Western Rite Orthodoxy Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2019
- Saint Patrick Orthodox Church is an Antiochian Western Rite Parish, located in Bealeton, VA. For more information please visit our website www.stpatrickorthodox.org. For more information on the Western Rite, you can visit www.orthodoxwest.com.
St. Patrick Orthodox Church Choir Debut CD:
Christ Be With Me (Music from the Orthodox West): www.stpatrickorthodox.org/shop
#orthodox
#orthodoxchant
#orthodoxmonastery
#orthodoxchristian
"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must be Eastern. The west was fully Orthodox for a thousand years, and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
St. John of San Francisco
Yes, but true ORTHODOX. These are crypto anglicans. They are not Western Orthodox.
@@alexandermarkus9587 you should re-read St John's quote, and ask for his prayers.
❤
It was catholic
@@luciobrazil007 I wanted to be catholic too, that is why I'm Orthodox
Please pray that western orthodoxy would come to Livonia NY, my people are in desperate need of the church.
lots of good Russian Orthodox churches in New York
@@DoIoannToKnow Indeed there are, since that post I have been attending for about 2 years now the ROCOR parish in the nearest city. I was baptized in late August just last year. Praise be to God.
@@jephthaholt Russian is always going to be the most authentically orthodox, they are the preservers of the true church (I apologize to my Greek friends)
@@DoIoannToKnow The Russian Church is only one of many and has its own share of issues. Don't uplift one group within Orthodoxy over the others.
@@ethanmcclain7570 in the US I would say its blatantly obvious that the Russian church is first in line in preserving orthodoxy
Please pray that the Western Rite be presented in the State of North Carolina, for there is none. I pray that I and my community come to know of this rich and ancient tradition!
Where in NC?
@@OrthodoxReview Greenville
@@patrick9876 right on. I'm in Wilmington. St. Pat's is around 4 hours from you.
@@OrthodoxReview nice. Might make a visit one of these days to St. Pat’s see what it’s like.
@@OrthodoxReview
Do you remember a Romanian Priest visiting your parish from Myrtle Beach?
Glory to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; glory to our One Undivided Orthodox Church - East and West, South and Norht, Whole of Ecumene!
Salute from Serbia!
Walling-off from Heretic Ecumenists and Schismatic Old Calendarists.
the 'orthodox' broke away from us and not the other way around. Where the Bishop of Rome is there is the One True Church (Matthew 16:18). Renounce your heresies against the True Faith and acknowledge Papal Supremacy and Infallibility and recognize the Filioque into your creed which is biblical (Revelation 22:1).
@@taylorrowe2002 cope and seethe
@@taylorrowe2002 C'est plutôt l'inverse qui est vrai. Renoncez à cette hérésie espagnole du filioque, à l'infaillibilité pontificale et autres conneries de ce genre.
I would love to see a WR parish, especially one that had the glory of a European Cathedral but without the Roman innovations or NO liturgical changes. It would be like stepping into a European Cathedral in the 12th century.
The WR church near me uses an organ. I would have thought they would only sing a capella.
@@colerobbins124Constantinople gifted the first air organ to Rome. Strange hill to die on.
@@ALLHEART_no instruments are used in Orthodox churches according to Orthodox tradition
@@JoeMode213 it wasn't a water one and it wasn't for not church use, at the Carolingian palace?
Have you tried doing to a Latin mass ?
I was received into the Russian Orthodox Church mainly because of the liturgy, which to me is like the kingdom of Heaven come to earth. I am living in Austria und my heart aches when I visit one of the old beautiful Catholic churches, which still breath the holiness of their past, but are abused by false teachings, especially after the 2. Vatican Council. Yes, may God restore the old glory to the old buildings and traditions. Love from Austria
I find it interesting that the Vatican (established in the 1800s) is neither in the city, nor the country of Rome.
@davidmargaretebogenrief9185
What do you think of Adolf Nikolaus von Buccow?
the 'orthodox' broke away from us and not the other way around. Where the Bishop of Rome is there is the One True Church (Matthew 16:18). Renounce your heresies against the True Faith and acknowledge Papal Supremacy and Infallibility and recognize the Filioque into your creed which is biblical (Revelation 22:1).
@@taylorrowe2002 Absolutely incorrect. Neither quotations from the Holy Scriptures prove your point. If the keys were truly given only to Peter, then the seat of Antioch is just as Holy as is the seat of Rome. The eastern bishops never, EVER recognized the Bishop of Rome's self proclaimed supremacy (which itself was an innovation), and only gave the title of First Among Equals due to the seat of Rome being doubly apostolic from the martyrdom of Sts. Peter & Paul. Meanwhile, the Roman church sees themselves as Supreme due to being the "Seat of Peter." The Vatican approved Chieti and Alexandria documents (approved under Pope Francis) refute their own positions thoroughly, and concede that the original Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church of the First Millennium was synodal, as the Orthodox Catholic Church still functions as to this day.
