OK I can put most of the speculation to bed from the comments below. I built this boat. Yes the main winch failed and they transferred the load to I think the running back stay winch. I'm not a sailor, just a boat builder. Either way it's like trying to break a stick with your hands close together and then moving them further apart. The boat wasn't designed to take the load applied at such a distance. PLUS... these boats weren't designed to be in conditions like this. They are flat water boats. The race should have been called off. If it was flat it probably wouldn't have broken even with the winch failure. A design flaw? In a way yes and no. It only had two bulk heads. Mast bulkhead and a keel bulkhead and both were mealy ring frames and not full bulkheads. But that wasn't the true problem IMO. The boat was as hollow as a drum. It sure was cutting edge but it had NO longitudinal strength. No beams running for and aft to stop it breaking in half. I brought this up three times but the big fella (Iain Murray) told me I wasn't being paid to think. All I wanted to do was put two short longitudinal beams running maybe a few meters for and aft of the keel box. But no. Weight was the key factor and the order of the day. I think if they were in it may not have broken. It certainly wasn't too thin a carbon layup. Why did it go down so fast? The hull and deck finished weighed only 1.1 tonnes. Incredibly light for an 80 ft maxi. The mast was 135 ft long and the single longest carbon structure ever produced. The mast had 40 tonnes of load pulling down on the mast bulkhead. But the cause of it sinking so fast was the foil and bulb attached below had over 17 tonnes of metal combined. The foil was solid stainless steel weighing 5 tonnes alone attached to a 12 tonne lead bulb below it with small stainless steel wings off of it. So a 1 tonne broken cork being pulled down by 17 tonnes of steel and lead. Down she went! It certainly wasn't badly built. It was a masterpiece of construction built to incredibly high standards. NASA standards. In fact NASA took interest in what we were doing as it was built to the same layup as the space shuttle and we were treading new ground and finding breaking points with new technology. Why did the three fellas stay on the front for so long? Because there was confusion as to if someone was still down below. You can see one guy leaning down shouting through the forward hatch. Inside was full of sails and nothing else. Up to two people are down there at any one time feeding sails up through the hatches or dragging them back down below. Throw in a few hundred tonnes of water and a recipe for disaster for anyone below. Once they were somewhat sure no one was below, they jumped off. They had no choice anyway. But the key point to make is that the Kiwi boat had the boat speed on us from the start. Even if nothing went wrong they were going to beat us hands down. If anyone has any questions please ask. Cheers
I think it was just a better design. I don't know where it was stronger, just that it was faster overall. As we now know the Kiwis were quietly making world beating boats, much to the worlds surprise.
Then need to reform the trans-Tasman agreement and also stop sending us their criminals and making us pay disability tax in Australia that we Kiwi's don't have access to tho...
Yeah that was crazy out there today. I was watching it live and with my parents and my dad said that the only way U.S.A could lose is if they capsized and then seconds later they did. It was insane but luckily no one was injured
Incredible footage. Thank God they weren't out there alone. Couldn't even get to their life boat! I can't believe how FAST that boat went down. Great reporting by the commentator and camera crew. Wow.
Then need to reform the trans-Tasman agreement and also stop sending us their criminals and making us pay disability tax in Australia that we don't have access to tho...
Felt sorry for these lads ..heart breaking stuff...what caused it to break apart? Strong rivalry between Ozzie's n Kiwis...good to see the kiwi chase boat picking them up!!
As an Aussie, the America’s Cup victory in 1983 is still the proudest sporting moment for me. I remember my tears of pride as a 9 y.o. And the OneAustralia sinking was the most embarrassing moment! (Or maybe it was Sand Paper Gate? Lol! ) I can handle getting beat by a better team, but to have the boat go down like that!! Bad things happen when management don’t listen to engineers and trades people.
I think both things were true weren't they? better team also - we in NZ found that out for ourselves when our best sailors from this cup went to Alinghi and spanked our ass in 2003 and 2007.
