Definitely a ballzy move (he actually came to my local last month(hes a great guy beat him in a set gave really good tips.) overall definitely a highlight of my life
8:44 I think HBox has declined in results not only because top players have improved the Puff MU in recent years, but also because HBox doesn't practice or plays Melee as often as players like Cody, Mang0, or Zain. He is now a content creator and focuses more on Ultimate. I hope one day he becomes Number 1 again, but I've lost hope on that.
@@mlgmcdonaldsland7063 I respect your opinion, but for me, Puff is the most interesting Melee character, without HBox, Melee is just 20XX with a spoonful of Marth.
Honestly don't really agree the whole "flaco dominates every level except the very top" statement. I agree that he is dominant at low levels if you play like a degen but once you reach a mid-level you should know at least basic counterplay to every character, not just falco. Both sides need to stop complaining about characters being easier than others and lame play styles and instead just accept that every viable character is hard to win with whether it be a floaty or fastfaller and just play the game.
there's some funny stuff that happened in Tekken because some characters just didn't see play, where both a Gigas main and Bear main, respectively, took matches they really shouldn't have (the Bear main taking a super major), because nobody knew the matchup, Spacies go through the opposite where people know what they will do and go for better since they're seen a TON
@@QuantemDeconstructor It's not really fair to say "take matches they shouldn't have", Rangchu is unbelievably talented and regularly makes top 8 at majors, he's literally in top 8 of EVO right now
@@EllaEllaAudios true, he's gotten there now but I can't remember seeing him in top 8s before that, even with that being said it's like some fairly unknown player creeping into SFIV and taking Evo with Dan (another usable but still weak joke character), it's something that by all accounts probably shouldn't happen, but I do have a lot of respect for Rangchu, I just feel the lack of knowledge around fighting Bears in tourney helped him a lot
@@QuantemDeconstructor To be fair the difference between top and low tiers in SFIV was much bigger than it is in Tekken 7, but I get what you mean. I think he's more than proven himself by now no matter what though
I agree with a lot of these points, but not all of them.. I think there is not enough encouragement, now that slippi is available, to really learn every aspect of the game (character matchups and neutral and tech skill) because you don’t need to be as good to have fun. You don’t need to be super on the sticks to get a few net play wins and that changes a lot. It means for this low/mid level play there’s so much more accessibility which leads to more players and then more viewers ship for the sport. Net play falcos may not be very fun to play with all the time, but to require that they “learn neutral” is pretty reductionist and generally impossible to quantify in such a fluid and challenging game.
I think he means that they need to "learn neutral" to move up in placing/player skill. To move from a mid level player to a high level player. Which isn't a statement of how the game should be, just a statement on how the game is. I also don't think people care if mid level falco's don't know neutral, they just don't like how they call other characters lame as a result of it.
I switched from falcon to falco because i love the feeling of his movement and combos. Id like to learn fox but the 3 frame jump squat is just too damn fast for me to hit consistently.
If you want to learn, a quick tip - what I do is I actually don't press the button down. I quickly flick down the edge of the button with the top part of my thumb. Hope that helps! Spacies are fun.
As someone who has been in the smash community for a good while, but never really played melee until a few months ago, I think that the rise of more flashier players and the rise of people playing spacies is probably giving people Vietnam flashbacks to when the 20xx movement was at its peak. In my opinion, that's kinda sad because before covid, we were seeing a resurgence of people who play more niche characters(like Franz with doc) rise up in the scene and in the top 100. I just think people have their panties in a knot and need to just shut up and work on their own game
Holy shit, I haven't watched one of your videos since your "How To" series. The quality and topics of your videos have improved so much and I'm so happy to you become one of the best melee youtube channels! I'll definitely try and visit your stream.
started with falco and am seeing a lot of improvement by also playing both fox and dr mario. forces u to switch up ur playstyle and stop relying on one game plan
Anecdotally speaking, when I made my decision of which character to main 5-ish years ago I was dead-set on going with a rushdown character which is to say either one of the spacies or falcon. That same preference of mine extends to spectating and parasocial admiration of their respective pro players as well but before I delve too far into grasping at straws I wanna point out that what ultimately caused me to pick falco was honestly his shorthop which ties into the point you made about accessbility. Having grown up on latter smash installments with their extremely lenient shorthop windows has instilled a ton of muscle memory in me that fox and especially falcon just do not abide by whatsoever leading to some real goober gameplay. Now I said this was an anecdote but by no means do I believe this is simply a drop in the ocean, I would imagine a good chunk if not most of melee's new player influx is used to the more generous handle on something as crucial and frankly second nature as shorthopping that the newer iterations grant. Picking up melee already entails grappling with a deluge of oddities more modern games would never have you encounter so raising the demands on something that has ingrained itself as trivial just seems unappealing. That's precisely why I have nothing but respect for people who opt for fox or falcon and commit to it, the barrier of entry is sky high. Especially with falcon being unwieldy elsewhere too. To be honest I felt a little pigeonholed into choosing falco but it never bothered me because so far it has coincided with him being the character I most enjoy.
