Hi, I just found out about your channel today from Steve and Jordan over at the Cantonese Couple and I just wanted to leave a big thank you for what you have been doing for the cantonese language. I am originally from HK but immigrated to Canada at a young age and so I would say I am technically a CBC haha. I am fluent in cantonese now (thanks to watching TVB alot growing up haha) but I used to feel like my mother tongue felt out of place growing up and I hated going to chinese school on the weekends. But now that I'm older I am actually very grateful for those weekends (even though it was only for a few years due to money issues). I started to appreciate cantonese more as a language and how complex it is and feel very lucky to know such a language. But lately, I've started to become afraid that cantonese will eventually be lost as more and more of the next generation are either only taught mandarin, only use mandarin, or either forbidden to use cantonese. So I am super appreciative of your efforts to help preserve our language. I hope you will continue to do this and I wish you and your family well! Liked, and subscribed!
Hi and thanks for commenting, liking and subscribing! I'm a big fan of Steve and Jordan and their channel. I share your feelings about Cantonese ... afraid of the day when they will mandate teaching in Mandarin in Hong Kong schools, and forbidding students from speaking Cantonese. That will be one sad day, and I can foresee it happening in the not too distant future, although of course I'll keep hoping it won't ever happen. And I'll keep doing what I can because Cantonese is really such a cool language! Thanks again!
Great little chat. Number 1: Some people probably cant learn Cantonese, but if you have started it's probably because you have an interest in it, which is a good start and probably an indication that with some effort you can achieve a bit or hopefully a lot. Number 2: This has been my biggest fear. Even yesterday messing around at the drivers licence there were 4 people with limited English and i was reluctant to speak Canto. Main reason was i was unsure what replies i would get and i really wanted to sort it out, so i wasnt too hard on myself over this. But probably could have had a crack. I dont mind talking, it's the replies that i get worried about! Number 3: Tones may be hard for some. This was not a problem for me as numbers stick in my head quite easily. Using tones initially was very hard, but after the first year of basically toneless Canto, I overrcame that fear til it felt more natural. Number 4 : Yes wrong teacher wont help, but at the end of the day you will get out of it what you put in. Number 5: I wouldnt call jyut piing laap saap, but it's not far off. Yale is far more superior. I am fairly familiar with both as i have used cantodict.com many times and they use jyut ping, so had to get used to it, but Yale is far far far (x another 1000) time better than jyut ping. jyut ping does it's best to confuse everyone. Who is making the decisions to introduce it at the Chinese University? If it is a Chinese person then they shouldnt. If it is a native Chinese speaker of Canto or Mando (communist version of Canto) then they shouldnt. How would they know what is best for a westerner or a non native chinese learner to learn Chinese? They couldnt know (perhaps they could if they researched I guess) but anyone who says jyut ping is better than yale are basically wrong. And to be honest you can remove the word basically from the last sentence for more accuracy. Great video and apologise for the communist comment. I really meant Mando is the inferior version of Canto.
You find Yale much better than Jyut Ping because Yale is a system specifically designed for English-speaking people! For example the character 中, it is 'jung' in Yale and 'zung' in Jyut Ping. Of course Yale is much easier for your because English words starting with 'j' are pronounced as /dʒ/, but in other languages 'j' is pronounced like 'y'. If German speakers who are learning Cantonese see the word 'jung', they may pronounce it like 'yung'. I'm not saying which one is better. I just want to point out Yale is definitely good for English speakers but probably not as good for other language speakers. That's why someone designed another system Jyut Ping.
In my opinion I like Jyutping over Yale. It’s probably because I understand Cantonese and know when to switch letter sounds. For example, the j to y sound.
beardan76 I have mostly used jyutping (except for one learning resource that used Yale) since the beginning and I found it very easy and logical. It helped me get the hang of the tones quickly. I think it’s a matter of what you get used to in the beginning. Besides, I think it’s even more important to use our ears, which becomes increasingly important when we get deeper into the language, as the way natives talk is not based on either Yale or Jyutping but on what they’ve heard from listening. The subtleties of Cantonese cannot fully be captured by a romanization system in my opinion. But it was a great help for me especially starting out. I have a video on my channel of me speaking Cantonese after 1 year and you can judge for yourselves how accurate my pronunciation and tones are if you’d like 😊
Regarding #1 (impossibility) it is a good reminder that many domestic workers in HK, especially the ones who take care of elderly people, learn Cantonese! I don't think they have any particular advantage over native English speakers other than that they HAVE to learn the language to do their job.
For me, i learned languages such as polish that uses J for the English Y sound and C (in some cases) for the CH sound, so Jyutping was a lot more intuitive for me. Add that to the fact that i can easily write Jyutping on a keyboard without extra vowel marks is a big bonus. I find that after associating the numbers with the tones it is so easy to just correlate the two to the point of being second nature. I also see alot of modern resources using Jyutping, which all together makes it the right choice for me. I recommend everybody see what works for them, it really is something that can`t be prescribed nor recommended.
I’m married to a HKer and we’ve been together for 18 years. Have three children. Lived in HK for nearly 20 years until recently. Often people ask me why I didn’t really learn to speak Cantonese. Here are additional reasons for the list: 1) I had learned Putonghua as part of my university degree. Learning Cantonese kind of ‘ruined’ my clear, crisp pronunciation and tones for PTH and didn’t make my Canto any more intelligible…lose/lose situation. 2) My husband refused to teach me or participate in me learning Canto…he didn’t care enough and couldn’t be bothered so if he didn’t care enough about his own mother tongue to want me to speak with him in it…what does that say about the value and usefulness of me learning it? I would be primarily learning it to speak with him, afterall. 3) Just gonna say it…lived in HK for 20 years…all of my adult life…deeply imbedded in local life (not living in a ‘foreigner ghetto’ and working in a job where I was the only non-HK person…HKers are mostly not very inviting or kind people to interact with…sure you do meet the odd person here and there who is welcoming and kind to a stranger but most really couldn’t give a 💩 about anyone but ‘’me, myself, and mine.’ I had so many terrible interactions with people from all walks of life that it honestly put me off from caring to learn their language. I lived in the NT in a village for most of my time in HK (only place we could afford) and most people are rough like a bunch of sailors and they talk, walk, act, and spit like it too. There is a lot of second language acquisition theory that addresses the fact that negative interactions with a host language/culture deeply impact the level of ambition and motivation possible for SLA…including Cantonese. 4) The entire time I was in HK I was working my a** off to survive. I also gave birth to three children, breastfed all of them (in total 6 years!), worked full time, and did 2 higher degrees…just to keep up with the rat race there was almost impossible with two adults working our butts off! When did I have any time to go to a proper Cantonese class? It wasn’t until recently that one could even really learn online. 🫤 Not everyone has the time to engage in an activity that seems to have little reward to it. My kids speak fluent Eng/Canto and that’s awesome. They can speak with their dad and grandparents. For me, I just feel like whatever hope I could have had for learning was shot down years ago. I have a very bad taste in my mouth about the entire thing.
its funny because only recently I discovered that Cantonese is the only Chinese language that uses the jyutping system where digits represent the tones. i wrote words in jyutping to a Mandarin speaker one day and they did not know what i was saying or what i meant. interesting!
It is! I don't know pinyin well enough to know the answer to this, but would or could it ever be adapted to Cantonese? It is interesting too how pinyin uses tone marks but jyutping doesn't. I wonder why the "founders" of jyutping decided on the numbers actually -- was it simply because it was easier to type? 🤔
#4 is extremely important for me. It's hard to find people who want to speak with you, and sometimes, hard to admit, but it comes across as kind of offensive lol, as if you're not worthy enough. At least that's how I feel. I've had the same problem in Mandarin for many years.... Until about 5 years later when I can just say whatever (for the most part). Maybe that's the same for Cantonese.
