While it's nice to use 35, 28 or even an ultra wide to shoot compelling photographs in first world locations (London, NYC, etc.) or even some exotic ones, not all of us are lucky to be around those. For me, using 56 or 85mm on a crop sensor is a form of escapism, because it thus allows me to distract myself from the chaotic visual noise in the form of ugly architecture, dirty streets and tasteless billboards around my city and focus my viewer on small pieces of beauty that I manage to find.
As someone who used to live in Brooklyn it also bears mentioning that people in places like New York and London have a LOT more exposure to people making art and are a lot more accepting of people taking their photograph. Things can get unpleasant in more rural locations.
Many thanks for this excellent and "to the point" explanation of yours. This is exactly how I feel when I grab my camera and leave my flat. Greetings from Vienna, Enver
I am aspiring photographer, i have an APSC 56mm lens which is technically a full-frame 85mm lens and I found this video to be a little discouraging to be honest. When I am out on the street taking photos, 85mm allows me to stay out of people's way and be almost inconspicuous to get nice candid shots. I feel like a shorter lens would force me too close to subjects, which if you're shooting in bustling spaces isn't exactly the best idea. Also, forgive me if i'm wrong but isn't bokeh a function of aperture as opposed to focal length? You can shoot at 85mm without stopping down to f2.8 or f1.4, so from a story telling perspective, technically you should be able to add context by shooting at f4, 5.6 or even f8 etc. Further, if you want to fill the frame with more, zoom with your feet and take some steps back so you fit more in the frame, which is what i was taught in terms of basics of photography with fixed focal lengths. But... what do i know, i only really just started, i just feel like this commentary could have been better thought through and presented.
I’ve used 24 35 50 and 85 primes and a 28-75 zoom for street photography. Every option is great. Personally I enjoyed 24mm the least because I prefer shooting street photography in a portraiture style. Use whatever you like and if you want encouragement about using an 85mm for street photography check out Professor Hines instead. Much better photographer and he uses 85mm for his street photography
Why don’t you just use what you have or what you want to use? If you’re getting the results you want then don’t worry about what other people say. These people sometimes say things for content and may true for them but not for tou. Don’t overthink this; it’s just photography; you’re not performing brain surgery
Maybe 85mm could make someone lazy but IMO it goes for every lens, someone with a 28mm could simply start spraying shots everywhere without thinking or developing their vision. Choosing a specific lens will limit you to take some specific photos, but it all depends on what you're looking for. Maybe I don't want to capture what you want to capture and that's fine, there is a huge difference between looks and moments in every lens type and there's no wrong takes in street photography, a good moment is a good moment, on a 28mm or a 85mm. I personally walk with both at all times and when I'm using a specific lens I'm looking for completely different moments, it has different skills and feelings to it, your vision has to change depending on your lens. I think the problem is that some people are using 85mm thinking it is a 35mm, seeing "bad" work or not liking the photos they take doesn't make that lens LAZY or SKILLLESS, it means they still have to develop the vision for that specific lens. I also have a different view on the "not close enough" quote, for me is not distance but story/feeling wise
Thanks for watching! That's completely fair enough - I actually agree with a few of those points. Everyone can shoot as they wish, obviously. Thanks again!
It could also be argued that using a wide angled Les is much lazier because everything is already in focus without effort from the human taking the image. There are no rules.
You’re forgetting- that there are people who chooses a long focal length because they are uncomfortable taking that shot when they are close to someone. That’s not lazy - that’s loving photography the way your heart tells you to do.
@@jimmason8502 the only effect on people is that you appear to be creepier: people do notice that you're photographing them, also if you use a longer lens. Better to be up front, come close to the people you're photographing. Or stop doing street photography
@@urbandiscount and it's not creepy to shoot them up close? This argument made zero sense. In one scenario someone could easily be seen as taking photo of the cityscape and any other thing that are closer to the photographer, and in the other there is no mistaking that this person nearby with a camera pointing at you practically intruding your personal space is taking a picture of you. There is no doubt that longer focal length would be easier in general for candid photos, that effect is real, there's no real need to deny it just because you prefer or think wider lens takes better pictures.
@@shira_yone I find it more natural if ppl don't really know either it's them or the street in general you'r taking picture of, it's human to feel more confortable when you'r not the center of attention so i find it less offensive.
@@arima7796 indeed. I feel like _some_ people harping on exclusively using wide for photos of people on the street, are just high on the 'dare' aspect of it. It's risky and it feels good that they did it and got away with invading peoples' personal space in the name of art. The guy I replied to also ignores the fact that there are many longer focal length lenses (40mm, 50mm, even 75mm or longer on crop sensors) that have a small, if not pancake size lenses. Long focal length doesn't always mean you'll have a freaking telescope glass on your camera, making you look like an absolute buffoon.
I have never really understood why focal length is such a controversial topic within street photography. If a wildlife photo was taken at 50mm, but was still a great photo, no wildlife photographer would say this isnt true wildlife as it isn't telephoto. So why is it such an issue with street. You see it all the time, it's not proper street unless it's 35mm? Nonsense. I don't think for a second this is your intention, but this will possible make people feel really bad about their photography and they should never have to. Suggesting it is lazy is so harsh and the almost aggressive way James is stating that it is not your skills as a photographer is an awful watch. For me. So unnecessary. If you are using an 85mm because you like compression, how is that any different to using a 35mm because you like it to look natural. That is still the lens doing the work. The real issue is surely that whether an 85mm or 35mm, if you have an interesting subject/ moment/ scene then the photo will be good. If you have a mundane subject/ moment/ scene then the photo will be bad. It's up to the photographer to decide what they take a photo of not the lens or camera. Lastly I wouldn't necessarily call the natural characteristics of a lenses output a gimmick. And used in the right way an 85mm at 1.8 can still tell a story in the right hands. I really tried hard not to be bothered by this video but I was defeated. In conclusion nobody should ever feel bad about how they want to capture the world we live in. Pick what lens you want that suits your vision and your personality and go out and have fun.
Firstly, thanks for watching and for the comment. The discussion is good. Of course people can use whatever they want whenever they want and I’m happy for people to disagree. However I do believe my point is valid (or else I wouldn’t have made the video). A wider focal length makes getting street photos that are good, harder to do. Therefore pushing your abilities and or making progress. Not saying that’s fact and I’m 100% right. But it’s a theory I strongly believe. Again, thanks for watching. I don’t mean to cause distress to anyone… but seeing the comments from other people and DMs I’ve had, it looks like many people agree or are intrigued by these ideas. I wouldn’t make up the script if I didn’t think there was something worthwhile sharing. Have a great day ✌🏻
I would agree with you. Take David Yarrow who’s made some incredible fine art work of wildlife photography by using a wide angle lens, although some shots were taken with a remote trigger, but his work stood out amongst wildlife photographers. I think the same could be said if a street photographer used a longer focal length.
I do agree that technology does not make a good photographer. A good photographer takes good photos be it on a 28mm or an 85mm lens. Use whatever lens you like and feel comfortable with. Do not be put off by people telling you that your kit is ruining your photography. Learn what your lenses allow you to create and if you are happy with the results you get then that is surely all that matters.
Yep. 100% 👌🏻 but also don’t fall for the idea that you can’t improve, just because you’re happy with the result. Happy or not - progress can always be made. That’s my opinion. Thanks for watching! Appreciate the comment.
An interesting thought. But Saul Leiter, the grandfather of modern colour street photography shot almost solely on two focal lengths, 85 and 150. They are different lenses and have their own character, just as the 35mm has its own character. My current all time favourite lens for street is 135mm f2 from canon. A 30 year old lens. But as I mentioned it’s an interesting thought and sure to provoke much reaction and discussion, which in itself is a good thing.
Yep, totally understand. I think my main point, as condensed as I can write, would be - I don't think it's advised for a beginner to stick with an 85mm (or any tele) and call it a day. There is so much more to learn about street photography and techniques that fancy bokeh and compression might distract newbies from seeing past that.
I love that Canon 135!… oooooeeee! but I do have to stop myself because of the beautiful aesthetic. If all my images come out beautiful, then to me that's a red flag.
Maybe don't use a clickbait title to start with and that might add to your credibility. It is doubtful that 85mm is "ruining" people's street photography. I am glad you mentioned Saul Leiter because he pretty much completely dismantles your entire theory. You kept mentioning fancy bokeh, I'm not sure where you got the idea bokeh was fancy. It is a compositional tool just like any other and it can be used to highlight or hide aspects of an image, thus simplifying it. Again as Leiter is a great example, using bokeh and other similar aspects in an image such as blurry rain streaked windows isn't laziness by any means. Somewhere in the comments you said " I don't think it's advised for a beginner to stick with an 85mm (or any tele) and call it a day" perhaps you could have expounded on that and made it clearer in your video. My advice is that people should challenge themselves to use unfamiliar focal lengths and then they will often grow as a photographer so that a 24mm or an 85mm in their hands is equally effective. I am glad we have people like you who are the arbiters of "true street photography". You will look back on this video and realize how pompous you sounded in the surety of your ego. I love your photographic work and hope you are able to grow in other areas.
85 mm is my first lens and I like it very much. I love taking the real emotions and facial expressions of people on the street, and with the distance offered by 85 mm lens, people won't notice that they are your subject. And also, it's not laziness, I think with 85 mm, you really need to step back a distance to get the right angle, most of the time, I am challenge to walk fast or run just to get the right distance to get that subject into my frame. If you want to be extraordinary, don't limit yourself to common standards and norms, be different from other's ways.
i remember older photographers complaining about how digital was ruining photography. you constantly hear natural light photographers talk about how much better they are than those who use ofc. then you have the ones who complain because sooo many photographers shoot wide open and how that takes no skill. unbelievable how much people have to say about other people minding their business doin their own thing
A lens has never RUINED anyone's photography. A good photo is entirely subjective. This is nothing more than a bias towards what you like to personally see in street photography. And what you happen to like may be better suited to a different focal length. That doesn't mean an 85 can't create photos with that same feel. Creativity, vision, practice makes for good photos. What you put on the end of your camera does not change that. 35, 85, or anything else.
I shot with a X100v for a couple of years and sold it. Turns out I'm a long lens type of guy. The 35mm to a 75mm is a totally different tool. The images that shout to me are the long lens type. Wide just doesn't cut it. As an equestrian sports photographer I shoot at the long end between 300-400mm. So 85mm is wide to me. The choice of subject with the long lens is as much about the skill as with the wide lens. Have a great year. Be lucky stay safe.
This has long since crossed the line in which we just enjoy people's art, or we don't. This is overthinking it harder than woodpecker lips. Maybe this is why I don't get along with other photographers lol. Like my photos, or don't. There is a huge element of gatekeeping here, and it's toxic. "Walking down the street at 1.4 isn't street photography, it's lazy". I hope you watched this video after you made it to hear what you sound like. lol. Do you always stop to analyze the photo to determine if the photographer has the bona fides you deem necessary for you to enjoy it? Must they have always spent enough time putting in work your "proper" way before using hardware to do something for them?
