Old Iron King lore

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 41

  • @SaintHierophant
    @SaintHierophant 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    This channel is criminally underrated. This is what we need.

  • @jonathankkennedy
    @jonathankkennedy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I really appreciate that you even acknowledge the existence of dark souls 2. Most people didn't seem to understand it or like it, and they always just write it out and pretend it doesn't exist when talking about lore.

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Thanks Jonathan! I love DS2 and I think DS3 has so many lore connections with DS2.
      It saddens me that many pretend the lore of DS2 doesn't exist.

  • @luke77416
    @luke77416 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    By far the best lore videos out there. Hail our Lord of lore

  • @minespatch
    @minespatch 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I noticed something strange today in my gameplay today. Went to Shalqor to get the red eye ring before mirror knight, talked to her, and noticed two words given italicized letters. "Ichorous Earth". Looking it up later on reddit thread, Iron king is named "melted earth" as you said later in the video.
    Thanks for pointing out the eagle statues! I observed them and was curious about the Egyptian look to them.
    Very curious about Ceaseless discharge theory.

  • @serraramayfield9230
    @serraramayfield9230 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    I find your methods of telling lore and cross-referencing sources to be very unique and well written, though I do admit having a sort of visual web to illustrate how these descriptions and/pieces of dialogue relate to one another would help others follow along in the videos.
    Another thing that I think could assist the exchange of ideas is to highlight portions of the original Japanese texts you are reading from along with a corresponding romanization, such as the Nihon-shiki or Hepburn methods.
    Based on your enunciation I am assuming that you are a Japanese native who has learned English but please correct me if I am wrong.
    Otherwise I greatly appreciate what you are doing to try and bridge the gap between the Japanese and English communities as the latter has much misunderstanding and conflict due to the dominance of one particular loretuber in the Anglosphere. You probably know who I'm talking about.
    Regardless, I must ask...do you use Discord?

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Hi Serrara, thanks for the great feedback. Still trying to figure the best method to present the lore so feedback like this is greatly appreciated. I think what I'll do is underline or highlight the Japanese parts I'm reading off of and maybe make a Romaji version of the item description or something like that.
      Oh, I'm a Japanese Canadian. I have odd accents in both English and Japanese depending on if I'm thinking in Japanese or English. lol
      And yes, I really want to fix all the misconceptions due to mis-translations existing in the Anglo-sphere of the Dark Souls community.
      I've heard of discord before but I don't believe I've used it before. I'm assuming a new chat that's similar to ventrilo?

  • @vasylpark2149
    @vasylpark2149 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    It makes more sense that Gwyn is the soul not ceaseless. you get Blinding Bolt or dragonslayer great bow from the Old King Soul, that's more closely linked than ceaseless is.

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I do agree Ceaseless is a bit of a stretch and Gwyn is the likely candidate as of now.

    • @alyseleem2692
      @alyseleem2692 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​​​​@@ChannelYoshimitsuxcuse me. I know it's been a while, but I had a very strange idea, and I don't know if it's possible, but,
      Could it be the Chosen Undead?
      I only thought of this because I'm pretty certain nobody remembers the Chosen Undead's name and because they're the one holding the Gwyn, Lord Of Cinder soul. Obviously, them linking the Fire would make this seem unlikely, except Gwyn was also still there after linking the Fire, albeit a husk of himself. If anyone inherited Gwyn's soul as the " Old King Soul" before the Iron King, it's the Chosen.
      If the Old Iron King was alive since the time of the original game, it could be plausible to say he ruled for a time immediately after the linking of the Fire by the Chosen Undead, and was one of the tradition of " monarchs" to follow their example. Gather power, attempt to curb the Undead Curse( one way or another) and " peer into the essence of the soul",( he obviously failed that one) .
      I know this is very unlikely, and depends on array of assumptions,but I'm strangely dissatisfied with the Iron King's lore. Brume Tower simple looks like the Kiln too much, and the Iron King having Gwyn's soul isn't something I'd easily ignore. Nadalia essentially became the first reference to Ash in the series, but how she did that isn't exactly explained. Did she try to join the King in death by, I dunno, linking the Fire? Did Brume Tower once hols one of those bonfires which allowed one to Link The Fire?
      This would obviously happen after Alonne left...or died.
      Something happened, and I can't quite figure out what it was.

