Thank you so much John...I really appreciate your comments! I love your videosooos! I would have liked to have the VS12 Black Shadow also in the battle arena, but the deal I was relying on fell through.. and I decided to do the capsule anyway.. I'll throw the ball at you then to make the same capsule, but via a 4x12 ClosedBack haha :)!!!!! We have to share the tasks! and I love your scientific contributions to the various tests you carry out :P! Rock On / Gear On John Browne! See you soon!
Great demo. I thought the Black Label was far too dark and muddy. That particular Eminence wasn't much better. The Black Shadow and 12L sounded best to my ears.
I must admit that I never really liked the Mark IV via the 1x12 for heavy tones. However, for clean, and more bluesy stuff, it ends up going well. I agree though that it often ends up sounding boxy... Thanks for listening and Rock On / Gear On!
Very interesting demo. It’s nice to have most often used speakers Mesa Boogie amps and cabs in one video. Plus MKIV is a cult amplifier and it has earned its reputation. Just to clarify I am Celestion biased but I have soft spot for the EV 12L especially in the TL806. Also, already for a long time, I am not into high gain anymore. In 90’s it was a bit different story though. To be honest I couldn’t recognize Eminence version when the video started. At this high gain it loses so much top end. Only at clean section I could be sure it was working properly. Now EV12L learned me that what you hear out of it is true sound of the amplifier you are playing. Sort of studio monitors type of speaker. If you know about all types of speakers and cabinets you know it’s PA approached speaker. The same is true as well for it’s TL806 cabinet I like. Normally it has no cone breakup and no compression. Also there is no place to hide. With some amplifiers it’s simply to harsh. Still with some other amplifiers it is sounding magnificent. Though from 5 different versions they can sound from to sterile to great and interesting. Now I own like at least 17 Celestion speakers that I can think off. Few Jensen and odd Eminence and other brands. But my bias is obvious. V30 though fell out of my favor long ago. I have few just for testing. I build point to point amplifiers and you can’t make amplifiers that will sound bad with V30. Despite me demoing other better drivers and explaining the importance of good cabinet and speaker people get amplifier and use what they have until they get better cabinet. What they have is often V30 loaded. Then they hear best sound they have heard in it and save money not getting a better cabinet and never getting full experience. So Celestion 90 Watt Mesa speaker sounds like V30. I know it has vented pole and is not exactly the same speaker but it has that character. For me there is just to much top end. Sure for some types of music that’s epic. But it it just to much for me. Over time it is overbearing and gets irritating. So overall most balanced and best sounding speaker was the Black Label. For me that is. It has some added X factor on the top of that classic EV 12L greatness. It has something more than just what the electric signal contains. It has its own voice. Now only thing I do not like about EV 12L is the weight. But just recently I got that nostalgic need for TL806 and EV 12L. So I got TL 806 clone cabinet and epic Celestion Neo 250 Copperback in 8 Ohm. Many people do not recognize it because of the basket and Neodymium magnet but it is a EV 12L variant. Good one as well. Plus it is only 2.3 kg heavy. That’s more than 3x lighter. Plus it sounds really good. If you know both Celestion guitar speakers and EV 12L you know what happened. 2.5 inch voice coil and not the Celestion typical 1.75”. Cone with no ribs. Surrounding made from impregnated textile. Big solid dust cap. Vented pole peace. 250 Watt rating. Need more proof? 😊 The only things Celestion on it is stamped basket, name and magnet. It looks like Celestion got redone kits and developed chassis to drop it in. I do not understand how is it not more popular. It’s all every EV 12L owner wanted when ever he moved his speaker 😂
I have a Mark III combo with the EVM12L, and I think it's perfect. I also have a Mark IVB widebody combo that came with a C90, and I liked it for clean and crunch and hated it for lead. I swapped it out for a G12K-100 and prefer it. I would have put in an EVM12L, but because it's a widebody, it doesn't fit properly. I also have a Mark V head, and at that time, the only cabinets you could buy were either C90 or V30. I bought two 1x12 with C90, one open back, one closed back, and a 2x12 closed back with V30s. I like it better through the 2x12, but I use that cab for my rectifier, so the Mark V sits on top of the two 1x12 cabs. I also have a JP2C and bought two thiele 1x12 cabs with the EVM12L, and I think they sound great also. I've played the Mark V through them as well, and I think it sounds better through them. To me, there's something slightly shrill and nasally about the C90. I think since Mark amps are quite bright and generally sound better when you can turn the presence up a little bit, they benefit from a speaker that's a little dark sounding. Even the K100 I have in my Mark IV isn't completely satisfying to me, but options are limited due to the cabinet dimensions. I wish I had bought a head instead of the combo, but it was for a great price used, and it's the hardwood/wicker combo in mint condition. I couldn't pass it up.