As an Aussie I don't see it as embarrassing. The commentary was hilarious. Sandpapergate was embarrassing and shameful, but the underarm incident was ten times worse. Especially since it was against our brothers across the ditch. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and the Kiwis will rightly never forget it.
As I recall, AC boats are designed for the AVERAGE wind speed of the venue. San Diego generally, has very light winds and the boats were designed with that in mind. In 87, when the cup was held in Fremantle, with heavy winds, the boats (12 meter rule, as opposed to 95's IACC), were designed for heavy winds and seas. King Cliff was right, when the race shouldn't have been held that day because it was an unusually windy day for San Diego and the boats weren't designed for it. Conversely, in 87, when there were unusual light winds, the race basically timed out.
Sorry mate! I just saw the original TVNZ show from which this came and it has this music all over it. I thought you had edited the video; my mistake :) In fact, thank you sooooo much for the memories brought back, watching this live down in Wellington. Cheers!
Came here to watch this after something similar happened yesterday evening to Kevin Escoffier somewehere between Gough Island Capetown. Hardly had time to make a call before the water shut down all the electronics. Hopefully he's been rescued by his follower in the race Jean Le Cam.
People are complaining about the current AC boats being prone to failure they should see this. I heard they had a jib wench fail and the moved the line back to a spinnaker wench, so basically they had both ends of the boat under tremendous load pulling at each other. One jarring wave and the boat was split in two. These boats were designed for SD light winds.
How embarrassing mates. I really feel for our Australian rivals... We even rescued their crew so... They'll never hear the end of it I guess, but we'll always be mates. What a shame, what a mess... that has gotta hurt more than a brutal tackle.
Yeah sorry about the music, this was taken from a TV show that aired in New Zealand after we won the Americas cup back in '95 so I didn't add the music. I'd get rid of it if I could!!
Well if you are making a regatta boat you want to make it as light as possible. Im 100% sure that the cause was too thin carbon laminate on hull. And thats nothing special.
Live in San Diego,that was big news back then.The Navy was going to recover it,(why),I don't know,never did.They interviewed the "skipper',on local tv Question.Did you think that you would sink? Answer.Oh yea,we were definatly going to sink!!!!!!
Far out! abandon ship.. The Banana Boat... Day Oh! (song) ... Ameicas Cup are racing in 2021.. I support my defending country.. win or lose.. cheers 🇳🇿
what was the deal with all the nearest boats not stopping to help?! the aussie chase boat just kinda drifted off screen, and the CAMERA BOAT just sits off watching a disaster they were best positioned to help with. once you see the hull split, journalistic detachment goes out the window and you go into life saving mode.
Out or respect for their Trans Tasman brothers in arms, they retired from the race. But they went on to win the America's Cup 5-nil. (This footage was shot during the challenger series, where many nations were competing to sail against the American holders of the Cup. NZ's first Cup win, and the first time the defending Americans had failed to win a single race.
None of what you said is in any way correct... this an IACC yacht not a 12m... it was built about 15 years AFTER Australia II for the San Diego conditions.
"Yachting's answer to the Titanic!" Pete Montgomery always was a little over the top with his commentaries. The difference here, Peter - and we are sure that you noticed - was everyone got off the Aussie boat.
Damn right... sad we Aussies didn't get the sponsorship together for another shot at the AC, but hey, will be cheering on our Kiwi cousins across the "ditch"! 😎
@@maxhugen Tell you what, without the likes of Glenn A and Nathan, I doubt the team would have got to be as dominant as it currently is. I think of it as an Anzac effort, and I'm a kiwi thru and thru.
I’m sooo keen to know why Australia has never challenged for the Cup since this horror show. If NZ can finance challenges Australia can also; and the depth of talent is surely here too? I recognise that Australians are heavily involved w other teams eg Oracle Team USA, Glen(n) Ashby w Emirates Team NZ & no doubt there’s more. But where’s Team Australia.... ?
