Goomwaves are TERRIBLE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Goomwaves are TERRIBLE
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Melee has a controllers issue right now. In the age of rectangles and gamecube controller mods, the disparity between controllers has been a hot topic as of late. It is pretty clear that the expensive commercial options are far superior to the more affordable ones. However, this doesn't have to be the case. With 1.03, we no longer have the hide functioning controllers behind a paywall.
#thefranChise #melee #haxmixtape - เกม
1.03 is the future
What's the outro instrumental? please answer ive been looking for it since i found your channel.
i agree we need 1.03 but people have been paying Big money for controllers since the dawn of time bro nothing new
how is the game pay to win actaully u have finally missed bro look at fight sticks they all have different internals and people mod them to make them better
I'm completely behind this and I sell modded gcc's as a hobby/side money, given it wouldn't really affect me since, most of my work is just cosmetic/restoration and simple performance mods like capacitors to stop unwanted snapback. Just found your channel a few days ago and I've been loving it, keep it up.
@@user-xz4pv2sw7u we just change the pcb so we can play on other consoles. You're reaching.
"Melee is a perfect accident, we just have to mod it so our controllers actually fucking work" lmao
that era where nintendo was making games so bad that the community went back and convinced themselves melee mustve been an accident was pretty funny. you can tell from the changes in the hundreds of small PAL version a few months after the NTSC release, that nintendo knew exactly what they were making
@@KaloKross by nerfing link in pal lol
I have good answer... hax made 1.03 and people don't like admitting hax is right
1.03 is a cute name but i think if it were advertised as just UCF 2.0 then it would be accepted much faster. That and if some more pros got on board. It’s cringe how few pros are willing to support hax.
Hate to say it but your prob right.
yeah this is probably correct
"It’s cringe how few pros are willing to support hax."
all because of a stupid video that he's long apologized for and admitted was unhinged. It's amazing that they don't forgive him on that, yet they defend countless other liars and bullies in the community.
They wont forgive hax yet leffen still exists
@@alecrutz956 they cant forgive hax but they can forgive leffen
Hax’s name being on it is probably 90% of why it’s not being entertained. If they acknowledge that it exists, they have to acknowledge that hax exists, and by extension acknowledge that they all let him get thrown under the bus.
💯💯💯
It's also a memory card mod in the Slippi era. Since Slippi-Nintendont does pretty much everything something like 20XXTE does and then some, ppl stopped giving memcard-exploit mods the time of day
As a beginner Melee player, I hate how the "game" progressed in a way that allows some heavily modded controller, basically gatekeeping features behind a paywall. 1.03 seems to be a step in the right direction tho
As another beginner Melee player. I see it the same way. I know mango sees z-jump as cheating but someone doesn't see notches as P2W
As a beginner you shouldn't care about pay2win. A decent controller won't boost you up to the intermediate level.
I won't deny the arguments for 1.03 tho. Just the feeling one may get, that they need to pay to win... Enjoy your first years without worrying to much
@@hannesheart_breakermeyer5477 Oh, I know I'm not being limited by my controller, but as someone who enjoys competitive play, its clearly toxic for the scene in the long run, even if I'm not the one directly affected by it. Hope we'll see TOs innovate on that subject!
@@hannesheart_breakermeyer5477 A decent controller lets you buy new moves as a spacie what are you on about
@@PoseidonGaming100 That you guys go a little too far and find any small thing to complain about. Worry about your controller when you feel it dragging you down
Accepting 1.03 would be validating Hax's efforts which the Melee Elite would undeniably sink the community before that ever happens
honestly the worst timeline right now
@@00007jjj ???
I wonder why it would "sink the community"
just children playing a party game at the end of the day, after all
because the melee community is made up of mostly a bunch of self-righteous and vindictive pussies. Hax has been ahead of the curve for a long time.
This is not a video about why the goomey suck, this is a video about why 1.03 should be implemented.
I think a lot of the reason why this doesnt have a ton of top player support is that they all get the best controllers from the best modders, who allow them to cut through queues to get their controllers as fast as possible (depending on the relationship to the modder, sometimes the player even gets them for free). To them, they experience none of the problems that 1.03 would potentially fix, so this doesn't even attract their attention
The only real problem with 1.03 that I see, is Nintendo might not like modifications being used in major tournaments.
Though they seem to have a problem with every melee major nowadays, so I really don't see how it would be a limiting factor.
Poor Hax can't catch a break from the community, even when he actively helps make the game more accessible to players in the long run.
