I just bought an 18tb exos😂I don't care it was $240 I actually have a 4tb barracuda already and have only used 1.5tb, absolutely overkill but hey why not🤷♂️ I play a handful of games but can get a ton more without an issue or worry about running out of storage
@@dimagass7801 It's been 3 months. That's 90 days. Or 2160 hours. You could even say it's 7776000 seconds. Yet in all that time, nobody actually asked.
Reminds me of the time the company I worked for had a server with HDD's in raid. What happened was, one of the disks shat itself and - instead of leaving the array, instead somehow managed to mirror the corruption to the rest of the array. Including the year's accounts. That business died. In another business, the server Raid controller died. Not a problem, since the drives were supposed to be in Raid 1. Turns out, the IT shop that supplied the server had set them in Raid 0. Hours of furious googling and a remote desktop session from my holiday home - because of course it happened while I was away - got the whole 4 terabytes imaged and backed up to a NAS. Earned a bottle of fancy wine from the owner for doing that. Nowadays, everything is in the cloud. I'm more worried about the cloud bursting than the drives shitting themselves. Drives can be recovered.
I don't like this guy, he receive free service from fans in some of his events and he prefers profit than free speech at least you can imply that from Blizzard videos, when the fiasco happened...
I download stuff since I was a kid. Now, 30s, I just can handle it with 15pcs of 1 to 2tb drives. So I decided to buy a 20tb IronWolf pro to just store movies and shows etc.
20TB is perfect for a steam library or video archive. 20TB would be excelent to have in a raid 1 enclosure and use it as a giant storage drive for all your ripped dvds and cds and stuff. it’d also be pretty fine for steam games as those never write to the game data at runtime
To be fair, if you limit yourself from storing anything "multimedia" then 5gb is a LOT of information, just to give you an idea of how big it is - i doubt that all the books that I've read in my lifetime in txt format would fill the 5 gb, that's how enormous it is. You could fit like 200 fully functioning full blown linux system images(given you could go bigger than that, but ~32 mg is about the limit on how much you can realistically downsize it without big sacrifices). And then again, even if we allow a bit of multimedia 5gb is enough to store ~3000!!! photos, or like a ~100 hours of mp3 songs! Which is by the standarts of the time was an enormoud collection!
When Linus said that you can store your whole life on a 20tb hard drive, I had a flash back that in 1997 that my pc with a 4gig hard drive we were told that it would store everything we would ever need. How times have changed.
@@luqnotperfect In 1969 we could store everything on paper tape punch roles. I used punch cards for programing (cobal, fortran, algol, machine language, assembly language). Showing my age.
No way you can store your entire life on 20 TB. I'm 19 and my NAS is at about 60-70% full of its 50 TB. I do have like 1-2 TB of random stuff my family asks me to store for them. Maybe I'm just weird and store everything for no reason
It takes me about 8 hours to run a badblocks scan on a 4TB drive. Of course, this is done at background I/O priority to minimize system impact. So a 20TB one should take about 40 hours. I could live with that.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 Don't know where are you getting 8 hours for badblocks of 4TB drive. I did it recently on a new powerful Ryzen build for an 8TB WD Red drive and it took about a week just for badblocks, plus about 2-3 days for 2x smart long tests. 20TB would take somewhere between 2 and 3 weeks, not counting SMART long tests prior and after badblocks. HOWEVER, this estimation is for non-SMR drives. Since these are SMRs, we are looking at maybe even MONTHS of test time due to radically extended time of write operations.
It's just because it's SMR, not CMR. The fact that it's a HDD vs SSD really isn't the problem. A NAS should never have a SMR HDD. The more you write, the exponentially (literally) slower it gets.
@@deth3021 I'm glad I shelled out the extra money and got the Red Pro that's unaffected (for now?!). If they start touching that line, I might have to start a petition lmao
I really like them talking about tech stuff. It is so refreshing to have a person asking questions like she does, to make you think again about stuff you probably took for a given and ask yourself "actually, is it really the best way to do it that way?" I would love a format which follows this kind of idea. Even though getting them both on a stream talking about topics might not be easy for them, being parents and stuff.
I remember going into 6th grade in 2006-07 and having to get a flash drive. I got it from office max and it cost probably $20 for a 1gb model. I remember seeing an 8 GB flash drive the size of a portable HD for over $100 behind the counter. You can now get 64GB mini flash drives for less than $20... Technology has advanced exponentially.
Yea and it still blows my mind that the first iphone was only 14 years ago and look at how advanced phones are today compared to then it's advancing so fast :D
Thb alot of these flashdrives are super overpriced in the first place. They cost way more than they're worth. So now people have phones that can store 128gb minimum plus nobody uses flashdrives anymore apparently. Everybody uses cloud and messenger to keep and send files. So it only makes sense for flashdrives to get cheaper not only because of technology but because low demand for flashdrives. People rarely use flashdrives anymore so you recall the last time you actually used one?
@@lost4468yt If it goes into a NAS, you want as many of the largest as possible. I have a NAS with 8 10 TB WD Red drives. When I build another in a few years, it would be whatever the largest is at the time.
I'm old school here. I remember 5.25" really floppy floppy discs. Those 3.5" things were durable as hell compared to the 5.25". And when I was at university, my Amiga 500 was hooked up to a SCSI hard drive that was a whopping 500 megabytes. Nope. Not gigabytes. Megabytes. I was quite happy with my 'one half gigabyte' drive (which you could hear clear across the house).
Oh woah, what were you storing on that hardrive?! :o I couldn't imagine having enough files to store 500mb on an amiga unless you were using whdload for everything.
@@bronwaith It was an SCSI drive. And I had a RAM expansion card with a passthrough slot on it that allowed you to add an additional device of that same slotted format. And that 2nd device for me was a SCSI drive controller. At the time I had a BBS running C-Net BBS software as I recall. This was in the early 90s as well. Everything was dialup. But I had multiple 9600+ baud US Robotics modems connected to it as well via separate phone numbers. I recall just recently thinking how amazing it is that I would be able to transfer the entire contents of that external 500 MB hard drive in just a short amount of time across my LAN today. Hell, I remember 300 and 1200 baud modems as well. Though I believe my first modem for myself was actually a 2400 baud. Those were surely the days... And I am not sure how much of that 500 MB SCSI drive I ever was able to fill. I vaguely remember backing it up to a ton of 3.5" disks. And I think I only did that once because it was so damn tedious. I also bought some kind of SCSI device that stored data on cartridges that had magnetic platters in them, as I recall. Pretty sure it was called SyQuest or something like that. They were also noisy as hell. But they made backing up that 500 MB drive significantly easier. Thinking back on it, it looked hilarious. The stuff sticking out of the left side of the Amiga 500 (RAM & SCSI card) was nearly as long as half of the Amiga 500. I had 2 SCSI devices -- the HDrive in an external powered housing that I bought and mounted the drive into, and the SyQuest for backup. I remember the SCSI cable being thick and unwieldy. I could have daisy-chained 6 more SCSI drives if I had wanted to get the full-on Frankenstein effect. I was a huge believer in Commodore vs. Apple or PC. Was quite upset to learn they went kaput. They went bankrupt like the week I upgraded the CPU to a 68010. =[ Still wasn't as bad as my experience buying the Apple ][gs. They discontinued them the same month I bought it new. Considering I bought the thing with money I made delivering newspapers, I considered it an expensive lesson taught early. And I haven't bought anything again from Apple since... My path was from Apple ][e => Apple ][gs => Amiga 500 => PC. I avoided the PC mostly over what I believed at the time to be lack of ingenuity. And I ditched Apple because I saw early that they were not very nice to their customers.
Technically there's lots of other ways to improve storage, they're just more risky and maybe out of reach. For example you could use the intensity of the magnetic field to encode several bits. You could use the direction of the magnetic field.