You mentioned Saul Leiter, I think it's important to note however that his photography (to me at least) isn't traditional "smell the street, make the viewer feel like they're there" street photography, it's more sort of abstract street photography. Or maybe just abstract photography that happens to happen in the street, I haven't decided. Yes he uses long focal lengths, but he uses that compression in combination with reflections, water/rain on windows, frames within a frame, lots of negative space, obfuscating people's faces, large dominant shapes and colors, shadows, etc. to get an almost painting like compositions and abstractness. He isn't out there taking literal/straightforward photos of people or street portraits. That's why Saul was able to use long focal lengths and produce amazing work, but if HCB or Bruce Gilden used one it would diminish the impact of their more traditional street photos.
Don't forget Ernst Haas. His compositions, like Leiter, are also abstract-y painting like (interesting to note these 2 men studied painting before). Seems like there are 2 major approached in street photography. One is the classic documentary/photojournalism style, done by HCB, Lee Friedlander, Robert Frank, Eggleston etc. And the other is what I called "fine/abstract art". Like Leiter. When I started learning street photography, I tried to stick to 50mm or 35mm whenever possible. Then I discovered Ralph Gibson's work, which is also a fan of telephoto (most likely since film days). 85mm or longer allows you to capture specific details easily, not always about bokeh, though.
The 85mm is impressive and I think that it takes a lot of work to be able to capture a photo with it because everything is too tight. Yes, the 1.4 and the 1.8 help a lot, but when you've taken a bad photo it shows, no matter what you do or use as gear. For me an 85mm is a difficult lens to work with especially when you are visiting a new place. If you are shooting in the same environment over and over again then the 85mm could open a new door in photography for you.
Could've titled it "Why you should focus more on composition than technical capabilities of your lens" but we all know it won't generate as much clout.
If someone decides to use a 1.4 lens instead of any another aperture, it’s just his choice and preference, doesn’t mean he is lazy. (Don’t be arrogant) not everyone likes your style of photography, but that doesn’t mean you are, lazy, stupid, etc. it’s just your style. Peace ✌️
I think a factor to consider is how the photographer sees the world. For example two people can see the same well dressed person, the first goes 'hey great outfit' (35mm) the second says 'I love your necklace' (85m). Its's not that the 35mm didn't notice the necklace, it was simply one piece of a total picture. In turn, the first thing the 85mm noticed was the outfit, yet it was the necklace that drew their eye and was the reason the outfit stood out. The reason many of us became photographers is to share with others what 'we' see.
man the mental gymnastics involved to think that your gear is somehow less responsible for an image when you’re using a different focal length is impressive 😅
I'm happy to realize pretty quickly that the video is actually about something else then I was fearing. The only reason I go for 85mm for my street isn't for guiding the eye to the subject using bokeh, but being able to keep more distance to the subject while shooting 😅 ...therefore happy to hear that nobody seems to feel like somethings wrong with that :-)
The "correct" lens for any and every subject is simply the one the photographer finds right for them - I love my 85, I equally love my 50, 24, 200 etc, etc. Your comment is so true, and restricting street photography to simply 35mm restrict the photographers vision.
I had the same thought 😅. While I also don’t feel that using bokeh is “lazy”, it’s just different and not HIS style. No reason to put it down. My reason for wanting to use an 85mm in street is that I’m a 2 meter tall male and people deeefinitely notice me wielding a camera if I am anywhere close.
I'd rather have a photographer take a photograph with me prominently in it up close, so I can interact and maybe refuse? Photographing people from far away takes away their agency.
Since when does 35mm not produce bokeh??? Its all about how close you are to your subject. If your subject is not too close even with 85 doesn't give you unealistic bokeh
Great video! I often hear street photographers talk about how you need to shoot with wider lengths but I find this a bit dismissive of the results that each and every focal length can create. Shooting wide is great and can get great results, the same is for telephoto. People should work with both imo.
Great video from start to finish Mike, I’m guilty for using the 85mm in some situations I shouldn’t. That being said The 85mm is as good as the person using it and I think it’s a great street lens, the wider angle of 35mm and 24mm for street is just another way of shooting street. Yes the compression of the 85mm is the core reason people love it but that’s not a bad thing. Your work has progressed ten fold and it’s great see you sharing that Knowledge! Looking forward to seeing more 🤙🏼
A bit of a convoluted way to say "Your composition matters more than the effects you're applying". Good photography is always an interplay of composition, subject matter, lighting and awareness. That's stuff you need to learn by trying and being critical of your work. If you don't have that, it doesn't matter what lens you are using.
Meh, I shoot a lot of my street photography at 135mm. I wish to remain unseen when I shoot. Unobtrusive. Like you said, I feel it makes for more candid, realistic shots when the subject doesn’t know I’m there. The bokeh is meaningless to me. The only reason I’m shooting at 1.8 is to maximize how much light I’m gathering at night. Daytime I’m often shooting at f/4, 5.6 or higher. Also, I am an extreme introvert, so shooting telephoto saves me from having to stick my camera in peoples’ faces and create confrontation, which, hey if someone’s into that good on them, but it’s not my style.
There are a lot more factors for using a longer length in street photography that were sadly overlooled here. For one, not all people are comfortable at the same level when it comes to face to face interaction. There are other factors like race, language that also come into equation when you do street photography. Someone who is not native and fluent in English may not be able to instantly build a camaraderie through banter with a native English speaking person. Language barrier is huge and hard to understand if you never experienced it. Also if a brown person is holding a camera on the face, other races may not feel the same comfort level that she/he may experience from the same race. These are hard truths that we have to acknowledge. So, longer lenses help to overcome barriers like these and still helps to continue and enjoy the art of street photography.
The size of that person that you captured next to the billboard will actually vary depending on the compression. If you were to keep the billboard almost the same size in your frame, the size of that person might be drastically different when using different focal lengths. And it might be for better or worse. It's one thing to encourage people not to be restricted by their equipment, but another thing to totally deny the effect of your equipment on your photos. I agree the temptation of shallow depth of field could hinder many beginner photographers' progress. But some of the composition techniques you guys mentioned are also frequently over-utilized to the point it feels kind of cliche, just like the unrealistically extremely contrasty black and white scene, the over-saturation of colors. Is it better to be reliant on your post-processing "skills of a photographer", than to optimally choose and utilize your lens which you could not take any photos without one? To just highlight the drawbacks of the long focal length seems, ironically, too focus on a certain technical aspect of your tools. Every composition skill/tool could be overused, but it doesn't mean you could avoid shooting cliche photos by just avoiding one of them. And to make good use of these tools and skills are all "skills of photographers" imo.
This is the "No true Scotsman" fallacy applied to photography. No lens is advertised as "Street" or "sports" or "portraits" but rather we the photographers place these labels on these tools. I notice carpenters don't sit around arguing how they build furniture only with one type of hammer and anyone that doesn't can't be called one. If you take a picture on the street, it's street photography.
@@MikeChudley That's not what we're discussing here, because "good" is highly subjective depending who you ask. My point is I can make a street image using a camera marketed to wedding photographers in the 60s the same as I would with a modern digital camera. To fixate on a specific lens as the only appropriate tool for a form of art is a bit elitist IMO.
As someone who loves the 85mm, I came here with a really defensive stance but I think the points actually make a lot of sense to me. Especially the point about sharp photos with a blurred background, anyone with the gear can take those photos. But I still love the abstractness of zooming in to smaller details and I guess I'll be using both smaller and larger focal distances.
Thanks for the comment! That was pretty much my entire point. People can use whatever they want but I want to be clear, that blurry background and funky bokeh is the tool used. Not the eye of the photographer. But also, it’s not that deep in the end haha just have fun
I have to disagree with this nonsense. No lens focal length will ruin your photography (including street photography) as long as you are enjoying using it and taking pictures that you like and love. Either candid street photography or asking someone in the street directly for their photo, all is good as long as that is the thing that we want to take pictures of. Even if the photo are blurry, or some random composition, as long as the photographer like it, it doesn't matter, as it's subjective and intimately personal happiness, let alone lens choices.
Just a touch clickbait-y, but some genuinely good insights, supplemented with the partner video and the books you mentioned (long live Saul Leiter). I'm a huge fan of 85mm, but I agree that it's not the ideal glass to be lugging around when you want to be moving around, agile-like, grabbing snaps on the street, finding those serendipitous moments, framing and zooming with your feet, and seeing how much proximity to real humans you can stomach before it gets a bit too close for comfort. I prefer my Fujifilm X100V as well as my Sony A7C with either the 24mm, 35mm or 40mm prime. Recenty, however, I found a fun combo: Sigma 28-70mm! This is a compact zoom, extremely light and bright, the ideal tool for maximum possibilities when cruising the city. You see something close, bam - you're there with the 35. You see something further away, zip - you're there with the 70. It's beautiful. At any rate, I love your style, very hands-on, pragmatic, down to earth - and you've got good talent behind the box. Keep up the great work and videos!
85mm is a focal length like any other. You can shoot it wide open or not. That is a choice and can work ... or not. The only thing that can ruin your street photography is the dumbass behind the camera. ... and youtubers, I guess.
I want to love street photography, I think its fascinating and can provide some incredible photos. But I also never do it, for the reason that the City I live in just doesnt really offer many unique things, or subjects to use in the photos. Pretty much plain city streets with no artwork or anything to use in the photos. And I understand you gotta be creative, thats what makes it so difficult. And ive spent countless days testing as many different angles and compositions as possible, yet still finding the images very boring due to location. I wish one day I can try street photography in a bigger city that has more to offer! Great video btw.
I came to watch the video thinking "but I don't even have a 85mm" but the discussion is really good! The same could be said using 28mm as point of reference. Some people think just because is wide and filled up with elements, it is a good photo already - which is not.
I generally don’t make comments, but be careful not to over generalize. The finger can get pointed right back at you. I’ve had a dark room in my house and grew up shooting only film. It would be ridiculous for me to accuse you of being lazy because you don’t go into a dark room and develop film and do test strips with an enlarger before printing, but rather go grab a digital camera and take your photos like it was a machine gun hoping that something will be your ACE of the group of thousands that were shot within that day. Do you see how my over generalization is as guilty as calling an 85 mm lens lazy??? Sometimes the shot calls for a particular focal length and just works. I have a film photo taken at the LAX airport where I was shooting a contextualized photo compressing the scene of 1/4 mile of traffic with a traffic COP trying to work the cars into the airport while my frame contains foreground, mid, and background while shooting with a 200 mm lens. Is that lazy and no longer considered street photography? My scene had layering just as if I were shooting a 28 mm lens in a very close proximity scene. It’s how you use the lens. It’s not the length of the lens. The opposite could be true that a 35 mm lens is much more lazy than trying to shoot a street photograph while using a 12 mm lens. It’s just kind of a ridiculous topic. I know what you were trying to convey. I just think you were barking up the wrong tree when it comes to artistic expression. Cheers!!!