Nintendo can fuck off, what have they ever done for us?
@@EllaEllaAudios That's exactly what I mean. The denial of UCF 1.03 is about as pointless as denying all other iterations of UCF, or every competitive melee mod for that matter.
nintendo doesnt care about ucf why would they care about 1.03 its just the better version
Lets just silently switch to 1.03 and never bring it up at the tournament so nintendo doesnt notice!
Okay see here's your problem, caring what Nintendo thinks.
See Nintendo, doesn't like the fact there is a competitive scene for their games, to begin with.
The big and very plausible reason i have heard is that 1.03 is not a „ghost mod“ meaning there are actual menu changes for remapping buttons for example. And if there is any sign of there being a modded version of melee being used for events Nintendo can shut down the whole event and probably even sue the TOs. Apparently it is already forbidden for commentators to talk about ucf on stream.
1.03 has stealth now
@@thefranChise1 as much as I think 1.03 is better than P2W, even with stealth, there is 100 things that can go wrong at any tournament from supermajor to local. I think a better option would be a UCF type software that can reprogram a controller with 1.03 benefits, while not cheating... Its all so complicated that using 1.02 and unfortunately having to be P2W with good GCCs or just paying and learning how to use a Box is the more accessible option to those looking to compete. Sad reality
1.03 is the best thing to come from the community in some time. Hopefully the Hax taboo doesn't cuck us...
it's so ridiculous too. Hax was mostly right Leffen was and still is an asshole. He just got called out
I never see anyone else talk about how 1.03 is great for EU players too. Loading the NTSC version of the game through nintendont always causes graphical errors on CRT for me, but a PAL copy of melee fixed with 1.03 works just fine.
Maybe im just dumb but 1.03 makes it so much more convenient to play an actual competitive version of the game over here and that alone is so helpful.
big up to EU melee
1. PAL is the actual competitive version
2. I never had graphics issues with nintendont, but I can see the convenience especially for the use of gamecubes
@@hannesheart_breakermeyer5477 My point wasn't about whether PAL is worse than NTSC, more so about the viable controller fixes. PAL could've been very cool if it became the primary version
You probably have a CRT that doesn't support 60hz. You can usually find great 60+hz CRTs for free.
I would highly suggest either getting a CRT that supports 60hz or switching over to a monitor as NTSC is the competitive standard in most (if not all) European countries.
Why are you calling yourself dumb. This is objectively true.
Interesting video, though I do think controllers will always be expensive for the top quality. This definitely evens the playing field, hopefully controllers in the future can aim for durability and precise inputs going forward.
You make a lot of solid points here. Too bad the community likely doesn't want to listen to alternative opinions.
I haven't been keeping up with the scene as much, but it is nice to see you talk about non-melee drama related content, (even if this actually boils down to Hax not being accepted by the community). I look forward to seeing how your channel grows.
Answer: because the melee community is the most elitist of all the smash communities and they don't like competition being easier for others
As both a melee and ultimate player who loves melee I have to admit this. It's pretty toxic. It isn't just about controllers. It's about the elitist mindset of the community in general.
If I offend anyone I'm sorry btw! Just my perspective on why things never change
hey all understandable man, I also love both ult and melee and have the same thoughts as you.
@@Echo_SSBM I played melee for.10+ years. Switched to ultimate but still watch melee content. It's funny to me because although jerks exist, like 1/100 people I come across in ultimate is a jerk. Most all are so supportive and nice. In melee chats when I post my melee clips I get judged etc. It's something I noticed
@@Echo_SSBM it's the main reason I think hungrybox makes ultimate content too
@@OranguBANG I've only just started playing melee, about 2 years now, ult for about 3 now, yeah I've noticed the clip critiquing to be kinda harsh when it comes to melee, ultimate it's just how it is really nothing to harshly critique about, although I'm more or less focused on the idea that top players just can't adopt simple qol changes such as 1.03, even though they've been proven to help by player feedback, they'd rather pay for a $500 controller than a $10 memory card/download that does the heavy work for you but still keeps it fair, I just don't get that of top players, course it'd be validating hax's opinions about what needs to change and they'd rather be stuck up in the a** than to actually listen to people, even if the angle hax was trying to come at was kinda weird, he still wanted to get his point across. I mean not all top players are like this but I feel a good portion of them are like this, plus I hate how changes are only implemented by top players opinions instead of a community poll (elitism how you explained it on your first comment)
but this is just how I feel about the situation. my overall gripe I have with the melee community.