I've got my entire life on a 4TB drive at 65% full, with an internal mirror drive (non-RAID), an external mirror drive, and cloud mirror of the important stuff. If I lost all of those at once I would cry. But I'm hoping redundancy wins out. Fingers crossed, I haven't lost a drive in about twenty years, but I do move the data to newer larger drives every five years or so as the data grows.
Your fine. Just make sure you have copies on separate media devices. One will eventually fail, and you simply have to replace the drive and copy the data over. For more sensitive data have 3 copies. The point is to expect the drive to eventually fail and have a recovery plan to get your data backed up again.
I used to do mainframe work. We had a storage allocation concepts called a cylinder. It was the same track on every platter so it could all be read at once. Adjusting the layout of the file system can be helpful.
"You could have your entire life on a 20T" My life could probably fit on an 8gb usb stick and that is the perfect media size to throw in the garbage, befitting it's content...
Yeah.. If I deleted all the content from my 24tb array that I couldn't find and re-download online, my entire collection of files dating back to '85 would probably also fit on a thumbdrive.. :-) I just like to store stuff once I go to the trouble of finding it!
Wife: Do you know what day it is!? Me: Ah yes! It's the day I got my first USB. Great memories. Wife: *Hands over pillow and a blanket* Happy Anniversary!
I remember back in like 1984 or so we got a 10MB (yes, megabyte) hard drive to connect to our Apple ][+ (which at the time had a whopping 48K of RAM). It was not only physically enormous, I was wondering how we would ever fill it.
@@MrAugisLTU You'd have to find 20GB of data, first. That would take a lot of work in the 90s, when people measured hard drive storage in MBs and disks in KBs.
I love the explanation you went through on this. When I was a mainframe operator, as part of the batch process is backup the files that the program was going to change, apply the transactions, the backup the data again. Our drive were DASD (Direct Access Storage Device - IBM's weird lingo) with a a capaciry of maybe 20 - 40 MB of data per string. We might go through 5 or more tapes to complete one backup and take over an hour to do it. With a 20TB drive, even eith the faster bus speeds, and limit of the seek speeds, it just blows my mind what it takes to move a blick of data. Imaginge running a chkdsk/r or fsck on that drive, only to have NTFS get stuck trying recover a bad sector or ext4 complain about missing superblocks. I don't think partioning schemes would help much, because you are still chocked by the how fast can you pull the data off. If the next byye is 180 desgrees from the previous byte, on another platter (or the same one - just the heads are busy with that one operation) you may have to wait for the platter to spin 1.5 times to give time for the head to get into position. I think the 1 - 4 TB drives are still the way to gk with spinning drives.
Closer bits and faster platters aren't the only way to increase the speeds of HDD. Like you said, those independent readers, or even block reading algorithms can be further optimised. There are quite a few good block reading algorithms that optimise for the order in which blocks are read so as to read all the requested data in one rotation, but only available in high-end disks.
I store my Steam library, videos and music on a 10TB drive with a 512GB NVMe SSD acting as cache. It's a pretty good arrangement and I don't have to worry about moving data around or uninstalling anything.
This has been on my mind a lot lately. A good analogy would be if an entire town's water supply were in a water tower with only a garden hose to get it out.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 At that point, why not use data tape reels, per en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-tape_data_storage they provide potentially HUNDREDS of TBs at higher speeds than the HDD example of 200MB/s in the video above which should be perfectly fine for long-term archival or "data cold storage". At a company I once interned at, they wrote backups and the like to tape and that was a perfectly valid solution just 3-4 years ago (don't know about nowadays).
@@iReturnV1deotapes It's the exact same issue. They're saying the amount of data you can store is SO BIG compared to how fast you can store it, that it takes forever to fill it up. But I don't think that's a bad thing because you DON'T NEED to fill it up all at once. Just don't use RAID 5 because if you ever lose a drive it'll take forever to restore... and if you lose another drive while it's restoring then it's game over - use RAID 6 at minimum
I like large hard drives as a secondary or tertiary backup to smaller drives. I have around six 4TB hard drives, I like keeping stuff on them separately as they're more portable and if one fails I don't lose ALL my data. But I like having a central backup of each of those juuuust in case one of the individual drives gets broken, stolen, or whatever.
For you who came from Linus recent Petabytes project, here the reason he said so in here. 1. SMR is slow, because they shingled so to moving data from one point to another it takes like hour even forever. nobody in any right mind want that. 2. 20TB HDD not for fast data moving, this never big companies such Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. first choice of tools. They would go to SSD for such data. 3. Nobody would go nuts bought 20TB for home NAS except archival for business such Animation, VFX, Photo Agencies, Audio Artist, Video Editor, Movies studio, etc.
Flash memory write caches are actually essential for SMR drives, at least the ones that appear like normal hard drives (DM-SMR). Random writes go into flash memory, and are later flushed to the magnetic storage either when the flash buffer is full or when the drive is otherwise idle.
I'm still blown away by how computers work. All the extremely complicated hardware and 10101001100 is what controls it all. I have a mechanical background and understand how most things work but this stuff is insane to me. Love all your channels Linus! Thanks for the hours of entertainment 👍🏻
Technically there is two numbers controlling it. 0 and 1. But I just started learning about this stuff so someone else probably knows a lot more than I.
Now start imagining how complex human beings are, and ie. when you look at a huge crowd, imagine what it took to get every single one into that position :P Fascinating like crazy
@@HighestRank na, why not simply buy googles 1googol drive :) (yes, googol exists as a number, thou in the visible universe there do not exist that many protons)
@@eamonia well for starters, she directly helps run the company behind the scenes. As in, she was head of Finance and HR for a while (not sure about now). Beyond that, they always try and bring people throughout the company on WAN Show or other LMG segments. Yvonne is no exception.
Helium? “Oh God!” Shingled “OH GOD!” Not for the casual user. This is best for Deep Glacier or cold storage. Very light use. Pure storage density. Minimal performance expectations.
he is saying, for anything other than use cases of storing large ammounts of files, in a practical use for a home owner who doesnt pratice good backup and redundant schemes, you will most likely storage all your data on one drive and if that fails you would of lost it all. Instead for home practical use if one drive fails of lets say 2-4tb you dont lose the rest of your 16-18tb of data
@@klab3929 "for a home owner who doesnt pratice good backup and redundant schemes" Then the advice should be do it! do backups! and not to avoid large capacity drives. I only buy these kind of drives in pairs and set them to be mirrored!!! And it is also not sufficient redundancy for critical data. You have to have a 3rd location (physically, like cloud storage) and you also have to have backups on different type of storage (HDD, SSD, BD, tape, etc... ). It is also not enough for critical data. You have to have a UPS for your NAS and ECC RAM and a modern FS inside of it (etc.: XFS or ZFS).
Well the parity calculations are going to be more of a concern than the write speeds with most array rebuilds, but the point still stands I suppose. But that's exactly why you don't rely on a single array for data redundancy/security. You really need that entire set to be in at least 3 locations if you want to consider it in any way safe.
Not necessarily in many situations because of the growing speed disparity. So imagine you have somewhat frequently data stored on these drives. If you store 20TB over 5 4TB drives, and then suddenly requests come in for a four lots of 100GB data in that 20TB. With the five 4TB drives chances are you will be able to retrieve at least some parts of that in total parallel, and on average will have much faster returns. But now if you store it all on a single 20TB drive? Well you now need to quickly get 5 different sections of 100GB from that drive, and you can't do a single thing in parallel. What's worse is you might actually start causing significant delays with some data. This is likely still not that bad of a situation for most scenarios. But it already is in others. And as the size keeps increasing but the speeds stay the same, this issue is going to get significantly worse.