I think so .... really have to have tough skin to put up with the attitude you get sometimes, unintentional as it may be. I also totally get that feeling of being unworthy ... like "I'm trying here but if no one wants to reciprocate then what's the point!?" But once you get over that, it gets easier for sure. :)
Hello! Thank you so much for your very helpful videos🤗i'm Russian, but there is no cantonese education materials in Russian language so i have to use English and Mandarin to study Cantonese. People in Russia study only Mandarin. 1 month ago when i started learning Cantonese i have a feeling that i am the only one who learning this language in Russia. Many people said that Cantonese is not useful and it is better to improve Mandarin instead. But now i'm so happy to realize that i'm not the only one person who study Cantonese and your videos are very helpful and inspiring! 多谢！😀😀😀
Dmitrii Pershin I am so glad to hear you’re into Cantonese and bucking the trend! 🎉🙌 😁 Thanks for taking the time to comment. Do you have plans to come to Hong Kong one day (or have you been here before? Or are you here now? ☺️) - hopefully the COVID will lessen and soon we will all be able to travel more freely. 🤞 happy learning! 😁
@@CantoneseCorner thank you for your answer, no, i've never been to Hong Kong, but really wanna to go there))) Cantonese is awesome language, i fell in love with it))))
Thank you!!! I'm seeing your comment three months after you wrote it (sorry 😱!), and the year of the Tiger is so far going very well. I hope the same for you!! ♥
Just discovering your channel! Cantonese was my first language at home but I lost it as I got older. Trying to relearn so I can communicate with my grandparents better. Thank you for these videos 🙏🏼 I already got a feeling I’ll be learning a lot from you
I start to learn Lisp with a book, An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp. Because I heard that Emacs is a really cool thing. I put a lot of e-books and a copy of offline Wikipedia in a tiny TF card. So when I couldn't sleep I can find a book to read.
Hi there! I just heard your first reason and I was SO reminded of Japan. This is how it was here until so many foreigners started learning Japanese and now you never hear it. I mean, come on, really? Do they think it's genetic?! LOL
What you say in point 4 about friends that aren't helpful, I've found this quite a lot with Cantonese native speakers. It's kind of like you tell them that you're trying to learn and then they go out of their way to show you that you can't. I was quite surprised when I came across this and it really put me off trying to speak with people. I was wondering if its something to do with Chinese culture.
It's so funny how we (those of us learning) all come across that .... I can't imagine it's something they "learn" to say to people trying to speak, so not sure exactly when it all started, but it DOES add to the challenge -- as if it weren't hard enough already! LOL 😅
@@CantoneseCorner oh sorry - yeah that will definitely be a good start. Tandem is just helpful to use what you have learned :) of course you should definitely check out cantolingo.com :)
Hi Jason - sorry for late reply! For this, I checked with my native friends and they confirmed that "góng sī" 講師 is "lecturer" in Cantonese, although in HK, many people will just say "lecturer" in English. This "sī" is the same "sī" as in teacher "lóuh sī" or in "sī fu" 師父or "master" (which you hear a lot in Cantonese movies. :) Basically any kind of master at something will have this "sī" in the name ... chef, for example, is "chyùh sī" 廚師. And going back to lecturer, the "góng" is of course, speak/say/tell. Hope that helps! :)
i found this little chart to help with jyutping and it works if you know your numbers at least from 0-9 and the associated tones. idk if anyone else knows this or if it's common knowledge but: tone 1: 三 (3) tone 2: 九 (9) tone 3: 四 (4) tone 4: 零 (0) tone 5: 五 (5) tone 6: 二 (2) also just wanted to add that cantonese sheik is an AMAZING online dictionary, and it's EXTREMELY useful when you need the meanings and translations, pronunciations, synonyms, character compounds, stroke count, radical number, etc. so incredibly useful and i probably use it on a daily basis.
squishy ponyo This is great! Thanks for sharing the chart. Fun, too, to replace the 3 with a 1 and 2 with 6, etc. to mix it up a bit. Glad to know you use Cantonese sheik too - For work and lessons I have it open on a permanent tab on my computer 😄
I heard about this as well, only that the TH-camr 殿下在香港 who taught that included 3 more sounds - 394 052 786 (九声六调)。I memorised the sequence but no idea how to use the remaining 3 numbers 😆
As someone with a lot of experience with Mandarin and Pinyin learning Cantonese with the Yale system and tone marks helped me so much. Remembering tones with numbers makes me second guess myself constantly additionally the Yale system as an English native and a Mandarin L2 speaker is easier to digest.
Sorry for my late reply and yes!! My thoughts exactly. The pinyin system uses tone marks so it is kind of baffling why the “founders” of Jyutping chose to use numbers. Of course, always nice to have options, but I’m eternally grateful one of those options is Yale ☺️😍😁
You’re welcome! I don’t speak Mandarin past the very basics. I always think I should learn, but until I need to, I can’t see it happening - mainly because I don’t have the time. But I would love to be able to know what Jay Chou is singing about without having to look at the lyrics 😂
With jyutping I just readjusted a bit & ignored all the numbers in Yale & jyutping. I personally believe that the letters W/O numbers are much more useful bc the most effective way is to learn tones is by ear.
I've used Yale so long that I'm good with looking things up in dictionaries in Yale (or by stroke order or radical), but I will say that describing the tones using the Jyutping numbers is becoming almost easier for me than saying them in Yale. For example: 等 = saying "dáng in tone 2" is coming more natural than saying "dáng in the mid-rising tone". I'm not sure why that is, because when it comes to reading it (dáng as opposed to dang2) I would a 1000x prefer Yale! 😅
@@CantoneseCorner I first learned the Yale romanization systems for both Mandarin and Cantonese over 40 years ago (as well as the BoPoMoFo Zhuyin system for Mandarin). Later, I taught myself the Hanyu Pinyin system for Mandarin and the Jyutping system for Cantonese and I think there were both easy to pick up. I think they both addressed some of the drawbacks of the Yale system for both languages. In any case, if one is teaching or tutoring any of the Chinese dialects, it helps to know multiple standard phonetic systems,.
1. Can't : Nope, I can learn any and all languages, since I can make any sound from any human language, including tones and clicks. 2. Fear : Nope, I'm never afraid to try out a language with a native/excellent speaker. And I will help them with their English. Gives me a chance to learn more. It's fun, and you make friends easily. I know, sounds like an ad, but it's true. I can. 3. Tones: Nope. I know them, but it's more about how they're strung together, and full sentence intonation. It's about practice. So I try when I can. Not impossible. I can. I do hear a lot of people say "風水", and I hear "wind-sleep", not "wind-water". It's amusing, but confusing. This is why when I practice, and someone looks at me confused, I try to write (in the air) the characters, and learn the correct tone. 4. Teacher: Yes, I understand this; however, I've never had a bad language teacher. I have friends who can't speak certain languages well, and I wouldn't use them as a model for speaking clearly, let alone colloquially. E.g. French: I'll say, "Chai pas," but write, "Je ne sais pas," formally. But I can. 5. System: I learned Yale growing up, but use Pinyin for Mandarin, although I like Yale better for Cantonese. But that's me. I can. If I can do this, anyone can. Seriously. Love the video!!! It hits on all the excuses I've heard over the years for any language, even math. Don't be afraid. If you want to learn, you will find a way. I believe...you can. Do it! I can.
