The two eyelets on top of your pump, that you taped over is to attach a safety cable too. So that in a few years you can still pull your pump up when all the sediment, rust and sand settle on top of your pump. The plastic pipe and wires will not take much force to brake off. I would use stainless cable with stainless cable clamps. Just a heads up for problems down the road.
As a country boy I can totally relate to your well experiences. I had to completely redo my well pump, tank, plumbing and electrical when I bought this place because everything was broken and I couldn't afford a well company to do it. I researched and learned how to do it all myself. Now every time I use water I feel like a pioneer. One more thing, always test your pump in a tub before you put it down the well. It can save a lot of time.
Mozt well pumps in my area are all 220/240 volt, you were plugging it into a 15 amp 120 volt outlet, which will pull 2X the amperage. With a pump at that depth i would be running a 3 wire pump with a VFD which will stop the high torq rotational forces.
As others have said, I would check into running the electrical through a normal submersible pump control box instead of just plugging it straight into the generator. That will have the capacitor in it to help the pump start. Check with your pump supplier for what would work with your 2-wire pump, but that's at least the case on the three-wire pumps I've worked with.
Great video ! One way to save on generator oversizing would be that of installing a soft starter. It will reduce your starting Amps by up to 70%. The problem you were encountering is likely due to the fact that during a motor start (just like the deep-well pump) the current drawn is about 7-8 times the rated current and the generator might not handle that due to the starting kVA capability.
My well sit for 6 years because I switched to city water. I pulled pump installed a constant pressure system for irrigation and the water looked just like that. I pumped it for 6 hours straight and it’s crystal clear now. My well isn’t nearly as deep as yours it’s 215ft and was drilled in 1964 replenish rate is 75gpm it fed 6 chicken houses , 4 residential homes and a barn at one time. Very blessed to have it I just hope it keeps producing and the casing doesn’t rust. Keep pumping!
I don't know why but have watched all your videos and I'm rotting for you I admire your calmness and your wife is great support good luck in your new home
Most likely it needed extra amps for longer than the inverters surge amp cycle time. The small gen probably was enough run amps but not starting amps. Now that the system is primed it might keep up.
Your perseverance, determination, and lack of throwing cursing fits absolutely amazes me. I have watched your vids from time to time and this time I subscribed (and rang the bell for the first time ever. I'm not realty sure what that does-I'm old). Your sense of frustration is hopefully more than compensated for when you overcome a problem such as you did here. I am a self employed renovation contractor and have to work through similar stonewalls so I feel your pain and your satisfaction. This is an amazing adventure you all are on. I only wish I had the resources and youth to try something like this. Best of luck to you all. PS never underestimate the reinvigorating power of the smile and encouragement of a beautiful,sweet, woman. That's something you can't pick up at the hardware store. Having a good dog along doesn't hurt either. I'll bet sometimes you'd like to trade places with the dog and fetch sticks while the dog digs the frozen ground.
Lots of hard work, love seeing the whole family working on their dream. Each adventure a learning opertunity for everyone (including us) best thing with doing it your self you understand and know how it went together and and repair it in the future. Keep smiling.
Nice work! It’s always nice when a hard job ends in success. I was interested to see the pitless adapter install. I did not use it for my well, but I am in a warmer climate. If you ever have to pull that pump (now that it has the added weight of 196’ of water in the stand pipe) look into making a trolley/roller system. Basically, take an old wheel rim and rig it up to rotate on a stand next to the wellhead. You can then pull the pump out with a tractor or truck by letting the pipe roll over the wheel. It keeps the pipe from kinking as you pull it up and over the head of the casing. It also prevents scraping the wire on the casing. It will save your back, too.
Just make sure you always have someone watching so that you don’t get things tangled up and break something. Also, make sure you have the cables, rope, and pipe all tied up when you start tugging. The cable may want to slide down and make a big ball...ask me how I now.
In fact, you only pull the weight of 94 ft pipe and the water in it, plus the weight of the pump. The rest of it is canceled by the external pressure of water.
True enough, but I have not found it to help in practice. Some of that may be drag on the sides if the pipe. My deepest well was 275ft with the head at 35ft. It was terribly hard to pull the pump.
@@lenrsmith How about 416 ft with 301 ft above the surface of water at the weel i just installed it? You don't want to be arround when it needs to be pulled out!
Nice details! I went through a drilled well back in 1997. I was lucky to have a Native American use a divining rod, actually two of them to locate a drilling site. 105 ft. I decided to use a 230 V. A. C. 5.9 amp 1/2 hp gould pump. Most sinewave inverters won't start a 2 wire pump. I used 10 gauge wire. But a 4kw genrac generator started it. Locked rotor amps was 35 amps. But my home was 450 ft. Away. Finally I bought a Trace SW4024 sinewave inverter and a 2kw 120v to 240v transformer and wired the pressure switch to a 60 amp relay that controlled the transformer so you would not be wasting losses running the transformer with no load. Now on the inverter output surge the amp draw of the well pump was 60 amp for a split second because the inverter was 120 volt then going through the transformer then to the pump. If I had a 120 volt pump it would not have worked with that distance with only 10 gauge wire. Maybe 2 gauge...
My first thought was "needs a hard start capacitor" because my background is in HVAC. It did not occur to me that more watts from the generator would do it, but it should have. My brain just doesn't work like it used to. Like most issues, persistence solved it. Well done.
Hello from South Florida. The take away here is you got the pump running. Your generator is trying to start the pump but couldn't sustain the long draw amps and shutdown. Generators usually have a "peak rating" . That Predator has 3500 Watts Peak...that is 29 Amps (run @ 25 A). You were drawing 32-36A. The other generator will peak @ 6250W = 52A and run @ 5000W=41A. Watts = Volts x Amps
Only one thing you forget on pumps that deep we use cable guards to keep the wire from rubbing on the case I seen many times the pump still good but had wire rub but most of the time it's already 15 20 year old so we just replace it all😁👍👍
@@larryray4811 The way I understood this, the water head is only 90 feet, never mind how deep the well may be. But I do agree that 1/2 HP sounds too small to be able to deliver any kind of useful flow.
@@larryray4811 At minute 14:56, give or take, he says that the static water level is 94 feet. The well and the pump are deeper, but all that counts is the water head, since the pump won’t make any effort to push the water up until it reaches the surface at -94 feet.
@@larryray4811 Also, at 18:10, he says that pipe is 196 feet. It follows that pump is at approx. -196 ft., very far from the well bottom, but irrelevant because it’s only the water head that counts.
TIP, on that weep hole at the bottom of the frost free faucet, add a 90 degree elbow and I always add a 2" extension with that. Helps keep sand or sediment from clogging it I've seen many of those installed without and they don't last long, every one I've installed with the elbow and extension I have never had an issue with
The well driller/pump installers have always installed check valve at the pump and half way up the pipe for the different wells I have drilled or had to replace pumps in. I would suggest more torque arrestors on the pipe every 50' is what the well driller recommended. Keep pumping the water until it clears up and make sure you treat since the well you pulled the pipe several times and introduced biological contaminates to the well. The place that sold you the pump should be able to tell you what to use.
You should go with a 3 phase inverter controller and it will reduce your amp draw down to a max of 10amps. And when running as low as 3.5amps. They cost some money but saves the life span of the pump and saves money over time. Also great for a off grid system
suggestion... ready to go 10 by 10 well house sturdy enough to hold solar panels. insulated for harsh winters. Include a runoff drain for "OOPS" shelving for batteries and spare parts etc. include limited lighting, a heater set to come on at 40 degrees. have fun. Keep Julie happy! If that river crosses your land put a "mother earth" generator. build a dinky water tower to have a secondary water source use the generator to again supply electric pump etc...
If you prime the pump first to avoid the high draw on startup. If there is water in the pipe it won't draw as much. Noticed once it started flowing you meter showed 11.