These drives are not targeted toward consumers or most small businesses. They are designed to be used in large-scale bulk storage operations in enterprise SAN/NAS/Object storage configurations. How long it takes to write the drive does not really matter nor is there any real concern about recovery times at only 1 to 2 days. It's not an issue when you have 30, 300, or 30,000 drives in a cluster. It all comes down to what is the most cost-effective drive to purchase (part of the cost you have to take into account is how many servers/racks/electricity it will take to store your data...and not just the raw purchase cost of the drive. Less drives = less servers = less racks = less electricity = cost savings. Usually I agree with most of what Linus has to say in his videos but I don't think he thought through the 20+ TB HDD usage scenarios. Additionally, who runs RAID 5 anymore as Linus discusses in the video? It is dangerous as he personally experienced a couple of years ago when he almost lost some of his video storage. Even in the most basic of configs you should be running a RAID 6 or RAID 10 parity equivalent.
The problem is the price and speed disparity right now. It has to be more cost effective and often that is not the case with the larger drives. Eventually the 20TB drives will become important and largely used. It just has to get to the right price point. The big thing is if those get to that price point before SSDs reach large size. As SSD sizes get larger and cheaper eventually they will replace hard drives completely, but that is still 5-10 years off I think.
It all depends on the data, and how often it must be accessed. I worked at a company that had to scan a lot of paper documents every year. The electronic form of the data had to b be accessed a lot, and sat in a high speed database system. But the scanned documents, which took up a lot of space, were only accessed a few times an hour, Monday - Friday. Drives like this would be perfect for that environment. The savings in space, and electricity would be significant in the long run. Being offline for a couple days due to a failed RAID drive would be a minor inconvenience.
I recall being given an engineering sample of a 5GB HDD, long before that was on sale. I was ecstatic. That was a milestone. It seemed so frickin' huge.
check their 3rd quarter..it's sth else tos ome extent...I couldn't ever trust it,it's changing so fast..all I could gather to know is HGST 4TB with AE in middle of it's name have lowest failure percentage. that's all matters.I will only get that model,as many as I need and just put it in my 4-tray Dock which each slots supports up to 14gb. that's it.
Big SMR drive could be useful for backups and similar. Though I probably would just use tapes, at least I would expect a tape to survive longer on a shelf than a hard drive. Would probably need an array with triple parity. I would say raidz3, but zfs has problems with SMR drives. Still, at some point the speed requirements taper off, if the file or backup server is connected using 1G and the drives are in an array, the performance will not be limited by the drives and very big drives would allow one to keep daily backups for a year. I guess VoD would also be a suitable applicaton - lots of reads, infrequent writes and the writes are pretty much linear.
20 TB might be great for storing raw video files after you're done with a project, if you don't want to build a storage server. Also, might make a pretty great game library, without having to wipe older games to make space for new ones.
@@GeckoClever I already have 4 TB filled. I'm assuming it won't take long to reach 10, given the size of games today. So 20 isn't really an unrealistic number.
@@itshugh6750 Unless it's an older game there is still likely need to download patches after moving it back to SSD and before playing. Granted - nowhere near as much downloading as the initial game itself. I would say big HDD's are great for people with bad internet connections. Better to hoard stuff there instead on redownloading every time you need to watch/play something. Tho linus has a point - if the capacity is constanty increasing, but the speed is not then the capacity increase becomes less useful. Having dual actuators to double the read/write/seek speed is a good start tho. I have a 14TB HDD myself is bought last year. It does 200-250MB/s when doing sequential writes. Doubling that would be great and would fully utilize SATA 6Gbps limit (around 550MB/s).
What an excellent video. Yvonne being here is great as she represents all of us who have a tiny bit of knowledge on this stuff. You were jokey with her, but also kind & patient. Fantastic...!
Actually when I was about 10 was when my older brother got a mail-order Sinclair ZX81 KIT. He did something wrong in the soldering, so we had to wait to mail it back and wait for a fully assembled one to be shipped back. I sure was neat, as you could actually save your [sort-of-BASIC] program by plugging in a regular casset recorder in the mic and ear 1/8" jacks.
@@kavinsp That's partially correct. But for real, I have been using a Toshiba 2TB HDD for over 2 years now and it has not failed me yet. Where as all my previous hard drives (consisting of WD and Seagate) would fail within 2 months or less.
I am genuinely impressed by Linus's wife. She's not only pretty well articulated about such technical stuff... But also actually interested in listening. Wow. Linus is a lucky man.
@@Student____2025__1 isn't miscegenation a good thing tho, it's advantageous both biologically and socially, the less humans are able to categorize themselves the less we'll have conflicts and wars
11:55, OH, I figured it out. It's for cycle-able high density cold storage backups. 92-layer TLC NAND flash (like what's in the Nimbus ExaDrive) develops errors at a rate of 1 a year just due to flash bit rot and NAND just doesn't handle high density writes all that well, but these are estimated to have roughly 1 every 100 years (long after their seals will fail) and HDDs don't mind huge progressive writes. In an appropriately configured and striped RAID array, you could take slow but reliable and dense snapshots of your entire corporate database every month for 25 years to a single 4U unit and never risk loosing a single bit (barring external issues).
I've already used up my 18 TB external drive. Had to buy another set and split the files by A-L and M to Z. Any content creator who's been at this for a few years is gonna have a lot of data to save. I always keep 3 copies, so it's over 100 TB across 6 drives to store everything with 200% redundancy
My external backup drive, with no installed files, has 6 tb used (8tb capacity) My internal storage drive is 5tb... Ive ordered an 18tb drive myself now, hopefully that should last me some time. Games are starting to get big, and that affects things like backup and emulation as well. I think Emulation is one of, if not the biggest space eater on my end.
You make a good couple.. Linus rambling about tech and she is asking logic and relevant questions. Great match, also in a WAN show perspective... and she comes across very sympathetic.. nice catch Linus. More Ms & Mr Linus WAN shows.
my first HDD was 325MB Maxstor. I had a 150MB syquest disk drive. used a single metal plater encased in a plastic enclosure. It was a competitor to iomega zip drive
HDD platters can have a number of materials as there substrate making them a composite if materials. HDD platters usually aluminium. Laptops HDD platters glass. The substrates can also be made from ceramic. I looked into wtf they were made of when I used one to scrape some chewing gum off the floor, it was pretty awesome until I shattered the platter from pressing too hard while scraping. Cut myself pretty good too.
19:11 Linus' defensive reaction here just made me laugh. I've been there before with as well. I think they work well as a couple because they anticipate each others thoughts in constructive ways.
Read speeds are fast enough for 8K video. They can still be used for cheap home media servers. Several smaller drives being less risky than one large drive. I have 1TB drives from 2006 that still perform well.
"20TB? I could store everything on there!" Linus, you should've been around in the 80s when my first HD was a 20MB HD. I managed to jam all my data on there, and I had applications and programming on there.
Most mechanical drives are 2 to 4 disks. They are usually made of ceramic plates now because they are easier to create and cost is much lower than aluminum or magnesium.. had a friend that worked for seagate in the 90’s. Just running the lathes cutting platters. The guys that were hard sectoring the platters had awesome equipment.. they had these magnetic residence equipment that could tell if the process needed to be tweaked because the composition of the platters wasn’t perfect. It was a fun place to have accidents from what i was told.. lol. The tool going the wrong way in the cut would send platters flying across the work area.. get down was yelled a lot lol.. cnc.. good times.
35 years ago, when I started my professional career, back in 1988, when my company was selling PC clones, I suggested to stop using 10Mb full height disk drives and start using 20Mb half height drives, the ST225 that had just come out. The sales manager and some technicians had doubts on the reliability of "cramming twice the data size in half the size of the hard drive platters". They could not fathom that newer models had newer technology and would probably be more reliable than the obsolete ones. The matter was resolved when they realized that the new models were cheaper (per Mb) than the old ones.