The last Australian challenge was in 2000. An Australian challenge did step forward for the 2017 Cup, but they fell over. Currently there is an Australian team in Sail GP, so they'll be back in the future
But Kevin Tamati gave Greg Dowling a decent hiding on the side line, after both of them were sinned binned, sure beats the Under Arm incident by a country mile
OK I can put most of the speculation to bed from the comments below. I built this boat. Yes the main winch failed and they transferred the load to I think the running back stay winch. I'm not a sailor, just a boat builder. Either way it's like trying to break a stick with your hands close together and then moving them further apart. The boat wasn't designed to take the load applied at such a distance. PLUS... these boats weren't designed to be in conditions like this. They are flat water boats. The race should have been called off. If it was flat it probably wouldn't have broken even with the winch failure.
A design flaw? In a way yes and no. It only had two bulk heads. Mast bulkhead and a keel bulkhead and both were mealy ring frames and not full bulkheads. But that wasn't the true problem IMO. The boat was as hollow as a drum. It sure was cutting edge but it had NO longitudinal strength. No beams running for and aft to stop it breaking in half. I brought this up three times but the big fella (Iain Murray) told me I wasn't being paid to think. All I wanted to do was put two short longitudinal beams running maybe a few meters for and aft of the keel box. But no. Weight was the key factor and the order of the day. I think if they were in it may not have broken. It certainly wasn't too thin a carbon layup.
Why did it go down so fast? The hull and deck finished weighed only 1.1 tonnes. Incredibly light for an 80 ft maxi. The mast was 135 ft long and the single longest carbon structure ever produced. The mast had 40 tonnes of load pulling down on the mast bulkhead. But the cause of it sinking so fast was the foil and bulb attached below had over 17 tonnes of metal combined. The foil was solid stainless steel weighing 5 tonnes alone attached to a 12 tonne lead bulb below it with small stainless steel wings off of it. So a 1 tonne broken cork being pulled down by 17 tonnes of steel and lead. Down she went! It certainly wasn't badly built. It was a masterpiece of construction built to incredibly high standards. NASA standards. In fact NASA took interest in what we were doing as it was built to the same layup as the space shuttle and we were treading new ground and finding breaking points with new technology.
Why did the three fellas stay on the front for so long? Because there was confusion as to if someone was still down below. You can see one guy leaning down shouting through the forward hatch. Inside was full of sails and nothing else. Up to two people are down there at any one time feeding sails up through the hatches or dragging them back down below. Throw in a few hundred tonnes of water and a recipe for disaster for anyone below. Once they were somewhat sure no one was below, they jumped off. They had no choice anyway.
But the key point to make is that the Kiwi boat had the boat speed on us from the start. Even if nothing went wrong they were going to beat us hands down.
If anyone has any questions please ask.
Cheers
+King Cliff Thanks for this. It's unusual to get this level of insight on TH-cam. Did this incident lead to any change of practice?
Thank you for a great write up, and setting a stamp in history. This should b e added to the wikipedia page so people stop screwing up the history.
Thanks for informing us of these facts. What do you think made the Kiwi boat faster? Was it faster in all points of sailing?
I think it was just a better design. I don't know where it was stronger, just that it was faster overall. As we now know the Kiwis were quietly making world beating boats, much to the worlds surprise.
+paul R Cheers
The boat... is TURNING INTO A BANANA.
@bongo155 do do do banana boat
One of the greatest calls in sports imo
The commentary from New Zealands Peter Montgomery became legendary here.
You could be right on that, but he's been a legend in his own right.
I prefer the USA guy though in commentary.
@@nzriot You're out of your mind. No way Gary Jobson is better than Peter Montgomery - and I've meant Gary. Great dude.
@@mcribenthusiast7010 Mongomery is not a sailor mate - just an hysterical commentator
The ANZACs in dire circumstances we are always together hand to hand 🤝
Give us a lift mate!
Then need to reform the trans-Tasman agreement and also stop sending us their criminals and making us pay disability tax in Australia that we Kiwi's don't have access to tho...
Anzacs forever! In the worst situation your little brothers across the Tasman will always be there
This is terribly embarassing for Australia. Not one of us actually drinks Fosters.
haha!