also sorry for long comment lol
@@Echo_SSBM because. They cry about the melee community dying but want to be a smug elitist where they're the only ones with the tools. They don't want any new people winning
I think calling the boxx pay to win is a bit unfair to it since its main purpose is to let players with arthritis and other conditions play competitively
@Saxon Eyles this goes for any input intensive game though. that's just part of the contract signed playing melee. boxx style controllers are just far more ergonomic and will greatly prevent these issues from happening
@Saxon Eyles the boxx was literally developed by an arthritic smash player with the intention of lessening hand pain while playing
@@MEEPdragon Okay, and now people without can master it very good
@Saxon Eyles thinking hand stretches are enough to prevent arthritis is one of the most mindnumbing takes ive heard in quite some time.
The funny thing is the Boxx type controllers' reason for existing is why I'm not going to let my kids play videos very much if at all.
I was given an Xbox to keep me out of my parent's hair and now my hands naturally curl like I'm holding a controller at all times, so that too.
I've met goomy and he's real a chill guy! That being said, you're absolutely correct in everything here.
Goomy is a super nice guy, he is trying his best for the community, I love goomy
Only thing I dont like about 1.03 is making shield dropping excessively easy. But the rest of the changes are fine. I think most people are just worried about it being sort of a slippery slope but Id be down
Try shield dropping on a boxx pal
Shield dropping is easy
@@T0moko2001 Why make it easier
@@IAm-zo1bo How do you make it easier?
@@T0moko2001 By making the angles bigger with 1.03
Man top player look so good when they play but custom controller isn't legit at all. It's because Melee has no money so they had to create ways to make money off of it. Should be banned and adopt 1.0.3 universal changes
wish I could talk to you personally about this subject. I feel like we could have a real good argument over ''why isn't 1.03 mainstream in top level already''
great vid, totally agree, I am truly shocked to see so many people resistant to this change given the lack of good reasoning as to why
Top players have already bought and spent money on controllers that work for them, which is why I don't think they advocate for the mod.
Any top player will agree that those controllers only last so long and then they would have to buy more. What you are pointing out is not the reason the mod isnt being advocated for. It's mostly about introducing even more software mods to the game and how it's a slippery slope and how Nintendo will react to the whole scene using mods possibly closing down events etc. (btw Im all for 1.03/ucf 2.0)
Bro every time I hear "1.03", "dash out of crouch" and "1.0 cardinal" spoken by a mellow voice I lose my f-ing mind.
d a s h. out. of. crouch
according to the team behind phobgcc, their aim was essentially to make something substantially less broken than the goomwave while being much more consistent and having significantly better longevity, and if that's actually how it pans out i can genuinely see controllers being in a good state in the near future
imo all we need now is to straight up ban the sus goomwave stuff, slightly nerf the boxes - if not solely so that uninformed people will stop devaluing the wins of good players who use them - and make them all equal (seriously the smashbox is literally capable of more cheating than the goomwave and the f1 lack of pivot tilt and sdi nerfs is stupid), then make 1.03's ucf updates and global z jump remapping standard and we'll all be happy :)
...like that'll ever happen in this splintered, deeply tribal community though lmfao
only the smashbox is truly broken. F1 errs on the side of it, and b0xx has a shit-ton of nerfs to keep with evenness on the playing field. everyone just likes to discredit it because it's cheaper than the boomwave bs they bought
obviously we should all be playing modded versions of the game at this point, but previously top players were just buying tons of controllers to find the best ones. Those controllers will always be legal at all events, and they will still have the advantage, so a modded controller being expensive isn't out of the question for the amount of purchases you'd have to go through anyway to buy them. (Not to mention old gamecube controllers go for like 70 dollars, and new ones simply have components)
i completely agree…..are top players scared of getting outplayed more often once it’s an even gaming experience for everyone? Seems like they cry about the boxx, and 1.03 would make that crying illogical…..either they don’t want to lose their icy grip or just don’t care about the community as a whole. I think allowing boxxes, arduinos, UCF, were all MUCH larger, committal jumps in the timeline. I cannot understand why anyone hesitates to polish an already amazing advancement that will even the playing field.
