We used cellulose blown in on my Dad's home. After 10 years he tried some to see if it still was flame-resistant. It was not. It burned easily. The chemical retardant was degraded to the point it burned. You should show older cellulose tested. Thanks for the video.
I wonder if it was possible that the old cellulose did not have the fire retardant in it? I believe the fire retardant is a boron based mineral fire retardant and I don't see why it would degrade. Did you test the cellulose with a fire test before installing it?
How did you determine the chemical retardant degraded? That seems very unlikely that this chemical, which has been around millions of years before it was mined, would degrade in ten years. Maybe you wanted it to?
A lot of “fire retardant” materials will tell you in the fine print they have to be replaced every 5 years or so. For insulation that is not practical obviously.
this video should be shown in every architecture school. great way to learn why some is used in certain areas, mineral wood for stairs, batt insul in others.
Watching this video and reading the comments below, I'm beginning to think that the Rock wool might be some of the very best stuff out there. Light weight, easy to install, doesn't burn, easy to buy at many home improvement stores. If I ever win the lottery and get a house built, I think I'll use that stuff in the walls.
@@maakulad7504 that's not so much winning the lottery as much as owning the lottery. They never did manage to get the price of that to drop very much, though it would be the _perfect_ home insulation if they could..
I had Cellulose insulation in my old house that was built in 2000. I can definitely say that after 15 years, it settles, burns and the entire attic was infested with silverfish. Going through training as a firefighter, I can attest to the difficulty in putting out fires in homes with cellulose insulation. Every time, we would have to rip down the entire ceiling (even if only one room was affected) because of the way fire can smolder and snake through the insulation. If you want to know which insulation is best, call your insurance company. They have to pay the claims and would know best.
@@akanesoratobu8889 The spray foam I used has flame retardant in it. It would actually give you another 10 minutes to get out of the house if it even caught on fire. This is some anti oil politics stupidity. You guys do what you want. My next REhab will be the same 2 inches spray foam with aluminum double bubble over the studs and taped off. 90% reduction in the heating and cooling bill like last time. everything woke turns to poop. also Bugs and Rodents hate foam.
as for insurance companies. They will tell you a sprinkler system works best. There are some counties in the DC MD VA area that require it in the new homes and rehabs.
In many contexts spray foam is harder than you'd think to beat because it keeps oxygen out so effectively, chokes it. Let's not forget wood is also flammable so there's the question of how well you're protecting the wood. Not a simple equation. In an intense fire situation you're toast no mater what in a stick frame. Accidental ignition is the bigger concern.
Although this is made in the US (and I am in Europe) this is still a _really_ useful review. The depth of knowledge on display is unquestionable; it's always obvious to me when someone has learned some technical jargon but doesn't really understand it. You obviously know exactly what you are talking about. So, even to someone in the UK (where available product ranges may differ) this is extremely helpful advice and very thought-provoking. Many thanks for sharing.
We build wooden houses and we get same questions about fire resistance in a wooden house. This video well proves, not everything burns so easy as we think. Happy to hear this about cellulose insulation. Thx for video.
LOL Sure Lay a baby in Greenguard fiber glass wool. Post a video of that on youtube rofl........ What size clothes you where post it below so they have your stripped pants ready at the local jail when you arrive LOL
Quoting from a website "Animal testing in Scotland and Switzerland proved" it. Like asbestos, the nature of sharp shards cutting your lung's internal is the problem. I make sure no holes/gaps are in my ceiling since the A/C will pull out these dangerous glasses.
Good demonstration. One reason I will be doing closed cell on the outside followed by Rockwool when I build my new house. Rockwool some good stuff. Excellent demonstration!
I have researched many insulation types and crunched every number possible and Roxul is by far the best product. Cost, r value and ease of installation.
I worked at a cellulose insulation factory years ago, we took recycled papers ground them up and sprayed them with fire retardant chemicals. The jets that sprayed the chemicals clogged several times daily. Meanwhile countless bags of untreated cellulose / ground up paper was bagged and loaded into trucks. We took grab samples every 15 minutes and held a propane torch flame directly on the insulation for 20 seconds for testing if the insulation caught fire we knew the jets were clogged. As I said countless bags of cellulose insulation were bagged and loaded into truck. We never unloaded the bags. I'd bet anyone that there are millions of homes that have highly flammable ground up paper crammed in attics ready to catch fire. I would NEVER put this product in any space such as and attic that was exposed to high heat or around electrical wiring. Even worse I would be willing to bet that after time the chemicals sprayed on the papers breaks down or dissipates. If you have cellulose in your home I would test it annually. So glad that was only a temporary job to get me through school and that I knew better than to put this in any areas of my home exposed to high heat.
Hoefledorf My honest opinion, don't put shredded paper in your attic or walls, regardless if you put boric acid in it. At some point it will break down and you'll have highly flammable material lining your attic and walls. Please understand this is a promotional video, their trying to sell you their product.
Hoefledorf I don't want to come off as an authority on fire safety. I just know the experience I had as a college student working in a factory that manufactured cellulose insulation. It's not regulated so unfortunately anything goes with profit being the main objective. It's sounds to me you're being very cautious and I think with what you've just said you should be okay, I would flame test every bag before blowing it in. And just to throw this out there, after my parents had passed away we cleaned their home and found a lot of old newspaper in the attic, never had a house fire. Add to that there are millions of homes that have cellulose, if it were a major problem it would have been widely known by now. I just get a bit edgy when I see ads like the one above make unsubstantiated claims.
+VTV // reply // Why does Cellulose insulation smell. It's because they add a sweet smelling sterilizing agent to it to reduce the former waste paper bedding smell (its mostly sold for animal bedding), when collected from waste paper warehouses and dumpsters behind shops it can contain germs, ants, insects, mice, rats and wildlife droppings, so for public safety reasons it must go under the squirted on liquid sterlizor spayor . Too much sterilizor can go in in one area because the conveyot belts stopped for a paper jam, and other areas can go untreated. Its waste paper called Cellulose a trade name to improve its image and value. Now you know.
This is why I am re insulating my entire home with roxul insulation. Spray foam will kill you because of the amount of smoke. Fiberglass as you have seen does nothing. Improper factory products such as you have stated will burn your ass. Roxul is good up to 2100 degrees, because it’s made of basically rock. It also has great r value per inch.
I became interested in Rockwool from watching a channel where a guy built his house pretty much by himself and he installed Rockwool, saying that its fireproofing qualities are so good that if an outlet or switch was to catch fire inside the wall, the fire would actually snuff out because the Rockwool won't burn. I don't know how true that is, but if this video is anything to go by, it seem like Rockwool is far superior to fiberglass insulation. The only thing I'm wondering is how fiberglass insulation with its paper backing can possibly be legal to use in buildings since it lights up like a campfire.
Thanks for the info, this helped me figure out all the things I need to cover and what type of insulation I need. Rockwool ticks all the boxes and is 5 times cheaper than the Foam I was originally looking at.
Recently a barn (more like a house really) that I built in 2005 with closed cell spray foam burned and was mortally destroyed. Amazingly, the 3/4" knotty pine that I had lined the entire inside of the structure with burned away completely, yet there was not one hole in the roof sheathing or wall sheathing due to the closed cell spray foam! A REAL fire test! I was impressed. It didn't melt into a liquified mess and provide fuel to the fire - it insulated the framing and sheathing instead.
Very educational! Will be very nice if you add and the specification for each foam you are testing(thermal resistance, moisture resistance, acoustic performance, fungi resistance etc.). Thank you!