I dont keep up with Melee as much as I used to but man thats sad to hear Sheik is next on the hate train honestly I wish people would try to have a more open mind on the game like this, Ive honestly warmed up to every character lately (even puff) and it only makes watching the game that more enjoyale ...well except falcon lol but yea every character has its hype moments
I think the Shiek hate train is currently just speculation, though it is possible. Rn Jmook is really hype and has a lot of fans, I would be surprised to see them turn on him anytime soon.
Lmfao it's funny that I know exactly who wrote that post at 10:34. "IAmArakune" aka the kid from the Disco Heat video "League of Children: Like Literally"
Yeah... except you left out the part of how the community has been hating on netplay Falcos for the duration of the Slippi era. The community went from hating on Hbox, to netplay Falcos, to Marth, and now Sheik. The problem isn't netplay Falcos, its just salty melee players in general. This take sounds like a player who's salty about losing to Falco. If you're annoyed by netplay Falcos, just play neutral and/or gimp them at 10%. Its not that hard. Lol
As a Melee Samus my matchups are rather iffy. I aint ashamed of who I main. I gotta work for my neutral and my space all the time. I see these Netplay people all the time and I find it insane how people will rage at something so simple. Thanks for this vid. Edit: would like to see more of this because stuff like this is super interesting.
I am a dogshit falco, but I was always more frustrated with my crappy performance rather than other players. I've tried picking up other characters and playing more patiently.
I think the majority of people are seriously delusional. They pick a spacie and think just because that alone they’re clear from playing lame. When half the time they’re literally the lamest players on slippi, running away, spamming one option. Then they’ll turn around and say puff or marth or sheik is lame because all they does is fair/bair.. Like what…??? All you’re doing is laser, down air shine. All game. You’ll stand their and up tilt like 5x in a row then get upset when a marth just “randomly f smashes” Im tired of lame spacies not admitting that they’re lame. playing like little weenies but want to be treated like mang0.
Most of the players you're describing are scrubs, I main Fox and my only real issues with with wobbling and excessive planking as Puff, and the rule changes addressed both of those. I have fun playing vs Marth, Sheik, Puff, Peach, ICs, Luigi, Falco, and even characters I have trouble vs like Samus and Falcon lol.. Honestly I'd rather play vs Marth or Falco than Fox ditto. Edit: ah yeah but scrubs can still be practice occasionally. Edit 2 Oh forgot to mention I have a lot of fun combo matchu, err, I mean DK. You 0-death me I 0-death you, and also while my Marth is very much not something I would use in tournament, one of my favorite Marth matchups is Sheik lmao
Sorry to hate, but this comes off as a really one dimensional take on popular opinions and discourse regarding what's cool vs. requires skill. My belief is that what makes this game so exciting is its seemingly infinite neutral game, paired with a deep punish game, and fluid movement: A Plethora of Options. So one problem faced at a low level is when neither player has a concept of how to play neutral or counter-play. A good example that doesn't involve peach Or Falco is this video I got recommended a few months back titled something like "average netplay experience". It was a Falcon paired against a Marth, and they played neutral for a solid minute without landing any notable combos. Every time the falcon got stage control, he'd just retreat back to centerstage because the player didn't know what to do against Marth at the ledge. Similarly, all the Marth knew to do was maybe throw out a forward air or smash attack. The game ended with Marth quitting out about a minute in. Falcon was lame because he couldn't land any substantial combo. Marth was lame because his neutral options were mostly noncommittal and unrewarding. Meanwhile, what makes a lame game at the high level is when players opt for extremely primitive punishes and neutral options when there are "better" ways to approach the problems. When a top 50 peach down smashes 100 times on a platform, that can be off-putting. When a Falco abuses a bad matchup and spams laser at a low tier for a 6 minute game, that is going to be lame as shiez Always. End of the day, if you want to see game played in an interesting way, you need to do it yourself, or let another top player shine off the top.
I play puff: Game 1: v Falco, they win taunting every stock. Game 2: I win (after homie stocking) they still taunt every stock. Game 3: immediately quit after getting tested once. This isn't a story, just the most common occurrence against Falco players
I always taunt first stock of first game as a hello but when I get "punished" for it I usually quit out to not deal with these kinds of people I just want to have fun. Falco btw
Yea this confused me. Also telling how Falco can't get beyond laser laser dair, but also been carried through low and mid level by getting free laser openings. Falcos want to be fancy but also play the most lame way to reach mid level? Idk
@@clipCommander101 hey thanks for the stats! Yeah I agree, with a game that has 11 viable characters, having THAT many be just 1? honestly pretty sadge
I think a lot of people understand that when they lose they are worse then their opponents. You arnt the only spacy without protagonist syndrome lolol!!!!!I think you are perpetuating shitty mindsets about why we should hate specific characters. These are all just huge sweeping statements about people that play specific characters. LLods argument is so broad.....I agree with some of the points you made but i think this is deeper than just a spacie problem. I can see how maybe its more common with spacies but i think this is a general mindset problem with a lot of people in the community. People convince themselves they lose for all sorts of reasons. People struggle accepting how good they are and struggle to see why they might be losing or what they need to work on. Even top players make excuses. you actually end up arguing at one point that a falco complaining that "floaties are easy and require no skill" is hypocritical BECAUSE REALLY falco is easy to pick up and play.... "when you think about it falco players are like the spoiled kids who were always praised while floaties are the kids who had to work and claw for everything they had, only for nobody to care in the end because again...they wernt some agro flashy space animal" ^ huh??? "instead you throw your blind rage onto floaties who already have to work twice as hard as you do just to get an opening in nuetral." where are u pulling these stats from?! lol am i tripping or is this video just adding to the problem..