I didn’t agree with what was said in the video, but it was interesting-I use a Sony 85 mm 1.4 and it’s my favorite street photography lens as I don’t want to get close to my subjects.🙂
I use a 85mm. It’s not something I use more than my 35 or 24mm, but the compression of the glass does add another layer that you can’t get from the other two . if you do it right , you can compose images that can add life to your photos .
An interesting video Mike. I did get a bit of a chuckle though when after introducing your thesis, at 1:45, with the use of a photo that used a pan to keep the subject of you photo in focus with the rest of the frame obscured by motion blur. In doing so you have created an image that no passer by actually experienced and is completely dependent on a camera function, not unlike using a narrow depth of field to isolate a subject.
Haha very good. And I appreciate the comment! I almost agree completely, but it still required the user to move and create the image. Granted, it required tech - like a slow shutter speed. Which in my opinion is more intentional than sticking a lens at f1.8. Thanks Steve ✌🏻
Your point about wider lenses offering capabilities of classic street photography is very well taken. Also wider lenses force you to think more comprehensively about the composition of the entire image. I think though there is room for longer lenses and bokeh in street photography. (Does a paint brush ruin an oil painting? After all, it's so "lazy" to use a brush for your oil painting.) A lens that does compression and background blur is a tool. It might not get you classic street photography, but in the right hands, it can craft beautiful images. Simply adding background blur to an average image can easily result in just another average image.
I recently just started shooting with my 85 a lot more, always went out with the 20-60 if I was just walking around town but I felt that the zoom capability was making me lazy, switching to the 85 has made me be more intentional with composition because I don’t have that zoom to rely on. So I guess it just depends how you look at it 📸
I tried my Fuji 56mm crop (85mm equivalent) for a while on the street but it was horribly habit-forming (seeking bokeh, too little focus on backgrounds). When I switched to 16-55mm zoom (24-84mm equivalent), maybe a third of my shots were at full zoom but that was slowly reducing throughout a six month period. Now I'm almost always on 33mm (50mm equivalent). I find the 33mm harder work, insofar as it requires strong composition (thoughtful foreground and background, and clever light) to avoid pics looking flat and plain. But it still feels like the 'right' focal length for me. And I love how it's just about zoomy enough to produce fully flattering portraits.
People are getting way too focused on the whole "telling a story" I'm a photographer because I'm a visual person, I like how things look and manifest. I don't need a story behind a shot, I want to create images that look good to me, it's just a hobby for me personally, I create images because I like looking at them.
Taking photos because you like looking at them is a great reason to take photos! Enjoy 👌🏻 My thoughts are not personally targeted towards your photography. In my personal opinion and with my personal street photography I’m looking for more, more ways to improve on my work, more ways to keep it moving forward. Just my honest opinion, and it doesn’t have to impose on anyone else’s.
Social media is flooded with pictures taken on 85mm and it’s been boring seeing the similar pictures that doesn’t portray much. When done nicely, it’s a good story telling focal length. Imagine picking up a book and it’s the same style, all shot on the 85mm. It would be certainly unpleasant to look at. With the current modern enhancement of cameras, people tend to stray away from confrontation in photography, at least from what I’ve noticed and seen. 85mm or the 70-200mm, standing far away and spray away. Capture moments but also showcase the environment as well as the emotions.
Yeah I agree with that! The best street photos in my opinion are closer and are taken within the scene. Not 2 streets away at 200mm. Thanks for watching and glad you liked it.
I love my 85 and being a bit shy it gives me space. I use a Nikon Z6ii and I'm more noticeable than users of Leica or Fujifilm. Having said that I agree with Kenneth Hinse's take. Lenses don't come with labels. Use what makes you comfortable and use the focal length which produces the images you want to want to present to the world.
You are wise beyond your years... I just found your channel and it's refreshing to see a young photographer with such clean presentation. The knowledge you present is amazing and thought provoking. Even an old photographer like myself can learn different perspectives from your videos. A pleasant change from most young you tubers that start their videos with, "Whats uuuuup people?". When I start a video that begins like that, I close it and move on to another one. Period... Every time!
I’ve always found a similar situation when I’m shooting street with the low f numbers I don’t feel it works. I do think the isolation aspects of the 85mm to be an important tool to have though, and is actually a really good focal length to be able to catch intimate moments but also gives you the distance and space to do so.
I'll still give this vid a thumbs up as it a brave and bold POV, but keep in mind its ur POV and not fact. I see where your coming from but I think what the intention behind the shot determines what lens one chooses. I also think each photographer has their own quirks that may explain why they choose a particular lens for street photography. For example you might be shy and just don't want to get that close to a person to capture them or u just want the shot punched in for emphasis. if the person shooting just sits back and all they get is a person separated from the background with no other detail but the persons has a pensive expression it wouldnt hit the same on a 35 or 50m. I would say to call that lazy might've been too strongly worded as its just a different way to capture someone up close, but nice way to tackle it without pissing everyone off.
As someone who gravitates towards the long end for street photography, this was an uncomfortable watch, but some really good points made. I do like the subject-isolation that the 85mm offers and, as you say, it doesn't have to be shot wide open all the time! Maybe a good exercise for someone finding their feet in street photography would be to slap on an 18-55 / 24-105 and just try a week of shooting at each of the classic focal lengths. Tape the zoom ring down if necessary! Or even just use the zoom for an extended period and then review the pictures and see which focal lengths they found gave the best / most satisfying results for them personally. I just got back from a trip to the Middle-East. I took my X-T5 with Fuji's little 15-45 zoom (23-67 equiv), mostly for its light weight and compact size. Big mistake for me; I found the lack of reach at the long end frustrating. Horses for courses, I guess.
I think any photography should be judged based on whether it is a good image or not. What it was shot with really should not matter. And lets be real. Without a lens a camera is useless. We are all "relying on our gear" to make a good image whether it is 8mm or 800mm,....or a pinhole. And I have shot street photos on a pinhole medium format film camera. And street photography now should not have to look like street photography from the 40s. Oh and any street photos shot on a TLR back in the day were between 70 and 85mm but that is another discussion. Fun fact. The reason most of the street photography back in the day was shot on 50mm was not because of some attachment to perspective. It was because it was the only focal length with built in frame lines on the old Leica III. People shot 50mm so they didn't have to buy a separate viewfinder from Leica. I shit you not.
What I meant is that the title should be "why an 85 lens COULD ruin..." and not "why an 85 ruins"... the speech in the vidéo is clear about it so please modify the title even if it does not grab attention to the same level
i use my 85mm for portrait shoots or family shoots exclusively. i can’t afford the 35mm i want but i invested in a 50mm when i got my body and i love it. it’s perfect for street and it feels so natural. i probably would love 35mm as well but maybe one day i’ll get to try it.
Good photos are good photos regardless of the focal length. I know the video titles are a way of attracting views but geez tone down the drama. It's "RUINING" youtube.
Love to the commenters who left reminders for others that your photography style is not worse, lazy, or unskilled simply because it is different from another's preferences.
I get the point and partially agree.... BUT, there's a flaw in the case you're making... because when we look at something we focus on it, mentally,, while NOT focusing on the rest of the environment in that moment... call this "psychological f1.4 - f2.8".... the lens & setting your saying is "ruining your street photography" is making this PSYCHOLOGICAL phenomenon a visual one. This is at the core of what it does... it ALSO does what you're saying.... but that's secondary. When we spend time looking at a photo for multiple elements of support, them yes, the bokeh gives you less detail to explore... it's all just about intent.
This video should be titled as "Why subjective photography is RUINING your Street Photography". everything depends on perspective.. Story can be created and captured with a 85mm too.
As someone who just within the past week purchased their first camera in 15 years and an 85 1.4 lens with the intent of street photography (to start with), I was reeled in by the title bait with concern. Before actually watching the video, and due to my lack of knowledge and experience, I had already begun questioning my choice of lens, but once I finished watching, I feel that your points are all very valid, and they opened my mind quite a lot as to what it is I should be doing, relying on, and paying attention to when I go out there. Thanks for the video!
I actually think 85 is closer representation to what your eyes see when it comes to your subject and its relation (compression) to the background. Although the 35 probably captures a wider scene like your eyes do. So it’s a selection between “realism” vs. inclusion. But thanks for the video. I did not know shooting streets with 85 was a thing.
I agree with your point a lot! I tested 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm in the same shot thru my viewfinder, and moved my head aside to see "what I actually see", and the 85mm was easily the closest to how I perceive an object. I also think for people that doubt what they need or want to use, the 50 stays the easiest "safe" bet until they find out what if they want more or less in their frame, or they ultimately find out the 50mm does all they need.
@@Deniot92for me, even using zooms, I don't myself using 35 and 85 most, but if I could only have one prime it would be a 50. Fortunately I have, like, 5 50's, so it's no problem. Use a 40mm 2.8 and 90mm 2.8 macro, because they're lighter and better for varied use.
Super interesting topic, and an eye opening video for me. I'm 5 years into my photography/street photography journey, and naturally, I started with a zoom lens, then went to a 50mm, then 85mm, and now...this year I started using film. I noticed a huuuge difference in the way I shoot with my 50mm on my full frame film camera, vs the 50 and 85mm with my cropped digital camera. The film is closer to what my eyes see, which feels so much more natural and has been super enjoyable to shoot with, and also, I've almost liked my film street work more than my digital because of that. As a more introverted shooter, I am a fan of the longer focal length, but there really is something to be said about the "natural true to eye" feel in photos, that hits home differently. Great video man!
Well presented video. I think, personally, to say an image is bad because someone uses gear with higher specs than someone else is borderline ignorant. A great image evokes an emotional response. Be it interest, excitement, curiosity, whatever. If bokeh, or a razor thin FOV helps the image convey the photographer's intent, I'm well fine with that. I myself have only recently forced myself to use nothing below f8 as an exercise in composition and technique. That said, I just felt it was time to update the look of my images and change my approach. Saying that any particular way of shooting with a certain type of gear is lazy?.... In the end, I shoot for myself and I share with my family and friends and a small subsection of the photography community. I don't ever think I will be proud of an image but then wince and think 'I was lazy here. I really could have, and should have, made it harder on myself to convey this emotion'.
"A great image evokes an emotional response." I realized that a picture can evolve over time from being bad to good. A picture of a house I lived in as a child, and a picture of my grandmother were not particularly good when they were taken, but evoke an emotional response now. From this I learn that I should probably take a lot of pictures now, which can increase in value over time.
I 💯disagree that long focal lengths and shallow DoF is both lazy and bad street photography as you say. Photography is whatever you want it to be and the images we all produce should reflect each of our own styles. Trying to conform to a pre conceived look is not doing yourself justice. Especially 28mm or 35mm. I shoot street photography for 12 years and I used every focal length. I have settled on 105mm for street. Remember "ability’\" has absolutely nothing to do with gear or focal length.