Great video! I thought I would have preferred the Black Label over others, but to me the original EVM12L had better mids and sounds fuller? And the MC-90 is a close second. The Black Label sounds very soft compared to the others
I think you did an INCREDIBLE job showing the differences between the speakers with a variety of different music. Very similar to my own experiences. What 4x12 would you choose? Being a huge EV fan it's been in the back of my mind to build a TL806Q.
Thank you for this, it's a great video. I was able to track down a Mark IV with the EVM 12L and wanted to know if the Black Label was a good upgrade. To my ears, the Black Label has more 800 hz mids over the original and seems clearer in the low mids when palm muting. I think the EVM12L probably has a bit less character overall, especially when compared to the MC 90. I'm gonna go look for a Black Label now, thanks!
Black label! I’ve used these for a long time in my 112 and 212 and haven’t found anything I like more. I wish they would make a half power version that was lighter so I could do a 412 without making it a boat anchor.
For channel 3, the black label hands down. The MC90 is a close second. Maybe blend the two in a 412? On the second channel, the black label and eminence. On the clean either evm12L or black label. This is a great comparison video. Straight to the point
It was quite a difficult choice. Revising my video yesterday before posting, a little more and I changed the text to put the MC90 and the Black Label equal in my top haha... I would have liked to test the VS12 Black Shadow as well.. I wanted to buy one and the deal fell through. I still decided to make the capsule without this model. Anyway, thanks for listening and Rock On / Gear On!!!
I have a Mesa branded EVM 12 inch speaker. Wondering if I can swap it into my MESA MK IV combo with out any issues. Currently the previous owner had installed a Celestion Century 8 ohm speaker, This Celestion Century is the older one, and he said he did the swap to make the combo lighter . Thanks for the video comparison JL
Celestion's mc90 is the best natural tone of all.I dont like the eminence for this setup sounds very boxy with unpleasant highs Black label is great too
So how about the rear settings? Pentode or Triode? Class A or Simulclass? Harmonics or Mid Gain? Everyone seems to ignore this when sharing their settings on these types of demos. Eminence sounds like pure ass on anything but the cleanest setting. I can see why the EVM was considered the upgrade back in the day.
Harmonic and pentode for sure. And I would guess Class A because its my preferred mode, but Im not 100% sure about it. I will check on my cubase project if I took note on it. Thanks and rock On !
@@bougear Right on, Class A is my preferred too. This was still a very helpful video, I'm really glad I stumbled across it. I'm considering buying a C90 Thiele cab and swapping the speakers (EVM-12L currently in my combo). The C90 seems to add really nice high-mids articulation where the balance of the EVM fills out the sound and makes it sound three dimensional when combined, if I'm hearing things right. Thanks for making this it's great!
Yes, I regret not doing the same capsule in Closed Cab... I sell the 2 of the speaker before I realize that It would have been cool.. maybe one day if someone lend me his speakers. Thanks for watching! Rock On !!!!!
Hey man, would you be interested in NAM captures? I'd love to get a training file of your peavey rockmaster preamp tones. I could provide the neural network training part, of course only if you're interested..
Also, that must have been so much work putting this together. Many thanks for your service to the speaker aficionado community!
I love GEAR!!!!
WE love GEAR!!!
@@bougear YEAH!!!
Best demo of these speakers and amp on TH-cam.
Yes.
Excellent video! As usual it was a treat for the ears and eyes!
I was surprised how different the two EVs sounded to each other
Thank you so much John...I really appreciate your comments! I love your videosooos!
I would have liked to have the VS12 Black Shadow also in the battle arena, but the deal I was relying on fell through.. and I decided to do the capsule anyway..
I'll throw the ball at you then to make the same capsule, but via a 4x12 ClosedBack haha :)!!!!! We have to share the tasks! and I love your scientific contributions to the various tests you carry out :P!
Rock On / Gear On John Browne!
