The Destiny 2 community's obsession with hand canon & shotgun/sniper meta never ceases to amaze me. We brand every meta that isn't HC/shotgun as toxic and beg for nerfs, then complain when Comp never changes. When you add the cheaters/Ximmers on top of that, it's no wonder the PvP community is struggling.
I think the hand cannon shotgun/sniper play style is the entry. The fun stuff come after learning to use those. I can definitely agree that we need change. I like d2 year 1 pre curse of Osiris because it was balanced. 450 autos were the easiest to use. But 110 handcannons were technically busted. Had a faster ttk had the option for peakshooting.problem... everyone thought it was boring and everyone wanted special weapons.
I will never understand why people get so upset about GLs in PvP.....yet they use shot guns, shot guns are the most low skill broken PvP weapon. Being able to one shot people from 10 meters away. If someone is destroying you with a GL it's not because they have a broken weapon, it's because they are good. A good gl player is annoying.
The only shotguns one shotting at 10m are slugs, that's hardly a fair comparison. And people don't get upset at GLs, they don't like blinting. It's always an annoying strat to play against no matter if you're using a GL, Bow, Eriana's, whatever.
I guess this weapon is more of a " tool". Using lion ramparts with this thing makes me go woosh from one side of the map to the other and they barely know what the hell is happening Sometimes when I know they are gonna rush me with a shotgun I just " rocketjump" vertically to escape and inflict a tiny baby sized damage to the rusher. Hunters will sprawl like cockroaches whenever they receive 1 damage anyways , so this is a good tool to keep them hunters at bay.
You're right that the utility aspect of the rocket jump is cool in PvP, but realistically you have to give up your primary slot weapon and exotic slot for something that has pretty much had its whole exotic perk disabled for no reason. It's definitely a fun gun and that's kinda why I'm frustrated because nerfing it into the ground like this was not needed as the weapon was never going to be a problem in the sandbox.
@@Epicdefender758 thats the thing. "its just a fun niche thing to do in PVP" not even worthy to run or try to build around it I do agree with pretty much all of your points in the video. seems they played it too safe in order to avoid another " mountaintop " era, however i do believe just by tweaking certain things it would make it more viable. Like, maybe getting 1 kill for 1 special ammo or 5 kills for half of the ammunition of a heavy ammo box. Its not like we dont see the same f***ng hunters or arc titans running what seems unlimited shotgun ammo anyways, a couple of bullets here and there wouldnt hurt at all. NOW hear me out.... what about a grenade launcher... but it heals teammates and damages oponents? ( damage boosted for healing teammates first)
I learned to love it after I stopped trying to see it as a Stasis Fighting Lion. In reality it's like a Stasis Mountaintop, and I use it to mop up my Orwing's Maul hits.
I feel they have tried to “balance” every weapon so much that fun and extreme set ups no longer reward the time to use them than the “safe” options they have been pushing for.
the whole appeal of it is that it makes unlimited special and heavy ammo from killing trash mobs, it's specifically designed to be ammo support for PvE, so of course it's trash in PvP.
@Epicdefender758 i agree to an extent. It's a tradeoff. I see it like running grapple or a healing grenade instead of something like solar grenades or swarm grenades. You're giving up area denial and damage output for mobility or healing in those cases. It's a hard sell in this case because it's basically trading a weapon slot and your exotic slot for traversal. If this was a legendary, it probably wouldn't be so bad. Edit: i skimmed your comment first time and didn't realize I was basically quoting you in the end there, lol.
if only direct impacts could generate atleast 3 vestiges, id use weavewalk easy; imagine just running punch distance into someone just to stare at them while they bleed out ammo and theres nothing they can do
have you tried stasis warlock/fighting lion one hit build? direct hit to a frozen target will one tap now in pvp with the right fragments. would love to see a vid of your opinion. big fan, thanks epic
i guess the weapon works more as a sniper or a scout rifle cuz the grenade goes straight like mountaintop, contraire to fighting lion wich you could calculate the trajectory and bounce on the walls to secure the kill
@@Retarded_Ape I use it with lion ramparts as a " Air support" tool when one teammate is fighting someone else. It's fun , and it can ruin someone's day
i dropped 40 with alethonym and a glaive, it requires a different playstyle to be made efficient and an elligible weapon pick. instead of expecting every weapon that resembles another one to feel, shoot, and perform the same, adapt.