I love this!!! Sorry for late reply and thanks for commenting!. Love how you categorise math as a language. Now I'm thinking maybe I should revisit math and learn what I should have learned in high school and college but really didn't. Chemistry too! I bet learning math as a senior citizen would go a long way to keeping the brain active. Mahjong too, of course! :)
Hey Sue Marguerite! Glad to know that you're still safe :) I also tend to like Yale more than Jyutping, but I find that it's much harder to get the diacritics on the keyboard so I can understand why some people use Jyutping for this reason. (I actually tend to use Yale with numbers instead of diacritics because I find Jyutping's use of consonants really confusing.) I've actually been focusing on reading characters, instead. Getting native speakers to read stories out to me so I can make the character-to-sound connection instead of looking at "arbitrary" romanization. I use romanization only for my own reference now. In the long run, I know I'll need to switch to characters if I ever want to do any reading/ texting, so so far this approach is working. When it comes to speaking.. I found there are some good teachers to practice with. Some people are also just not used to producing the sounds (I'm still a little rubbish) so doing parroting (repeating after someone) works well. Try and get someone to correct you while parroting. A lot of times I didn't realize I was making mistakes even when I thought I was repeating things well. I started with repeating words and now I try to repeat phrases. :) Looking forward to your next videos
Hey there! So nice to hear from you and thanks for sharing so much!! I'm wondering .... do you use a mac keyboard? I was also completely lost about the accent marks until I learned that you can simply hold the vowel key down on a mac and the diacritics magically appear and all you need to do is select it! Hóu fōng bihn! (好方便 ! ) (so convenient! :) Although I still type using the accent marks, I've found myself using the numbers occasionally when talking about the tones 😱 and I have no idea why I started doing that. 😅 I'm so glad you're learning characters ... are you using any books in particular to learn from? You're right about it being hard to find TH-cam videos subtitled in Cantonese and not Standard Written Chinese ... if I come across any, I'll let you know. (Or hopefully someone who reads this and knows of any will share!) Also, yes! I'd love to do a video all in Cantonese and then subtitle it. When I get back to HK this is something I could do with one of my native friends - maybe even a short "out and about" video. So many ideas...so little time ... but I'll put it on the list! And thank you also for such a nice compliment! I'm very happy that you like it! 🥰
@@CantoneseCorner Yeah I have both mac and PC.. and on my mac it's easy enough to hold down the keyboard and do the accent marks.. but not so easy on PC. It's useful to learn both but maybe start with one and go with the other. Some chrome extensions such as "Cantonese Popup Dictionary" only use jyupting, and although it throws me off sometimes, it's still extremely useful. More recently, actually, I have been using songs to focus on learning characters and building my knowledge this way so I don't need to resort to using romanization at all :) I'm thinking of updating my other youtube channel with some of my Cantonese singing. :)
Puccarts That would be great!! What is your channel? We have been listening to a lot of old cantopop lately - have you ever heard the Canto version of “Ocean Deep”? It’s one of my favourites. Didn’t even know it was originally an English song until years later. I think it was sung by Cliff Richard but the version by Prudence Liew is really nice and “easy” to sing 🎤 💖
@@CantoneseCorner Hey Sue Marguerite! I kept meaning to reply to this (albeit probably over email) but I've decided to send you a comment with my second channel.. which is SUPER BARE because I'm actually a bit shy about uploading stuff. I've not heard of that song but I've been singing a mix of new and old. I think I'll just cheekily email you a video of me singing haha.. :P I also saw that you're on facebook as well as "Cantonese Corner" and I've just given you a follow there :) I can ping you a message on there as I'm usually much more responsive on there than here on youtube or on email! (I get swamped with so many and then they just get lost in the lists of "to do!" so very sorry about that!)
Thanks and welcome! I'm so glad you found me through Steve and Jordan. They're so entertaining and are such a lovely family. I'll be posting again soon ... just been terribly busy lately. Hope you enjoy my other videos in the meantime!
Love your channel Sue. Came upon it by chance tonight and you are doing such a great job towards keeping Cantonese and Cantonese speaking culture alive. Hopefully , Cantonese speaking will still be a part of the HK culture in 10 years time. Very sad that mainland China is doing what they can in HK to quash the most commonly spoken Chinese dialect.
Luxe Noir Thanks for the support! I couldn’t agree more. I think it won’t be long at all before schools in HK are forced to teach solely in Mandarin and that national education will also be passed. 😢 It’s funny how on the surface, it doesn’t seem like such a bad thing ... but scratch that surface and well, it is.
well the harder part learning and speaking cantonese..its obviously tones....its quite hard to define which ton is right and wrong when u are learning, and as u know a wrong tone, means different meaning, but yes the more u speak faster u learn
True! I just did a video on an easy way to get the tones down: th-cam.com/video/thQwfqcN3XY/w-d-xo.html I think is the link. (I know you may not need it, but maybe someone reading this will :)
I am an american in my sixties born here and my wife is from hong kong. she speaks english well enough with me but speaks Cantonese all the time with her family here and those in hk. i try to listen and i really dont hear many tones. her neice and nephews born here speak to her and their parents and they literally use zero tones. im guessing this is a family situation only and they would not be understood well if in hk. but since my main purpose is just to understand generally what my wife is talking about on the phone with her mother and to say a few words to them now and then, i dont see the purpose in learning the tones very much. maybe to a stranger i might be saying 'goose' instead of 'tuesday' (or something like that) but in a family setting they will know its tuesday esp from the context. you might say fine, thats up to you, but all lessons are oriented towards learning the tones, so what can i do, is these a cantonese for babies course without the tones? PS i am a musician and singer so i think i have good listening and vocal skills, so its not like i cant hear or make tones, it just seems a waste to spend all the time to learn them
Hi Holoman! I agree that drilling tones before you know words is pretty pointless and it irks me that when I've tried to learn mandarin, it started with saying "ma po bo fo" a gajllion times before it moved on to words (not always, but that's been my experience :) For me, I start with the numbers and learn the tones from there. I also just put up an "easy way to learn the tones" video th-cam.com/video/thQwfqcN3XY/w-d-xo.html that might help? I love that you're a musician and singer! (I love to sing - old stuff and standards, mostly. :)
I’ve noticed that a lot of people don’t care about tone as much as they use to. I think most people understand what you are trying to say even if you say it horribly.
@@mrtsiqsin2290 I have to say for me, 6th and 3rd (low and mid-tone) are the hardest by far. From their Yale names, you would think they are really far apart and easily distinguished, but I think because both are relatively flat tones with no up or down movement, for me, I tend to not make as much of a distinction as I think I should. When I'm speaking in full sentences it's not so much of a problem. But saying a word on its own I have to really remember to bring that third tone up a bit!
Ahhhh, I grew up in American and I only speak Cantonese with my parents but English with my siblings and everyone else. I feel like I'm losing my Cantonese everyday. I really appreciate the videos you do. They really help keep my cantonese in shape
I love your orchestra analogy for comparing Yale to jyutping. I found jyutping so hard at first, and gave up learning for a while. Just by chance I came across Yale and it just clicked with me, it felt far more natural. My biggest issues with jyutping is that it’s so disconnected from phonetics that you end up having to learn 2 languages at the same time - you have to learn Cantonese whilst remembering that a c means ch and j means y in jyupting.
Thanks, Fred! I'm so glad you liked the orchestra analogy ... it just came to me as I was standing there recording and needing something to do with my hands :)
Hi I absolutely hate wade gilles method. Jyutping is soo much easier. However you are spot on with the other 4. I have many Hong Kong friends who just cannot teach Cantonese, where my Chinese friends all know pin yin and tone marks. The biggest problem in Hong Kong is that there no standard method for romanising things like street names, place names for example 新 is spelt san, sun or son, even in the same village. Love your tutorials
Hi Howard! Thanks!! I never used Wade Gilles; and as you know, I love Yale -- BUT, I have to admit I AM getting more used to the numbers in Jyutping (however, I still can't get around using a "j" for "y" 😂). I wonder if eventually they'll change all the HK street names to pinyin? I would think yes? I find beauty in the madness, but it would make finding places easier.