@@thekinglink906 NEVER SAID THE OTHER APOSTLES DON'T HAVE THE KEYS AND THEIR SUCCESSORS ONLY THAT PETER HAS AUTHORITY OVER THE KEYS AND WHO HAS THEM OR NOT.
I’m OCA, love the hymns and tones of the East, love the Slavic churches’ aesthetics. It would still be really cool to have a Gallican Rite parish around for something that connects more directly to *my* heritage though
The OCA liturgy is gorgeous! I can understand wanting to connect to your heritage, too.
I came into the faith through the Eastern Rite which I love and feel most at home in but I also love the WR so much. I'd love to see what impact it will have on our mission in the States and Canada. Also you guys should be on AFR!
This is not "Western rite" thats nonsense. They are crypto catholics
Greetings to Fr. Patrick from Reader Stefan and Subdeacon Evan
One thing I missed about Roman catholicism was the aesthics and rites. Now I ain't gotta be sad anymore 😂
I'm glad the Western Rite is here. Where I live there is only a WR parish and a Bulgarian parish. I grabbed "Children of the promise", can't wait to read it and see if I should take conversion. :)
Walling-off from Heretic Ecumenists and Schismatic Old Calendarists.
This is an excellent video that shows a restoration of Western Rite Orthodoxy respectful of the art and architecture and patrimony of the West.
No, it does not. You never have bern to Italy, Sicily, etc...
@@alexandermarkus9587 for your information I spent a year in Italy and visited Sicily especially a little town called Ventimiglia de Sicilia where my family is from. So your ignorance is showing dear Alexander.
@@archbishopanthonybondi5675 Well, this what is presented has nothing to do with ancient Western Orthodoxy
Bondi is a goof and a heretic. He’s in schism from the Orthodox Church. Don’t waste your time with this larper.
Would love to see an update on this today, a lot has changed in 4 years
Beautiful!
Here in Saint Louis Missouri, there is a very large Latin Mass community of which are apart of the Roman church. I believe that many people in the Latin Mass community see that the western church is in great error, and that's more clear now than ever. There is a lot of people who stick with the western church because of the Latin Mass, but the more effort there is from the Orthodox Church to popularize the Western Rite in the west, the more those people will come over to Orthodoxy as they will have no reason to stay with the western church.
Holden Vinnedge do you attend St Basil’s ROCOR or St. Genevieve of Paris WR?
Hi Holden, I'm in STL area, Latin Mass RC too hoping to join the Western Rite parish St. Genevieve, come join us!!
@@amg2598 did you ever check it out?
Absolutely wonderful.
Those forms and expressions are important.
So many of us need you where we live.
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
Loved this! ❤️💙
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
the "Orthodox" fell into schism in 1054. Let no man deceive you. The keys of St Peter are in Rome. Our Lord Jesus Christ is not a liar in Matthew 16:18-20. The East just got mad cuz the Pope said something they didn't like so fell into schism. This is the Truth of the matter.
the Filioque and the Papacy are both True, Biblical, and align clearly with the ecumenical councils of the first milenium of Christianity.
I love this video, but allow me to speak in defense of the Byzantine rite. The Byzantine rite has successfully become home to Native Alaskan converts, Japanese converts, Hispanic converts, etc., none of which had to give up their heritage to become Russians or Greeks. My Byzantine parish even has several Eritrean members--like Western European descended converts, their roots lie in another tradition (the Tewahedo tradition), yet they enthusiastically embrace our Byzantine worship, and are among our most devout members. There are without a doubt EO parishes that have a less than welcoming feel, because of sinful people who place pedigree above Jesus Christ.
Having said all that, I do love the idea of the Western Rite. The treasure of the Orthodox West was lost to us for centuries, and is now restored, and praise God for that! Time will tell how God will utilize this treasure in reaching our increasingly secular society, which has dismissed Christianity altogether, and in its contempt makes no distinction between Eastern, Western, or Oriental.
Good thing Catholics don’t have to be Slavic or Greek in order to be Catholic unlike Eastern Schismatics of the Eastern Heterodox Church.
@@sethsaviero9137 You don't have to be Slavic or Greek to be Orthodox either. I'm an African-American in the Orthodox Church. Y'all just comment anything, lol.