@@razorback3358 strange how my alethonym says "30 crucible kills" and my glaive says "336 crucible kills" all good tho, keep coping just cuz your weapon repertoire consists of 3 things lmao
@@exomoneylabel i actually didnt realize until very recently that you could melee with glaives, i only shot it as a hotswap pair with my rose. thanks for the heads up tho
As a forerunner main I was so happy about the idea of the rocket frame sidearms used it for a couple games and realised it’s not meant to be used in pvp
This gun uses the same micro missile frame as Mountaintop, and back then when MT was good, the sandbox was a lot different. Now, with how the sandbox is now, GLs like MT and Alethonym are just not good for PVP sadly, especially considering it's such a cool grenade launcher.
Definitely agree that metas last too long. If Bungie came out with more frequent sandbox updates, we could have a constantly shifting meta where everything gets a chance to shine at different times. I mean who cares if a GL meta comes around now and then if it only lasts 3-4 weeks? Same thing with other "annoying" weapons.
The longer this game exists the more it seems like bungie regrets adding a PvP gamemode. They had to have the entire community nagging them for them to add new maps and they are still dragging their feet on feedback I use to love playing PvP casually the gun play in this game is so unique kinda sucks that bungie doesn't seem interested in growing that side of the game.
Bungie definitely has double standards with balance so much. They are terrified of SMGs having more than 14 zoom for some reason, while letting 140s, precison shottys, and 340 pulses dominate the game for months. They leave GLs in the dust, and keep adaptive SMGs one of the worst primaries in the game. Its just tiring playing the same shit every game.
Step1: Close out of Destiny 2 Step2: Open up or download Team Fortress 2 Step3: Find a server or load up payload in casual Step4: Pick Solider and have fun
Step 1: Close out of Destiny 2 Step 2: Open up or download the deadest game on the planet Step 3: Find a hacker infested server Step 4: quit the game because its full of bots
it needs "grenades and horseshoes" it fires like a rocket, why not give it a rocket perk, it is incredibly hard to get a kill with Alethonym that I kinda only use it in PvE since it's actually very useful there I know it's a skill issue but I actually haven't killed any guardians with it yet
@@Epicdefender758 it doesn't have the ability to explode whenever you want it to, so it should have the ability to be somewhat usable in mid air, you feel as useless as a WW2 AA gun that fires 10 rounds per minute, all the enemy has to do is leave the ground and you lost the fight, it's just stupid again skill issue but at the same time, a GL with a terrible iron sight shouldn't have that massive of a drawback I've been using it nonstop in PvE got around 13k kills
This video was as useless as the gun in PVP. Take a look at every other exotic and there are only a handful that are good in both. The rest are tailored to one PVE OR PVP.
Looks pretty bad trying to use it as a grenade launcher. But of the way it shoots and the damage it does, it kind of just looks like a shieldless primary glaive. Could probably pull off the combo I do with a glaive: shoot, bakris dodge (with marksman dodge equipped), shoot again. Although it’s still bad.
You gotta double direct hit lol. Need to practice in tf2 my guy. Jk they should completely go into the stake identity, tripple the velocity and completely make the blast radius one third of what it is currently. Ultimate skill, no bullet magnrtism no aim assist. Just let direct hit soilder be viable.
For years shotguns and hc's have dominated the destiney 2 pvp meta for too long so i dont regret it when i see this even if shotties are still super meta its too bad the majority of weapons arent 🤔
Bungie is really holding back with grenade launchers. We couldn't even craft a breach gl until season 20 because bungie gives us a bunch of shit wave frames
Nah i heavily dont agree. They released this perfectly…. But I do agree Ice Breaker WILL get a nerf. That assist ammunition shit needs to disappear. Precision kills should give ammunition back
They certainly dropped the ball on this one for sure. Could have been a great opportunity for a unique playstyle. The pvp side of the gun in terms of ammo is understandable but then again like you said Ice Breaker shakes up that logic it's hard to wrap your head around some of these decisions. Atleast Fighting Lion got a bit better 🙌 Love your vids dude keep that sh!t up 💪
I mean they can always buff it in the future. But it already left a bad taste for PvP and the season will probably be almost over and move on to something else.
you're right in that we'd all rather they release a gun weak and buff it later, rather than have a gun super strong on release and get nerfed. unfortunately with the state of the game, if im not mistaken, crucible balancing updates are very, very infrequent and so having to wait for the weapon to drop and then even longer for them to balance (what should be a quick stat fix) just sucks. And by the time the gun does get buffed, everyones already moved on to the new shotgun of the month or the new hand cannon of the season. And then theres always the chance they dont get the balancing right, you just have to wait another period of time and hope they address it again.