Washed top players with shit gatekeeping. And they justify notches cuz ilts the only way to make money
hax is the nikola tesla of this community
Honestly never thought I’d hear "Melee is pay to Win" lmao. This is unfortunate to find out though, hopefully 1.03 becomes the standard going forward
hax was on the creation team so that means it wont become standard because figureheads dont like that he said he didn't like someone and that they may be bad for the smash community
it isnt. ppl trying to frame their 1.03 cheerleading in marxist language are freakin bananas lmao
@@georgewbush152 tbf what he did was much more than calling someone unlikeable. I think there was a point somewhere layered in those hours but there was too much bs shrouding it
Thought this was titled groomwave, smash community really does make me think the worst of humans
Because Melee has a semi-elitist player base overall that fully believes they're not, and thus they're fine with a $200 skill check/barrier for entry. If you're not serious about a 20 year old party game for kids you won't spend $200 on a controller for it.
Simple.
man controllers aren't even that important, if you haven't been playing for 4 years a goomwave wont help, melee is full of people who think they are better because they play melee but at the end of the day every game has that, also i do agree that pro level equipment is expensive but its literally only needed if you are trying to make money off of melee. My 3 year old ultimate gcc works fine, i dont need all of the mods because really at the end of the day if you just practice you can do as good as these modded controllers, i can guarantee that if i had a goomwave it wouldn't make me top 100 overnight, i hate how people think melee is this precise ass game that need GOD level controllers, it doesn't, just play better
a lot of 1.03 fixes are too lenient, in mine and a lot of people's opinions. Like being able to hold directly to the side and get perfect wavedashes is kind of whack, and tilt stick is also whack. And being able to determine which c stick inputs are tilts and which ones are smashes is even MORE whack. Like, marth being able to do d tilts, up tilts, and f smashes all with the c stick is stupid. 1.03 itself will likely never be standard, though some of it's changes may make their way into UCF and Slippi
None of those changes are in 1.03 TE
Chiming in two months later, I'm curious about your thoughts on the phobgcc? It's still more expensive than stock controllers, but modders could retrofit a controller for
I thought highly of 1.03 until i learned that through testing, the changes to dash back out of crouch broke muscle memory (20 top players sampled) and messed up other inputs. We need to be careful when it comes to modding the game. But you're right, we also need to be careful with controller modifications too.
lmao just use the standard gamecube controller
At this point all we'd need is a snap back capacitor.
1.0 cardinals are not all that they're cracked up to be, I remember a top player complaining that they stop you from being able to hold your stick all the to the side to edge cancel from the angel platform on some stages, you would have to hold back a little with 1.0. also, the speed difference is pretty slight
As a goomwave owner I want 1.03 to be widely accepted
That new open source controller seems to be the hardware solution of the ages. DIY to win. transferable skills.
This channel needs to blow up!
yeah preferably with a pipe bomb
imagine paying for an experience everyone should just have easy access to
is that what buying a prostitute is like? :thinking:
@@weilzudope He probably means the average person doesn't have a hard time hooking up with someone. Not that it's being gatekept.
Now imagine that prostitutes were the ONLY way to get sex. That's the goomwave, baby.
Me just playing on my default gamecube
I thought Panda was gonna fix it guess well have to see about that now.
for real!! i know it got postponed but is there more news on it?
I agree 1.03 might be the solution but I don't like that you act as if it's absurd to be hesitant to go all in on 1.03,it includes fundamental game changes and the community should have a discussion about adding it first
you're right, but the problem is that the discussion isn't even happening to begin with
@@thefranChise1 sadly a lot of the scene is controlled by people who don't like change but in time it will happen just like ucf was eventually used
Still miss the pre-ucf PAL in europe melee golden era
brilliant video, anyone who wants to make melee pay to win should be BANNED
This video smells like cap...
In the amount of time it takes to become proficient at melee to the point where your controller gating your ability to improve you can probably afford to get a modded controller. It's not the problem you're trying to describe where just learning to play melee in your local scene you'll need to fork over tons of money for a good controller - your skill is going to be the problem not the controller (yes a perfect controller will help but all you need is a good enough controller). That isn't a reason against 1.03 but it's disingenuous to drive the story that you need to pay 100s of dollars just to start playing melee, which also isn't helpful for growth in the scene.
This video also doesn't seem as researched tbqh as your others, would have liked to hear you try to find some points of contention in 1.03 as there obviously are some if you look through some of the other comments.