And then you would get mad if I accused Catholicism of only allowing Hispanic people or Western Europeans to be Catholic.
@@thekingofsomewhere Get it! 😂 💪
@@sethsaviero9137 The Catholic church acknowledges the sacraments, traditions, and authenticity of the Eastern Orthodox. How can it not. It was all one church. As a Catholic, I strongly support the Orthodox churches in their traditions and authenticity. They do lack a visible head on earth and have disputes among themselves, but that does not take away their Apostolic succession, nor does it make them invalid.
@Jordan Carpenter Each church's traditions developed based on the cultural aspect of its regions. This makes every church an ethnonational church and thus can be understood and interpreted correctly only with a sound knowledge of each culture. Every church has experienced a change in dogma over time. The Orthodox church dogma on contraception, divorce, Mary's perpetual virginity, and Mary's sinlessness has changed over the years. But this does not, in any way, take away the sacramental and apostolic validity of any church.
The prayer of Christ is that all of God’s children might be one. West and East together. As a Roman Catholic my prayer is that the Orthodox Churches and the Roman Catholic Church join as one when the time is right.
I pray that the Western Rite would be included in New Jersey.
My first orthodox church experience was the Western Rite, actually 2:18 is the church I went to, and will continue to go to, to learn more about orthodoxy and possible convert from protestantism.
God bless you!!!❤
@@leiyeuktsui8449 I was made a catechumen last week! praise God!
Great video.
I wish we had western rite parish in my country
At 6:04, where can I find the names of the clergy present in this photo?
It would be amazing to see western rite Orthodoxy occupy some of the very ancient western churches throughout the world. Like St Vitus' Cathedral in Czech, Prague. I don't think it'll happen atleast not in my life time but wow that would be amazing!
I wish we could bring the Western Orthodox Christianity back and spread it as an equal part of One Holy Universal (Catholic) Church. I’m an Orthodox Christian from Ukraine, and I would like to join the Western rite Orthodoxy. I respect the Eastern rite (sure, there are some differences between the Greek and Slavic Eastern Orthodox rites because of historical development), but the Western expression is much more enjoyable (if I might say this way). I would like to create Western Orthodox Church as a part of the global Orthodox Christianity, and I would like to have Western rite churches in my city and in my country. I hope this day will come soon!
Why would Ukraine need the Western rite? Ukraine is a historically Russian Orthodox territory, Russia basically began in Kiev, so it makes little sense to bring the Western rite over to Ukraine. I can perfectly understand Western Europeans and Americans but in Ukraine? Come on. This ridiculous Russophobia in Ukraine has to stop. Russia, Ukraine and Belarus all come from the Kievan Rus.
@@AlexiusY21 , Western Rite in the Orthodox Church is not a rusophobia. I visit the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church which is in spiritual unity with Moscow Patriarchate. But I would like to visit the Western Rite service, because I like the Western expression of Orthodox Christianity. Western Rite is not only for Western people. The Byzantine Rite is not only for Greeks or Slavs. You have the right to choose. So I want Western Rite Orthodox parishes in Ukraine.
@@danielgorbachov5592 Yes. The term Western Rite, while maybe the best term, is actually pretty confusing because the Latin Rite went all over the world with the Roman empire, not just the "West." My Croatian ancestors adopted the Latin Rite in the 600s!! Plus- there've been many Roman Catholics in Ukraine, not the Eastern Rite but also Latin Rite, you can "reclaim" that expression for them. Thank you so much for appreciating the beauty of the Western Rite in itself and not just as a tool for evangelization, as important is that is, it's really secondary for why it exists, which is to enrich the Church with another expression. The Divine mysteries are inutterable, and each soul's way of relating to God is so unique, but we can come a wee bit closer with two liturgical expressions. As a side note, I think it's a disservice that we're known as the Eastern Orthodox Church. We're not just Eastern. Right? I hope, if this WR spreads we can once again more easily identify ourselves as...Orthodox Catholics.
Convert to a Western religion then because this is not Orthodoxy.
I’m so blessed that here in California there are 3 western right parishes and 2 of them are near me❤️
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
how about actually submit to the Keys of the Apostle Peter defined clearly in Ephesus and by many of the saints you venerate lol.
you'll literally venerate Saints that affirm the Papacy!
@@taylorrowe2002 You feeling okay? Blowing up my comments. Go read the new Alexandria document put out by the Vatican it contradicts itself with its own history and pope Francis has even admitted that the original church was autocephalous. I implore you to research the Orthodox Church and watch some true debates about the topic as history is pretty clear and shows that the Catholic Church walked away from the path. And if the keys are truly important we rest have Antioch with Peter and Paul. The only reason why Rome was give the status it had over Antioch was because Peter and Paul both died in Rome. There are also 14 councils that the Vatican accepts but go directly against their own teachings of how councils were held.
