It’s NOT a trail bike it’s more a baby enduro or All mountain. Neil just wanted an excuse to ride the 150 spectral and bit his self in the A*s doing it! Now everyone is talking 💩 in the comments😂😂🤣
Came here to say exactly this. 160/150 travel is pretty much Enduro category anyway, which is what Canyon categorise it as. It would be interesting to see how it would be on a 120/120 travel bike?
140 mm is never under-biked unless you are doing freeride. even running it on uci world cup dh tracks is sufficient enough unless you want to win. but for weekend rides? nah, its fun enough.
Thank you for the comparison video. I feel like this does help people consider what they really want to use their bike for. Me, I’m 40 and ride a Marin rift zone XR which is 130/140. Before that I exclusively rode around on a hard tail and learned how to let the bike move underneath me quite well. My trail bike has opened up a whole world of playful opportunities!
Nice insight as usual Neil. So many variables but I think age and how much your body is hammered plays a part. I've been riding since '92 and had a fair few injuries. I lean on the overbiked side purely for comfort and having a bit more to play with on the rougher stuff as you mention.
@@BlackMan614 I've not had a great experience with advice at bike shops.. I seem to get "you want a road/MTB/etc bike? There they are. More money equals better, it's just a question of what you're willing to spend. The bike has to be name-matched to the task (road for road). If that doesn't work for you, you need to accept that." Things like the 175mm cranks (right size for 5'11"/1.8m rider) being slapped on everything have highlighted for me that bike companies/sellers don't care if it's right for the owner.
Your videos are usually excellent, and the concept here is interesting. However, even Canyon categorizes the Spectral as an enduro bike. There was not nearly enough contrast. For restitution, you should redo the video with the Orbea against a Spectral 125 and a hardtail.
A 125 travel bike and a hardtail might break at Dyfi, people don't realize how insane that bike park is. Dyfi was built to train pro DH racers and most of the trails are pro lines (beyond double black).
If you're confident on Dyfi trails, then you're well above the skill level of the average rider. So you're probably one of those who likes to ride underbiked for the challenge.
As someone who rides an enduro bike and has previously owned an Ibis Ripmo and a trail bike before that, no a 150 travel bike is not an enduro bike. 150 travel is usually called "All Mountain" as they kinda fit between trail and enduro. Once the speeds come up even that 10mm difference in travel between a 150/160 bike and a 160/170 bike becomes very apparent. The enduro bike is just on another level in terms of stability and ability to carry speed, they also tend to corner better than trail/AM bikes. At slow speeds though, the enduro bike might feel a little lifeless.
If you consider things from purely Enduro racing, sure, however for most users it's not a trail bike, it is even listed under the enduro category on the website.
Not much, mine is 120 rear 130 front, and it handles everything just fine, including double black downhill bike park tracks, suspension travel along with head angle has mostly become a sales pitch by manufacturers to try and convince people to buy new bikes.
@@rubberside3969 i think it just comes down to riding style. if you like to ride slow and pick your way through stuff it doesnt matter, but those things start to become very noticeable when youre blasting through chunk
@@sam61480 Depends on the trails too. You can defintiely pick your way down a double black DH track, if the trail can be ridden that slowly. Example, in Moab you can ride the double black trail Captain Ahab on pretty much anything since it's mostly super grippy slickrock which can be ridden as slow as you like. Try that on Top of the World in Whistler and you're going off a cliff, Whistler rock is not grippy at all and you MUST go fast down rocky sections in Whistler or you're going to end up in a slide and crashing.
I agrée about buying for what you want to be riding. I should probably have gotten a long travel, full sus XC bike rather tu an a trail bike, but I love riding my trail bike so much and I can take it on everything I want to ride. Seem to be the conclusion of Neil’s video really is, you are fastest on what you are most confident on !
Was good to have a chat with you on the day bud, really interesting look at riding Iv done similar as I had a polygon Siskiu D5 now riding a specialized BIGHIT 1 with tripples I’m definitely over biked now but feels so much more comfortable at DYFi.
Neil gets it i've thought about getting a slopestyle bike for my intermediate riding where i want a bit more than a hardtail but not quite a "real" full sus. Even my enduro is just an over-built trail bike (140/140)
My personal thought: I love my enduro bike and wouldn't give it up for any money in the world ( Custom Nomad V4 )! Nevertheless, I have to and want to say that even trail bikes are so incredibly capable. With just a few adjustments and tweaks, you can build yourself a "mini enduro". Especially when it comes to suspension settings and tyre choice, you can create so much support even for very rough trails. And 150 mm of suspension travel is in no way "short travel". What is certain, however, is that an enduro bike has even more reserves and is therefore more forgiving of riding errors. But I think that for the masses, a well-built trail bike is sufficient overall, as the range of use can be so widely diversified. On the other hand, you can see (excuse the expression) how pointless a downhill bike is these days. But hey, the bottom line is that we all want to have as much fun as possible on the trails!
It also comes down to how the kinematics of the bike favor certain riding styles. To use other SC bikes for an example, the Hightower is a wonderfully poppy and playful rowdy trail bike, but would be out of its element being a "mini enduro" bike. For comparison the Transition Sentinel is the very definition of a "mini enduro" bike, it's much more of a stable, planted speed demon. The Ibis Ripmo sort of splits the difference, but leans more towards the enduro side and feels more sorted doing big bike things than the Hightower, the Ripmo that I rode for 3 years was set up like a mini-enduro and it didn't do half bad in that setup. All 3 bikes fall into that 150 travel class.
Spectral “short travel”???!! I’m fairly sure Ritchie Rude rode a Yeti SB150 on the EWS…fairly sure he won a few too! Wouldn’t necessarily call a 150mm travel bike “short travel”…unless of course the frames of reference have shifted (appreciate Yeti now have the SB160 replacing the SB150)… Is it “marketing”? I say just ride what works for you!!
The giant slacked out sled bikes don't win EWS/EDR races, but only pros are going to be able to push a smaller bike THAT hard on that type of terrain. The giant slack bikes let us mere mortals ride really rowdy trails with more confidence and less chance of ending up in hospital.
Canyon and most other brands put the 150 bikes under the trail category. There is quite a big difference between a race bred 170 and a trail oriented 150. Swapping from a spec enduro to a stumpjunper evo was quite a change. Local terrain also dictates whether you see a 130 vs 150 bike as a trail bike. It's worth noting I can put down similar times on the stump jumper compared to old times on the enduro, but the ride quality, kinematic feel, and the ability to hit true enduro runs consecutively are noticeably different.
