Hello Belinda, I've been in the EPS industry for over 35 years and this is one of the top three best explanations of polymeric foams I've seen on youtube. I haven't seen an open-top block fill EPS block mold as you've shown in your video since the late seventies / early eighties. Great Job!
Hello, please I need reference websites that talks about EPS. My project is on EPS and google keeps giving me searches on styrofoams or XPS as expanded polystyrene (EPS) and it's so frustrating
this video was well researched and intelligently presented. a few comments. one of the things that they do to deter insect intrusion into foam insulation these days is to apply a borate coating on the surface. it doesn't prevent insects from boring into the insulation, but when they ingest the borate, they dehydrate and die. that said, after enough insects have "paid the price", eventually the borate coating is breached. one other feature about the different types of foam insulation is the coefficient of thermal expansion. eps has the lowest, xps is a little greater and polyisocyanurate is the largest (by about 50% as i recall). so, a large board would noticeably shrink in cold temperatures, opening up voids between the panels. since the insulation would sit behind cladding, you wouldn't typically see that. the story about polyisocyanurate losing its thermal properties at low temperatures is sort of a half truth, that got picked up and turned into a "whole truth" along the grapevine. there was a paper written around 2007, or so, entitled "analysis of variables in the determination of lambda/k-factor of construction insulations". what they found was that polyisocyanurate with a felt substrate showed a trend of increasing k-value at low temperatures. they did not observe that trend for polyisocyanurate with a foil substrate. the ultimate conclusion of the paper was that there were general problems with test methodologies for the determination of k-values of insulating materials. any of these foam insulation types can be a vapor barrier, depending on how thick the sheet is. for example, as i recall, xps is classified as a vapor barrier when the thickness is greater than one inch. you typically don't want to put a vapor barrier on the exterior of your wall in a heating climate, but advocates overcome these concerns by declaring that the continuous insulation increases the dew point temperature at the sheathing, with the objective of keeping the sheathing temperature above the dew point temperature so that you don't get condensation at the sheathing (thereby reducing the risk of mold growth). there are some assumptions built into that rationale. as an aside, one of my nits is seeing trademarks getting violated. "styofoam" is not the generic name for either eps or xps. it is a brand name for the blue xps insulation product sold by dow chemical company. in your video, you will notice that only the xps board made by dow chemical bears the name "styrofoam" (for what it's worth, i also get annoyed when people generically call a reciprocating saw a "sawzall").
Wow this is the best video I’ve ever seen comparing and describing EPS and XPS...could never fully understand the property differences and manufacturing processes..until now. Thank you!
@@videopipeline6419 could you please elaborate? Would help us viewers.. thank you! Edit: I saw you posted several other comments. If those are what you were referring to, then thank you and you can dismiss my comment!
@@Coolarj10 Yep, those are the key mistakes (feel free to "Like" them if they are helpful). The main source of the misleading info (reiterated by people who have a *little bit* of knowledge like the creator of this video) about polyiso having drastically reduced R-value is Owens Corning, which AFAIK doesn't manufacture any form of Polyiso foam. Also, not all materials cost the same in all parts of the US, because (especially with bulky materials like foam sheathing); it's highly dependent upon the location of the manufacturing plants, which are mostly in the eastern half of the US. Not all Polyiso is created equal. The example she chose, R-Max polyiso, which is stocked at some Home Depot stores in the western half of the USA, has much poorer cell structure consistency than Super Tuff-R or Thermax. Consumer grade polyiso sheathing like R-Max, Super Tuff-R or J-M AP Foil have FSK "Foil-Scrim-Kraft' facers, thus they have only a class C fire resistance rating. Commercial grades like Thermax have class A fire rating.
Once again, loving the information density in your videos! Just as a side note: after about 10 years of using XPS I've often seen sheets of it get too much UV-Radiation and from my experience it does indeed suffer from photodegradation. The outer layers become lighter in color and dissolve into a dust which has an unpleasant chemical odour, sticks to your skin and resists washing off. So make sure to have some sort of UV barrier between it and any gaps in roofing material or it will start to wear out
I am a person that believes in being very specific with detail. Old school, report who, what ,where, and when and sometimes why. Why is very important. Your doing a good job of reporting.
Extremely helpful. Question: If polyisosyanurate is not stable below 50degreesF, then where is the best use of this produce? Inside a structure? Thank you - great information.
Thank you for bringing this valuable information to the people. As a PHIUS Certified Passive House Builder I'm passionate about helping people to cut their carbon footprint.
Hi there, I am also working as an insulator but just from last 8 months in NZ, but from your videos i learn alot about the R value thing and pros and cons of materials thanks and keep it up its good for new comers.
Very nicely done. Be aware that EPS and XPS have not used HBCD since 2016. Also, XPS ("Styrofoam") does not contain air, it contains blowing agents that ARE subject to thermal drift over time. These blowing agents were HFCs such as R134a, but the XPS industry is working to replace these with other gasses.
"recyclable" is a misnomer of sorts. Recycling REQUIRES that the plastic be free of contamination. Thus, for example, food containers are not recyclable. In fact, contamination in a food container will turn a batch of polystyrene into useless junk. Similarly, a pizza box will destroy the utility of waste paper. Don't put even slightly dirty paper and/or plastic in the recycling bin.
Great video. Very well put together. A couple corrections. The XPS industry went through a blowing agent change with increased the cost by 20%. Polyiso is now cheaper. Polyiso has no thermal drift unless you are below -40 continuously. It will regain its original r value when temps rise. It has a .002 water absorption rate, same as XP’s,where EPS has a 2% absorption rate.
The XPS sample shown at 4:26 is certainly not Styrofoam; based on the colour, it is likely Foamular. Dupont's Styrofoam brand of XPS is generally dyed blue or grey for marketing, while Owens Corning's Foamular is dyed pink (as a tie to their pink-coloured glass fibre insulation). The sample is "actually XPS"; it is not "actually Styrofoam". Dow and DuPont merged in 2017; despite the caption at 4:28 and illustration at 5:27, the Styrofoam brand is now under the DuPont brand.