I am a big fan of Roxul mineral- or rockwool insulation, and of other Roxul products. Nice to see you've included these in your tests. These materials, as far as I know, are made from basalt mining wastes. Basalt is a volcanic rock that can cover valuable ore bodies in some locations. At least in the Roxul plant in B.C. they're using mining waste. Don't know about the others around the world. Maybe some of them are using iron smelter wastes. I hadn't heard of Aircrete before now. Will look it up.
Great video. Our Coloroado home was built in 1969 and was lacking A LOT of insulation in many areas. Though, upon remodeling, I found the walls had 2.5 inches of rockwool inside. I was happy to see that, even though its OLD rockwool (I'm sure the tech for that stuff has advanced somewhat). I decided to keep it in there, peel the face off (don't want two vapor barriers), and put 3.5 inches of faced fiberglass insulation on top of it. There's 5-6 inches of insulation in there now! I would have loved to use the newer Roxul brand rockwool on instead of the fiberglass on top, but I'm not very wealthy (that Roxul is $65-$70 a pack). So, unfortunately I don't have a fire retardant insulation UNTIL the fire melts through the fiberglass first, haha, but it's better than nothing. I did manage to get Roxul in the ceilings for soundproofing though. Boy is that stuff easy to work with. It's going to be toasty in the basementg this Winter!
I used to work for an insulating company when I was a teenager. I learned that cellulose was a really good fire retardant and insulator when sprayed in unfinished walls, but it loses its fire-retardant qualities when blown dry into finished walls.
This is great to see what happens in a fire! I too wanted you to have a mask on. But what I really am disappointed about is that you didn't show sheep's wool!!!!! Wool is the least toxic and maybe the most un-flammable. I can't get my felted wool to burn at all!!! It does not ignite, let alone give off incredibly toxic smoke. This is what I will use in my tiny house!! Thank you for your demo!
Thanks for a very informative demonstration. It would have been nice if a sample typical of strawbale construction (ie densely packed and encased in plaster ) had been demo'd. There is a great deal of interest world-wide due to straw being touted as a green/sustainable material, that interest perhaps being greater in Europe than North America where it is being used in urban high-rises . At the densities recommended for building,,when exposed to open flame,the straw simply smoulders rather than bursts into flame as one might expect. However, the straw is typically protected by wet-applied plaster typically to a thickness that provides a multi-hour (ie 3 or more) fire rating as per ASTM.
It's a one time demonstration, it will make zero difference. I breathed far worse on top of coke ovens and that was every day and with me having to use a respirator.
Based on this video I bought Greenfiber insulation from Lowe’s for my wood fired oven enclosure. I had already insulated with perlite but ran a little short so I finished filling the enclosure (made of steel studs, cement board walls and a 14 gauge steel roof) making sure to keep the Greenfiber 6” away from the double wall stainless steel stove pipe. After cooking my first pizza In the oven the enclosure began to smolder and has been doing so for three days now. There is very little ventilation in the enclosure so all day yesterday I keep a canvas tarp over the enclosure and keep it wet all day hoping to smother out the fire. I took it off last night and smoke still poured out of the venting areas. Using this crap was a big mistake on my part I should have just added more perlite which is made from volcanic rock. Now I’ll have to wait until it quits burning, remove the the roof, remove the burnt Greenfiber and add perlite. What a PITA!
Not all cellulose can be judged the same. Cellulose has been used since around the 50's. The old house I live in recently had a fire start directly in the insulation by nothing more than a spark. This is just a warning for anyone that has an older house with cellulose, the older stuff has definite fire potential!!
The 24 floor "Grenfell" apartment building in London just burnt down. So far 12 people have died. They had recently finished putting foam panels on the exterior of the building. I can't believe how professional engineers and architects would be so oblivious to this hazard!
Depends what you mean by "foam". Not all foams are the same & as the above tests show, they burn differently,. So far, no-one has confirmed what insulation was actually used in Grenfell House (as opposed to what was specified). Seems the fire had something to do with how flammable the aluminium composite cladding was & the way it was all fitted. The foam was separated from the cladding by an air gap that may have accelerated the fire.
@@robinstokes5179 the 'foam' used is as follows: "composition: a polyethylene core sandwiched between aluminium sheets."... a cheaper alternative was chosen to save money, which clearly has cost many lives. Polyethylene is referred to as SOLID PETROL. "known for its high insulating properties."
Try this test on a thick piece of wood, lightning it from the top and the result would be the same. Most of these insulations burn like crazy. In our area we had a lot of pur and pir fires. Pir was also used in Grenfell Tower in London.
I wish you had also tested expanded cork and compared it to foams for fireproofness and smoke. Some of those fumes are deadly, you should have had protection on.
That is true. If you FAIL to extinguish it, it will burn to the ground BUT I think the point here is this: If you have a quality foam that does not allow the fire to burn QUICKLY THROUGH the walls, then you technically have MORE time TO EXTINGUISH it. Holding back the spread of fire is a worthy calculation in choosing insulation...
Todays modern homes that are prefab balloon construction are basically "disposable", under fire conditions the floors and roofs collapse quickly, stairs are only rated for 5 mins under fire loads making them only good for escape. the truss members in the roofs and joists in the floors are made of laminates that are wood chips bound with epoxy and polyurethane resins that under elevated temps give up any structural property they had. insulation will help with escape times but it is unfortunately not going to help much with the extinguishing aspect
Rock/Glass-wool is common in Germany. Rock wool performs much better during installation, because glass wool (especially cheap one) looses lots of tiny particals while moving which go in your lung. "Noobs" use polyurethane foam. :-) Polystyrene plates were THE trend of the last years (because of very agressive marketing campaigns), but it has too many disadvantages (in my opinion). I would definitely recommend rock wool.
+Dan Lekin yes! same thing in Holland... Its not the product but the marketing that has brought the "new cool thing"... rock wool is the best I have ever worked with till I bumped into Hemp.
In Australia we don't have fibreglass with Kraft paper bonded to it so that's not a fire problem for us. There have been an occasional problem in the past with cellulose burning or smoldering, but this is because it was not manufactured to the correct standard. Cellulose has been covered by a standard since 1986. The product has changed since the 50s and the additives have changed and are much better. We have fire tested old cellulose that was installed probably in the 80s that had been saturated with rainwater from a roof leak. The fire test was still perfect. People should start looking at effective insitu thermal ratings rather than labelled insulation ratings as this is an important consideration when looking at insulation products. All Australian products have a zero spread of flame if manufactured correctly. Effective insulation is the labelled R rating adjusted for climatic and installed conditions. All insulation has effective R ratings lower than their labelled R ratings some products there is only a small difference and some products there is a huge difference especially if high insulation ratings are required.
Best explanation about heat exposure to insulation that I've seen yet. One thing to keep in mind though is that even in a fire, if the insulation is kept away from oxygen it may only melt instead of burning so the smoke might not be as bad but that doesn't mean that the chemicals have become inert. Quite the opposite, you may just have a puddle of ignition ready goo left after the fire. Excelant video though. Maybe you should wright an ASTM test based on it. These are important things to know about any building material.
This is the video that convinced me to buy a few bats of mineral/rock wool to add to my new room addition in my house. One thing I learned when I put in rock wool is that it has a little more higher R value per inch than fiberglass.