Does a larger amount of cache built into the mechanical hard drive also increase performance? And whatever happened to the idea of building optane memory into the mechanical hard drive??
![[RANT] The DUMBEST Thing About USB](/img/n.gif)
"when I met you 500 gigs harddrives were big" does he remember every life event based on storage capacity at the time
I know I do lol
Lmao
"My wedding day was when 1TB were accesible to enterprises only, double the capacity and we had our first born child"
Kavin Jebastin lll
Back in my day!
Heh.
*releases a 20TB hard drive
AAA game devs: ah yes this must mean we can increase the size of the game by another 100GB
Warzone devs: Ah yes 300 GB update for a new weapon now
@@JiffryG more like 500GB for a new attachment
just add some blank 100gb files
you have no idea how big the editing files are...
you could even fir modern warfare on that
This definitely aged like milk here we are in 2022 and linus just bought 60 of these bad boys. Well done.
Lmaoo I came here to say this
I just bought an 18tb exos😂I don't care it was $240 I actually have a 4tb barracuda already and have only used 1.5tb, absolutely overkill but hey why not🤷♂️ I play a handful of games but can get a ton more without an issue or worry about running out of storage
Well he is also using ZFS. His point was that if you only buy one drive, dont buy the 20tb
He uses them in another way than described here... did you even watch the vid lol?
@@dimagass7801 It's been 3 months. That's 90 days. Or 2160 hours. You could even say it's 7776000 seconds.
Yet in all that time, nobody actually asked.
Reminds me of the time the company I worked for had a server with HDD's in raid.
What happened was, one of the disks shat itself and - instead of leaving the array, instead somehow managed to mirror the corruption to the rest of the array. Including the year's accounts.
That business died.
In another business, the server Raid controller died. Not a problem, since the drives were supposed to be in Raid 1. Turns out, the IT shop that supplied the server had set them in Raid 0.
Hours of furious googling and a remote desktop session from my holiday home - because of course it happened while I was away - got the whole 4 terabytes imaged and backed up to a NAS.
Earned a bottle of fancy wine from the owner for doing that.
Nowadays, everything is in the cloud. I'm more worried about the cloud bursting than the drives shitting themselves. Drives can be recovered.
Especially the first one sounds great...
Just goes to reinforce that redundancy is NOT a backup!
@@HarryPhillips1453 yeah
a corrupted file will get mirrored anyways
That's (part of) why RAID should not be considered a backup in and of itself.
lmao wine for working in holidays
this show should be dubbed "tech wife listens to her husband geeky bubbling"
Lol accurate enough
😂then im the wife in this case...
I don’t want to laugh cause I can be that “guy” but that’s funny 😄
@@Clarity520 We are all the wife in this case
I don't like this guy, he receive free service from fans in some of his events and he prefers profit than free speech at least you can imply that from Blizzard videos, when the fiasco happened...
New title: Linus's voice goes up to an effortless C6 when he gets passionate about hard drive sizes
Please tell me you measured this
@@nc7486 person stuck with absolute pitch here, I'll let you know when I watch all the way through
@@JJRicks I'll wait in anticipation.
So size does matter...to a point
Let me just grab my tuning forks.
And now he’s using 20TB drives exclusively in his new build
Is he? so they arent bad?
normal consumers are fine with a 1 or 2 TB SSD... if you're editing tons of 4K video that's a whole different story
I download stuff since I was a kid. Now, 30s, I just can handle it with 15pcs of 1 to 2tb drives. So I decided to buy a 20tb IronWolf pro to just store movies and shows etc.
20TB is perfect for a steam library or video archive. 20TB would be excelent to have in a raid 1 enclosure and use it as a giant storage drive for all your ripped dvds and cds and stuff. it’d also be pretty fine for steam games as those never write to the game data at runtime
I'd use it for all the pirated books and movies XD
@@coffeehousephilosopher7936you could store the books on a 8gb micro sd card. But 20tb will hold **ALL** the movies
To be fair, if you limit yourself from storing anything "multimedia" then 5gb is a LOT of information, just to give you an idea of how big it is - i doubt that all the books that I've read in my lifetime in txt format would fill the 5 gb, that's how enormous it is. You could fit like 200 fully functioning full blown linux system images(given you could go bigger than that, but ~32 mg is about the limit on how much you can realistically downsize it without big sacrifices). And then again, even if we allow a bit of multimedia 5gb is enough to store ~3000!!! photos, or like a ~100 hours of mp3 songs! Which is by the standarts of the time was an enormoud collection!
@@Shonicheck okay... how about 4k Doly Vision/Atmos Rips?
seagate just released 32TB drives
When Linus said that you can store your whole life on a 20tb hard drive, I had a flash back that in 1997 that my pc with a 4gig hard drive we were told that it would store everything we would ever need. How times have changed.
Lol. Yeah now 4 gig is a single short 4k video of one life event of your choice.
my teacher 1993: you could store the whole knowledge of the world in this 5 1/4
@@luqnotperfect In 1969 we could store everything on paper tape punch roles. I used punch cards for programing (cobal, fortran, algol, machine language, assembly language). Showing my age.
@@dennisl3589 Well, I guess if you had a roll long enough...
No way you can store your entire life on 20 TB. I'm 19 and my NAS is at about 60-70% full of its 50 TB. I do have like 1-2 TB of random stuff my family asks me to store for them. Maybe I'm just weird and store everything for no reason
"Check disk for errors" **dies of old age**
It takes me about 8 hours to run a badblocks scan on a 4TB drive. Of course, this is done at background I/O priority to minimize system impact. So a 20TB one should take about 40 hours.
I could live with that.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 What software are you using?
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 Don't know where are you getting 8 hours for badblocks of 4TB drive. I did it recently on a new powerful Ryzen build for an 8TB WD Red drive and it took about a week just for badblocks, plus about 2-3 days for 2x smart long tests. 20TB would take somewhere between 2 and 3 weeks, not counting SMART long tests prior and after badblocks. HOWEVER, this estimation is for non-SMR drives. Since these are SMRs, we are looking at maybe even MONTHS of test time due to radically extended time of write operations.
@@impact0r mine only took 6 hours. Somethings wrong my dude.
@@officialspaceefrain Not sure you are doing the full test. On r/datahoarder this is considered standard.
"Why you don't want 20TB Hard Drives?"
February 2022: "Look at those 20TB Enterprise Drives from Seagate for our new new vault!"
Fun fact: He classed this as a date.
How romantic~$
I mean, I would
He had my heart at shingled
1990: 20 MB seem a lot
2020: 20 TB seem a lot
2050: 20 Ex seem a lot
2120: 20 Yott seem a lot........
As far as storage space goes, there is never a lot, at the werry best there is adequate
1992 Me: A 220MB hard drive? I'll NEVER fill that up!
In your face Bill Gates
Fast than that...
First PC I built myself ... Dual 13.6 in raid with four 6.4s for storage... Thought I was ballin
"Why you DON’T want a 20TB Hard Drive"
Uses 16 TB drives in his NAS.
It's just because it's SMR, not CMR. The fact that it's a HDD vs SSD really isn't the problem. A NAS should never have a SMR HDD. The more you write, the exponentially (literally) slower it gets.
@@SummerSausage1 tell that to wd red.
Yeah don't mess up that Seagate deal.....
@@deth3021 I'm glad I shelled out the extra money and got the Red Pro that's unaffected (for now?!). If they start touching that line, I might have to start a petition lmao
It's not the size, it's the shingles. an extra 4tb of storage is a pretty poor tradeoff for massively increased array rebuild times.