Epic: my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
😂😅🤣
The Destiny 2 community's obsession with hand canon & shotgun/sniper meta never ceases to amaze me. We brand every meta that isn't HC/shotgun as toxic and beg for nerfs, then complain when Comp never changes. When you add the cheaters/Ximmers on top of that, it's no wonder the PvP community is struggling.
I think the hand cannon shotgun/sniper play style is the entry.
The fun stuff come after learning to use those.
I can definitely agree that we need change.
I like d2 year 1 pre curse of Osiris because it was balanced.
450 autos were the easiest to use.
But 110 handcannons were technically busted. Had a faster ttk had the option for peakshooting.problem... everyone thought it was boring and everyone wanted special weapons.
I will never understand why people get so upset about GLs in PvP.....yet they use shot guns, shot guns are the most low skill broken PvP weapon. Being able to one shot people from 10 meters away. If someone is destroying you with a GL it's not because they have a broken weapon, it's because they are good. A good gl player is annoying.
The only shotguns one shotting at 10m are slugs, that's hardly a fair comparison. And people don't get upset at GLs, they don't like blinting. It's always an annoying strat to play against no matter if you're using a GL, Bow, Eriana's, whatever.
@@ElMellowYellow I really don't think you play enough PvP then.
@@JGburneraccount That's your comeback? I basically only play PvP these days. You could at least try and refute my points
@@ElMellowYellow it's not a comeback. We aren't fighting.
@@JGburneraccountyet you keep responding lmao 🙏🏼🙏🏼😭😭
I guess this weapon is more of a " tool".
Using lion ramparts with this thing makes me go woosh from one side of the map to the other and they barely know what the hell is happening
Sometimes when I know they are gonna rush me with a shotgun I just " rocketjump" vertically to escape and inflict a tiny baby sized damage to the rusher.
Hunters will sprawl like cockroaches whenever they receive 1 damage anyways , so this is a good tool to keep them hunters at bay.
You're right that the utility aspect of the rocket jump is cool in PvP, but realistically you have to give up your primary slot weapon and exotic slot for something that has pretty much had its whole exotic perk disabled for no reason. It's definitely a fun gun and that's kinda why I'm frustrated because nerfing it into the ground like this was not needed as the weapon was never going to be a problem in the sandbox.
@@Epicdefender758 thats the thing.
"its just a fun niche thing to do in PVP" not even worthy to run or try to build around it
I do agree with pretty much all of your points in the video. seems they played it too safe in order to avoid another " mountaintop " era, however i do believe just by tweaking certain things it would make it more viable.
Like, maybe getting 1 kill for 1 special ammo or 5 kills for half of the ammunition of a heavy ammo box.
Its not like we dont see the same f***ng hunters or arc titans running what seems unlimited shotgun ammo anyways, a couple of bullets here and there wouldnt hurt at all.
NOW hear me out.... what about a grenade launcher... but it heals teammates and damages oponents? ( damage boosted for healing teammates first)
Imma use it in PvP now
Good luck.
username check out
I learned to love it after I stopped trying to see it as a Stasis Fighting Lion. In reality it's like a Stasis Mountaintop, and I use it to mop up my Orwing's Maul hits.
It wasn’t designed as a PVP weapon, I thought that was pretty obvious from the second they showed it off.
Naw
This thing took the Fighting Lion's reload speed.
I feel they have tried to “balance” every weapon so much that fun and extreme set ups no longer reward the time to use them than the “safe” options they have been pushing for.
I didnt even consider this but now Im mad for it
the whole appeal of it is that it makes unlimited special and heavy ammo from killing trash mobs, it's specifically designed to be ammo support for PvE, so of course it's trash in PvP.
Yeah, it's ass if you use it as a weapon. It's not too terrible if you use it as a traversal tool instead though.
Imo giving up exotic slot and primary weapon slot for just a traversal tool isn't worth it, but everyone is entitled to playing how they want.
@Epicdefender758 i agree to an extent. It's a tradeoff. I see it like running grapple or a healing grenade instead of something like solar grenades or swarm grenades. You're giving up area denial and damage output for mobility or healing in those cases.