Yes, most people who are serious about Melee will be able to cough up money the more invested they get into it, just like any hobby, but why exactly should this be the standard if there's an obvious potential solution to alleviate these issues staring the community right in the face that nobody seems to want to address, or even discuss? Especially considering modded controllers are never a one-and-done situation. Potentiometers have to be replaced, notches have to be maintained, etc. Even the maintenance on a goomwave is high. In an admittedly dying game, it's only going to drive off new people even more when the skill barrier to catch up to is so high in conjunction with the fact that the modern metagame largely involves tech that controller lottery plays a part in. Like just imagine for a second that you're a new player getting into the game, you're learning about how important shield drops are, and then find out that even with UCF, your controller is bad at them and now you have to play the controller lottery and buy new ones on ebay until you find one that feels good, or buy a custom controller. That, or just know that you're always at a perpetual disadvantage. It's demoralizing to be in such a situation. It's a bigger slap in the face when modded controllers still remain largely unregulated and allow for huge advantages like button remapping and virtual notches/perfect angles. I really don't understand why your justification for any of this would be "but skill plays a larger part than your controller", which is true, but you really are downplaying just how much of an advantage a good controller can give you. And even then, how much money you sink into the damn hardware should play a minimal role in the game regardless of what level of play you're at.
Yes, to act like Melee 1.03 is perfect in its current state as of right now or that makes every controller pefect would be silly, but none of the problems can be addressed if the community never opens up any discussion around it, or at the very addresses why 1.03 is not being trialed when premium controller manufacturers get more and more brazen with the features they add and still face hardly any objections from TOs.
Let's chek this 1.03
I love my GC controller even though it’s shit
PhobGC is a good alternative to use while the melee community still pussyfoots over implementing 1.03 for however long. The project is transparent and open source and if you have decent soldering skills you can make a controller superior to the goomwave for under $100
The short answer is because Hax$
Groomwave team support channel is basically twitter. Huge issue considering they are very brittle and will block you for any reason. Rienne asked if we should allow hax back into the community, I said yes, and she blocked me. Phob is the future. 1.03 needs to fix its many issues such as bricking controllers before its taken any seriously.
1.03 is not a stealth mod. You need to have no visual indicators whatsoever (even if it's hidden in the menus) that melee is being modded in order to not get tournaments shut down by Nintendo. So no big TOs will implement 1.03 in it's current state. & there is still some debate as to whether or not certain features like Z-Jump should be legal.
& Most players can get to the top ten in their state with the same GCC they have sitting in a box at their mom's house from when they were 8years old. Getting a new un-modded Gamecube OEM controller, that is "good", will still cost a chunk of change. You can get a Phob controller board for cheaper than JP white OEM controllers and it takes like 30 mins of soldering to get a controller on par with the best controllers out there. Controllers being seen as "pay to win" was an issue that M2K was comllaining about wayyyu before the goomwave, Phob, or the B0xx ever came out.
I'm all for implementing a better UCF, but there are somethings that UCF won't be able to offer (due to Nintendo being sue-happy cunts) that a modded controller will. That doesn't make it pay to win, it's pay to play. No different than needing to buy a CRT/monitor or a console/computer in order to play. The game was never "free to play" & good quality OEM Gamecube controllers are going to get more & more scarce. It's not unreasonable to imagine a future where non-worn out OEM controllers are more expensive than something like a goomwave.
funnily enough, hax just announced 1.03 stealth edition sooooo...
@@thefranChise1 really? Ayyy
Maybe because the Melee Elitists want the game to be Pay to Win so the same guys always win the same tournaments again and again?
Bring back old melee with oem only and no ucf. You don’t see these nerds complaining about random phantoms do they but they want an easier shield drop and ledgedash notches. Pathetic. Shit wouldn’t slide back then
honestly goated comment LMAO
I’m gonna win a supermajor with a madcatz controller whilst maining bowser
I'm not a melee player, but this is a problem with Ultimate as well.
I bought a modded Pro Controller. A basic software mod without notches marks the controller up to $160. With notches, spring cuts, or other physical mods, the price goes up anywhere for $10-40 for EACH subsequent mod. My Pro Controller costed me $400.
I understand that you have to upsell your stuff to make a profit, but that's still a lot for the average competitive player.
as someone that players proper fighting games, smash is so backwards that i'm baffled. 150 buck for a custom motherboard + 125 for controller mods to compete at the highest level because everyone optimized the game to the point of cheating.
no wonder they don't was this 1.03 think. i would be pushing back too if i was spending hundreds of dollars in costom controllers
you should make a video on phobgcc. open source and not gatekept by the most arrogant and annoying modders in the community like… the other one. i think that 1.03 will be great as well considering it will elevate currently unviable and inconsistent oems to a more even playing field, but i still believe that hardware mods should still have a place because there is only so much you can do with analog filtering and no matter what software mods your using pode and other gcc inconsistencies will still be present.
