Apparently Sonic being tortured, and Tails losing it, were additions made by the localization team. In the Japanese version Sonic is just captured, and they've just lost contact with Tails.
"And Tails has just lost it." Wouldn't it have been hilarious if when we saw Tails again, he was a half-crazy survivalist with camo and wearing robot armor and laser cannons as trophies and weapons, only to snap out of it when the chance to save Sonic comes up? This way we could have had the return of kick-ass Tails.
you just gave me an idea Tails is just as you described. He returns to HQ with you super angry, sad, and ragged, but he serves as your weapons man, introducing your power ups for your wispons. But he's very clearly lonely, and if you click on the 'talk' option enough he reveals it. He's not interested in going outside again, and he makes sure the rest of the crew understands he's just there to build guns and nothing else. He takes note of your progress, but unlike the others (most notably knuckles and amy) he's very quick to tell you that what you're doing is dangerous, and that you cannot afford to screw up. The "Save Sonic Stage" is left until like, halfway to the end of the game, where he says he's gonna tag along with you because he NEEDS to go. There are like a couple of sections where he pops in with a quicktime event to show that he's helping you in the background. The intercom shows him getting more hopeful and more desperate the closer you get to the end... ...and then when he meets sonic again he's so happy he triggers the boss by accident, but he's not gonna let the boss stop him, so he joins you in the fight with quicktime events again, brandishing a brand new wispon that you cannot unlock prior to this. When the fight is over , the reunion of sonic and tails is filled with happiness and your character stands there, smiling, genuinely happy for your new friends. When Tails says 'Thank you', it's said with a totally different tone, so you know he really does mean it. And then, next cutscene, after a bit where everyone is so glad Sonic is back and they start planning, he gives you this new wispon, which introduces the concept of powering up your wispons and making them better. This way, your weapons don't feel overpowered at the start of the game, you have some challenge, and by the time you power them up to the max, the whole "one shot kill" thing feels earned. And it feels like Tails is totally helping you do it, every step of the way
That would be awesome, but that would require SEGA to hire good writers. It's ideas like this that remind me why I was such a big fan of Sonic, and make me a little bitter at what has been done. I can deal with lackluster gameplay if there is a good story, and I can ignore a bad story if the gameplay is satisfying. I can't endure both being bad.
Sonic giving a big speech about how they all need to pitch in together as friends to clean up the world, and then 2 cutscenes later deciding that that sounds like boring hard work and fucking off to go on self-indulgent adventures and leaving clean-up duty to everyone else is by far the most in character, well-written thing in this game.
The funniest part about that? Those tall lanky illusionary Infinites? They have the same textures and shaders as Chaos's cutscene model, despite Chaos not having an in-game model. If you can cheese the camera inside of one of them, you can actually see the exact same effects as seen on Chaos; they just tossed some cheap black overlay to make it Infinite. So more likely than not, that army of tall Infinites was originally supposed to be an army of Perfect Chaos'.
You could say the same for the Shadow and Zavok clones. Why the base forms and not something more threatening like super shadow or the giant zavok? Hell, the zavok fight has most of it with him on the giant robot so he's barely using any of his actual strength. You couldve taken zavok out of the fight and almost nothing would've changed
@@icecold1805 *MASS ASSAULT* "Perfect" weapons are overrated, a large number of "good enough" weapons is the path to victory! - Knuckles choosing a Land Doctrine, probably (with supposedly microscopic Manpower numbers on a *"rag-tag resistance"* )
You mean it's this kind of pretentious and annoying as fuck hack writing (which also makes no sense internally, since Classic Sonic is now from another dimension apparently) that is driving them into bankrupt. Dumbass.....
It's like when they brought writers from Happy Tree Friends to write Colors, Generations, and Lost World: They didn't know anything, and they butchered it
I just realized that Sonic referred to the place where he suffered six months of torture as a “yawnfest.” Hot damn, nothing shakes this hedgehog, does it?
I will never not hate that Sonic Team got Liam O'Brien to play a powerful imposing villian in a Sonic game that was marketed as dark and brutal.... and he does nothing. O'Brien is too good for this role
41. Which would make Tails 34. And yet he still looks, sounds and acts like a girlie-boy and is somehow still beneath the ostensibly 15-year-old not-Classic Sonic.
Chaos 0 too. The tutorial of sonic adventure is what the sun-summoning phantom ruby created. Not perfect chaos, the one that could crush 'The City' in like 5 minutes and only gets beat by super sonic.
While Mario seems to be happy channeling simple storybook narratives, Sonic seems like it's trying desperately to be like a shonen anime. If they want to be ambitious with it, why not just get a couple of decent writers in?
Jack Saint / LackingSaint The story's should be like the adventure games, nothing amazing, but entertaining and having a balance between light and dark.
Not really. They seemed to be trying more simple stuff and I guess wanted to try something more story based again. Except it's shit again. It's like they haven't got it right since SA2 and even then that was pushing it a bit
31:45 I've watched AGDQ's speedrun, and discovered an interesting fact, that in actuality, you want to be ALMOST perfect to avoid getting S-ranks, because minor stops to get damage are more than compensated by time saved on getting rewards. Edit: Not a critique for this point, just a funny addition in general.
57:59 - I like that you unlike many commentators say that Sonic could go with darker stories, and even advocate for the possible next game trying something similar to go even darker. I don't know if you necessary need to contrast it with cheesiness though. Sonic can have a darker game, that is cheesy at times, while the whole package still can make sense. Take SA2 for example. I know that most people only remember it for the dark ending... but majority of the game is incredibly cheesy and lighthearted. It's only near the end when it gets tense. And the whole thing still has a very... consistent vision. We can easily imagine the light parts and the dark parts existing in the same universe, even in the same story. In Forces, it only doesn't work because we are getting contradictory messages. The dark stuff in ONLY being talked about, but never shown. It's told to us that Sonic was being tortured, but all evidence goes to the contrary as he is as happy as ever. He's uncharacteristically happy even if we take into account that ALL he endured was just sitting in a cell. All of the Infinite's talks are... just that. Talks. He barely ever has commanding presence. And after you learn he is just a little bitch from the DLC prequel, then you can't take him seriously anymore. And if they wanted to go for this war and grit... why do they still keep the overly bright simplistic graphics and why are the characters designed with baby shapes? Why do the male Avatar characters have a visible gut and the female Avatar characters are less busty than Amy who is 14 years old? You can't both go for a darker tone and at the same time go for toddlers as your target audience. Have some consistent vision Sonic Team dammit!
Chrome Spyro Aww, are you mad about me trashing a game that's so mediocre in every way possible that it won't be remembered for being either good or terrible?
Some fans specluated that a lot of it was shuffled around and changed at the last second. Plus they keep getting really shit writers, even shit pro ones.
It could be by accident, I mean have you tried to read any of the twilight novels or seen the what 30+ writers WWE have crap out every week. Trust me it's possible to just be that awful of a writer
I think that the writers can't show that much emotion in Sonic characters because of Ken Penders' lawsuit and by now they're probably running out of ideas of how to make a compelling story elements since Sonic has almost done everything in the book. But still,it's no excuse for the amount of horrible and seemingly rushed/unpolished writing in this game
Nah, characters being banned from emoting isn't anything to do with Penders. SEGA did put rules on the comics that barred Sonic from emoting properly, but IIRC the other characters weren't nearly as restricted as he was. The sad reality is that Pontac and Graff just suck.