My grandfather dug a well in our house using his hands and we have been using it for many years, although he did not dig much at first, it had a lot of mud, and then the water quality became excellent ... for the information Our house well in Syria so everything differs
Always nice when the well guys dig you a trench for the pitless adapter install while they have a machine there, or install it before they lower the last section down 4 ft ... but after 4 long days they may have forgotten ... and yea, even 110v well pump need a large generator ... that pump has to work hard to get that column of water up 500 ft ... they pull a lot of juice, especially on start up ... too little juice and they overheat, causing thermal shut down ... glad you solved the issue ... all part of the well learning curve .... most 230 v systems require a control box to modulate and protect motor and circuits
Please stop saying I picked this video for you to watch when it’s an old video that we have already seen.😂😂🙃🙃We are more interested in your daily and weekly progress, (wish they are sequential and numbered) in that order:) and not go back to the previous videos. Most interested about your clean drinkable water problem or progress. You’re doing a wonderful job regardless of your little mistakes. Quite admirable to see you and your lovely wife along with well adjusted son of yours to dive into a rather difficult and monumental task at hand all by yourselves, in a difficult location with great confidence and cooperation with one another. Truly admirable!!! She’s truly a Jewel of a woman with great personality and always smiling no matter what. 👍👏 Looking forward to a beautiful and successful completion !
Julie Johnson it took weeks for our water to clear up running it all day long everyday but we did have the nicest grass that year, we hooked it to 3 sprinklers to go at the same time. They ran directly from the pump as we didnt hook it to a pressure tank til it cleared up🙂
Well That sure seemed deep for a well . I did one 42 years ago and it was 100 feet with water at 25. Don't feel bad that was 40 years ago before regulations. It was back in the cable tool days. they punched the well with a 6 inch spoon type tool. Congratulations. You are there. 500 feet of head with a 220 volt submersible pump WOW. Great patience doing that job.
🙋♂️ lol When you plugged it into that 3500watt, I had a feeling it wouldn’t pump. We had the same issue. We have a 9500watt just for our well. Be careful at startup to always have the valve open, otherwise you can “deadhead” the pump. That’s what we were told. So glad you got it pumping, now to clean some water 😛 .....wait that doesn’t sound right 😜
@@MartinJohnsonOffGridLiving ours is a 3/4 horse I think. Homestead rescue had it installed. I know it takes a 30amp breaker. We pull close to 20 gal a minute.
Best suggestion to avoid the rusty water issues is : Do NOT Allow them to install the Steel/Iron casing. use PVC instead. 1.) It eliminates the dirty rust water. 2.) It reduces the risk of pump and pipe loss due to lightening strikes burning holes in the metal pipes and damaging the pump. Cleaner water and far less issues down the road. BTW: the PVC Pitiless installation would have been far easier as well. Lessons I did not have to learn the hard way. (We have and old 750 foot Steel/iron well on the farm; dirty water and pipe/pump burn out every couple of years. At least use PVC down pipes, (these are not like the tubing used in this video but rather PVC Pipes manufactured especially for use in wells. They are threaded and install the same as regular 20 foot length steel well down pipes). PVC casings cannot be driven down like steel casings can be so they must be drilled in by a qualified well driller and then properly grouted.
Hi! My name is Andrew and I work for McCullough and Sons Well Drilling. So the issue of steel vs PVC casing and dirty rust water are not related. That dirty rust water is caused by iron in the water, not the steel the casing. This iron in the water comes from deep down in bedrock or wherever your water is located underground. It’s a mineral that is present in the water whether it’s PVC or steel casing. If there is an orange goopy sloppy gross stuff on the outside of that pipe that you pulled out of the well (that’s called drop pipe), you have what is called “iron bacteria”. It’s a bacteria that gets in the well and feeds on that iron mineral in the water. If that gets inside your pipes it can stop everything up :) There are also situations where we can’t use PVC drop pipe. PVC drop pipe is used for shallow wells that don’t have a submersible motor above 1/2HP. A 3/4HP pump is pushing the capacity and strength of PVC pipe. The other problem with putting PVC drop pipe down a deep well with a pump larger than a 1/2HP is that when that 3/4HP pump fires up, it generates a massive amount of torque which whips the bendy flexible PVC pipe around inside the well. That can cause your wire to get split or severed. Deep settings generally use steel for this reason. That’s quite a deep well you have :) 750 feet deep is no joke.
@@monkeybeaver76 What happens with regularity on our 750 deep well is that a lightning strike anywhere near, say within 1200 feet will run through top soil to the well casing while burning holes in the drop pipes and cooking anything in the upper 25 feet of water within the casing to a blackened sludge. The common practice of disinfecting the well does nothing to change this issue. (I'm pretty darn certain the iron is leaching out of the rusty casing walls regardless of what you say.) 750 feet of rusty casings is no joke. In Northern Minnesota known for iron water our PVC well casing only runs 150 feet deep and the drop pipe is also all threaded PVC 100 feet deep. We haven had iron water, bacteria, or lighting, or pump issues with this well, not since the day it was put online 30 years ago. I may NOT be a well driller; I do know what works far better.
I decide to run stell casing vs ovc, in case I ever wanted to go deeper or any work in the hole it would be protected. There are supposed to be 2 more zones of water below my current 104 to 140. One at 250 and one at 300. If at some time inthe future, my family or kids need to go to a deeper zone, a drilll string can right down the casing, but not on PVC in would tear it up and a guy would lose his well.
My well water has orangish tint (from iron), sometimes light grey (from shale). I spent a lot of time and money installing proper filtration to correct the issue. My water comes out the other end (my spigots) without any smell or color, just clear. My well is at about 70 feet so much shallower. My pump is a 240VAC 1/2 horse. Its interesting that some people do 110VAC for a pump. All the pumps I have installed were 240VAC. The video was interesting in respect to the fact you the home owner are installing the well yourself. Nicely done video though.
I think it's gonna work! Update: Well, then. As a note for future troubleshooting, the time-saving step you missed is ... testing the second pump before install. Also, I'm curious what the electrical specs are on the well. We know that many high-draw appliances (e.g., table saws and refrigerators) have a massive surge at start-up. Did the pump come with that information, or was it only labeled as 1200W?
all the 110 volt pumps use a 15 amp braker, that much more then it needs, a 1 hp 220 volt also uses a 15 amp, that 110 volt will use 8 amps at start, and run on 5
Close the presure side of the pump. Then start the pump. When the pump is running, open the valve. Sometimes this will help the pump startup a little easyer. The combination with electrical pump and a generator is always tricky. The startup needs a lot of amps
I bought a Kinetico water softener to fix my water rust issue and bonus it doesn't use electricity. Also, have a single filter between the well and the Kinetico. It uses about 7 bags of salt a year and if you buy filters in bulk you can save money. The system is 3 grand.
I ran mine in Northwest Florida for 24 hours at 30 gallons per minute to get clear water. Mine was only 40 feet deep as we live on a sand island and the Choctawhachee Bay is about 250 feet from the well. Only use it for irrigation for the last 15 years when we hooked up when municipal water was run in the area
I'm so glad you got running water on your homestead! Been watching since the beginning and I felt just as frustrated as you were with the hand dug attempts. Love you guys, Love the content, Keep up the good work!
As a retired Well service worker, I can empathize with you. Pulling a new pump because it does not work is not any fun. I praise you for working in the freezing snow/ice. I can't believe that the well driller did not leave you a "pitless" adapter already installed. I have placed one pump that ran on solar, had a charging system and a battery, ran on 12 volts d.c. The second pump will work, I watched you install the first and you did everything correctly. Good luck with the pump.
I agree with your solar pump. I do think he did a good job putting in the pump. I would have used 1 or 2 more torque arrestors, and 3 flat pump wire and some super 88. And I love the green pipe tape it’s the best. And I would have put some Corine tablets down the well. But that’s just me. I hope it all works out for them.
My pumps required a capacitor starter . they were 240 V but a capacitor helps the pump start because the sudden load on the motor gets stored energy from a cap
I use an AC controller on my well, an expensive control box, but it makes 3 phase power and also is variable frequency (softstart) so it starts the 3 phase motor (4 wire) at 30 Hz, and then adjusts the frequency up to get higher RPM and more GPM out of the pump. But the motor and pump are heavier but it doesn't pull so many amps at start up and it doesn't pull as many amps ever because the 3 phase motor is more efficient. My setup will pump 26 GPM with a 1 HP (3 phase) motor and pump, when at 60 Hz and 2 valves wide open (low pressure). I get about 20 GPM at 50 PSI and under 5 amps, but the static level of the water in my well is only about 70 feet down, so less head. But softstart is nice as it maintains a very steady pressure, I use a pentek intellidrive (PID 10) that handles up to 1 HP. I also use schedule 120 PVC to hang the pump on instead of the poly pipe, and 1 1/4 pipe to flow more than 20 GPM. Most houses only need around 8 GPM but I also have irrigation and I'm not off grid.