I've commented this before - I'd love to see you do a whole video on thermal drift in insulation materials. I think this is an under-appreciated topic among Architects and many are fooled by the high initial R-value of materials like polyiso. Thanks this is great!
@@RJG772That would be very interesting. Essentially a rate of R value decay. It would also be interesting to know if polyiso reaches a thermal drift steady state, and if so, how long it takes to reach the steady state.
Hi. I've used XPS (Foamular brand) and it is not even slightly resistant to sunlight. Leave it exposed and it will discolor and break down over the course of months. Take a sheet and put it in the sun with the black lettering face up. You'll soon have a three dimensional surface, with raised black lettering over a greyish background
Hello Belinda, thank you very much! This is very helpful for me in my bee hive insulation materials research. Knowing the differences in material properties is valuable as well as the global impact when it becomes waste material.
Your videos should be part of curriculum for real life application relatability and inspiration - I could see some being used for both highschool and college and trades. This is great. keep making great content!
EPS will hold water from personal experience. It's a bit misleading...the actual beads are water proof, however there is an air gap between them where water passes through and collects like a sponge. The upside is it can dry out too. Manufacturers will add a thin film to combat this. Last it is fragile and squashy and normally that's a bad thing when building stuff. XPS is not entirely water proof, but it's pretty much is, especially for thicker pieces. Just like EPS or poly (or any other plastic), UV will disintegrate it... it becomes powder, however there is a 'platina' effect, where the outside edge degrades, but protects the deeper part. It all comes down to water control though...you want to use EPS in similar places as fluffy insulation, but want more R value per inch and rigidity (garage doors comes to mind) and use XPS/poly as an air/water barrier (depends, but IMO on outside of structure is best and then it dries inside). I personally don't have a use for EPS...thin poly with foil on exteriors and XPS layered under it, then rockwool inside.
Im 72 and use to build homes. I now build unigue bird houses for Ace hardwares. GREAT INFORMATION. People who dont appreciate you are ignorant non educted in this field of insulation. GREAT INFO in my opinion
This is a great comparative look. I appreciate the lesson and will be watching your other videos as I want efficient homes to lower energy bills .R30 in roof with pink board in walls on a block building along with a vapor barrier in crawl space has amazed me already . Heat rarely goes on medium never sees high
We took out 20 year old EPS foam sheets from our cottage roof space. It was fitted in the rafters. Prior owners didn’t maintain the roof, it leaked and water got onto the foam. Mold grew on the surface, and ants were nesting in it. It’s been removed and rockwool and a vapor barrier going in. We removed it mostly to be able to inspect the roof plywood from inside to check for rot, but after it was out we decided R22 Rockwool would be a better choice. Had the roof not leaked, I’m sure there would have never been ants in it, they need water. But when an ant colony hatches inside your roof on a warm April afternoon, you’re ripping all of it out asap.
This is the second of your videos that I have watched. Thank you for your detailed description of these products and the pros and cons of each. Very helpful. Thank you. And, I am a new subscriber.
It's such a shame that despite its recyclability and huge worldwide usage, most PS is still thrown away rather than being recycled. I presume it's much more expensive to recycle than it is to manufacture. I *can* recycle it locally if I can transport it to a local recycling centre, but it's not collected in the same recycling bins as everything else. I feel that this is something that's often overlooked when mentioning that products are recyclable though - being physically recyclable is different to being practically recyclable.
I completely agree!! The huge disadvantage is the space PS occupies since it's 98% air. There's very little incentive to recycle it because the actual material is insignificant compared to the volume it occupies during transportation.
I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts more on insulation in general, covering the production, transportation, installation methods (some requiring additional structure/support/fire barriers, some being impossible to modify - vacuum panels), thermal drift over time/slump, usability of offcuts/waste, and eventual disposal/recycling. Natural wool insulation is often mixed with recycled plastic fibres making it non-recyclable/biodegradable. Should we be using that when we're gaining so much knowledge about the issue of microplastics? What the heck do we do with fibreglass insulation at the end of its life? Can any blown/loose insulation actually be recycled in any way?
@@BelindaCarr used polystyrene is recycled by compressing and then transporting to a re-blowing plant to make new polystyrene, this way less air is transported.
@@acciid In the UK there are facilities for this and it is used by larger companies that have volume. Sadly smaller waste streams go to land fill because the legislation for circular economies is not enforced. Put simple, most things are recyclable, but the political apatite is not.
Belinda, I have this video on speed dial...(jajajaja), I refer to it so often!!!....a little update info to share: New XPS panels are replacing HFC-134a with HFO blends for a big greenhouse gas reduction. In the case of panels made of extruded polystyrene (XPS)-a closed-cell foam suitable for wet or dry conditions-that gas has been hydrofluorocarbon-134a (HFC-134a). HFC-134a is a good blowing agent, but it has a GWP of 1,430, meaning it traps 1,430 times as much heat as carbon dioxide does over 100 years. As regulations seeking to eliminate HFC-134a take effect this year in Canada and the US, panel makers including Owens Corning and DuPont are switching their blowing agents to blends containing hydrofluoroolefins (HFOs). Additionally, GAF is now manufacturing a non-halogen Polyiso. As always, thank you very much for your channel....Architects are weird, when we walk into a party we are not checking out all the sexy people, we are checking out the alignment of the ceiling can lights and door details. When I pull an all-nighter, for a little break and distraction, I pull up one of your video. Yes, we are weird :)) Thanks again!
I found this video very educational. Your delivery of the information was on point and I absolutely loved the little jokes you threw in for fun. I can tell you really enjoy making these videos for others. Keep up your good work sharing the good vibes. Much love to you, dear.
Polyiso can be bought used, often marketed on Craigslist, bringing down the price by a lot. A friend wrapped his house and below grade foundation with it on the cheap.
Thank you for all the excellent details. I am using XPS to insulate our home, and I am more glad now than ever. Seems like the best option for the money. Really appreciate all of your work.
I work in a polyiso factory and it might be expensive but man is it tough. Also, we run test on it to see if it can withstand colder temperatures and it almost always passes in a negative 30 degree box.