I had a radiant ceiling heat short out in my attic last night and start a fire. The electrical connection which was the source of the short was buried in cellulose. The cellulose burned consistently but slowly. The burning materiel smelled a lot like nail polish remover and I thought the kids had spilled some. However when I went looking, I found the insulation int he attic smoking and when I pulled it up it was had red hot coal clumps burning which were actually difficult to extinguish. A lot like a sponge burning from the inside would be hard to put out. The parts of the material that were not burning prevented the water from reaching the parts that were burning. It was absolutely NOT self extinguishing. One shorted wire for a few seconds was enough to start a fire that was smoldered for hours spreading using the CELLULOSE insulation as a fuel. I was lucky i caught it early before much damage could be done. My insulation is about 30 years old and I suspect the flame retardant chemically broke down over that time. I tried some experiments with some fiber glass insulation and the cellulose insulation from my attic. With the cellulose, the fire spreads once the torch is removed but with the fiberglass the fire goes out once the torch is removed. Also since the fiberglass melts and opens up, any water sprayed on it would go right to the fire instead of preventing the flow of water like the cellulose. I am pulling all the cellulose out of my attic and replacing it with a material that , over the years, I have confidence will maintain its properties and consequently is a superior material in the long run considering safety. I should also note that there have been a few other house fires in my area recently. I suspect that since all the houses were built about 30 years ago by the same builder using the same materials, that the insulation in those homes also caught fire after the radiant heat failed.
+Brad Seager ?? Why does Cellulose insulation smell. It's because they add a sweet smelling sterilizing agent to it to reduce the former waste paper bedding smell (its mostly sold for animal bedding), when collected from waste paper warehouses and dumpsters behind shops it can contain germs, ants, insects, mice, rats and wildlife droppings, so for public safety reasons it must go under the squirted on liquid sterlizor sprayer . Too much sterilizor can go in in one area because the conveyot belts stopped for a paper jam, and other areas can go untreated. Its waste paper called Cellulose a trade name to improve its image and value. Now you know.
Thank you for contributing your interesting story. Rarely is any study conducted on old materials; rather, only on new materials that are currently being sold. So you have me wondering about my borate-treated cellulose attic insulation. I never dreamed that such a simple fire-retardant could deteriorate (it also deters termite infestation of the insulation itself), and I remain skeptical but respectful of your essay.
My compliments on Larry's easy-to-take delivery. He's thorough and accurate. He ought to take up a night job as an MLB radio broadcaster! Keep up the great work, Larry. But I worry about any smoke you might inhale, during your demonstrations. Rumor has it that isocyanurate turns to cyanide gas at high temperatures.
if that were true than i have an extremely high tolerance to cyanide.i have had to scrape structual fireproofing out of the web of i beams many times to weld this or that.nothing would be scraped from the other side or any where else i wasnt welding so the far side of the web would be just uner 2000 f roughly.its not pleasant smelling ,sometimes it will make you hack and cough but i havent died yet.one thing i know will kill you is welding steel that has lead based paint on it.take my word on that one.
Curious if there are any insulation experts out there. I am wondering about the safety of the foam insulations. In the video, he shows that most of the foams self extinguish when the heat is removed. My questions is, if you don't have an electrical-caused fire in a bad box or something in a wall, then presumably, you have an already burning fire that has reached the insulation. In a case like that, the heat source would never be removed since the damn house is on fire. Shouldn't that variable be considered? A fire origination outside of the wall and working its way in? That foam lights up, man!
The old insulation in my attic was blow in wool insulation. Highly flammable so I burned it in my fireplace to dispose of it when I put in new insulation.
Twatted - Suggest you look up what U-value is as rock wool doesn't have a U value by itself. That is a structures insulation which takes into account all the materials and the construction. Any batt-type insulation isn't going to be as good as well applied spray insulation simply due to the edges and reality of dealing with wires, pipes and other aspects that allow for small gaps where the spray insulation can make everything air-tight but you have a lot of other issues (like fire). Folks building air-tight homes will often used an initial layer of 2" closed cell with rock wool over that.
Thanks so much for this video and taking the time to put this video together!!! This is one of the most informative videos so far and saved me lots of research! Really appreciate how much this helped me! ✨
When a house caches fire it will go on framing not jump from insulation to another insulation. The foam is pretty much stupid it melts BUT it doesn't really stop the fire but the recycled paper is so much better it doesn't really burn and this will not give a fire a room to breath!!!
+Nel Edora You're right. BUT as far as an insulating product goes, it is not stupid at all. Dense-pack cellulose insulation can be conveniently installed around beams, old insulation...and most importantly...around current fixtures...without having to re-wire the house. Because cellulose insulation is more fire-retardant, you are less likely to have a fire caused by a wire short. The majority of house fires are caused by kitchen incidents, smoking in bed, and faulty wires. Any insulation wouldn't stop the first two causes.
@Juniper2276, that is why it became forbidden to install wires exposed in Sweden. Must be wired through PVC tubing which prevents wire shortening from performing fire risk. The PVC pipe can allow a wire to burn from socket to fuse without creating a fire as consequence. *Nod* Not to mention, super easy to change wires out without having to knock walls down. And less risk of driving a screw right through the wires.
rockwool isn't from "slag" it's part of that, majority of it is besalt which is very abundant on earth as it is volcanic rock.. found all over. A small part of slag is mixed in for the process of rock wool
Great demonstration video. "Don't try this at home" kind of thing and there should be over 1million views by now. I was totally surprised by how the cellulose resisted the fire. In consideration of the "fire triangle" concept, those insulation materials that flamed up only when the torch was applied demonstrate that in a real building fire, the surrounding extreme heat, combined with available oxygen would cause those substanecs to contribute to the fire. I was actually dissapointed to see how poorly the XPS performed with flames continuing even after the torch was taken away. Go with rock wool or spray foam with the thermal barrier top coating.
If you hit a 2x4 from above with a blow torch it would go out after a few seconds. I think some of these would stay lit if ignited from below. You could also put the samples on a charcoal grill for a more difficult test.
I have personally inspected house with cellulose fibre that was installed over 22 years ago - still completely fireproof - the insulation was levelled to the rafters with a fine crust on top preventing movement by wind. Very neat and tidy as well.
This is the Warnings given to Cellulose installers : Cellulose insulation is manufactured from shredded waste paper to manufacture loft insulation, installers are advised to completely protect themselves from coming into any kind of skin contact with the product or dust - to wear safety glasses with side shields, face mask or respirator, gloves, long tight sleeves, long pants and a hat kept in place with a hair net. Cellulose insulation is synthesized chiefly from recycled newspapers. The additional components it may include are binders, skin irritants, fire retardants, ammonium sulfate, sulfuric acid, borax, boric acid, and other chemicals. Cellulose insulation presents serious health hazards if inhaled, k/as dust asthma etc, and finally, it may also carry potential cancer causing agents or carcinogens associated with the original waste paper source and printers inks. Eventually the product does settle 40% under its own weight so extra material allowances for this must be made.
Asbestos is a good insulator,but it is a carcinogen when you breath in the small fibers you will be at risk for lung cancer and you could die from asbestosis.
sissy murphy i think the fire (smoke) will kil you faster then the water. Rockwool has a superb quality when it came to fire, sound and heat insulation. Glava is a cheaper alternative but it has som problems. a smal fire wil cause the foam to fill the house with life-thretening gasses. Rockwool, nope..
I wonder if the AirKrete is actually made of Chrysotile? That would explain its fire resistance and still available since the US still has not banned the mineral iirc.
+Dr. Energy Saver, Have you fire tested vermiculite insulation in this same way? How did it compare to the Rock Wool If you have. Thanks for taking the time to view my question.
Can you try to burn hempcrete ? It is supposed to be fireproof and is supposed to be a natural insulation material too. They build entire walls with it. Would love to know how it performs in this test
I have a question for you. I blew in atticat in my attic but I forgot to cover the water hot lines, should I be OK for the insulation won't catch fire! Thanks
I remember a stove from the 1930s I took apart had a ceramic I think insulation around the oven. Put a torch to it. It got orange but wasn't burned at all.