  • @t6y6fihu8hy9jjuhi
    @t6y6fihu8hy9jjuhi หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think that what the Steel Helmet actually imply is that the Berenike Knights became part of Lordran, of that land that was once known as Lordran, and later was known as Drangleic, that is why it doesn't say Berenike Kingdom or any thing related to the Old Iron King.
    If they are meant to be from the knights of the Old Iron King, their kingdom would still be remembered, just like Venn and Alken.
    That explain the ongoing use of the black steel throughout the series, DS2's theme is all about old kingdoms that had fallen and new ones that had arouse in its place, and how the old kingdom's names get lost to time.
    Drangleic happened in the same place that once was Lordran, that is why the flame converge there and attract the cursed undead, this is one of the big themes on all three games, the undead being attracted to the first flame, to a kingdom far to the north. Drangleic is also said to be "far to the north", same as Lordran and Lothric, all three games happened in the same place that once the first flame emerged in the world.

  • @Anon-me6gf
    @Anon-me6gf 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Mind blown on those paintings, I thought they were somewhat random.
    I'm more on the side of Gwyn being melted earth, as why would ceaseless discharge have a taboo on his name, as he is, well, nameless.
    Disagree on Berenike knights and fallen knights being part of the Old Iron King's troops : for the former, the order was already done by the time DS1 takes place (much like Balder); while they exist outside Lordran they do not seem to hail from a robust country like Carim or Catarina, they are painted as only being a band of warrior-knights who wound up undead. More so, the set in DS2 is a "relic" which can be understood as being even more ancient than the Old Iron King, and only Tarkus was famed for is Black Iron. For the latter, we encounter one alive near the Cathedral of the Deep in DS3 guarding the Paladin Ashes... npc placement is significant so it has to have more to do with the fall of the Cathedral than with the Old Iron King.
    Lore theory on Alken and Venn :
    Would it be english or japanese, I think the game is implying that the "forbidden love" is actually incestuous love between actual twins.
    If Alken and Venn were founded by the same man, then both kingdoms were once one, equal parts of an unified land.
    Before conquest, it is first kin that can inherit a kingdom, so at the king's fall, the children would inherit it. Usually the oldest. However, the kingdom split in two which means succession was blurry : how can than be ? Twins. Male and female, children of the same age, perhaps an even more complex case if you account for rules regarding sex based inheritance; in the end, some sided with one, others with the second, thus "rivalry and spite".
    This is supported by the fact that the bell keepers refer both the King of Alken and Queen of Venn as prince and princess because they were, once, to them, at a young age, when the land was unified under their father the king. And, despite being brother and sister, they were lovers, thus the "Forbidden Love" which is incestuous love. The twin towers, twin servants, and twin bells reinforce the twin children motif.
    Hmm... so it is somewhat less a matter of translation than of perspective.

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I'm super happy FromSoft put in those paintings. Gave me lots of ideas for lore to think and research. :)
      With the melted earth and ceaseless discharge, I do agree, it's a long shot. I kinda threw it out as a possibility.
      For the Berenike Knights, my theory is under the assumption Tarkus and the Berenike Knights are from the same country to make the Black Iron connection. But I also theorized the Tarkus origin to Drangleic due to Tsorig. He wears the Black Iron set, wields the Fume Ultra Greatsword. Uses the shield of Tarkus and fought the Lloyce Knights. I personally saw this to pointing Tarkus/Tsorig to Drangleic.
      I also believe the Old Iron King was around since the days of the gods and Lordran. His name should be the Ancient Iron King as he is 鉄の古王).
      I'm gonna have to look into the connection with the Cathedral of the Deep though.
      I hadn't thought about the possibility of an incestuous love situation regarding Alken and Venn.
      It would explain the forbidden love aspect between the Prince and Princess. Love this theory! :)