@@CantoneseCorner Hi thanks for reply. J like a Y is normal, Spanish? But I think I will concentrate on Mandarin since many ppl in Northern NT (Yuen Long for example) understand Chinese (but I will still follow your channel)
Cantonese is my ancestral language, but I only started making a concerted effort to learn seven years ago. It's still a struggle, but videos like yours are quite helpful!
spot on. I would tell anyone wanting to learn Cantonese to forget it. I m losing my Cantonese as I m growing more and more like an English speaker day by day. I start or restart learning Cantonese from you even though Cantonese is my mother tongue. I have to speak Cantonese as I live in hongkong.
it is always baffling to me about people who can speak English and Cantonese fluently as I think that I'm a monolingual by nature, I just cannot speak two languages fluently.
@@xyz-pf1yz Thanks for commenting and sorry to only be replying now - a year later!! 😱 I hope you've been able to re-start learning ... I mean living in Hong Kong makes it a whole lot easier to listen and speak on a daily basis. Gā yáu! 加油 !
Also, another thing to keep in mind for anyone interested in learning Cantonese is when you are taught to read standard written Chinese in Cantonese pronunciation, it does not match how regular Cantonese is spoken; it matches maybe about 50% and the other 50% it does not. This is due to the fact that the standard written Chinese is based off spoken Mandarin, the official Chinese language. This is one of the most challenging parts when learning spoken Cantonese and the Chinese writing system together. Standard Chinese is taught in all of China, Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan and no matter what Chinese regional dialects are spoken including in Hong Kong, the standard written Chinese has to be used at all times for all formal written contents, such as newspapers, official documents, subtitles in TV shows/movies, magazines, books, and etc. Even almost all Cantonese songs are all in standard Chinese words, but all pronounced in Cantonese. Very often, many Cantonese speakers that are American Born or Canadian Born don't know the Chinese writing system and do not know Mandarin and as a result when they listen to Cantonese songs, they often are wondering why they cannot understand what is being said even though they can speak conversational Cantonese, but some of them later on start learning Mandarin and the Chinese writing system and then interestingly when they come back to listening to the Cantonese songs especially if they are watching the music video versions, they start understanding the lyrics slowly and then they start realizing it is spoken Mandarin, but all pronounced in Cantonese.
I remember helping out in a nursery school when I first arrived in Hong Kong and couldn't believe how the characters in the picture books the kids had were completely different to what one would say in Cantonese -- it is like two different languages! I also remember trying to learn songs when I first was learning Cantonese and being told by native friends: "Don't bother! They don't make any sense anyway!" 😂 LOL
@@CantoneseCorner At least now it will be easier for you to learn Mandarin since you already know the Standard Chinese Writing System. I would recommend any overseas born Cantonese speakers who want to learn the Chinese writing system should first study some spoken Mandarin first to make it easier to understand the Chinese writing system. Some of them think because they know how to speak Cantonese, it will be easier for them to learn the Chinese writing system through Cantonese, but once it gets to the formal part, it gets too confusing and they realize it is better that they learned the Chinese writing system through Mandarin first to make it easier to understand and like you said, it is very much like two different versions of Cantonese.
@@supertrouper can't believe it's been a year since your comment! I learned to write characters at Chinese University in Cantonese pronunciation, and now I am wondering if it would have been more advantageous to learn in Mandarin pronunciation, because as you said, there are a lot of characters that aren't spoken in Cantonese anyway. I would love to hear from those who did it that way!
@@argonwheatbelly637 I'm intrigued -- Mandarin but with a southern accent? You mean US southern accent? I'm going to go look up some videos now and have a listen!
If a foreigner wants to feel the Cantonese culture, of course, he/she should learn Cantonese. But, if he/she just wants to learn Chinese for business purpose, learning Mandarin will be a good start / a good alternative. I love Cantonese because Cantonese is classic and beautiful ; it is also my mother-tongue . But we cannot deny to say that there are much more useful materials/resources for learning Mandarin which is much more easier than Cantonese / more practical for business reasons. It is also difficult to get a good Cantonese Dictionary from book stores. On the other hand, if you can master Mandarin , you will have no problems when writing Chinese sentences. However, the "grammar" that we use in Cantonese is not compatible with the Modern-Chinese system. Sad but true. When you are reading newspapers/official correspondence, you will feel that the Mandarin system makes more sense. On the other hand, when you are reading the classical poems/writing a song , then using Cantonese will be better. To Sue, thank you very much that you help promote/preserve Cantonese. And i believe your students will enjoy studying Cantonese with you. 加油（+ oil）
HI Albert and thank you so much for sharing that with us! I find it so interesting how the Chinese languages developed and how they had to share characters but then Cantonese adapted them for their own use. It does seem to make little sense, but the fact that it makes little sense is also the beauty in it, I think. Like the old twisted streets of ancient towns ... the grid design of more modern cities is more efficient, but lacks a special character. In any case, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and for such a lovely compliment! I appreciate it. 🤗
Hi there ... I would have to say a mix of learning and then assimilating would be good, but agree that listening all the time to Cantonese is so important to train the ear to be able to tell the difference in tones. So much easier when you go to speak it if you're already used to hearing it ... kind of like a baby who listens for at least a year before even trying to babble out a few sounds :)
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Hi, I just found out about your channel today from Steve and Jordan over at the Cantonese Couple and I just wanted to leave a big thank you for what you have been doing for the cantonese language. I am originally from HK but immigrated to Canada at a young age and so I would say I am technically a CBC haha. I am fluent in cantonese now (thanks to watching TVB alot growing up haha) but I used to feel like my mother tongue felt out of place growing up and I hated going to chinese school on the weekends. But now that I'm older I am actually very grateful for those weekends (even though it was only for a few years due to money issues). I started to appreciate cantonese more as a language and how complex it is and feel very lucky to know such a language. But lately, I've started to become afraid that cantonese will eventually be lost as more and more of the next generation are either only taught mandarin, only use mandarin, or either forbidden to use cantonese. So I am super appreciative of your efforts to help preserve our language. I hope you will continue to do this and I wish you and your family well! Liked, and subscribed!
Hi and thanks for commenting, liking and subscribing! I'm a big fan of Steve and Jordan and their channel. I share your feelings about Cantonese ... afraid of the day when they will mandate teaching in Mandarin in Hong Kong schools, and forbidding students from speaking Cantonese. That will be one sad day, and I can foresee it happening in the not too distant future, although of course I'll keep hoping it won't ever happen. And I'll keep doing what I can because Cantonese is really such a cool language! Thanks again!
As a person who has tried more than 7-8 times to study it? Appreciate this...
As a Hong Kong person I must say your Cantonese is AMAZINGLY good !
@@Caaarooo_0 Thank you!! ♥(better late than never to see your comment! -- sorry it took me so long! :)
Glad to see you doing well! Hopefully things go back to normal soon :)
Emotivism Thanks! I hope you’re doing well, too.
Great little chat.
Number 1: Some people probably cant learn Cantonese, but if you have started it's probably because you have an interest in it, which is a good start and probably an indication that with some effort you can achieve a bit or hopefully a lot.
Number 2: This has been my biggest fear. Even yesterday messing around at the drivers licence there were 4 people with limited English and i was reluctant to speak Canto. Main reason was i was unsure what replies i would get and i really wanted to sort it out, so i wasnt too hard on myself over this. But probably could have had a crack. I dont mind talking, it's the replies that i get worried about!