One of the best videos on this topics. If you could/know to do a video on difference on paints (water, latex, oil...) and thinset in tile instalation it would be great. 👍
@@BelindaCarr Haha, yeah! Correction: EPS and XPS does not seem flammable. Yes, it loses its form, but as your demo shows on XPS the flame does not propagate, on the contrary, the flame extinguishes itself, this is called flame retardant. On your demo EPS did not even catch fire.
Good analysis on different insulations. I beg to differ about the claim that polystyrene is 100% recyclable. In foam or expanded form, especially used in packaging, PS causes huge environmental problems. The only plastic that has high recycling rates (above 80%) is PET. PE/PP follow with much lower recycling rates, but PS, PVC and all other plastics have near zero recycling rates; most plastics end up in landfills or, worse, discarded in the environment, polluting soil and water.
I am building a Timber frame house in Alaska. With a 5.5" wall cavity I'm using 1.5" and 2" XPS foam boards in 3 layers to create an R-25 wall with sheathing closer to R-28. I will layer 3" XPS on the roof deck in 4 layers to create an R-60 roof. So easy to work with. Cleaner than glass batt or Rockwood type Insulation. Using spray foam to seal any cracks this makes a super well sealed and insulated structure. I may heat the place with a candle? LOL 😂
there are things you can do to eps that will help with termites etc. I'm actually in the eps manufacturing business. and the beads are expanded here at our facility using heat & steam, none of the chemicals you refer to are used to expand the beads within the mold. we do have to off-gas our blocks after molding due to a chemical called Pentane that needs to be released. we do this in a hot room. There is actually some clips that you have used from my warehouse (starrfoam). most eps have a self extinguisher as well, so that if the foam does catch fire, it just as quickly puts it out.
This is the very first video I've watched of yours. I'm subscribing, simply because this is absolutely the best tutorial I've ever seen! Highly informative and entertaining, which my many years as a tutor have revealed are essential to the educational experience. You've got it!
HI Belinda, Thanks for sharing the video and your analysis. If you consider producing a second video on building insulation, the Polyisocyanurate Insulation Manufacturers Association (PIMA) and other building insulation trade associations would likely be interested in contributing information. The insulation industries have made several advancements in chemistries and technology that are not fully captured in your summary. Best, Justin, President, PIMA
@ 8:58 (cold temperature gas condensation) You are citing an old report from 2015, which is not applicable to most polyiso foam sheathing sold in the US today.
This was very useful for me. I didn't know about ants, and termites being attracted to it. I was planning on using it in a tropical country where ants and termites are a problem.
Could you please elaborate on why you think that polyiso is the least eco-friendly of the three? I have been assuming that polyiso is one of the better ones especially compared to XPS. Mostly because polyiso uses zero GWP blowing agent. It is also more efficient per inch therefor less material needed. XPS on the other hand uses HFC. EPS and XPS are 100% recyclable but it sounds like the actual rates of recycling are very low. So many factors to consider, but I love your videos. Thank you!
You mentioned that polyiso doesn't use blowing agents that contribute to global warming, so I'm curious, what makes it the worst environmentally? Are the chemicals really harsh on the environment? I've also heard (but don't trust this yet) that some XPS has started using impacting blowing agents that have lower global warming potentials. If that has indeed started changing, an update on this would be awesome, along with pointers to understand how to identify the XPS that are using less concerning blowing agents.
Good stuff. Something that gets missed in side by sides like this is that polyiso is much better because of how much pollution is reduced from the extra performance. That is the reason it's used commercially even though it costs about 50% more. Homeowners are simply to cheap to uses it.
Thank you for the insightful information. I wasn't aware that Expanded Polystyrene (EPS) is the most environmentally friendly option among the three alternatives, especially due to its production process that involves steaming. The fact that this process can be made even greener by utilizing electricity generated from renewable sources is encouraging. I'm relieved to learn that EPS doesn't contain any chemicals that could potentially leach into the ground, especially as I intend to use it subterraneously in a Ground to Air Heat Transfer System under a greenhouse. The issue of ants being attracted to and consuming polystyrene was unknown to me. Now that I'm aware of this, I can mitigate the problem by laying down a protective plastic sheet. Again Thank you
EXCELLENT EXCELLENT VIDEO!!!!! From watching your (and a couple of others) I have decided on using XPS for insulating the attic crawl space and walls of a ranch house. However, I do know for a fact that according to code I must have an R30 or approx 6" of foam. Spray foam, Rockwool, fiberglass, etc... is not time/cost-effective in my case. Buying 6" foam is also very expensive. Gluing 2" foam sheets X3 together is much cheaper. With that being said, I am having WIDE CONFUSION on which construction adhesive is best to use for this application. It is down to 3M SUPER 77 spray and GORILLA GLUE SUPER CONSTRUCTION (which can be used on XPS) (caulk type dispensed). I trust your wisdom & judgment. You have been right on the mark with everything in construction. How do you see their pros and cons?? Keep up the GREAT VIDEOS!!!
I recently bought a 2" Polyiso board to test fit my garage door, primarily to keep the cold from penetrating inside the garage . Our winters here are much colder than 50F, looks like I'll be returning that Polyiso back to Home depot .
I always thought Poly ISO was the most environmentally sensable alternative with no off gassing. We use it on all of our construction projects as wood fibre insulation is not readily available everywhere. We have wraped homes with it, applied it in stud bay cavities and use it on the exterior of rimjoists to reduce thermal bridging. We also use a Wallboarders buddy drywall cutter to score both sides and snap it so there is no construction waste to clean up. When considering price you mention cost per sheet but how does it compare to cost per square foot R value?
Thanks for the video. With Polyiso insulation how long does it take for the thermal drift to hinder the R value performance? What are the different elements that would acelerate the thermal drift in Polyiso insulation?
Thanks for these informative videos. It would be interesting to compare these to natural insulators such as cork. I realise that there is not enough cork grown for industrial construction worldwide, but would still be of interest on specialised builds and reworking old buildings that only contain natural materials.
I love the information, and the way it's presented. That South Park clip just helped me choose to subscribe. We're buying our first house, and just trying to get hip to the lingo and way things are made. Thank you!