I’m a falco player but I really want to learn and I understand that i need to learn to beat falco so I can recognize my own characters flaws and therefore improve as a player in general by covering my character’s weaknesses. Does that make sense? Sorry if I sound confusing haha
as a mid level player, falco is harder to deal with than a lot of other characters i play against. i learned the matchup and i usually win, but he is much more annoying than the majority of the cast. especially because i play ganon. 💀
im a mr g&w main and i get fucked by netplay falcos. I cant powershield cause my shield is some seriuos bs and my down b (a bucket that can suck up projectiles and when it absorbed 3 projectiles it can send out a wave of water) is VERY lagy. If i absorb it i cant move for like 2 seconds and the falco can go in for a punish. BUT if i miss im also fucked cause i STILL CANT MOVE and the falco can punish. or they quit out cause im playing a low tier. The biggest range mr g&w has is the pan (which is laggy, does little damage, and again, LAGE) and maaaayyyybbbeeee bair but im not that suuuurrreee. bair and fair have the same range, but if you hit a fair high percent = maybe kills low percent = ok damage but ass knockback bair high percent = high hitstun and you can go in with a fair to prolly kill them low percent = you can bair them over and over again if they dont di correctly and if the damage is good fair(good) hammer(risky but great outcome if higher than 5) or nair(prolly best option). i have a entire discord server around mr g&w so i have like 2 years of my live into that (im 15 lolololololooll). but if you fight a netplay falco, camp them and ruin their day please do that, thank you :]
Falco has the exact same moveset as fox but has a different kill chart or route then fox not much else is different except for Falco drops like a rock and jumps way higher than fox
Bro I been peeped this. Niggas pull up w Falco and just tech out, then get shitty when you smack them on some simple shit 😂😂😂. Idk how they don't see the flaw in their game plan
Hey, I don't want to make waves in the scene or anything, but maybe we should stop pretending that Fox and Falco are the epitome of "sick" when Fox has a lame as fuck grab confirm that he has the movement and speed to generally always be able to fish for and Falco has one of the most potent and deadly combo/edgeguarding moves in the entire game. 🤡
I think Slippi has lead to a rise in character hate and toxicity, because we aren’t looking our opponent in the eye, shaking his hand and seeing him as a real person. It’s so much easier to get mad when it’s just a name on a screen. Personally I never mald when I’m playing melee IRL, but I’d be lying if I said I haven’t gotten pissed off playing slippi. And it’s not a good feeling, getting mad at your favorite game.
I've been a general member of the smash community kinda flowing between both games in the background and if I'm being honestly, what ultimately stops me from playing any smash games outside of just drunk FFA in hyrule fight club at 2am with friends is the amount of complaining the competitive scene has, I know it's not everyone and this video is proof of that even further, but it's just enough to destroy my interest and I wish it could change because I genuinely love smash but it's exhausting to engage with the community at times, and that just makes it exhausting to play the game
Every character is both lame and based, easy and hard, depending on whats being done by said player of the character. Some people need to understand that every character in this game has their own bullshit and thats what makes it fair, it’s fine it dislike a character or match up, everyone feels some way about something. But yeah spacies calling every floaty lame and killing the game is just as bad as others saying every falco is a netplay falco shitter because they aren’t a top 20 player.
Honestly I see this from every player on netplay. They’re insanely technically skilled, but will lose to a competent Zelda or Kirby because they can’t figure out how to adapt to new stimuli. There’s a difference between tech skill and competitive/game skill and a lot of people have the former but none of the latter
As a Dr. Mario main the only rage quits I see are from Fox/Falco players. Most just sweat so hard to get bodied by a dude who just plays Melee casually and doesn’t know most techs
@@anuraagkumar978 yeah usually most netplay Falcos have great tech skill but suffer in the more mental parts of the game like neutral and reading your opponent. Thanks btw
From what you have said in the video it sounds like that you just plainly don’t like falco I can understand that everyone has their own opinion but we all have to deal with him and every other character in the game. You said you switched from ice’s to fox if your saying that falco takes no skill at the lowest level your also saying that fox doesn’t even need a brain cell to play at the lowest level as falco is essentially a worse fox which makes you sound kinda hypocritical saying falco is so easy to play. I enjoyed the video like always but I don’t think netplay falco is anything near a plague if anything the character that has protagonist syndrome is fox. I watch a lot small fox mains on twitch and from what I see they have more protagonists syndrome then any other character. But this rant at the end of the day your opinion no matter how much you forced it and it was a good video.