Dear Dr. EnergySaver, your test shows some variation in ignition properties, but except for the cellulose it does not even come close to showing how these materials behave in an actual building fire. In NFPA building fire test conditions foam did not self-extinguish, and the test room became an inferno in less than a minute; while after 15 minutes of fire exposure cellulose insulation still did not melt, collapse, or flashover. here is a link to a short video of the test - th-cam.com/video/mUPp-Ipt-Pk/w-d-xo.html
Great demonstration . I guess the rock-wool is not hermetic, so the healthy one , thermic protector , and by using safety protective gear anyone can install it .
The fire term is whether it “supports combustion” or not. If you remove the fire source, does it self extinguish? I.E. Avoids spread of fire. As to the color of smoke, the general rule is all smoke is bad for health and black smoke is the most deadly. In as much as your instinct says obtain fire conditioned materials, I would be leery just to trust it. Does it out gas under sun heat and humid conditions? Insulation is a very large mass of materials, so it matters what you are exposed to in mass inside your home. If I were to build new, I would go with insulating the outside so those materials remain on the exterior and breath to the exterior. Matt Risinger from the Build Show has real life examples of this. I would also use a sealing membrane from Prosoco that literally is a monolithic water barrier that envelopes the exterior. Matt has several videos on that as well and are very jaw dropping to finally see a product that is a real solution the industry has wanted for decades.
As I watch Mike Holms show the best way to build your house is with foam insulation or Rock wool. Also treat lumber with fire retardant. This way the house wouldn't burn. Yes you can spray this on older homes lumber.
is there any standard to provide fire rating durability for rock wool? in case we want to explain our rock wool can hold 3 hours on fire to our client. kindly advise
I want the space shuttle tiles. We have seen want can happen if a few are missing on reentry. Think about how much heat they tolerate without transmitting the heat to inside the shuttle.
Very much appreciate your video, one option I didn't see you test was cellular glass insulation (eg Foamglas). Do you think you could redo your video with a quick same test of that type of insulation?
Do you by chance know if the pink fiberglass gives off any harmful fumes when burning? Ive been using it as a wick in an alcohol stove because it doesn't seem to burn ( 1qt paint can, stuffed full of pink insulation, filled with rubbing alcohol till it's saturated) you light it and it makes a great little heater.... IF IT IS SAFE. Found this video while researching this question. Thank you.. good info
I arrived at this video while trying to fine some kind of insulation that is fire retardant, but also breathable. I'm going to line the top of a small ammo can where LiPo batteries are stored. Then the lid will be drilled/vented in a few places just in case one of the batteries ever catches on fire there is no pressure build-up and thus no risk of explosion. However, I need a layer of fire retardant insulation that can contain the fire but let a bit of air through the vents in order to let pressure out. Any recommendations?
+Danny Cruz Hempcreet is a great insulator, its breathable,fire retarded termite repellent on top of that if that is not enough.. ... it also absorbs CO'2 with aging and its just gets stronger by with time
I wouldn't be all that concerned. If it's air tight to the point you're trying to vent pressure, it probably doesn't get enough air for a fire to exist in the first place
I’ve used the cellulose insulation in my house. It’s good and cheap, and doesn’t burn. (Wonder if the flame retardant goes away over time?) It is dusty as hell though!
I freaking love rock wool. My oldest kid cought the kitchen on fire, grease fire. It destroyed some drywall and very little damage to the studs. It burned for 26 mins tell a neighbor put it out. If not for rock wool that fire would have spread like my chilhood home.
Another important factor is the combustion byproducts of insulations. All he foam insulations will release dense, toxic smoke, even if they are flame retardant. Some foams, I think polyisocyanurate foams release a fair amount of hydrogen cyanide when burned. Doing a little research you can see large scale tests where foam insulation degraded in fire conditions and releases massive plumes of toxic black smoke. In fact foam insulation has claimed lives due to its toxic combustion byproducts.
I agree that "This is not a scientific test" noted in the comments above. Although rock wool does have twice as high a temperature rating as fiberglass, 2000 degrees F vs 1000 degrees F, the temperature of a propane torch is easily 1000 degrees above common house fires. If the temperature is high enough to melt fiberglass behind gypsum board then your house is lost already.
Great video! Just before watching this video I watch a video about spray foam insulation. And it was making the homeowners sick. So the home owners had to live in mobile homes because their homes were too toxic. And unlivable.
We used cellulose blown in on my Dad's home. After 10 years he tried some to see if it still was flame-resistant. It was not. It burned easily. The chemical retardant was degraded to the point it burned. You should show older cellulose tested. Thanks for the video.
I wonder if it was possible that the old cellulose did not have the fire retardant in it? I believe the fire retardant is a boron based mineral fire retardant and I don't see why it would degrade.
Did you test the cellulose with a fire test before installing it?
cellulose can also be expected to rot if it gets wet, I reckon. And blown-in insulation settles over time.
How did you determine the chemical retardant degraded? That seems very unlikely that this chemical, which has been around millions of years before it was mined, would degrade in ten years. Maybe you wanted it to?
@@tealkerberus748 Dense packed cellulose, which is what you get when you blow it in, shows no signs of settling.
A lot of “fire retardant” materials will tell you in the fine print they have to be replaced every 5 years or so. For insulation that is not practical obviously.
this video should be shown in every architecture school. great way to learn why some is used in certain areas, mineral wood for stairs, batt insul in others.
Why you use rockwool batts everywhere if you care about the people living in it.
Watching this video and reading the comments below, I'm beginning to think that the Rock wool might be some of the very best stuff out there. Light weight, easy to install, doesn't burn, easy to buy at many home improvement stores.
If I ever win the lottery and get a house built, I think I'll use that stuff in the walls.
SpiritBear12 hemp crete is also very good too
It's actually what we use in Germany everywhere.
Used it for the first time on a project. Easy to install. I like it way better than fiberglass. Will use it again.
You could have aerogel put in for the best outcome
@@maakulad7504 that's not so much winning the lottery as much as owning the lottery. They never did manage to get the price of that to drop very much, though it would be the _perfect_ home insulation if they could..
I had Cellulose insulation in my old house that was built in 2000. I can definitely say that after 15 years, it settles, burns and the entire attic was infested with silverfish. Going through training as a firefighter, I can attest to the difficulty in putting out fires in homes with cellulose insulation. Every time, we would have to rip down the entire ceiling (even if only one room was affected) because of the way fire can smolder and snake through the insulation. If you want to know which insulation is best, call your insurance company. They have to pay the claims and would know best.
Spray Foam.
@@TheWhale45 spray foam actually burns easily too.
@@akanesoratobu8889 The spray foam I used has flame retardant in it. It would actually give you another 10 minutes to get out of the house if it even caught on fire. This is some anti oil politics stupidity. You guys do what you want. My next REhab will be the same 2 inches spray foam with aluminum double bubble over the studs and taped off. 90% reduction in the heating and cooling bill like last time. everything woke turns to poop. also Bugs and Rodents hate foam.
as for insurance companies. They will tell you a sprinkler system works best. There are some counties in the DC MD VA area that require it in the new homes and rehabs.
In many contexts spray foam is harder than you'd think to beat because it keeps oxygen out so effectively, chokes it. Let's not forget wood is also flammable so there's the question of how well you're protecting the wood. Not a simple equation. In an intense fire situation you're toast no mater what in a stick frame. Accidental ignition is the bigger concern.
Although this is made in the US (and I am in Europe) this is still a _really_ useful review. The depth of knowledge on display is unquestionable; it's always obvious to me when someone has learned some technical jargon but doesn't really understand it. You obviously know exactly what you are talking about. So, even to someone in the UK (where available product ranges may differ) this is extremely helpful advice and very thought-provoking. Many thanks for sharing.
What type of insulation is commonly used in attics in Europe?