Hallo my friends , where can l find this beautiful music ??
St Patrick church has several albums available
This is the way.👍
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
Who composed that version of Ubi Caritas? I've never heard anyone else use it.
Ola Gjielo, a contemporary composer from Norway. I'd highly recommend checking out more of his stuff!
@@MrDinofelis Thank you!
I would like to learn the Western rite and try to practice it in some of the churches in Ukraine
One of the pictures u showed is 5 miles away from my house
Turns out this Church is relatively near me I should check it out
@Liam Converse Did you check it out?
@@curiousing yeah
@@liamconverse8950 What'd you think?
@@curiousing It was a nice service and the people were very nice an welcoming
I live in Adelaide South Australia searching...◽️🔭
What are the differences between the Eastern and Western Orthodox Churches?
And if they differ, what makes them original?
Do all those monks on Mount Athos still get it wrong after 1300 or more years?
Are they not the ones who preserve the tradition of our Church?
Please explain this to me, because you make me perplexed
Good question(s)! Saint Patrick's is under the Antiochian Patriarchate, if you're interested in more information, check out www.orthodoxwest.com!
Greetings St. Patrick Orthodox Church! I’m an 18 year old Roman Catholic from Vietnam who is interested in converting to Orthodox Christianity and currently am in the inquiring stage. Before even knowing anything about the True Faith (aka Orthodox), I often read and cherished the stories of the 117 martyrs of my homeland who sacrificed their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. I admired them, I admire them so much that I want to imitate every aspect of their life, including the vestments of the Vietnamese hieromartyrs (Western Rite vestments since they were all Roman Catholics). Upon wanting to become an Orthodox Christian and even a priest in the future, I’m quite sad to see that I won’t be able to wear the Western vestments and celebrate Western Rite masses under the light of the Orthodox Faith since I will lose touch with the memories of my brave martyr ancestors who gave up their lives for Christ. Now that I see Western Rite is still existing and flourishing in the Orthodox tradition, I’m extremely thrilled and relieved at finally being able to feel at home while following the True Faith! Thank you for letting me know this information.
May God bless you,
John Wilfred Matthias
We hope you can visit sometime, John!
How are your liturgical books? Similar to Roman Catholic liturgical books?
Check out the official webpage, theorthodoxwest.com!
Glory to God for the Western Rite! I hope someone can answer an innocent question I have. I watched a Western Rite Liturgy on TH-cam and was a bit surprised to see that an innovation such as a white circular disk was being used instead of Leavened Bread. Is there a reason for this difference that originated with the Latins? I am asking as a fellow Orthodox Christian who desires to one day participate in a Western Rite Liturgy. I have much love for our Western Saints, such as Saint Patrick.
But, Orthodoxy, throughout history, has been an imitator of Christ, for those who speak and read Greek will understand my question based on the very words of Christ in Koine Greek during the First Supper: "λαβὼν ὁ Ἰησοῦς [ ΆΡΤΟΝ ] καὶ εὐλογήσας ἔκλασεν καὶ δοὺς τοῖς μαθηταῖς εἶπεν· λάβετε φάγετε· τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ σῶμά μου" ΕΥΑΓΓΕΛΙΟΝ ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΘΘΑΙΟΝ 26/Matt 26:26
In Christ Gregori
About a year ago, i began to question my protestant upbringing. I started to consider catholicism, but joked that, while i was not protestant enough to sit through the rock concerts we call church service, i was too protestant for a pope. Someone said, what about orthodoxy? And ill have to be honest, i didn't know a thing about orthodoxy. They don't exactly talk about the orthodox church in sunday school. So i started to look into it. And i was amazed by what i saw. However, one thing did feel odd to me. And that was how eastern it was. Not that i find anything wrong with that. But it was completely alien to me. There is a small orthodox church somewhat close by, and i intend to go, but it is eastern. Admittedly i wish it were western, but thats ok 😊. I will say that there are tons of people like me who would jump at the opportunity join a western rite orthodox church now that so many protestant churches have watered down their message and strive to be accepted by the world. Ill be praying for your success.
I am technically Lutheran right now, but I have been visiting an Orthodox church in my area. It is eastern like most orthodox churches, and it is very beautiful, but the photos in this video that look western and familiar just look like home to me. I am becoming increasingly convinced of the claims of orthodoxy, but it is very hard to move from traditional western expressions of liturgy I am used to in Lutheranism to eastern liturgy. It is so foreign to me. I do wish there were more western Orthodox churches.