I bought a 4x8 foot wooden shed that gets hot in the summer, and I’m thinking of using polyisocyanurate to insulate the shed. Haven’t really decided yet , I can very well put the shed in my patio and the sun never hits it. This would severely reduce how hot it gets in there.
I would disagree that XPS "does not deteriorate in sunlight". I have noticed that it most certainly does. Wherever sunlight is on it for a few months it seems to develop a powder on the part exposed that you can brush off. This has to be reducing the mass and would be significant if it were left exposed, say at the top of an exterior basement wall along grade. A recent building package that I ordered required me to store the panels until they were used on the exterior so they were stacked in a dry area with a roof over them but the sun could reach their stacked edges from the side. You could see the above change after six months stored like that. I also seem to notice that the cheap EPS coolers tend to fall apart after a season or so use in the sun. Don't know what is going on there but it is definitely noticeable. As you say PolyIso really degrades in sunlight turning a darker brownish color and powdering up. Even used stuff that has been in the building envelope and protected from U\V when taken down has changed in the same way over a greater period of time. The corners so much that they are 'rounded' off from their original ninety degrees. What I have seen is not damage but just deterioration on these recycled panels.
Belinda, just came across your videos. I would say they are informative in depth and the very best I've viewed on TH-cam . You've got me, subscribed. VERY WELL DONE.
Thanks Belinda! I’m going to build an outbuilding and had considered different insulation options, but your thorough examination of a variety of insulation products has really helped me. Thank you!!!
That was most comprehensive, thank you. I have need to know these things. I intend building my own Tiny House. (2 x 2.5 x 6 metres) I did start with the shipping container idea and realised it was impractical as it cost so much to be delivered and it's life expectancy was lower than mine. I have heard the other down sides from your videos and others. I thought caravan, but they have little insulation in winter, get damp and are not too stable on their own, plus well - I've tried living in a caravan, okay for the summer months, but you lose money on heating them during winter when the temperature drops and where I live in North West England it drops a lot. So I came up with a modular system based on a caravan base that is expanded on location ( so it complies with Mobile home restrictions). I'm still trying to configure the insulation and work out the heating costs for 5 months of the year which will be cold, 3 bitterly so. Roofing tiles that retain heat, solar panels that aren't an eyesore and land ownership for a small plot, say half an acre - (2023.43 metres). This area allows for the home and room to grow my own food, plus build a shed for working in - (building cycle trailers and campers).
Just some thoughts: Roofing tiles won't help because they are outside of your insulation. Thermal mass is not really something you can achieve, sans something like thick Soviet concrete construction, and that's a problem for THOWs due to trailer capacity.
Belinda, thank you for your explanation of the three foam products that are being used in so many different applications. I got my start in molding EPS foam blocks 59 years ago in Grand Rapids, MI. I recall the block molding machine (Kurtz) that Steve Buchanan commented on that represented old technology compared to today. It was one of the best available in the '70s and was so far advanced from our home-built block molds. By the way, in the 25 years that I was in this business, all our EPS was impregnated with n-pentane as the blowing agent. Wish you well. Mike Allen
Owen Corning's pink XPS has greatly reduced HFC's (hydrofluorocarbons) in manufacturing with the new foam being labeled as "NGX" but it is still an XPS, just with a different mix of blowing agents. The cost went up with the reduction in HFC's. Probably other XPS manufacturers are doing the same, since this change is in response to new regulations.
Hello Belinda, I've been in the EPS industry for over 35 years and this is one of the top three best explanations of polymeric foams I've seen on youtube. I haven't seen an open-top block fill EPS block mold as you've shown in your video since the late seventies / early eighties. Great Job!
Were those particular foam blocks for surf board blanks?
Hello, please I need reference websites that talks about EPS. My project is on EPS and google keeps giving me searches on styrofoams or XPS as expanded polystyrene (EPS) and it's so frustrating
Hi Belinda I see over my 40 years of experience EPS is the best product, but I need your professional advice about this what do you think
Wow, I learned more about insulation in these 5 minutes than my whole life. Thank you!
Thank you for watching!
WOW ME TOO - Thank you for this video!
this video was well researched and intelligently presented.
a few comments. one of the things that they do to deter insect intrusion into foam insulation these days is to apply a borate coating on the surface. it doesn't prevent insects from boring into the insulation, but when they ingest the borate, they dehydrate and die. that said, after enough insects have "paid the price", eventually the borate coating is breached.
one other feature about the different types of foam insulation is the coefficient of thermal expansion. eps has the lowest, xps is a little greater and polyisocyanurate is the largest (by about 50% as i recall). so, a large board would noticeably shrink in cold temperatures, opening up voids between the panels. since the insulation would sit behind cladding, you wouldn't typically see that.
the story about polyisocyanurate losing its thermal properties at low temperatures is sort of a half truth, that got picked up and turned into a "whole truth" along the grapevine. there was a paper written around 2007, or so, entitled "analysis of variables in the determination of lambda/k-factor of construction insulations". what they found was that polyisocyanurate with a felt substrate showed a trend of increasing k-value at low temperatures. they did not observe that trend for polyisocyanurate with a foil substrate. the ultimate conclusion of the paper was that there were general problems with test methodologies for the determination of k-values of insulating materials.
any of these foam insulation types can be a vapor barrier, depending on how thick the sheet is. for example, as i recall, xps is classified as a vapor barrier when the thickness is greater than one inch. you typically don't want to put a vapor barrier on the exterior of your wall in a heating climate, but advocates overcome these concerns by declaring that the continuous insulation increases the dew point temperature at the sheathing, with the objective of keeping the sheathing temperature above the dew point temperature so that you don't get condensation at the sheathing (thereby reducing the risk of mold growth). there are some assumptions built into that rationale.
as an aside, one of my nits is seeing trademarks getting violated. "styofoam" is not the generic name for either eps or xps. it is a brand name for the blue xps insulation product sold by dow chemical company. in your video, you will notice that only the xps board made by dow chemical bears the name "styrofoam" (for what it's worth, i also get annoyed when people generically call a reciprocating saw a "sawzall").