It's a hard sell in this case because it's basically trading a weapon slot and your exotic slot for traversal. If this was a legendary, it probably wouldn't be so bad.
Edit: i skimmed your comment first time and didn't realize I was basically quoting you in the end there, lol.
@@Shlippi I've never seen a person re-iterate what the creator just commented but in a way longer form lmao😂😂
@@moneybilla yeah, it didn't really realize it until I re-read his comment after
They need to give it 100 ammo and 900 RPM like an auto rifle.
if only direct impacts could generate atleast 3 vestiges, id use weavewalk easy; imagine just running punch distance into someone just to stare at them while they bleed out ammo and theres nothing they can do
5:50 AMEN
As an unlimited ammo GL i would say balanced not trash
Is this the weapon I gotta use to gild my flawless title again? What’s another exotic weapon for the season
Icebreaker
you can just swap to the gun right before the 5th round win and you’ll still get it
The micro missile frame is hard to use in pvp. Although it is fun to rocket jump with
have you tried stasis warlock/fighting lion one hit build? direct hit to a frozen target will one tap now in pvp with the right fragments. would love to see a vid of your opinion. big fan, thanks epic
Can't see myself running lion with anything but icarus dash for rain of fire, but it does sound like a cool build!
i guess the weapon works more as a sniper or a scout rifle cuz the grenade goes straight like mountaintop, contraire to fighting lion wich you could calculate the trajectory and bounce on the walls to secure the kill
Hardly. It's low damage and small blast radius keep it from being viable, and it's exotic trait is nonexistent in pvp
@@Retarded_Ape
I use it with lion ramparts as a " Air support" tool when one teammate is fighting someone else.
It's fun , and it can ruin someone's day
i dropped 40 with alethonym and a glaive, it requires a different playstyle to be made efficient and an elligible weapon pick.
instead of expecting every weapon that resembles another one to feel, shoot, and perform the same, adapt.
Congrats bro you dropped 35 assists by doing splash damage while teamshotting and 5 glaive kills
@@razorback3358 i just know bro was spamming tf outta the melee button trying to get those kills in
@@razorback3358 strange how my alethonym says "30 crucible kills" and my glaive says "336 crucible kills"
all good tho, keep coping just cuz your weapon repertoire consists of 3 things lmao
@@exomoneylabel i actually didnt realize until very recently that you could melee with glaives, i only shot it as a hotswap pair with my rose.
thanks for the heads up tho
Gon need some evidence bud otherwise it ain't true
As a forerunner main I was so happy about the idea of the rocket frame sidearms used it for a couple games and realised it’s not meant to be used in pvp
Yep another good example of a weapon archetype they didn't even try to make viable
i had a feeling this would happen
This gun uses the same micro missile frame as Mountaintop, and back then when MT was good, the sandbox was a lot different. Now, with how the sandbox is now, GLs like MT and Alethonym are just not good for PVP sadly, especially considering it's such a cool grenade launcher.
I get that it was "made for PvE" but there have been plenty of things made for one sandbox that aren't completely useless in the other.
I was thinking of trying to make it work with the new titan boots (it might be fun)
It's definitely fun but not viable in any competitive capacity.
in PVE, youll find more success with that,
PVP, trust me, youre gonna have a bad time
@@blackyonbithat's the problem
@blackyonbi There is still hope (there isn't, I'm just coping)
Bro its clearly made for pve
Definitely agree that metas last too long. If Bungie came out with more frequent sandbox updates, we could have a constantly shifting meta where everything gets a chance to shine at different times. I mean who cares if a GL meta comes around now and then if it only lasts 3-4 weeks? Same thing with other "annoying" weapons.
Using this thing with an aggressive glaive is pretty fun. Doesnt excuse how caca it is tho...
The longer this game exists the more it seems like bungie regrets adding a PvP gamemode. They had to have the entire community nagging them for them to add new maps and they are still dragging their feet on feedback I use to love playing PvP casually the gun play in this game is so unique kinda sucks that bungie doesn't seem interested in growing that side of the game.
Bungie definitely has double standards with balance so much. They are terrified of SMGs having more than 14 zoom for some reason, while letting 140s, precison shottys, and 340 pulses dominate the game for months.
They leave GLs in the dust, and keep adaptive SMGs one of the worst primaries in the game. Its just tiring playing the same shit every game.