I really like them talking about tech stuff. It is so refreshing to have a person asking questions like she does, to make you think again about stuff you probably took for a given and ask yourself "actually, is it really the best way to do it that way?" I would love a format which follows this kind of idea. Even though getting them both on a stream talking about topics might not be easy for them, being parents and stuff.
I remember going into 6th grade in 2006-07 and having to get a flash drive. I got it from office max and it cost probably $20 for a 1gb model. I remember seeing an 8 GB flash drive the size of a portable HD for over $100 behind the counter.
You can now get 64GB mini flash drives for less than $20... Technology has advanced exponentially.
Yea and it still blows my mind that the first iphone was only 14 years ago and look at how advanced phones are today compared to then it's advancing so fast :D
Thb alot of these flashdrives are super overpriced in the first place. They cost way more than they're worth. So now people have phones that can store 128gb minimum plus nobody uses flashdrives anymore apparently. Everybody uses cloud and messenger to keep and send files. So it only makes sense for flashdrives to get cheaper not only because of technology but because low demand for flashdrives. People rarely use flashdrives anymore so you recall the last time you actually used one?
@@chevvyj9669sd cards are cheap, 128gb for $10
@@chevvyj9669use em every day for my 3D printers and also in a farraday cage to keep my files intact in a case of a SHTF or Carrington event.
My brother purchased a 128MB pendrive from Imation brand for about 15 to 20 USD in todays money :D
Finnaly... I can put my 18.5 tb of HOMEWORK
RIP internet connection
Ah yes lots of HOMEWORK
"Homework"
I'm interested on your homework regardless the genres is.. mind sending me the gdrive link? xDD
I think you mean “research”
@@haziqali4524 SATA compatible?
I am asking for 20TB HDDs. I am a data hoarder.
Yes, I pirate as well.
Same here, we need PB drives NOW
But why not get two e.g. 10TB drives? The power and physical space saving is minimal.
@@rubenvd3913
yarrr
@@lost4468yt If it goes into a NAS, you want as many of the largest as possible. I have a NAS with 8 10 TB WD Red drives. When I build another in a few years, it would be whatever the largest is at the time.
I'm old school here. I remember 5.25" really floppy floppy discs. Those 3.5" things were durable as hell compared to the 5.25". And when I was at university, my Amiga 500 was hooked up to a SCSI hard drive that was a whopping 500 megabytes. Nope. Not gigabytes. Megabytes. I was quite happy with my 'one half gigabyte' drive (which you could hear clear across the house).
Oh woah, what were you storing on that hardrive?! :o I couldn't imagine having enough files to store 500mb on an amiga unless you were using whdload for everything.
@@bronwaith It was an SCSI drive. And I had a RAM expansion card with a passthrough slot on it that allowed you to add an additional device of that same slotted format. And that 2nd device for me was a SCSI drive controller. At the time I had a BBS running C-Net BBS software as I recall. This was in the early 90s as well. Everything was dialup. But I had multiple 9600+ baud US Robotics modems connected to it as well via separate phone numbers. I recall just recently thinking how amazing it is that I would be able to transfer the entire contents of that external 500 MB hard drive in just a short amount of time across my LAN today. Hell, I remember 300 and 1200 baud modems as well. Though I believe my first modem for myself was actually a 2400 baud. Those were surely the days... And I am not sure how much of that 500 MB SCSI drive I ever was able to fill. I vaguely remember backing it up to a ton of 3.5" disks. And I think I only did that once because it was so damn tedious. I also bought some kind of SCSI device that stored data on cartridges that had magnetic platters in them, as I recall. Pretty sure it was called SyQuest or something like that. They were also noisy as hell. But they made backing up that 500 MB drive significantly easier.
Thinking back on it, it looked hilarious. The stuff sticking out of the left side of the Amiga 500 (RAM & SCSI card) was nearly as long as half of the Amiga 500. I had 2 SCSI devices -- the HDrive in an external powered housing that I bought and mounted the drive into, and the SyQuest for backup. I remember the SCSI cable being thick and unwieldy. I could have daisy-chained 6 more SCSI drives if I had wanted to get the full-on Frankenstein effect. I was a huge believer in Commodore vs. Apple or PC. Was quite upset to learn they went kaput. They went bankrupt like the week I upgraded the CPU to a 68010. =[ Still wasn't as bad as my experience buying the Apple ][gs. They discontinued them the same month I bought it new. Considering I bought the thing with money I made delivering newspapers, I considered it an expensive lesson taught early. And I haven't bought anything again from Apple since... My path was from Apple ][e => Apple ][gs => Amiga 500 => PC. I avoided the PC mostly over what I believed at the time to be lack of ingenuity. And I ditched Apple because I saw early that they were not very nice to their customers.
I had a 240Mb drive Quantum or Connor on my 486 dx2 and I thought I was big pimpin... I think that was bloody EDU ram era too...
I mean EDO... wow even forgetting the old terms... Like I totally didn't remember Cytrix Cyrux ? CPUs until I saw a pic of them the other day..
Reverse. 5.25 was much more reliable. 3.5 floppy went corrupt all the time.
Technically there's lots of other ways to improve storage, they're just more risky and maybe out of reach. For example you could use the intensity of the magnetic field to encode several bits. You could use the direction of the magnetic field.
More videos with Linus' wife. She asks good questions for those of us who don't watch everything.
She's more interesting than he is. Even better can be found elsewhere where the tech talk is not important.
Yep, asking all the questions we didn't need asking. 🤣
she's great at making him seem knowledgeable about computers by comparison.
20TB drive is going to last a long time
COD: hold my update
Still true to this day sucks man feelsbadman
4K editor: “ah, another fine addition to my collection”
I mean you can fit 100 installtions of warzone on it. If that's not enough for you, you've got a data hoarding problem.
HA!
@@edge21str r/woosh
I've got my entire life on a 4TB drive at 65% full, with an internal mirror drive (non-RAID), an external mirror drive, and cloud mirror of the important stuff. If I lost all of those at once I would cry. But I'm hoping redundancy wins out. Fingers crossed, I haven't lost a drive in about twenty years, but I do move the data to newer larger drives every five years or so as the data grows.
back up on cloud and other stuff,
What drives are they, ssds or hard drives, and what interface of ssd(assuming it's an ssd)
Impressive. I filled up my own 4tb and fairly satisfied... BUT I will def try to get more space by re-encding to AV1
Your fine. Just make sure you have copies on separate media devices. One will eventually fail, and you simply have to replace the drive and copy the data over. For more sensitive data have 3 copies. The point is to expect the drive to eventually fail and have a recovery plan to get your data backed up again.
if you would lose that, you would be happy. you got a chance to learn it all means SHIT.
I used to do mainframe work. We had a storage allocation concepts called a cylinder. It was the same track on every platter so it could all be read at once. Adjusting the layout of the file system can be helpful.
"You could have your entire life on a 20T"
My life could probably fit on an 8gb usb stick and that is the perfect media size to throw in the garbage, befitting it's content...
Wait a minute! Your life can't be all that bad. Surely, there are many diamond chips and pearls in all that gravel...
You ok buddy?
given Star Citizen's universe is going to be ever expanding... lol good luck. its already 70 gigs and it hasent even really started...
I feel like this thread is super deep lol 😂 u do know we are talking about hard drives 😂😂
Yeah.. If I deleted all the content from my 24tb array that I couldn't find and re-download online, my entire collection of files dating back to '85 would probably also fit on a thumbdrive.. :-) I just like to store stuff once I go to the trouble of finding it!
Wife: Do you know what day it is!?
Me: Ah yes! It's the day I got my first USB. Great memories.
Wife: *Hands over pillow and a blanket* Happy Anniversary!
Does this story end in a tragedy? I'm really concerned for the USB.
Guys, guys... the USB died in the Format Wars. It got replaced by its tankier brother, 2SB
🤭
Wait I just watched the newest petabyte project where they implement 64 20tb hard drives...