It was with a generator then I bought a long extension cord to. A 3500 is not big enough. You said your static water head is 100’? That also adds to the load on the pump. My static water is 15’ to 20’. I built a rug and drilled it myself. Got a few videos if you are interested.
Or the pump is too large. You don't necessarily need to pump at the capacity of the well, especialy when you have a storage tank. You do need enough capacity to overcome 100 foot head. With a storage tank one could pump less water per minute, have less surge but pump a little longer. Those are good lessons for off grid living and good math examples for kids to see how math and science can be used to solve everyday issue. Another example is the difference between the Amp draw of a 120 volt pump versus a 240 volt pump of the same capacity or horsepower.
@@ricklearned1686, the amperage draw is the same, it just splits it across two legs. That is why the wattage of the pump remains the same at low voltage and high voltage.
@@DiamondJim53 You are correct that the power is the same. Perhaps you are confused because a 240 volt circuit uses two breakers? I am using the traditional measurement which most electricians use when measuring the current on a circuit. Martin used a clamp Ammeter on one leg and measured 35 Amps at 120 volts. If Martin were to use a 240 volt motor of the same horsepower (Wattage) he would have measured 17.5 Amps. It doesn't matter which leg, the Amperage is the same. You can can count the Coulombs if you want to make some obscure point. However there is a good reason that large industial equipment often runs at higher voltages. It is more efficient for a number of reasons. Less copper, less power loss to mention a few. In the case of a 240 volt well pump, it is still two wires and half the Amps at the pump for a 240 volt motor than a 120 volt motor. I have switched the leads on many table saw motors and they all run cooler and rip through thicker wood easier when wired for 240 volts. That is why many of those motors are built for two voltages.
You should have tried the pump outside, with a bowl of water before to deepen the pump down in the pit... Maybe it will be easier to troubleshoot the problem... If possible, I think it will be worth try with a simulation first, just to know if the thing I'm going to install is working as expected... Thank you for sharing, I hope manage to fix it!
Grundfos has always been my go to. They also stand up to all kinds of contamination and weird pH and remediation additives in my environmental remediation/extraction wells.
Thanks for the info. Like a lot of products made today, a few brands really try to stick with top quality materials and quality assembly, and some are a collection of import parts thrown together. It is helpful to know what is a good reliable brand, especially with something like a well pump. Thank again because I will be buying a new pump this summer.
Great Fun !! Something to keep in mind for spring, run your wire in some plastic ( ie; PVC, Pecs whichever is cheaper).. it'll protect wire and later you can pull/add remote start wires for the generator (in the pumphouse) from the house... ( a nice back-up). Stay Safe
Congratulations, The color of the first water is not too brown and that's a good indicator! Just let the pump work for 2 hours and you will get a very clean water. 👌
That is why a lot of pumps that size are 240 volt instead of 120 volt. Voltage goes up and amp on the wire go down. So 32 amps now at 120 volt would be 16 amps on the wire at 240 volt and voltage drop on your 10 gauge wire will be almost not existing, because the resistance issues happen more when you are near the full amp load of the wires capacity.
Perhaps it's to little to late but for other folks, with a lot of electrical appliances you must allow twice the running amps for start up. This means if the pump runs at 30 amps it may require 60 amps at starting. I learned that when looking for a generator to run my welding gear. It was cheaper to buy a used mobile gas welder. It runs all the tooling the mobile rig needs.
YES! You installed the hose clamps with the 'heads' of them, on opposite sides of the pipe. If there is going to be any leaks through the plastic pipe under those clamps it will be at the head of the clamp. Installing them with the heads on the opposite sides lessens the problem.
until you get the wellhouse with the purifying system set up, you can purify the water with a still (the thing you make moonshine and other alcoholic beverages with)
I'd just drink the water when it comes out of the faucet. We drink rain water and well water all the time. No cancer in my family.... No factory chemical water for us. You need the microscopic rock for good health. Purifying water is for townies...
Yes it should fit by the adapter AT LEAST ONCE YOU REMOVE THE INSIDE FLANGE PORTION which you have to remove anyway to get water to the rest of water line such as the frost proof hydrant and eventually water line to house etc.
If the pump is really pulling that many amps, the wire is sized too small for that length. ALWAYS test your pump in a barrel or tub of water up top before installing to make sure it works. Could have saved yourself returning a perfectly good pump and wasting a lot of time redoing everything. Very interesting but too many adds. Keep up the good work.
The wire is fine, those are starting amps on the starting windings. It is normal, except with an undersized genset the pump stays in start mode and thus the high amps.
Good video. Many years ago a neighbor of mine thought it would be a good idea to sink our own shallow wells for irrigation. Much easier job that yours but it was still a difficult 2 weekends to sink 4 wells (for 4 homes). Your video brought back some good memories.
Your determination is admirable. Marty, when you said that about Julie's job being cute was hard, I cringed. Good save though. Julie your expression was priceless 😂
My friend you have to, gauge The wire for The length. Also there is something called I2 when the fuse is drawing more then it can handle it will fall down automatically. So for example you have a 16 amp fuse i2 over her in Europe is 1,3 16*1,3 = 20,8 amps if the current is higher then this the circuit will fall down protecting the wire from burning 👍👍😊
Look up Lakos sandmaster filters. Buy a stainless steel one. They use centrifugal force to essentially throw the sand and grit to the outside of the filter housing. Then there is a purge valve at the bottom - you manually flush out the sediment say once a week. I would have your water tested to see if you need an acid neutralizer and a water softener. These would go in next, in that order. The final filter in the system would be something like a Rusco filter with a purge valve at the bottom. This has a removable cleanable filter element. Of course, the other thing you need is a pressure tank. I like Well-x-trol. This would be the second thing in the system after the sandmaster filter. Fun Stuff! And congratulations on getting all that hard work done!
Great job on the well pump. To clear up your water.... run your well pump .....fuel up your generator and just run water ... eventually the water will start to clear up. Basically you need to clear out the mud..... just run the pump and it should start to run clear.
The idea of the none return valve is quite good to keep water in the pipeline when the pump stops. Or you will have to always bleed the system off air.
When you start up a centrifugal pump for the first time, it has almost no back-pressure to overcome as the discharge pipe is empty. This means that for a short period of time (as the pipe fills) the flowrate that the pump is delivering will be very high. The motor current is more-or-less proportional to the volumetric flow through the pump and will therefore be very high until there is some back pressure and the flowrate significantly falls. When you are down to a normal operating flowrate then the motor current will be a lot less. As an aside, it is not well known that when you run a centrifugal pump against a closed valve then the motor current falls to a minimum, when you open up the valve then the flow gets going and the motor current goes up.
It looks like you need to install some type of in-line sump filter somewhere between the pump and water softener, if you are using a water softener. I have an in-line filter made by Aqua-Pure and it uses replaceable filter cartridges (Part number AP110) to clean debris from my drinking water. My well is down 420 feet and this filter system works out very well for me. I hope something like this a solution for you as well.
It looks like that was a lot of work, glad you got it figured out. That is a fairly long run for 110V pump, you going to need a larger gauge wire or the pump is not going to last very long. You just can't look at the wire table to determine the size of the wire as you would for sizing your breaker to the #15 wire in the house. That figure is for safety and heating determination only. You need to calculate the voltage loss at your maxim current based on the cable resistance. Your 120 volts at the generator is going to be more like 80 or 90V or lower at pump startup. Also remember a 100' well has 200' of cable got to figure both the line and neutral resistances as additive. You should be looking for at least a 220V pump or even better a 3 phase pump with a VFD (variable frequency drive) type pump controller. The 3phase with controller has the advantage because there is little starting surge or torque as the pump are ramped up slowly. They can monitor the pump load and adjust the RPM and power accordingly based on the water delivery requirement. This is the same inverter technology that makes the new variable speed compressor AC/heat pump units so efficient. The other function you need is the ability to shut the pump down if the water level falls below the pump, the motors are water cooled and don't last long pumping air. The controllers provide that function as well. Good luck
I don't know your generator, but since it is revving up quite a bit when you plug in the pump, I would guess it is in eco-mode. Turn that off, so it is running at a much higher RPM before you plug the pump in.. Then it might work with the small one.