Exactly. Even with 1.03 there will always be a place for controller mods. 1.03 just levels the playing field
The best solution for everyone who enjoys being able to compete in a game without a significant financial barrier to entry -- and it's not one most are gonna wanna hear, but it needs to be said -- is to just ban all non-standard controllers, and all expensive or skilled hardware mods. Period. That's it. You're not gonna solve this dilemma otherwise. Either the gap between Melee and its players becomes wider and wider, or you close said gap, now and forever. As much as I don't particularily "like" this solution either, it's honestly a perfect one for an old game like Melee whose game mechanics exist completely within its own unique ecosystem. There's really no other game like Smash, except for its own clones.
While a more accessible and affordable controller would be great. I feel like a lot of this stuff only matters if you are trying to reach top 100 or something.
Plus melee is far from the only expensive hobby.
yeah fr, melee dont need goomwaves unless you goated, even then you really can deadass just grind out the techs and play better
no it matters for pretty much everyone else, because the top 100 players already have expensive controllers.
they're gatekeeping it because they already paid for an expensive controller and want an advantage over other that they paid for
The game is 21 years old, people are really paying that much money for a control to a game they arent gonna go pro or win money in?
$300 isn't a crazy amount for a game u love so much that you've been playing it since 01. it aint cheap but its not crazy either
@@damianwinston6282 or you could just get 1.03 for a lot cheaper.. what.
not to mention, controllers will eventually get worse overtime bc of moving parts. 1.03 skips over that.
@@Brain-washed2 yes and no. if your controller develops a lot of degradation, you're not gonna get saved for whiff directional inputs. it helps, but it's not the full answer
@@KayC2SLO i think you need to read what you type before you hit send. but how is 1.03 or something like it not an ideal answer to any potential controller issues?
@@Brain-washed2 because that's exactly what it's not. when stickboxes wear out and supply wears thin, it's pretty much over, so i think you need to see the bigger picture here
edit: i don't mean it's not an ideal answer, just that, it's the step in the right direction to one, and is currently the best bet towards an even playing field
1.03 doesn't skip over it, hence "yes, and no", inherent issues are still relevant
idk why nobody is talking about 1.03 it's fantastic and accessible to everyone, goomwaves are mad expensive, hardly anyone can get one and they're constantly breaking anyway and were allowed without any vetting.
Because I've spent hundreds of dollars on this controller to stay ahead of the competition.
On an unrelated sidenote, id love to see you talk about open-source controllers, such as what the PhobGCC and Crane's Lab discords have.
I mean like valorant comp to buy 144hz monitors and the such instead of playing on a laptop, it makes sense, pro players in there respective games r gonna play spend big money
"Why do we have to gatekeep functioning controllers behind a paywall?" - I have a few guesses as to why people in high places might want to do that lol. Money is one of them.
Please make 1.03 happen guys come on
Hax was a fan of unmodded Melee in the past. The logical thing to do to spite him is to adopt 1.03.
Good video! ❤️🔥
Ngl I don't think many tourneys are gonna be adding it
Doesn't even seem like they even wanted to add UCF just cause of Nintendo being shitheads
I disagree strongly with the idea that Melee is P2W, or at least that you need to spend $200 just to compete. The vast majority of the playerbase aren't vying for majors, nor are they any better than pre-UCF top 100 players. Think about it, could you beat anyone on the 2016 Top 100? They were all playing without controller mods and are still better than most people today. "Oh but they had to buy dozens of controllers to get a perfect one" yeah only the top 10 or so actually did that. The idea that 0-2ers need to worry about perfect ledgedashes and boxx-level SDI instead of good fundamentals and neutral is frankly ridiculous and harmful to player development.
It still is p2w for us at the mid to higher levels of play, and in Europe it is not so easy to get a phob or other cheater controllers.
The only reason for 1.3 not being implemented is the extra stuff that can be argued should not be legal. Imo z jump.
125 dollars to sand down some notches lmfao these broke college students were trynna SCAM SCAM LMAOO
1.03 is the future
Melee is the most gatekept game I've every tried to get into.
Yeah no wonder Nintendo looks down on the competitive smash community.