@@trumpisaconfirmedcuck5840rockwool, wood fibre, glass fibre, foam. Pretty much the same as US
We build wooden houses and we get same questions about fire resistance in a wooden house. This video well proves, not everything burns so easy as we think. Happy to hear this about cellulose insulation. Thx for video.
TY LARRY FOR GETTING LUNG CANCER FOR MY TH-cam VIEWING PLEASURE !
He'll more likely get lung cancer from handling the fiberglass.
I think you mean asbestos don't you? You can lay a baby in Greenguard certified fibre glass wool
LOL Sure Lay a baby in Greenguard fiber glass wool. Post a video of that on youtube rofl........ What size clothes you where post it below so they have your stripped pants ready at the local jail when you arrive LOL
Quoting from a website "Animal testing in Scotland and Switzerland proved" it. Like asbestos, the nature of sharp shards cutting your lung's internal is the problem. I make sure no holes/gaps are in my ceiling since the A/C will pull out these dangerous glasses.
Rich Morgenstein of all time
Good demonstration. One reason I will be doing closed cell on the outside followed by Rockwool when I build my new house. Rockwool some good stuff. Excellent demonstration!
I have researched many insulation types and crunched every number possible and Roxul is by far the best product. Cost, r value and ease of installation.
I worked at a cellulose insulation factory years ago, we took recycled papers ground them up and sprayed them with fire retardant chemicals. The jets that sprayed the chemicals clogged several times daily. Meanwhile countless bags of untreated cellulose / ground up paper was bagged and loaded into trucks.
We took grab samples every 15 minutes and held a propane torch flame directly on the insulation for 20 seconds for testing if the insulation caught fire we knew the jets were clogged. As I said countless bags of cellulose insulation were bagged and loaded into truck. We never unloaded the bags.
I'd bet anyone that there are millions of homes that have highly flammable ground up paper crammed in attics ready to catch fire.
I would NEVER put this product in any space such as and attic that was exposed to high heat or around electrical wiring.
Even worse I would be willing to bet that after time the chemicals sprayed on the papers breaks down or dissipates. If you have cellulose in your home I would test it annually.
So glad that was only a temporary job to get me through school and that I knew better than to put this in any areas of my home exposed to high heat.
Hoefledorf My honest opinion, don't put shredded paper in your attic or walls, regardless if you put boric acid in it. At some point it will break down and you'll have highly flammable material lining your attic and walls.
Please understand this is a promotional video, their trying to sell you their product.
Hoefledorf I don't want to come off as an authority on fire safety. I just know the experience I had as a college student working in a factory that manufactured cellulose insulation. It's not regulated so unfortunately anything goes with profit being the main objective.
It's sounds to me you're being very cautious and I think with what you've just said you should be okay, I would flame test every bag before blowing it in. And just to throw this out there, after my parents had passed away we cleaned their home and found a lot of old newspaper in the attic, never had a house fire. Add to that there are millions of homes that have cellulose, if it were a major problem it would have been widely known by now.
I just get a bit edgy when I see ads like the one above make unsubstantiated claims.
+VTV // reply // Why does Cellulose insulation smell. It's because they add a sweet smelling sterilizing agent to it to reduce the former waste paper bedding smell (its mostly sold for animal bedding), when collected from waste paper warehouses and dumpsters behind shops it can contain germs, ants, insects, mice, rats and wildlife droppings, so for public safety reasons it must go under the squirted on liquid sterlizor spayor . Too much sterilizor can go in in one area because the conveyot belts stopped for a paper jam, and other areas can go untreated. Its waste paper called Cellulose a trade name to improve its image and value. Now you know.
This is why I am re insulating my entire home with roxul insulation. Spray foam will kill you because of the amount of smoke. Fiberglass as you have seen does nothing. Improper factory products such as you have stated will burn your ass.
Roxul is good up to 2100 degrees, because it’s made of basically rock. It also has great r value per inch.
This is why you shouldn't buy american made stuff.
"dun worry the smoke helps the fireman get to u faster as it acts as a beacon" said most spray foam salesperson. 😂😂😂
I was thinking that!
Did you know that Open Cell spray foam off gasses Hydrogen Cyanide when it burns...
Are you saying it's a smoke signal?
Jobtown?
It should not
I became interested in Rockwool from watching a channel where a guy built his house pretty much by himself and he installed Rockwool, saying that its fireproofing qualities are so good that if an outlet or switch was to catch fire inside the wall, the fire would actually snuff out because the Rockwool won't burn.
I don't know how true that is, but if this video is anything to go by, it seem like Rockwool is far superior to fiberglass insulation. The only thing I'm wondering is how fiberglass insulation with its paper backing can possibly be legal to use in buildings since it lights up like a campfire.
If you don't know why it has the paper face, then you should be commenting on what should and shouldn't be legal.
It’s paper faced for vapor barrier qualities but the more i see how it reacts to fire.. i think i will use Rockwool mixed with a plastic vapor barrier
Thanks for the info, this helped me figure out all the things I need to cover and what type of insulation I need. Rockwool ticks all the boxes and is 5 times cheaper than the Foam I was originally looking at.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2711883/
Recently a barn (more like a house really) that I built in 2005 with closed cell spray foam burned and was mortally destroyed. Amazingly, the 3/4" knotty pine that I had lined the entire inside of the structure with burned away completely, yet there was not one hole in the roof sheathing or wall sheathing due to the closed cell spray foam! A REAL fire test! I was impressed. It didn't melt into a liquified mess and provide fuel to the fire - it insulated the framing and sheathing instead.
Very educational! Will be very nice if you add and the specification for each foam you are testing(thermal resistance, moisture resistance, acoustic performance, fungi resistance etc.). Thank you!
I am a big fan of Roxul mineral- or rockwool insulation, and of other Roxul products. Nice to see you've included these in your tests.
These materials, as far as I know, are made from basalt mining wastes. Basalt is a volcanic rock that can cover valuable ore bodies in some locations. At least in the Roxul plant in B.C. they're using mining waste.
Don't know about the others around the world.
Maybe some of them are using iron smelter wastes.
I hadn't heard of Aircrete before now. Will look it up.
I had previously know Aircrete or Airkrete (US) as Autoclaved Aerated Concrete.
besalt & slag as he said, but like 90%+ besalt
Great video.
Our Coloroado home was built in 1969 and was lacking A LOT of insulation in many areas.
Though, upon remodeling, I found the walls had 2.5 inches of rockwool inside. I was happy to see that, even though its OLD rockwool (I'm sure the tech for that stuff has advanced somewhat).
I decided to keep it in there, peel the face off (don't want two vapor barriers), and put 3.5 inches of faced fiberglass insulation on top of it.
There's 5-6 inches of insulation in there now! I would have loved to use the newer Roxul brand rockwool on instead of the fiberglass on top, but I'm not very wealthy (that Roxul is $65-$70 a pack).
So, unfortunately I don't have a fire retardant insulation UNTIL the fire melts through the fiberglass first, haha, but it's better than nothing.
I did manage to get Roxul in the ceilings for soundproofing though. Boy is that stuff easy to work with.
It's going to be toasty in the basementg this Winter!
I used to work for an insulating company when I was a teenager. I learned that cellulose was a really good fire retardant and insulator when sprayed in unfinished walls, but it loses its fire-retardant qualities when blown dry into finished walls.
This is great to see what happens in a fire! I too wanted you to have a mask on. But what I really am disappointed about is that you didn't show sheep's wool!!!!! Wool is the least toxic and maybe the most un-flammable. I can't get my felted wool to burn at all!!! It does not ignite, let alone give off incredibly toxic smoke. This is what I will use in my tiny house!! Thank you for your demo!
that sounds like an amazing material for what we need. Does it have any disadvantages besides the fact you need a heard of sheep to insulate a house?