For the people who do not know. There are several factors when choosing a well pump and power supply. Well pumps are sized by the amount of lift (head) required. Lift is the distance between the top of the well (to make easy) and the water level that the pump will be operating. In this case the "well" was at 500+ feet, the static water level was at 94', and I believe that the pipe installed was 194' giving the pump 100' of water above it given the static water level of 94'. In addition, unless the water run is down hill and the highest discharge point is below the top level of the well, the pump needs additional head capacity to provide water at a pressure (PSI) that is acceptable to the user. Some people think that 20 PSI is great, some people want 100 PSI so that they don't wait forever. "Normal" is in the 40-60PSI range. More pressure equals bigger pump and more power required to run it. Ideal would be to put the well at the top of the hill, your house at the bottom and let the fall (pressure built up by water flowing down hill) provide the pressure. The problem is the initial cost to drill the well at the top of the hill will be greater, assuming there is actually water under the top of the hill or that you actually have a "hill" to be on top of. Pay money now or pay money later over time. The starting load is always 150-200% of the running load depending on how much water (head) is on top of the pump. Running load is determined by how much head the pump has to overcome pumping the water to its destination. Head is a function of the level the pump is at in the well, pump to top of the well PLUS any up hill flow required from the well to the discharge point of the water. The pump has to be sized for the total amount of head required plus an additional amount required to supply adequate pressure at the point where the water is being used. Example if the pump will pump 100 feet of head and your pipe is straight up 100 feet the water will flow out the top of the pipe at the pressure of a bad drinking fountain, if you cut the pipe at the 50' mark you will have good working pressure. The pump has to be sized to provide adequate pressure, usually 20 PSI or more, at the highest point in the water system. If you can, always get a pump that runs on 240 volts, the starting load (amps) will be 1/2 (more or less) than a 120 volt pump. Also the wire size is smaller for a 240 volt circuit than a 120 volt circuit. Always size the pump for 20-30% more head than required if you can afford it. More head capacity, even if not used, will provide more pressure at the discharge point. If you can always size the wire larger than required to reduce line losses. If the wire required is 12 gauge try to use a 10 gauge or 8 if the well is very deep. The extra cost will pay for itself in the long run. More so with a 120 volt pump than a 240 Volt pump. Side note the static water level is a function of the depth of the overall well and the ground pressure on the water at that depth which forces the ground water up to a "static" level which will be maintained as long as the pump is NOT pumping. When the pump is working, given X as the static water level, a recharge rate of 10 gallons per minuet, and the overall amount of water pumped the static water level will either stay the same or temporary lower. There is about 1 gallon of water in every foot of 6" pipe. So if you use 1 gallon of water every 1 minuet the static water level will not change much. So if your well produces 10 gallons of water per minuet and you are using 10 gallons of water per minuet the static water level will not change much and will return to the normal static level quickly. If you are using 20 gallons per minuet and your well recharges at 10 gallons per minuet you will run out of water and have to wait for the well to catch up. Never run your pump dry even if the manufacturer says you can. The pump doesn't know what the recharge rate of the well is. All it knows is when the pump is on it pumps as hard as it can and when the pump is off it doesn't pump at all. What then happens is if you have 100 gallons of water in the pipe between the normal water static level and the pump then if you pump 100 gallons of water at one time the pump will be out of water and not able to pump more water until more water flows into the well (recharge rate). What happens to the water level depends on the pumping rate of the pump, the restrictions in the line, and the recharge rate in this case expressed in gallons of water per minuet. If your pump and pipe restrictions can pump water at 20 gallons of water per minuet your well will "run out" of water until the well can catch up after the pump is not running. If your recharge rate is more or equal to the discharge rate then your well never runs out of water. The water in the pipe between the normal static water level and the pump acts like a buffer to help smooth out the recharge rate and the discharge rate so that you don't "run out" of water. Every well is different, some will never know, some will learn the hard way about recharge rates. Poor wells are generally more about the recharge rate and not the quality of the water. Unless your well recharges at 5 gallons per minuet or more you will learn how to conserve water use quickly. 3 gallons per minuet is a bare minimum for drinking and washing. Install stainless steel wire to the pump so that you do not rely on the pipe to pull the pump. Just think about all of those joints in the pipe when you are pulling it back up. Fishing a fallen pump out of the well is a miserable job.
@@scottwallen461 Thanks for the comment Scott. It is good to know that at least 2 people read, I assume, the whole post so that it wasn't a total waste of time even if one of them already knew the information. I must have been board that day to write that much.I guess it is one of those subjects that unless you give the broad overview it is a waste of time to give the readers digest version.
pump the well until it clears and then for 1 hr after it clears, and then it will still a bit colored for a period of time until everything settles underground. Also suspend the pup with the rope not the plastic pipe.
Just something for you to think about I hope you changed out the galvanized pipe fittings you installed down at your pump they should of been brass. I think someone said you also need wire guards up your pipe. You also could of drilled out the top of your pitless adapter and well cap and placed your hydrant down in the well pipe, maybe you were going to move your hydrant later to another place. Just tossing thing out at you as I did for my well. Good luck. ~ Francis
🔥 *WATCH OUR OFF GRID CABIN BUILD FROM THE BEGINNING* th-cam.com/video/MGfugfuzFJk/w-d-xo.html
Yoo martin you definitely need to put insulation on the water pipe and pump so it won’t freeze 🥶
Don’t make that mistake trust me put some on it
Martin, how are you getting water into the house if you didn't already have a well? Are you sharing water from your neighbor's house?
You should really be running a 220v pump at that depth. 110 is a no go. Buy a new pump
The pump is 200’ under ground.
Maybe later. This one is working fine for now.
The two eyelets on top of your pump, that you taped over is to attach a safety cable too. So that in a few years you can still pull your pump up when all the sediment, rust and sand settle on top of your pump. The plastic pipe and wires will not take much force to brake off. I would use stainless cable with stainless cable clamps. Just a heads up for problems down the road.
you are right, i have seen a few pumps that end up in the bottom of the well .
Use stainless cable and hardware.
15:00 if you notice before at he put the pump in he tied a nylon yellow rope too one of the eyelets
I wonder what his pumping water level is.
Hopefully the 1/2 hp pump will do the trick
@@valvemonky4734 the yellow rope is useless! Needs to be stainless
As a country boy I can totally relate to your well experiences. I had to completely redo my well pump, tank, plumbing and electrical when I bought this place because everything was broken and I couldn't afford a well company to do it. I researched and learned how to do it all myself. Now every time I use water I feel like a pioneer. One more thing, always test your pump in a tub before you put it down the well. It can save a lot of time.
Lol. How you get your tub full without the pump working :) :) ????
@@videosByRuss just put water in a tub
@@captjim007 I mean you have no water at the house 😂
Mozt well pumps in my area are all 220/240 volt, you were plugging it into a 15 amp 120 volt outlet, which will pull 2X the amperage. With a pump at that depth i would be running a 3 wire pump with a VFD which will stop the high torq rotational forces.
As others have said, I would check into running the electrical through a normal submersible pump control box instead of just plugging it straight into the generator. That will have the capacitor in it to help the pump start. Check with your pump supplier for what would work with your 2-wire pump, but that's at least the case on the three-wire pumps I've worked with.
Great video ! One way to save on generator oversizing would be that of installing a soft starter. It will reduce your starting Amps by up to 70%. The problem you were encountering is likely due to the fact that during a motor start (just like the deep-well pump) the current drawn is about 7-8 times the rated current and the generator might not handle that due to the starting kVA capability.
My well sit for 6 years because I switched to city water. I pulled pump installed a constant pressure system for irrigation and the water looked just like that. I pumped it for 6 hours straight and it’s crystal clear now. My well isn’t nearly as deep as yours it’s 215ft and was drilled in 1964 replenish rate is 75gpm it fed 6 chicken houses , 4 residential homes and a barn at one time. Very blessed to have it I just hope it keeps producing and the casing doesn’t rust. Keep pumping!
I can't believe how optimistic you remained! Love the enthusiasm.
I would have been throwing stuff, and I'm supposed to be a Christian!🤣
Optimistic on camera. Who knows what tears and cursing went on while not recording. Ellen Degeneres was also very sweet in the public eye.
I don't know why but have watched all your videos and I'm rotting for you I admire your calmness and your wife is great support good luck in your new home
Most likely it needed extra amps for longer than the inverters surge amp cycle time. The small gen probably was enough run amps but not starting amps. Now that the system is primed it might keep up.