Commander Spyder My problem is that they build up null space as this eternal prison that may be very difficult to escape yet for some reason all it takes is like 40 seconds. Plus they could've made it this weird eternal prison type area where things keep getting all topsy-turvy and distorted. They could've made this a level that messes with your head and keeps you on your toes.
it could be a design choice to suggest that everything is bad and something is very wrong. but seeing as it's just that part of the soundtrack, it sounds like cutlery going over a plate.
"But then I realized, I didn't really want to put Grommit trough war, so I moved on to Trauma the rabbit, who has seen the horrors of war" That has to be one of the best sentences I have ever heard
Apparently the line about Sonic being tortured was made up from whole cloth for the English translation, and that's why he's looking remarkably untortured when you see him. Why they decided to throw torture into the narrative is another question altogether.
The real question is what excuse the original writers had for why Eggman didn't outright kill Sonic when he had the opportunity. At least torture gives an impetus to temporarily keep him alive
The way you describe the classic sonic controls in "Gotta read fast" sounds like they reverted it back to Sonic the Hedgehog 4 physics, which *everyone hated.* Also if you want "Darker sonic" I recommend watching the Japanese version of Sonic X. Not the 4kids english dub where they butcher and cut entire, sometimes surprisingly powerful scenes, the OG japanese one where they go FULL ON into the Sonic Adventure 2 tone, even covering the events of sonic adventure loosely at one point I think. Also, sonic says "SHIT" in engrish and it's great.
Oh no, it's not quite Sonic 4 physics, Sonic's 4 physics were boring and bad but a lot more predictable, and you had that dumb jump move to instantly build speed. Also I've heard about the Japanese Sonic X, I watched that crap in English as a kid and I'm not sure how much it could be helped, I didn't make it to the season they redid the Adventure games though
Let me put it this way, the Japanese version of Sonic X lets things actually _breathe_ for a moment so you can take in the bleakness of a situation, whereas the 4kids version assaults your senses 100% of the time. Don't get me wrong, it's still not high art, but it's like the japanese version is almost trying to be as bleak as fucking NGE or some shit at times. You'd have to see it for yourself to see what I'm talking about and just HOW different it is, it's like 2 different directors with wildly different ideas on what to do with the plot and footage making the same series (Hope you don't mind spoilers): th-cam.com/video/JdRjn3Q4v2I/w-d-xo.html but yeah I think you'd like it just because it's very apex peak "Signature sonic camp" where they try to put serious stories around these disproportionately large animal characters. I'd say it actually kinda succeeds at certain points due to letting you actually take in the atmosphere a bit unlike the 4kids version, kinda like how in Jojo you just stop questioning silly shit after a while.
Eh, unpopular opinion but Sonic X in Japanese is still pretty shoddy. Aside from some very minor differences in the latter half, the story is basically the same, and follows the same rough pacing. It's basically a polished turd, as opposed to the dub which is just a regular turd.
Hell, even the 4Kids version had some dark moments. My intro to Sonic X was catching the end of its adaptation of SA2, and…well, my intro to that one human kid nobody likes was Shadow beating the crap out of him when he took the place of Amy in the “people are good” scene.
What about a Sonic real time strategy? it could be fairly simplistic but at the same time have a lot of content to work with because of the sheer amount of stuff present in the Sonic games. Good guys would be GUN lined up with the heroes from the various games, bad guys would be the Eggman Empire. Heck, even the Black Arms of all things could be a cool faction to play as. You'd have basic foot soldiers, missile troops, engineers that capture and repair buildings, and vehicles like those from Sonic Adventure 2. and after building a "research" building like a Battle Lab you could start creating more powerful single units such as Sonic, Omega, etc. Of course SEGA would probably botch it royally because it's clear they haven't had a clue of what they're doing with the franchise for about a decade now.
Apparently the war setting was meant to appeal to Adventure fans who wanted a more serious game while the gameplay was to appeal to modern fans. It was meant to be a rushed attempt to get all the fans on the same page. Sonic team didn’t want to do it as much as they felt like trying to appeal to all fans
This is the best review I've seen for Sonic Forces.And the fact that you understand what makes a Sonic game good gives you that much more credibility. Great work and cheers. :)
38:38 "A fake? How?" Sonic, it's _Shadow._ He's an artificial life form, you _know_ he can be cloned/copied, you were _there_ on the space station where he was created! As someone that dislikes the Sonic franchise, I want whoever's reading this to know how much I hate that I know all of this.
I'm trying to find a video of the MG Ray battle but instead of Rules of Nature it's Fist Bump but i can't find so i'll just say that there's a video like that instead of linking it here
I wouldn't be surprised if the original idea was to have Sonic trapped in null-space until the end of the game, which is why him coming back is supposed to be such a big moment. But then somebody at Sega pointed out that, even with an avatar, having you play as not-Sonic for most of a Sonic game probably wouldn't go over well. I guess blowing up a prison and killing everyone to escape works too.
The work you put into this script is amazing. You hooked me and gave me a genuine laugh a bunch, feels rare in my older age but dang some of those jokes just snuck up on me xD thanks! Thanks for keeping it real too, I can't wait for them to drop this genre and make an adventure 2 successor.
I don't even care for Sonic, why am I realizing this 34 minutes in? (I have a soft spot for cheesy butt metal/rock shit too, put me and tehsnakerer in a firing line together)
As usual you kept my attention over the course of over an hour on a game/series I couldn't care less about. By the by, I'd really like to see you review more obscure games nobody's ever heard of, I have a few suggestions from different genres that I think would fit your video style.
The Dream Machine, which I think I have already suggested to you at some point, was finished this year. its a very weird point and click game made entirely in claymation. 7 Grand steps, sort of a mash up of a board game an arcade game and a strategy game. and Captain Claw which I actually grew up with, probably still the hardest game I've ever played, its a platformer with some combat elements and from what I remember was pretty alright despite its difficulty.
"Bears have a better attack" *every enemy save bosses takes 1 hit to destroy* lol EDIT: ....you forgot to mention the way that the ending song doesn't fit the mood of the game in the slightest *cries*
Know this is old but seriously the end credits song sounds like it belonged to the Sonic Forces that this TRIED to be but failed at due to not having a clue what made the stories of the adventure days so good and compelling
I love the Phantom Ruby as a concept. It's basically a Lantern Corp ring down to being powered by willpower and needing to be recharged every so often. The only thing limiting Infinite in it's use though is that he's so single minded..Also I think it's worth pointing out that Shadow apparently killed the rest of Infinite's mercenary unit but left him alive because he was so little a threat. At least if you go by the english translation.
