I like the comment about "why not just buy one?" When you have your toys (CNC Mill) you want to play with it. It is not about being cheap or better, it is more about making it and having it on somebody's bike or such just adds a bit. As machinists sometimes we just gotta make something..even if it does not serve a purpose sometime. I love making things on my Tormach, despite the fact that I can buy it from an engineering supplies cheaper. But who cares, i made it!
The problem with people who say “just buy it” is that they don’t realise that the people who create the things that they buy are people like you!! Someone’s got to create stuff and use their skills.
Nice job. I've been programming for 35 years and I'll tell you one thing I have found; You give the same job and equipment to 10 different programmers and they will all come up with a slightly different program. (And according to them, theirs will be 'The Best')
That was beautiful! I just bought a four axis router, I'll never be able to do work like that with it but I can't wait to become skilled enough to make my own beautiful parts.
I am far from the consummate authority on CNC milling, but I have to comment. With all due respects. In your early operations, you spend a lot of time milling a deck around that square pin, then you mill away the majority of that deck in the very next op. I call that precision scrap. As for that hurricane cyclonic slot milling, not only does that beat the balls off the machine, you actually travel 4 times farther to finalize your slot. I've seen a lot of guys programming with fusion 360 use that technique. It may work in some circumstances, but I'm not a fan. I like the pegs. Nice job. I'll be curious to hear how long they stay horizontal as the aluminum sees repeated use.
Wow this is really cool, I'm a 2nd year machinist running a fadal. I have a coworker who always talks up the haa's, cool too see one in action! Cool prototype!
Looks great, the TM1 really is an awesomely capable machine for the money and since it can run on single phase power we could all run one in our own backyard shops. keep up the great work. Gerald
Very nice work. The high speed toolpaths are sweet, looked like you were using trochoidal paths. I don't understand why people feel the need to bash on how you did something that they most likely couldn't do themselves. Keep up the good work brother!
Jon that is awesome I have never seen some thing like that I have always wondered when folks talk about CNC parts I had a understanding but I had never had an opportunity to see it happen Thanks and Thanks again ;O)
Very cool looking foot pegs! I'd be interested to see how long they last, they'd look awesome anodized! I would make one suggestion, you should kill the coolant and use an airblast for removing chips. The coatings that are on the tools are made so that when the tool is hot it activates, spaying it with coolant doesn't allow the coating to work properly and when a hot end mill or insert is sprayed with coolant, it causes micro fractures and will kill your tool life over time. I've been selling carbide tooling for a long time and I have few if any customers that mill any material with coolant. Here's tip If you run a tool too fast and it gets all galled up with aluminum, soak the tool overnight in toilet bowl cleaner, it will come out the next day as good as new ;) thanks for posting your work!
Hi. That is a Renishaw probe. It is linked to the machine via an electronic eye, and it will feed position information into the machine via macro programs. The first macro that you saw was it finding the exact center of stock stock, and feeding the coordinate into the machine as the G54 home location. Thanks for watching.
Very nice. The TM-1 is an amazing machine and the DT-1 can really get crazy with HSM. Everyone is an armchair programmer here, for sure. Of course most CAM posts can be tweaked to improve tool life or trim cycle time. But spending 20 minutes tweaking to trim 20 seconds of cycle isn't always worth it. All depends on if you are making 20 parts or 20,000.
looked great i am starting to go to school next month on how to use G Code for the Hass cnc milling machine. we started a class 2 months ago but stopped for the summer it only has 5 students in it and is being taught by a master cnc machinist programmer. future looks great!!
Nice part. Little tip, the drill bird nesting can be stopped by increasing the feed rate or lowering the spindle speed. Both create a heavier chip which tends to break shorter. And on the high speed pocketing. Seems like that would put a lot of excess stress on the ball nuts?
Sometimes that's the case when you're prototyping a part. This was the second set I'd ever done, and there were lots of changes between this set and the first, and just as many since this was finished. Thanks for watching.
Looks like a great process. My only criticism is the high speed steel drills. But that's only if you're trying to make some quantity of them. If they're just for you it would be hard to justify carbide drills. Excellent work, thanks for posting.
Hi. Right on both accounts. I've since substantially reduced the peck depth on the pre-drill, and reduced the feed and increased the stepover on the roughing to reduce servo loads. Thanks for watching!