@@aion2177 expensive
Burning wool can release cyanide believe it or not
Thanks for a very informative demonstration. It would have been nice if a sample typical of strawbale construction (ie densely packed and encased in plaster ) had been demo'd.
There is a great deal of interest world-wide due to straw being touted as a green/sustainable material, that interest perhaps being greater in Europe than North America where it is being used in urban high-rises .
At the densities recommended for building,,when exposed to open flame,the straw simply smoulders rather than bursts into flame as one might expect.
However, the straw is typically protected by wet-applied plaster typically to a thickness that provides a multi-hour (ie 3 or more) fire rating as per ASTM.
this man has no problem just blazing up pure shit in his face
I agree. This man is a blockhead.
makes smoking crack look harmless
It's a one time demonstration, it will make zero difference. I breathed far worse on top of coke ovens and that was every day and with me having to use a respirator.
Tyler P 😂😂😂
Based on this video I bought Greenfiber insulation from Lowe’s for my wood fired oven enclosure. I had already insulated with perlite but ran a little short so I finished filling the enclosure (made of steel studs, cement board walls and a 14 gauge steel roof) making sure to keep the Greenfiber 6” away from the double wall stainless steel stove pipe. After cooking my first pizza In the oven the enclosure began to smolder and has been doing so for three days now. There is very little ventilation in the enclosure so all day yesterday I keep a canvas tarp over the enclosure and keep it wet all day hoping to smother out the fire. I took it off last night and smoke still poured out of the venting areas. Using this crap was a big mistake on my part I should have just added more perlite which is made from volcanic rock. Now I’ll have to wait until it quits burning, remove the the roof, remove the burnt Greenfiber and add perlite. What a PITA!
Never do anything based on a TH-cam video
Not all cellulose can be judged the same. Cellulose has been used since around the 50's. The old house I live in recently had a fire start directly in the insulation by nothing more than a spark. This is just a warning for anyone that has an older house with cellulose, the older stuff has definite fire potential!!
I don't think it would be a good choice if you live in a termite prone area either.
The 24 floor "Grenfell" apartment building in London just burnt down. So far 12 people have died. They had recently finished putting foam panels on the exterior of the building. I can't believe how professional engineers and architects would be so oblivious to this hazard!
Depends what you mean by "foam". Not all foams are the same & as the above tests show, they burn differently,. So far, no-one has confirmed what insulation was actually used in Grenfell House (as opposed to what was specified). Seems the fire had something to do with how flammable the aluminium composite cladding was & the way it was all fitted. The foam was separated from the cladding by an air gap that may have accelerated the fire.
@@robinstokes5179 the 'foam' used is as follows: "composition: a polyethylene core sandwiched between aluminium sheets."... a cheaper alternative was chosen to save money, which clearly has cost many lives. Polyethylene is referred to as SOLID PETROL. "known for its high insulating properties."
@@shanehammond Yup, wrong place for that material.
Try this test on a thick piece of wood, lightning it from the top and the result would be the same. Most of these insulations burn like crazy. In our area we had a lot of pur and pir fires. Pir was also used in Grenfell Tower in London.
I wish you had also tested expanded cork and compared it to foams for fireproofness and smoke. Some of those fumes are deadly, you should have had protection on.
That is true. If you FAIL to extinguish it, it will burn to the ground BUT I think the point here is this: If you have a quality foam that does not allow the fire to burn QUICKLY THROUGH the walls, then you technically have MORE time TO EXTINGUISH it. Holding back the spread of fire is a worthy calculation in choosing insulation...
Todays modern homes that are prefab balloon construction are basically "disposable", under fire conditions the floors and roofs collapse quickly, stairs are only rated for 5 mins under fire loads making them only good for escape. the truss members in the roofs and joists in the floors are made of laminates that are wood chips bound with epoxy and polyurethane resins that under elevated temps give up any structural property they had. insulation will help with escape times but it is unfortunately not going to help much with the extinguishing aspect
Rock/Glass-wool is common in Germany. Rock wool performs much better during installation, because glass wool (especially cheap one) looses lots of tiny particals while moving which go in your lung. "Noobs" use polyurethane foam. :-) Polystyrene plates were THE trend of the last years (because of very agressive marketing campaigns), but it has too many disadvantages (in my opinion). I would definitely recommend rock wool.
+Dan Lekin yes! same thing in Holland... Its not the product but the marketing that has brought the "new cool thing"... rock wool is the best I have ever worked with till I bumped into Hemp.
In Australia we don't have fibreglass with Kraft paper bonded to it so that's not a fire problem for us.
There have been an occasional problem in the past with cellulose burning or smoldering, but this is because it was not manufactured to the correct standard. Cellulose has been covered by a standard since 1986. The product has changed since the 50s and the additives have changed and are much better.
We have fire tested old cellulose that was installed probably in the 80s that had been saturated with rainwater from a roof leak. The fire test was still perfect.
People should start looking at effective insitu thermal ratings rather than labelled insulation ratings as this is an important consideration when looking at insulation products. All Australian products have a zero spread of flame if manufactured correctly.
Effective insulation is the labelled R rating adjusted for climatic and installed conditions. All insulation has effective R ratings lower than their labelled R ratings some products there is only a small difference and some products there is a huge difference especially if high insulation ratings are required.
Best explanation about heat exposure to insulation that I've seen yet. One thing to keep in mind though is that even in a fire, if the insulation is kept away from oxygen it may only melt instead of burning so the smoke might not be as bad but that doesn't mean that the chemicals have become inert. Quite the opposite, you may just have a puddle of ignition ready goo left after the fire.
Excelant video though. Maybe you should wright an ASTM test based on it. These are important things to know about any building material.
This is the video that convinced me to buy a few bats of mineral/rock wool to add to my new room addition in my house. One thing I learned when I put in rock wool is that it has a little more higher R value per inch than fiberglass.
I had a radiant ceiling heat short out in my attic last night and start a fire. The electrical connection which was the source of the short was buried in cellulose. The cellulose burned consistently but slowly. The burning materiel smelled a lot like nail polish remover and I thought the kids had spilled some. However when I went looking, I found the insulation int he attic smoking and when I pulled it up it was had red hot coal clumps burning which were actually difficult to extinguish. A lot like a sponge burning from the inside would be hard to put out. The parts of the material that were not burning prevented the water from reaching the parts that were burning. It was absolutely NOT self extinguishing. One shorted wire for a few seconds was enough to start a fire that was smoldered for hours spreading using the CELLULOSE insulation as a fuel. I was lucky i caught it early before much damage could be done. My insulation is about 30 years old and I suspect the flame retardant chemically broke down over that time. I tried some experiments with some fiber glass insulation and the cellulose insulation from my attic. With the cellulose, the fire spreads once the torch is removed but with the fiberglass the fire goes out once the torch is removed. Also since the fiberglass melts and opens up, any water sprayed on it would go right to the fire instead of preventing the flow of water like the cellulose.
I am pulling all the cellulose out of my attic and replacing it with a material that , over the years, I have confidence will maintain its properties and consequently is a superior material in the long run considering safety. I should also note that there have been a few other house fires in my area recently. I suspect that since all the houses were built about 30 years ago by the same builder using the same materials, that the insulation in those homes also caught fire after the radiant heat failed.