For mobile users: INDEX 1. Forces Intro 00:00 2. Story: Sonic Meets Infinite 01:43 3. Character Creation: The Avatar Wanders In 03:45 4. Story: Regrouping the Three Characters 06:25 5. Gameplay Boost to Win? Modern Sonic 08:15 6. Gameplay: New Classic 13:07 7. Gameplay: The Armed Avatar 16:55 8. Gameplay: Tag Team 21:15 9. Story: Eggman’s Plan 22:23 10. Music 25:43 11. Gameplay: Stage Length, Obstacles, and Bosses 28:27 12. Gameplay: Score, Collectibles, and rewards 35:13 13. Story: The Phantom Ruby 38:12 14. Story: Null Space 43:20 15. Sonic in a War Setting 45:36 16. Story: The Grand Finales 48:30 17. Conclusion 57:24
This review came up in my recommended and I need to thank you for such an depth retrospective. You got down to all the nitty gritty stuff, including that bloody random platform in the Death Egg stage. I really dig channels that make these kinds of reviews
Definitely one of your best reviews and easily the best long-form review of Forces. The game is decidedly mediocre but has just enough moments of potential that I still found it sort of charming and enjoyable. Enough so to get all the Trophies on PS4 anyways, but I can't see myself coming back to this one anytime soon. I'm a bit taken aback at how in-depth you went at the story of all things but you made a lot of good points. It's a shame that Sonic Team will probably learn the wrong lessons from Force's negative reception as a whole and will probably drop the Boost gameplay for something new that plays worse (like they did with Lost World) and will go back to making "stories" that make Mario look deep and mature. I mean, none of the 3D Sonic games have "good" stories, but at least they're often enjoyably cheesy but that cheese was lacking recently until Forces. TLDR: I hope Christian Whitehead and his team are working on another Sonic game because I'm pretty damn hesitant to get excited at whatever Sonic Team comes up with next since Forces is not only "not good" unlike Colors or Generations, but it lacks the many of endearing elements that still made many of the "bad" 3D Sonic games fun.
Thanks for the kind words, and yeah, I was curious if I went a bit too much into story on this one but I stand by what I say about it. I think this is the first game to feel like it's story was missing chunks however, I've never felt confusion at what should be such an easy to follow story before, and generally even Sonic plots have understood how powerful to make their characters so they don't just look absolutely stupid at every turn.
If you actually were thinking too hard about a Sonic game, you'd understand that the Virtual Reality takes an absurd amount of energy to manifest, thus Eggman needing 3 days for the plan. So they can't do it willy-nilly. The Phantom Ruby is a power source that can be amplified or neutralised by additional power sources. I feel like the plot points are serviceable but with no connective tissue and all the stakes (save the sun) being handwaved right away, there's little reason to care. In Sonic Adventure 2, it was the mystery that motivated the player to continue the story. Here if you think there was one, it was probably an illusion.
I'm gonna be honest I never liked the idea that the entire world was made up of these anthropomorphic animals. I always like the way it was in the adventure games and unleashed, with the majority of the world population being humans, with the only sonic like characters being Sonic and his friends, and I guess some other creatures since for sonic and company to exist, they need family, so stuff like that.
I can think of a better example of a threatening line during Infinite’s last fight, how Wormwood told Pac-Man at the end of Pac-Man World 2, he will make an excellent addition to his graveyard, because he’ll die and make an excellent trophy and set piece here in his home, wow, that’s grim yet not overbearing and fits perfectly.
I'm so glad I watched this to the very end so I could check the Sonic Fanon page for gun. I have a bad cold/possible sinus infection right now so laughing is very painful. Needless to say, I am presently in agony.
Why are we still here? Just to chuckle? Every night, I feel my lego shoes. My arm... even my knuckles. The rings I've lost. The furry OCs I've lost. Won't stop hurting. It's like they're all still there. You feel it too, don't you?
The thing I hate most about modern Sonic games is that Shadow got Chaos Powers WITHOUT using the Chaos Emeralds. At this point he is just Sonic but with more abilitys so literally an objectivly more powerful version of Sonic. This is probably the most STUPID change they made for his character. Sonic just looks so weak in comparison.
I long for a good sonic game. I grew up with Sonic Adventure DX and SA2B and they remain some of my favorite games. I know they're not considered good games by most but they basically built my gateway into the world of gaming. So watching sonic flop over and over is kinda upsetting.
Well people got into gaming with 06 forces and Lost world and loved them despite their issues. I don't think forces was a flop, i have seen a lot of people liking it
The grapple model is the thing that annoyed me for the entirety of the game. You see the ends of it but the ends are transparent- it comes straight out of the OC's hand- and sometimes it appears to grapple onto nothing at all
Imagine if they just left Sonic in Null space since he was defeated, only getting out once the avatar entered. Much better return than literally the second mission.
Thank the gods for you. JUST in time for my one free day from work. Time to kick back, get comfy and witness another unnecessary sonic game through the eyes of someone else.
The story in this game was so botched, they could’ve had a whole sonic satam type storyline that was darker yet charming but instead they resorted to rushing through the majority part of a revolution NOT TO MENTION THE DEFEAT OF SONIC in a pitiful 2 sentences, focusing on nostalgia pandering with classic sonic( who doesnt even control well ESPECIALLY in comparison to mania), and allocating a bunch of resources into a misguided and misdirected sack of potential.
Yeah this game is rushed to in every aspect and the level design is so poopy that they even recycle level structures so some levels are just copies of each other. This game sucks.
Honestly, I'd take another Shadow the Hedgehog over Forces, just because Shadow the Hedgehog had absolutely no restraint and was kind of amazing to watch in the same way that a train wreck is. Actually I'd take another Sonic Riders, too, that game was lit
15:25 Yeah, that one’s not just a Classic issue. Can say for myself that I had jumping jank with all three characters. Shoutout to one particular jump in Imperial Tower where, unless I basically tiptoed up to it, the game would just set me to max momentum as soon as I left the ground, making me overshoot the platform that was only a foot away from me.
27:44 i watched a YTP and i thought the music in this stage of the game was just for a dumb joke, BUT WHAT THE ACTUAL S**T?. ITS ACTUALLY WHAT THE SOUNDTRACK FOR THIS STAGE IS?
Why did Silver travel back in time and not stop the cause of Robotnik taking over? Seems stupid to return at a later point in time when Robotnik seemingly already won
That's the beauty of having a fissoned fanbase like Sonic. People will always shit on you, but people will always be willing to buy games and claim you're great too (or buy just to shit on your stuff).
all in all, i appreciate the *EFFORT* to remedy the problems of the last few stories, and i like the idea that they tried to do something genuinely cool, interesting, and went all out in establishing the setting, but the execution and the story itself left so much to be desired, and was much worse than we could have imagined.
24:14 I mean Eggman defeated Sonic in the intro cutscene of Sonic Unleashed, and that was almost a decade before Sonic Forces was made. Also Sonic is canonically 15, which means that, unless he was able to defeat Eggman at birth (which is unlikely), he wouldn't even have been beating Eggman for a single decade.
So they took the Green Lantern ring, and turned it red? Powered by willpower and an imagination, they should have hired a comic writer for this game because damn, Hal Jordan would be disappointed in Infinite and his obsession with cubes
@@worldweaver2691 Everything green lantern Post Zero Hour just about. Until around 2006 I think, when Geoff John's took over and retooled the entire mythos of the character and brought back Hal. For context, Kyle was an art student so he was a lot more creative and inventive than Hal and the artists that worked on his books were usually super talented. The only human green lantern that comes close to his creativity is Jon Stewart, who's a Vietnam vet and an architect, who would summon full on naval destroyer levels of artillery. At one point in Blackest Night he summons a construct that's his entire platoon from Vietnam armed to the teeth to blow up a planer's worth of nightmare space zombies.