Your perseverance, determination, and lack of throwing cursing fits absolutely amazes me. I have watched your vids from time to time and this time I subscribed (and rang the bell for the first time ever. I'm not realty sure what that does-I'm old). Your sense of frustration is hopefully more than compensated for when you overcome a problem such as you did here. I am a self employed renovation contractor and have to work through similar stonewalls so I feel your pain and your satisfaction. This is an amazing adventure you all are on. I only wish I had the resources and youth to try something like this. Best of luck to you all. PS never underestimate the reinvigorating power of the smile and encouragement of a beautiful,sweet, woman. That's something you can't pick up at the hardware store. Having a good dog along doesn't hurt either. I'll bet sometimes you'd like to trade places with the dog and fetch sticks while the dog digs the frozen ground.
Lots of hard work, love seeing the whole family working on their dream. Each adventure a learning opertunity for everyone (including us) best thing with doing it your self you understand and know how it went together and and repair it in the future. Keep smiling.
😃
Martin, I have to give it you, you have chops to attempt a job like that in the middle of winter! Great job!
Nice work! It’s always nice when a hard job ends in success. I was interested to see the pitless adapter install. I did not use it for my well, but I am in a warmer climate. If you ever have to pull that pump (now that it has the added weight of 196’ of water in the stand pipe) look into making a trolley/roller system. Basically, take an old wheel rim and rig it up to rotate on a stand next to the wellhead. You can then pull the pump out with a tractor or truck by letting the pipe roll over the wheel. It keeps the pipe from kinking as you pull it up and over the head of the casing. It also prevents scraping the wire on the casing. It will save your back, too.
That is a great idea. I’ll do it next time we pull the pump.
Just make sure you always have someone watching so that you don’t get things tangled up and break something. Also, make sure you have the cables, rope, and pipe all tied up when you start tugging. The cable may want to slide down and make a big ball...ask me how I now.
In fact, you only pull the weight of 94 ft pipe and the water in it, plus the weight of the pump. The rest of it is canceled by the external pressure of water.
True enough, but I have not found it to help in practice. Some of that may be drag on the sides if the pipe. My deepest well was 275ft with the head at 35ft. It was terribly hard to pull the pump.
@@lenrsmith How about 416 ft with 301 ft above the surface of water at the weel i just installed it?
You don't want to be arround when it needs to be pulled out!
I run my home well pump on an indoor 40 amp circuit breaker. So the bigger generator amperage is the answer. Glad you got it set up.
When you use the clamp on amp meter you should only be around either the hot leg or the neutral but not both and not the ground either
True
Nice details! I went through a drilled well back in 1997. I was lucky to have a Native American use a divining rod, actually two of them to locate a drilling site. 105 ft. I decided to use a 230 V. A. C. 5.9 amp 1/2 hp gould pump. Most sinewave inverters won't start a 2 wire pump. I used 10 gauge wire. But a 4kw genrac generator started it. Locked rotor amps was 35 amps. But my home was 450 ft. Away. Finally I bought a Trace SW4024 sinewave inverter and a 2kw 120v to 240v transformer and wired the pressure switch to a 60 amp relay that controlled the transformer so you would not be wasting losses running the transformer with no load. Now on the inverter output surge the amp draw of the well pump was 60 amp for a split second because the inverter was 120 volt then going through the transformer then to the pump. If I had a 120 volt pump it would not have worked with that distance with only 10 gauge wire. Maybe 2 gauge...
My first thought was "needs a hard start capacitor" because my background is in HVAC. It did not occur to me that more watts from the generator would do it, but it should have. My brain just doesn't work like it used to. Like most issues, persistence solved it. Well done.
Hello from South Florida. The take away here is you got the pump running. Your generator is trying to start the pump but couldn't sustain the long draw amps and shutdown. Generators usually have a "peak rating" . That Predator has 3500 Watts Peak...that is 29 Amps (run @ 25 A). You were drawing 32-36A. The other generator will peak @ 6250W = 52A and run @ 5000W=41A. Watts = Volts x Amps
+Lou Cinci Thanks for your input. I appreciate you taking the time to give it. Hope you have a really great day and keepsm:)ing!
Only one thing you forget on pumps that deep we use cable guards to keep the wire from rubbing on the case I seen many times the pump still good but had wire rub but most of the time it's already 15 20 year old so we just replace it all😁👍👍
I don't belive the depth part. a 1/2 to 3/4 hp pump will never get water to top at 500ft.
@@larryray4811 The way I understood this, the water head is only 90 feet, never mind how deep the well may be. But I do agree that 1/2 HP sounds too small to be able to deliver any kind of useful flow.
@@engineerinnewyork I thought i saw when drilling that the went to 600 and then back up to 500. They showed a chart, but i could be mistaken.
@@larryray4811 At minute 14:56, give or take, he says that the static water level is 94 feet. The well and the pump are deeper, but all that counts is the water head, since the pump won’t make any effort to push the water up until it reaches the surface at -94 feet.
@@larryray4811 Also, at 18:10, he says that pipe is 196 feet. It follows that pump is at approx. -196 ft., very far from the well bottom, but irrelevant because it’s only the water head that counts.
TIP, on that weep hole at the bottom of the frost free faucet, add a 90 degree elbow and I always add a 2" extension with that. Helps keep sand or sediment from clogging it I've seen many of those installed without and they don't last long, every one I've installed with the elbow and extension I have never had an issue with
The well driller/pump installers have always installed check valve at the pump and half way up the pipe for the different wells I have drilled or had to replace pumps in. I would suggest more torque arrestors on the pipe every 50' is what the well driller recommended. Keep pumping the water until it clears up and make sure you treat since the well you pulled the pipe several times and introduced biological contaminates to the well. The place that sold you the pump should be able to tell you what to use.
The output of the generator is small to drive the submersible pump.
Mine uses a clean 240V supply for the 500W pump. Pumped at the first trial.
When I drilled my well I ran it 24/7 for two days before it cleared up.
You should go with a 3 phase inverter controller and it will reduce your amp draw down to a max of 10amps. And when running as low as 3.5amps. They cost some money but saves the life span of the pump and saves money over time. Also great for a off grid system
I got so tired of putting my pump in and out of the well I just started putting them in 55 gallon barrel first.
suggestion... ready to go 10 by 10 well house sturdy enough to hold solar panels. insulated for harsh winters. Include a runoff drain for "OOPS" shelving for batteries and spare parts etc. include limited lighting, a heater set to come on at 40 degrees. have fun. Keep Julie happy! If that river crosses your land put a "mother earth" generator. build a dinky water tower to have a secondary water source use the generator to again supply electric pump etc...
You need a bigger generator! Also, the well needs to run much longer to eliminate brown water.
correct Bud!
If you prime the pump first to avoid the high draw on startup. If there is water in the pipe it won't draw as much. Noticed once it started flowing you meter showed 11.
My grandfather dug a well in our house using his hands and we have been using it for many years, although he did not dig much at first, it had a lot of mud, and then the water quality became excellent ... for the information Our house well in Syria so everything differs
Sounds amazing!
Black pipe and hose clamps. My bump is at 208 FT. schedule 80 PVC with steel couplings. 37 years and going strong. Different pump same pipe.
use your torch and heat the inside of the pipe not the outside.
Always nice when the well guys dig you a trench for the pitless adapter install while they have a machine there, or install it before they lower the last section down 4 ft ... but after 4 long days they may have forgotten ... and yea, even 110v well pump need a large generator ... that pump has to work hard to get that column of water up 500 ft ... they pull a lot of juice, especially on start up ... too little juice and they overheat, causing thermal shut down ... glad you solved the issue ... all part of the well learning curve .... most 230 v systems require a control box to modulate and protect motor and circuits
a motor takes more watts to start than it takes to run, like almost 10 times
Called lock rotor current. Be prepared.
Hello starting current. although that's a long surge for a pump that small. Edit: watched further... because it wasn't starting.
@@MarkSDCA LRC is when the rotor is unable to turn. Starting current is a little different.
A hard working 3 phase engine, takes 4-6 times its rated power to start. More than that and it will barely be able to start.
10 times is unheard off.
Agreed and the lower multiple, obviously it depends on the machine
Please stop saying I picked this video for you to watch when it’s an old video that we have already seen.😂😂🙃🙃We are more interested in your daily and weekly progress, (wish they are sequential and numbered) in that order:) and not go back to the previous videos. Most interested about your clean drinkable water problem or progress. You’re doing a wonderful job regardless of your little mistakes. Quite admirable to see you and your lovely wife along with well adjusted son of yours to dive into a rather difficult and monumental task at hand all by yourselves, in a difficult location with great confidence and cooperation with one another. Truly admirable!!!