    • @Anon-me6gf
      @Anon-me6gf 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ChannelYoshimitsu Yeah I do agree with you on Tarkus and the Berenike Knights being from the same country ; my main gripe is at which point in time were the Berenike Knights "part of the same Land that would become Drangleic" and what was their actual status ; were they independent ? did they disappear infamously and became relics of history ? Did they survive as an order all the way to serve the Old Iron King ? Or were they already serving him for all this time, simply at this point (in DS1)The Old Iron King wasn't a major player ? all of those are unanswerable questions really... its all up to the narative you like the best !
      I'm leaning more towards them being independent ; besides the Black Iron connection there isn't enough evidence to suggest they served the Old Iron King.
      Although thinking about it now, in the simplest of terms, "Knights" are Knights because they answer to Nobility, therefore Kings and Queens to appoint them, so your theory makes a lot a sense !
      To me, Tsorig is separate from Tarkus : he seems more of a pillager of sorts. Known for the Black Iron Set but we know he's not the original owner, same case with the shield, and he breaks fingers to take rings ... and the Fume Greatsword was so heavy it had no owner until he came around. Then there's the whole "Tark..." debacle in DS2 (Man-Scorpion) which might be why From named him Tsorig despite the Black Iron set.
      Same feeling with the Paintings ; your videos with the added Japanese corrections are really making me look at the Old Royalty/Royalty/Deities Lore in another light.

  • @eyesontheinside5776
    @eyesontheinside5776 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I still want to congratulate you on this amazing lore video. I cant put into words enough how thankful I am for someone like you who makes the effort to give dark souls 2 the dignified and thorough lore analysis it needs. It gets way too overshadowed.

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thank you my friend. For me, Dark souls 2 has always been my favorite so I'm hoping to bring more lore videos related to Dark Souls 2.

  • @Jonas-ob2sh
    @Jonas-ob2sh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I don't buy your Ceaseless Discharge theory since all other Great soul owners are heavily changed by the original owners; Freja can shoot laser similar to Seath, Lost sinner has chaos bug, Rotten uses dark magic and looks similar to Nito, so wouldn't it make more sense if Iron king was changed to this monster because of Gwyn's soul?
    Also, the term "demon" is used much more loosely in Dark Souls 2 (it's more like alternative term for a monster), like covetous demon and demon of song and both clearly have no relation to chaos demons in appearance (their designs are meant to be more like parasites like in DS1 and DS3).
    If the term is used loosely then we can assume that Smelter demon and Old iron king's demonic form doesn't necessarily mean that it's related to chaos demons.

  • @umukzusgelos4834
    @umukzusgelos4834 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ceaseless Discharge being the Melted Earth makes somewhat sense, since Magma also seems to be a sign of Chaos
    and the Iron Keep and it´s surroundings contain quite a number of Demons actually, with the Covetous Demons Song even bearing some resemblance to the Bed of Chaos theme
    the Old Iron King himself even seems to share some characteristics of a Chaos Demon, only one comprised of Metal
    one thing that would have been interesting to mention here is the Pyromancer Eygil, who allegedly had the large Bull Statue commissioned and sought to give Fire a Will of it´s own...
    Now, the Kiln at the Base of Brume Tower may not have been used to link the Fire, but what if Eygil went and recreated the Procedure, the Witch of Izalith one performed to create a Bed of Life for Demon´s?
    just a theory of mine though

    • @juromori
      @juromori 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      What if Eygil was the Lost Sinner? Remembering that in Japanese The Sinner doesn't have a specific gender.

    • @umukzusgelos4834
      @umukzusgelos4834 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@juromori Could be, she does have link to pyromance after all with her handcuffs increasing the strength of Pyromancy

    • @juromori
      @juromori 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@umukzusgelos4834 She has pyromancers to help her in NG+ too. And obviously, the Chaos bug in her eye

  • @elemama07
    @elemama07 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I love your video
    my new favorite lore channel

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank You! Will try my best to release great lore content!

  • @brendanmuller7301
    @brendanmuller7301 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Just stumbled on this channel I hope you start making videos again

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm back and will be uploading lore videos more frequently.