"The Horrors of war are there." Eh...sure, we hear guys losing fights on the radio, but Rookie/Gun is a God amongst animals. We don't even see any disposable mooks get taken out by an artillery strike near us.
So when I had played this game I did a boostless run. Not boosting makes the game take significantly longer and adds a bit of added difficulty. As it turns out you can beat 90% of the game without boosting. The only part of the game that requires boosting is the third act of the final boss. Imagen playing the entire game up to that point without boosting, beating every challenge that comes your way and feeling very accomplished with yourself (especially after spending way too long trying to defeat Metal) then getting to that final segment and having to basically spam the button that you had never even touched once throughout the rest of the game. I did not find the final boss fight to be fun. Out of the three characters, I found the custom character stages to be the most fun to play. Simply because the stages were made with a character who doesn't have a boost, so they are paced better. The worst character to play as was Classic Sonic. Not having a homing attack was super annoying. The whole time I felt like I was playing as a worse Sonic. The story of this game is so bad, that it basically sucks out all the enjoyment of this game. The only way I could have fun with this game was to skip all the cutscenes. Also, playing as Shadow is kinda fun. tldr: I did a boostless run, Final boss was not fun (for me), Classic Sonic worst to play, Custom Character best to play, Story suck, Shadow good.
"That joke you unleashed really colored my opinions on this scene"
I'd give that joke a 06/10.
Kill me
you forgot a "forced"
This is why i hate this generation lol
@@toonminamimoto
*lol*
And these comments are why the Internet contains the real heroes.
Apparently Sonic being tortured, and Tails losing it, were additions made by the localization team. In the Japanese version Sonic is just captured, and they've just lost contact with Tails.
Is it those 2 guys that have been writing song games as of recent?
that’s actually hilarious tbh
The Japanese version of the game is more tame? :O
well that's ken pontac and warren graff for ya
It's like it's vice versa
"And Tails has just lost it."
Wouldn't it have been hilarious if when we saw Tails again, he was a half-crazy survivalist with camo and wearing robot armor and laser cannons as trophies and weapons, only to snap out of it when the chance to save Sonic comes up? This way we could have had the return of kick-ass Tails.
I think they actually did that in the UK comic!
you just gave me an idea
Tails is just as you described. He returns to HQ with you super angry, sad, and ragged, but he serves as your weapons man, introducing your power ups for your wispons. But he's very clearly lonely, and if you click on the 'talk' option enough he reveals it. He's not interested in going outside again, and he makes sure the rest of the crew understands he's just there to build guns and nothing else. He takes note of your progress, but unlike the others (most notably knuckles and amy) he's very quick to tell you that what you're doing is dangerous, and that you cannot afford to screw up. The "Save Sonic Stage" is left until like, halfway to the end of the game, where he says he's gonna tag along with you because he NEEDS to go. There are like a couple of sections where he pops in with a quicktime event to show that he's helping you in the background. The intercom shows him getting more hopeful and more desperate the closer you get to the end...
...and then when he meets sonic again he's so happy he triggers the boss by accident, but he's not gonna let the boss stop him, so he joins you in the fight with quicktime events again, brandishing a brand new wispon that you cannot unlock prior to this. When the fight is over , the reunion of sonic and tails is filled with happiness and your character stands there, smiling, genuinely happy for your new friends. When Tails says 'Thank you', it's said with a totally different tone, so you know he really does mean it.
And then, next cutscene, after a bit where everyone is so glad Sonic is back and they start planning, he gives you this new wispon, which introduces the concept of powering up your wispons and making them better. This way, your weapons don't feel overpowered at the start of the game, you have some challenge, and by the time you power them up to the max, the whole "one shot kill" thing feels earned. And it feels like Tails is totally helping you do it, every step of the way
That would be awesome, but that would require SEGA to hire good writers.
It's ideas like this that remind me why I was such a big fan of Sonic, and make me a little bitter at what has been done. I can deal with lackluster gameplay if there is a good story, and I can ignore a bad story if the gameplay is satisfying. I can't endure both being bad.
It'd also be great if he randomly got a gruff voice and started talking about how he's "seen things, man".
That would have elevated the whole game
Sonic giving a big speech about how they all need to pitch in together as friends to clean up the world, and then 2 cutscenes later deciding that that sounds like boring hard work and fucking off to go on self-indulgent adventures and leaving clean-up duty to everyone else is by far the most in character, well-written thing in this game.
Sad part is that’s just a rehash of Adventure’s ending.
Alex Eggleston would be proud.
What's worse is that he manifested Chaos 0, literally the weakest version of him, his final form could destroy a city... erm good work Infinite..
What's even more worse is tails loosing his shit over the weakest carnation of a version he actually beat which had several emeralds under his belt.
He manifested both the weakest Chaos and the weakest Metal Sonic. He could have summoned the planet destroying kaiju Metal Sonic but no, the basic one
Shit, even Chaos 2 would have been better. Which likely wouldn't require too much more effort.
The funniest part about that? Those tall lanky illusionary Infinites? They have the same textures and shaders as Chaos's cutscene model, despite Chaos not having an in-game model. If you can cheese the camera inside of one of them, you can actually see the exact same effects as seen on Chaos; they just tossed some cheap black overlay to make it Infinite. So more likely than not, that army of tall Infinites was originally supposed to be an army of Perfect Chaos'.
You could say the same for the Shadow and Zavok clones. Why the base forms and not something more threatening like super shadow or the giant zavok? Hell, the zavok fight has most of it with him on the giant robot so he's barely using any of his actual strength. You couldve taken zavok out of the fight and almost nothing would've changed
Soldier: "Commander! 80% of our troops have been destroyed!"
Commander: *makes super hilarious joke*
Is this Soviet Russia?
@@icecold1805 No, this is patrick.
@@icecold1805 *MASS ASSAULT*
"Perfect" weapons are overrated, a large number of "good enough" weapons is the path to victory!
- Knuckles choosing a Land Doctrine, probably (with supposedly microscopic Manpower numbers on a *"rag-tag resistance"* )
@@charmyzard hoi4 sonic forces mod when
@@icecold1805 Even Knuckles is more successful than any Russian today
"It's been ****generations**** since I've last seen you"
You see it's this kind of sharp wit and writing that keeps Sonic Team from going bankrupt
It's their only saving grace.
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I thought that joke was pretty funny
But except they said he was from a different dimension instead of being the same sonic. No excuses from me.
You mean it's this kind of pretentious and annoying as fuck hack writing (which also makes no sense internally, since Classic Sonic is now from another dimension apparently) that is driving them into bankrupt. Dumbass.....
I love the fact that because of Knuckles so many innocent lives were wiped out during Operation Big Wave. What a useless bloody resistance leader.
Just your average HOI IV noob doing Germany
I love that you actually posted Gun the Wolf as an OC in the Sonic Fandom wiki.
Skills: gun
Abilities: gun
Powers: gun
Weaponry: gun
Background: gun
Sometimes you need less gun. A message Gun the wolf either ignored or never heard
@@genericprotaganist5042
Heresy
@@CruelestChris nah
There were 3 level designers in this game and 2 had never worked on a sonic game before.