Ikr
I remember back in like 1984 or so we got a 10MB (yes, megabyte) hard drive to connect to our Apple ][+ (which at the time had a whopping 48K of RAM). It was not only physically enormous, I was wondering how we would ever fill it.
Now take this times one or two Million and you're in 2021 😂
Linus 25 years ago: "Is anybody asking for a 20GB hard drive???"
You maybe missed the point. It doesn't take 2 DAYS to fully write to a 20GB hard drive.
@@SiisKolkytEuroo With 90s data writing speeds it would probably take that long
@@MrAugisLTU nope
@@SiisKolkytEuroo worse
@@MrAugisLTU You'd have to find 20GB of data, first. That would take a lot of work in the 90s, when people measured hard drive storage in MBs and disks in KBs.
"I remember your birthday, now"
Anyone else hear that pause in there???
I love the explanation you went through on this. When I was a mainframe operator, as part of the batch process is backup the files that the program was going to change, apply the transactions, the backup the data again. Our drive were DASD (Direct Access Storage Device - IBM's weird lingo) with a a capaciry of maybe 20 - 40 MB of data per string. We might go through 5 or more tapes to complete one backup and take over an hour to do it.
With a 20TB drive, even eith the faster bus speeds, and limit of the seek speeds, it just blows my mind what it takes to move a blick of data.
Imaginge running a chkdsk/r or fsck on that drive, only to have NTFS get stuck trying recover a bad sector or ext4 complain about missing superblocks.
I don't think partioning schemes would help much, because you are still chocked by the how fast can you pull the data off. If the next byye is 180 desgrees from the previous byte, on another platter (or the same one - just the heads are busy with that one operation) you may have to wait for the platter to spin 1.5 times to give time for the head to get into position.
I think the 1 - 4 TB drives are still the way to gk with spinning drives.
This position has not aged well.
ME: OK wife that obscure tech conversation we had 18 years ago
Also me: Wife, when is your birthday?
first reply
Second reply
Third reply
Fourth reply
Fifth reply
honestly people dont give linus's wife enough credit when it comes to some technical stuff
And that includes Linus.
Why should they? Shes the accountant
Hear hear!
@@undeadwilldestroyall I think you mean “Hear, hear!”
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 yes I do hahaha, fixed
Closer bits and faster platters aren't the only way to increase the speeds of HDD. Like you said, those independent readers, or even block reading algorithms can be further optimised. There are quite a few good block reading algorithms that optimise for the order in which blocks are read so as to read all the requested data in one rotation, but only available in high-end disks.
Ya the main use for this would be surveillance camera system
Linus and I know one trick to never forgetting your girlfriend's birthday: Forget it. Once.
20TB! I'll finally be able to fit half of my porn collection on a single drive!
Linus just bought $35k worth of 20tb drives...
I store my Steam library, videos and music on a 10TB drive with a 512GB NVMe SSD acting as cache. It's a pretty good arrangement and I don't have to worry about moving data around or uninstalling anything.
I love how his stream lags when he opens powershell
I thought my internet was crapping out.
This has been on my mind a lot lately. A good analogy would be if an entire town's water supply were in a water tower with only a garden hose to get it out.
this is an EXCELLENT comparison
2 days to fill a drive isn't that terrible if you think about it. That's a lot of archive space for raw 8k videos.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 At that point, why not use data tape reels, per en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-tape_data_storage they provide potentially HUNDREDS of TBs at higher speeds than the HDD example of 200MB/s in the video above which should be perfectly fine for long-term archival or "data cold storage". At a company I once interned at, they wrote backups and the like to tape and that was a perfectly valid solution just 3-4 years ago (don't know about nowadays).
Is this only a 20tb thing? Or would i also be shooting myself in the foot if I built a nas setup using a fleet of 18tb drives?
@@iReturnV1deotapes It's the exact same issue. They're saying the amount of data you can store is SO BIG compared to how fast you can store it, that it takes forever to fill it up. But I don't think that's a bad thing because you DON'T NEED to fill it up all at once.
Just don't use RAID 5 because if you ever lose a drive it'll take forever to restore... and if you lose another drive while it's restoring then it's game over - use RAID 6 at minimum
Yet here he is years later building a petabyte server with 20TB drives
Proud of Yvonne! She knows a good bit and asks good questions! You should have her in more videos
Finally a place to store my homework folder
Lmao. That’s a lot of homework. What “subjects” are we talking?
@@knicks5426 Biology
@ClumsyHumane I didn't consider anything else. :}
You can stream porn nowadays.
@@JohnJTraston and _archive it_
It's interesting how Linus "considered" taking a server home, and later brought it back.
A server that cost more than most brand new cars mind you just so his wife can back up files quicker what a lucky lady.
@@austinblackburn8095 I bet it costs as much as most of his viewers houses, if they are lucky enaugh to own one
I like large hard drives as a secondary or tertiary backup to smaller drives. I have around six 4TB hard drives, I like keeping stuff on them separately as they're more portable and if one fails I don't lose ALL my data. But I like having a central backup of each of those juuuust in case one of the individual drives gets broken, stolen, or whatever.
Adding platters speeds it up too. You can have the equivalent of raid implementation across the different platters.
Linus is telling us that the size of it isn't everything.
And his girlfriend seems unconvinced.
@@Splattedable HIS WIFE!
@@therealb888 *shrugs* why does that matter?
As she looks at him like " yeh...ok".
Does it really matter when he has a vasectomy? Probably not getting much action anymore.
Couple goals when you're having a discussion about backup performance.
@Defender ofOasis Can you play all games on steam etc on linux?
@@Lynk713 no he can't
@@HeadShoht Rip
For you who came from Linus recent Petabytes project, here the reason he said so in here.
1. SMR is slow, because they shingled so to moving data from one point to another it takes like hour even forever. nobody in any right mind want that.
2. 20TB HDD not for fast data moving, this never big companies such Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. first choice of tools. They would go to SSD for such data.
3. Nobody would go nuts bought 20TB for home NAS except archival for business such Animation, VFX, Photo Agencies, Audio Artist, Video Editor, Movies studio, etc.
Flash memory write caches are actually essential for SMR drives, at least the ones that appear like normal hard drives (DM-SMR).
Random writes go into flash memory, and are later flushed to the magnetic storage either when the flash buffer is full or when the drive is otherwise idle.
I'm still blown away by how computers work. All the extremely complicated hardware and 10101001100 is what controls it all. I have a mechanical background and understand how most things work but this stuff is insane to me. Love all your channels Linus! Thanks for the hours of entertainment 👍🏻
Cleetus the Dog yes man, even with an engineering degree this still fascinates me
Technically there is two numbers controlling it. 0 and 1. But I just started learning about this stuff so someone else probably knows a lot more than I.
Now start imagining how complex human beings are, and ie. when you look at a huge crowd, imagine what it took to get every single one into that position :P
Fascinating like crazy
BECAUSE ITS WRONG!!!! ITS NOT 1S AND FUCKIN OS !!!
Account0 ok than what is it Mr. All knowing? Is it not bits? Hmmm
He literally explains why I do want a 20 TB drive tho
Who doesn't?
17:53
@@Ometecuhtli I like u
Maybe he needs to change it to “why you MAY not want 2tb hard drive”
Title: "Why you DON’T want a 20TB Hard Drive"
Cause you DO want a 1PB HDD!
PtB* because Lead.
@@HighestRank na, why not simply buy googles 1googol drive :) (yes, googol exists as a number, thou in the visible universe there do not exist that many protons)
@@heron5045 you‘re mistaking a googol with a googolplex ;)
"People don't practice safe backup"
I do now that I lost 4tb of my life.
holy shit.