She’s truly a Jewel of a woman with great personality and always smiling no matter what. 👍👏 Looking forward to a beautiful and successful completion !
Congratulations, cant do without that water. Such a big leap on the homestead.
Thank you!
Unless you have Brawndo: The Thirst Mutilator.
I used spacers around the downpipe, every 15 or 20 feet, to keep the well wires from rubbing and sanding off the insulation.
Bummer that the water is so muddy, looking forward to seeing how you tackle that obstacle.
Me too! 😂
@@juliejohnson9531 Oh no, I thought that you already had a plan. now I'm really nervous.
@@juliejohnson9531 when they put in my pump, they ran it for 24 hours to clear it up
Julie Johnson it took weeks for our water to clear up running it all day long everyday but we did have the nicest grass that year, we hooked it to 3 sprinklers to go at the same time. They ran directly from the pump as we didnt hook it to a pressure tank til it cleared up🙂
Well That sure seemed deep for a well . I did one 42 years ago and it was 100 feet with water at 25. Don't feel bad that was 40 years ago before regulations. It was back in the cable tool days. they punched the well with a 6 inch spoon type tool. Congratulations. You are there. 500 feet of head with a 220 volt submersible pump WOW. Great patience doing that job.
I just subbed.
🙋♂️ lol
When you plugged it into that 3500watt, I had a feeling it wouldn’t pump.
We had the same issue.
We have a 9500watt just for our well.
Be careful at startup to always have the valve open, otherwise you can “deadhead” the pump.
That’s what we were told.
So glad you got it pumping, now to clean some water 😛
.....wait that doesn’t sound right 😜
We are glad too. What size is your pump?
😂
@@MartinJohnsonOffGridLiving ours is a 3/4 horse I think.
Homestead rescue had it installed. I know it takes a 30amp breaker.
We pull close to 20 gal a minute.
When trying to start/run a big load off of an inverter generator, turn eco throttle off. That'll both help your device and your generator.
Best suggestion to avoid the rusty water issues is : Do NOT Allow them to install the Steel/Iron casing. use PVC instead. 1.) It eliminates the dirty rust water. 2.) It reduces the risk of pump and pipe loss due to lightening strikes burning holes in the metal pipes and damaging the pump. Cleaner water and far less issues down the road. BTW: the PVC Pitiless installation would have been far easier as well. Lessons I did not have to learn the hard way. (We have and old 750 foot Steel/iron well on the farm; dirty water and pipe/pump burn out every couple of years. At least use PVC down pipes, (these are not like the tubing used in this video but rather PVC Pipes manufactured especially for use in wells. They are threaded and install the same as regular 20 foot length steel well down pipes). PVC casings cannot be driven down like steel casings can be so they must be drilled in by a qualified well driller and then properly grouted.
Hi! My name is Andrew and I work for McCullough and Sons Well Drilling.
So the issue of steel vs PVC casing and dirty rust water are not related. That dirty rust water is caused by iron in the water, not the steel the casing. This iron in the water comes from deep down in bedrock or wherever your water is located underground. It’s a mineral that is present in the water whether it’s PVC or steel casing. If there is an orange goopy sloppy gross stuff on the outside of that pipe that you pulled out of the well (that’s called drop pipe), you have what is called “iron bacteria”. It’s a bacteria that gets in the well and feeds on that iron mineral in the water. If that gets inside your pipes it can stop everything up :)
There are also situations where we can’t use PVC drop pipe. PVC drop pipe is used for shallow wells that don’t have a submersible motor above 1/2HP. A 3/4HP pump is pushing the capacity and strength of PVC pipe. The other problem with putting PVC drop pipe down a deep well with a pump larger than a 1/2HP is that when that 3/4HP pump fires up, it generates a massive amount of torque which whips the bendy flexible PVC pipe around inside the well. That can cause your wire to get split or severed. Deep settings generally use steel for this reason.
That’s quite a deep well you have :) 750 feet deep is no joke.
@@monkeybeaver76 What happens with regularity on our 750 deep well is that a lightning strike anywhere near, say within 1200 feet will run through top soil to the well casing while burning holes in the drop pipes and cooking anything in the upper 25 feet of water within the casing to a blackened sludge. The common practice of disinfecting the well does nothing to change this issue. (I'm pretty darn certain the iron is leaching out of the rusty casing walls regardless of what you say.) 750 feet of rusty casings is no joke. In Northern Minnesota known for iron water our PVC well casing only runs 150 feet deep and the drop pipe is also all threaded PVC 100 feet deep. We haven had iron water, bacteria, or lighting, or pump issues with this well, not since the day it was put online 30 years ago. I may NOT be a well driller; I do know what works far better.
I decide to run stell casing vs ovc, in case I ever wanted to go deeper or any work in the hole it would be protected. There are supposed to be 2 more zones of water below my current 104 to 140. One at 250 and one at 300. If at some time inthe future, my family or kids need to go to a deeper zone, a drilll string can right down the casing, but not on PVC in would tear it up and a guy would lose his well.
My well water has orangish tint (from iron), sometimes light grey (from shale). I spent a lot of time and money installing proper filtration to correct the issue. My water comes out the other end (my spigots) without any smell or color, just clear. My well is at about 70 feet so much shallower. My pump is a 240VAC 1/2 horse. Its interesting that some people do 110VAC for a pump. All the pumps I have installed were 240VAC. The video was interesting in respect to the fact you the home owner are installing the well yourself. Nicely done video though.
I think it's gonna work!
Update: Well, then. As a note for future troubleshooting, the time-saving step you missed is ... testing the second pump before install. Also, I'm curious what the electrical specs are on the well. We know that many high-draw appliances (e.g., table saws and refrigerators) have a massive surge at start-up. Did the pump come with that information, or was it only labeled as 1200W?
It didn’t say the LRA or start up amps. Wish it did that would have need helpful.
all the 110 volt pumps use a 15 amp braker, that much more then it needs, a 1 hp 220 volt also uses a 15 amp, that 110 volt will use 8 amps at start, and run on 5
Close the presure side of the pump. Then start the pump. When the pump is running, open the valve. Sometimes this will help the pump startup a little easyer.
The combination with electrical pump and a generator is always tricky. The startup needs a lot of amps
Love the sound effects when tightening! True mountain man!
😄
😂 lots of grunts!
Dont let the pipe come apart at the clamps! I use wire too hold it better in case the clamps come off.They can snAg on a Rock edge.
Keep running the pump the water will clear up it took 2 days for mine.
Nice!
I bought a Kinetico water softener to fix my water rust issue and bonus it doesn't use electricity. Also, have a single filter between the well and the Kinetico. It uses about 7 bags of salt a year and if you buy filters in bulk you can save money. The system is 3 grand.
Should have had them take a scoop out for you with their track hie before they left. For your pitless
yes
I ran mine in Northwest Florida for 24 hours at 30 gallons per minute to get clear water. Mine was only 40 feet deep as we live on a sand island and the Choctawhachee Bay is about 250 feet from the well. Only use it for irrigation for the last 15 years when we hooked up when municipal water was run in the area
Why would you not test run the pump in a barrel of water before going to all the effort of fitting it down the well pipe?
Excitement? Enthusiasm? I've done similar with appliance electrical repair jobs. Hahaha.
I'm so glad you got running water on your homestead! Been watching since the beginning and I felt just as frustrated as you were with the hand dug attempts. Love you guys, Love the content, Keep up the good work!
As a retired Well service worker, I can empathize with you. Pulling a new pump because it does not work is not any fun. I praise you for working in the freezing snow/ice. I can't believe that the well driller did not leave you a "pitless" adapter already installed. I have placed one pump that ran on solar, had a charging system and a battery, ran on 12 volts d.c. The second pump will work, I watched you install the first and you did everything correctly. Good luck with the pump.
I agree with your solar pump. I do think he did a good job putting in the pump. I would have used 1 or 2 more torque arrestors, and 3 flat pump wire and some super 88. And I love the green pipe tape it’s the best. And I would have put some Corine tablets down the well. But that’s just me. I hope it all works out for them.
My pumps required a capacitor starter . they were 240 V but a capacitor helps the pump start because the sudden load on the motor gets stored energy from a cap
depends on the pump.
need capacitor bank for start, after stabilize system hello fron Brazil keep job thank you
talk to your pump vendor and ask about a "soft start" option.