Would LOVE to see you guys make a video comparing what you think are the top five 27.5 hard tails. Who’s with me? Really wish Trek kept the Roscoe a 27.5 Or maybe even your top 27.5 or mixed wheel HT’s (including Blake’s beloved Nukeproof Scout, of course) up against the new generation Roscoe with its 29’s. Would love a reason to pick up something other than another Roscoe for my new HT in spring. Enlighten us 🤘🏼
I think we all overbike at the beginning, then when we realise we’re not world champions, we realise we’ve actually overbiked… personally I think underbiking helps you progress more quickly.
"average mountain bikers can be tempted to overbike and buy a bike for what they wish they were doing, not actually for what they are doing" Man I really fell for this trap a few years ago. Now making peace with the fact that I have too much bike for our trails and considering saving up for an XC/ downcountry bike.
The right bike will always be optimal but in my experience being overbiked is just bland and boring because the suspension dulls the trail too much, while being underbiked is a ton of fun and very good skill training. I took my sc 5010 (130/140mm playbike) to the bikepark a couple of weeks ago. The more choppy/rooty trails would have been considerably faster on my nomad but on jumps or steep tech stuff it’s a blast. Bike and body did take a beating though so it does come at a cost.
I'd love to see a Jones LWB in a comparison like this, but mostly just to see where it would fall. While having no suspension they do surprisingly well in technical terrain and single track - far better than you'd expect for such a rigid bike. Not saying it would win any of these categories. Honestly I am just curious in an apple to apples comparison.
I really like downhill bikes for its error margin. If you like natural trails and have lift access just go for it. They are not the fastest on mellow trails but are very comfortable on any enduro trail and are confidence inspiring on downhill tracks, where even riding super enduro bikes will feel underbiked. There is a big downsize to dh bike, its blue trails. You just cant get enough speed there. But other than that they are superb machines. Enduro bike will always have some compromise in terms of riding downhill. I did buy new Canyon Torque though now to see how much chunk can the bike eat before it throws me off the saddle.
the problem with any videos like this comparing bikes and times is always the same thing, one run. imo you really need to do 3 runs with each bike and average the times for each. there are too many variables for each run to definitively say one bike is faster than another with just one run
I found that my Stumpjumper with 140mm 130mm pretty much give me the most fun overall. All I do is switch the tyres from the XC spectrum to Enduro to match the trails. Also the flip chip make a very noticeable difference how the bike feels and handles.
Uhm that's not exactly underbiked by most people's version of the term... Underbiked for that trail would be something closer to 100-120mm front and rear and possibly more towards XC.
you are not telling us what to buy but the new ralon is the fastest, most fun and the one you would buy and orbea is the chanel sponsor per coincidence. what a surprise.
Another sales video with content not much related with title... I do not know why I bother opening GMBN anymore.. will have to discuss with my algorithms
#askgmbntech Hello, I have a 2022 Rocky Mountain Instinct and just put a Fox Factory 36 w/grip2 fork with a 44 offset from a 42 stock on and went from 150mm to 160mm. The bike comes 140mm/150mm, the ride 9 position is in 1 the slackest at 65.1. How much of a difference will this make over all? Thx! Also this trail bike with travel is perfect for me, I think going up to an enduro would be more bike for what I currently do. Great vid.
If you have the carbon instinct you can have 2 bikes in 1. The carbon Instinct and Altitude frames are identical, you just swap out the shock, shock mount and fork travel to switch. going up 10mm in front travel is usually like .3 degrees slacker. I have the Altitude and it honestly never feels like the wrong bike, even when its majorly overkill. It's also not crazy long or slack, with the ride 9 in pos 1 it's only 64.4 HTA
Always amuses me people that over spec. Rode Top cheif on a 100mm Fatty (4.8 tyres) and Blue Doon Rode Blue doon, Top Cheif and the Downhill WC track on a 150mm On One Hello Dave 2.8/3.0 tyres. People there with 200mm monsters and the guy infront of me was on a 26er Kona Coiler from the mid Naughties kicking it. People just want expensive long travel for the looks and Kudos and feel good factor not because it's the best tool for the job.
I have an enduro bike, which is definitely "over-biked' for my local trails, which are all cross county in nature. However, I'm in my mid 60's, and appreciate the extra comfort. Plus, we do travel 2-3 times a year to ride more challenging trails, and it's nice to have confidence that my bike (and I) will be confident about our capabilities.
I'd probably question whether a less experienced rider (like myself!) would feel a significant difference between a trail and enduro bike. It'd probably be interesting seeing a few new-ish riders out on a range of bikes and seeing their takes on them, as a lot of newer riders probably only have experience of hardtails
Imho the biggest difference in feel comes down to tyrechoice. Put a heavy DD casing for aggressive riding on your trailbike and it will feel heavy and slow on the uphill and grippy/more secure on the downhill. Using the same tyre combo on a trail vs a (non-extreme) enduro bike shouldn't make much of a difference, unless you are racing. The 20mm difference on the suspension might help an inexperienced rider on some line choice mistakes/sloppy jumping, but the difference would be negligible, because you're not riding as fast and/or in as technical challenging terrain as a beginner. I.e. pick the bike that is tailored to the stuff you'll be riding on a regular basis; most of the full suspension bikes nowadays are capable enough, even the short travel models, and the deciding factor is the person riding the bike.
Look at a modern enduro bike as a downhill bike that you can pedal uphill. So unless you have the abilities and skills / confidence to ride pretty challenging trails e.g. the Slab Track at Dyfi then you don't really need an enduro. If you are less experienced and ride an enduro bike it's going to be pretty dead and unchallenging for you. If you started with a trail bike then hit a point where you wanted to go further and the bike is holding you back, then maybe consider an enduro rig.
You definitely feel the difference, I’m not a pro but can definitely feel the difference between bikes and use the ones I’ve got for their intended style… usually…😬
For a new-ish rider on green/blue trails without a lot of fast downhill an enduro bike will probably feel big and ponderous. but they will feel very confident on downhill tech. If you're at the point where you're leaning the bike over to corner, are comfortable with jumping and are already pumping the bike on trail features even on regular trails, then you might be able to get some speed out of an enduro bike to the point where it comes alive.