Awesome!! Here in mexico, that service it`s too expensive and hard to find :( I see it´s made in a Home Depot! wooow, that kind of facilities are what make progress to a country. Congrats Jon!!!
Crazy number of steps had to be done correctly. All the manual repositioning, and getting the Code correct and matching... impressive.. What is the principle behind the probe? Is it made using some strain gauges - like a load cell, Or is it wired to close a circuit on contact? I assume the ball radius and flexibility are selected to close the circuit at the center of the spindle? I'm trying to experiment with DIY probing. Made a strain gauge probe - it is too sensitive to work anywhere near to the stepper motors. Magnetic fields are too strong...
A big aluminum block plus a high-tech machine and a long time for machining. but only one footrest for motorbikes. Is it worth the money for rice bowl?
Nick Bultman Depends on the price point. Billet aluminium is stronger than cast due to the way its forged. So you can buy Billet CNC footpegs and you can buy cast ones, price difference is like $250 a set vs $100 a set, roughly.. But if you look up people who have done home foundry work on youtube and look at the quality of it once milled vs the quality of these and the difference is night and day.I didn't understand this until I started milling and when you cut something like 6071 or 7075 vs cutting up a cast piece, it literally falls off like butter..
Just a hobby. Learned mostly via trial and error, plus whatever I could find on the internet (which is almost nothing). Program & operate. Can't effectively do either without knowing a thing or two about the other.
Before Anybody starts emailing saying I don't know what I'm talking about I spent 15 years at deckel maho as an applications engineer and the last 5 years @ WFL on the apps HAAS are by far the cheapest most fragile machines out their
i agree i ran a haas lathe for 4 yrs set up operator constantly had to comp the machine if it was a plus or minus one dimension kinda lame, but i love the control! my boss was like go back to school for programming and I was like why? I can point to point g code on a lathe for the most part but no one does that, there is no time. I worked for tredegar molded products building plastic injection molds manually vertical mills, lathes, surface grinders, jig grinders, and bores. Im now just trying to learn cnc, way different thought process. I dont have to square a block so im kinda struggling w the fact that i have no one to offer help in the milltronics department.
Haha. It cracks me up to hear everyone screeming about the speed of feed. It's OBVIOUSLY been sped up. same kind of people that comment on lack of coolant in promo videos. It for display. You have to consider certain allowances. Good work btw. Quite a bit of work on a 3 axis. :)
Hey everyone. Re: the seemingly high feed rates, keep in mind that parts of this video are sped up to keep you from succumbing to death via boredom. Re: other manufacturing methods like die casting etc., keep in mind this is a one-off part! This is the first and only set of these that have ever been (and maybe will ever be) made. CNC machining from billet is the only way to go for a prototype like this! Re: buying commercial pegs: these are MUCH bigger than a normal footpeg. They're designed to accommodate someone in a wide snow boot, not in a riding boot or shoe. Thanks for watching!
cncguru777 Spindle speed maxed at 4000 for most or all tools (surface speed still too low). The long tool is a Cormorant 390 (I think). Used a DOC of about 0.05" and a feed rate of 140ipm for all of the roughing stuff. Pretty standard rates for everything else. Chip load of 0.004" or so on the 1/2" tooling and 0.015" on the 1/4".
Jon I cast and it costs me about $1500 to set up and I can get just as good accuracy. Casting equipment is cheaper than milling. Milling is the conduit from CAD to casting. You can cast items in a single piece that can't be milled etc. have a look at it. Its worth investigating.
This is very interesting, I'm starting mechanical engineering and I still don't know why they can't tech us how to operate cnc.. thanks for the upload.