@@PAKOREGON Yup
I use an AC controller on my well, an expensive control box, but it makes 3 phase power and also is variable frequency (softstart) so it starts the 3 phase motor (4 wire) at 30 Hz, and then adjusts the frequency up to get higher RPM and more GPM out of the pump. But the motor and pump are heavier but it doesn't pull so many amps at start up and it doesn't pull as many amps ever because the 3 phase motor is more efficient. My setup will pump 26 GPM with a 1 HP (3 phase) motor and pump, when at 60 Hz and 2 valves wide open (low pressure). I get about 20 GPM at 50 PSI and under 5 amps, but the static level of the water in my well is only about 70 feet down, so less head. But softstart is nice as it maintains a very steady pressure, I use a pentek intellidrive (PID 10) that handles up to 1 HP. I also use schedule 120 PVC to hang the pump on instead of the poly pipe, and 1 1/4 pipe to flow more than 20 GPM. Most houses only need around 8 GPM but I also have irrigation and I'm not off grid.
The generator is not big enough! I have the same pump for the well I drilled.
How do you run it?
It was with a generator then I bought a long extension cord to. A 3500 is not big enough. You said your static water head is 100’? That also adds to the load on the pump. My static water is 15’ to 20’. I built a rug and drilled it myself. Got a few videos if you are interested.
Or the pump is too large. You don't necessarily need to pump at the capacity of the well, especialy when you have a storage tank. You do need enough capacity to overcome 100 foot head. With a storage tank one could pump less water per minute, have less surge but pump a little longer. Those are good lessons for off grid living and good math examples for kids to see how math and science can be used to solve everyday issue. Another example is the difference between the Amp draw of a 120 volt pump versus a 240 volt pump of the same capacity or horsepower.
@@ricklearned1686, the amperage draw is the same, it just splits it across two legs. That is why the wattage of the pump remains the same at low voltage and high voltage.
@@DiamondJim53 You are correct that the power is the same. Perhaps you are confused because a 240 volt circuit uses two breakers? I am using the traditional measurement which most electricians use when measuring the current on a circuit. Martin used a clamp Ammeter on one leg and measured 35 Amps at 120 volts. If Martin were to use a 240 volt motor of the same horsepower (Wattage) he would have measured 17.5 Amps. It doesn't matter which leg, the Amperage is the same. You can can count the Coulombs if you want to make some obscure point. However there is a good reason that large industial equipment often runs at higher voltages. It is more efficient for a number of reasons. Less copper, less power loss to mention a few. In the case of a 240 volt well pump, it is still two wires and half the Amps at the pump for a 240 volt motor than a 120 volt motor. I have switched the leads on many table saw motors and they all run cooler and rip through thicker wood easier when wired for 240 volts. That is why many of those motors are built for two voltages.
You should have tried the pump outside, with a bowl of water before to deepen the pump down in the pit... Maybe it will be easier to troubleshoot the problem... If possible, I think it will be worth try with a simulation first, just to know if the thing I'm going to install is working as expected... Thank you for sharing, I hope manage to fix it!
F.Y.I. Grundfos makes soft start pumps which eliminate a bunch of problems.
Grundfos has always been my go to. They also stand up to all kinds of contamination and weird pH and remediation additives in my environmental remediation/extraction wells.
Thanks for the info. Like a lot of products made today, a few brands really try to stick with top quality materials and quality assembly, and some are a collection of import parts thrown together. It is helpful to know what is a good reliable brand, especially with something like a well pump. Thank again because I will be buying a new pump this summer.
Grundfos is usually stainless steel and you don't wanna use it when you have high iron
WATER is a Must Have so Glad you have it now...
Really enjoyed watching this one, you guys sure kept your cool.
😂 Thanks Angel!
@@juliejohnson9531 you're welcome 😊
if the soil is frozen put a winter mat on the ground the day before
What is that? Never heard of it.
I tie a sky rope on my pump to pull the pump out instead of pulling on the pump pipe and electrical wire.
Do you use a sky hook on it?
Great Fun !!
Something to keep in mind for spring, run your wire in some plastic ( ie; PVC, Pecs whichever is cheaper).. it'll protect wire and later you can pull/add remote start wires for the generator (in the pumphouse) from the house... ( a nice back-up).
Stay Safe
Congratulations,
The color of the first water is not too brown and that's a good indicator! Just let the pump work for 2 hours and you will get a very clean water. 👌
Awesome! Thanks
That is why a lot of pumps that size are 240 volt instead of 120 volt. Voltage goes up and amp on the wire go down. So 32 amps now at 120 volt would be 16 amps on the wire at 240 volt and voltage drop on your 10 gauge wire will be almost not existing, because the resistance issues happen more when you are near the full amp load of the wires capacity.
Fire burns up, that’s why we can have fires on lakes when we go ice fishing lol
Perhaps it's to little to late but for other folks, with a lot of electrical appliances you must allow twice the running amps for start up. This means if the pump runs at 30 amps it may require 60 amps at starting. I learned that when looking for a generator to run my welding gear. It was cheaper to buy a used mobile gas welder. It runs all the tooling the mobile rig needs.
Keep pumping. It'll clear up.
dump a couple jugs of bleach down the well also.could be iron hope not
@@andrewslagle1974 putting bleach down a well isn't a good idea tbh
YES! You installed the hose clamps with the 'heads' of them, on opposite sides of the pipe. If there is going to be any leaks through the plastic pipe under those clamps it will be at the head of the clamp. Installing them with the heads on the opposite sides lessens the problem.
I learned that from the plumbing inspection last year. They are good for something 😂. Truthfully the was a huge help and a really nice guy.
until you get the wellhouse with the purifying system set up, you can purify the water with a still (the thing you make moonshine and other alcoholic beverages with)
Or they can go right to home depot and just connect water purifier direct to there kitchen faucet.
The water should be fine for shower and what not.
@@michaelrunk5930 I don't disagree but the still could be repurposed for other means later.
I'd just drink the water when it comes out of the faucet. We drink rain water and well water all the time. No cancer in my family.... No factory chemical water for us. You need the microscopic rock for good health. Purifying water is for townies...
Yes it should fit by the adapter AT LEAST ONCE YOU REMOVE THE INSIDE FLANGE PORTION which you have to remove anyway to get water to the rest of water line such as the frost proof hydrant and eventually water line to house etc.
If the pump is really pulling that many amps, the wire is sized too small for that length. ALWAYS test your pump in a barrel or tub of water up top before installing to make sure it works. Could have saved yourself returning a perfectly good pump and wasting a lot of time redoing everything. Very interesting but too many adds. Keep up the good work.
The wire is fine, those are starting amps on the starting windings. It is normal, except with an undersized genset the pump stays in start mode and thus the high amps.
Good video. Many years ago a neighbor of mine thought it would be a good idea to sink our own shallow wells for irrigation. Much easier job that yours but it was still a difficult 2 weekends to sink 4 wells (for 4 homes). Your video brought back some good memories.
Your determination is admirable.
Marty, when you said that about Julie's job being cute was hard, I cringed. Good save though. Julie your expression was priceless 😂
Just fired up our rainwater system and have 4000 gallons to start with and more rain on the way. I feel ya, water is a big game changer!
Not uncommon when you first start you well. Buddy of mine ran his well for four days before it cleared up.
My friend you have to, gauge The wire for The length. Also there is something called I2 when the fuse is drawing more then it can handle it will fall down automatically. So for example you have a 16 amp fuse i2 over her in Europe is 1,3 16*1,3 = 20,8 amps if the current is higher then this the circuit will fall down protecting the wire from burning 👍👍😊
The problem is you don’t get good at something until after you’ve already done it!
Ya'll are amazing! Love seeing your beautiful family working together to build family home/life!!
That's cool, at least there's water
So true!
👍👍
Look up Lakos sandmaster filters. Buy a stainless steel one. They use centrifugal force to essentially throw the sand and grit to the outside of the filter housing. Then there is a purge valve at the bottom - you manually flush out the sediment say once a week. I would have your water tested to see if you need an acid neutralizer and a water softener. These would go in next, in that order. The final filter in the system would be something like a Rusco filter with a purge valve at the bottom. This has a removable cleanable filter element. Of course, the other thing you need is a pressure tank. I like Well-x-trol. This would be the second thing in the system after the sandmaster filter. Fun Stuff! And congratulations on getting all that hard work done!
I died on the inside 3 times while watching this. Pretty sure I'll never be the same again.