I tend to go with over biked as it's easy to adjust the suspension for the trail you're riding that day. Under biked means you probably have multiple bikes for different things and it's not really affordable with current pricing.
Fun topic, I definitely enjoy over-biking 👍 Not because I wish I were riding double blacks, but because I enjoy being comfortable lol and, as an average rider, it gives me more confidence on sketchy features when I come across them.
The thing is, you can also build your trail bike with Enduro parts, but keep it mid travel. Ive seen alot of trail bikes with 150/140 travel-27.5 or even 140/130 29ers running 4 piston brakes big 200mm+ rotors, 35/36 mm stanchions fork, rear shocks with piggybacks, enduro tires. You could definitely build a mid travel Burly bike.
bumped my Yeti SB 5.5 up to a Fox 38x170 and have burly wheels on it. Looking to get an insanely light (but tough) wheel set with light trail tires on it so it’s more fun on my local trails that I usually ride my SS hard tail (160mm Ohlins coil) on. I love tweaking my bikes to fit my terrain and riding style. the companies have to cater to sales volume so they generally don’t excel in specific areas within their product lineups
I've just finished exactly that build. SC Hightower frame (so 145mm shock) but Fox 36 160mm, Hope Tech 4 E4 brakes (200F/180R), DT Swiss XMC 1501 wheels, 180mm dropper, SRAM AXS X01 drivetrain. Minion DHR II front and back. Very much in the All Mountain box, but it weighs exactly 14kg inc pedals, so it's a great trail bike that can also get me down anything without big drops (or anything within my ability!!). I love it.
@@SprSonik13I'd definitely recommend the DT Swiss XMC 1501 wheels if they're in your budget. Just over 1500g for the pair, but All Mountain rated. I love them (altho the DT Swiss 240 hubs are a bit loud).
I did this on both my previous bikes which weren't enduro bikes. My Giant Trance had SLX 2 pots, 203mm rotor up front, front travel extended to 160mm and Assegai/Dissector tire combo. My Ibis Ripmo had a set of DT Swiss FR560 wheels (got tired of killing Ibis rims), XT 4 pots with 203mm rotors at both ends, cascade link, DVO Onyx fork, and cushcore out back. Each was fun in its own way, the Giant was a great little jumper but too short and outdated geo for steep tech. The Ripmo just did everything pretty well and was fairly confident on steep tech. I now have a full on 160/170 travel enduro bike and the difference on faster terrain is night and day even vs the 151/160 travel Ibis. The Ripmo felt fine on big bike terrain, but the enduro bike feels like an absolute weapon on the same terrain.
I’m an older riders with a great deal of experience, in my case mostly off-road motorcycle racing, but have ridden bikes for decades and stayed pretty darned fit. Guys like me will trade off the extra thrill of a lighter, livelier bike for the extra control/safety of a more capable bike. Turning the pedals has never been my problem. Avoiding crashes and injury are very important. So yeah, I’ll work a little harder and perhaps arrive a little later but I want to get there in one piece no matter what the terrain offers up. I’m riding a Specialized Stumpjumper Evo expert with 150/160mm travel and don’t find it at all unmanageable. I’m 73yrs, 169mm and 61 kilos.
Sorry, but that comparison makes no real sense to me. You should have taken a short travel trail bike, such as 130mm f/r or maybe a hardtail as well, then compare it to an AM/Enduro (more like 160mm) and a DH. And then test it on more than one track. This would lead to clearer results, and as the other already mentioned: a spectral 150mm is nowhere near under-biked in my opinion.
Maybe there not bothered about being efficient, not everyone is chasing times trying to get miles done quick. Some people are just destressing in comfort and keeping fit some are just having fun. Ride what you like to ride I say
seems the only way to truly compare is to run the same wheels and tires on the trail in Enduro bikes. That way you’re seeing the differences purely from the frame/suspension. I used to run a heavy, aggressive, tire wheel set and a light fast tire wheel set on the same bike, and it completely changed the bike. I went from a fleet of bikes down to one aggressive hard tail and one big trail bike when I realized that wheel entire selection made much more difference than 20 mm of travel and 1/2 degree in the head tube
150/160 for underbiked? Lol. That’s an all mountain bike- should be able to handle that trail and more just fine. I know, it’s what I ride. Would like to have seen a 120/130 bike for the underbiked bike- something like the Ibis Ripley or SC Tallboy. Because IMO geo and the linkage is so much more important than just amount of travel. Longer, slacker, tougher components (like a 36 or Lyric) with a linkage that doesn’t have a quick harsh bottom out on a shorter travel bike will let that bike go much bigger. Likewise, the opposite on a longer travel bike is still gonna feel sketch at 35 mph through gnar. And since most bikes are built with short seat tubes you can size up or down to get your preferred geo on a bike with any amount of travel, so you really can build exactly the bike you want. Even two of the same model bikes will feel different and handle different stuff better depending on how they are built.
150mm fork with 35 or 36 mm stanchions and a 140 mm rear is my sweet spot for a trail bike. Put some better tires on the Spectral and i bet the times are the same as the enduro bike.
That's not underbike, that's more than enough bike, I ride that bike but with fox suspensions down some downhill trails worse than the one here in this video and its more than capable, do a real underbike with a 130mm or an hardtail
I bought a pivot trail 429 this year and then demoed a pivot shadowcat a few months later. The cat climbed just as well as the 429 but is better downhill with more suspension travel. So if the bigger suspension bikes can climb as well as the shorter travel bikes, why would anyone want the shorter travel bike?
Go demo a Firebird, then wonder why you even bothered getting the trail 429 (go down 1 frame size though, Firebird runs big). The Firebird legit pedals better than the trail 429, despite being an enduro bike. My take on the Trail 429 was the geo and front end loves writing checks the rear suspension can't cash, really felt like the front end of an aggressive trail bike and the back end of an XC bike.
@@mrvwbug4423 ya. I would agree with that. I’m in Minnesota so I really don’t need a bigger travel bike is what i thought but now it’s like “why not though” if it pedals as efficiently
In the last 4 years the definition of each categories has increased by 10-20mm across the board. I remember when everyone thought the Norco sight was an enduro bike.