I hear you! Feel free to check out our music on Spotify as well as another way to connect!
High church (gottesdienst) confessional Lutherans would feel much at home in western rite Orthodoxy. I wish there were more western rite Orthodox parishes.
i would love to study and be in a western orthodox church. very interesting.
how is that different from the latin rite?
I think it has both a Latin and an Anglican rite.
4:58 Fr John!
SANCTISSIMA DEI GENITRIX SALVA NOS!
+++
MOST HOLY THEOTOKOS SAVE US!
He is in communion with the Bishop of Rome
Nope
@@quakeroats5686 ok
Differences between Eastern vs. Western rite?
liturgy and aesthetics
So is the Western rite similar to a roman latin mass but in English essentially?
Yep! The mass is the liturgy of Saint Gregory in the vernacular.
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
@@StPatrickOrthodoxChurch there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
@@StPatrickOrthodoxChurch you'll are the ones in schism. Submit to the Keys of the Apostle St Peter.
Why would statuettes be used? What is the reason for wiping the statue during veneration if not for fear of disease? Do blessed things transmit disease now?
I don't think the tradition started from fear of diseases. That thinking may be a conflation of recent times with a very old tradition.
Per statuettes, my understanding is that 3-D icons have been around as long as 2-D icons and so both are acceptable and simply a cultural difference. At Saint Patricks we happily use both in their proper place.
Thanks for watching!
Wish the episcopal church would take notes.
Both are Orthodox we are one
Recommend me please book for reading on english langreage from creations the holy fathers. Tell me please name is it a book and author, in advace thanks! Available electronic version of course.
Are the chants sung in Latin?
Depends on the chant and parish
Shouldn’t it this rite just refer to Latin Catholics? WRO is odd, but one positive thing is that if it is accepted by Easterners, it makes it hard for them to offer weak criticisms of anything “western” (pipe organs, unleavened bread, Latin, etc etc) and instead leaves only legitimate issues on the playing field.
There's been a lot of discussion about this!
What makes a church "Eastern"?
Eastern Rite churches use a different liturgy, still very beautiful, and stick to Byzantine traditions. I'm not Byzantine and non of my Irish, German, or Welsh ancestors were. So I'm a WR.
'Eastern Orthodox' is the Orthodox equivalent of 'Roman Catholic.' Because 'Rome' is the only See of the apostolic Church that is in the West. The rest are in the East.
As a Orthodox from SA we had a huge problem in our city where the Greek language was constantly forced on us even though we understood not it ! Eventually they fired the Priest because he insisted on using local language and we with the Grace of Jesus Christ the Lord bult a small community in a house church as the priest resisted the bishop trying to move him , and eventually bought a old Calvanist church and trans formed it ( She )is now with the Grace of God a Jewel 💎 and the most beautiful little church in the world for me donations came from every where even non Orthodox donated and we asked for nothing and got everything Our Lord is with us and i pray with all of you in the USA my you go from strength to strength and the Panagia be with you all ☦️☦️☦️
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
@@taylorrowe2002 your popes from the Schism are heretics and any one of you that believes that they are infallible are heretics with them Anathema to the Papists Anathema to the false Roman Church Anathema
@@taylorrowe2002 believe what you want the Ecumenical Councils condemn you !!
Breathing with both lungs
Bring it to Lewiston, ID. Restart the preschismatic Latin liturgy, but in the western language of the land.
Oh just be Catholic then.
Nice video. But you can't use the term "reactionary" in a disparaging way, while also speaking of restoration. For Reactionaries seek to restore something that is lost, not merely opposing something.
'Reactionaries' here in context refers to 'reacting to a novelty-and being defined by it.' Unfortunately, the pope-saints of 'Orthodoxy' always claimed supremacy, as the Catholic claim goes. St. Irenaeus, apostolic father, said all churches must agree with the church in Rome in order to be considered part of the Church. He also complained of Pope St. Victor's declaration that the date of Easter is changed from a lunar calculation to a fixed date-but never denied his authority to change such. The novelty is suddenly denying this prerogative of St. Peter's successor, prince and corphaeus of the apostles (St. John Chrysostom). God bless.