Great job on the well pump. To clear up your water.... run your well pump .....fuel up your generator and just run water ... eventually the water will start to clear up. Basically you need to clear out the mud..... just run the pump and it should start to run clear.
Reminds me of Korea 1967 winter. Ground so frozen that we could barely chip it.
What about the days of our siege of Stalingrad... we hardly had any drinkable water but ice.
Reminds me of 6 months every year. You haven't seen frozen ground since 1967?
We used to stack them and use them as sandbags
The idea of the none return valve is quite good to keep water in the pipeline when the pump stops. Or you will have to always bleed the system off air.
Just curious , with all the money you spent on the well, you could have asked the guys to install your pump.
Aww, it's more fun and instructive to do it yourself!
@@briansmith8967 you are right
That made me tired just watching you guys. But, the great satisfaction you get having done a great job...priceless.
When you start up a centrifugal pump for the first time, it has almost no back-pressure to overcome as the discharge pipe is empty. This means that for a short period of time (as the pipe fills) the flowrate that the pump is delivering will be very high. The motor current is more-or-less proportional to the volumetric flow through the pump and will therefore be very high until there is some back pressure and the flowrate significantly falls. When you are down to a normal operating flowrate then the motor current will be a lot less.
As an aside, it is not well known that when you run a centrifugal pump against a closed valve then the motor current falls to a minimum, when you open up the valve then the flow gets going and the motor current goes up.
It looks like you need to install some type of in-line sump filter somewhere between the pump and water softener, if you are using a water softener.
I have an in-line filter made by Aqua-Pure and it uses replaceable filter cartridges (Part number AP110) to clean debris from my drinking water. My well is down 420 feet and this filter system works out very well for me. I hope something like this a solution for you as well.
Good job xx
It looks like that was a lot of work, glad you got it figured out. That is a fairly long run for 110V pump, you going to need a larger gauge wire or the pump is not going to last very long. You just can't look at the wire table to determine the size of the wire as you would for sizing your breaker to the #15 wire in the house. That figure is for safety and heating determination only. You need to calculate the voltage loss at your maxim current based on the cable resistance. Your 120 volts at the generator is going to be more like 80 or 90V or lower at pump startup. Also remember a 100' well has 200' of cable got to figure both the line and neutral resistances as additive. You should be looking for at least a 220V pump or even better a 3 phase pump with a VFD (variable frequency drive) type pump controller. The 3phase with controller has the advantage because there is little starting surge or torque as the pump are ramped up slowly. They can monitor the pump load and adjust the RPM and power accordingly based on the water delivery requirement. This is the same inverter technology that makes the new variable speed compressor AC/heat pump units so efficient. The other function you need is the ability to shut the pump down if the water level falls below the pump, the motors are water cooled and don't last long pumping air. The controllers provide that function as well.
Good luck
I’m going with the info in the manufacturers installation manual.
I don't know your generator, but since it is revving up quite a bit when you plug in the pump, I would guess it is in eco-mode. Turn that off, so it is running at a much higher RPM before you plug the pump in.. Then it might work with the small one.
For the people who do not know. There are several factors when choosing a well pump and power supply. Well pumps are sized by the amount of lift (head) required. Lift is the distance between the top of the well (to make easy) and the water level that the pump will be operating. In this case the "well" was at 500+ feet, the static water level was at 94', and I believe that the pipe installed was 194' giving the pump 100' of water above it given the static water level of 94'. In addition, unless the water run is down hill and the highest discharge point is below the top level of the well, the pump needs additional head capacity to provide water at a pressure (PSI) that is acceptable to the user. Some people think that 20 PSI is great, some people want 100 PSI so that they don't wait forever. "Normal" is in the 40-60PSI range. More pressure equals bigger pump and more power required to run it. Ideal would be to put the well at the top of the hill, your house at the bottom and let the fall (pressure built up by water flowing down hill) provide the pressure. The problem is the initial cost to drill the well at the top of the hill will be greater, assuming there is actually water under the top of the hill or that you actually have a "hill" to be on top of. Pay money now or pay money later over time.
The starting load is always 150-200% of the running load depending on how much water (head) is on top of the pump. Running load is determined by how much head the pump has to overcome pumping the water to its destination. Head is a function of the level the pump is at in the well, pump to top of the well PLUS any up hill flow required from the well to the discharge point of the water. The pump has to be sized for the total amount of head required plus an additional amount required to supply adequate pressure at the point where the water is being used. Example if the pump will pump 100 feet of head and your pipe is straight up 100 feet the water will flow out the top of the pipe at the pressure of a bad drinking fountain, if you cut the pipe at the 50' mark you will have good working pressure. The pump has to be sized to provide adequate pressure, usually 20 PSI or more, at the highest point in the water system.
If you can, always get a pump that runs on 240 volts, the starting load (amps) will be 1/2 (more or less) than a 120 volt pump. Also the wire size is smaller for a 240 volt circuit than a 120 volt circuit. Always size the pump for 20-30% more head than required if you can afford it. More head capacity, even if not used, will provide more pressure at the discharge point. If you can always size the wire larger than required to reduce line losses. If the wire required is 12 gauge try to use a 10 gauge or 8 if the well is very deep. The extra cost will pay for itself in the long run. More so with a 120 volt pump than a 240 Volt pump.
Side note the static water level is a function of the depth of the overall well and the ground pressure on the water at that depth which forces the ground water up to a "static" level which will be maintained as long as the pump is NOT pumping. When the pump is working, given X as the static water level, a recharge rate of 10 gallons per minuet, and the overall amount of water pumped the static water level will either stay the same or temporary lower. There is about 1 gallon of water in every foot of 6" pipe. So if you use 1 gallon of water every 1 minuet the static water level will not change much. So if your well produces 10 gallons of water per minuet and you are using 10 gallons of water per minuet the static water level will not change much and will return to the normal static level quickly. If you are using 20 gallons per minuet and your well recharges at 10 gallons per minuet you will run out of water and have to wait for the well to catch up. Never run your pump dry even if the manufacturer says you can.
The pump doesn't know what the recharge rate of the well is. All it knows is when the pump is on it pumps as hard as it can and when the pump is off it doesn't pump at all. What then happens is if you have 100 gallons of water in the pipe between the normal water static level and the pump then if you pump 100 gallons of water at one time the pump will be out of water and not able to pump more water until more water flows into the well (recharge rate). What happens to the water level depends on the pumping rate of the pump, the restrictions in the line, and the recharge rate in this case expressed in gallons of water per minuet. If your pump and pipe restrictions can pump water at 20 gallons of water per minuet your well will "run out" of water until the well can catch up after the pump is not running. If your recharge rate is more or equal to the discharge rate then your well never runs out of water. The water in the pipe between the normal static water level and the pump acts like a buffer to help smooth out the recharge rate and the discharge rate so that you don't "run out" of water. Every well is different, some will never know, some will learn the hard way about recharge rates. Poor wells are generally more about the recharge rate and not the quality of the water.
Unless your well recharges at 5 gallons per minuet or more you will learn how to conserve water use quickly. 3 gallons per minuet is a bare minimum for drinking and washing.
Install stainless steel wire to the pump so that you do not rely on the pipe to pull the pump. Just think about all of those joints in the pipe when you are pulling it back up. Fishing a fallen pump out of the well is a miserable job.
This person knows a lot about this, I have worked in the pump business for almost 20 years, he is correct.
@@scottwallen461 Thanks for the comment Scott. It is good to know that at least 2 people read, I assume, the whole post so that it wasn't a total waste of time even if one of them already knew the information. I must have been board that day to write that much.I guess it is one of those subjects that unless you give the broad overview it is a waste of time to give the readers digest version.
pump the well until it clears and then for 1 hr after it clears, and then it will still a bit colored for a period of time until everything settles underground. Also suspend the pup with the rope not the plastic pipe.
why do you want to hang the dog ? ;-)
pumping water from under in the long run will damage the area
Also it is best to run the electric wire inside of plastic water pipe to protect it from jagged edges.
Did you learn how to bench test before installing?
Just something for you to think about I hope you changed out the galvanized pipe fittings you installed down at your pump they should of been brass. I think someone said you also need wire guards up your pipe. You also could of drilled out the top of your pitless adapter and well cap and placed your hydrant down in the well pipe, maybe you were going to move your hydrant later to another place. Just tossing thing out at you as I did for my well. Good luck. ~ Francis
I read that as "Wife is happy that husband isn't" I was like "typical"...
Glad to see i was wrong and forgot to how to read..... Good luck!!