SocietyPages XXXX
Coopers mate.
As a skateboarder who's been sober for 33+ years, I can tell you the only good thing about Fosters is that the cans make durable slalom cones.
Kraft... oops... this particular craft is going bottoms up.
Commentator: The most dramatic incident in America’s Cup history.
Dean Barker: Hold my beer
Yeah that was crazy out there today. I was watching it live and with my parents and my dad said that the only way U.S.A could lose is if they capsized and then seconds later they did. It was insane but luckily no one was injured
@@lukajmg7147 yeah pretty sad for the team and Dean, no luck. Pushing too hard when they really didn’t need to..
They have only towed about 2 kilometres going at about 3 knots it’s going to be a long night for them
@@leocrawford3253 sure will
Haha classic mate, I was amazed Barker came screaming into the zone at 44 knots! Then that happened
Incredible footage. Thank God they weren't out there alone. Couldn't even get to their life boat! I can't believe how FAST that boat went down. Great reporting by the commentator and camera crew. Wow.
I have answered your question in my recent post.
Blood is thicker than water, we will always be there for our Aussie brothers!
First ones on the scene and always will be
Then need to reform the trans-Tasman agreement and also stop sending us their criminals and making us pay disability tax in Australia that we don't have access to tho...
@@RobinJohnsonlook at the bigger picture mate, I don’t think kiwis are the enemy in 2024!
Maybe some other big country north of Australia
My Dad David Barnes was on the boat that day. He had a bad feeling about heading out that day...
Fr
My condolences from America. Your dad was an absolute legend in the sport and I wish I could have met him. Fair winds and following seas.
Nice... still brings a smile to my face after all these years...
Felt sorry for these lads ..heart breaking stuff...what caused it to break apart? Strong rivalry between Ozzie's n Kiwis...good to see the kiwi chase boat picking them up!!
As an Aussie, the America’s Cup victory in 1983 is still the proudest sporting moment for me. I remember my tears of pride as a 9 y.o.
And the OneAustralia sinking was the most embarrassing moment! (Or maybe it was Sand Paper Gate? Lol! )
I can handle getting beat by a better team, but to have the boat go down like that!!
Bad things happen when management don’t listen to engineers and trades people.
Hey, don't be embarrassed. If you're not breaking a boat or two, you're not pushing things hard enough. From a Yank.
I think both things were true weren't they? better team also - we in NZ found that out for ourselves when our best sailors from this cup went to Alinghi and spanked our ass in 2003 and 2007.
As an Aussie I don't see it as embarrassing. The commentary was hilarious. Sandpapergate was embarrassing and shameful, but the underarm incident was ten times worse. Especially since it was against our brothers across the ditch. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and the Kiwis will rightly never forget it.
1983 was legendary…..one of the greatest sporting comebacks in modern history!
From a kiwi.
I saw this video when I was 8 and 7 years later here I am ah memories
As I recall, AC boats are designed for the AVERAGE wind speed of the venue. San Diego generally, has very light winds and the boats were designed with that in mind. In 87, when the cup was held in Fremantle, with heavy winds, the boats (12 meter rule, as opposed to 95's IACC), were designed for heavy winds and seas. King Cliff was right, when the race shouldn't have been held that day because it was an unusually windy day for San Diego and the boats weren't designed for it. Conversely, in 87, when there were unusual light winds, the race basically timed out.
Sorry mate! I just saw the original TVNZ show from which this came and it has this music all over it. I thought you had edited the video; my mistake :) In fact, thank you sooooo much for the memories brought back, watching this live down in Wellington. Cheers!
Came here to watch this after something similar happened yesterday evening to Kevin Escoffier somewehere between Gough Island Capetown. Hardly had time to make a call before the water shut down all the electronics. Hopefully he's been rescued by his follower in the race Jean Le Cam.
The nz boat picking them up says a lot about Australian boat builders and its nice to see anzac forces still sick together
at 2.19 I nearly wet myself...'now you see it..now you don't' - wonderful commentary
Did they ever retrieve it ?