I stopped worrying about it 3 hard drives ago. Anything that important is physical.
Just gave my laptop water damage, and am searching for someone who can backup my 500 gigs NVMe on my external HDD.
I feel ya pain!
F
well, nice for linus's boss to show up in video 😂😂
You mean the chick sitting next to him?
@Lawen Ha! Just, why?
@@eamonia well for starters, she directly helps run the company behind the scenes. As in, she was head of Finance and HR for a while (not sure about now). Beyond that, they always try and bring people throughout the company on WAN Show or other LMG segments. Yvonne is no exception.
you will never hear the end of forgetting your wife's birthday when you first stared dating. if you forget anything it will be brought up
Something to do with permanent memory.
women: selective memory for action, not what was said
also women: will never forget what you did/didn't do years ago lol
@@pauls5745 you didn't take out the trash on xx/xx/xx
11:17 linus remembering that he has a asian wife
I love how Yvonne knew exactly what he meant when he asked for another shingle. Shows how well they know each other.
I also have an asian wife, if i talk about shingles she will call me crazy
talking about hdd its so romantic. his wife love more him every second.
Helium? “Oh God!”
Shingled “OH GOD!”
Not for the casual user. This is best for Deep Glacier or cold storage. Very light use. Pure storage density. Minimal performance expectations.
Just do not use it in a RAID. Rebuilding takes a very long time.
@@happygimp0 Petabyte project 2: 50 of these bad boys in raid 0. Absolute reliability, complete redundancy
@@GTAmaniac1 you mean zero redundancy lol
@@marcusborderlands6177 that's the joke
@@GTAmaniac1 ahh, didn't seem like much of a joke to me, just thought you replaced a diff raid with 0 by accident
2 years later, buys multiple 20 TB. Gee Linus, i tought 20TB drives weren't your thing.
he is saying, for anything other than use cases of storing large ammounts of files, in a practical use for a home owner who doesnt pratice good backup and redundant schemes, you will most likely storage all your data on one drive and if that fails you would of lost it all. Instead for home practical use if one drive fails of lets say 2-4tb you dont lose the rest of your 16-18tb of data
@@klab3929 "for a home owner who doesnt pratice good backup and redundant schemes" Then the advice should be do it! do backups! and not to avoid large capacity drives.
I only buy these kind of drives in pairs and set them to be mirrored!!! And it is also not sufficient redundancy for critical data. You have to have a 3rd location (physically, like cloud storage) and you also have to have backups on different type of storage (HDD, SSD, BD, tape, etc... ). It is also not enough for critical data. You have to have a UPS for your NAS and ECC RAM and a modern FS inside of it (etc.: XFS or ZFS).
Well the parity calculations are going to be more of a concern than the write speeds with most array rebuilds, but the point still stands I suppose. But that's exactly why you don't rely on a single array for data redundancy/security. You really need that entire set to be in at least 3 locations if you want to consider it in any way safe.
Sounds like 20TB hard drives would be great for data warehouse providers/on-prem datacenters
They are. As Linus said around the first 5 mins, the archive series does have that.
Not necessarily in many situations because of the growing speed disparity. So imagine you have somewhat frequently data stored on these drives. If you store 20TB over 5 4TB drives, and then suddenly requests come in for a four lots of 100GB data in that 20TB. With the five 4TB drives chances are you will be able to retrieve at least some parts of that in total parallel, and on average will have much faster returns. But now if you store it all on a single 20TB drive? Well you now need to quickly get 5 different sections of 100GB from that drive, and you can't do a single thing in parallel. What's worse is you might actually start causing significant delays with some data.
This is likely still not that bad of a situation for most scenarios. But it already is in others. And as the size keeps increasing but the speeds stay the same, this issue is going to get significantly worse.
These drives are not targeted toward consumers or most small businesses. They are designed to be used in large-scale bulk storage operations in enterprise SAN/NAS/Object storage configurations. How long it takes to write the drive does not really matter nor is there any real concern about recovery times at only 1 to 2 days. It's not an issue when you have 30, 300, or 30,000 drives in a cluster. It all comes down to what is the most cost-effective drive to purchase (part of the cost you have to take into account is how many servers/racks/electricity it will take to store your data...and not just the raw purchase cost of the drive. Less drives = less servers = less racks = less electricity = cost savings. Usually I agree with most of what Linus has to say in his videos but I don't think he thought through the 20+ TB HDD usage scenarios. Additionally, who runs RAID 5 anymore as Linus discusses in the video? It is dangerous as he personally experienced a couple of years ago when he almost lost some of his video storage. Even in the most basic of configs you should be running a RAID 6 or RAID 10 parity equivalent.
The problem is the price and speed disparity right now. It has to be more cost effective and often that is not the case with the larger drives. Eventually the 20TB drives will become important and largely used. It just has to get to the right price point. The big thing is if those get to that price point before SSDs reach large size. As SSD sizes get larger and cheaper eventually they will replace hard drives completely, but that is still 5-10 years off I think.
It all depends on the data, and how often it must be accessed.
I worked at a company that had to scan a lot of paper documents every year.
The electronic form of the data had to b be accessed a lot, and sat in a high speed database system.
But the scanned documents, which took up a lot of space, were only accessed a few times an hour, Monday - Friday.
Drives like this would be perfect for that environment.
The savings in space, and electricity would be significant in the long run.
Being offline for a couple days due to a failed RAID drive would be a minor inconvenience.
I recall being given an engineering sample of a 5GB HDD, long before that was on sale. I was ecstatic. That was a milestone. It seemed so frickin' huge.
An older friend of mine when we were kids got a Quantum 6.4 GB HDD...mine was still 20 MB. :P~
Here's one for the way back machine. Remember when ZIP drives came out? That big, fat 100MB on a single floppy.
Can't wait for 2050 when we're complaining about our computers only having half a petabyte of storage.
18:55 The energy felt after you states that was the same as when doctors say that people don't do safe sex. Awkward and overwhelming.
I don't want one.
I want two.
Ah yes, finally a hard drive that can store call of duty modern warfare 2019
Still need 60 of them to store flight simulator
With it without Warzone?
DAmn that list of hard drive failures, Toshiba only had 1 failure altogether out of 120k drives. Pretty Impressive...
And it also says... NEVER TRUST SEAGATE!!!
check their 3rd quarter..it's sth else tos ome extent...I couldn't ever trust it,it's changing so fast..all I could gather to know is HGST 4TB with AE in middle of it's name have lowest failure percentage. that's all matters.I will only get that model,as many as I need and just put it in my 4-tray Dock which each slots supports up to 14gb. that's it.
@@amirbahalegharn365
I only use HGST for more important data storage and RAID environments. Toshiba and WD for backup storage.
I recently acquired an 8TB Seagate on Black Friday for $100.
*Cries in 16 bad sectors*
I got a 8TB Toshiba. The noises it makes make me worried.
Big SMR drive could be useful for backups and similar. Though I probably would just use tapes, at least I would expect a tape to survive longer on a shelf than a hard drive. Would probably need an array with triple parity. I would say raidz3, but zfs has problems with SMR drives.
Still, at some point the speed requirements taper off, if the file or backup server is connected using 1G and the drives are in an array, the performance will not be limited by the drives and very big drives would allow one to keep daily backups for a year.
I guess VoD would also be a suitable applicaton - lots of reads, infrequent writes and the writes are pretty much linear.
Well this aged like milk considered you got Seagate Exos 20TB drives haha!
20 TB might be great for storing raw video files after you're done with a project, if you don't want to build a storage server. Also, might make a pretty great game library, without having to wipe older games to make space for new ones.
20tb worth of games?
@@GeckoClever Did you check out how much space is needed for games? 100 or 150gbs aren't so rare anymore, 30-50g is very common.