Number 3: Tones may be hard for some. This was not a problem for me as numbers stick in my head quite easily. Using tones initially was very hard, but after the first year of basically toneless Canto, I overrcame that fear til it felt more natural.
Number 4 : Yes wrong teacher wont help, but at the end of the day you will get out of it what you put in.
Number 5: I wouldnt call jyut piing laap saap, but it's not far off. Yale is far more superior. I am fairly familiar with both as i have used cantodict.com many times and they use jyut ping, so had to get used to it, but Yale is far far far (x another 1000) time better than jyut ping. jyut ping does it's best to confuse everyone.
Who is making the decisions to introduce it at the Chinese University? If it is a Chinese person then they shouldnt. If it is a native Chinese speaker of Canto or Mando (communist version of Canto) then they shouldnt. How would they know what is best for a westerner or a non native chinese learner to learn Chinese? They couldnt know (perhaps they could if they researched I guess) but anyone who says jyut ping is better than yale are basically wrong. And to be honest you can remove the word basically from the last sentence for more accuracy.
Great video and apologise for the communist comment. I really meant Mando is the inferior version of Canto.
You find Yale much better than Jyut Ping because Yale is a system specifically designed for English-speaking people! For example the character 中, it is 'jung' in Yale and 'zung' in Jyut Ping. Of course Yale is much easier for your because English words starting with 'j' are pronounced as /dʒ/, but in other languages 'j' is pronounced like 'y'. If German speakers who are learning Cantonese see the word 'jung', they may pronounce it like 'yung'.
I'm not saying which one is better. I just want to point out Yale is definitely good for English speakers but probably not as good for other language speakers. That's why someone designed another system Jyut Ping.
In my opinion I like Jyutping over Yale. It’s probably because I understand Cantonese and know when to switch letter sounds. For example, the j to y sound.
beardan76 I have mostly used jyutping (except for one learning resource that used Yale) since the beginning and I found it very easy and logical. It helped me get the hang of the tones quickly. I think it’s a matter of what you get used to in the beginning. Besides, I think it’s even more important to use our ears, which becomes increasingly important when we get deeper into the language, as the way natives talk is not based on either Yale or Jyutping but on what they’ve heard from listening. The subtleties of Cantonese cannot fully be captured by a romanization system in my opinion. But it was a great help for me especially starting out.
I have a video on my channel of me speaking Cantonese after 1 year and you can judge for yourselves how accurate my pronunciation and tones are if you’d like 😊
Regarding #1 (impossibility) it is a good reminder that many domestic workers in HK, especially the ones who take care of elderly people, learn Cantonese! I don't think they have any particular advantage over native English speakers other than that they HAVE to learn the language to do their job.
Couldn't agree more ... Necessity is the mother of invention (or of learning Cantonese!) ... When you MUST, you CAN! :)
For me, i learned languages such as polish that uses J for the English Y sound and C (in some cases) for the CH sound, so Jyutping was a lot more intuitive for me. Add that to the fact that i can easily write Jyutping on a keyboard without extra vowel marks is a big bonus. I find that after associating the numbers with the tones it is so easy to just correlate the two to the point of being second nature. I also see alot of modern resources using Jyutping, which all together makes it the right choice for me. I recommend everybody see what works for them, it really is something that can`t be prescribed nor recommended.
Thank you so much for sharing that! Agree 100% -- the system has to work for the individual or it's no good at all. :)
I’m married to a HKer and we’ve been together for 18 years. Have three children. Lived in HK for nearly 20 years until recently. Often people ask me why I didn’t really learn to speak Cantonese. Here are additional reasons for the list:
1) I had learned Putonghua as part of my university degree. Learning Cantonese kind of ‘ruined’ my clear, crisp pronunciation and tones for PTH and didn’t make my Canto any more intelligible…lose/lose situation.
2) My husband refused to teach me or participate in me learning Canto…he didn’t care enough and couldn’t be bothered so if he didn’t care enough about his own mother tongue to want me to speak with him in it…what does that say about the value and usefulness of me learning it? I would be primarily learning it to speak with him, afterall.
3) Just gonna say it…lived in HK for 20 years…all of my adult life…deeply imbedded in local life (not living in a ‘foreigner ghetto’ and working in a job where I was the only non-HK person…HKers are mostly not very inviting or kind people to interact with…sure you do meet the odd person here and there who is welcoming and kind to a stranger but most really couldn’t give a 💩 about anyone but ‘’me, myself, and mine.’ I had so many terrible interactions with people from all walks of life that it honestly put me off from caring to learn their language. I lived in the NT in a village for most of my time in HK (only place we could afford) and most people are rough like a bunch of sailors and they talk, walk, act, and spit like it too. There is a lot of second language acquisition theory that addresses the fact that negative interactions with a host language/culture deeply impact the level of ambition and motivation possible for SLA…including Cantonese.
4) The entire time I was in HK I was working my a** off to survive. I also gave birth to three children, breastfed all of them (in total 6 years!), worked full time, and did 2 higher degrees…just to keep up with the rat race there was almost impossible with two adults working our butts off! When did I have any time to go to a proper Cantonese class? It wasn’t until recently that one could even really learn online. 🫤 Not everyone has the time to engage in an activity that seems to have little reward to it.
My kids speak fluent Eng/Canto and that’s awesome. They can speak with their dad and grandparents. For me, I just feel like whatever hope I could have had for learning was shot down years ago. I have a very bad taste in my mouth about the entire thing.
its funny because only recently I discovered that Cantonese is the only Chinese language that uses the jyutping system where digits represent the tones. i wrote words in jyutping to a Mandarin speaker one day and they did not know what i was saying or what i meant. interesting!
It is! I don't know pinyin well enough to know the answer to this, but would or could it ever be adapted to Cantonese? It is interesting too how pinyin uses tone marks but jyutping doesn't. I wonder why the "founders" of jyutping decided on the numbers actually -- was it simply because it was easier to type? 🤔
#4 is extremely important for me. It's hard to find people who want to speak with you, and sometimes, hard to admit, but it comes across as kind of offensive lol, as if you're not worthy enough. At least that's how I feel. I've had the same problem in Mandarin for many years.... Until about 5 years later when I can just say whatever (for the most part). Maybe that's the same for Cantonese.
I think so .... really have to have tough skin to put up with the attitude you get sometimes, unintentional as it may be. I also totally get that feeling of being unworthy ... like "I'm trying here but if no one wants to reciprocate then what's the point!?" But once you get over that, it gets easier for sure. :)
Your cantonese is marvellous, sensational!! Well-done!! Keep working!! Keep going!!
Thank you so much! I will keep on keeping on ... thanks for the encouragement! 🙏
thank you for yet another amazing video!! i'll try and apply these tips to improve my cantonese! 😊
Hi there! So nice to hear from you and thanks for that! I hope they help :)
Hello! Thank you so much for your very helpful videos🤗i'm Russian, but there is no cantonese education materials in Russian language so i have to use English and Mandarin to study Cantonese. People in Russia study only Mandarin. 1 month ago when i started learning Cantonese i have a feeling that i am the only one who learning this language in Russia. Many people said that Cantonese is not useful and it is better to improve Mandarin instead. But now i'm so happy to realize that i'm not the only one person who study Cantonese and your videos are very helpful and inspiring! 多谢！😀😀😀
Dmitrii Pershin I am so glad to hear you’re into Cantonese and bucking the trend! 🎉🙌 😁 Thanks for taking the time to comment. Do you have plans to come to Hong Kong one day (or have you been here before? Or are you here now? ☺️) - hopefully the COVID will lessen and soon we will all be able to travel more freely. 🤞 happy learning! 😁
@@CantoneseCorner thank you for your answer, no, i've never been to Hong Kong, but really wanna to go there))) Cantonese is awesome language, i fell in love with it))))
Hello! Thank you for your interesting videos. I would like to wish you --新年快樂 HAPPY NEW YEAR 2022 YEAR OF THE TIGER!!! Barbara
Thank you!!! I'm seeing your comment three months after you wrote it (sorry 😱!), and the year of the Tiger is so far going very well. I hope the same for you!! ♥
Just discovering your channel! Cantonese was my first language at home but I lost it as I got older. Trying to relearn so I can communicate with my grandparents better. Thank you for these videos 🙏🏼 I already got a feeling I’ll be learning a lot from you
You're welcome! I'm so glad you're finding them useful, and hope they will continue to be. 🙌💗
I start to learn Lisp with a book, An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp. Because I heard that Emacs is a really cool thing. I put a lot of e-books and a copy of offline Wikipedia in a tiny TF card. So when I couldn't sleep I can find a book to read.