Fair to say Dyfi isn't a great barometer of under vs over biked. That's the bike park that has developed a reputation for being unrideable by anyone short of a pro (most of its trails are pro lines). My current bike is a RM Altitude, yes it's a proper enduro bike, but manages to be more lively even on blue trails and more comfortable for big pedal days than the Ibis Ripmo I had before it. It's unreal ability to carry speed makes even blue trails fun on it, because you start railing corners and try to send it off every rock and root. The plush ride of the enduro bike is also nice for comfort, especially when you're not in your 20s or 30s anymore.
I ride a 150/140 Trek Fuel EX, it gives me plenty of travel for chunk but I can flip the Minot link and adjust the compression settings on days when I’m just doing XC riding with my wife(she’s 120/120)…it works well for me and my 56 year old knees.
I only have a hardtail with 130 forks, I'm super underbiked but whatever its still overbiked for trails compared to my BMX so whatever, I'll send it down what I can, if I cant get down something with my hardtail I probably wouldnt attempt it with an enduro either, I've seen plenty of trails with stuff so steep I dont understand how anyone rides down that stuff on any bike, it sucks walking down when your already part way into a trail that you didnt anticipate having a garbage section part way through but it is what it is, no bike can save you from breaking your neck.
Overbiked all the way for me! It gives you a bit of room for error, it you do go off line and take a big compression you’ve got the travel to take the hit if you’ve got less travel your going to feel it! My bikes saved me countless times!😂
The don's the best gmbn presenter in my opinion , always solid content and no childish nonsense like the other presenters are getting into more and more .
I take my Enduro bike to the Swiss Alps, but for the local hills at home I take my hardtail. Enduro bike is totally over biked for the local trails and the soft compound tires suck the life out of me on the uphill 😆
Ive never had more than 100mm on any of my bikes and I seem to be going as fast as anyone else. I prefer light and fast to heavy and more sus. On the trails I ride its more than enough. Im actually building a Sworks epic frame up that only has 95mm rear travel. Steep head angles dont bother me either. Ive been riding 33 years so im used to it.
I am riding a 160/160 Enduro Bike but with relatively fast rolling tires. Currently on trail casing Vittoria Martello (fr) Aggaro (re). Guess you could say the bike is undertired ;) For how I use it I find that´s a pretty good compromise though. Normally riding a mix of longer distance touring on natural trails /singletrack for which a short travel trail bike would be more appropriate and a good bit of bikepark where the extra suspension travel and burlier frame are nice for jumps and drops but the trails are mostly hardpack. I am giving up a bit of all out grip but with the faster rolling tires I don´t find much difference in terms of efficiency compared to a shorter travel bike.
What I've been learning is that being over biked or underbiked sucks. Having the right bike for the job is where it's at. A 2 bike quiver with a short travel trail and enduro bike is where it's at.
Interesting subject, even after almost 30 years practicing mtb. I personaly have often been overbiked. Last example was my Rocky Altitude. I felt confident but after 3 hours riding with my friends, I was always exhausted, My actual bike is an Orange Stage Evo, just a 130/120 travel. But I really prefer this one. It is much more dynamic, so I am less tired during long rides. And when I go in the mountains, I still have plenty of sensentions. So my advise will be: Buy the good bike for your local trails, not for those you ride twice a year.
150/160 is not really a trail bike. I think they should redo the test with a 140/140 trail bike instead
It’s NOT a trail bike it’s more a baby enduro or All mountain. Neil just wanted an excuse to ride the 150 spectral and bit his self in the A*s doing it! Now everyone is talking 💩 in the comments😂😂🤣
My 130mm/130mm, 27.5" trail bike is being slowly rebranded into an XC bike!
I agree, trail bike should be up to 130mm travel
up to? no@@taranveerkarir9203
My trail bike has 138 150.
Spectral isn't really under-biked for that terrain though 🤷♂️
Came here to say exactly this. 160/150 travel is pretty much Enduro category anyway, which is what Canyon categorise it as.
It would be interesting to see how it would be on a 120/120 travel bike?
yeah right dim tordo even raced the spectral in many enduro worldcup races
@@colincoulthard3021 yeah, going 10/15 mm shorter travel shouldnt be meaningful, i bet tyres were more influential than the bike itself
140 mm is never under-biked unless you are doing freeride. even running it on uci world cup dh tracks is sufficient enough unless you want to win. but for weekend rides? nah, its fun enough.
Yeah the Spectral just goes nomnomnom on that kind of trail
Thank you for the comparison video. I feel like this does help people consider what they really want to use their bike for. Me, I’m 40 and ride a Marin rift zone XR which is 130/140. Before that I exclusively rode around on a hard tail and learned how to let the bike move underneath me quite well. My trail bike has opened up a whole world of playful opportunities!
Nice insight as usual Neil. So many variables but I think age and how much your body is hammered plays a part. I've been riding since '92 and had a fair few injuries. I lean on the overbiked side purely for comfort and having a bit more to play with on the rougher stuff as you mention.
I think i agree now 😀
Same. Even my road bike has 50mm seat suspension
Young guys at the bike shop I purchase my bikes from are ALWAYS under biking me. I have to remind them I am a geezer.
@@BlackMan614 I've not had a great experience with advice at bike shops.. I seem to get "you want a road/MTB/etc bike? There they are. More money equals better, it's just a question of what you're willing to spend. The bike has to be name-matched to the task (road for road). If that doesn't work for you, you need to accept that."
Things like the 175mm cranks (right size for 5'11"/1.8m rider) being slapped on everything have highlighted for me that bike companies/sellers don't care if it's right for the owner.
Not sure if it's a British thing. But, I would certainly put a 150/160 bike into enduro category. A 120 to 140 max would be more of a "trail" bike.
150/160mm is a trail bike now?!
That's what I said, LOL. My trail is 130/140, enduro is 160/170
Yep, not a good video, 150/160 isn't a short travel trail bike
yeah my trail is 140/140
150/160 is definitely an enduro by my standard
Canyon categorizes the Spectral as enduro!
Your videos are usually excellent, and the concept here is interesting. However, even Canyon categorizes the Spectral as an enduro bike. There was not nearly enough contrast.
For restitution, you should redo the video with the Orbea against a Spectral 125 and a hardtail.
You’re trying to kill the poor guy! Mind you ….