Casual Mercy Main
The absolute state of Sonic Team, ladies and gentlemen.
that's SAAAAD...
Casual Mercy Main I’ve known this for a year but I’m still amazed fucking hell
Why the heck would they hire level designers with no inspiration or experience with the franchise? Is SEGA on crack?
It's like when they brought writers from Happy Tree Friends to write Colors, Generations, and Lost World: They didn't know anything, and they butchered it
I just realized that Sonic referred to the place where he suffered six months of torture as a “yawnfest.” Hot damn, nothing shakes this hedgehog, does it?
That or sleep deprivation was on the menu
I will never not hate that Sonic Team got Liam O'Brien to play a powerful imposing villian in a Sonic game that was marketed as dark and brutal.... and he does nothing. O'Brien is too good for this role
Right?! Fuck Infinite the Jackass, his wasted potential, his Edgy the Hedginess and fans!
@@kieranstark7213 Infinite is a jackal, not a hedgehog.
There, fixed it for comedic intent! 😁
@@kieranstark7213 Lol
24:13 "For you, perhaps. He has beaten you for decades."
So wait, in-universe does this mean Sonic IS like 20-30 years old?
He probably doesn't age
Rooban ! Your right. He's still 15.
41. Which would make Tails 34. And yet he still looks, sounds and acts like a girlie-boy and is somehow still beneath the ostensibly 15-year-old not-Classic Sonic.
@@CarbonRollerCaco You're
Please tell me you're not measuring using irl years
@@Sukaiba69 Making jokes like this is pretty much the only way to make Forces the least bit entertaining.
Eggman: "okay Infinite, you can make *anything* "
Infinite: _"nothing"_
Words cannot describe how disappointed I was when Chaos died in a friggin' cutscene.
Chaos 0 too. The tutorial of sonic adventure is what the sun-summoning phantom ruby created. Not perfect chaos, the one that could crush 'The City' in like 5 minutes and only gets beat by super sonic.
Sonic Forces Lost Potential: The Movie
Sega writing the very thing it wants, a Phantom Ruby
The final, final boss of the game is actually just the final boss from Colors
Real creative, guys.
While Mario seems to be happy channeling simple storybook narratives, Sonic seems like it's trying desperately to be like a shonen anime. If they want to be ambitious with it, why not just get a couple of decent writers in?
Jack Saint / LackingSaint The story's should be like the adventure games, nothing amazing, but entertaining and having a balance between light and dark.
Not really. They seemed to be trying more simple stuff and I guess wanted to try something more story based again. Except it's shit again. It's like they haven't got it right since SA2 and even then that was pushing it a bit
@@drifter402 Though I slightly agree: Unleashed and Black Knight's stories would like to have a word with you
This is like full metal alchemist but without consistent plot
@@drifter402 nah. Last good story was Black Knight
31:45 I've watched AGDQ's speedrun, and discovered an interesting fact, that in actuality, you want to be ALMOST perfect to avoid getting S-ranks, because minor stops to get damage are more than compensated by time saved on getting rewards.
Edit: Not a critique for this point, just a funny addition in general.
57:59 - I like that you unlike many commentators say that Sonic could go with darker stories, and even advocate for the possible next game trying something similar to go even darker. I don't know if you necessary need to contrast it with cheesiness though. Sonic can have a darker game, that is cheesy at times, while the whole package still can make sense. Take SA2 for example. I know that most people only remember it for the dark ending... but majority of the game is incredibly cheesy and lighthearted. It's only near the end when it gets tense. And the whole thing still has a very... consistent vision. We can easily imagine the light parts and the dark parts existing in the same universe, even in the same story. In Forces, it only doesn't work because we are getting contradictory messages. The dark stuff in ONLY being talked about, but never shown. It's told to us that Sonic was being tortured, but all evidence goes to the contrary as he is as happy as ever. He's uncharacteristically happy even if we take into account that ALL he endured was just sitting in a cell. All of the Infinite's talks are... just that. Talks. He barely ever has commanding presence. And after you learn he is just a little bitch from the DLC prequel, then you can't take him seriously anymore. And if they wanted to go for this war and grit... why do they still keep the overly bright simplistic graphics and why are the characters designed with baby shapes? Why do the male Avatar characters have a visible gut and the female Avatar characters are less busty than Amy who is 14 years old? You can't both go for a darker tone and at the same time go for toddlers as your target audience. Have some consistent vision Sonic Team dammit!
They shoulda just aped the Riders designs tbh
Sonic Underground was fairly dark.
The fucking Storybook games are probably the darkest Sonic has ever gotten honestly
I like how there are people on the wiki taking your page seriously.
Irony borders on impossible in that place.
Wow, this video is half the length of the actual game. You outdid yourself once again.
Heavily Augmented srsly the game is only 2 hours long?!
TheCoolRaptor PL Not to spoil the review but yeah, most report 2-3 hours of play to beat all the stages (100% completion aside)
Give or take half an hour
fuck off.
Chrome Spyro Aww, are you mad about me trashing a game that's so mediocre in every way possible that it won't be remembered for being either good or terrible?
Low-key, Silver the "It's no use!" Hedgehog calling himself an 'optimist' is the funniest line in this game.
Silver is always going to the past to change his future which is peak optimism
I mean the "its no use line" was something he was telling sonic while trying to kick his ass. So its not really contradictory.
"80% of our forces have been wiped out!"
*Sonic & Friends: The Great Patriotic War*
All I can think of now is a Hideo Kojima sonic game.
@@swankycab6170 Good idea, not gonna lie.
“And knuckles is the leader of the resistance”...oh no
“Just in time to save Gun from some trash.”
For a second there I thought I missed something and G.U.N. was in this game.
At this point I can only assume the devs WANT the writing to be terribad.
You can´t produce this degree of cringe over such a long time by accident.
Some fans specluated that a lot of it was shuffled around and changed at the last second. Plus they keep getting really shit writers, even shit pro ones.
It could be by accident, I mean have you tried to read any of the twilight novels or seen the what 30+ writers WWE have crap out every week. Trust me it's possible to just be that awful of a writer
I think that the writers can't show that much emotion in Sonic characters because of Ken Penders' lawsuit and by now they're probably running out of ideas of how to make a compelling story elements since Sonic has almost done everything in the book. But still,it's no excuse for the amount of horrible and seemingly rushed/unpolished writing in this game
Nah, characters being banned from emoting isn't anything to do with Penders.
SEGA did put rules on the comics that barred Sonic from emoting properly, but IIRC the other characters weren't nearly as restricted as he was.
The sad reality is that Pontac and Graff just suck.
@@ToaArcan Huh. Well, f*ck Sega
They seriously couldn't have ONE LEVEL in Null Space?
McParker
Sonic Team: b-b-but that would mean we would have to put effort on creating new assets!
I don't get why people wanted a level of that so badly personally. It would be an extremely bland looking level.
Commander Spyder well it could of looked like anything, couldn't be more dull than what we got
I kinda disagree. I really don't think there was any real potential for that level other than floating platforms, but... I love this game anyway lol
Commander Spyder My problem is that they build up null space as this eternal prison that may be very difficult to escape yet for some reason all it takes is like 40 seconds. Plus they could've made it this weird eternal prison type area where things keep getting all topsy-turvy and distorted. They could've made this a level that messes with your head and keeps you on your toes.