Nice work there! Im atm working with the Mazak Integrex 300 ....I love to Watch these kinda vids to compare what i can do with my maschine and only using my dialog programming without cam´work added to it..n this piece i Think is pretty easy to do with just a little iso prog added...keep more vids coming:)
i have done a new piece at work ...its not as many angles as this,but its done in one process ,but im gonna upload it in the future n u will c some cool things,,for the first its Stainless steel *not the trickiest materials in the wide range of Stainless steels its the 2302 ,i dunno the materialnumber in usa*for the secondly ..lol...someone miscalculated the length of the materials (me) so i almost didnt manage to set it up cause of the shorth length to grasp the piece on..sorry for my bad gramma n Spelling..but i cant upload before hearing with my boss so i dont do a blunder in anyway..u know what i mean:)
And btw i know it sounded pretty cocky of me n it wasnt my meaning i can c that this piece took some serious time n effort to do...my gramma aint the best...i was trying to say that with my mazak dialog programming i can do some amasing Shapes with Little effort put in to it:)but the dialog is restricted to only 3 axles working at the same time,but with cam i can have 5 axles working at the same time:)
Jon, nice work and nice job programming. Pay no mind to the haters questioning your methods. I am a CNC Machinist and Programmer as well and have been doing this for 15 years. Are you using Mastercam? The trochoidal cuts in the slots are a LOT faster than drilling and slotting.
That feed was definitely a little quick considering the tight toolpath radius. In later revisions of the code I reduced the feedrate and increased the stepover.
Awesome to watch the CNC process in action, I love this kind of stuff. I'm currently in the planning stage of building a cnc mill for my garage, but I'm not sure if I want a gantry style or knee style machine. Any advice on pro's/con's of each style? Thanks :)
I like the comment about "why not just buy one?"
When you have your toys (CNC Mill) you want to play with it. It is not about being cheap or better, it is more about making it and having it on somebody's bike or such just adds a bit.
As machinists sometimes we just gotta make something..even if it does not serve a purpose sometime.
I love making things on my Tormach, despite the fact that I can buy it from an engineering supplies cheaper. But who cares, i made it!
You said it Sir! there's certain pleasure as an Inventor, designing and creating things that works and helps people or just for the fun it's awesome!
Totally agree!!
Need a tool, make a tool.
@@jonathanflores3748 .. Kiiikwkuv
The problem with people who say “just buy it” is that they don’t realise that the people who create the things that they buy are people like you!! Someone’s got to create stuff and use their skills.
beautiful work of CNC. couldn't take my eyes of the whole process
I have watched a lot of videos but this has them all beat for being the most satisfying to watch. Its actually calming to watch. Wierd I know! Thanks
You're the king of taking small depths of cut.
I had a TM-1 when I first started. That thing was so cheap and it ran production everyday and never let me down. That's a nice prototype part.
Nice job. I've been programming for 35 years and I'll tell you one thing I have found; You give the same job and equipment to 10 different programmers and they will all come up with a slightly different program. (And according to them, theirs will be 'The Best')
Really nice work mate . Quite therapeutic watching it
That was beautiful! I just bought a four axis router, I'll never be able to do work like that with it but I can't wait to become skilled enough to make my own beautiful parts.
Dynamic tool paths are so scary! Yet so effective! Good work
I am far from the consummate authority on CNC milling, but I have to comment. With all due respects. In your early operations, you spend a lot of time milling a deck around that square pin, then you mill away the majority of that deck in the very next op. I call that precision scrap. As for that hurricane cyclonic slot milling, not only does that beat the balls off the machine, you actually travel 4 times farther to finalize your slot. I've seen a lot of guys programming with fusion 360 use that technique. It may work in some circumstances, but I'm not a fan. I like the pegs. Nice job. I'll be curious to hear how long they stay horizontal as the aluminum sees repeated use.
If your machine is't rigit or strong enough for a full slotting op, adaptive slotting is definitly the right way
welcome to the, "you should probably be asleep" side of youtube. Hope you have a safe journey.
I just get off a 12 hour shift CNC machining, did a bit of manual today too, and watch CNC machining on TH-cam? 🤷♂️🤦🏻♂️
THERE IS NOTHING MORE SATISFING THAN MAKEING YOUR OUN STUFF FULL STOP
Shows a highly sophisticated modern machine...
Everyone in the comments: make a sick beat with it!
Wow this is really cool, I'm a 2nd year machinist running a fadal. I have a coworker who always talks up the haa's, cool too see one in action! Cool prototype!
Fadal's and Haas machine are the hot dog meat of CNC machines. That being said, I sure would not mind having either one to play with in my garage.
At 9:00,I like the look of leaving the stairstep roughing cuts on the bottom.Light deburr and done.The final product is cool too.
that machine makes better beats that most dj's
It started to remind me of a NIN song.....
Beat me to it... By 5 years...