There's an urban legend that the keel and bulb were going 30 kts when they hit bottom.
lol, what goes down faster than a steinlager?
Kenneth Hammond fosters apparently
People are complaining about the current AC boats being prone to failure they should see this. I heard they had a jib wench fail and the moved the line back to a spinnaker wench, so basically they had both ends of the boat under tremendous load pulling at each other. One jarring wave and the boat was split in two. These boats were designed for SD light winds.
How embarrassing mates.
I really feel for our Australian rivals... We even rescued their crew so...
They'll never hear the end of it I guess, but we'll always be mates.
What a shame, what a mess... that has gotta hurt more than a brutal tackle.
Too much backstay pressure?
its One Australia........Half Australia............None Australia
As I recall Dennis Connor had a boat sink - but it was recovered to sail again. I this boat was salvaged but never sailed again.
The sails move around.. what is this
Yeah sorry about the music, this was taken from a TV show that aired in New Zealand after we won the Americas cup back in '95 so I didn't add the music. I'd get rid of it if I could!!
Did they ever find the cause? Was it just a hull design flaw?
Well if you are making a regatta boat you want to make it as light as possible. Im 100% sure that the cause was too thin carbon laminate on hull. And thats nothing special.
+liam71rock Jib sheet, or possibly runner, led to a different winch then intended, if I remember correctly.
+liam71rock I have answered your question in my recent post.
That was so bloody cool. Down it goes & never seen again
It was salvaged by the US Navy actually. They went to salvage the sail, mast and radio transmitters
Live in San Diego,that was big news back then.The Navy was going to recover it,(why),I don't know,never did.They interviewed the "skipper',on local tv Question.Did you think that you would sink? Answer.Oh yea,we were definatly going to sink!!!!!!
is this the Australia ii
No, far from sinking, Australia II won the America's Cup. (in 1983)
First challenger ever to win, in 132 years of other nations trying.
Far out! abandon ship.. The Banana Boat... Day Oh! (song) ... Ameicas Cup are racing in 2021.. I support my defending country.. win or lose.. cheers 🇳🇿
Almost unbelievable
Maybe is that right for little sailingboats but bigger one takes you with under..yoi can see on you tube big boar is sinking und seamen also
What’s the difference between One Australia and a teabag?
A teabag floats.
what was the deal with all the nearest boats not stopping to help?! the aussie chase boat just kinda drifted off screen, and the CAMERA BOAT just sits off watching a disaster they were best positioned to help with. once you see the hull split, journalistic detachment goes out the window and you go into life saving mode.
It still makes me happy whenever I see this.
Did the other boat win?
Out or respect for their Trans Tasman brothers in arms, they retired from the race. But they went on to win the America's Cup 5-nil. (This footage was shot during the challenger series, where many nations were competing to sail against the American holders of the Cup.
NZ's first Cup win, and the first time the defending Americans had failed to win a single race.
Fast forward 400 years later...
None of what you said is in any way correct... this an IACC yacht not a 12m... it was built about 15 years AFTER Australia II for the San Diego conditions.
0:11 you can see the side starting to bow
The crazy thing about that was that boat was very competitive against the kiwi boat. We will never know.
Read the pinned comment at the top
"Yachting's answer to the Titanic!" Pete Montgomery always was a little over the top with his commentaries.
The difference here, Peter - and we are sure that you noticed - was everyone got off the Aussie boat.
I'd rather watch a movie about this one.
@ 0:19 the music mean only one thing
Another Aussie trick, using a submarine with a sail.
Under arm Cricket Bowling, ozzie americas cup and RayGun smashing it in the breakdancing at the Olympics.
Just an all round awful country
When it matters Kiwis are there for our Aussie brothers.
At the end of the day, we are brothers in arms forever 🤗
0:29 there's definitely a problem aboard one australia
How would you like to be Kraft.....the sponsor of the boat. Your logo right next the big crack in the hull that sends the boat to the bottom. hahahah
Holy Moly!