1:26 When i think Melee i think M2K to be fair. Also 5:15 is hillarious! There is an argument for Armada saving Melee with his Peach! a Low tier character dominating that worked its way up the ranks thank to Armada. Same for Axe, Watching Mango play Falco and Fox over and over is beyond boring, sadly Mangos inflated personality doesn't help the hatred for him, there is no denying he is in the top 3 Greatest players of all time.. Shame about the personality. BUT AXE! His IS MELEE! AXE IS EVERYTHING MELEE STANDS FOR! Grit Determination and suffering, Axe is skilled enough to have picked fox up and won majors, but he didn't he stuck it out, Axe's Journey is the greatest journey in melee fact! I just hope Amsa can do it with Yoshi. The thing keeping melee alive is the Gods Sadly leffen Zain and Low tier characters. Fox is uber boring. Look at Leffen for example, you may hate him, but the guy literally learnt Sheik to counter 1 player!!!! thats what keeps Melee alive, For example Armada Taking Young Link to counter Hbox THAT IS WHAT KEEP MELEE ALIVE not spacies lol. Kids thing Mango is this uber cool hip Hobo and falco is super flashy so i must play falco! when those kids age and get a personality of their own, they will get on Axe and Amsa and Armadas level. And Hbox!
I don't agree that Falco's only have two choises too A. relearn Falco and B. complain I think there is C. Switch to Fox which Toph talks about a lot. His theory is that a lot of netplay Falco's eventually switch to netplay Fox's because if you have techskill the Fox neutral is somewhat easier to understand because it doesn't revolve around Falco laser.
Agreed! Falco without lasers is like Puff without back air. Or maybe better yet like Samus without up-b out of shield. Imagine trying to handle shield pressure without it.
@@iMacxXuserXx485 lol you see the difference between those moves right? Samus up b? If they spam that shit they’re dead. I have nothing against Falco, but his move set is really good, fast, and pretty damn safe.
I beat Westballz
Ayo let's goo!
Good job man :D
Me too in 2019.
Definitely a ballzy move (he actually came to my local last month(hes a great guy beat him in a set gave really good tips.) overall definitely a highlight of my life
8:44
I think HBox has declined in results not only because top players have improved the Puff MU in recent years, but also because HBox doesn't practice or plays Melee as often as players like Cody, Mang0, or Zain. He is now a content creator and focuses more on Ultimate.
I hope one day he becomes Number 1 again, but I've lost hope on that.
He rly doesn’t need to give a shit when he’s making so much money on ultimate while being an underdog
Thank God for that. Puff is such a boring character.
@@mlgmcdonaldsland7063 I respect your opinion, but for me, Puff is the most interesting Melee character, without HBox, Melee is just 20XX with a spoonful of Marth.
@@mlgmcdonaldsland7063 Lol
@@MrKing_MC
Marth, Captain Falcon, Falco, Fox, maybe sheik. Fine rotation. Not to mention other characters that are still played.
I've played Sheik since 2013, Sheik hate is nothing new. It's been there the whole time.
Yes, because the fair and needles are easy to pull off and busted.
Honestly don't really agree the whole "flaco dominates every level except the very top" statement. I agree that he is dominant at low levels if you play like a degen but once you reach a mid-level you should know at least basic counterplay to every character, not just falco. Both sides need to stop complaining about characters being easier than others and lame play styles and instead just accept that every viable character is hard to win with whether it be a floaty or fastfaller and just play the game.
there's some funny stuff that happened in Tekken because some characters just didn't see play, where both a Gigas main and Bear main, respectively, took matches they really shouldn't have (the Bear main taking a super major), because nobody knew the matchup, Spacies go through the opposite where people know what they will do and go for better since they're seen a TON
@@QuantemDeconstructor It's not really fair to say "take matches they shouldn't have", Rangchu is unbelievably talented and regularly makes top 8 at majors, he's literally in top 8 of EVO right now
@@EllaEllaAudios true, he's gotten there now but I can't remember seeing him in top 8s before that, even with that being said it's like some fairly unknown player creeping into SFIV and taking Evo with Dan (another usable but still weak joke character), it's something that by all accounts probably shouldn't happen, but I do have a lot of respect for Rangchu, I just feel the lack of knowledge around fighting Bears in tourney helped him a lot
@@QuantemDeconstructor To be fair the difference between top and low tiers in SFIV was much bigger than it is in Tekken 7, but I get what you mean. I think he's more than proven himself by now no matter what though
I agree with a lot of these points, but not all of them.. I think there is not enough encouragement, now that slippi is available, to really learn every aspect of the game (character matchups and neutral and tech skill) because you don’t need to be as good to have fun. You don’t need to be super on the sticks to get a few net play wins and that changes a lot. It means for this low/mid level play there’s so much more accessibility which leads to more players and then more viewers ship for the sport. Net play falcos may not be very fun to play with all the time, but to require that they “learn neutral” is pretty reductionist and generally impossible to quantify in such a fluid and challenging game.
I think he means that they need to "learn neutral" to move up in placing/player skill. To move from a mid level player to a high level player. Which isn't a statement of how the game should be, just a statement on how the game is. I also don't think people care if mid level falco's don't know neutral, they just don't like how they call other characters lame as a result of it.
I switched from falcon to falco because i love the feeling of his movement and combos. Id like to learn fox but the 3 frame jump squat is just too damn fast for me to hit consistently.