@@skwerldeath +9+
Now this is pretty awesome. What a awesome set of programs
Looks great, the TM1 really is an awesomely capable machine for the money and since it can run on single phase power we could all run one in our own backyard shops.
keep up the great work.
Gerald
Impressive. We have 18 Haas machines and love them all!
Pretty sweet piece of gear there. Thanks for sharin, always interesting to see machines do their jobs.
Very nice work. The high speed toolpaths are sweet, looked like you were using trochoidal paths. I don't understand why people feel the need to bash on how you did something that they most likely couldn't do themselves. Keep up the good work brother!
Jon that is awesome I have never seen some thing like that I have always wondered when folks talk about CNC parts I had a understanding but I had never had an opportunity to see it happen Thanks and Thanks again ;O)
Very cool looking foot pegs! I'd be interested to see how long they last, they'd look awesome anodized! I would make one suggestion, you should kill the coolant and use an airblast for removing chips. The coatings that are on the tools are made so that when the tool is hot it activates, spaying it with coolant doesn't allow the coating to work properly and when a hot end mill or insert is sprayed with coolant, it causes micro fractures and will kill your tool life over time. I've been selling carbide tooling for a long time and I have few if any customers that mill any material with coolant. Here's tip If you run a tool too fast and it gets all galled up with aluminum, soak the tool overnight in toilet bowl cleaner, it will come out the next day as good as new ;) thanks for posting your work!
These are actually pretty nice tips... Thanks!
Hi. That is a Renishaw probe. It is linked to the machine via an electronic eye, and it will feed position information into the machine via macro programs. The first macro that you saw was it finding the exact center of stock stock, and feeding the coordinate into the machine as the G54 home location. Thanks for watching.
Not the most efficient programming but I liked this video because it actually shows an identifiable part being machined. Very cool. Nice video.
This is so cool! Wish I could get one of these in my little backyard shop!
Very nice. The TM-1 is an amazing machine and the DT-1 can really get crazy with HSM. Everyone is an armchair programmer here, for sure. Of course most CAM posts can be tweaked to improve tool life or trim cycle time. But spending 20 minutes tweaking to trim 20 seconds of cycle isn't always worth it. All depends on if you are making 20 parts or 20,000.
I don't know why but I could watch this machine working for hours...
Not if you use to work on them ... I hate them lol I just wanted to see the finished product
Ditto. If you run one, save for a new job or machine, it gets old. Especially on a 12 hour day running the same machine/style of parts all day.
Those toolpaths are a thing of beauty...
looked great i am starting to go to school next month on how to use G Code for the Hass cnc milling machine. we started a class 2 months ago but stopped for the summer it only has 5 students in it and is being taught by a master cnc machinist programmer. future looks great!!
Not to mention that this is in a backyard shop! Thanks for your support.
Damn! that was crazy when you were clearing out those pockets! Gotta love profit milling
I could watch all day/night long.
Nice part. Little tip, the drill bird nesting can be stopped by increasing the feed rate or lowering the spindle speed. Both create a heavier chip which tends to break shorter.
And on the high speed pocketing. Seems like that would put a lot of excess stress on the ball nuts?
These are impressive speeds as far as I can tell. One hell of a machine for backyard work, isn't it?
Hi Jonathan, what a great achievement. It is possible to have the plan of the part, the production range and the ISO program. Thanks for your video.
Nice job! I used to run a TM1. I wish it really went as fast as your video lol.
Oh man, I feel like you could make a sick beat with the cutting sounds of the bit. Lmao
+Micah Montoya do it!
Cool slotting moves. I've never used that motion.
Sometimes that's the case when you're prototyping a part. This was the second set I'd ever done, and there were lots of changes between this set and the first, and just as many since this was finished. Thanks for watching.
Not sure why people are talking crap....amazing work! I think it turned out real nice.
Looks like a great process. My only criticism is the high speed steel drills. But that's only if you're trying to make some quantity of them. If they're just for you it would be hard to justify carbide drills. Excellent work, thanks for posting.
Nice touch with the cleanup on the burrs
My eyes bleed rainbows when I see such beauty!
two things i love: CNC and motorcycles
you sir are a bit of an artist. enjoyed watching the video :)
Hi. Right on both accounts. I've since substantially reduced the peck depth on the pre-drill, and reduced the feed and increased the stepover on the roughing to reduce servo loads. Thanks for watching!