@@GeckoClever I already have 4 TB filled. I'm assuming it won't take long to reach 10, given the size of games today. So 20 isn't really an unrealistic number.
Sounds like a plan. Download games, if ur not playing them move to cold storage, playing em again, move to ssd storage. No need to redownload.
@@itshugh6750 Unless it's an older game there is still likely need to download patches after moving it back to SSD and before playing. Granted - nowhere near as much downloading as the initial game itself.
I would say big HDD's are great for people with bad internet connections. Better to hoard stuff there instead on redownloading every time you need to watch/play something. Tho linus has a point - if the capacity is constanty increasing, but the speed is not then the capacity increase becomes less useful.
Having dual actuators to double the read/write/seek speed is a good start tho. I have a 14TB HDD myself is bought last year. It does 200-250MB/s when doing sequential writes. Doubling that would be great and would fully utilize SATA 6Gbps limit (around 550MB/s).
Ohh her innocence... You can tell she's never had to rebuild an array. I totally feel ya Linus.
What an excellent video. Yvonne being here is great as she represents all of us who have a tiny bit of knowledge on this stuff.
You were jokey with her, but also kind & patient. Fantastic...!
Actually when I was about 10 was when my older brother got a mail-order Sinclair ZX81 KIT. He did something wrong in the soldering, so we had to wait to mail it back and wait for a fully assembled one to be shipped back. I sure was neat, as you could actually save your [sort-of-BASIC] program by plugging in a regular casset recorder in the mic and ear 1/8" jacks.
cap
@@brians7604 or backwards chip is common... I'm over 50 now both still working in robotics, so my brother and I have come a long way :)
Most interesting thing in here for me is that apparently Toshiba HDDs have the least % of failure.
It's actually HGST, but they got bought from WD and soon you won't be able to tell which is a true HGST :(
Because nobody buys them?🤔
@@kavinsp That's partially correct. But for real, I have been using a Toshiba 2TB HDD for over 2 years now and it has not failed me yet. Where as all my previous hard drives (consisting of WD and Seagate) would fail within 2 months or less.
@@kavinsp Toshiba drives are very good had a 6tb one from them for 10 years always kept great read write speeds and the reliability is great.
I've been using the 500 gigs for since ......atleast before 2010 and still using it for home purposes
I am genuinely impressed by Linus's wife. She's not only pretty well articulated about such technical stuff... But also actually interested in listening. Wow.
Linus is a lucky man.
University goals.
Really? Where are her joints?
@@Student____2025__1 isn't miscegenation a good thing tho, it's advantageous both biologically and socially, the less humans are able to categorize themselves the less we'll have conflicts and wars
If only we all were lucky enough to have a partner who’s as big of a nerd as we are lol
@@Student____2025__1 Someone had the thought like you and then he shot himself in the head.
11:55, OH, I figured it out. It's for cycle-able high density cold storage backups. 92-layer TLC NAND flash (like what's in the Nimbus ExaDrive) develops errors at a rate of 1 a year just due to flash bit rot and NAND just doesn't handle high density writes all that well, but these are estimated to have roughly 1 every 100 years (long after their seals will fail) and HDDs don't mind huge progressive writes. In an appropriately configured and striped RAID array, you could take slow but reliable and dense snapshots of your entire corporate database every month for 25 years to a single 4U unit and never risk loosing a single bit (barring external issues).
I've already used up my 18 TB external drive. Had to buy another set and split the files by A-L and M to Z. Any content creator who's been at this for a few years is gonna have a lot of data to save. I always keep 3 copies, so it's over 100 TB across 6 drives to store everything with 200% redundancy
My external backup drive, with no installed files, has 6 tb used (8tb capacity)
My internal storage drive is 5tb...
Ive ordered an 18tb drive myself now, hopefully that should last me some time.
Games are starting to get big, and that affects things like backup and emulation as well.
I think Emulation is one of, if not the biggest space eater on my end.
Linus : I would just use it to archive video footage
Wife: *looks at him sharply* You mean Pr0nhub movies
Linus: *sweating intensifies*
OneCalledChuck “which is what I was using them for”
Wife: wait what
You know youtube cant demonitize comments
He said that in the video?
You make a good couple.. Linus rambling about tech and she is asking logic and relevant questions.
Great match, also in a WAN show perspective...
and she comes across very sympathetic.. nice catch Linus.
More Ms & Mr Linus WAN shows.
my first HDD was 325MB Maxstor. I had a 150MB syquest disk drive. used a single metal plater encased in a plastic enclosure. It was a competitor to iomega zip drive
HDD platters can have a number of materials as there substrate making them a composite if materials. HDD platters usually aluminium. Laptops HDD platters glass. The substrates can also be made from ceramic. I looked into wtf they were made of when I used one to scrape some chewing gum off the floor, it was pretty awesome until I shattered the platter from pressing too hard while scraping. Cut myself pretty good too.
19:11 Linus' defensive reaction here just made me laugh. I've been there before with as well. I think they work well as a couple because they anticipate each others thoughts in constructive ways.
The dynamic between these two is so interesting and even cute =)
stiimuli true haha
Well they are husband and wife so there's that.
She keeps us watching while he tries to talk.
Read speeds are fast enough for 8K video. They can still be used for cheap home media servers. Several smaller drives being less risky than one large drive. I have 1TB drives from 2006 that still perform well.
I believe when USB thumb drives first came out, they were available in 8MB and 16MB sizes.
"20TB? I could store everything on there!" Linus, you should've been around in the 80s when my first HD was a 20MB HD. I managed to jam all my data on there, and I had applications and programming on there.
My Amiga 2000 had a 50MB drive, and took years to fill up.
Everything was smaller then...
My first was a 10 MB. And it was a giant 5.25" thing (and over 3" tall). On an IBM PC/AT with an 80286 CPU blazing away at 6 MHz.
Okay, all you guys are making me feel old. ☹️
20MB isn't even big enough to fit one 4k nipple.
For those of us who have an a**load of audio and video that needs to be archived, the big platter drives are still the best bang for the buck.
the SMR lines are less used in DC from my reading, and those started popping up around the 14tb sizes.
Most mechanical drives are 2 to 4 disks. They are usually made of ceramic plates now because they are easier to create and cost is much lower than aluminum or magnesium.. had a friend that worked for seagate in the 90’s. Just running the lathes cutting platters. The guys that were hard sectoring the platters had awesome equipment.. they had these magnetic residence equipment that could tell if the process needed to be tweaked because the composition of the platters wasn’t perfect. It was a fun place to have accidents from what i was told.. lol. The tool going the wrong way in the cut would send platters flying across the work area.. get down was yelled a lot lol.. cnc.. good times.
19:58 I like how Linus "considered" doing it by... well just actually doing it, it seems LOL. can't bring back something you didn't take
To be honest, I wouldn't mind 5 1/4" HDDs that have multiple 2.5" HDD stacks if it means faster HDDs with more storage that are cheaper than SSDs.
35 years ago, when I started my professional career, back in 1988, when my company was selling PC clones, I suggested to stop using 10Mb full height disk drives and start using 20Mb half height drives, the ST225 that had just come out. The sales manager and some technicians had doubts on the reliability of "cramming twice the data size in half the size of the hard drive platters". They could not fathom that newer models had newer technology and would probably be more reliable than the obsolete ones. The matter was resolved when they realized that the new models were cheaper (per Mb) than the old ones.
Just bought 4 20tb drives 😂
*"But Jake got made at me, so I put it back"*
Died.
U w8, m8?
That cracked me up too
you just inspired me to make an unscheduled backup :)
My first USB thumb drive was a Corsair 128mb that I bought in 2005 and I still own it to this day and it still works
Does a larger amount of cache built into the mechanical hard drive also increase performance? And whatever happened to the idea of building optane memory into the mechanical hard drive??