I thought he was gonna do a downhill, enduro and cross country initially
A 125 travel bike and a hardtail might break at Dyfi, people don't realize how insane that bike park is. Dyfi was built to train pro DH racers and most of the trails are pro lines (beyond double black).
would love to see how a short travel vs long travel version of the same bike compare. The Canyon Spectral comes in 150 and 125 versions.
I rode my Whyte T-140 down those exact trails; never once did I feel out of my depth, but I would have been happier on an enduro bike
If you're confident on Dyfi trails, then you're well above the skill level of the average rider. So you're probably one of those who likes to ride underbiked for the challenge.
Third. I prefer to be over biked so I can take those big hits without bottoming out
Spectral 29 is a pure enduro bike, Spectral 125 and Neuron are trail bikes ;)
As someone who rides an enduro bike and has previously owned an Ibis Ripmo and a trail bike before that, no a 150 travel bike is not an enduro bike. 150 travel is usually called "All Mountain" as they kinda fit between trail and enduro. Once the speeds come up even that 10mm difference in travel between a 150/160 bike and a 160/170 bike becomes very apparent. The enduro bike is just on another level in terms of stability and ability to carry speed, they also tend to corner better than trail/AM bikes. At slow speeds though, the enduro bike might feel a little lifeless.
If you consider things from purely Enduro racing, sure, however for most users it's not a trail bike, it is even listed under the enduro category on the website.
Fun wins out over what the clock says unless racing. Personally I prefer the extra margin a DH bike gives me.
I consider 150/160 enduro. My trail bike is 115/130.
That's xc these days 😜
Not much, mine is 120 rear 130 front, and it handles everything just fine, including double black downhill bike park tracks, suspension travel along with head angle has mostly become a sales pitch by manufacturers to try and convince people to buy new bikes.
Exactly! That’s a trail bike , not an enduro light!
@@rubberside3969 i think it just comes down to riding style. if you like to ride slow and pick your way through stuff it doesnt matter, but those things start to become very noticeable when youre blasting through chunk
@@sam61480 Depends on the trails too. You can defintiely pick your way down a double black DH track, if the trail can be ridden that slowly. Example, in Moab you can ride the double black trail Captain Ahab on pretty much anything since it's mostly super grippy slickrock which can be ridden as slow as you like. Try that on Top of the World in Whistler and you're going off a cliff, Whistler rock is not grippy at all and you MUST go fast down rocky sections in Whistler or you're going to end up in a slide and crashing.
I agrée about buying for what you want to be riding. I should probably have gotten a long travel, full sus XC bike rather tu an a trail bike, but I love riding my trail bike so much and I can take it on everything I want to ride. Seem to be the conclusion of Neil’s video really is, you are fastest on what you are most confident on !
Was good to have a chat with you on the day bud, really interesting look at riding Iv done similar as I had a polygon Siskiu D5 now riding a specialized BIGHIT 1 with tripples I’m definitely over biked now but feels so much more comfortable at DYFi.
Underbiked HT all day. Pain is gain lol
Les Gets with my HT, some people just shook their heads in disbelief 😅
I too hate having ankles
If the bike is fitted for me I would definitely go with more suspension travel than not !
Neil gets it
i've thought about getting a slopestyle bike for my intermediate riding where i want a bit more than a hardtail but not quite a "real" full sus. Even my enduro is just an over-built trail bike (140/140)
Slopestyle bikes are kinda niche though. Maybe worth it if you spend all day on jump lines, not great for riding trails.
When did we start calling 160/150 short travel?
My personal thought:
I love my enduro bike and wouldn't give it up for any money in the world ( Custom Nomad V4 )! Nevertheless, I have to and want to say that even trail bikes are so incredibly capable. With just a few adjustments and tweaks, you can build yourself a "mini enduro". Especially when it comes to suspension settings and tyre choice, you can create so much support even for very rough trails. And 150 mm of suspension travel is in no way "short travel". What is certain, however, is that an enduro bike has even more reserves and is therefore more forgiving of riding errors. But I think that for the masses, a well-built trail bike is sufficient overall, as the range of use can be so widely diversified.
On the other hand, you can see (excuse the expression) how pointless a downhill bike is these days.
But hey, the bottom line is that we all want to have as much fun as possible on the trails!
It also comes down to how the kinematics of the bike favor certain riding styles. To use other SC bikes for an example, the Hightower is a wonderfully poppy and playful rowdy trail bike, but would be out of its element being a "mini enduro" bike. For comparison the Transition Sentinel is the very definition of a "mini enduro" bike, it's much more of a stable, planted speed demon. The Ibis Ripmo sort of splits the difference, but leans more towards the enduro side and feels more sorted doing big bike things than the Hightower, the Ripmo that I rode for 3 years was set up like a mini-enduro and it didn't do half bad in that setup. All 3 bikes fall into that 150 travel class.
Spectral “short travel”???!! I’m fairly sure Ritchie Rude rode a Yeti SB150 on the EWS…fairly sure he won a few too! Wouldn’t necessarily call a 150mm travel bike “short travel”…unless of course the frames of reference have shifted (appreciate Yeti now have the SB160 replacing the SB150)…
Is it “marketing”? I say just ride what works for you!!
The giant slacked out sled bikes don't win EWS/EDR races, but only pros are going to be able to push a smaller bike THAT hard on that type of terrain. The giant slack bikes let us mere mortals ride really rowdy trails with more confidence and less chance of ending up in hospital.
lol where’s the xc bike😂😂😂😂
120mm is good for the stuff inride 130 to 140 is perfect
I find myself riding my Commencal Tempo more than my Stumpy Evo. It makes the more mundane trails way more interesting
Canyon and most other brands put the 150 bikes under the trail category. There is quite a big difference between a race bred 170 and a trail oriented 150. Swapping from a spec enduro to a stumpjunper evo was quite a change. Local terrain also dictates whether you see a 130 vs 150 bike as a trail bike.
It's worth noting I can put down similar times on the stump jumper compared to old times on the enduro, but the ride quality, kinematic feel, and the ability to hit true enduro runs consecutively are noticeably different.
Would LOVE to see you guys make a video comparing what you think are the top five 27.5 hard tails. Who’s with me? Really wish Trek kept the Roscoe a 27.5
Or maybe even your top 27.5 or mixed wheel HT’s (including Blake’s beloved Nukeproof Scout, of course) up against the new generation Roscoe with its 29’s. Would love a reason to pick up something other than another Roscoe for my new HT in spring. Enlighten us 🤘🏼
gotta do the uphill climbing times!!!!