@@AveChristusRex This is untrue. Your simply reciting pop arguments used by Latin apologists which aren't accurate portrayals of the Fathers they cite and are historically illiterate. For one, the word St. Irenaeus used that Latins attempt to translate as "agree with" is not the standard word for that concept in Latin, and rarely has that meaning. It is an obscure, polyvalent word that can have numerous meanings. And, really, that's all Latin apologists have to rely on - arguments from obscure data. The word can, for instance, mean "to come to", indicating that the churches in the regions where St. Irenaeus was and was writing to should go to Rome to have councils and resolve disputes. That's just one possible meaning of the word used, because, again, it is an obscure Latin word. The other examples you gave have similar problems and reveal ignorance of the actual history apart from having heard bits and pieces of it in a polemical context.
@@ALLHEART_ Brother, I don't hate myself enough to simply recite pop arguments. I dabble in Latin as well as Biblical Greek and Hebrew, and I know enough to know when I don't know. "Ad hanc enim ecclesiam, propter potentiorem [potioriem] principalitatem, necesse est omnem convenire ecclesiam-hoc est eos qui sunt undique fideles-in qua semper ab his qui sunt undique conservata est ea quae est ab apostolis traditio" unless I'm seriously mistaken, translates very neutrally and simply to, "For with this church it is necessary, on account of its greater principality, that all the churches must agree (that is, the faithful everywhere), in which the tradition of the appostles is kept by those everywhere."
Convenire comes from together and come. To come together. That is to agree. Also, literally to come together. But not always. Advocating for the interpretation, 'all the churches must meet at Rome at least once' or something is silly. It's not mecca.
Thia is quite intriguing since the constantinople itself was the one who tried to force uniformity of rite and expression in the universal church. U might remembered how Photius threw the hosts from the tabernacle since they were unleavened bread.
Condemning certain practices in a church is not the same as condemning a whole rite. There are trad Catholics that condemn the Novus Ordo parishes; does that mean they condemn the Roman church as a whole? Or the Roman rite?
@@thekingofsomewhere photius was patriarch so it is quite official which is the opposite of trad catholics. But thats not what I mean. What i mean is how constantinople back then hated "difference" and actually continued in the medieval century. Patriarch Jerusalem told Patriarch Nikon to unify Russian liturgy to the other orthodox churches which led to Russian Schism. Now, when orthodox reaches western land, they finally embrace that "catholicism", that diversities which is again expressed boldly in the video. See what i mean?
I look forward to one day coming to Mexico. I want to be Western Orthodox But here this treasure does not exist. I hope you can come to Monterrey one day. I want to plant a church house one "Domus Ecclesia" i hope that reading my comentary, i love in grace of god.
Hmmm... 🤔
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
the "Orthodox" are the schismatics since 1054.
I am only concerned about the statues, they are not orthodox
Why not?
Says Who ?
so a 2d icon is okay and a 3d one isnt?
I also dont feel good about them
The West is saved.
no you'll are the ones in schism buddy. The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
I thought this was a joke, I love it
you'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
Who is the patriarch of the West?
And are you communion with the East?
Patriarch John X of the Antioachan Patriarchate. See the Orthodox West.com for more details.
I’m interested in orthodoxy because of the relative uniformity of the liturgy and it’s longevity. This does nothing but turn me off the the Western rite.
Sorry to hear that! Check out theorthodoxwest.com for more information!
@@StPatrickOrthodoxChurchOrthodoxy in the west did exist. Over 1,000 years ago. Christ promised the gates of Hell will not prevail against His church, then why was the west consumed and most assuredly not preserved by Christ? When has the Church in all of her history "resurrected" a dead rite? The papist priest Joseph Overbeck who joined the Orthodox Church, but didn't like Eastern liturgics or the very church he joined. The fabrication of the western rite goes against the very praxis of the Church. I've seen the website, blasphemous against Orthodoxy. The website states how Eastern Orthodoxy is too "uncomfortable" for converts and the erroneous claim that western converts can't find a "congenial" home with "the east" or "Eastern patristic thought." I am a Orthodox catechumen in the west. I felt at home in the EASTERN Orthodox church. One can live in denial if that is easier (or more comfortable), but the Western Rite is nothing but the result of prelest. It has harmed the mission efforts of the Church and caused GREAT confusion, leading some to despair away from Eastern Orthodoxy, the true faith. I'm questioning whether I should even join the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America. End this madness! Its been 150 years too late!
@Bamifun, ☦️BASED.☦️
@@Death2CompromiseAccusing them (two jurisdictions of the Orthodox Church) of prelest whilst placing yourself as someone that knows better than hierarchs and contemporary saints such as St. John Maximovitch WHILST being a catechumen!