+Brad Seager ?? Why does Cellulose insulation smell. It's because they add a sweet smelling sterilizing agent to it to reduce the former waste paper bedding smell (its mostly sold for animal bedding), when collected from waste paper warehouses and dumpsters behind shops it can contain germs, ants, insects, mice, rats and wildlife droppings, so for public safety reasons it must go under the squirted on liquid sterlizor sprayer . Too much sterilizor can go in in one area because the conveyot belts stopped for a paper jam, and other areas can go untreated. Its waste paper called Cellulose a trade name to improve its image and value. Now you know.
thats one WAY BS claim right there folks! ^^ "sweet smelling sterilizing agent"???? bwhahahahaha! .."ok" sheesh
Thank you for contributing your interesting story. Rarely is any study conducted on old materials; rather, only on new materials that are currently being sold. So you have me wondering about my borate-treated cellulose attic insulation. I never dreamed that such a simple fire-retardant could deteriorate (it also deters termite infestation of the insulation itself), and I remain skeptical but respectful of your essay.
Was cellulose insulation fireproofed 30 years ago? Maybe not. Seems unlikely that borate would deteriorate in this way.
My compliments on Larry's easy-to-take delivery. He's thorough and accurate. He ought to take up a night job as an MLB radio broadcaster! Keep up the great work, Larry. But I worry about any smoke you might inhale, during your demonstrations. Rumor has it that isocyanurate turns to cyanide gas at high temperatures.
if that were true than i have an extremely high tolerance to cyanide.i have had to scrape structual fireproofing out of the web of i beams many times to weld this or that.nothing would be scraped from the other side or any where else i wasnt welding so the far side of the web would be just uner 2000 f roughly.its not pleasant smelling ,sometimes it will make you hack and cough but i havent died yet.one thing i know will kill you is welding steel that has lead based paint on it.take my word on that one.
Really cool stuff
Oh and as I geology major I can confirm rock wool is amazing stuff and great use of what would otherwise be thrown out.
Next time can you do vertical testing. I'm thinking of the Grenfell tower block in London that went up in flames with many deaths.
Nice to see the detailed video about the NON-resistant insulation Materials. Thanks
I would choose Mineral Wool. Such an awesome fire proof material.
Like asbestos?
@@humansvd3269 But safe and non toxic.
@@Naturenerd1000 I just replied to a 6 year old comment, then got a quick reply. Lol.
Lol at that background music while putting a dozen kinds of insulation on fire indoors 😂
Curious if there are any insulation experts out there. I am wondering about the safety of the foam insulations. In the video, he shows that most of the foams self extinguish when the heat is removed. My questions is, if you don't have an electrical-caused fire in a bad box or something in a wall, then presumably, you have an already burning fire that has reached the insulation. In a case like that, the heat source would never be removed since the damn house is on fire. Shouldn't that variable be considered? A fire origination outside of the wall and working its way in? That foam lights up, man!
The old insulation in my attic was blow in wool insulation. Highly flammable so I burned it in my fireplace to dispose of it when I put in new insulation.
THANK YOU for posting this! It was exactly what I needed to know and see for myself! Much appreciated 👍
yeah Rockwool wins no fire retardant chemicals needed it just doesn't burn and it's environmentally friendly
it also has a high U-value which is bad for insulation.
calthmlikiseethm
fire retardant on foam plastics is a water based paints with very low voc. not more chemicals then then anything else in a house
and it also causes cancer
Twatted - Suggest you look up what U-value is as rock wool doesn't have a U value by itself. That is a structures insulation which takes into account all the materials and the construction. Any batt-type insulation isn't going to be as good as well applied spray insulation simply due to the edges and reality of dealing with wires, pipes and other aspects that allow for small gaps where the spray insulation can make everything air-tight but you have a lot of other issues (like fire). Folks building air-tight homes will often used an initial layer of 2" closed cell with rock wool over that.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2711883/
Thanks so much for this video and taking the time to put this video together!!! This is one of the most informative videos so far and saved me lots of research! Really appreciate how much this helped me! ✨
When a house caches fire it will go on framing not jump from insulation to another insulation. The foam is pretty much stupid it melts BUT it doesn't really stop the fire but the recycled paper is so much better it doesn't really burn and this will not give a fire a room to breath!!!
+Nel Edora You're right. BUT as far as an insulating product goes, it is not stupid at all. Dense-pack cellulose insulation can be conveniently installed around beams, old insulation...and most importantly...around current fixtures...without having to re-wire the house. Because cellulose insulation is more fire-retardant, you are less likely to have a fire caused by a wire short. The majority of house fires are caused by kitchen incidents, smoking in bed, and faulty wires. Any insulation wouldn't stop the first two causes.
@Juniper2276, that is why it became forbidden to install wires exposed in Sweden. Must be wired through PVC tubing which prevents wire shortening from performing fire risk. The PVC pipe can allow a wire to burn from socket to fuse without creating a fire as consequence. *Nod*
Not to mention, super easy to change wires out without having to knock walls down. And less risk of driving a screw right through the wires.
great and informative video... was always worried about GPS foam... especially knowing how direct flames affect EPS...
What about sheeps wool. It is available in the UK as an "Eco" alternative.
There was a case where someone had an infestation of moths by using wool but suspect it was a one off
rockwool isn't from "slag" it's part of that, majority of it is besalt which is very abundant on earth as it is volcanic rock.. found all over. A small part of slag is mixed in for the process of rock wool
Great demonstration video. "Don't try this at home" kind of thing and there should be over 1million views by now. I was totally surprised by how the cellulose resisted the fire. In consideration of the "fire triangle" concept, those insulation materials that flamed up only when the torch was applied demonstrate that in a real building fire, the surrounding extreme heat, combined with available oxygen would cause those substanecs to contribute to the fire. I was actually dissapointed to see how poorly the XPS performed with flames continuing even after the torch was taken away. Go with rock wool or spray foam with the thermal barrier top coating.
Wow! Would've expected a different result. Thank you!
If you hit a 2x4 from above with a blow torch it would go out after a few seconds.
I think some of these would stay lit if ignited from below.
You could also put the samples on a charcoal grill for a more difficult test.
I have personally inspected house with cellulose fibre that was installed over 22 years ago - still completely fireproof - the insulation was levelled to the rafters with a fine crust on top preventing movement by wind. Very neat and tidy as well.
This is the Warnings given to Cellulose installers : Cellulose insulation is manufactured from shredded waste paper to manufacture loft insulation, installers are advised to completely protect themselves from coming into any kind of skin contact with the product or dust - to wear safety glasses with side shields, face mask or respirator, gloves, long tight sleeves, long pants and a hat kept in place with a hair net. Cellulose insulation is synthesized chiefly from recycled newspapers. The additional components it may include are binders, skin irritants, fire retardants, ammonium sulfate, sulfuric acid, borax, boric acid, and other chemicals. Cellulose insulation presents serious health hazards if inhaled, k/as dust asthma etc, and finally, it may also carry potential cancer causing agents or carcinogens associated with the original waste paper source and printers inks. Eventually the product does settle 40% under its own weight so extra material allowances for this must be made.
That warning suits for all insulation.
Test asbestos! I hear that's a pretty good insulator!
Asbestos doesn't burn. I think the space shuttle has asbestos tiles for reentry to atmosphere.
DURRRRRR
@@rekless1875 it had silica ceramic tiles
Asbestos is a good insulator,but it is a carcinogen when you breath in the small fibers you will be at risk for lung cancer and you could die from asbestosis.
@@richy5913 r/woooosh
Your video makes me feel a lot better about my insulation. Great
I am really happy now that i went with roxul rock wool insulation .Great informative video
Look video how rockwool works with water and for sure you get second thought.
sissy murphy i think the fire (smoke) will kil you faster then the water. Rockwool has a superb quality when it came to fire, sound and heat insulation. Glava is a cheaper alternative but it has som problems. a smal fire wil cause the foam to fill the house with life-thretening gasses. Rockwool, nope..