Any gun can be anyoing if u have right person use it
Step1: Close out of Destiny 2
Step2: Open up or download Team Fortress 2
Step3: Find a server or load up payload in casual
Step4: Pick Solider and have fun
Step 1: Close out of Destiny 2
Step 2: Open up or download the deadest game on the planet
Step 3: Find a hacker infested server
Step 4: quit the game because its full of bots
it needs "grenades and horseshoes" it fires like a rocket, why not give it a rocket perk, it is incredibly hard to get a kill with Alethonym that I kinda only use it in PvE since it's actually very useful there
I know it's a skill issue but I actually haven't killed any guardians with it yet
That's an interesting idea
@@Epicdefender758 it doesn't have the ability to explode whenever you want it to, so it should have the ability to be somewhat usable in mid air, you feel as useless as a WW2 AA gun that fires 10 rounds per minute, all the enemy has to do is leave the ground and you lost the fight, it's just stupid
again skill issue but at the same time, a GL with a terrible iron sight shouldn't have that massive of a drawback
I've been using it nonstop in PvE got around 13k kills
This video was as useless as the gun in PVP. Take a look at every other exotic and there are only a handful that are good in both. The rest are tailored to one PVE OR PVP.
Looks pretty bad trying to use it as a grenade launcher. But of the way it shoots and the damage it does, it kind of just looks like a shieldless primary glaive. Could probably pull off the combo I do with a glaive: shoot, bakris dodge (with marksman dodge equipped), shoot again.
Although it’s still bad.
Coriolis force would like to know your location
This thing doesn't suck... As a mobility tool.
micro missile frame its like using jotunn
You gotta double direct hit lol. Need to practice in tf2 my guy. Jk they should completely go into the stake identity, tripple the velocity and completely make the blast radius one third of what it is currently. Ultimate skill, no bullet magnrtism no aim assist. Just let direct hit soilder be viable.
For years shotguns and hc's have dominated the destiney 2 pvp meta for too long so i dont regret it when i see this even if shotties are still super meta its too bad the majority of weapons arent 🤔
Bungie is really holding back with grenade launchers. We couldn't even craft a breach gl until season 20 because bungie gives us a bunch of shit wave frames
Nah i heavily dont agree. They released this perfectly…. But I do agree Ice Breaker WILL get a nerf. That assist ammunition shit needs to disappear. Precision kills should give ammunition back
Its a grenade launcher with infinite ammo, they had to make it bad in pvp.
so you just gonna forget fighting lion exists or???
Fighting lion got nerfed to the ground its dog now @@naylor7495
1:38 yeah it is pretty pathetic of Bungie
Agreed
this isnt a weapon its a movement tool 💀
They certainly dropped the ball on this one for sure. Could have been a great opportunity for a unique playstyle. The pvp side of the gun in terms of ammo is understandable but then again like you said Ice Breaker shakes up that logic it's hard to wrap your head around some of these decisions. Atleast Fighting Lion got a bit better 🙌
Love your vids dude keep that sh!t up 💪
Id rather deal with grenade launchers then that damned auto rifle lol
I mean they can always buff it in the future. But it already left a bad taste for PvP and the season will probably be almost over and move on to something else.
you're right in that we'd all rather they release a gun weak and buff it later, rather than have a gun super strong on release and get nerfed. unfortunately with the state of the game, if im not mistaken, crucible balancing updates are very, very infrequent and so having to wait for the weapon to drop and then even longer for them to balance (what should be a quick stat fix) just sucks. And by the time the gun does get buffed, everyones already moved on to the new shotgun of the month or the new hand cannon of the season. And then theres always the chance they dont get the balancing right, you just have to wait another period of time and hope they address it again.
So it's shit because it's a mountaintop frame which you're trying to use like a regular frame. Okay bud
Uggghhhh this shit is sooooo laaaaame lemme fkn market garden in pvp
Hot take but tbh this gun just sucks in general PvP and PvE
Congratulations you just realized weapons have individual purposes, this gun is a tool for ammo and borderline nothing more
It isn't a tool for ammo in PvP... You need 10 kills for a special brick. That's the whole point of the video
@@Epicdefender758 exactly but my point is your expectations should have been tailored to begin with
Bungie is SO AFRAID of old mountaintop that it's kinda sad
Good.
Good.
bet
Its not pvp gun
Good
😭😭😭