See you soon!
@@bougear Hellyeah, mate! Thank you for your kind words!
Great demo. I thought the Black Label was far too dark and muddy. That particular Eminence wasn't much better. The Black Shadow and 12L sounded best to my ears.
excellent video as always - I've never liked my mark amps through the 112 combo as the tones are always boxy
I must admit that I never really liked the Mark IV via the 1x12 for heavy tones.
However, for clean, and more bluesy stuff, it ends up going well.
I agree though that it often ends up sounding boxy...
Thanks for listening and Rock On / Gear On!
Would be keen to see more such speaker comparos!
Best EV comparison !
Very interesting demo. It’s nice to have most often used speakers Mesa Boogie amps and cabs in one video. Plus MKIV is a cult amplifier and it has earned its reputation.
Just to clarify I am Celestion biased but I have soft spot for the EV 12L especially in the TL806.
Also, already for a long time, I am not into high gain anymore. In 90’s it was a bit different story though.
To be honest I couldn’t recognize Eminence version when the video started. At this high gain it loses so much top end. Only at clean section I could be sure it was working properly.
Now EV12L learned me that what you hear out of it is true sound of the amplifier you are playing. Sort of studio monitors type of speaker. If you know about all types of speakers and cabinets you know it’s PA approached speaker. The same is true as well for it’s TL806 cabinet I like. Normally it has no cone breakup and no compression. Also there is no place to hide. With some amplifiers it’s simply to harsh. Still with some other amplifiers it is sounding magnificent. Though from 5 different versions they can sound from to sterile to great and interesting.
Now I own like at least 17 Celestion speakers that I can think off. Few Jensen and odd Eminence and other brands. But my bias is obvious.
V30 though fell out of my favor long ago. I have few just for testing. I build point to point amplifiers and you can’t make amplifiers that will sound bad with V30. Despite me demoing other better drivers and explaining the importance of good cabinet and speaker people get amplifier and use what they have until they get better cabinet. What they have is often V30 loaded. Then they hear best sound they have heard in it and save money not getting a better cabinet and never getting full experience.
So Celestion 90 Watt Mesa speaker sounds like V30. I know it has vented pole and is not exactly the same speaker but it has that character. For me there is just to much top end. Sure for some types of music that’s epic. But it it just to much for me. Over time it is overbearing and gets irritating.
So overall most balanced and best sounding speaker was the Black Label. For me that is. It has some added X factor on the top of that classic EV 12L greatness. It has something more than just what the electric signal contains. It has its own voice.
Now only thing I do not like about EV 12L is the weight.
But just recently I got that nostalgic need for TL806 and EV 12L.
So I got TL 806 clone cabinet and epic Celestion Neo 250 Copperback in 8 Ohm. Many people do not recognize it because of the basket and Neodymium magnet but it is a EV 12L variant. Good one as well. Plus it is only 2.3 kg heavy. That’s more than 3x lighter. Plus it sounds really good. If you know both Celestion guitar speakers and EV 12L you know what happened. 2.5 inch voice coil and not the Celestion typical 1.75”. Cone with no ribs. Surrounding made from impregnated textile. Big solid dust cap. Vented pole peace.
250 Watt rating. Need more proof? 😊 The only things Celestion on it is stamped basket, name and magnet. It looks like Celestion got redone kits and developed chassis to drop it in. I do not understand how is it not more popular. It’s all every EV 12L owner wanted when ever he moved his speaker 😂
I have a Mark III combo with the EVM12L, and I think it's perfect. I also have a Mark IVB widebody combo that came with a C90, and I liked it for clean and crunch and hated it for lead. I swapped it out for a G12K-100 and prefer it. I would have put in an EVM12L, but because it's a widebody, it doesn't fit properly.
I also have a Mark V head, and at that time, the only cabinets you could buy were either C90 or V30. I bought two 1x12 with C90, one open back, one closed back, and a 2x12 closed back with V30s. I like it better through the 2x12, but I use that cab for my rectifier, so the Mark V sits on top of the two 1x12 cabs.
I also have a JP2C and bought two thiele 1x12 cabs with the EVM12L, and I think they sound great also. I've played the Mark V through them as well, and I think it sounds better through them.