Please not let melee turn into ultimate as a pay to win game
I see no issues with 1.03 other than Nintendo itself, but UCF poses the same problem so why not continue adopting innovations
I play with a DualShock 4 and shit on 90% of people on unranked. Played for two years or so.Still use the same 2 controllers. No wear and tear problems gcc is synonymous for. And if the sticks get too loose and drift becomes a problem you can easily alter the dead zone. I’ve played melee for 2 years but was a fan of competitive melee for at least 7 or 8 years. I always thought that it being an old GameCube game that needed old and discontinued consoles controllers held it back from becoming a “legitimate “ esport. Doubly so when I figured out how finicky gccs are. A 400 dollar controller is good for 3-6 months? Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense. Once slippi arrived I was happy a barrier was broken and more people started playing melee. The only barrier that’s left is the controller issues. My ideal melee dreamworld is one where anyone can play on any controller akin to other competitive fighting games. Then it truly would be the closet thing to a sport that you could ask for in a video game
I'm playing ultimate with a Dualsense and man does it feels good.
I wanna say it's more than likely because we still want to stay in Nintendo's good graces. If they catch us doing mods that will literally fix the game, they'll shut us down. UCF is more on lower end of the spectrum as most major tournaments only run the vanilla game.
I guarantee that if Nintendo just left their 20yr game alone, the entire community would be all for it.
so it seems that your issue is not with the Goomwave, it's with the community not adapting 1.03.
#HaxWasRight
i have been trying to buy my first modded controller for three years and i accept that i might not ever have that controller. period, no happy ending, welcome to melee.
This is pure speculation. This is NOT the truth more or less a theory. What if goom is paying off TO's to not use v 1.03 so he can make more money off the goomwave? That would be insane.
I wonder if the discussion will pivot to people being against the Panda controller when it release.
whats the status quo with this now?
It's because hax's name is on the fix.
too many people replying to the same comment so im just start a new one. if goomwave is 150 or 300 that isnt a big deal. they stopped making gamecube what year? 07? 08? 09? getting a controller thats still good enough after all this time will cost $$
Let me put it this way:
A modded controller will cost around 4 times as much as a regular one. 1.03 gives your regular controller the power of a modded one for free, yet almost nobody advocates for 1.03.
That’s what I mean by gatekeeping
I’m sorry, this feels stupid and a bit like gatekeeping @Jason Jones
How’s the community suppose to grow if it can’t even give the tools to potential new players, at an affordable rate?
Melee already has a low return on investment issue for anyone not in the top 50, anything we can do to make it easier for casuals and the future veterans of the game to get into it now, should be top priority.
We love Melee despite it being broken. We should be willing to fix some of it’s flaws and make it more competitively entertaining to watch and more accessible to play at higher levels.
This whole video is really disingenuous. You talk about notched controllers like they're only a thing with goomwaves/modded GCC. You say that you can buy a standard for $20, which is true. But before UCF and goomwaves and shit, when OEM controllers were the only option controller prices were higher than the goomwave. I personally bought a controller for $200 that was a recolored OEM controller because it had good dashback and I could shield drop with it. You either shelled out high money for the few good controllers that the top ~30 players didn't find and buy out yet, or you spent $20 to enter the controller lottery. 1.0 cardinals are not a bug or something to be "fixed" they are the maximum value for the outter points on the gates that to my knowledge no stock controller has been known to hit. It only came into discussion because b0xx style controllers "could" hit it, and whether or not they should be able to. The whole reason people talk about legalising 1.0 cardinals is to have an excuse to give it to b0xx style controllers. And there's a lot of debate over if the value should just be banned outright since it's not naturally occuring and can have impacts on the meta if allowed to become standard with modded/digital controllers. Also, while I'm not exactly an expert on this I'm pretty sure vertical throws are a coding decision not a controller issue. You also imply that 1.03 won't ever undergo any revisions and thus won't have different versions of itself circulating like how we have multiple versions of ucf floating around at locals, and regionals. And on top of all of this your entire point is moot. You end by saying no one is endorsing it, then ask why we paywall it. That's not what's happening, people are talking about it. There are some things added that not everyone agrees with, and there's concerns over the implementation of other changes. There is a discussion, things are in the works, these things take time. It took UCF a while to catch on.
it would honestly help if the people defending 1.03 and hax didnt use titles like "GOOMWAVES ARE TERRIBLE." its aggressive and only makes the thing you are defending look worse, as a hax / 1.03 supporter i HIGHLY recommend you chill on the clickbaity titles considering you are the main person ive seen in my recommendations defending hax. otherewise, hard agree. goomwaves and the custom controller shit (especially z jumping) has made me question the legitimacy of melee as an e-sport, and having a more even playing field would help dig it out of the hole its in because of this. 1.03 also has some other questionable changes from what i can gather that do NOT help the game, so its not necessarily an upgrade as much as it is a sidegrade to standard UCF patched melee. the best middleground for this would be a patch that isnt 1.03 that just has the controller fixes called "UCF+" or something. screaming into the void but whatever.