You should drill with faster feedrate. Chips will bigger so you will not have to clean your drills. 3.30 min, or decrease rpm.
Quhbz
Awesome!!
Here in mexico, that service it`s too expensive and hard to find :(
I see it´s made in a Home Depot! wooow, that kind of facilities are what make progress to a country.
Congrats Jon!!!
haha, the precision home depot coolant deflectors definitely play an important role!
haha ohhh i`m a dope! I thought it was a service in Home depot of te usa.
Anyway, keep the rest of my comment.
Definitely not ;)
Great video. It is kind of a rule that parabolic drills work best with aluminum operations? They definitely seem to get the scrap out of the way.
Crazy number of steps had to be done correctly. All the manual repositioning, and getting the Code correct and matching... impressive..
What is the principle behind the probe? Is it made using some strain gauges - like a load cell, Or is it wired to close a circuit on contact?
I assume the ball radius and flexibility are selected to close the circuit at the center of the spindle?
I'm trying to experiment with DIY probing. Made a strain gauge probe - it is too sensitive to work anywhere near to the stepper motors. Magnetic fields are too strong...
I kinda liked the stepped look on the underside befor the final smoothing process.
I was going to say “why not use pressure die casting” but as a DIY project it’s amazing.
You could use the machine to make casting dies. ;)
A big aluminum block plus a high-tech machine and a long time for machining. but only one footrest for motorbikes. Is it worth the money for rice bowl?
loved it, watched the whole thing from start to end :-)
Oh Yeah. Me too mat
these aluminum footpegs used on motorcycles are massed produced using casting right? not CNC
Nick Bultman Depends on the price point. Billet aluminium is stronger than cast due to the way its forged. So you can buy Billet CNC footpegs and you can buy cast ones, price difference is like $250 a set vs $100 a set, roughly.. But if you look up people who have done home foundry work on youtube and look at the quality of it once milled vs the quality of these and the difference is night and day.I didn't understand this until I started milling and when you cut something like 6071 or 7075 vs cutting up a cast piece, it literally falls off like butter..
Sound processing is very melodious
Just a hobby. Learned mostly via trial and error, plus whatever I could find on the internet (which is almost nothing). Program & operate. Can't effectively do either without knowing a thing or two about the other.
This will make a good 80s techno
Cool design, took me a little while to realize the feeds werent actually going that fast!
Before Anybody starts emailing saying I don't know what I'm talking about I spent 15 years at deckel maho as an applications engineer and the last 5 years @ WFL on the apps HAAS are by far the cheapest most fragile machines out their
i agree i ran a haas lathe for 4 yrs set up operator constantly had to comp the machine if it was a plus or minus one dimension kinda lame, but i love the control!
my boss was like go back to school for programming and I was like why? I can point to point g code on a lathe for the most part but no one does that, there is no time.
I worked for tredegar molded products building plastic injection molds manually vertical mills, lathes, surface grinders, jig grinders, and bores. Im now just trying to learn cnc, way different thought process. I dont have to square a block so im kinda struggling w the fact that i have no one to offer help in the milltronics department.
It's for a dirtbike that's been converted for winter use. Big snow boots need big pegs!
Fast pocket cuttin was cool . It must wreak havoc on the ball, and lead screw mechanisms
Haha. It cracks me up to hear everyone screeming about the speed of feed. It's OBVIOUSLY been sped up. same kind of people that comment on lack of coolant in promo videos. It for display. You have to consider certain allowances.
Good work btw. Quite a bit of work on a 3 axis. :)
Awesome craftsmanship
Pretty Cool ! the movie and the part ! awesome job man !
Nice work, and thanks for the high quality video.
I'd guess at least that long. Your video was at least x2 normal speed of motion. Great video, I enjoyed it a lot!
That's what was handy. As with life, sometimes you can be picky with your source of lubricant, you just need to get it done.
I especially liked that part about the aluminum
why did you scrub the steps of the back side of the peg i quite liked the look of them like that ?
Hey everyone.
Re: the seemingly high feed rates, keep in mind that parts of this video are sped up to keep you from succumbing to death via boredom.
Re: other manufacturing methods like die casting etc., keep in mind this is a one-off part! This is the first and only set of these that have ever been (and maybe will ever be) made. CNC machining from billet is the only way to go for a prototype like this!