To me, there's something slightly shrill and nasally about the C90. I think since Mark amps are quite bright and generally sound better when you can turn the presence up a little bit, they benefit from a speaker that's a little dark sounding. Even the K100 I have in my Mark IV isn't completely satisfying to me, but options are limited due to the cabinet dimensions. I wish I had bought a head instead of the combo, but it was for a great price used, and it's the hardwood/wicker combo in mint condition. I couldn't pass it up.
Great video! I thought I would have preferred the Black Label over others, but to me the original EVM12L had better mids and sounds fuller? And the MC-90 is a close second. The Black Label sounds very soft compared to the others
I think you did an INCREDIBLE job showing the differences between the speakers with a variety of different music. Very similar to my own experiences. What 4x12 would you choose? Being a huge EV fan it's been in the back of my mind to build a TL806Q.
Thank you for this, it's a great video. I was able to track down a Mark IV with the EVM 12L and wanted to know if the Black Label was a good upgrade.
To my ears, the Black Label has more 800 hz mids over the original and seems clearer in the low mids when palm muting.
I think the EVM12L probably has a bit less character overall, especially when compared to the MC 90.
I'm gonna go look for a Black Label now, thanks!
Black label! I’ve used these for a long time in my 112 and 212 and haven’t found anything I like more. I wish they would make a half power version that was lighter so I could do a 412 without making it a boat anchor.
For channel 3, the black label hands down. The MC90 is a close second. Maybe blend the two in a 412?
On the second channel, the black label and eminence.
On the clean either evm12L or black label.
This is a great comparison video. Straight to the point
Another great video man! I prefer EVM 12L Black Label. Also liked MC-90. I think they will blend nicely
It was quite a difficult choice. Revising my video yesterday before posting, a little more and I changed the text to put the MC90 and the Black Label equal in my top haha...
I would have liked to test the VS12 Black Shadow as well.. I wanted to buy one and the deal fell through. I still decided to make the capsule without this model.
Anyway, thanks for listening and Rock On / Gear On!!!
Would have loved to hear a EV12 Classic as well
@@PK22-b7v I know. Im sorry.. Maybe one day! Never played one.!
@@bougear BTW ... black label sounds the best
I have a Mesa branded EVM 12 inch speaker. Wondering if I can swap it into my MESA MK IV combo with out any issues. Currently the previous owner had installed a Celestion Century 8 ohm speaker, This Celestion Century is the older one, and he said he did the swap to make the combo lighter . Thanks for the video comparison JL
Celestion's mc90 is the best natural tone of all.I dont like the eminence for this setup sounds very boxy with unpleasant highs
Black label is great too
So how about the rear settings? Pentode or Triode? Class A or Simulclass? Harmonics or Mid Gain? Everyone seems to ignore this when sharing their settings on these types of demos.
Eminence sounds like pure ass on anything but the cleanest setting. I can see why the EVM was considered the upgrade back in the day.
Harmonic and pentode for sure.
And I would guess Class A because its my preferred mode, but Im not 100% sure about it. I will check on my cubase project if I took note on it. Thanks and rock On !
@@bougear Right on, Class A is my preferred too. This was still a very helpful video, I'm really glad I stumbled across it. I'm considering buying a C90 Thiele cab and swapping the speakers (EVM-12L currently in my combo). The C90 seems to add really nice high-mids articulation where the balance of the EVM fills out the sound and makes it sound three dimensional when combined, if I'm hearing things right.
Thanks for making this it's great!
Bro, I’d love to hear a demo in a closed back cab. I have 3 of those ms-12 speakers, looking for a 4th if you know of one….let me know.
Yes, I regret not doing the same capsule in Closed Cab... I sell the 2 of the speaker before I realize that It would have been cool.. maybe one day if someone lend me his speakers.
Thanks for watching!
Rock On !!!!!
Hey man, would you be interested in NAM captures? I'd love to get a training file of your peavey rockmaster preamp tones. I could provide the neural network training part, of course only if you're interested..
Contact me via Facebook. We could maybe manage something.
Mathieu Plem
I like mc90
@@rubenalonsoviguerassalazar1539 me too
the best of them is the MS12 imo but doesnt match that much with mark 4 but play a recto an engl or a mark III with it ...
@@YsAbTones I just bought one. I will give it another chance under my Mark III. Rock On !!
which do you prefer ?
@@PK22-b7v I hesitate between mc90 and black label evm.
need to play something.....musical, they all sound thin with no bottom at all.