GAH! MY EARS!! Why did they make Classic Sonic’s music so bad?!
it could be a design choice to suggest that everything is bad and something is very wrong.
but seeing as it's just that part of the soundtrack, it sounds like cutlery going over a plate.
I kinda liked the Chemical Plant part ngl
I actually think that the Chemical Plant tune was pretty enjoyable.
I'm surprised it sounds worse than the weird synth music from Sonic 4.
It’s like cheese grating on a guitar...
"But then I realized, I didn't really want to put Grommit trough war, so I moved on to Trauma the rabbit, who has seen the horrors of war"
That has to be one of the best sentences I have ever heard
Apparently the line about Sonic being tortured was made up from whole cloth for the English translation, and that's why he's looking remarkably untortured when you see him. Why they decided to throw torture into the narrative is another question altogether.
The real question is what excuse the original writers had for why Eggman didn't outright kill Sonic when he had the opportunity. At least torture gives an impetus to temporarily keep him alive
Fear? Pain?
Friendship?
believingin yourself? What is this, Naruto VS Pain?
“Your mask can’t hide how sad and lonely you are”
LMAO it’s as if someone tried to recreate the Shippuden story in the Sonic universe. Keyword tried.
Jesus, even Kingdom Hearts isn't this corny when it comes to story (Ok actually it is kind of like that, but at least it is consistent about it).
No, it's Rick VS Morty
SyncF at least it's not baruto.
SyncF more like fairy tail
The way you describe the classic sonic controls in "Gotta read fast" sounds like they reverted it back to Sonic the Hedgehog 4 physics, which *everyone hated.*
Also if you want "Darker sonic" I recommend watching the Japanese version of Sonic X. Not the 4kids english dub where they butcher and cut entire, sometimes surprisingly powerful scenes, the OG japanese one where they go FULL ON into the Sonic Adventure 2 tone, even covering the events of sonic adventure loosely at one point I think. Also, sonic says "SHIT" in engrish and it's great.
Oh no, it's not quite Sonic 4 physics, Sonic's 4 physics were boring and bad but a lot more predictable, and you had that dumb jump move to instantly build speed. Also I've heard about the Japanese Sonic X, I watched that crap in English as a kid and I'm not sure how much it could be helped, I didn't make it to the season they redid the Adventure games though
Let me put it this way, the Japanese version of Sonic X lets things actually _breathe_ for a moment so you can take in the bleakness of a situation, whereas the 4kids version assaults your senses 100% of the time.
Don't get me wrong, it's still not high art, but it's like the japanese version is almost trying to be as bleak as fucking NGE or some shit at times. You'd have to see it for yourself to see what I'm talking about and just HOW different it is, it's like 2 different directors with wildly different ideas on what to do with the plot and footage making the same series (Hope you don't mind spoilers): th-cam.com/video/JdRjn3Q4v2I/w-d-xo.html but yeah I think you'd like it just because it's very apex peak "Signature sonic camp" where they try to put serious stories around these disproportionately large animal characters. I'd say it actually kinda succeeds at certain points due to letting you actually take in the atmosphere a bit unlike the 4kids version, kinda like how in Jojo you just stop questioning silly shit after a while.
Oh god that editing was ridiculous, but okay yeah that picques my interest a bit more.
Eh, unpopular opinion but Sonic X in Japanese is still pretty shoddy. Aside from some very minor differences in the latter half, the story is basically the same, and follows the same rough pacing.
It's basically a polished turd, as opposed to the dub which is just a regular turd.
Hell, even the 4Kids version had some dark moments. My intro to Sonic X was catching the end of its adaptation of SA2, and…well, my intro to that one human kid nobody likes was Shadow beating the crap out of him when he took the place of Amy in the “people are good” scene.
If they wanted to do a war setting... why not just make a Sonic: Total War?
What about a Sonic real time strategy? it could be fairly simplistic but at the same time have a lot of content to work with because of the sheer amount of stuff present in the Sonic games. Good guys would be GUN lined up with the heroes from the various games, bad guys would be the Eggman Empire. Heck, even the Black Arms of all things could be a cool faction to play as.
You'd have basic foot soldiers, missile troops, engineers that capture and repair buildings, and vehicles like those from Sonic Adventure 2. and after building a "research" building like a Battle Lab you could start creating more powerful single units such as Sonic, Omega, etc.
Of course SEGA would probably botch it royally because it's clear they haven't had a clue of what they're doing with the franchise for about a decade now.
Apparently the war setting was meant to appeal to Adventure fans who wanted a more serious game while the gameplay was to appeal to modern fans. It was meant to be a rushed attempt to get all the fans on the same page. Sonic team didn’t want to do it as much as they felt like trying to appeal to all fans
This is the best review I've seen for Sonic Forces.And the fact that you understand what makes a Sonic game good gives you that much more credibility. Great work and cheers. :)
that "forced" joke you just "unleashed" really "colored" my opinions of this scene
.
.
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mania....
THIS WAS REALLY WEIRD BECAUSE I READ THAT COMMENT SECONDS BEFORE THE LINE IN THE VIDEO. I mean, what are the chances?
no lost world?
Tehsnakerer should write for Sonic games.
It must have taken generations for you to come up with this joke.
absolute Mania-c
new classic's music sounds like someone beating a genesis to death with a synthesizer
You know - I wish Sonic breaking free was later in the game. Would have made the edgy story more believable and cinematic.
38:38 "A fake? How?" Sonic, it's _Shadow._ He's an artificial life form, you _know_ he can be cloned/copied, you were _there_ on the space station where he was created!
As someone that dislikes the Sonic franchise, I want whoever's reading this to know how much I hate that I know all of this.
26:35 Sonic Forces: Revengeance
Demonhorse1
Beat me to it, I guess.
"your speed, it yearns to bath in the coins of your enemies, but you hold it back!"
I'm trying to find a video of the MG Ray battle but instead of Rules of Nature it's Fist Bump but i can't find so i'll just say that there's a video like that instead of linking it here
Gun the Wolf.
You had me busting up.
I wouldn't be surprised if the original idea was to have Sonic trapped in null-space until the end of the game, which is why him coming back is supposed to be such a big moment. But then somebody at Sega pointed out that, even with an avatar, having you play as not-Sonic for most of a Sonic game probably wouldn't go over well. I guess blowing up a prison and killing everyone to escape works too.
The work you put into this script is amazing. You hooked me and gave me a genuine laugh a bunch, feels rare in my older age but dang some of those jokes just snuck up on me xD thanks! Thanks for keeping it real too, I can't wait for them to drop this genre and make an adventure 2 successor.
Green Hill
Green Hill
Green Hill
Green Hill
Green Hill
Green Hill
😂
Sonic Forces 2: Gun the Wolf's Struggle with PTSD
I don't even care for Sonic, why am I realizing this 34 minutes in?
(I have a soft spot for cheesy butt metal/rock shit too, put me and tehsnakerer in a firing line together)
Funny, how Infinite is voiced by Liam O'Brien, the guy behind the reverse Flash in injustice 2 and ergo proxy.
As usual you kept my attention over the course of over an hour on a game/series I couldn't care less about.