For new photographers who pick up an 85mm and shoot a person crossing the street at 1.8 is boring, it’s low effort, anyone can do it. Shooting a scene at 28mm with multiple elements composed well that tells a story and all works cohesively is FAR for interesting but VERY difficult to do. Using a 85mm at 1.4 definitely does not require the same ability as a wider focal length. Totally different types of awareness, observational skills, timing and storytelling. However, I did show you some examples of 85mm being used well. It can be done! But most of the time.. it’s done poorly by people who think a bokehlecious photos is “street photography”. And I used to be that 85mm dude. But I learnt more, pushed myself to get closer and therefore progressed. Obviously this is all personal taste. Thanks for watching and commenting 👌
@@MikeChudley I still 100% disagree with your generalization. I understand there are different types of photographers and different looks. All are viable. Calling people lazy for using an 85mm is plain wrong. One could use the same term for someone that just points a 35mm at a scene and clicks away. Maybe insult people less and offer constructive opinions instead. Moving from 85mm to 35mm is not a progression of skills. It's simply a change.
I'm implying that attempting to achieve a great image on 35mm and stepping away from a single subject bokeh 85mm is definitely a progression of skills. That doesn't mean 85mm doesn't require skill to get great images, this video covers some great examples of it being done well. But my opinions on this topic are for beginners who want to improve. Those orange and teal urban photographs that flooded instagram in 2018 are definitely easy and beginner level photographs. Historic, timeless work from the greatest of street photographers typically seem to be 28/35mm work. I would like to add, this isn't personal hate towards anyone. If we had this conversation in a coffee shop I bet it would feel different, no passive aggression or harsh disagreements, these are just our opinions. Have a great day,@@RonEMarks
I like my 85 mm for street photography, I am not so confident yet and I like to stay a bit far from people and catch their emotions. I have a pov video on my channel if you want to have a look. I will try next time to use my 30mm 1.4 but going to close to people I feel like I'm invading their space, maybe I have to build up more courage.
Sounds like you’re trying to convince people of what is art and what type of art they should like. Are we supposed to be sheep and like specific things?
You see this gatekeeping from a lot of creators. If you are not using a wide angle then it's not "real" street photography, which is just complete nonsense.
If I'm using a prime then I use 50mm (equiv) it not too close and not too far, if I'm using the pancake zoom then look at trimming to composition...I've never understood the story part of photography as to me that is videography and photography is about a small moment in time, a bit sized morsal hence the the term snap-shot...
I am thinking about the longer focal length, because it helps to keep the scene uninterrupted by the photographer's presence. I shoot with full frame equivalent 35 and 84, and I'm thinking about 135.
I don't mean to sound hostile in this response but: I don't even like 85 and I can't really agree with this. Just shoot with what you like and thinks looks good. Your images that have everything in focus and no subject separation might not be appealing in the same way you find the look that 85 gives as unappealing. I don't think it's right to say "how to improve as street photographers" when people intentionally want that look in their images. Improve to a technical style that is more appealing to you? Or the person taking the photo? There is nothing objective about street photography, so why try make it as if having everything in focus is objectively superior and call people lazy for shooting how they like? For context for street I use M43 system with a 30mm equiv shooting at f5.6 almost all the time. I just think we should let people shoot with what they like is all. 85 dof adds onto street photography, not ruin it.
Hey, yep I don't disagree with any of that. However, I believe lots of people fall into the trap of getting stuck at that 85mm bokeh shot. Because it's easier than trying to compose something at 28/35mm. Perhaps I'm being over critical because I just simply love street photography. People can of course shoot with whatever they like, I thought that goes without saying. But the very best street and documentary photographers don't rely on the hardware to tell great stories, they capture moments that tell great stories, and for me, that's the goal of street photography. To document life and tell stories. We could go around in circles debating opinions here, of course you can tell stories at 85mm, like I mention in my video. But either way, I appreciate the comment and sharing your opinion!
Started with an 85mm on a SLR .. now I shoot with a 28mm fixed lens point and shoot.. when I shot 85mm I was trying to shoot a “subject” now I try to shoot a “scene” and my street photography has improved so much.
Just to clarify or perhaps dispel a myth. Compression effect is not a function of the focal lenght of the lens but the distance from the camera to subject to background. Telephoto lenses do not create compression per se, it is just that you tend to shoot from a greater distance. You can get the same effect by shooting with a 35mm lens from a distance and then cropping the image (although image quality may suffer). You also wont get the Bokeh or blurry background as much with the 35 even shooting wide open but that is different to 'compression' and is a function of aperture, focal length and subject distance.
While I love that you are not afraid to express your oppinion, it all depends on the person behind the camera. If you use an 85 as a 35, you will get the super blurry background. But at that point it might be more of a portait shot. My favourite photographer right now is Pat Kay and his favourite lens for street is an 85. He rarely shoots super tight portraits of people, but rather looks further away to give more context. I can highly recomend his stuff. But all controversies aside, i agree with several points in this video. Great quality content as usual Mike!
Thanks mate, yeah I shared some examples of it being done well. It’s all in the approach and what you want to gain from it. If you’re a good photographer, I’m sure you can use anything right?
But, what about angular lenses? I think in this case is worst.The use and abuse of the angular lens, taking the picture very close to the subject, from a low angle, make a perfect street photo. It doesn´t matter if the subject is interestng and, of course, there is no composition. Becasue the drama is created by the deformationof the image. In fact, I saw a lot of famous (here in Spain) street photographers during a workshop, proud of telling you that they don´t think: low point of view, from the hip o lower, angular lens (28mm, GRIII), very close to the subject, black and white, and the photo is correct. In that workshop, organized by ricoh, I tried to use 50mm, and all the comments where related with this situation: "Use angular", "change your point of view to a lower",... I agree with you, the lens is a tool and you have to know how to use it, but I think the angular lenses are ruining the street photography.
Polarising street photography with 28mm/35mm/50mm focal length is limiting the ability of the photographer to capture a for her/him great (street) photograph. I like the 85mm/105mm focal length also for street photographs. Even my best photographs of the streets of Paris is performed with a 200-500mm zoom lens. This create a different look instead of the copy of the street photographs of other (street) photographers. Better to educate the audience that they should look for/discover their preferred focal length for street photography.
I don't agree with you sir, an 85mm is another focal length and another way of seeing the scenes just like with a 35mm, it all depends on how it's used. I agree that someone picture crossing the street with an 85mm and little PDC is not street photography but an 85mm is useful to capture gestures, feelings, expressions...another way of seeing. Thanks.
I agree to some extend but verything depends on this what you want to show with your photos and it's subjective as definition of street photography is quite broad. I like to shoot with 85mm but recently I use more 50mm or 35mm but I still utilize quite heavily f1.4 because I enjoy subject separation. Like everything, street photograpy is evolving and its definition maybe didn't change but tools that we can use, yet. We are not longer limited to manual wide angle lenses which were easier to use when AF was not a thing (which in lens with shallow depth of field us handy) and to 20 something frames in film. We need to also drop the mindset that the way how street photogrophy was done in 70' 80' or even earlier is the only right way. There are challenges while using every focal lenght and discussion which way of showing how you see everyday life through the lens is like discussion which football team is better, it will never end :D.
I have to say I'm guilty of this with my 85mm, the 85mm has been my favourite lens for quite a while and I assume that's because I find it the easiest. Recently I've not been using it as much and I've been using my 35mm a lot to try and improve my photography and straight away found it so much harder to get photos I'm happy with. You see all these people on Instagram taking pictures of things like a bike seat at 1.4 and there's loads of bokeh, they get so many likes for it but I bet if they had to use something like a 35mm at 5.6 then they would struggle their asses off. Anyway, great video and I look forward to the next ✌️
i consider pictures of buildings "landscape photography" suited for wide lenses. if you are brave and figured out how to take candid shots of people straight on, or on an angle, with the 85mm, then great. otherwise, forget it, been there, done that, and it sucks. you end up with pics of the backs of peoples bodies, or shots that look like smartphone pics. the best shots i have taken have been mostly at 200 to 300mm. you can shoot across the street in oppostion. these shots had great separation and bokeh that retained context, plus the front of peoples heads showing their facial expressions. certainly a 28 would capture the mood of a crowd that you are in, which is great, but i suggest long lenses when not in a crowd situation (grand central station, night club, party, etc.). thanks.
A big thank you to James for contributing to this video. You guys should really check out his channel! (link in the video description).
While it's nice to use 35, 28 or even an ultra wide to shoot compelling photographs in first world locations (London, NYC, etc.) or even some exotic ones, not all of us are lucky to be around those. For me, using 56 or 85mm on a crop sensor is a form of escapism, because it thus allows me to distract myself from the chaotic visual noise in the form of ugly architecture, dirty streets and tasteless billboards around my city and focus my viewer on small pieces of beauty that I manage to find.
Thank you for representing us photographers who live in these kind of places. You are absolutely right..
💯
As someone who used to live in Brooklyn it also bears mentioning that people in places like New York and London have a LOT more exposure to people making art and are a lot more accepting of people taking their photograph. Things can get unpleasant in more rural locations.
Well said
Many thanks for this excellent and "to the point" explanation of yours. This is exactly how I feel when I grab my camera and leave my flat. Greetings from Vienna, Enver
I am aspiring photographer, i have an APSC 56mm lens which is technically a full-frame 85mm lens and I found this video to be a little discouraging to be honest. When I am out on the street taking photos, 85mm allows me to stay out of people's way and be almost inconspicuous to get nice candid shots. I feel like a shorter lens would force me too close to subjects, which if you're shooting in bustling spaces isn't exactly the best idea. Also, forgive me if i'm wrong but isn't bokeh a function of aperture as opposed to focal length? You can shoot at 85mm without stopping down to f2.8 or f1.4, so from a story telling perspective, technically you should be able to add context by shooting at f4, 5.6 or even f8 etc. Further, if you want to fill the frame with more, zoom with your feet and take some steps back so you fit more in the frame, which is what i was taught in terms of basics of photography with fixed focal lengths. But... what do i know, i only really just started, i just feel like this commentary could have been better thought through and presented.
I’ve used 24 35 50 and 85 primes and a 28-75 zoom for street photography. Every option is great. Personally I enjoyed 24mm the least because I prefer shooting street photography in a portraiture style. Use whatever you like and if you want encouragement about using an 85mm for street photography check out Professor Hines instead. Much better photographer and he uses 85mm for his street photography
Why don’t you just use what you have or what you want to use? If you’re getting the results you want then don’t worry about what other people say. These people sometimes say things for content and may true for them but not for tou. Don’t overthink this; it’s just photography; you’re not performing brain surgery
you're absolutely right. Found this video highly condescending
Sounds like we should just let people use what they want to use
Yep, people can do that too.
🤣🤣🤣
To be fair, this video isn't saying people shouldn't use 85mm, just that it may be holding people back from developing their compositions.