Picking up on your last point, going back to the late 70's a friend's mother used to call all computers IBMs.
Wow this is the best video I’ve ever seen comparing and describing EPS and XPS...could never fully understand the property differences and manufacturing processes..until now. Thank you!
She got the basics correct, but made several key mistakes that may mislead people.
@@videopipeline6419 could you please elaborate? Would help us viewers.. thank you!
Edit: I saw you posted several other comments. If those are what you were referring to, then thank you and you can dismiss my comment!
@@Coolarj10 Yep, those are the key mistakes (feel free to "Like" them if they are helpful). The main source of the misleading info (reiterated by people who have a *little bit* of knowledge like the creator of this video) about polyiso having drastically reduced R-value is Owens Corning, which AFAIK doesn't manufacture any form of Polyiso foam. Also, not all materials cost the same in all parts of the US, because (especially with bulky materials like foam sheathing); it's highly dependent upon the location of the manufacturing plants, which are mostly in the eastern half of the US. Not all Polyiso is created equal. The example she chose, R-Max polyiso, which is stocked at some Home Depot stores in the western half of the USA, has much poorer cell structure consistency than Super Tuff-R or Thermax. Consumer grade polyiso sheathing like R-Max, Super Tuff-R or J-M AP Foil have FSK "Foil-Scrim-Kraft' facers, thus they have only a class C fire resistance rating. Commercial grades like Thermax have class A fire rating.
@@AdamA-pm3yn I'm sure that people who have chosen to be dumb*asses don't "GAF"
Once again, loving the information density in your videos!
Just as a side note: after about 10 years of using XPS I've often seen sheets of it get too much UV-Radiation and from my experience it does indeed suffer from photodegradation. The outer layers become lighter in color and dissolve into a dust which has an unpleasant chemical odour, sticks to your skin and resists washing off. So make sure to have some sort of UV barrier between it and any gaps in roofing material or it will start to wear out
PIR and PUR aren't that different in this particular aspect. Most polymers are vulnerable to UV.
These are simply excellent videos for the average DIY guy. Please keep them coming.
Great video. It's nice to hear somebody talk about foam who isn't either an installer or a GC.
I am a person that believes in being very specific with detail. Old school, report who, what ,where, and when and sometimes why. Why is very important. Your doing a good job of reporting.
It is a pleasure to listen to somebody who know their subject. Thank you for sharing.
I think us architect's should get education credits for watching your channel!😍
Best video on rigid foam insulation ever! Thank you!
Extremely helpful. Question: If polyisosyanurate is not stable below 50degreesF, then where is the best use of this produce? Inside a structure? Thank you - great information.
Thank you for bringing this valuable information to the people. As a PHIUS Certified Passive House Builder I'm passionate about helping people to cut their carbon footprint.
FINALLY some real objective information! After months of research this vid has had the best information to help my decision making. THANK YOU.
please continue this analyzing other insulators like batts, blown in cellulose, and 🤢spray foam🤢
yes, as well as rock-wool
Yeah this would be fantastic
@@timskufca8039 already has!
@@JohnSmith-kf1fc damn, I missed out on them then
Hi there, I am also working as an insulator but just from last 8 months in NZ, but from your videos i learn alot about the R value thing and pros and cons of materials thanks and keep it up its good for new comers.
Very nicely done. Be aware that EPS and XPS have not used HBCD since 2016. Also, XPS ("Styrofoam") does not contain air, it contains blowing agents that ARE subject to thermal drift over time. These blowing agents were HFCs such as R134a, but the XPS industry is working to replace these with other gasses.
"recyclable" is a misnomer of sorts. Recycling REQUIRES that the plastic be free of contamination. Thus, for example, food containers are not recyclable. In fact, contamination in a food container will turn a batch of polystyrene into useless junk. Similarly, a pizza box will destroy the utility of waste paper. Don't put even slightly dirty paper and/or plastic in the recycling bin.
Great video. Very well put together. A couple corrections. The XPS industry went through a blowing agent change with increased the cost by 20%. Polyiso is now cheaper. Polyiso has no thermal drift unless you are below -40 continuously. It will regain its original r value when temps rise. It has a .002 water absorption rate, same as XP’s,where EPS has a 2% absorption rate.
Please advise on adhesive to bond polyiso sheets. Desire to make floating dock 16" thick.
The XPS sample shown at 4:26 is certainly not Styrofoam; based on the colour, it is likely Foamular. Dupont's Styrofoam brand of XPS is generally dyed blue or grey for marketing, while Owens Corning's Foamular is dyed pink (as a tie to their pink-coloured glass fibre insulation). The sample is "actually XPS"; it is not "actually Styrofoam".
Dow and DuPont merged in 2017; despite the caption at 4:28 and illustration at 5:27, the Styrofoam brand is now under the DuPont brand.
I've commented this before - I'd love to see you do a whole video on thermal drift in insulation materials. I think this is an under-appreciated topic among Architects and many are fooled by the high initial R-value of materials like polyiso. Thanks this is great!
Yes!
agree. Can you do this? I would like to know Polyiso over 5 winter/summer seasons what the R value is in the 5th summer.
@@RJG772That would be very interesting. Essentially a rate of R value decay. It would also be interesting to know if polyiso reaches a thermal drift steady state, and if so, how long it takes to reach the steady state.
This is the second video I have watched and I already love you. So many things I did not know about materials I have been using for decades!
such an informative video...thank you for your knowledge!!
Hi. I've used XPS (Foamular brand) and it is not even slightly resistant to sunlight. Leave it exposed and it will discolor and break down over the course of months. Take a sheet and put it in the sun with the black lettering face up. You'll soon have a three dimensional surface, with raised black lettering over a greyish background
Wow. I was aware of everything BUT polyiso not working below 50°f. That's a real eye opener for the build I was planning. Thank you!
'Not working' was overstating it. Something like 25% less effective at 50 than at 75.
You didnt mention ants termites etc with the Polyiso. Does it attract or repel them? And what about PIR?
@BuildShow this is an excellent overview of the differences between: XPS, EPS as Poly-ISO foam boards.