By the by, I'd really like to see you review more obscure games nobody's ever heard of, I have a few suggestions from different genres that I think would fit your video style.
Which are?
The Dream Machine, which I think I have already suggested to you at some point, was finished this year. its a very weird point and click game made entirely in claymation.
7 Grand steps, sort of a mash up of a board game an arcade game and a strategy game.
and Captain Claw which I actually grew up with, probably still the hardest game I've ever played, its a platformer with some combat elements and from what I remember was pretty alright despite its difficulty.
dude, what's wrong with the sonic series besides the games?
"Bears have a better attack"
*every enemy save bosses takes 1 hit to destroy*
lol
EDIT: ....you forgot to mention the way that the ending song doesn't fit the mood of the game in the slightest *cries*
Know this is old but seriously the end credits song sounds like it belonged to the Sonic Forces that this TRIED to be but failed at due to not having a clue what made the stories of the adventure days so good and compelling
I love the Phantom Ruby as a concept. It's basically a Lantern Corp ring down to being powered by willpower and needing to be recharged every so often. The only thing limiting Infinite in it's use though is that he's so single minded..Also I think it's worth pointing out that Shadow apparently killed the rest of Infinite's mercenary unit but left him alive because he was so little a threat. At least if you go by the english translation.
I cannot get over the localization making the game edgier. It's hilarious.
The script for this one is fantastic, you're chain-nailing it.
Mouse cursor's visible at about 24:00. I'm loving this review, by the way. Your content's consistently great.
"What a mouse pointer" says the next shot in the top left.
For mobile users:
INDEX
1. Forces Intro 00:00
2. Story: Sonic Meets Infinite 01:43
3. Character Creation: The Avatar Wanders In 03:45
4. Story: Regrouping the Three Characters 06:25
5. Gameplay Boost to Win? Modern Sonic 08:15
6. Gameplay: New Classic 13:07
7. Gameplay: The Armed Avatar 16:55
8. Gameplay: Tag Team 21:15
9. Story: Eggman’s Plan 22:23
10. Music 25:43
11. Gameplay: Stage Length, Obstacles, and Bosses 28:27
12. Gameplay: Score, Collectibles, and rewards 35:13
13. Story: The Phantom Ruby 38:12
14. Story: Null Space 43:20
15. Sonic in a War Setting 45:36
16. Story: The Grand Finales 48:30
17. Conclusion 57:24
Where does eggman get the money to pay for all the shit that he builds anyway?
As far as those Ghost Stones are concerned, magic. Like, actual magic.
Steals it? A whacko is actually crazy enough to lend some cash to destry the world.
Broccoli He owns multiple casino’s
Where does he get the MATERIALS?!!!
Is noone going to notice he said " anything powers?" xD best line. Anything powers.
This review came up in my recommended and I need to thank you for such an depth retrospective. You got down to all the nitty gritty stuff, including that bloody random platform in the Death Egg stage. I really dig channels that make these kinds of reviews
53:30 sounds like when someones talking and they suddenly get out of breath and they're struggling to keep talking and their voice somehow gets louder
Definitely one of your best reviews and easily the best long-form review of Forces. The game is decidedly mediocre but has just enough moments of potential that I still found it sort of charming and enjoyable. Enough so to get all the Trophies on PS4 anyways, but I can't see myself coming back to this one anytime soon.
I'm a bit taken aback at how in-depth you went at the story of all things but you made a lot of good points. It's a shame that Sonic Team will probably learn the wrong lessons from Force's negative reception as a whole and will probably drop the Boost gameplay for something new that plays worse (like they did with Lost World) and will go back to making "stories" that make Mario look deep and mature. I mean, none of the 3D Sonic games have "good" stories, but at least they're often enjoyably cheesy but that cheese was lacking recently until Forces.
TLDR: I hope Christian Whitehead and his team are working on another Sonic game because I'm pretty damn hesitant to get excited at whatever Sonic Team comes up with next since Forces is not only "not good" unlike Colors or Generations, but it lacks the many of endearing elements that still made many of the "bad" 3D Sonic games fun.
Thanks for the kind words, and yeah, I was curious if I went a bit too much into story on this one but I stand by what I say about it. I think this is the first game to feel like it's story was missing chunks however, I've never felt confusion at what should be such an easy to follow story before, and generally even Sonic plots have understood how powerful to make their characters so they don't just look absolutely stupid at every turn.
WaddleDee105 agreed
I give a 3.5/10. No kidding, I thought it was that bad.
I thought the two Adventure games and Heroes have fine fine stories. But Unleashed and the two storybook games are how Sonic stories should be done
If you actually were thinking too hard about a Sonic game, you'd understand that the Virtual Reality takes an absurd amount of energy to manifest, thus Eggman needing 3 days for the plan. So they can't do it willy-nilly. The Phantom Ruby is a power source that can be amplified or neutralised by additional power sources.
I feel like the plot points are serviceable but with no connective tissue and all the stakes (save the sun) being handwaved right away, there's little reason to care.
In Sonic Adventure 2, it was the mystery that motivated the player to continue the story. Here if you think there was one, it was probably an illusion.
"Well that *forced* joke you just *unleashed* really *colored* my opinion on this scene"
I am at a Loss(T) of wor(L)ds
Mania.
I'm gonna be honest I never liked the idea that the entire world was made up of these anthropomorphic animals. I always like the way it was in the adventure games and unleashed, with the majority of the world population being humans, with the only sonic like characters being Sonic and his friends, and I guess some other creatures since for sonic and company to exist, they need family, so stuff like that.
They kinda jump between being in mobius and earth but yeah I prefer mainline sonic games to feature on earth
Your reviews are honestly some of the best I’ve ever seen on TH-cam, keep up the good work dude :)
I can think of a better example of a threatening line during Infinite’s last fight, how Wormwood told Pac-Man at the end of Pac-Man World 2, he will make an excellent addition to his graveyard, because he’ll die and make an excellent trophy and set piece here in his home, wow, that’s grim yet not overbearing and fits perfectly.
I'm so glad I watched this to the very end so I could check the Sonic Fanon page for gun.
I have a bad cold/possible sinus infection right now so laughing is very painful. Needless to say, I am presently in agony.
Sorry about that
@@Tehsnakerer Don't worry. It's a good pain.
The game where Knuckles turns into Kaz from mgs5
Why are we still here? Just to chuckle? Every night, I feel my lego shoes. My arm... even my knuckles. The rings I've lost. The furry OCs I've lost. Won't stop hurting. It's like they're all still there. You feel it too, don't you?
The thing I hate most about modern Sonic games is that Shadow got Chaos Powers WITHOUT using the Chaos Emeralds. At this point he is just Sonic but with more abilitys so literally an objectivly more powerful version of Sonic. This is probably the most STUPID change they made for his character. Sonic just looks so weak in comparison.
"Infinite, run a search on who can escape Null Space"
"... finished. There is no... one."
I long for a good sonic game.
I grew up with Sonic Adventure DX and SA2B and they remain some of my favorite games. I know they're not considered good games by most but they basically built my gateway into the world of gaming. So watching sonic flop over and over is kinda upsetting.
When they're considered the best Sonic games ever, and therefore, really good games?
Well people got into gaming with 06 forces and Lost world and loved them despite their issues.