I bought the canyon spectral as well, after 2 years of riding it, wished I'd bought strive. Overbiked for sure
I rock under or over-biked with a rigid ss or a 200/165 freeride machine. Its fun to be spicy on xc to enduro on the ss XD
That Rallon is such a sweet plow. If only they were a bit cheaper, though.
I think we all overbike at the beginning, then when we realise we’re not world champions, we realise we’ve actually overbiked… personally I think underbiking helps you progress more quickly.
"average mountain bikers can be tempted to overbike and buy a bike for what they wish they were doing, not actually for what they are doing"
Man I really fell for this trap a few years ago. Now making peace with the fact that I have too much bike for our trails and considering saving up for an XC/ downcountry bike.
The right bike will always be optimal but in my experience being overbiked is just bland and boring because the suspension dulls the trail too much, while being underbiked is a ton of fun and very good skill training. I took my sc 5010 (130/140mm playbike) to the bikepark a couple of weeks ago. The more choppy/rooty trails would have been considerably faster on my nomad but on jumps or steep tech stuff it’s a blast. Bike and body did take a beating though so it does come at a cost.
I'd love to see a Jones LWB in a comparison like this, but mostly just to see where it would fall. While having no suspension they do surprisingly well in technical terrain and single track - far better than you'd expect for such a rigid bike. Not saying it would win any of these categories. Honestly I am just curious in an apple to apples comparison.
I really like downhill bikes for its error margin. If you like natural trails and have lift access just go for it. They are not the fastest on mellow trails but are very comfortable on any enduro trail and are confidence inspiring on downhill tracks, where even riding super enduro bikes will feel underbiked. There is a big downsize to dh bike, its blue trails. You just cant get enough speed there. But other than that they are superb machines. Enduro bike will always have some compromise in terms of riding downhill. I did buy new Canyon Torque though now to see how much chunk can the bike eat before it throws me off the saddle.
2003 Kona stinky is the best bike haha ❤❤
Confounding variable- the order of the runs. Getting more tired each time and slowing down?
Under biked is definitely way more fun!
Except on a proper WC level DH track
There is no travel except for downhill forks where too much front suspension is over biked
Neil now has 3 bikes to wash. Must be good being GMBN presenter in England.
the problem with any videos like this comparing bikes and times is always the same thing, one run. imo you really need to do 3 runs with each bike and average the times for each. there are too many variables for each run to definitively say one bike is faster than another with just one run
DH gives me superpowers to send bigger
Spectral is an enduro/all mountain bike?? Definitely not underbiked in this example. Should try a test with a trail bike thats 120- 130.
I found that my Stumpjumper with 140mm 130mm pretty much give me the most fun overall. All I do is switch the tyres from the XC spectrum to Enduro to match the trails.
Also the flip chip make a very noticeable difference how the bike feels and handles.
Buy a bike for what you ride most of. Simple.
Let's see which performs best going round the edge of a muddy ploughed field that makes up a lot of uk day to day off-roading :)
Uhm that's not exactly underbiked by most people's version of the term...
Underbiked for that trail would be something closer to 100-120mm front and rear and possibly more towards XC.
I have a Vitus Sommet (Enduro) and an Orbea Oiz (XC). That is all. Just wanted everyone to know what bikes I have.
you are not telling us what to buy but the new ralon is the fastest, most fun and the one you would buy and orbea is the chanel sponsor per coincidence. what a surprise.
Another sales video with content not much related with title... I do not know why I bother opening GMBN anymore.. will have to discuss with my algorithms
This is why enduro bikes are so popular. But I guess it really depends on where u ride right.
I don’t care about speed, I’m more concerned with the fun factor and how confidence inspiring the ride is.
Which one was more fun?
Yeah, really should have done a 120/130 travel for the trail bike...
This man is far from reality, I wonder why he is kept in BMBN
#askgmbntech Hello, I have a 2022 Rocky Mountain Instinct and just put a Fox Factory 36 w/grip2 fork with a 44 offset from a 42 stock on and went from 150mm to 160mm. The bike comes 140mm/150mm, the ride 9 position is in 1 the slackest at 65.1. How much of a difference will this make over all? Thx!
Also this trail bike with travel is perfect for me, I think going up to an enduro would be more bike for what I currently do. Great vid.
If you have the carbon instinct you can have 2 bikes in 1. The carbon Instinct and Altitude frames are identical, you just swap out the shock, shock mount and fork travel to switch. going up 10mm in front travel is usually like .3 degrees slacker. I have the Altitude and it honestly never feels like the wrong bike, even when its majorly overkill. It's also not crazy long or slack, with the ride 9 in pos 1 it's only 64.4 HTA
Build your dreams.
I can't get past 120/130 since I enjoy climbing and light bikes. If I'm going to deal with an extra 6-8lbs of bike I might as well buy an eBike; not!
Always amuses me people that over spec.
Rode Top cheif on a 100mm Fatty (4.8 tyres) and Blue Doon
Rode Blue doon, Top Cheif and the Downhill WC track on a 150mm On One Hello Dave 2.8/3.0 tyres.
People there with 200mm monsters and the guy infront of me was on a 26er Kona Coiler from the mid Naughties kicking it. People just want expensive long travel for the looks and Kudos and feel good factor not because it's the best tool for the job.
I would have liked the video more if it was the baby Canyon Spectral 125, for a bigger contrast.
Definitely, I've the 125 and every trail is party time, I enjoy being under biked.
A 125 travel bike at Dyfi? I don't know which would break first, the bike or Neil?
@@mrvwbug4423 its 140f125r and same geo
I have an enduro bike, which is definitely "over-biked' for my local trails, which are all cross county in nature. However, I'm in my mid 60's, and appreciate the extra comfort. Plus, we do travel 2-3 times a year to ride more challenging trails, and it's nice to have confidence that my bike (and I) will be confident about our capabilities.
I'd probably question whether a less experienced rider (like myself!) would feel a significant difference between a trail and enduro bike. It'd probably be interesting seeing a few new-ish riders out on a range of bikes and seeing their takes on them, as a lot of newer riders probably only have experience of hardtails
Probably not, because you’re likely to be riding both well within their capabilities. The trail bike would be nicer to pedal uphill.
