuked before he even got a chance to change his life and truly leave his scuffed past behind and be better. A massage on how broken people need a second chance and a reason to keep going, Joshua had the bible and Zion and Ulysses had the memory of his tribe and the Devide.
But what happens if you take that second chance away from them?
And Joshua graham when we measure both there Crimes has done way, way worse and if anything he created Ulysses with him likely being the first person Ulysses reported back to after the discovery of Hoover Dam. With him acknowledgeding Ulysses was the one who sent the white legs when he first meets the Courier when he sais *"Not the Courier I was expecting but I suppose he wouldn't have come with a Caravan"* .
And yet Joshua doesn't actively hold it against him or blames him for helping the white legs as he ackwndeges he was just following Caesers Will just like him as Courtesy of both of them being former legion Soldiers and if it wasn't Ulysses Caeser would have just sent a nother one of his goons like Vulpes to do the job.
Again I agree with you on Ulysses being a bad person but I just wanted to point out his capacity to change by hearing out the Courier and his quest for redemption and genuine guilt for helping the Legion until that motivation to be better than those slavers it was all snuffed out. And how he could have been a better person if anybody actually gave him a chance to do just that.
And honestly when I met Ulysses for the first time I killed him out of annoyance as this man blamed me for something I had nothing to do with and u was skipping through his dialogue so fast all I wanted to do was take him out and steal Old glory and his old world flag duster. But on my Second playthrough after bothering to listen to his holo tapes I Genuinely began to ball my eyes out as it's almost like the universe actively went out of its way to screw him over for the crime of just existing with his speech to the think tank solidifying him as one of my favorite fallout goats to have ever existed.
And I still killed him regardless and barried him just so I could put him out of his misery as my guy lived a hard life and him punishing him self by sniping marked men on a ledge till he eventually ran out of bullets was a wake up call telling me I needed to give him peace.
He might have deserved having his penance and getting torn apart by the Devide on account he wanted to make his problems every onece problem and cause a second nuclear Haulocost. But he had been punished enough and deserved his rest, something Joshua would have done if he saw Ulysses now and what he would have become if he was never given a second chance him self.
Улисс обучил белоногих, дал им оружие и отправил уничтожить новый ханаан. Раговаривая с ним, я всегда вспоминаю рассказ Дэниела о том, какой геноцид устроили белоногие в новом ханаане. Я заставил Улисса отказаться от своей идеи, отправил ракеты на некогда родное племя Улисса, а самого его сбросил в каньон, перед которым он сидит.
To be fair with the help of vulpes Joshua did help orginize the genocide of Ulysses tribe and 82 others, with most of them being thrown at baulder city before it blew up so...
If anything Joshua created Ulysses...
Ulysses ultimately sought better. Seeing the divide showed him what better looks like.
So Ulysses’s whole hang up is that the Courier caused something catastrophic without realizing it, and the courier needs to pay for it yeah? Meanwhile, during his time in Big Mountain, Ulysses “woke up” the Think Tank by asking questions he never should have asked, and could have caused them to destroy a great deal of the wasteland had not the Courier stepped in to pacify them...
He didn't know, he never met Mobius
This is why I love this game. I care about these characters and they gave me perspective as well. I went into it thinking this whole game would be dumb fun but boy was I wrong. Each DLC unfolded more and more about the world and it's impact on the current times. Then the game throws in characters like Ulysses and Joshua Gram, who have such power things to say. I couldn't skip a line, I was too engaged, I simply wanted to speak more to them. Their perspectives and arcs give you a moral dilemma when finishing the game. Once you go back to New Vegas after exploring these areas the whole place changes each time. You see the entire world in a new light.
Caesar as 'kai-sar' is indeed the correct pronunciation.
we say "sea-tzar" on purpose 🤭
@@zeynaviegas God I hate thwt
@@bruhtonbruhkkinson6848 keep crying skirt boy
@@gluemonkeyfan.714 am I meant to cry at a pun?
My dad pronounces it something in the lines of 'kay-eye-sar'
Ppl call him a yapper or make fun of the bear bull stuff, but hes still well written, the real reason why ppl hate him is because he accuses you of wiping out a whole nation, heavily blames you for everything happening to him. Of course gamers ate gonna take it to heart lol
Ulysses Politics:
Bear and the bull