I don't think forces was a flop, i have seen a lot of people liking it
"That forced joke you just unleashed really colored my opinion on this scene. Mania."
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand subscribe.
The grapple model is the thing that annoyed me for the entirety of the game. You see the ends of it but the ends are transparent- it comes straight out of the OC's hand- and sometimes it appears to grapple onto nothing at all
Imagine if they just left Sonic in Null space since he was defeated, only getting out once the avatar entered. Much better return than literally the second mission.
Thank the gods for you. JUST in time for my one free day from work. Time to kick back, get comfy and witness another unnecessary sonic game through the eyes of someone else.
not to mention infinite and eggman are just having a chat in the middle of green hill zone. for no reason.
The story in this game was so botched, they could’ve had a whole sonic satam type storyline that was darker yet charming but instead they resorted to rushing through the majority part of a revolution NOT TO MENTION THE DEFEAT OF SONIC in a pitiful 2 sentences, focusing on nostalgia pandering with classic sonic( who doesnt even control well ESPECIALLY in comparison to mania), and allocating a bunch of resources into a misguided and misdirected sack of potential.
Yeah this game is rushed to in every aspect and the level design is so poopy that they even recycle level structures so some levels are just copies of each other. This game sucks.
Honestly, I'd take another Shadow the Hedgehog over Forces, just because Shadow the Hedgehog had absolutely no restraint and was kind of amazing to watch in the same way that a train wreck is.
Actually I'd take another Sonic Riders, too, that game was lit
15:25 Yeah, that one’s not just a Classic issue. Can say for myself that I had jumping jank with all three characters. Shoutout to one particular jump in Imperial Tower where, unless I basically tiptoed up to it, the game would just set me to max momentum as soon as I left the ground, making me overshoot the platform that was only a foot away from me.
This game is Mishandled like the Buu Saga in Dragon Ball.
They both do have great ideas with terrible execution.
51:06 Gun the Wolf has a purple clown nose on. Fucking hell, man. That killed me.
27:44 i watched a YTP and i thought the music in this stage of the game was just for a dumb joke, BUT WHAT THE ACTUAL S**T?. ITS ACTUALLY WHAT THE SOUNDTRACK FOR THIS STAGE IS?
I fucking love your Videos man, still watching them every single night!
That moment when you realize Liam O'Brien voices Edgelord the villain... ;-;
Infinite: *speaks*
Me: Liam... why?
Love your avatars, seeing him in the cut scenes often made me lol
42:58
I'd like to think that it was an oversight to blow it up with the prisoners on board, but we all know that Japan loves war crimes
Why did Silver travel back in time and not stop the cause of Robotnik taking over? Seems stupid to return at a later point in time when Robotnik seemingly already won
That would require Silver to be relevant to plot and for 06 to still be canon, something which Sega wisely avoids.
At least the Chao garden felt rewarding.
And two thing this game made me hate tails and this should of been the shadow game
I fully agree his charecter abilities are byond suited for this
I still mock the "Im not weak" infinite spiel. Points for sometimes adding the "I say As I shrink and turn into a corncob."
"Oh look, we have soap shoes."
Best thing other than Mortar canyon in this game lol
Seeing this and Crowbcat's "Sonic 25th Ruined Anniversary" back-to-back gives proper definition to the word "contrast".
How are new sonic games still being made?
Everyone complains that they are shit and yet every 2 years there is a new one
That's the beauty of having a fissoned fanbase like Sonic. People will always shit on you, but people will always be willing to buy games and claim you're great too (or buy just to shit on your stuff).
Cuz games like mania and Generations exist. Mania literally came out at the same time as Forces, so ppl weren't as mad about this game
Because sometimes they make a good game. And it's fanbase is huge and entirely composed of maniacs
all in all, i appreciate the *EFFORT* to remedy the problems of the last few stories, and i like the idea that they tried to do something genuinely cool, interesting, and went all out in establishing the setting, but the execution and the story itself left so much to be desired, and was much worse than we could have imagined.
24:14
I mean Eggman defeated Sonic in the intro cutscene of Sonic Unleashed, and that was almost a decade before Sonic Forces was made.
Also Sonic is canonically 15, which means that, unless he was able to defeat Eggman at birth (which is unlikely), he wouldn't even have been beating Eggman for a single decade.
7:35 - Where my PC bluescreened. Multiple times. I can forgive a bad game, but I cannot forgive a bad port.
So they took the Green Lantern ring, and turned it red? Powered by willpower and an imagination, they should have hired a comic writer for this game because damn, Hal Jordan would be disappointed in Infinite and his obsession with cubes
The Green Lantern version would be the same but with green fists instead of cubes
Hal Jordan isn't much better, his imagination is weak as fuck. Kyle at least did cool shit like Mechs
@@RaithSienar what comics is Kyle the focus in?
@@worldweaver2691 Everything green lantern Post Zero Hour just about. Until around 2006 I think, when Geoff John's took over and retooled the entire mythos of the character and brought back Hal.
For context, Kyle was an art student so he was a lot more creative and inventive than Hal and the artists that worked on his books were usually super talented.
The only human green lantern that comes close to his creativity is Jon Stewart, who's a Vietnam vet and an architect, who would summon full on naval destroyer levels of artillery. At one point in Blackest Night he summons a construct that's his entire platoon from Vietnam armed to the teeth to blow up a planer's worth of nightmare space zombies.
@@thekidkrow >.> whelp time to consume Blackest Night.
"I'm thinking knuckles is in change because he's dumb enough not to be put down by the losses he's caused."
Honestly that's probably it.
47:12 and while doing that getting the lighting on his model removed for some reason
38:37
someone remember the cutsene in SA2 (before radical highway starts) when shadow keep looking the screen and his eyes are out of his head?
"The Horrors of war are there."
Eh...sure, we hear guys losing fights on the radio, but Rookie/Gun is a God amongst animals. We don't even see any disposable mooks get taken out by an artillery strike near us.
YESSS!!! Finally someone talked about how weird the boost felt in this game
51:13 I'm only just now realizing they are boosting right into Infinite's crotch. Ouch.
What are they thinking? He’s got nothing there!
So you get your own character... and still mostly play (2) sonic(s). Uh alright
Can't be letting people have too much fun now
So when I had played this game I did a boostless run. Not boosting makes the game take significantly longer and adds a bit of added difficulty. As it turns out you can beat 90% of the game without boosting. The only part of the game that requires boosting is the third act of the final boss. Imagen playing the entire game up to that point without boosting, beating every challenge that comes your way and feeling very accomplished with yourself (especially after spending way too long trying to defeat Metal) then getting to that final segment and having to basically spam the button that you had never even touched once throughout the rest of the game. I did not find the final boss fight to be fun.
Out of the three characters, I found the custom character stages to be the most fun to play. Simply because the stages were made with a character who doesn't have a boost, so they are paced better.
The worst character to play as was Classic Sonic. Not having a homing attack was super annoying. The whole time I felt like I was playing as a worse Sonic.
The story of this game is so bad, that it basically sucks out all the enjoyment of this game. The only way I could have fun with this game was to skip all the cutscenes.
Also, playing as Shadow is kinda fun.
tldr: I did a boostless run, Final boss was not fun (for me), Classic Sonic worst to play, Custom Character best to play, Story suck, Shadow good.