Hi Tszwah! I have no idea what Lisp or a TF card is, but as usual, thanks for introducing me something new! Going to look them up now ☺️
Hi there! I just heard your first reason and I was SO reminded of Japan. This is how it was here until so many foreigners started learning Japanese and now you never hear it. I mean, come on, really? Do they think it's genetic?! LOL
I feel the same way! And in some ways I think English is way harder to learn. 😅
What you say in point 4 about friends that aren't helpful, I've found this quite a lot with Cantonese native speakers. It's kind of like you tell them that you're trying to learn and then they go out of their way to show you that you can't. I was quite surprised when I came across this and it really put me off trying to speak with people. I was wondering if its something to do with Chinese culture.
It's so funny how we (those of us learning) all come across that .... I can't imagine it's something they "learn" to say to people trying to speak, so not sure exactly when it all started, but it DOES add to the challenge -- as if it weren't hard enough already! LOL 😅
The reason that I can't speak Cantonese is I can't find any teacher in my country 😜
I had the same problem! Try the Tandem App there are a lot of nice Hong Kong people who are willing to help you out :)
Or if you're just starting out, you could try joining me at www.cantolingo.com :)
@@CantoneseCorner oh sorry - yeah that will definitely be a good start. Tandem is just helpful to use what you have learned :) of course you should definitely check out cantolingo.com :)
Random question, but do you know what lecturer is in cantonese? (rather than a teacher)
Hi Jason - sorry for late reply! For this, I checked with my native friends and they confirmed that "góng sī" 講師 is "lecturer" in Cantonese, although in HK, many people will just say "lecturer" in English. This "sī" is the same "sī" as in teacher "lóuh sī" or in "sī fu" 師父or "master" (which you hear a lot in Cantonese movies. :) Basically any kind of master at something will have this "sī" in the name ... chef, for example, is "chyùh sī" 廚師. And going back to lecturer, the "góng" is of course, speak/say/tell. Hope that helps! :)
@@CantoneseCorner Thank you so much! I just found it much weirder to describe my lecturers as normal 'teachers' in Cantonese, so this really helps :).
i found this little chart to help with jyutping and it works if you know your numbers at least from 0-9 and the associated tones. idk if anyone else knows this or if it's common knowledge but:
tone 1: 三 (3)
tone 2: 九 (9)
tone 3: 四 (4)
tone 4: 零 (0)
tone 5: 五 (5)
tone 6: 二 (2)
also just wanted to add that cantonese sheik is an AMAZING online dictionary, and it's EXTREMELY useful when you need the meanings and translations, pronunciations, synonyms, character compounds, stroke count, radical number, etc. so incredibly useful and i probably use it on a daily basis.
squishy ponyo This is great! Thanks for sharing the chart. Fun, too, to replace the 3 with a 1 and 2 with 6, etc. to mix it up a bit. Glad to know you use Cantonese sheik too - For work and lessons I have it open on a permanent tab on my computer 😄
I heard about this as well, only that the TH-camr 殿下在香港 who taught that included 3 more sounds - 394 052 786 (九声六调)。I memorised the sequence but no idea how to use the remaining 3 numbers 😆
As someone with a lot of experience with Mandarin and Pinyin learning Cantonese with the Yale system and tone marks helped me so much. Remembering tones with numbers makes me second guess myself constantly additionally the Yale system as an English native and a Mandarin L2 speaker is easier to digest.
Sorry for my late reply and yes!! My thoughts exactly. The pinyin system uses tone marks so it is kind of baffling why the “founders” of Jyutping chose to use numbers. Of course, always nice to have options, but I’m eternally grateful one of those options is Yale ☺️😍😁
Thank you for all the valuable information you've uploaded. Do you speak Mandarin as well?
You’re welcome! I don’t speak Mandarin past the very basics. I always think I should learn, but until I need to, I can’t see it happening - mainly because I don’t have the time. But I would love to be able to know what Jay Chou is singing about without having to look at the lyrics 😂
American hegemony
❤️
With jyutping I just readjusted a bit & ignored all the numbers in Yale & jyutping. I personally believe that the letters W/O numbers are much more useful bc the most effective way is to learn tones is by ear.
I think Jyutping is good for dictionaries and looking words up. For teaching beginner learners, the situation might be different.
I've used Yale so long that I'm good with looking things up in dictionaries in Yale (or by stroke order or radical), but I will say that describing the tones using the Jyutping numbers is becoming almost easier for me than saying them in Yale. For example: 等 = saying "dáng in tone 2" is coming more natural than saying "dáng in the mid-rising tone". I'm not sure why that is, because when it comes to reading it (dáng as opposed to dang2) I would a 1000x prefer Yale! 😅
@@CantoneseCorner I first learned the Yale romanization systems for both Mandarin and Cantonese over 40 years ago (as well as the BoPoMoFo Zhuyin system for Mandarin). Later, I taught myself the Hanyu Pinyin system for Mandarin and the Jyutping system for Cantonese and I think there were both easy to pick up. I think they both addressed some of the drawbacks of the Yale system for both languages. In any case, if one is teaching or tutoring any of the Chinese dialects, it helps to know multiple standard phonetic systems,.
I think it is Mr. Geico not frog. Lol
Omg that is hilarious - I will never look at this picture the same again 😂😂😂
1. Can't : Nope, I can learn any and all languages, since I can make any sound from any human language, including tones and clicks.
2. Fear : Nope, I'm never afraid to try out a language with a native/excellent speaker. And I will help them with their English. Gives me a chance to learn more. It's fun, and you make friends easily. I know, sounds like an ad, but it's true. I can.
3. Tones: Nope. I know them, but it's more about how they're strung together, and full sentence intonation. It's about practice. So I try when I can. Not impossible. I can. I do hear a lot of people say "風水", and I hear "wind-sleep", not "wind-water". It's amusing, but confusing. This is why when I practice, and someone looks at me confused, I try to write (in the air) the characters, and learn the correct tone.
4. Teacher: Yes, I understand this; however, I've never had a bad language teacher. I have friends who can't speak certain languages well, and I wouldn't use them as a model for speaking clearly, let alone colloquially. E.g. French: I'll say, "Chai pas," but write, "Je ne sais pas," formally. But I can.
5. System: I learned Yale growing up, but use Pinyin for Mandarin, although I like Yale better for Cantonese. But that's me. I can.
If I can do this, anyone can. Seriously.
Love the video!!! It hits on all the excuses I've heard over the years for any language, even math. Don't be afraid. If you want to learn, you will find a way. I believe...you can. Do it!
I can.