@@joelnormann 100%
I Agree.
I have 35mm 50mm and 85mm... I love them all and i like to play with all of them. Photography is art and there is no rules in the art.
Maybe 85mm could make someone lazy but IMO it goes for every lens, someone with a 28mm could simply start spraying shots everywhere without thinking or developing their vision. Choosing a specific lens will limit you to take some specific photos, but it all depends on what you're looking for. Maybe I don't want to capture what you want to capture and that's fine, there is a huge difference between looks and moments in every lens type and there's no wrong takes in street photography, a good moment is a good moment, on a 28mm or a 85mm. I personally walk with both at all times and when I'm using a specific lens I'm looking for completely different moments, it has different skills and feelings to it, your vision has to change depending on your lens. I think the problem is that some people are using 85mm thinking it is a 35mm, seeing "bad" work or not liking the photos they take doesn't make that lens LAZY or SKILLLESS, it means they still have to develop the vision for that specific lens.
I also have a different view on the "not close enough" quote, for me is not distance but story/feeling wise
Thanks for watching! That's completely fair enough - I actually agree with a few of those points. Everyone can shoot as they wish, obviously. Thanks again!
Lol i can definitely do that
Just like the way i do it woth my 85 but then again i prefer 85 😅😂 #sprayandpray
Agree with you very much.
It could also be argued that using a wide angled Les is much lazier because everything is already in focus without effort from the human taking the image. There are no rules.
Lens😂
Thanks so much Mike for including me. I’m honored. Wonderful video.
My pleasure mate. Thank you!
You’re forgetting- that there are people who chooses a long focal length because they are uncomfortable taking that shot when they are close to someone. That’s not lazy - that’s loving photography the way your heart tells you to do.
You can be more candid with a longer lens from across the street than a wider lens up in someone's face.
@@jimmason8502 the only effect on people is that you appear to be creepier: people do notice that you're photographing them, also if you use a longer lens. Better to be up front, come close to the people you're photographing. Or stop doing street photography
@@urbandiscount and it's not creepy to shoot them up close? This argument made zero sense.
In one scenario someone could easily be seen as taking photo of the cityscape and any other thing that are closer to the photographer, and in the other there is no mistaking that this person nearby with a camera pointing at you practically intruding your personal space is taking a picture of you.
There is no doubt that longer focal length would be easier in general for candid photos, that effect is real, there's no real need to deny it just because you prefer or think wider lens takes better pictures.
@@shira_yone I find it more natural if ppl don't really know either it's them or the street in general you'r taking picture of, it's human to feel more confortable when you'r not the center of attention so i find it less offensive.
@@arima7796 indeed.
I feel like _some_ people harping on exclusively using wide for photos of people on the street, are just high on the 'dare' aspect of it. It's risky and it feels good that they did it and got away with invading peoples' personal space in the name of art.
The guy I replied to also ignores the fact that there are many longer focal length lenses (40mm, 50mm, even 75mm or longer on crop sensors) that have a small, if not pancake size lenses. Long focal length doesn't always mean you'll have a freaking telescope glass on your camera, making you look like an absolute buffoon.
I have never really understood why focal length is such a controversial topic within street photography. If a wildlife photo was taken at 50mm, but was still a great photo, no wildlife photographer would say this isnt true wildlife as it isn't telephoto. So why is it such an issue with street. You see it all the time, it's not proper street unless it's 35mm? Nonsense.
I don't think for a second this is your intention, but this will possible make people feel really bad about their photography and they should never have to. Suggesting it is lazy is so harsh and the almost aggressive way James is stating that it is not your skills as a photographer is an awful watch. For me. So unnecessary. If you are using an 85mm because you like compression, how is that any different to using a 35mm because you like it to look natural. That is still the lens doing the work. The real issue is surely that whether an 85mm or 35mm, if you have an interesting subject/ moment/ scene then the photo will be good. If you have a mundane subject/ moment/ scene then the photo will be bad. It's up to the photographer to decide what they take a photo of not the lens or camera.
Lastly I wouldn't necessarily call the natural characteristics of a lenses output a gimmick. And used in the right way an 85mm at 1.8 can still tell a story in the right hands.
I really tried hard not to be bothered by this video but I was defeated.
In conclusion nobody should ever feel bad about how they want to capture the world we live in. Pick what lens you want that suits your vision and your personality and go out and have fun.
Firstly, thanks for watching and for the comment. The discussion is good.
Of course people can use whatever they want whenever they want and I’m happy for people to disagree.
However I do believe my point is valid (or else I wouldn’t have made the video). A wider focal length makes getting street photos that are good, harder to do. Therefore pushing your abilities and or making progress.
Not saying that’s fact and I’m 100% right. But it’s a theory I strongly believe. Again, thanks for watching. I don’t mean to cause distress to anyone… but seeing the comments from other people and DMs I’ve had, it looks like many people agree or are intrigued by these ideas. I wouldn’t make up the script if I didn’t think there was something worthwhile sharing.
Have a great day ✌🏻
50,85+ is definitely lazy and garbage for street photos
@@billybolang7052 Street photography is "lazy" and "garbage."
this is so stupid... focal length nazis are not cool sorry...@@MikeChudley
I would agree with you. Take David Yarrow who’s made some incredible fine art work of wildlife photography by using a wide angle lens, although some shots were taken with a remote trigger, but his work stood out amongst wildlife photographers. I think the same could be said if a street photographer used a longer focal length.
I do agree that technology does not make a good photographer. A good photographer takes good photos be it on a 28mm or an 85mm lens. Use whatever lens you like and feel comfortable with. Do not be put off by people telling you that your kit is ruining your photography. Learn what your lenses allow you to create and if you are happy with the results you get then that is surely all that matters.
Yep. 100% 👌🏻 but also don’t fall for the idea that you can’t improve, just because you’re happy with the result. Happy or not - progress can always be made. That’s my opinion. Thanks for watching! Appreciate the comment.
An interesting thought. But Saul Leiter, the grandfather of modern colour street photography shot almost solely on two focal lengths, 85 and 150. They are different lenses and have their own character, just as the 35mm has its own character. My current all time favourite lens for street is 135mm f2 from canon. A 30 year old lens. But as I mentioned it’s an interesting thought and sure to provoke much reaction and discussion, which in itself is a good thing.
Yep, totally understand. I think my main point, as condensed as I can write, would be - I don't think it's advised for a beginner to stick with an 85mm (or any tele) and call it a day. There is so much more to learn about street photography and techniques that fancy bokeh and compression might distract newbies from seeing past that.
I love that Canon 135!… oooooeeee! but I do have to stop myself because of the beautiful aesthetic. If all my images come out beautiful, then to me that's a red flag.
Maybe don't use a clickbait title to start with and that might add to your credibility. It is doubtful that 85mm is "ruining" people's street photography. I am glad you mentioned Saul Leiter because he pretty much completely dismantles your entire theory. You kept mentioning fancy bokeh, I'm not sure where you got the idea bokeh was fancy. It is a compositional tool just like any other and it can be used to highlight or hide aspects of an image, thus simplifying it. Again as Leiter is a great example, using bokeh and other similar aspects in an image such as blurry rain streaked windows isn't laziness by any means. Somewhere in the comments you said " I don't think it's advised for a beginner to stick with an 85mm (or any tele) and call it a day" perhaps you could have expounded on that and made it clearer in your video. My advice is that people should challenge themselves to use unfamiliar focal lengths and then they will often grow as a photographer so that a 24mm or an 85mm in their hands is equally effective. I am glad we have people like you who are the arbiters of "true street photography". You will look back on this video and realize how pompous you sounded in the surety of your ego. I love your photographic work and hope you are able to grow in other areas.
excellent comment
85 mm is my first lens and I like it very much. I love taking the real emotions and facial expressions of people on the street, and with the distance offered by 85 mm lens, people won't notice that they are your subject. And also, it's not laziness, I think with 85 mm, you really need to step back a distance to get the right angle, most of the time, I am challenge to walk fast or run just to get the right distance to get that subject into my frame.
If you want to be extraordinary, don't limit yourself to common standards and norms, be different from other's ways.
long lenses are creepsville
07:03 " forget everything said up until this point, I've been full of shit, and the title is clickbait."
100%
I fell for the click bait 😂
So your issue is with people who shoot with 85mm whom you don't know but justified with people using 85mm whom you know and are popular😂
i remember older photographers complaining about how digital was ruining photography. you constantly hear natural light photographers talk about how much better they are than those who use ofc. then you have the ones who complain because sooo many photographers shoot wide open and how that takes no skill. unbelievable how much people have to say about other people minding their business doin their own thing
A lens has never RUINED anyone's photography. A good photo is entirely subjective. This is nothing more than a bias towards what you like to personally see in street photography. And what you happen to like may be better suited to a different focal length. That doesn't mean an 85 can't create photos with that same feel. Creativity, vision, practice makes for good photos. What you put on the end of your camera does not change that. 35, 85, or anything else.
I shot with a X100v for a couple of years and sold it.
Turns out I'm a long lens type of guy.
The 35mm to a 75mm is a totally different tool.
The images that shout to me are the long lens type.
Wide just doesn't cut it.
As an equestrian sports photographer I shoot at the long end between 300-400mm.
So 85mm is wide to me.
The choice of subject with the long lens is as much about the skill as with the wide lens.
Have a great year.
Be lucky stay safe.
This has long since crossed the line in which we just enjoy people's art, or we don't. This is overthinking it harder than woodpecker lips. Maybe this is why I don't get along with other photographers lol. Like my photos, or don't. There is a huge element of gatekeeping here, and it's toxic. "Walking down the street at 1.4 isn't street photography, it's lazy". I hope you watched this video after you made it to hear what you sound like. lol. Do you always stop to analyze the photo to determine if the photographer has the bona fides you deem necessary for you to enjoy it? Must they have always spent enough time putting in work your "proper" way before using hardware to do something for them?
You mentioned Saul Leiter, I think it's important to note however that his photography (to me at least) isn't traditional "smell the street, make the viewer feel like they're there" street photography, it's more sort of abstract street photography. Or maybe just abstract photography that happens to happen in the street, I haven't decided.
Yes he uses long focal lengths, but he uses that compression in combination with reflections, water/rain on windows, frames within a frame, lots of negative space, obfuscating people's faces, large dominant shapes and colors, shadows, etc. to get an almost painting like compositions and abstractness. He isn't out there taking literal/straightforward photos of people or street portraits.
That's why Saul was able to use long focal lengths and produce amazing work, but if HCB or Bruce Gilden used one it would diminish the impact of their more traditional street photos.