If you want to learn, a quick tip - what I do is I actually don't press the button down. I quickly flick down the edge of the button with the top part of my thumb. Hope that helps! Spacies are fun.
@@172prv 2 months later and fox is my main now lol
Loolllll@@clipCommander101
As a ness main, this virus affects me a ton
I disagree with this video.
I main Bowser therefore I'm carried
I Main Doc. So I'm carried
I main Roy. The 3 of us are carried
honestly everytime i get matched with a netplay falco on slippi i just be thinkin "christmas"
As someone who has been in the smash community for a good while, but never really played melee until a few months ago, I think that the rise of more flashier players and the rise of people playing spacies is probably giving people Vietnam flashbacks to when the 20xx movement was at its peak. In my opinion, that's kinda sad because before covid, we were seeing a resurgence of people who play more niche characters(like Franz with doc) rise up in the scene and in the top 100. I just think people have their panties in a knot and need to just shut up and work on their own game
Would love to see more content like this, even for those who don't agree with you, this is the kind of discussion I prefer to consume.
Holy shit, I haven't watched one of your videos since your "How To" series. The quality and topics of your videos have improved so much and I'm so happy to you become one of the best melee youtube channels! I'll definitely try and visit your stream.
started with falco and am seeing a lot of improvement by also playing both fox and dr mario. forces u to switch up ur playstyle and stop relying on one game plan
Anecdotally speaking, when I made my decision of which character to main 5-ish years ago I was dead-set on going with a rushdown character which is to say either one of the spacies or falcon. That same preference of mine extends to spectating and parasocial admiration of their respective pro players as well but before I delve too far into grasping at straws I wanna point out that what ultimately caused me to pick falco was honestly his shorthop which ties into the point you made about accessbility. Having grown up on latter smash installments with their extremely lenient shorthop windows has instilled a ton of muscle memory in me that fox and especially falcon just do not abide by whatsoever leading to some real goober gameplay.
Now I said this was an anecdote but by no means do I believe this is simply a drop in the ocean, I would imagine a good chunk if not most of melee's new player influx is used to the more generous handle on something as crucial and frankly second nature as shorthopping that the newer iterations grant.
Picking up melee already entails grappling with a deluge of oddities more modern games would never have you encounter so raising the demands on something that has ingrained itself as trivial just seems unappealing. That's precisely why I have nothing but respect for people who opt for fox or falcon and commit to it, the barrier of entry is sky high.
Especially with falcon being unwieldy elsewhere too.
To be honest I felt a little pigeonholed into choosing falco but it never bothered me because so far it has coincided with him being the character I most enjoy.
I dont keep up with Melee as much as I used to but man thats sad to hear Sheik is next on the hate train
honestly I wish people would try to have a more open mind on the game like this, Ive honestly warmed up to every character lately (even puff) and it only makes watching the game that more enjoyale
...well except falcon lol but yea every character has its hype moments
I think the Shiek hate train is currently just speculation, though it is possible. Rn Jmook is really hype and has a lot of fans, I would be surprised to see them turn on him anytime soon.
Lmfao it's funny that I know exactly who wrote that post at 10:34.
"IAmArakune" aka the kid from the Disco Heat video "League of Children: Like Literally"
Yeah... except you left out the part of how the community has been hating on netplay Falcos for the duration of the Slippi era. The community went from hating on Hbox, to netplay Falcos, to Marth, and now Sheik. The problem isn't netplay Falcos, its just salty melee players in general. This take sounds like a player who's salty about losing to Falco.
If you're annoyed by netplay Falcos, just play neutral and/or gimp them at 10%. Its not that hard. Lol
Nah it’s Falco, fuck falco
bad day on unranked? lol
Good video bud, I like the Melee stuff
I agree, with this
As a Melee Samus my matchups are rather iffy. I aint ashamed of who I main. I gotta work for my neutral and my space all the time. I see these Netplay people all the time and I find it insane how people will rage at something so simple.
Thanks for this vid.
Edit: would like to see more of this because stuff like this is super interesting.
Same, I love playing Samus, but often the Netplay Falcos will get pissed off playing me. Then I switch to Fox and body them and they quit.
What actually is that outro music from. I like it
It’s crazy that this is starting to be an issue with kazuya and Steve in WiFi ult brackets.
I am a dogshit falco, but I was always more frustrated with my crappy performance rather than other players. I've tried picking up other characters and playing more patiently.
I think the majority of people are seriously delusional. They pick a spacie and think just because that alone they’re clear from playing lame.
When half the time they’re literally the lamest players on slippi, running away, spamming one option. Then they’ll turn around and say puff or marth or sheik is lame because all they does is fair/bair..
Like what…??? All you’re doing is laser, down air shine. All game.
You’ll stand their and up tilt like 5x in a row then get upset when a marth just “randomly f smashes”
Im tired of lame spacies not admitting that they’re lame.
playing like little weenies but want to be treated like mang0.
Most of the players you're describing are scrubs, I main Fox and my only real issues with with wobbling and excessive planking as Puff, and the rule changes addressed both of those. I have fun playing vs Marth, Sheik, Puff, Peach, ICs, Luigi, Falco, and even characters I have trouble vs like Samus and Falcon lol.. Honestly I'd rather play vs Marth or Falco than Fox ditto.