You have no idea how valuable this video is to me. Thank you Belinda!
Hello Belinda, thank you very much! This is very helpful for me in my bee hive insulation materials research. Knowing the differences in material properties is valuable as well as the global impact when it becomes waste material.
Your videos should be part of curriculum for real life application relatability and inspiration - I could see some being used for both highschool and college and trades. This is great. keep making great content!
EPS will hold water from personal experience. It's a bit misleading...the actual beads are water proof, however there is an air gap between them where water passes through and collects like a sponge. The upside is it can dry out too. Manufacturers will add a thin film to combat this. Last it is fragile and squashy and normally that's a bad thing when building stuff. XPS is not entirely water proof, but it's pretty much is, especially for thicker pieces. Just like EPS or poly (or any other plastic), UV will disintegrate it... it becomes powder, however there is a 'platina' effect, where the outside edge degrades, but protects the deeper part. It all comes down to water control though...you want to use EPS in similar places as fluffy insulation, but want more R value per inch and rigidity (garage doors comes to mind) and use XPS/poly as an air/water barrier (depends, but IMO on outside of structure is best and then it dries inside). I personally don't have a use for EPS...thin poly with foil on exteriors and XPS layered under it, then rockwool inside.
Im 72 and use to build homes. I now build unigue bird houses for Ace hardwares. GREAT INFORMATION. People who dont appreciate you are ignorant non educted in this field of insulation. GREAT INFO in my opinion
This is a great comparative look. I appreciate the lesson and will be watching your other videos as I want efficient homes to lower energy bills .R30 in roof with pink board in walls on a block building along with a vapor barrier in crawl space has amazed me already . Heat rarely goes on medium never sees high
We took out 20 year old EPS foam sheets from our cottage roof space. It was fitted in the rafters. Prior owners didn’t maintain the roof, it leaked and water got onto the foam. Mold grew on the surface, and ants were nesting in it. It’s been removed and rockwool and a vapor barrier going in. We removed it mostly to be able to inspect the roof plywood from inside to check for rot, but after it was out we decided R22 Rockwool would be a better choice. Had the roof not leaked, I’m sure there would have never been ants in it, they need water. But when an ant colony hatches inside your roof on a warm April afternoon, you’re ripping all of it out asap.
This is the second of your videos that I have watched. Thank you for your detailed description of these products and the pros and cons of each. Very helpful. Thank you. And, I am a new subscriber.
It's such a shame that despite its recyclability and huge worldwide usage, most PS is still thrown away rather than being recycled.
I presume it's much more expensive to recycle than it is to manufacture. I *can* recycle it locally if I can transport it to a local recycling centre, but it's not collected in the same recycling bins as everything else.
I feel that this is something that's often overlooked when mentioning that products are recyclable though - being physically recyclable is different to being practically recyclable.
I completely agree!! The huge disadvantage is the space PS occupies since it's 98% air. There's very little incentive to recycle it because the actual material is insignificant compared to the volume it occupies during transportation.
I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts more on insulation in general, covering the production, transportation, installation methods (some requiring additional structure/support/fire barriers, some being impossible to modify - vacuum panels), thermal drift over time/slump, usability of offcuts/waste, and eventual disposal/recycling.
Natural wool insulation is often mixed with recycled plastic fibres making it non-recyclable/biodegradable. Should we be using that when we're gaining so much knowledge about the issue of microplastics?
What the heck do we do with fibreglass insulation at the end of its life?
Can any blown/loose insulation actually be recycled in any way?
@@BelindaCarr used polystyrene is recycled by compressing and then transporting to a re-blowing plant to make new polystyrene, this way less air is transported.
Right, but the average household doesn't have the equipment to compress it.
@@acciid In the UK there are facilities for this and it is used by larger companies that have volume. Sadly smaller waste streams go to land fill because the legislation for circular economies is not enforced. Put simple, most things are recyclable, but the political apatite is not.
There is also rock wool insulation boards. RW boards are quite rigid and comes in different weights; it’s nice because it has a nice fire rating.
Belinda, I have this video on speed dial...(jajajaja), I refer to it so often!!!....a little update info to share: New XPS panels are replacing HFC-134a with HFO blends for a big greenhouse gas reduction. In the case of panels made of extruded polystyrene (XPS)-a closed-cell foam suitable for wet or dry conditions-that gas has been hydrofluorocarbon-134a (HFC-134a). HFC-134a is a good blowing agent, but it has a GWP of 1,430, meaning it traps 1,430 times as much heat as carbon dioxide does over 100 years. As regulations seeking to eliminate HFC-134a take effect this year in Canada and the US, panel makers including Owens Corning and DuPont are switching their blowing agents to blends containing hydrofluoroolefins (HFOs). Additionally, GAF is now manufacturing a non-halogen Polyiso. As always, thank you very much for your channel....Architects are weird, when we walk into a party we are not checking out all the sexy people, we are checking out the alignment of the ceiling can lights and door details. When I pull an all-nighter, for a little break and distraction, I pull up one of your video. Yes, we are weird :)) Thanks again!
I found this video very educational. Your delivery of the information was on point and I absolutely loved the little jokes you threw in for fun. I can tell you really enjoy making these videos for others. Keep up your good work sharing the good vibes. Much love to you, dear.
Polyiso can be bought used, often marketed on Craigslist, bringing down the price by a lot. A friend wrapped his house and below grade foundation with it on the cheap.
Thank you for all the excellent details. I am using XPS to insulate our home, and I am more glad now than ever. Seems like the best option for the money. Really appreciate all of your work.
Loved the Nerdy part!
Edit: the whole video is amazing too. Just the Nerd part was refreshing
Great job. Keep doing this analysis
I work in a polyiso factory and it might be expensive but man is it tough. Also, we run test on it to see if it can withstand colder temperatures and it almost always passes in a negative 30 degree box.
in the video she stated not good below 50* that is crazy to me, that has to be wrong, and your comment proves that!
We really appreciate your nerd-outs, Belinda. This is a discussion well worth having. Thanks for making it so accessible.
Hello Belinda! At 7:45 you mentioned that Polyiso should never be used with an internal vapor barrier. I'm not sure what you mean by this.