Mr. Wizeguy I tried looking for videos where rock insulation performed poorly with water but I couldn't.
I think Mr. Wizeguy was confusing the blown-in cellulose in the video with rock wool.
Nice! Next, I wanna see this test done with Roxul rock wool insulation batts. (EDIT: Yep, there it is starting at 13:25, thanks!)
Take a drink everytime Larry says uh :)
just joking I use this video as a reference when considering insulation for different things.
I wonder if the AirKrete is actually made of Chrysotile? That would explain its fire resistance and still available since the US still has not banned the mineral iirc.
Nice video but I wish he had mention where to get the heat thermal barrier foam that expands that seem like a the best one for me.
+Dr. Energy Saver, Have you fire tested vermiculite insulation in this same way? How did it compare to the Rock Wool If you have. Thanks for taking the time to view my question.
Far and away the best video on this subject. Thanks.
Glad to know that about blown in cellulose insulation. Have it in my house.
One easy question: Wich one of them isolation will you use in your childrens room?
Can you try to burn hempcrete ? It is supposed to be fireproof and is supposed to be a natural insulation material too. They build entire walls with it. Would love to know how it performs in this test
I have a question for you. I blew in atticat in my attic but I forgot to cover the water hot lines, should I be OK for the insulation won't catch fire! Thanks
I think the Rockwool batt should also be included in the clear winners list.
Ross Kestle try aerogel
I remember a stove from the 1930s I took apart had a ceramic I think insulation around the oven. Put a torch to it. It got orange but wasn't burned at all.
Dear Dr. EnergySaver, your test shows some variation in ignition properties, but except for the cellulose it does not even come close to showing how these materials behave in an actual building fire. In NFPA building fire test conditions foam did not self-extinguish, and the test room became an inferno in less than a minute; while after 15 minutes of fire exposure cellulose insulation still did not melt, collapse, or flashover. here is a link to a short video of the test - th-cam.com/video/mUPp-Ipt-Pk/w-d-xo.html
Great demonstration .
I guess the rock-wool is not hermetic, so the healthy one , thermic protector , and by using safety protective gear anyone can install it .
The fire term is whether it “supports combustion” or not. If you remove the fire source, does it self extinguish? I.E. Avoids spread of fire. As to the color of smoke, the general rule is all smoke is bad for health and black smoke is the most deadly. In as much as your instinct says obtain fire conditioned materials, I would be leery just to trust it. Does it out gas under sun heat and humid conditions? Insulation is a very large mass of materials, so it matters what you are exposed to in mass inside your home.
If I were to build new, I would go with insulating the outside so those materials remain on the exterior and breath to the exterior. Matt Risinger from the Build Show has real life examples of this. I would also use a sealing membrane from Prosoco that literally is a monolithic water barrier that envelopes the exterior. Matt has several videos on that as well and are very jaw dropping to finally see a product that is a real solution the industry has wanted for decades.
As I watch Mike Holms show the best way to build your house is with foam insulation or Rock wool.
Also treat lumber with fire retardant. This way the house wouldn't burn. Yes you can spray this on older homes lumber.
is there any standard to provide fire rating durability for rock wool? in case we want to explain our rock wool can hold 3 hours on fire to our client. kindly advise
What do you recommend putting around a thimble plate in the wall for a pellet stove exhaust vent ?
I want the space shuttle tiles. We have seen want can happen if a few are missing on reentry. Think about how much heat they tolerate without transmitting the heat to inside the shuttle.
Can the iso board be inside home? I'm thinking of putting it on a ceiling & then wallpaper or 1/4 plywood/breadboard. I have no attic.
Great test but What about Resistance test report : pressure, tearing, sealing ... and application.
Very much appreciate your video, one option I didn't see you test was cellular glass insulation (eg Foamglas). Do you think you could redo your video with a quick same test of that type of insulation?
Salute to you sir for the wonderful work! You must have inhaled too much poisonous gas to make this video ...
Do you by chance know if the pink fiberglass gives off any harmful fumes when burning? Ive been using it as a wick in an alcohol stove because it doesn't seem to burn ( 1qt paint can, stuffed full of pink insulation, filled with rubbing alcohol till it's saturated) you light it and it makes a great little heater.... IF IT IS SAFE. Found this video while researching this question. Thank you.. good info
Why is rockwool not popular in USA? it does not melt easily as glasswool. And it can be made more rigid.
Would have loved to see cellular glass insulation performance !
(Foamglas perhaps )
Recessed lights. Is there really a fire danger in the attic from insulation? I don’t believe LED bulbs get hot?
very informative i was asking myself the same question what iff it burns???
I arrived at this video while trying to fine some kind of insulation that is fire retardant, but also breathable. I'm going to line the top of a small ammo can where LiPo batteries are stored. Then the lid will be drilled/vented in a few places just in case one of the batteries ever catches on fire there is no pressure build-up and thus no risk of explosion. However, I need a layer of fire retardant insulation that can contain the fire but let a bit of air through the vents in order to let pressure out. Any recommendations?
Danny Cruz Watch the video here. It will tell you.
+Danny Cruz Hempcreet is a great insulator, its breathable,fire retarded termite repellent on top of that if that is not enough.. ... it also absorbs CO'2 with aging and its just gets stronger by with time
I use 1/2 inch hardy backer whenever I want to create a fire containment enclosure. It works almost like refractory brick
+joblessalex
The video doesn't mention a thing about ventilation, just insulation that doesn't burn easily.
I wouldn't be all that concerned. If it's air tight to the point you're trying to vent pressure, it probably doesn't get enough air for a fire to exist in the first place
Hi Larry, what is your experience with hemp insulation when it comes to fore safety.
I’ve used the cellulose insulation in my house.
It’s good and cheap, and doesn’t burn. (Wonder if the flame retardant goes away over time?)
It is dusty as hell though!
Depending on the chemical used its fireproof properties can degrade
Rockwool,
Can it be put directly up against a vent in the wall?
i love this. concise and to the point
Hey, may I know how degree centigrade fire tested on that insulation?
I freaking love rock wool. My oldest kid cought the kitchen on fire, grease fire. It destroyed some drywall and very little damage to the studs. It burned for 26 mins tell a neighbor put it out. If not for rock wool that fire would have spread like my chilhood home.
Is that fire martial Bill? "Let me show you somethin'!"
lol
lol
Another important factor is the combustion byproducts of insulations. All he foam insulations will release dense, toxic smoke, even if they are flame retardant. Some foams, I think polyisocyanurate foams release a fair amount of hydrogen cyanide when burned. Doing a little research you can see large scale tests where foam insulation degraded in fire conditions and releases massive plumes of toxic black smoke. In fact foam insulation has claimed lives due to its toxic combustion byproducts.
Thank you Larry for uploading this video its been a a great help.
who else would subscribe to a channel where they just test how flammable things are.
Can you try this with sheep's wool insulation (like Oregon Shepherd's insulation)? I want to see how sheep's wool performs. :)
I agree that "This is not a scientific test" noted in the comments above. Although rock wool does have twice as high a temperature rating as fiberglass, 2000 degrees F vs 1000 degrees F, the temperature of a propane torch is easily 1000 degrees above common house fires. If the temperature is high enough to melt fiberglass behind gypsum board then your house is lost already.
Great video! Just before watching this video I watch a video about spray foam insulation. And it was making the homeowners sick. So the home owners had to live in mobile homes because their homes were too toxic. And unlivable.
Rigtig god brandtest det viser hvor stor brandmodstand i papirisolering
Claus Mikkelsen
Hotpaper Dk
You also have to understand that any burning to a product can ignite another part of the structure that participates in the fire.
Would blown insulation act the same as the fiberglass insulation?