I love this!!! Sorry for late reply and thanks for commenting!. Love how you categorise math as a language. Now I'm thinking maybe I should revisit math and learn what I should have learned in high school and college but really didn't. Chemistry too! I bet learning math as a senior citizen would go a long way to keeping the brain active. Mahjong too, of course! :)
Hey Sue Marguerite! Glad to know that you're still safe :) I also tend to like Yale more than Jyutping, but I find that it's much harder to get the diacritics on the keyboard so I can understand why some people use Jyutping for this reason. (I actually tend to use Yale with numbers instead of diacritics because I find Jyutping's use of consonants really confusing.)
I've actually been focusing on reading characters, instead. Getting native speakers to read stories out to me so I can make the character-to-sound connection instead of looking at "arbitrary" romanization. I use romanization only for my own reference now. In the long run, I know I'll need to switch to characters if I ever want to do any reading/ texting, so so far this approach is working.
When it comes to speaking.. I found there are some good teachers to practice with. Some people are also just not used to producing the sounds (I'm still a little rubbish) so doing parroting (repeating after someone) works well. Try and get someone to correct you while parroting. A lot of times I didn't realize I was making mistakes even when I thought I was repeating things well. I started with repeating words and now I try to repeat phrases.
:) Looking forward to your next videos
Hey there! So nice to hear from you and thanks for sharing so much!! I'm wondering .... do you use a mac keyboard? I was also completely lost about the accent marks until I learned that you can simply hold the vowel key down on a mac and the diacritics magically appear and all you need to do is select it! Hóu fōng bihn! (好方便 ! ) (so convenient! :) Although I still type using the accent marks, I've found myself using the numbers occasionally when talking about the tones 😱 and I have no idea why I started doing that. 😅
I'm so glad you're learning characters ... are you using any books in particular to learn from? You're right about it being hard to find TH-cam videos subtitled in Cantonese and not Standard Written Chinese ... if I come across any, I'll let you know. (Or hopefully someone who reads this and knows of any will share!)
Also, yes! I'd love to do a video all in Cantonese and then subtitle it. When I get back to HK this is something I could do with one of my native friends - maybe even a short "out and about" video. So many ideas...so little time ... but I'll put it on the list! And thank you also for such a nice compliment! I'm very happy that you like it! 🥰
@@CantoneseCorner Yeah I have both mac and PC.. and on my mac it's easy enough to hold down the keyboard and do the accent marks.. but not so easy on PC. It's useful to learn both but maybe start with one and go with the other. Some chrome extensions such as "Cantonese Popup Dictionary" only use jyupting, and although it throws me off sometimes, it's still extremely useful. More recently, actually, I have been using songs to focus on learning characters and building my knowledge this way so I don't need to resort to using romanization at all :) I'm thinking of updating my other youtube channel with some of my Cantonese singing. :)
Puccarts That would be great!! What is your channel? We have been listening to a lot of old cantopop lately - have you ever heard the Canto version of “Ocean Deep”? It’s one of my favourites. Didn’t even know it was originally an English song until years later. I think it was sung by Cliff Richard but the version by Prudence Liew is really nice and “easy” to sing 🎤 💖
@@CantoneseCorner Hey Sue Marguerite! I kept meaning to reply to this (albeit probably over email) but I've decided to send you a comment with my second channel.. which is SUPER BARE because I'm actually a bit shy about uploading stuff. I've not heard of that song but I've been singing a mix of new and old. I think I'll just cheekily email you a video of me singing haha.. :P I also saw that you're on facebook as well as "Cantonese Corner" and I've just given you a follow there :) I can ping you a message on there as I'm usually much more responsive on there than here on youtube or on email! (I get swamped with so many and then they just get lost in the lists of "to do!" so very sorry about that!)
In H.K.the first one who sang Ocean Deep in Cantonese is Frances Yip.
New sub here. Finally a more proper cantonese youtuber teacher. LOL. Cantonese couple was amusing, you sound like naive. Awesome
Thanks and welcome! I'm so glad you found me through Steve and Jordan. They're so entertaining and are such a lovely family. I'll be posting again soon ... just been terribly busy lately. Hope you enjoy my other videos in the meantime!
Love your channel Sue. Came upon it by chance tonight and you are doing such a great job towards keeping Cantonese and Cantonese speaking culture alive. Hopefully , Cantonese speaking will still be a part of the HK culture in 10 years time. Very sad that mainland China is doing what they can in HK to quash the most commonly spoken Chinese dialect.
Luxe Noir Thanks for the support! I couldn’t agree more. I think it won’t be long at all before schools in HK are forced to teach solely in Mandarin and that national education will also be passed. 😢 It’s funny how on the surface, it doesn’t seem like such a bad thing ... but scratch that surface and well, it is.
well the harder part learning and speaking cantonese..its obviously tones....its quite hard to define which ton is right and wrong when u are learning, and as u know a wrong tone, means different meaning, but yes the more u speak faster u learn
True! I just did a video on an easy way to get the tones down: th-cam.com/video/thQwfqcN3XY/w-d-xo.html I think is the link. (I know you may not need it, but maybe someone reading this will :)
I am an american in my sixties born here and my wife is from hong kong. she speaks english well enough with me but speaks Cantonese all the time with her family here and those in hk. i try to listen and i really dont hear many tones. her neice and nephews born here speak to her and their parents and they literally use zero tones. im guessing this is a family situation only and they would not be understood well if in hk. but since my main purpose is just to understand generally what my wife is talking about on the phone with her mother and to say a few words to them now and then, i dont see the purpose in learning the tones very much. maybe to a stranger i might be saying 'goose' instead of 'tuesday' (or something like that) but in a family setting they will know its tuesday esp from the context. you might say fine, thats up to you, but all lessons are oriented towards learning the tones, so what can i do, is these a cantonese for babies course without the tones?
PS i am a musician and singer so i think i have good listening and vocal skills, so its not like i cant hear or make tones, it just seems a waste to spend all the time to learn them
Hi Holoman! I agree that drilling tones before you know words is pretty pointless and it irks me that when I've tried to learn mandarin, it started with saying "ma po bo fo" a gajllion times before it moved on to words (not always, but that's been my experience :) For me, I start with the numbers and learn the tones from there. I also just put up an "easy way to learn the tones" video th-cam.com/video/thQwfqcN3XY/w-d-xo.html that might help? I love that you're a musician and singer! (I love to sing - old stuff and standards, mostly. :)
I totally agree about jyutping! Ever since I started watching your videos with the Yale system I feel like I can actually understand this.
I am so glad to hear it and happy my videos can help! Happy continued learning! :)
Even as a native speaker, sometimes I can't distinguish the 2nd and 5th tones.
I’ve noticed that a lot of people don’t care about tone as much as they use to. I think most people understand what you are trying to say even if you say it horribly.
also 4th and 6th
@@diva3713 Sorry, I think these two are very distinctive for native speakers.
@@mrtsiqsin2290 I have to say for me, 6th and 3rd (low and mid-tone) are the hardest by far. From their Yale names, you would think they are really far apart and easily distinguished, but I think because both are relatively flat tones with no up or down movement, for me, I tend to not make as much of a distinction as I think I should. When I'm speaking in full sentences it's not so much of a problem. But saying a word on its own I have to really remember to bring that third tone up a bit!
Ahhhh, I grew up in American and I only speak Cantonese with my parents but English with my siblings and everyone else. I feel like I'm losing my Cantonese everyday. I really appreciate the videos you do. They really help keep my cantonese in shape
Thanks so much! I'm so glad I can help. :)
I love your orchestra analogy for comparing Yale to jyutping.
I found jyutping so hard at first, and gave up learning for a while. Just by chance I came across Yale and it just clicked with me, it felt far more natural.
My biggest issues with jyutping is that it’s so disconnected from phonetics that you end up having to learn 2 languages at the same time - you have to learn Cantonese whilst remembering that a c means ch and j means y in jyupting.