One of the best videos on this topics. If you could/know to do a video on difference on paints (water, latex, oil...) and thinset in tile instalation it would be great. 👍
I just found your channel; I love the nerd factor. Awesome!
Nerds Unite! :)
Our Indian friends are sharp people.
@@BelindaCarr Haha, yeah!
Correction: EPS and XPS does not seem flammable. Yes, it loses its form, but as your demo shows on XPS the flame does not propagate, on the contrary, the flame extinguishes itself, this is called flame retardant. On your demo EPS did not even catch fire.
@@BelindaCarr awesome job
Outstanding performance! Information that every DYI installer should have before selecting materials. Had to view it twice to fully appreciate.
Good analysis on different insulations. I beg to differ about the claim that polystyrene is 100% recyclable. In foam or expanded form, especially used in packaging, PS causes huge environmental problems. The only plastic that has high recycling rates (above 80%) is PET. PE/PP follow with much lower recycling rates, but PS, PVC and all other plastics have near zero recycling rates; most plastics end up in landfills or, worse, discarded in the environment, polluting soil and water.
I am building a Timber frame house in Alaska. With a 5.5" wall cavity I'm using 1.5" and 2" XPS foam boards in 3 layers to create an R-25 wall with sheathing closer to R-28. I will layer 3" XPS on the roof deck in 4 layers to create an R-60 roof. So easy to work with.
Cleaner than glass batt or Rockwood type Insulation.
Using spray foam to seal any cracks this makes a super well sealed and insulated structure.
I may heat the place with a candle? LOL 😂
there are things you can do to eps that will help with termites etc. I'm actually in the eps manufacturing business. and the beads are expanded here at our facility using heat & steam, none of the chemicals you refer to are used to expand the beads within the mold. we do have to off-gas our blocks after molding due to a chemical called Pentane that needs to be released. we do this in a hot room. There is actually some clips that you have used from my warehouse (starrfoam). most eps have a self extinguisher as well, so that if the foam does catch fire, it just as quickly puts it out.
We would like to know about those "things" you mentioned for improvement...
Thank you!
if you have any info on what makes the different compressive types of EPS foam have their different bearing values please link the articles.
This is the very first video I've watched of yours. I'm subscribing, simply because this is absolutely the best tutorial I've ever seen! Highly informative and entertaining, which my many years as a tutor have revealed are essential to the educational experience. You've got it!
HI Belinda, Thanks for sharing the video and your analysis. If you consider producing a second video on building insulation, the Polyisocyanurate Insulation Manufacturers Association (PIMA) and other building insulation trade associations would likely be interested in contributing information. The insulation industries have made several advancements in chemistries and technology that are not fully captured in your summary. Best, Justin, President, PIMA
@ 8:58 (cold temperature gas condensation) You are citing an old report from 2015, which is not applicable to most polyiso foam sheathing sold in the US today.
i've read and listened to numerous comparisons of these materials. This one is perhaps the most succinct and useful.
This was very useful for me. I didn't know about ants, and termites being attracted to it. I was planning on using it in a tropical country where ants and termites are a problem.
These comparison are great.
Now we know for real what the heck is all about this materials once for all !
BRAVO !
I'm studying for the AREs and your videos have been so incredibly heplful! Thank you :)
Are there different densities of EPS? Isn't EPS used in floating docks? If so, does it repel water infiltration?
Beautiful, articulate and knowledgeable. Thank you for the information and superior presentation.
Could you please elaborate on why you think that polyiso is the least eco-friendly of the three? I have been assuming that polyiso is one of the better ones especially compared to XPS. Mostly because polyiso uses zero GWP blowing agent. It is also more efficient per inch therefor less material needed. XPS on the other hand uses HFC. EPS and XPS are 100% recyclable but it sounds like the actual rates of recycling are very low. So many factors to consider, but I love your videos. Thank you!
I really appreciate your work. I send these to clients to help them make informed decisions. I love your delivery thank you
Excellent video, been working as an architect for years, but never really understood the differences, thank you!
You mentioned that polyiso doesn't use blowing agents that contribute to global warming, so I'm curious, what makes it the worst environmentally? Are the chemicals really harsh on the environment?
I've also heard (but don't trust this yet) that some XPS has started using impacting blowing agents that have lower global warming potentials. If that has indeed started changing, an update on this would be awesome, along with pointers to understand how to identify the XPS that are using less concerning blowing agents.
It was an excellent video thanks
Loved the Up house snuck in there
Good stuff. Something that gets missed in side by sides like this is that polyiso is much better because of how much pollution is reduced from the extra performance. That is the reason it's used commercially even though it costs about 50% more. Homeowners are simply to cheap to uses it.
Thank you for the insightful information. I wasn't aware that Expanded Polystyrene (EPS) is the most environmentally friendly option among the three alternatives, especially due to its production process that involves steaming. The fact that this process can be made even greener by utilizing electricity generated from renewable sources is encouraging. I'm relieved to learn that EPS doesn't contain any chemicals that could potentially leach into the ground, especially as I intend to use it subterraneously in a Ground to Air Heat Transfer System under a greenhouse. The issue of ants being attracted to and consuming polystyrene was unknown to me. Now that I'm aware of this, I can mitigate the problem by laying down a protective plastic sheet. Again Thank you
What is the process for producing Pre-Expandable beads (Polystyrene)? You mentioned Benzene ring and Styrene (ethylene).
EXCELLENT EXCELLENT VIDEO!!!!! From watching your (and a couple of others) I have decided on using XPS for insulating the attic crawl space and walls of a ranch house. However, I do know for a fact that according to code I must have an R30 or approx 6" of foam. Spray foam, Rockwool, fiberglass, etc... is not time/cost-effective in my case. Buying 6" foam is also very expensive. Gluing 2" foam sheets X3 together is much cheaper. With that being said, I am having WIDE CONFUSION on which construction adhesive is best to use for this application. It is down to 3M SUPER 77 spray and GORILLA GLUE SUPER CONSTRUCTION (which can be used on XPS) (caulk type dispensed). I trust your wisdom & judgment. You have been right on the mark with everything in construction. How do you see their pros and cons?? Keep up the GREAT VIDEOS!!!