Re: buying commercial pegs: these are MUCH bigger than a normal footpeg. They're designed to accommodate someone in a wide snow boot, not in a riding boot or shoe.
Thanks for watching!
Proper info? Care to elaborate?
I am the maker, and I know plenty, including how non-optimized the toolpaths were.
Jon Proce
yaaaa sir....u r right
shafiahmad02@gmail.com
So what are the tools used, and the real feeds and speeds?
cncguru777 Spindle speed maxed at 4000 for most or all tools (surface speed still too low). The long tool is a Cormorant 390 (I think). Used a DOC of about 0.05" and a feed rate of 140ipm for all of the roughing stuff. Pretty standard rates for everything else. Chip load of 0.004" or so on the 1/2" tooling and 0.015" on the 1/4".
Jon I cast and it costs me about $1500 to set up and I can get just as good accuracy. Casting equipment is cheaper than milling. Milling is the conduit from CAD to casting. You can cast items in a single piece that can't be milled etc. have a look at it. Its worth investigating.
Excelente demostración.
☺🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
Great work, nice video!
This is very interesting, I'm starting mechanical engineering and I still don't know why they can't tech us how to operate cnc..
thanks for the upload.
If your school has a machine shop then befriend the machinist there! That's what I did.
oh man ive been looking for a CNC machinist the past 4 months to make some custom brackets and encasement for me wish u lived next door !!
Handmade Lubrification that's cool !
I like that tool path, too bad hsmworks cost about half what that machine does. Does that TM1 have a renishaw probe?
Awesome, excellent design....................
Hellified good job, man!! Excellent vid and Thx for posting!
Sony Vegas is excellent for speeding up videos like this.
Cant say I would have thought about using trochoidal movements for cutting slots, always figured it would be hell on the screws.
I wonder what bars Bigfoot runs. Awesome peg.
Really enjoyed watching this high precision machine working... but I have to say-
Overkill?!?!?
Great work, really like your channel!
Nice méga good job 👍
Nice work there! Im atm working with the Mazak Integrex 300 ....I love to Watch these kinda vids to compare what i can do with my maschine and only using my dialog programming without cam´work added to it..n this piece i Think is pretty easy to do with just a little iso prog added...keep more vids coming:)
I'd be very impressed if you managed to build a part like this using nothing but the machine.
i have done a new piece at work ...its not as many angles as this,but its done in one process ,but im gonna upload it in the future n u will c some cool things,,for the first its Stainless steel *not the trickiest materials in the wide range of Stainless steels its the 2302 ,i dunno the materialnumber in usa*for the secondly ..lol...someone miscalculated the length of the materials (me) so i almost didnt manage to set it up cause of the shorth length to grasp the piece on..sorry for my bad gramma n Spelling..but i cant upload before hearing with my boss so i dont do a blunder in anyway..u know what i mean:)
And btw i know it sounded pretty cocky of me n it wasnt my meaning i can c that this piece took some serious time n effort to do...my gramma aint the best...i was trying to say that with my mazak dialog programming i can do some amasing Shapes with Little effort put in to it:)but the dialog is restricted to only 3 axles working at the same time,but with cam i can have 5 axles working at the same time:)
Mazak rules
love your work mate,
if i still hade my bike i would buy a set or two from you !!
regards
That is amazing! thanks for posting this!
Once you hit the clearance plane reverse the spindle at a high speed to fling those bits that are tangled up on there.
Nicely done!
I use HSMWorks for CAM. Thanks for watching!
Jon, nice work and nice job programming. Pay no mind to the haters questioning your methods. I am a CNC Machinist and Programmer as well and have been doing this for 15 years. Are you using Mastercam? The trochoidal cuts in the slots are a LOT faster than drilling and slotting.
That's a nice peg... wish I had a mill. :)
What studies and degrees have people who creates and developes this amazing stuff?
Machinist, mechanical engineer, industrial designer etc.
That feed was definitely a little quick considering the tight toolpath radius. In later revisions of the code I reduced the feedrate and increased the stepover.
es increible lo q hace esa maquinita ..
Awesome to watch the CNC process in action, I love this kind of stuff. I'm currently in the planning stage of building a cnc mill for my garage, but I'm not sure if I want a gantry style or knee style machine. Any advice on pro's/con's of each style? Thanks :)
Good video, tempted to making something..