Edit: ah yeah but scrubs can still be practice occasionally.
Edit 2 Oh forgot to mention I have a lot of fun combo matchu, err, I mean DK. You 0-death me I 0-death you, and also while my Marth is very much not something I would use in tournament, one of my favorite Marth matchups is Sheik lmao
I spent like 3 months only practicing power shielding. Like 75% of falcos quit out by minute 1 now.
How did you practice this? In Uncle Punch?
Honestly if i see any fox players complain about the sheik mu then they should have there controllers taken away from them 🤣🤣
Not a fox player but it's incredibly boring to have some moron chain grab over and over again
that salt over sheik at 10:34 is so fucking funny. for him to use “gay” and “retarded” like that in a public forum he got really mad lmao
Sorry to hate, but this comes off as a really one dimensional take on popular opinions and discourse regarding what's cool vs. requires skill.
My belief is that what makes this game so exciting is its seemingly infinite neutral game, paired with a deep punish game, and fluid movement:
A Plethora of Options.
So one problem faced at a low level is when neither player has a concept of how to play neutral or counter-play. A good example that doesn't involve peach Or Falco is this video I got recommended a few months back titled something like "average netplay experience".
It was a Falcon paired against a Marth, and they played neutral for a solid minute without landing any notable combos. Every time the falcon got stage control, he'd just retreat back to centerstage because the player didn't know what to do against Marth at the ledge. Similarly, all the Marth knew to do was maybe throw out a forward air or smash attack.
The game ended with Marth quitting out about a minute in.
Falcon was lame because he couldn't land any substantial combo. Marth was lame because his neutral options were mostly noncommittal
and unrewarding. Meanwhile, what makes a lame game at the high level is when players opt for extremely primitive punishes and neutral options when there are "better" ways to approach the problems. When a top 50 peach down smashes 100 times on a platform, that can be off-putting.
When a Falco abuses a bad matchup and spams laser at a low tier for a 6 minute game, that is going to be lame as shiez Always.
End of the day, if you want to see game played in an interesting way, you need to do it yourself, or let another top player shine off the top.
holllyyy sshit i'm a year behind on this vid. algorithm wtf?
This has to be some type of bias. I think marth’s have the most brain dead neutral on average
I kinda needed this tbh
Yo dude love the vid! Do u have a twitch?
I play puff: Game 1: v Falco, they win taunting every stock. Game 2: I win (after homie stocking) they still taunt every stock. Game 3: immediately quit after getting tested once.
This isn't a story, just the most common occurrence against Falco players
I always taunt first stock of first game as a hello but when I get "punished" for it I usually quit out to not deal with these kinds of people I just want to have fun. Falco btw
@@thatracc what?
@@gridenboat taunt at the beginning? then get zero to deathed mid animation? its not that confusing.
@@thatracc I get that you have good intentions, but to many people that is a sign of disrespect.
@@tm_14_44 no taunting after a kill or mid match is disrespect before a % has been taken on game one is completely different
Reads Twitlonger about playing what you want, and stopping bashing people for what they play. Bashes people for playing Falco.
Yea this confused me.
Also telling how Falco can't get beyond laser laser dair, but also been carried through low and mid level by getting free laser openings.
Falcos want to be fancy but also play the most lame way to reach mid level? Idk
he didn't bash people for playing falco, he bashed them for being bad at playing falco.
Accountability doesn’t rly mesh with with ego-centric competition many players revolve their personality and life around
Bro next you gotta cover the slippi gen's anti-luigi propaganda.
Anti-luigi propaganda is based
good video. Do you know the percentage of people on netplay playing falco?
Atleast from my own stats(5675 matches over the past couple years) its 46.73%. Honestly insane, i play falco too so im just grinding out dittos
@@clipCommander101 hey thanks for the stats! Yeah I agree, with a game that has 11 viable characters, having THAT many be just 1? honestly pretty sadge
@@vulblhotdiessfi lowkey inspired me to try out fox again
Damn this thumbnail nice
I think a lot of people understand that when they lose they are worse then their opponents. You arnt the only spacy without protagonist syndrome lolol!!!!!I think you are perpetuating shitty mindsets about why we should hate specific characters. These are all just huge sweeping statements about people that play specific characters.
LLods argument is so broad.....I agree with some of the points you made but i think this is deeper than just a spacie problem. I can see how maybe its more common with spacies but i think this is a general mindset problem with a lot of people in the community. People convince themselves they lose for all sorts of reasons. People struggle accepting how good they are and struggle to see why they might be losing or what they need to work on. Even top players make excuses.
you actually end up arguing at one point that a falco complaining that "floaties are easy and require no skill" is hypocritical BECAUSE REALLY falco is easy to pick up and play....
"when you think about it falco players are like the spoiled kids who were always praised while floaties are the kids who had to work and claw for everything they had, only for nobody to care in the end because again...they wernt some agro flashy space animal"
^ huh???
"instead you throw your blind rage onto floaties who already have to work twice as hard as you do just to get an opening in nuetral." where are u pulling these stats from?! lol
am i tripping or is this video just adding to the problem..
well said, you are not tripping. its very hypocritical.