Ok. I just like your work. Second video I have watched. Detailed research and great presentation.
Wow this is one of the better channels I've seen on TH-cam. Definitely gained a sub 👍
I recently bought a 2" Polyiso board to test fit my garage door, primarily to keep the cold from penetrating inside the garage . Our winters here are much colder than 50F, looks like I'll be returning that Polyiso back to Home depot .
I always thought Poly ISO was the most environmentally sensable alternative with no off gassing.
We use it on all of our construction projects as wood fibre insulation is not readily available everywhere. We have wraped homes with it, applied it in stud bay cavities and use it on the exterior of rimjoists to reduce thermal bridging. We also use a Wallboarders buddy drywall cutter to score both sides and snap it so there is no construction waste to clean up.
When considering price you mention cost per sheet but how does it compare to cost per square foot R value?
You are brilliant. I love your explanations. Super informative.
I really enjoy your video's! Thanks!
Could you make a video about SIP panels? I am interested about your opinion😊
Thanks for the video. With Polyiso insulation how long does it take for the thermal drift to hinder the R value performance? What are the different elements that would acelerate the thermal drift in Polyiso insulation?
EPS and XPS are two document formats. Encapsulated Postscript and XML Paper Specification. Someone needs to make a document format named Polyiso.
Thank you for making this educational video. I would have never thought these marerials would be sensitive to termites and other insects.
Thanks for these informative videos. It would be interesting to compare these to natural insulators such as cork. I realise that there is not enough cork grown for industrial construction worldwide, but would still be of interest on specialised builds and reworking old buildings that only contain natural materials.
Very concise presentation. I really got a lot of useful information. Thank you.
I didn't know about the issue with the use of polyisocyanurate insulation below 50 degrees. Thanks for the information.
I love the information, and the way it's presented. That South Park clip just helped me choose to subscribe. We're buying our first house, and just trying to get hip to the lingo and way things are made. Thank you!
I bought a 4x8 foot wooden shed that gets hot in the summer, and I’m thinking of using polyisocyanurate to insulate the shed. Haven’t really decided yet , I can very well put the shed in my patio and the sun never hits it. This would severely reduce how hot it gets in there.
Finally someone who speaks my language!!!
Thanks!
You are quite correct when you say that poli ico is water resistant "when properly installed". When it is exposed to water, disaster ensuse.
I would disagree that XPS "does not deteriorate in sunlight". I have noticed that it most certainly does. Wherever sunlight is on it for a few months it seems to develop a powder on the part exposed that you can brush off. This has to be reducing the mass and would be significant if it were left exposed, say at the top of an exterior basement wall along grade. A recent building package that I ordered required me to store the panels until they were used on the exterior so they were stacked in a dry area with a roof over them but the sun could reach their stacked edges from the side. You could see the above change after six months stored like that. I also seem to notice that the cheap EPS coolers tend to fall apart after a season or so use in the sun. Don't know what is going on there but it is definitely noticeable. As you say PolyIso really degrades in sunlight turning a darker brownish color and powdering up. Even used stuff that has been in the building envelope and protected from U\V when taken down has changed in the same way over a greater period of time. The corners so much that they are 'rounded' off from their original ninety degrees. What I have seen is not damage but just deterioration on these recycled panels.
Excellent presentation of information, straight to the point... Thankyou
Very interesting. You are a good presenter. Thank you.
From a fellow Texan , thanks for all these great educational videos. I have learned so much and I’m gonna be utilizing some soon. Thanks again
Belinda, just came across your videos. I would say they are informative in depth and the very best I've viewed on TH-cam . You've got me, subscribed. VERY WELL DONE.
Thanks Belinda! I’m going to build an outbuilding and had considered different insulation options, but your thorough examination of a variety of insulation products has really helped me. Thank you!!!
That was most comprehensive, thank you. I have need to know these things. I intend building my own Tiny House. (2 x 2.5 x 6 metres) I did start with the shipping container idea and realised it was impractical as it cost so much to be delivered and it's life expectancy was lower than mine. I have heard the other down sides from your videos and others.
I thought caravan, but they have little insulation in winter, get damp and are not too stable on their own, plus well - I've tried living in a caravan, okay for the summer months, but you lose money on heating them during winter when the temperature drops and where I live in North West England it drops a lot. So I came up with a modular system based on a caravan base that is expanded on location ( so it complies with Mobile home restrictions). I'm still trying to configure the insulation and work out the heating costs for 5 months of the year which will be cold, 3 bitterly so. Roofing tiles that retain heat, solar panels that aren't an eyesore and land ownership for a small plot, say half an acre - (2023.43 metres). This area allows for the home and room to grow my own food, plus build a shed for working in - (building cycle trailers and campers).
Just some thoughts: Roofing tiles won't help because they are outside of your insulation. Thermal mass is not really something you can achieve, sans something like thick Soviet concrete construction, and that's a problem for THOWs due to trailer capacity.
Belinda, thank you for your explanation of the three foam products that are being used in so many different applications. I got my start in molding EPS foam blocks 59 years ago in Grand Rapids, MI. I recall the block molding machine (Kurtz) that Steve Buchanan commented on that represented old technology compared to today. It was one of the best available in the '70s and was so far advanced from our home-built block molds. By the way, in the 25 years that I was in this business, all our EPS was impregnated with n-pentane as the blowing agent. Wish you well. Mike Allen
As a chemical engineer this video was very satisfying
l am a Swiss Mastercraftsman in Spengler/ Master Roofer.🇨🇭⚒
l enjoy your videos, very nicely explained and very correct information.
I absolutely LOVE your no BS explanation of the different technologies. But you had me at NERRD! lol
Really great information! Thanks!
Owen Corning's pink XPS has greatly reduced HFC's (hydrofluorocarbons) in manufacturing with the new foam being labeled as "NGX" but it is still an XPS, just with a different mix of blowing agents. The cost went up with the reduction in HFC's. Probably other XPS manufacturers are doing the same, since this change is in response to new regulations.