Thanks, Fred! I'm so glad you liked the orchestra analogy ... it just came to me as I was standing there recording and needing something to do with my hands :)
Hi
I absolutely hate wade gilles method. Jyutping is soo much easier. However you are spot on with the other 4. I have many Hong Kong friends who just cannot teach Cantonese, where my Chinese friends all know pin yin and tone marks. The biggest problem in Hong Kong is that there no standard method for romanising things like street names, place names for example 新 is spelt san, sun or son, even in the same village. Love your tutorials
Hi Howard! Thanks!! I never used Wade Gilles; and as you know, I love Yale -- BUT, I have to admit I AM getting more used to the numbers in Jyutping (however, I still can't get around using a "j" for "y" 😂). I wonder if eventually they'll change all the HK street names to pinyin? I would think yes? I find beauty in the madness, but it would make finding places easier.
@@CantoneseCorner Hi thanks for reply. J like a Y is normal, Spanish? But I think I will concentrate on Mandarin since many ppl in Northern NT (Yuen Long for example) understand Chinese (but I will still follow your channel)
Cantonese is my ancestral language, but I only started making a concerted effort to learn seven years ago. It's still a struggle, but videos like yours are quite helpful!
Thanks! I'm so glad they can help. Happy learning! :)
thanks god i found your channel i want to learn cantonese 😊😊😊
I’m so glad you found it, too! Happy learning! 🤗🥰🎉
How is your Cantonese more fluent than me??? I'm from Hong Kong lol and wow your Cantonese is good!
😅 LOL! Thank you so much!! Appreciate the compliment 💖
@@CantoneseCorner ahh you’re welcome!!
Lay ho yow yung!
If you are trying to say " you are very useful", to say "you", it's "nay" with a n, not l.
I am ready to restart my Can'tonese lessons over at Cantolingo 😖😶
Hi there! So happy to hear it, and I'm here for you if/when you need it! Hope to turn that 😖 into a 😄! :)
spot on. I would tell anyone wanting to learn Cantonese to forget it. I m losing my Cantonese as I m growing more and more like an English speaker day by day. I start or restart learning Cantonese from you even though Cantonese is my mother tongue. I have to speak Cantonese as I live in hongkong.
it is always baffling to me about people who can speak English and Cantonese fluently as I think that I'm a monolingual by nature, I just cannot speak two languages fluently.
@@xyz-pf1yz Thanks for commenting and sorry to only be replying now - a year later!! 😱 I hope you've been able to re-start learning ... I mean living in Hong Kong makes it a whole lot easier to listen and speak on a daily basis. Gā yáu! 加油 !
Also, another thing to keep in mind for anyone interested in learning Cantonese is when you are taught to read standard written Chinese in Cantonese pronunciation, it does not match how regular Cantonese is spoken; it matches maybe about 50% and the other 50% it does not. This is due to the fact that the standard written Chinese is based off spoken Mandarin, the official Chinese language. This is one of the most challenging parts when learning spoken Cantonese and the Chinese writing system together. Standard Chinese is taught in all of China, Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan and no matter what Chinese regional dialects are spoken including in Hong Kong, the standard written Chinese has to be used at all times for all formal written contents, such as newspapers, official documents, subtitles in TV shows/movies, magazines, books, and etc. Even almost all Cantonese songs are all in standard Chinese words, but all pronounced in Cantonese. Very often, many Cantonese speakers that are American Born or Canadian Born don't know the Chinese writing system and do not know Mandarin and as a result when they listen to Cantonese songs, they often are wondering why they cannot understand what is being said even though they can speak conversational Cantonese, but some of them later on start learning Mandarin and the Chinese writing system and then interestingly when they come back to listening to the Cantonese songs especially if they are watching the music video versions, they start understanding the lyrics slowly and then they start realizing it is spoken Mandarin, but all pronounced in Cantonese.
I remember helping out in a nursery school when I first arrived in Hong Kong and couldn't believe how the characters in the picture books the kids had were completely different to what one would say in Cantonese -- it is like two different languages! I also remember trying to learn songs when I first was learning Cantonese and being told by native friends: "Don't bother! They don't make any sense anyway!" 😂 LOL
@@CantoneseCorner At least now it will be easier for you to learn Mandarin since you already know the Standard Chinese Writing System. I would recommend any overseas born Cantonese speakers who want to learn the Chinese writing system should first study some spoken Mandarin first to make it easier to understand the Chinese writing system. Some of them think because they know how to speak Cantonese, it will be easier for them to learn the Chinese writing system through Cantonese, but once it gets to the formal part, it gets too confusing and they realize it is better that they learned the Chinese writing system through Mandarin first to make it easier to understand and like you said, it is very much like two different versions of Cantonese.
@@supertrouper can't believe it's been a year since your comment! I learned to write characters at Chinese University in Cantonese pronunciation, and now I am wondering if it would have been more advantageous to learn in Mandarin pronunciation, because as you said, there are a lot of characters that aren't spoken in Cantonese anyway. I would love to hear from those who did it that way!
Growing up, I heard more Cantonese than Mandarin, but these days I hear a lot of Fuzhounese. Thoughts?
Hi there! Sorry for late reply .... wow! I would have no idea how to compare Cantonese to Fuzhounese. Is it similar? Would love to hear more!
@@CantoneseCorner : To me, it almost sounds a bit like Mandarin, but with a very southern accent. The vocab is different, though.
@@argonwheatbelly637 I'm intrigued -- Mandarin but with a southern accent? You mean US southern accent? I'm going to go look up some videos now and have a listen!
@@CantoneseCorner : LOL! Sorry, I meant a southern Chinese accent.
Very cool paintings!
Thank you!! They “spark joy” and make me smile 😍
我講中文啊因為我住香港講中文好容易㗎
哈哈 ! 👏👏
好!!
Love this!!
Thanks!! I'm so glad you do :)
thx sue !
You're welcome! :)
If a foreigner wants to feel the Cantonese culture, of course, he/she should learn Cantonese. But, if he/she just wants to learn Chinese for business purpose, learning Mandarin will be a good start / a good alternative. I love Cantonese because Cantonese is classic and beautiful ; it is also my mother-tongue . But we cannot deny to say that there are much more useful materials/resources for learning Mandarin which is much more easier than Cantonese / more practical for business reasons. It is also difficult to get a good Cantonese Dictionary from book stores. On the other hand, if you can master Mandarin , you will have no problems when writing Chinese sentences. However, the "grammar" that we use in Cantonese is not compatible with the Modern-Chinese system. Sad but true. When you are reading newspapers/official correspondence, you will feel that the Mandarin system makes more sense. On the other hand, when you are reading the classical poems/writing a song , then using Cantonese will be better.
To Sue, thank you very much that you help promote/preserve Cantonese. And i believe your students will enjoy studying Cantonese with you. 加油（+ oil）
HI Albert and thank you so much for sharing that with us! I find it so interesting how the Chinese languages developed and how they had to share characters but then Cantonese adapted them for their own use. It does seem to make little sense, but the fact that it makes little sense is also the beauty in it, I think. Like the old twisted streets of ancient towns ... the grid design of more modern cities is more efficient, but lacks a special character. In any case, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and for such a lovely compliment! I appreciate it. 🤗
You should not learn Cantonese
Try to understand Cantonese If u cannot tell the difference
U will have a very hard time
Hi there ... I would have to say a mix of learning and then assimilating would be good, but agree that listening all the time to Cantonese is so important to train the ear to be able to tell the difference in tones. So much easier when you go to speak it if you're already used to hearing it ... kind of like a baby who listens for at least a year before even trying to babble out a few sounds :)
@@CantoneseCorner If u guys want some listening pratice u can hire a HK local student from Telegram group or forum