Imho the biggest difference in feel comes down to tyrechoice.
Put a heavy DD casing for aggressive riding on your trailbike and it will feel heavy and slow on the uphill and grippy/more secure on the downhill.
Using the same tyre combo on a trail vs a (non-extreme) enduro bike shouldn't make much of a difference, unless you are racing. The 20mm difference on the suspension might help an inexperienced rider on some line choice mistakes/sloppy jumping, but the difference would be negligible, because you're not riding as fast and/or in as technical challenging terrain as a beginner.
I.e. pick the bike that is tailored to the stuff you'll be riding on a regular basis; most of the full suspension bikes nowadays are capable enough, even the short travel models, and the deciding factor is the person riding the bike.
Look at a modern enduro bike as a downhill bike that you can pedal uphill. So unless you have the abilities and skills / confidence to ride pretty challenging trails e.g. the Slab Track at Dyfi then you don't really need an enduro. If you are less experienced and ride an enduro bike it's going to be pretty dead and unchallenging for you. If you started with a trail bike then hit a point where you wanted to go further and the bike is holding you back, then maybe consider an enduro rig.
You definitely feel the difference, I’m not a pro but can definitely feel the difference between bikes and use the ones I’ve got for their intended style… usually…😬
For a new-ish rider on green/blue trails without a lot of fast downhill an enduro bike will probably feel big and ponderous. but they will feel very confident on downhill tech. If you're at the point where you're leaning the bike over to corner, are comfortable with jumping and are already pumping the bike on trail features even on regular trails, then you might be able to get some speed out of an enduro bike to the point where it comes alive.
I’m over 50 and I need 300mm travel front and rear for my Florida trails lol
This one made me chuckle
I tend to go with over biked as it's easy to adjust the suspension for the trail you're riding that day. Under biked means you probably have multiple bikes for different things and it's not really affordable with current pricing.
100 mm xc hardtails for everything that i ride whitout a dropper.
Fun topic, I definitely enjoy over-biking 👍 Not because I wish I were riding double blacks, but because I enjoy being comfortable lol and, as an average rider, it gives me more confidence on sketchy features when I come across them.
The thing is, you can also build your trail bike with Enduro parts, but keep it mid travel. Ive seen alot of trail bikes with 150/140 travel-27.5 or even 140/130 29ers running 4 piston brakes big 200mm+ rotors, 35/36 mm stanchions fork, rear shocks with piggybacks, enduro tires. You could definitely build a mid travel Burly bike.
bumped my Yeti SB 5.5 up to a Fox 38x170 and have burly wheels on it. Looking to get an insanely light (but tough) wheel set with light trail tires on it so it’s more fun on my local trails that I usually ride my SS hard tail (160mm Ohlins coil) on. I love tweaking my bikes to fit my terrain and riding style. the companies have to cater to sales volume so they generally don’t excel in specific areas within their product lineups
I've just finished exactly that build. SC Hightower frame (so 145mm shock) but Fox 36 160mm, Hope Tech 4 E4 brakes (200F/180R), DT Swiss XMC 1501 wheels, 180mm dropper, SRAM AXS X01 drivetrain. Minion DHR II front and back. Very much in the All Mountain box, but it weighs exactly 14kg inc pedals, so it's a great trail bike that can also get me down anything without big drops (or anything within my ability!!). I love it.
@@SprSonik13I'd definitely recommend the DT Swiss XMC 1501 wheels if they're in your budget. Just over 1500g for the pair, but All Mountain rated. I love them (altho the DT Swiss 240 hubs are a bit loud).
I did this on both my previous bikes which weren't enduro bikes. My Giant Trance had SLX 2 pots, 203mm rotor up front, front travel extended to 160mm and Assegai/Dissector tire combo. My Ibis Ripmo had a set of DT Swiss FR560 wheels (got tired of killing Ibis rims), XT 4 pots with 203mm rotors at both ends, cascade link, DVO Onyx fork, and cushcore out back. Each was fun in its own way, the Giant was a great little jumper but too short and outdated geo for steep tech. The Ripmo just did everything pretty well and was fairly confident on steep tech. I now have a full on 160/170 travel enduro bike and the difference on faster terrain is night and day even vs the 151/160 travel Ibis. The Ripmo felt fine on big bike terrain, but the enduro bike feels like an absolute weapon on the same terrain.
I’m an older riders with a great deal of experience, in my case mostly off-road motorcycle racing, but have ridden bikes for decades and stayed pretty darned fit. Guys like me will trade off the extra thrill of a lighter, livelier bike for the extra control/safety of a more capable bike. Turning the pedals has never been my problem. Avoiding crashes and injury are very important. So yeah, I’ll work a little harder and perhaps arrive a little later but I want to get there in one piece no matter what the terrain offers up. I’m riding a Specialized Stumpjumper Evo expert with 150/160mm travel and don’t find it at all unmanageable. I’m 73yrs, 169mm and 61 kilos.
Not that I expect anybody to care, but most riders would be better off “over biked”. Not having enough fun and thrills?? Then just go faster…
Well that is respect. I hope your joints stay in a very good condition as long as they can. 😅
Sorry, but that comparison makes no real sense to me. You should have taken a short travel trail bike, such as 130mm f/r or maybe a hardtail as well, then compare it to an AM/Enduro (more like 160mm) and a DH. And then test it on more than one track. This would lead to clearer results, and as the other already mentioned: a spectral 150mm is nowhere near under-biked in my opinion.
Most people are overbiked at the parks, nobody really wants to face the fact they’d be more efficient on a hardtail down the green runs.
Maybe there not bothered about being efficient, not everyone is chasing times trying to get miles done quick. Some people are just destressing in comfort and keeping fit some are just having fun. Ride what you like to ride I say
160/150 is short travel? I think you need to redo this one with a real short travel bike, something around 140/130
seems the only way to truly compare is to run the same wheels and tires on the trail in Enduro bikes. That way you’re seeing the differences purely from the frame/suspension. I used to run a heavy, aggressive, tire wheel set and a light fast tire wheel set on the same bike, and it completely changed the bike. I went from a fleet of bikes down to one aggressive hard tail and one big trail bike when I realized that wheel entire selection made much more difference than 20 mm of travel and 1/2 degree in the head tube
150/160 for underbiked? Lol. That’s an all mountain bike- should be able to handle that trail and more just fine. I know, it’s what I ride. Would like to have seen a 120/130 bike for the underbiked bike- something like the Ibis Ripley or SC Tallboy. Because IMO geo and the linkage is so much more important than just amount of travel. Longer, slacker, tougher components (like a 36 or Lyric) with a linkage that doesn’t have a quick harsh bottom out on a shorter travel bike will let that bike go much bigger. Likewise, the opposite on a longer travel bike is still gonna feel sketch at 35 mph through gnar. And since most bikes are built with short seat tubes you can size up or down to get your preferred geo on a bike with any amount of travel, so you really can build exactly the bike you want. Even two of the same model bikes will feel different and handle different stuff better depending on how they are built.