@@Death2Compromise My problem with your stated criticism is that they're essentially saying nothing. Your now deleted comment said that the Western rite has caused great error and confusion to the church, but you fail to provide any evidence of how such confusion and error manifests in reality. How does having a western rite, with a pre-schism liturgy, such as the tridentine mass, cause confusion? Secondly, you argue that a 'dead' rite never has been revived. Well, maybe you're right on that one, but that doesn't mean that eastern liturgical rites haven't been changed, such as the Divine liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. Conversely, 'dead' rites can be used again if certain schismatic parts are removed by the overlooking of ROCOR and Antiochian hierarchs.
Christianity isn't exclusively byzantine. Orthodoxy means right belief. We're united by creed, by theological unity, and not solely liturgical unity. If so, we would be in communion with eastern Romans that use the Divine liturgy.
It is sad that the Orthodox Church, like Protestants, focus on how different they are from the Catholic Church. Like Protestants Orthodox practice appears to look away from the teaching of Jesus when asked which was the greatest commandment. Why do we not focus on beliefs we hold in common and love each other?
Who says we don't?
We would do well to keep our Gregorian calendar as it was never intended for division, only for a more accurate rendering of date measuring. For non-Christians would be logically confused in their evaluation of us, noting that we can not even agree upon our significant dates, how can we, then, have catholicity?
there are more Eastern Catholics that quote on quote Western Orthodox. All though I do define myself as being in the True Orthodox Faith since I believe you'll are the ones on the wrong side of the schism and we define ourselves as Catholic and Orthodox. You'll are the ones in schism . The early Church Councils like Ephesus clearly define the Papacy. You'll just got mad because the Pope said the Filioque is True.
how about listen to the council of Ephesus when it clearly defines the Chair of Peter which is in Rome or better yet the words of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in Matthew 16:18-20. What about all the saints you'll venerate too who clearly believed in the papacy lol.
Have all these priests been ordained by the Antioch Archdiocese and have every parishioner including clergy has been proper baptized in the Orthodox faith?
Yes.
I am Greek Orthodox and as far I know antiochian Orthodox are just a uniate church under the pope. I watched the video and it leaves no doubt that this is true.
I was wrong, there are Antiochian Orthodox Christians, however Rome has perverted much of the church of Antioch. This is not Orthodox Church in this video. And anyone who is a practicing orthodox should be able to see this. Just from a casual observation, the alters are open which is not orthodox, their vestments were not Orthodox and I noticed the priest doing his cross as Catholic do.
Christo S The orthodox churches featured in this video are indeed Orthodox. I am currently attending one of them that is featured in this video. Again, it is just as orthodox as a Greek Orthodox Church. The differences are cultural and aesthetic; not doctrine/lack of true orthodoxy.
@@hunterricks9003 I looked up the website for this church and it is 100% catholic and ander the pope. If you think this is orthodox, you are very confused. We do not have mass, we do not have lauds, we do not have devotions, we do not have rosaries, we do not have sacred heart, and we do not have wafers. And the vestments are also catholic. I looked up the website. These things were all on it. None of these things are orthodox. Like I said, if you think this is orthodox, you are very confused. This bears no resemblance to the greek orthodox church or any other orthodox church that I have every been to. This is a very obvious uniate church.
Seems to be that WO is a good idea, but it still seems that much of it is "Byzantinized". I don't know, I tried for years to be Orthodox, but never fit in. Seems to be very "clique-ish". I guess that is true for most every group to a certain extinct. Orthodoxy seems to be something that isn't easy to belong to (unless it's part of your culture, family,etc). That tends to be my experience and many others experience also. Lord have mercy.
I know that this is a month late, but whatever. Do you attend a majority immigrant (or some predominant ethnic community) parish?
@@sethl7078 Actually, no.
I've been to "clique-ish" Anglican, Roman Catholic, and Evangelical churches.
@@jajohnson7809
Yeah, it's everywhere. Unfortunately.
Not sure how it's been "Byzantinized"
Literally reinventing the wheel instead of just going to the Latin mass and helping the Catholic Church restore itself to tradition
I bet there is a lot of people that wish it was that simple! Thanks for watching!
@@StPatrickOrthodoxChurch simple not easy. Believe me I came to this out of humility. Only expressing my own error that I was forced to admit. God bless you for maintaining aspects of the western tradition in the most trying of times. Satan wants to plant the flag in Temple of the church. The error in the church is actually proof of its validity. The war is certainly in its final stages.