    • @brendanmuller7301
      @brendanmuller7301 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ChannelYoshimitsu Thank you

  • @RoosterCogburnPhD
    @RoosterCogburnPhD 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It feels like we basically got an entirely different story from the Japanese versions.

  • @josecarlospadilla9883
    @josecarlospadilla9883 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    On the DS3 Design Works one of the pages has the illustration of the 6 paintings you mention

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Very much indeed. :)
      It was what gave me an idea for starting the lore video series based off those paintings.

  • @ElSultan98
    @ElSultan98 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    AaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAA Dark souls 2 my favourite of the 3 games, good job yoshimitsu

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Thanks Helios! We share the same love for Dark Souls2.

  • @core-nix1885
    @core-nix1885 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Seems like chaos is connected to "Sun and Steel", specifically the bit about words and erosion.
    Chaos Storm is found in an Iron Keep chest. [there is also Immolation (see: Immolation Tinder) and Flame Swathe (see: Profaned Flame) in Belfry Sol]
    Quelaag (keylog?), BoC and Ceaseless all have script flowing from them.
    DS2 Hollows have words scrawled on them to perhaps prevent or perhaps embrace this erosion.

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hmmmm. Interesting. Some thought provoking theories there my friend.

    • @core-nix1885
      @core-nix1885 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ChannelYoshimitsu Honestly, there's a twin theme of erosion and erection all throughout Dark Souls.
      Arches are a good example of both, natural vs man-made.
      For erections in particular, there's Heide, with the eroded structures juxtaposed with the little levers that rise out of the ground.
      Straid waking up "stiff".
      Mytha trying to restore her husband's "affection" (gilligan words it like an innuendo).
      All the "upthrust" spells (GL sword dance, pillars of light, fire tempest)
      Gotthard
      The OG Xanthous Crown
      "Unyielding sword of Lothric's Prince, rise if you would."
      Anastasia literally means "to stand back up"
      Gael goes from "slouched" to "erect" when he realises the blood of the Dark Soul. (Gehrman does something similar, but that's more of a reference to Dr Strangelove)
      And I personally think the primordial crystal resembles a hummingbird with an erection but that's a bit of an outlandish idea.

    • @core-nix1885
      @core-nix1885 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ChannelYoshimitsu Sorry for being inarticulate.
      It's hard to express what I mean by "words and erosion".
      But there's hidden proof of this theme in Drangleic Castle.
      When King's Gate has Bonfire Intensity > 1, the wooden chest in the yellow (xanthous?) acid pool goes from 3 x Corrosive Urn to 3 x Corrosive Urn, 1 x Titanite Slab.

  • @eyesontheinside5776
    @eyesontheinside5776 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    So what you are saying is... the prince of alken and the princess of venn are their own separate entities who also have taken their respective thrones during their lifetimes - the iron king though has his origin in heide and created his kingdom in alken, met alonne, took brume tower from venn and solidified himself as ruler of whatever the name of his kingdom was.
    So what about the love triangle? Who was the iron king in love with, that led mytha to be so jealous? Was it nadalia, he didnt even know of her existence?
    Also who is the prince then? and why is his belfry inside the iron kings keep?
    But we have to agree on the fact that the founding land of alken and venn has to be heide.

  • @josecarlospadilla9883
    @josecarlospadilla9883 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video, I'm wondering since you are cross referencing the three games what do you make of Dark Souls 2 and the fact that Miyazaki didn't direct the game? Some people in the community don't take it as much as an important entry in the games lore, but I wonder what is your take?
    Also I really find it interesting knowing what the sequels expand or reveal about the first game's lore.

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Thanks Jose! I think it's a shame that a good part of the community tries to ignore the importance of dark souls2 in relation to the lore. Although Mr.Miyazaki didn't direct ds2, Mr.Miyazaki trusted Mr.Tanimura to direct it.
      And I do believe dark souls 3 has many lore connections with ds2 lore.

  • @cipher48
    @cipher48 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    hey man, you made a mistake when reading the strength ring: you put the ring of blades on the screen instead the former.

    • @ChannelYoshimitsu
      @ChannelYoshimitsu  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Oh oops! Thanks for pointing that out. I'll be more careful going forward. :)