This is why I play laserless Falco. I'm a glutton for punishment and matchups are more fun this way.
I also play Ganon!
Laserless is a great time man. Teaches me to give up bad neutral behaviors
Laserless is just disgusting to me. But do as you want to do :)
leffen already started the Sheik hate
fun isn't It?
Nah, Falco isn't carrying cus I'm ASS.
Why would anyone want to play Fox seriously?
speed
I’m a falco player but I really want to learn and I understand that i need to learn to beat falco so I can recognize my own characters flaws and therefore improve as a player in general by covering my character’s weaknesses. Does that make sense? Sorry if I sound confusing haha
I am scrubbier than even the scrubbiest netplay falco. They prey on me everyday
Dude someone please tell him it’s possible to make a video that isn’t him complaining or talking about drama. This channel is so depressing.
Don't think a few netplay stoners who casually complain about their main is worth a rant but u do u
Exactly what I was thinkin. My man got his shit pushed in by a one too many netplay falcos and pulled out the typewriter
t. netplay falcos
Banger
Doesn't matter if there's hundreds of Falcos, I'll keep going with my Doc. Marth is a real Doc-killer tho
as a mid level player, falco is harder to deal with than a lot of other characters i play against. i learned the matchup and i usually win, but he is much more annoying than the majority of the cast. especially because i play ganon. 💀
im a mr g&w main and i get fucked by netplay falcos. I cant powershield cause my shield is some seriuos bs and my down b (a bucket that can suck up projectiles and when it absorbed 3 projectiles it can send out a wave of water) is VERY lagy. If i absorb it i cant move for like 2 seconds and the falco can go in for a punish. BUT if i miss im also fucked cause i STILL CANT MOVE and the falco can punish. or they quit out cause im playing a low tier. The biggest range mr g&w has is the pan (which is laggy, does little damage, and again, LAGE) and maaaayyyybbbeeee bair but im not that suuuurrreee. bair and fair have the same range, but if you hit a fair high percent = maybe kills low percent = ok damage but ass knockback bair high percent = high hitstun and you can go in with a fair to prolly kill them low percent = you can bair them over and over again if they dont di correctly and if the damage is good fair(good) hammer(risky but great outcome if higher than 5) or nair(prolly best option). i have a entire discord server around mr g&w so i have like 2 years of my live into that (im 15 lolololololooll). but if you fight a netplay falco, camp them and ruin their day please do that, thank you :]
Falco has the exact same moveset as fox but has a different kill chart or route then fox not much else is different except for Falco drops like a rock and jumps way higher than fox
Bro I been peeped this. Niggas pull up w Falco and just tech out, then get shitty when you smack them on some simple shit 😂😂😂. Idk how they don't see the flaw in their game plan
Hey, I don't want to make waves in the scene or anything, but maybe we should stop pretending that Fox and Falco are the epitome of "sick" when Fox has a lame as fuck grab confirm that he has the movement and speed to generally always be able to fish for and Falco has one of the most potent and deadly combo/edgeguarding moves in the entire game. 🤡
good video fran im sure that if I played melee netplay I would be a falco main
We need a crew battle
Haven't watched yet, but this reminds me of the salty tier list video toph put out that said that red falcos are the saltiest.
I think Slippi has lead to a rise in character hate and toxicity, because we aren’t looking our opponent in the eye, shaking his hand and seeing him as a real person. It’s so much easier to get mad when it’s just a name on a screen. Personally I never mald when I’m playing melee IRL, but I’d be lying if I said I haven’t gotten pissed off playing slippi. And it’s not a good feeling, getting mad at your favorite game.
Why did u switch of Ice climbers?
Man fuck what people say I like playing against peach she’s more fun half the time than play the same two laser mixups
I've been a general member of the smash community kinda flowing between both games in the background and if I'm being honestly, what ultimately stops me from playing any smash games outside of just drunk FFA in hyrule fight club at 2am with friends is the amount of complaining the competitive scene has, I know it's not everyone and this video is proof of that even further, but it's just enough to destroy my interest and I wish it could change because I genuinely love smash but it's exhausting to engage with the community at times, and that just makes it exhausting to play the game
Bro it’s just yasuo in league of legends
Can't Believe Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson Beat Westballz
why did u drop icies?
Im aiming for the lame falco not the fancy one :D
Spacies haven't experienced what it's like to have an actually bad matchup. Their complaints come from a place of pure privilege.
sounds like you should switch to spacies
@@rumfordc I switched to Marth now space animal tears are all I drink
@@Zxv975 so you depend on the space animals, almost as if they are the main characters 🤔
@@rumfordc Bit of a stretch ngl
@@Zxv975 just goin off what you said
as a netplay falco (who sucks), i agree
Its funny that you mention it because I believe that PPMD arguably has a more aggressive Falco than Mango lol
I don't really ever see falcos complaining xd, just people complaining about falco
Every character is both lame and based, easy and hard, depending on whats being done by said player of the character. Some people need to understand that every character in this game has their own bullshit and thats what makes it fair, it’s fine it dislike a character or match up, everyone feels some way about something. But yeah spacies calling every floaty lame and killing the game is just as bad as others saying every falco is a netplay falco shitter because they aren’t a top 20 player.