1.03 has toggles on all of its features, doesn't it?
@@sptflcrw8583 you have toggles but then you get to a point of moderating setups and making sure all these random toggles are set properly and not changed at a local easy at a larger event it gets way harder
@@theshadymage8366 I mean, I don't see how that's any different from vanilla melee. We moderate that items are turned off, stock count, timer, legal stages, and plenty of other stuff. I don't see how some additional quality of life toggles are any different. At worst, Hax could always just implement a "tournament standard" ruleset toggle which toggles them all to tournament rules.
@@sptflcrw8583 it’s harder to see differences in the toggle than a non legal stage or items stock count timer etc so that side is inherently harder to moderate than vanilla melee
@@theshadymage8366 I don't see how it's any harder to moderate something like how many times someone grabbed the ledge, or whether players are striking stages properly, than it is to just make sure that a "master toggle" is turned on.
i've loved most all of your other videos, but what is the problem *exactly?* the controllers, or 1.03? you didn't talk about 1.03 much. pro arcade sticks can cost more than goomwave or b0xx. arcade style rhythm game controllers and racing sim controllers are ungodly expensive. there are professional products for professional players. why are they expensive? you're paying people properly for their labor
The problem is lack of 1.03. Obvious I’m not against modding your controller, just want a free way to level the playing field.
An arcade stick isn't necessary to play at the top level. Punk, the best SFV player in the West (and you could make the argument for the world) plays on just a PS4 pad. People just use arcade sticks because of preference, they have no advantages over a standard pad
1.03 will never be used unless we want Nintendo to C&D with every tourney using it. Nintendo does not care about controller modding however.
UCF is already a software mod to the game though
It’s optional but it’s a mandate in top level play
Because then how till Goomers trash all the new players if they don't have a 500 dollar headstart?
Greg turbo joke was nice
The melee scene has become a bunch of tribal GenZ Tiktokers. The whole controversy boils down to a mob of children who hate Hax for mentioning dictators and so he must be cancelled. It's obvious that 1.03 is an improvement over UCF. You're wasting your time trying to convince a mob who doesn't care about the merits of the mod, only that they aren't also perceived as a bad guy for associating themselves with Hax.
I just don't want the community to divide and have multiple standards competing against each other. I think people need to just play instead of looking at every problem
speaking TRUTH
Bro I love 1.03 and i really want it so bad. Calling the game pay to win? Idk. My controller is fucked, I got not rubber anymore, no notches and most of the time the controller of the person im playing against isn't a factor in my head most of the time.
I dont think its thats pay to win and cut and dry.
When playing against somebody I don't think that its the first thing that is a factor all of the time but that does not mean it's still not there. because of the rising cost of game cube controllers and more modded controllers becoming relevant in the meta it will become hard to get into the game but would I call that pay to win no I think its more pay to improve to get better at the game to improve your tec you need to pay money.
Just because you think cyclists on their 9kg carbon bikes aren't beating you in a race because of their bikes doesn't make your 20kg city bike any less of a disadvantage in a race.
I understand that this is unrelated, but do you know what is the current status of the lawsuit between ZeRo and Jisu?
You should probably ask technicals about that
@@astolfostrikesback4073 He's being radio silent on that probably because he's being called as a witness.
@@supersonicstyleatsonicspeed oh shit that might be the case, well, we just have to wait
@@astolfostrikesback4073 DAMMIT! I am so impatient when it comes to this. I understand we just have to wait, but still. I wish there was more information we could know about.
@@supersonicstyleatsonicspeed There are channels called, "Crows of Judgement" and, "Toy Bounty Hunters" specifically the second channel I named who are covering the lawsuit.
I'm still vouching for phob, but 1.03 + phob is butter.
phobs could have no features other than the magnetic sticks, and I'd still say they're worth it. Potentiometers suck.
You're completely ignoring the main reason it hasn't been taken seriously. Hax, the main champion of 1.03, made a frightening attack on a community member. You can't just ignore that. There's also the issue of there not being any central Melee authority.
a "frightening" attack, talking a bunch of rambling and nonsense lmao, you don't what is real frightening bud