”On him [Peter] He builds the Church, and to him He gives the command to feed the sheep; and although He assigned a like power to all the Apostles, yet he founded a single Chair, and *He established by His own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity.* Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was; *but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one Chair.* So too, all are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the Apostles in single-minded accord. *If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?"* (Cyprian, The Unity of the Catholic Church 4, AD 251)
Cyprian revised that treatise after his disagreement with Pope St. Stephen. You have quoted the first version. His updated version reads thus:
"The Lord speaks to Peter, saying, I say unto you, that you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. And again to the same He says, after His resurrection, Feed my sheep. And although to all the apostles, after His resurrection, He gives an equal power, and says, As the Father has sent me, even so send I you: Receive the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins you remit, they shall be remitted unto him; and whose soever sins you retain, they shall be retained; John 20:21 yet, that He might set forth unity, He arranged by His authority the origin of that unity, as beginning from one. Assuredly the rest of the apostles were also the same as was Peter, endowed with a like partnership both of honour and power; but the beginning proceeds from unity."
The language of Papal primacy is weaker and more nuanced in the updated version. He believed in Papal primacy, but not supremacy. I also present as evidence this quotation of St. Cyprian from the Seventh Council of Carthage under him:
"It remains, that upon this same matter each of us should bring forward what we think, judging no man, nor rejecting any one from the right of communion, if he should think differently from us. For neither does any of us set himself up as a bishop of bishops, nor by tyrannical terror does any compel his colleague to the necessity of obedience; since every bishop, according to the allowance of his liberty and power, has his own proper right of judgment, and can no more be judged by another than he himself can judge another."
There were 87 bishops at that council, and no indication that any of them disagreed with that statement.
Disturbing. The need to wipe a holy icon with sanitizing wipes. Not everyone who says they are Orthodox is truly Orthodox. Besides the horrible misrepresentation of how Orthodox venerate icons- Western Rite Eastern rite etc doesn’t matter, Orthodoxy matters. May God save us
Orthodoxy without the beards just isn't the same...
Haha!
When did western Christians start kissing statues?
Veneration of statues as a form of icon veneration has been a practice common in the west, (and sometimes in the East) since at least the 6th century. St. Justin Martyr even tells of an icon-statue of Jesus Christ that he saw in Jerusalem that had been in constant veneration since the time of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection.
It's always been here.
venerating stautes are not different from kissing or venerating icons its just ehnically different. icons mostly come from the eastern or byzantine culture because their very similar to some of the mozaics. in the same manner the west is known for its statues or pillars so thats where it ties in is that its just ethnically different
Yea, statues are just Western icons. It has the same meaning and has the same conotation by kissing.
Don't be a Protestant.
As someone who was deeply immersed in the Roman Rite, even as a postulant for a traditional Catholic religious house, I have found the Western Rite Orthodox liturgy deeply unsettling. When I went, it lacked the coherence of either the Eastern Rites or the traditional Roman Rite. This was especially because the liturgy is something pieced together, partially from liturgical archeology and partially from elements grafted in from the East or from Anglicanism (which does NOT preserve anything real from the pre-Schism Liturgies). To me, it is a movement that is ahead of its proper time: Perhaps with the reconciliation of a traditionalist Catholic order as a whole or the acceptance of a traditionalist jurisdiction to Orthodoxy there could be adequate experience, but without that, the Eastern churches should stick to what they know: The Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
The Western Rite service is literally based on the Latin mass from before Vatican II, it's not pieced together.
The Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom isn't even the only liturgy we celebrate in the Eastern Church.
"Since Gregory the Great the Roman Rite remained the same until 1970"? what kind of fallacy is this? there is no such thing as a "Roman Rite" byzantine rites can be considered Roman rites, if you are talking about western rites, you should know there wasn´t just one of them, even in Italy you had the multiple rites from the venetian patriarchate or the aquileian patriarchate. They all were destroyed by the Council of trent and pius V, they forced the one "tridentine mass" which only lasts one hour and doesn't even have proscomidie. Also Gregory the great would be scandalized by those modern statues of the Theotokos that almost border on idolatry. Western Rite revival is an amazing project but the problem is that you always have ecumenistic wolves trying to take advantage of these situations.
Yes, there were multiple Western Rites.
And the _Roman_ Rite was one of them.
@@someguy9571 Yes. By "Roman Rite", they mean the rite of the city of Rome and her bishop, and the many Western areas which shared that rite.
Honest question- Why are Statues "bordering on Idolatry" if Icons are just fine? I don't (*necessarily) disagree with you but I want to see your work
@@blackoutninja icons depict a message from scriptures like Pantocrator who judges with the left eye and and warmly looks at you with the right eye. they are made to look deformed to the unworthy eye and are made in a way to not awake any material sense. Statues to the contrary are just sensual monuments of reinassance "beauty" that are distractful from prayer like pefect body physique, pretty faces, and skin, uncovered legs and feet in some female statues
@@panagia9007 So what about a serious less realistic looking statue?