Well done, I agree with what you said BUT you should do the same test on a more "natural" set of trails where pedalling is more prominent
Sorry gmbn I really like your vids but pls use a lux trail or a neuron for underbiked next time ❤
an XC bike would break at Dyfi
150mm fork with 35 or 36 mm stanchions and a 140 mm rear is my sweet spot for a trail bike. Put some better tires on the Spectral and i bet the times are the same as the enduro bike.
That's not underbike, that's more than enough bike, I ride that bike but with fox suspensions down some downhill trails worse than the one here in this video and its more than capable, do a real underbike with a 130mm or an hardtail
Are you trying to suggest I should own less bikes? Because you don't look anything like my girlfriend😂
I was hoping to see a gravel bike thrown into the test haha 💀
Are you trying to send Neil to hospital haha
I bought a pivot trail 429 this year and then demoed a pivot shadowcat a few months later. The cat climbed just as well as the 429 but is better downhill with more suspension travel. So if the bigger suspension bikes can climb as well as the shorter travel bikes, why would anyone want the shorter travel bike?
Go demo a Firebird, then wonder why you even bothered getting the trail 429 (go down 1 frame size though, Firebird runs big). The Firebird legit pedals better than the trail 429, despite being an enduro bike. My take on the Trail 429 was the geo and front end loves writing checks the rear suspension can't cash, really felt like the front end of an aggressive trail bike and the back end of an XC bike.
@@mrvwbug4423 ya. I would agree with that. I’m in Minnesota so I really don’t need a bigger travel bike is what i thought but now it’s like “why not though” if it pedals as efficiently
In the last 4 years the definition of each categories has increased by 10-20mm across the board.
I remember when everyone thought the Norco sight was an enduro bike.
Enduro bike vs slightly smaller enduro bike vs downhill bike.
I got an enduro bike. It works for just about everything and I'm not racing anybody ever
Fair to say Dyfi isn't a great barometer of under vs over biked. That's the bike park that has developed a reputation for being unrideable by anyone short of a pro (most of its trails are pro lines). My current bike is a RM Altitude, yes it's a proper enduro bike, but manages to be more lively even on blue trails and more comfortable for big pedal days than the Ibis Ripmo I had before it. It's unreal ability to carry speed makes even blue trails fun on it, because you start railing corners and try to send it off every rock and root. The plush ride of the enduro bike is also nice for comfort, especially when you're not in your 20s or 30s anymore.
I ride a 150/140 Trek Fuel EX, it gives me plenty of travel for chunk but I can flip the Minot link and adjust the compression settings on days when I’m just doing XC riding with my wife(she’s 120/120)…it works well for me and my 56 year old knees.
Really should have done a run on a hardtail. #ForScience 😂
I only have a hardtail with 130 forks, I'm super underbiked but whatever its still overbiked for trails compared to my BMX so whatever, I'll send it down what I can, if I cant get down something with my hardtail I probably wouldnt attempt it with an enduro either, I've seen plenty of trails with stuff so steep I dont understand how anyone rides down that stuff on any bike, it sucks walking down when your already part way into a trail that you didnt anticipate having a garbage section part way through but it is what it is, no bike can save you from breaking your neck.
Overbiked all the way for me! It gives you a bit of room for error, it you do go off line and take a big compression you’ve got the travel to take the hit if you’ve got less travel your going to feel it! My bikes saved me countless times!😂
I'd do all that on a 120/120 no problem at all whilst watching all the doctors and dentists bobbing along on big travel e-mtb's :p
The don's the best gmbn presenter in my opinion , always solid content and no childish nonsense like the other presenters are getting into more and more .
I take my Enduro bike to the Swiss Alps, but for the local hills at home I take my hardtail. Enduro bike is totally over biked for the local trails and the soft compound tires suck the life out of me on the uphill 😆
Size does matter but it's mostly how you use it.
This needs to be redone on a trail that isn't shuttled, I saw almost no pedaling.
Ive never had more than 100mm on any of my bikes and I seem to be going as fast as anyone else. I prefer light and fast to heavy and more sus. On the trails I ride its more than enough. Im actually building a Sworks epic frame up that only has 95mm rear travel.
Steep head angles dont bother me either. Ive been riding 33 years so im used to it.
I am riding a 160/160 Enduro Bike but with relatively fast rolling tires. Currently on trail casing Vittoria Martello (fr) Aggaro (re). Guess you could say the bike is undertired ;) For how I use it I find that´s a pretty good compromise though. Normally riding a mix of longer distance touring on natural trails /singletrack for which a short travel trail bike would be more appropriate and a good bit of bikepark where the extra suspension travel and burlier frame are nice for jumps and drops but the trails are mostly hardpack. I am giving up a bit of all out grip but with the faster rolling tires I don´t find much difference in terms of efficiency compared to a shorter travel bike.
I just bought a manitou mezzer so I guess I'll be able to easily figure it out!
Specialized enduro 170 / 180 for every trail 😂 i love being over biked
What I've been learning is that being over biked or underbiked sucks. Having the right bike for the job is where it's at. A 2 bike quiver with a short travel trail and enduro bike is where it's at.
I would say enduro and dh bike would be the best. Like canyon strive and sender duo. 😂
Interesting subject, even after almost 30 years practicing mtb. I personaly have often been overbiked. Last example was my Rocky Altitude. I felt confident but after 3 hours riding with my friends, I was always exhausted, My actual bike is an Orange Stage Evo, just a 130/120 travel. But I really prefer this one. It is much more dynamic, so I am less tired during long rides. And when I go in the mountains, I still have plenty of sensentions. So my advise will be: Buy the good bike for your local trails, not for those you ride twice a year.