This hull break and sinking was presented by Kraft. Literally translated: Force.
Wow remember this so well, very sad way to end the campaign
now you see it now you dont!
The 3 guys on the front got off just in time! I didn't think it would sink this fast.
the dick was awash @ 2:31?
Also, damn. Thats pretty nuts. These boats really are on the cutting edge, but one miscalculation leads to this. Shocking.
Blood is thicker than water, when the shit hits the fan Kiwis and Aussies are there for each other ....forever
Damn right... sad we Aussies didn't get the sponsorship together for another shot at the AC, but hey, will be cheering on our Kiwi cousins across the "ditch"! 😎
@@maxhugen Tell you what, without the likes of Glenn A and Nathan, I doubt the team would have got to be as dominant as it currently is. I think of it as an Anzac effort, and I'm a kiwi thru and thru.
@@Gottenhimfella 👍Good to hear! My brother-in-law is a Kiwi, top bloke. 😎
PJ Montgomery!!!??????
I was at the Windward Mark that day watching the race; OneAustralia never came out of the squall!
NZ32 stopped racing!
Albo lekki albo mocny. Taka gra. Kiedyć podczas eliminacji do pucharu Ameryki w ten sposób zginął włoski jacht :(
I can't believe what i'm seeing
The Australian boat went down under.
Wild
The boat is turning into a banana!! 🤣😂
I’m sooo keen to know why Australia has never challenged for the Cup since this horror show. If NZ can finance challenges Australia can also; and the depth of talent is surely here too?
I recognise that Australians are heavily involved w other teams eg Oracle Team USA, Glen(n) Ashby w Emirates Team NZ & no doubt there’s more. But where’s Team Australia.... ?
The last Australian challenge was in 2000. An Australian challenge did step forward for the 2017 Cup, but they fell over. Currently there is an Australian team in Sail GP, so they'll be back in the future
@brycenew - nah mate youre wrong , the depth of talent is not there - just the money.
@@sharp2684 Rubbish. Two of the top talents on Team NZ are Aussies. Ask any kiwi with inside knowledge.
More backstay tension!
jees i wouldn't like to be on one Australia
that sounds more likely.
oi, mistah prime ministah
I feel bad
A grinder or a tactician with red ears, anyone? - Let´s crank in that backstay a little - LoL
No great loss here , Fosters and Kraft are going where they belong. lol
😆😆😆 good one
The motorboat rammed it and took off...!!!
SIMPLE question where the fuck is the Aussie chase boat ? the NZ one back tracked and still beat the Aussie one lol
Sad day
or Australia
its not the sucking you under thats the problem it getting caught in the rigging and getting pulled under. lots of ropes and wires to get caught on.
It became 2 Australia
More like None Australia !
Titanic all over again fantastic
and they say San Diego doesn't produce exciting racing.
0:37 The Boat Is Turning Into A Banana
yeah that's not something that happens. ever.
should be called t bag.....one dung and ur out of the cup
AKA as a BAD DAY!!!!
Ah, worse things happen at sea...
brittleness of carbon-fiber it just snaps without fore-warning
2:00 "This is yachting's answer to the Titanic"
...No, no I don't think so.
What's with the crapy music!?
it should not have been built from recycled beer cans.
1 AUSTRALIA!
.......................
0.5 AUSTRALIA ~~~~~~ 0.5 AUSTRALIA
You seem like you really know a lot about ships, please enlighten us on why this wouldn't happen.
ooopsssss
Free beer's
Hahaha... 0:34
How embarrassing
lol
pos boat
the boat is taking on water! quick, everyone jump out or you might get wet!
Disappointing to be beaten by NZ. But we'll always have the underarm
But Kevin Tamati gave Greg Dowling a decent hiding on the side line, after both of them were sinned binned, sure beats the Under Arm incident by a country mile
ha, aussies
Badly build
Rot. Badly designed. Builders wanted to put in a longitudinal strength member.
It still makes me happy whenever I see this.