Don't forget Ernst Haas. His compositions, like Leiter, are also abstract-y painting like (interesting to note these 2 men studied painting before). Seems like there are 2 major approached in street photography. One is the classic documentary/photojournalism style, done by HCB, Lee Friedlander, Robert Frank, Eggleston etc. And the other is what I called "fine/abstract art". Like Leiter. When I started learning street photography, I tried to stick to 50mm or 35mm whenever possible. Then I discovered Ralph Gibson's work, which is also a fan of telephoto (most likely since film days). 85mm or longer allows you to capture specific details easily, not always about bokeh, though.
The 85mm is impressive and I think that it takes a lot of work to be able to capture a photo with it because everything is too tight. Yes, the 1.4 and the 1.8 help a lot, but when you've taken a bad photo it shows, no matter what you do or use as gear. For me an 85mm is a difficult lens to work with especially when you are visiting a new place. If you are shooting in the same environment over and over again then the 85mm could open a new door in photography for you.
You can use any lens for street photography. Forget rules and boundaries
Could've titled it "Why you should focus more on composition than technical capabilities of your lens" but we all know it won't generate as much clout.
If someone decides to use a 1.4 lens instead of any another aperture, it’s just his choice and preference, doesn’t mean he is lazy. (Don’t be arrogant) not everyone likes your style of photography, but that doesn’t mean you are, lazy, stupid, etc. it’s just your style. Peace ✌️
thank you
Exactly… Calling people lazy because they don’t do what you do is unbelievably arrogant
Agreed 💯
it's about the length, not the aperture
I think a factor to consider is how the photographer sees the world. For example two people can see the same well dressed person, the first goes 'hey great outfit' (35mm) the second says 'I love your necklace' (85m). Its's not that the 35mm didn't notice the necklace, it was simply one piece of a total picture. In turn, the first thing the 85mm noticed was the outfit, yet it was the necklace that drew their eye and was the reason the outfit stood out. The reason many of us became photographers is to share with others what 'we' see.
Thank you… The arrogance of buddy to call people lazy for not seeing what he sees is astounding
point is, long lenses often are a cop out for people who want to shoot documentary street photos but don't have the guts for the full experience.
I think any focal length can be used. There’s no laws. No real rules. It’s all art and subjective
man the mental gymnastics involved to think that your gear is somehow less responsible for an image when you’re using a different focal length is impressive 😅
I'm happy to realize pretty quickly that the video is actually about something else then I was fearing. The only reason I go for 85mm for my street isn't for guiding the eye to the subject using bokeh, but being able to keep more distance to the subject while shooting 😅 ...therefore happy to hear that nobody seems to feel like somethings wrong with that :-)
You got it! 👌🏻
The "correct" lens for any and every subject is simply the one the photographer finds right for them - I love my 85, I equally love my 50, 24, 200 etc, etc. Your comment is so true, and restricting street photography to simply 35mm restrict the photographers vision.
I had the same thought 😅. While I also don’t feel that using bokeh is “lazy”, it’s just different and not HIS style. No reason to put it down.
My reason for wanting to use an 85mm in street is that I’m a 2 meter tall male and people deeefinitely notice me wielding a camera if I am anywhere close.
I'd rather have a photographer take a photograph with me prominently in it up close, so I can interact and maybe refuse? Photographing people from far away takes away their agency.
Since when does 35mm not produce bokeh??? Its all about how close you are to your subject. If your subject is not too close even with 85 doesn't give you unealistic bokeh
boom
Great video! I often hear street photographers talk about how you need to shoot with wider lengths but I find this a bit dismissive of the results that each and every focal length can create. Shooting wide is great and can get great results, the same is for telephoto. People should work with both imo.
Great video from start to finish Mike, I’m guilty for using the 85mm in some situations I shouldn’t. That being said The 85mm is as good as the person using it and I think it’s a great street lens, the wider angle of 35mm and 24mm for street is just another way of shooting street. Yes the compression of the 85mm is the core reason people love it but that’s not a bad thing. Your work has progressed ten fold and it’s great see you sharing that Knowledge! Looking forward to seeing more 🤙🏼
The 85mm is as good as the person using it. That’s 100% true 👌🏻 thanks for watching mate and I hope you’re doing well out in Aus! 🙌🏻
@@MikeChudley thanks dude! It’s a dream! I’m actually currently trying to get my hands on a x100v really want to use one!
@@Opticalwander Getting one that is priced accordingly is difficult too haha.
@@MikeChudley agreed! Might have to borrow one for now.
A bit of a convoluted way to say "Your composition matters more than the effects you're applying". Good photography is always an interplay of composition, subject matter, lighting and awareness. That's stuff you need to learn by trying and being critical of your work. If you don't have that, it doesn't matter what lens you are using.
Yep, very much agree
Meh, I shoot a lot of my street photography at 135mm. I wish to remain unseen when I shoot. Unobtrusive. Like you said, I feel it makes for more candid, realistic shots when the subject doesn’t know I’m there. The bokeh is meaningless to me. The only reason I’m shooting at 1.8 is to maximize how much light I’m gathering at night. Daytime I’m often shooting at f/4, 5.6 or higher. Also, I am an extreme introvert, so shooting telephoto saves me from having to stick my camera in peoples’ faces and create confrontation, which, hey if someone’s into that good on them, but it’s not my style.
There are a lot more factors for using a longer length in street photography that were sadly overlooled here. For one, not all people are comfortable at the same level when it comes to face to face interaction. There are other factors like race, language that also come into equation when you do street photography. Someone who is not native and fluent in English may not be able to instantly build a camaraderie through banter with a native English speaking person. Language barrier is huge and hard to understand if you never experienced it. Also if a brown person is holding a camera on the face, other races may not feel the same comfort level that she/he may experience from the same race. These are hard truths that we have to acknowledge. So, longer lenses help to overcome barriers like these and still helps to continue and enjoy the art of street photography.
The size of that person that you captured next to the billboard will actually vary depending on the compression. If you were to keep the billboard almost the same size in your frame, the size of that person might be drastically different when using different focal lengths. And it might be for better or worse.
It's one thing to encourage people not to be restricted by their equipment, but another thing to totally deny the effect of your equipment on your photos.
I agree the temptation of shallow depth of field could hinder many beginner photographers' progress.
But some of the composition techniques you guys mentioned are also frequently over-utilized to the point it feels kind of cliche, just like the unrealistically extremely contrasty black and white scene, the over-saturation of colors.
Is it better to be reliant on your post-processing "skills of a photographer", than to optimally choose and utilize your lens which you could not take any photos without one?
To just highlight the drawbacks of the long focal length seems, ironically, too focus on a certain technical aspect of your tools.
Every composition skill/tool could be overused, but it doesn't mean you could avoid shooting cliche photos by just avoiding one of them.
And to make good use of these tools and skills are all "skills of photographers" imo.
Well said. The speakers sort of end up falling down their own trap here
85mm has an specific look, if you like it go for it. It's not lazy.
This is the "No true Scotsman" fallacy applied to photography. No lens is advertised as "Street" or "sports" or "portraits" but rather we the photographers place these labels on these tools. I notice carpenters don't sit around arguing how they build furniture only with one type of hammer and anyone that doesn't can't be called one. If you take a picture on the street, it's street photography.
Just because the photo has been taken in the street, doesn’t means it’s good.
I’m sure great carpenters use specific tools.
@@MikeChudley That's not what we're discussing here, because "good" is highly subjective depending who you ask. My point is I can make a street image using a camera marketed to wedding photographers in the 60s the same as I would with a modern digital camera. To fixate on a specific lens as the only appropriate tool for a form of art is a bit elitist IMO.
As someone who loves the 85mm, I came here with a really defensive stance but I think the points actually make a lot of sense to me. Especially the point about sharp photos with a blurred background, anyone with the gear can take those photos. But I still love the abstractness of zooming in to smaller details and I guess I'll be using both smaller and larger focal distances.
Thanks for the comment! That was pretty much my entire point. People can use whatever they want but I want to be clear, that blurry background and funky bokeh is the tool used. Not the eye of the photographer. But also, it’s not that deep in the end haha just have fun
they're absolute nonsense
I have to disagree with this nonsense. No lens focal length will ruin your photography (including street photography) as long as you are enjoying using it and taking pictures that you like and love. Either candid street photography or asking someone in the street directly for their photo, all is good as long as that is the thing that we want to take pictures of. Even if the photo are blurry, or some random composition, as long as the photographer like it, it doesn't matter, as it's subjective and intimately personal happiness, let alone lens choices.
exactly my thoughts. Condescending nonsense
Just a touch clickbait-y, but some genuinely good insights, supplemented with the partner video and the books you mentioned (long live Saul Leiter). I'm a huge fan of 85mm, but I agree that it's not the ideal glass to be lugging around when you want to be moving around, agile-like, grabbing snaps on the street, finding those serendipitous moments, framing and zooming with your feet, and seeing how much proximity to real humans you can stomach before it gets a bit too close for comfort. I prefer my Fujifilm X100V as well as my Sony A7C with either the 24mm, 35mm or 40mm prime. Recenty, however, I found a fun combo: Sigma 28-70mm! This is a compact zoom, extremely light and bright, the ideal tool for maximum possibilities when cruising the city. You see something close, bam - you're there with the 35. You see something further away, zip - you're there with the 70. It's beautiful. At any rate, I love your style, very hands-on, pragmatic, down to earth - and you've got good talent behind the box. Keep up the great work and videos!
85mm is a focal length like any other. You can shoot it wide open or not. That is a choice and can work ... or not.
The only thing that can ruin your street photography is the dumbass behind the camera. ... and youtubers, I guess.
I want to love street photography, I think its fascinating and can provide some incredible photos. But I also never do it, for the reason that the City I live in just doesnt really offer many unique things, or subjects to use in the photos. Pretty much plain city streets with no artwork or anything to use in the photos. And I understand you gotta be creative, thats what makes it so difficult. And ive spent countless days testing as many different angles and compositions as possible, yet still finding the images very boring due to location. I wish one day I can try street photography in a bigger city that has more to offer! Great video btw.
I came to watch the video thinking "but I don't even have a 85mm" but the discussion is really good! The same could be said using 28mm as point of reference. Some people think just because is wide and filled up with elements, it is a good photo already - which is not.
I generally don’t make comments, but be careful not to over generalize. The finger can get pointed right back at you. I’ve had a dark room in my house and grew up shooting only film. It would be ridiculous for me to accuse you of being lazy because you don’t go into a dark room and develop film and do test strips with an enlarger before printing, but rather go grab a digital camera and take your photos like it was a machine gun hoping that something will be your ACE of the group of thousands that were shot within that day. Do you see how my over generalization is as guilty as calling an 85 mm lens lazy??? Sometimes the shot calls for a particular focal length and just works. I have a film photo taken at the LAX airport where I was shooting a contextualized photo compressing the scene of 1/4 mile of traffic with a traffic COP trying to work the cars into the airport while my frame contains foreground, mid, and background while shooting with a 200 mm lens. Is that lazy and no longer considered street photography? My scene had layering just as if I were shooting a 28 mm lens in a very close proximity scene. It’s how you use the lens. It’s not the length of the lens. The opposite could be true that a 35 mm lens is much more lazy than trying to shoot a street photograph while using a 12 mm lens. It’s just kind of a ridiculous topic. I know what you were trying to convey. I just think you were barking up the wrong tree when it comes to artistic expression. Cheers!!!