Falco = laser
Great video. I would love more videos on these type of topics.
Honestly I see this from every player on netplay. They’re insanely technically skilled, but will lose to a competent Zelda or Kirby because they can’t figure out how to adapt to new stimuli. There’s a difference between tech skill and competitive/game skill and a lot of people have the former but none of the latter
This thumbnail hits hard tho
Yo a meta game video would be awesome. Maybe like certain periods and such. That'd be awesome.
worst part is. i can't even play falco
his jump squat be taking 20 years
Video #3 of asking franchise what’s the outro song let’s see how many more videos I’ll ask this question on
third time is the charm dekonstruktionists.bandcamp.com/track/showdown
Alright I will say it time to be honsest with my self samus peach is 65-45 and that is ok
I wonder how much hugs will donate too chillin? 5 bucks?
Yoo 1.03
As a Dr. Mario main the only rage quits I see are from Fox/Falco players. Most just sweat so hard to get bodied by a dude who just plays Melee casually and doesn’t know most techs
I play Samus and have had just about every character quit out on me. Minus the rare ones like DK, Mewtwo, etc
i mean i feel like it’s not just falco i would put marth in that category too
Based video
as a marth main I crap all over netplay falcos
@ShartLord maybe it is just my region
Good Marths fuck my shit up. I hate getting gimped at 30% lol
A marth with a solid punish game fucks up most falcos. So good on you for that.
@@anuraagkumar978 yeah usually most netplay Falcos have great tech skill but suffer in the more mental parts of the game like neutral and reading your opponent. Thanks btw
@ShartLord I’m not sure what you mean.
netplay spakcos are my most hated character in any smash game
hate it so so much
2 words. Laser Campers
cody has the thickest NY accent i've ever heard
Thanks for being the best melee content channel (:
so is netplay falco a mindset, bm behaviors, or a playstyle? i still don't quite get it
From what you have said in the video it sounds like that you just plainly don’t like falco I can understand that everyone has their own opinion but we all have to deal with him and every other character in the game. You said you switched from ice’s to fox if your saying that falco takes no skill at the lowest level your also saying that fox doesn’t even need a brain cell to play at the lowest level as falco is essentially a worse fox which makes you sound kinda hypocritical saying falco is so easy to play. I enjoyed the video like always but I don’t think netplay falco is anything near a plague if anything the character that has protagonist syndrome is fox. I watch a lot small fox mains on twitch and from what I see they have more protagonists syndrome then any other character. But this rant at the end of the day your opinion no matter how much you forced it and it was a good video.
Fox is way easier than falco. That's my only comment on this video lol
1:26 When i think Melee i think M2K to be fair. Also 5:15 is hillarious! There is an argument for Armada saving Melee with his Peach! a Low tier character dominating that worked its way up the ranks thank to Armada. Same for Axe, Watching Mango play Falco and Fox over and over is beyond boring, sadly Mangos inflated personality doesn't help the hatred for him, there is no denying he is in the top 3 Greatest players of all time.. Shame about the personality.
BUT AXE! His IS MELEE! AXE IS EVERYTHING MELEE STANDS FOR! Grit Determination and suffering, Axe is skilled enough to have picked fox up and won majors, but he didn't he stuck it out, Axe's Journey is the greatest journey in melee fact! I just hope Amsa can do it with Yoshi.
The thing keeping melee alive is the Gods Sadly leffen Zain and Low tier characters. Fox is uber boring. Look at Leffen for example, you may hate him, but the guy literally learnt Sheik to counter 1 player!!!! thats what keeps Melee alive, For example Armada Taking Young Link to counter Hbox THAT IS WHAT KEEP MELEE ALIVE not spacies lol.
Kids thing Mango is this uber cool hip Hobo and falco is super flashy so i must play falco! when those kids age and get a personality of their own, they will get on Axe and Amsa and Armadas level. And Hbox!
I don't agree that Falco's only have two choises too A. relearn Falco and B. complain I think there is C. Switch to Fox which Toph talks about a lot. His theory is that a lot of netplay Falco's eventually switch to netplay Fox's because if you have techskill the Fox neutral is somewhat easier to understand because it doesn't revolve around Falco laser.
To my fellow falcos, shoot more lasers! Don't let anyone shame you for your characters best tool.
Agreed! Falco without lasers is like Puff without back air. Or maybe better yet like Samus without up-b out of shield. Imagine trying to handle shield pressure without it.
@@iMacxXuserXx485 lol you see the difference between those moves right? Samus up b? If they spam that shit they’re dead. I have nothing against Falco, but his move set is really good, fast, and pretty damn safe.
naw you're cringe go play cookie clicker if you want to play a one player game
"its in the game and we all have to deal with it"
that is where you're wrong.
it's just apart of Falco character design, he talks shit and complain about everything
Lol i get downsmashed by peach all the time for 80% and still take the stock, anyone who complains is just ass at the matchup
Even captain falcon mains get shit talked by falco mains nowadays
Thr captain falcon matchup is interesting because hes such an oppresive character but one good high laser ends his whole career
midplay midco