I didn’t agree with what was said in the video, but it was interesting-I use a Sony 85 mm 1.4 and it’s my favorite street photography lens as I don’t want to get close to my subjects.🙂
I use a 85mm. It’s not something I use more than my 35 or 24mm, but the compression of the glass does add another layer that you can’t get from the other two . if you do it right , you can compose images that can add life to your photos .
An interesting video Mike. I did get a bit of a chuckle though when after introducing your thesis, at 1:45, with the use of a photo that used a pan to keep the subject of you photo in focus with the rest of the frame obscured by motion blur. In doing so you have created an image that no passer by actually experienced and is completely dependent on a camera function, not unlike using a narrow depth of field to isolate a subject.
Haha very good. And I appreciate the comment! I almost agree completely, but it still required the user to move and create the image. Granted, it required tech - like a slow shutter speed. Which in my opinion is more intentional than sticking a lens at f1.8. Thanks Steve ✌🏻
Your point about wider lenses offering capabilities of classic street photography is very well taken. Also wider lenses force you to think more comprehensively about the composition of the entire image. I think though there is room for longer lenses and bokeh in street photography. (Does a paint brush ruin an oil painting? After all, it's so "lazy" to use a brush for your oil painting.) A lens that does compression and background blur is a tool. It might not get you classic street photography, but in the right hands, it can craft beautiful images. Simply adding background blur to an average image can easily result in just another average image.
I recently just started shooting with my 85 a lot more, always went out with the 20-60 if I was just walking around town but I felt that the zoom capability was making me lazy, switching to the 85 has made me be more intentional with composition because I don’t have that zoom to rely on. So I guess it just depends how you look at it 📸
I tried my Fuji 56mm crop (85mm equivalent) for a while on the street but it was horribly habit-forming (seeking bokeh, too little focus on backgrounds). When I switched to 16-55mm zoom (24-84mm equivalent), maybe a third of my shots were at full zoom but that was slowly reducing throughout a six month period. Now I'm almost always on 33mm (50mm equivalent).
I find the 33mm harder work, insofar as it requires strong composition (thoughtful foreground and background, and clever light) to avoid pics looking flat and plain. But it still feels like the 'right' focal length for me. And I love how it's just about zoomy enough to produce fully flattering portraits.
I was going to go out with my 135mm tomorrow, but now I've watched this I might just stay indoors.
4:10 OMG soooo gooood.
Great video, you're a smart guy !
Like your channel a lot whilst catching up on some older vids
Thanks for sharing
Thank you! I love that photo, glad you've been enjoying the videos.
There's certain 'ugliness' on a street that i need to hide or blur out. Also you want to keep the distance due to moving vehicle and people😂
People are getting way too focused on the whole "telling a story"
I'm a photographer because I'm a visual person, I like how things look and manifest. I don't need a story behind a shot, I want to create images that look good to me, it's just a hobby for me personally, I create images because I like looking at them.
Taking photos because you like looking at them is a great reason to take photos! Enjoy 👌🏻
My thoughts are not personally targeted towards your photography. In my personal opinion and with my personal street photography I’m looking for more, more ways to improve on my work, more ways to keep it moving forward.
Just my honest opinion, and it doesn’t have to impose on anyone else’s.
my thoughts exactly
Social media is flooded with pictures taken on 85mm and it’s been boring seeing the similar pictures that doesn’t portray much. When done nicely, it’s a good story telling focal length.
Imagine picking up a book and it’s the same style, all shot on the 85mm. It would be certainly unpleasant to look at.
With the current modern enhancement of cameras, people tend to stray away from confrontation in photography, at least from what I’ve noticed and seen.
85mm or the 70-200mm, standing far away and spray away.
Capture moments but also showcase the environment as well as the emotions.
Yeah I agree with that! The best street photos in my opinion are closer and are taken within the scene. Not 2 streets away at 200mm. Thanks for watching and glad you liked it.
1000% agree .. 85mm above is garbage for street photos
I love my 85 and being a bit shy it gives me space. I use a Nikon Z6ii and I'm more noticeable than users of Leica or Fujifilm. Having said that I agree with Kenneth Hinse's take. Lenses don't come with labels. Use what makes you comfortable and use the focal length which produces the images you want to want to present to the world.
You are wise beyond your years... I just found your channel and it's refreshing to see a young photographer with such clean presentation. The knowledge you present is amazing and thought provoking. Even an old photographer like myself can learn different perspectives from your videos. A pleasant change from most young you tubers that start their videos with, "Whats uuuuup people?". When I start a video that begins like that, I close it and move on to another one. Period... Every time!
This really means a lot! Thank you for the kind words ✌️
I’ve always found a similar situation when I’m shooting street with the low f numbers I don’t feel it works. I do think the isolation aspects of the 85mm to be an important tool to have though, and is actually a really good focal length to be able to catch intimate moments but also gives you the distance and space to do so.
Oh you went on to say this haha I should have waited until the end of the video. Thanks and subbed my friend
@@TheMoodChasingPhotographer haha thanks for watching mate!
7:22 don’t you think this could mean close in other ways, not just physically close?
yep, it could be interpreted in that way. I talk about this in one of my other videos as well. Thanks for the comment!
I'll still give this vid a thumbs up as it a brave and bold POV, but keep in mind its ur POV and not fact. I see where your coming from but I think what the intention behind the shot determines what lens one chooses. I also think each photographer has their own quirks that may explain why they choose a particular lens for street photography. For example you might be shy and just don't want to get that close to a person to capture them or u just want the shot punched in for emphasis. if the person shooting just sits back and all they get is a person separated from the background with no other detail but the persons has a pensive expression it wouldnt hit the same on a 35 or 50m. I would say to call that lazy might've been too strongly worded as its just a different way to capture someone up close, but nice way to tackle it without pissing everyone off.
As someone who gravitates towards the long end for street photography, this was an uncomfortable watch, but some really good points made. I do like the subject-isolation that the 85mm offers and, as you say, it doesn't have to be shot wide open all the time!
Maybe a good exercise for someone finding their feet in street photography would be to slap on an 18-55 / 24-105 and just try a week of shooting at each of the classic focal lengths. Tape the zoom ring down if necessary! Or even just use the zoom for an extended period and then review the pictures and see which focal lengths they found gave the best / most satisfying results for them personally.
I just got back from a trip to the Middle-East. I took my X-T5 with Fuji's little 15-45 zoom (23-67 equiv), mostly for its light weight and compact size. Big mistake for me; I found the lack of reach at the long end frustrating. Horses for courses, I guess.
whats the name of the book that appears in the beginning of the video?
Interesting thoughts. Some cracking shots too. What's the photo book you keep showing clips of?
I think any photography should be judged based on whether it is a good image or not. What it was shot with really should not matter. And lets be real. Without a lens a camera is useless. We are all "relying on our gear" to make a good image whether it is 8mm or 800mm,....or a pinhole. And I have shot street photos on a pinhole medium format film camera.
And street photography now should not have to look like street photography from the 40s.
Oh and any street photos shot on a TLR back in the day were between 70 and 85mm but that is another discussion.
Fun fact. The reason most of the street photography back in the day was shot on 50mm was not because of some attachment to perspective. It was because it was the only focal length with built in frame lines on the old Leica III.
People shot 50mm so they didn't have to buy a separate viewfinder from Leica. I shit you not.
what 85 mm lens was in the video? what a big glass!
This video lead me to tell TH-cam to not suggest your channel anymore
What's the book at 4.42? @Mike
Harry Gruyaert- Between Worlds 👍🏻
What I meant is that the title should be "why an 85 lens COULD ruin..." and not "why an 85 ruins"... the speech in the vidéo is clear about it so please modify the title even if it does not grab attention to the same level
Great video Mike. Love that you had James in it too. Love his work and hope he gets more subscribers because of this video.
Yeah James knows his stuff!
i use my 85mm for portrait shoots or family shoots exclusively. i can’t afford the 35mm i want but i invested in a 50mm when i got my body and i love it. it’s perfect for street and it feels so natural. i probably would love 35mm as well but maybe one day i’ll get to try it.
If something looks good. Use it.
Good photos are good photos regardless of the focal length. I know the video titles are a way of attracting views but geez tone down the drama. It's "RUINING" youtube.
Love to the commenters who left reminders for others that your photography style is not worse, lazy, or unskilled simply because it is different from another's preferences.
I get the point and partially agree.... BUT, there's a flaw in the case you're making... because when we look at something we focus on it, mentally,, while NOT focusing on the rest of the environment in that moment... call this "psychological f1.4 - f2.8".... the lens & setting your saying is "ruining your street photography" is making this PSYCHOLOGICAL phenomenon a visual one. This is at the core of what it does... it ALSO does what you're saying.... but that's secondary. When we spend time looking at a photo for multiple elements of support, them yes, the bokeh gives you less detail to explore... it's all just about intent.
This video should be titled as "Why subjective photography is RUINING your Street Photography". everything depends on perspective.. Story can be created and captured with a 85mm too.
It certainly can. Did you watch the whole video?
@@MikeChudley sure bro, that's y liked the video and suggesting about the title only. I got your point. and you are correct.😇
As someone who just within the past week purchased their first camera in 15 years and an 85 1.4 lens with the intent of street photography (to start with), I was reeled in by the title bait with concern. Before actually watching the video, and due to my lack of knowledge and experience, I had already begun questioning my choice of lens, but once I finished watching, I feel that your points are all very valid, and they opened my mind quite a lot as to what it is I should be doing, relying on, and paying attention to when I go out there. Thanks for the video!
I actually think 85 is closer representation to what your eyes see when it comes to your subject and its relation (compression) to the background. Although the 35 probably captures a wider scene like your eyes do. So it’s a selection between “realism” vs. inclusion. But thanks for the video. I did not know shooting streets with 85 was a thing.
I agree with your point a lot! I tested 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm in the same shot thru my viewfinder, and moved my head aside to see "what I actually see", and the 85mm was easily the closest to how I perceive an object. I also think for people that doubt what they need or want to use, the 50 stays the easiest "safe" bet until they find out what if they want more or less in their frame, or they ultimately find out the 50mm does all they need.
@@Deniot92for me, even using zooms, I don't myself using 35 and 85 most, but if I could only have one prime it would be a 50. Fortunately I have, like, 5 50's, so it's no problem. Use a 40mm 2.8 and 90mm 2.8 macro, because they're lighter and better for varied use.
what is the f number of the lens
If I want to extract a subject out of the scene. i telephoto. If I want a flat storyboard scene. I wide angle
Yep, totally get that!
What's the book at the start of the video? Thanks
Ernst Haas, New York in Colour. Thanks for watching.
Super interesting topic, and an eye opening video for me. I'm 5 years into my photography/street photography journey, and naturally, I started with a zoom lens, then went to a 50mm, then 85mm, and now...this year I started using film. I noticed a huuuge difference in the way I shoot with my 50mm on my full frame film camera, vs the 50 and 85mm with my cropped digital camera. The film is closer to what my eyes see, which feels so much more natural and has been super enjoyable to shoot with, and also, I've almost liked my film street work more than my digital because of that. As a more introverted shooter, I am a fan of the longer focal length, but there really is something to be said about the "natural true to eye" feel in photos, that hits home differently. Great video man!
Wow this is great ti read man! Thanks for that comment - glad you enjoyed the video 👌🏻
A true 50mm is wonderful!
Well presented video. I think, personally, to say an image is bad because someone uses gear with higher specs than someone else is borderline ignorant. A great image evokes an emotional response. Be it interest, excitement, curiosity, whatever. If bokeh, or a razor thin FOV helps the image convey the photographer's intent, I'm well fine with that. I myself have only recently forced myself to use nothing below f8 as an exercise in composition and technique. That said, I just felt it was time to update the look of my images and change my approach. Saying that any particular way of shooting with a certain type of gear is lazy?.... In the end, I shoot for myself and I share with my family and friends and a small subsection of the photography community. I don't ever think I will be proud of an image but then wince and think 'I was lazy here. I really could have, and should have, made it harder on myself to convey this emotion'.
"A great image evokes an emotional response." I realized that a picture can evolve over time from being bad to good. A picture of a house I lived in as a child, and a picture of my grandmother were not particularly good when they were taken, but evoke an emotional response now. From this I learn that I should probably take a lot of pictures now, which can increase in value over time.
I 💯disagree that long focal lengths and shallow DoF is both lazy and bad street photography as you say. Photography is whatever you want it to be and the images we all produce should reflect each of our own styles. Trying to conform to a pre conceived look is not doing yourself justice. Especially 28mm or 35mm. I shoot street photography for 12 years and I used every focal length. I have settled on 105mm for street. Remember "ability’\" has absolutely nothing to do with gear or focal length.
For new photographers who pick up an 85mm and shoot a person crossing the street at 1.8 is boring, it’s low effort, anyone can do it.
Shooting a scene at 28mm with multiple elements composed well that tells a story and all works cohesively is FAR for interesting but VERY difficult to do.
Using a 85mm at 1.4 definitely does not require the same ability as a wider focal length. Totally different types of awareness, observational skills, timing and storytelling.
However, I did show you some examples of 85mm being used well. It can be done! But most of the time.. it’s done poorly by people who think a bokehlecious photos is “street photography”.
And I used to be that 85mm dude. But I learnt more, pushed myself to get closer and therefore progressed.
Obviously this is all personal taste.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👌
@@MikeChudley I still 100% disagree with your generalization. I understand there are different types of photographers and different looks. All are viable. Calling people lazy for using an 85mm is plain wrong. One could use the same term for someone that just points a 35mm at a scene and clicks away. Maybe insult people less and offer constructive opinions instead. Moving from 85mm to 35mm is not a progression of skills. It's simply a change.
I'm implying that attempting to achieve a great image on 35mm and stepping away from a single subject bokeh 85mm is definitely a progression of skills. That doesn't mean 85mm doesn't require skill to get great images, this video covers some great examples of it being done well. But my opinions on this topic are for beginners who want to improve. Those orange and teal urban photographs that flooded instagram in 2018 are definitely easy and beginner level photographs. Historic, timeless work from the greatest of street photographers typically seem to be 28/35mm work.
I would like to add, this isn't personal hate towards anyone. If we had this conversation in a coffee shop I bet it would feel different, no passive aggression or harsh disagreements, these are just our opinions. Have a great day,@@RonEMarks
I like my 85 mm for street photography, I am not so confident yet and I like to stay a bit far from people and catch their emotions. I have a pov video on my channel if you want to have a look.
I will try next time to use my 30mm 1.4 but going to close to people I feel like I'm invading their space, maybe I have to build up more courage.
Sounds like you’re trying to convince people of what is art and what type of art they should like. Are we supposed to be sheep and like specific things?
I agree, the idea that we should all use the “Traditional” gear so all compositions look the same is nonsense. This isn’t being triggered, it’s logic.
You see this gatekeeping from a lot of creators. If you are not using a wide angle then it's not "real" street photography, which is just complete nonsense.
I use 50mm on fullframe and often feels too tight, but i use it anyway. I want to take pictures as close as possible and small aperture usually.
If I'm using a prime then I use 50mm (equiv) it not too close and not too far, if I'm using the pancake zoom then look at trimming to composition...I've never understood the story part of photography as to me that is videography and photography is about a small moment in time, a bit sized morsal hence the the term snap-shot...
I love this colab James Parsons is an amazing TH-camr/photographer. The perspective of two greats!
I am thinking about the longer focal length, because it helps to keep the scene uninterrupted by the photographer's presence. I shoot with full frame equivalent 35 and 84, and I'm thinking about 135.
I don't mean to sound hostile in this response but:
I don't even like 85 and I can't really agree with this. Just shoot with what you like and thinks looks good. Your images that have everything in focus and no subject separation might not be appealing in the same way you find the look that 85 gives as unappealing. I don't think it's right to say "how to improve as street photographers" when people intentionally want that look in their images. Improve to a technical style that is more appealing to you? Or the person taking the photo? There is nothing objective about street photography, so why try make it as if having everything in focus is objectively superior and call people lazy for shooting how they like?
For context for street I use M43 system with a 30mm equiv shooting at f5.6 almost all the time. I just think we should let people shoot with what they like is all. 85 dof adds onto street photography, not ruin it.
Hey, yep I don't disagree with any of that. However, I believe lots of people fall into the trap of getting stuck at that 85mm bokeh shot. Because it's easier than trying to compose something at 28/35mm.
Perhaps I'm being over critical because I just simply love street photography. People can of course shoot with whatever they like, I thought that goes without saying.
But the very best street and documentary photographers don't rely on the hardware to tell great stories, they capture moments that tell great stories, and for me, that's the goal of street photography. To document life and tell stories.
We could go around in circles debating opinions here, of course you can tell stories at 85mm, like I mention in my video. But either way, I appreciate the comment and sharing your opinion!
Started with an 85mm on a SLR .. now I shoot with a 28mm fixed lens point and shoot.. when I shot 85mm I was trying to shoot a “subject” now I try to shoot a “scene” and my street photography has improved so much.
Just to clarify or perhaps dispel a myth. Compression effect is not a function of the focal lenght of the lens but the distance from the camera to subject to background. Telephoto lenses do not create compression per se, it is just that you tend to shoot from a greater distance. You can get the same effect by shooting with a 35mm lens from a distance and then cropping the image (although image quality may suffer). You also wont get the Bokeh or blurry background as much with the 35 even shooting wide open but that is different to 'compression' and is a function of aperture, focal length and subject distance.
This is a great comment about using a shallow depth of field, thank you!
While I love that you are not afraid to express your oppinion, it all depends on the person behind the camera. If you use an 85 as a 35, you will get the super blurry background. But at that point it might be more of a portait shot. My favourite photographer right now is Pat Kay and his favourite lens for street is an 85. He rarely shoots super tight portraits of people, but rather looks further away to give more context. I can highly recomend his stuff.
But all controversies aside, i agree with several points in this video. Great quality content as usual Mike!
Thanks mate, yeah I shared some examples of it being done well. It’s all in the approach and what you want to gain from it. If you’re a good photographer, I’m sure you can use anything right?
@@MikeChudley Exactly!
But, what about angular lenses? I think in this case is worst.The use and abuse of the angular lens, taking the picture very close to the subject, from a low angle, make a perfect street photo. It doesn´t matter if the subject is interestng and, of course, there is no composition. Becasue the drama is created by the deformationof the image. In fact, I saw a lot of famous (here in Spain) street photographers during a workshop, proud of telling you that they don´t think: low point of view, from the hip o lower, angular lens (28mm, GRIII), very close to the subject, black and white, and the photo is correct. In that workshop, organized by ricoh, I tried to use 50mm, and all the comments where related with this situation: "Use angular", "change your point of view to a lower",... I agree with you, the lens is a tool and you have to know how to use it, but I think the angular lenses are ruining the street photography.
Polarising street photography with 28mm/35mm/50mm focal length is limiting the ability of the photographer to capture a for her/him great (street) photograph. I like the 85mm/105mm focal length also for street photographs. Even my best photographs of the streets of Paris is performed with a 200-500mm zoom lens. This create a different look instead of the copy of the street photographs of other (street) photographers. Better to educate the audience that they should look for/discover their preferred focal length for street photography.
This video spoke my mind and explains why these high compression photos miss out on capturing a whole scene rather than just a subject
I don't agree with you sir, an 85mm is another focal length and another way of seeing the scenes just like with a 35mm, it all depends on how it's used.
I agree that someone picture crossing the street with an 85mm and little PDC is not street photography but an 85mm is useful to capture gestures, feelings, expressions...another way of seeing.
Thanks.
I agree to some extend but verything depends on this what you want to show with your photos and it's subjective as definition of street photography is quite broad. I like to shoot with 85mm but recently I use more 50mm or 35mm but I still utilize quite heavily f1.4 because I enjoy subject separation. Like everything, street photograpy is evolving and its definition maybe didn't change but tools that we can use, yet. We are not longer limited to manual wide angle lenses which were easier to use when AF was not a thing (which in lens with shallow depth of field us handy) and to 20 something frames in film. We need to also drop the mindset that the way how street photogrophy was done in 70' 80' or even earlier is the only right way. There are challenges while using every focal lenght and discussion which way of showing how you see everyday life through the lens is like discussion which football team is better, it will never end :D.
I have to say I'm guilty of this with my 85mm, the 85mm has been my favourite lens for quite a while and I assume that's because I find it the easiest. Recently I've not been using it as much and I've been using my 35mm a lot to try and improve my photography and straight away found it so much harder to get photos I'm happy with. You see all these people on Instagram taking pictures of things like a bike seat at 1.4 and there's loads of bokeh, they get so many likes for it but I bet if they had to use something like a 35mm at 5.6 then they would struggle their asses off. Anyway, great video and I look forward to the next ✌️
i consider pictures of buildings "landscape photography" suited for wide lenses. if you are brave and figured out how to take candid shots of people straight on, or on an angle, with the 85mm, then great. otherwise, forget it, been there, done that, and it sucks. you end up with pics of the backs of peoples bodies, or shots that look like smartphone pics. the best shots i have taken have been mostly at 200 to 300mm. you can shoot across the street in oppostion. these shots had great separation and bokeh that retained context, plus the front of peoples heads showing their facial expressions. certainly a 28 would capture the mood of a crowd that you are in, which is great, but i suggest long lenses when not in a crowd situation (grand central station, night club, party, etc.). thanks.