▼EXPAND FOR TOOL LINKS and INFO▼ Watch Next = Hater's Guide to Harbor Freight - th-cam.com/video/_WzDCxfJXAY/w-d-xo.html Festool Dust Extractor - amzn.to/3LapxDd Festool ETS125 Sander - amzn.to/3NeB9Yq Festool Cordless Track Saw - amzn.to/41W9QHb Festool Domino 500 - amzn.to/40P5mAM Festool Rotex Sander - amzn.to/3Ax3n9p Festool Kapex Miter Saw - amzn.to/3LbhRRb Festool Top Rock Radio - amzn.to/3n6qwMT Track Saw Dust Cover - wittworks.shop/products/track-saw-dust-cover-for-festool-ts75 T-Shirt I'm Wearing - bit.ly/3olmkJr Festool Dealers I Recommend: Official Festool Amazon Store - amzn.to/41JHe3C Ohio Power Tool - shrsl.com/41iao Tool Nut - thetoolnut.sjv.io/rQaRRj Check this video's description for more links. If you use one of these Amazon and other affiliate links, I may receive a commission. Some other useful links: Daily Tool Deals on my website: www.731woodworks.com/tool-deals Subscribe to our email Newsletter: mailchi.mp/7e44c16eefdc/731-woodworks-email-newsletter Check out our easy-to-follow woodworking plans: www.731woodworks.com/store Outlaw's Board Butter - So Good it Should be Outlawed: www.731woodworks.com/store/boardbutter
Great review. I am new to woodworking and consider myself a hobbyist. However, I am a hobbyist with aspirations to be a professional. I don’t own any Festool. Products because where I am in my journey. Maybe someday 😀
The reason Festool gets so much hate online is in my opinion because most of us are hobbyist woodworkers, and whether you agree or not, Festool is a high end brand, marketed for serious woodworkers and professionals. Most people are just tired of seeing it presented so often on hobby channels as if it's a normal every day shop tool to have, which it isn't.
Having options is never a bad thing. Dollar for dollar I think the woodpeckers stuff is the biggest ripoff out there. I say that as someone with multiple sustainers of Festool stuff.
Buy the tool you can afford. Accuracy comes from knowing how to dial in the tool. I don't hate on Festool, I simply can't afford them. My Bosch and Bora track guide cut straight, and ya, I need to use my broom after I get done breaking down sheet goods. I've never heard of a customer complaining that the coffee table they purchased wasn't made with only the most expensive tools? Old Matt loved his Delta 725 table saw. Now he owns a Sawstop. Woodworking is a progression. Use the tools you can afford.
I think most of us just don't see the value return on that high price. I own a Sawstop cabinet saw because it was basically the same price as the Delta and the Grizzly(?) that I was looking at 12 years ago. The quality of the cut and fence seemed to be about equal for all of them, but this one won't cut my fingers off? Sign me up. And it get used for the majority of work on everything I build. If I have a choice between a Milwaukee, Dewalt, or Makita tool that's solid construction, does the job well, and has some nice features over entry-level junk.... what's the case for buying one that costs twice as much? As a hobbyist like you and everyone else in here, does a $600 saw make a cut better than a $300 saw? For as many cuts as I will make with it in year? I can afford the tool, if I really wanted it, I just don't think I'd use it enough to pay $5 per cut over the lifetime of the tool. Dominos are the only thing I'm tempted by. If someone make a reasonably priced and SAFE to use domino alternative, I'd probably get one. I build one, maybe two pieces of furniture a year. When I retire, maybe it's worth it. But probably not until then.
I think part of the problem is that DIY guys watch youtube channels for DIY stuff and they often don't realize that the youtuber isn't a DIY'er. The content creators are full time professionals at their job and so investing in higher quality tools typically makes sense for them. The catch is that it sometimes distances them from their viewers to a degree (for right or wrong) and of course you'll never make everyone happy. I'm a mechanic (old car restoration guy) and I see Festool as being the woodworking equivalent of Snap-On (or other high end tools). Sure, a DIY guy can work on a car using harbor freight, craftsman or husky tools, but when you're doing it for a living 50 hours a week you learn that the extra money spent on premium tools isn't always wasted. Some tools are fine to go cheap on and others are well worth the upgrade. It's a good tradesman that can know and understand the difference. Next week I will be sanding down a '55 Chevy and you can bet I'll be using my Hutchins sander and not a harbor freight sander.
I was a bodyman and a frameman for 45 years at 70 I have probably $30K in Snap-On and others. Now I do woodwork as a hobby and wes Festool has my wallet but I do try save a little by buying China on Amazon. Festool is one of the best but I cringe when I order anything. Well when I,m gone hope my son loves these fine tools
Not necessarily "full time professionals", but **full time professional TH-camRS**. And that specific distinction allows them (if they have the audience) to buy tools and equipment that average working pros can't afford or justify. As a pro (plumber) I don't/can't buy the BEST and MOST EXPENSIVE, but I buy a pro grade that fits into my expense margins. TH-cam "pros" rarely, if ever, need to rely on actual real-world trade profits to buy the tools they need to work - they are "paid" by viewers to keep buying newer and better, while the working pros need to make tools last a decade.
There’s a concept in psychology called “ego centric bias.” It basically means seeing the world and everyone else through the lens of how you understand yourself. In other words thinking that everyone else is similar to you and everything else is made to be for you. There are people in a New York apartment that literally do not own a hammer, who consider themselves the definition of a “DIY” target audience. So if you post a video that requires a circular saw they will yell at you for having tools that the average DIYer doesn’t have. These people barely qualify as a crafter since all they own is a pair of scissors but they see the world through their own eyes and want you to make videos specifically for them and their tool less situation. That’s an extreme example to illustrate the point. But it puts content creators in a weird spot. Everyone has to make a choice about how fancy they are going to make projects. It’s possible to go so far that you alienate a bunch of people who can’t replicate what you’re doing. But on the other hand I daresay most videos get watched for entertainment or inspiration or general education and not instruction for a specific build. But it depends on who you’re trying to target and what reason you’re targeting them. Bourbon Moth has said that he realized people were watching for entertainment so he leaned into that. Anyone capable of making his stuff would have the tools and knowledge to figure it out just watching the video anyway. And most people with that level of skill probably want to make changes so it’s a bespoke piece just for them.
Thing is Festool, isn't what Snap-on used to be, their tools are kinda cheaply made, they do seem to hold up al least as long as the narrow product cycle. Look at Ave's reviews, he found places where there could have been bearings, but instead was a pocket in plastic with some grease. If someone took a Chinesium tool apart and found that, we would never have heard the end of it. He also found beef where it had to be, so not bad. But kinda like the work they are supposed to do, cheap solution to houses that will be vacuumed into the dump in a generation. Don't look behind the curtain. The design and innovation is excellent, just not something to worship on quality.
@@robhaydnsei - Fein and Hilti may price the same, but they're not in the same league as Festool and certainly not Mafell. Mirka are specialists (sanding) to me. Priced similalry to Festool and 3M for very similar products but without the same infrastructure.
Festool products, and people's reactions to them, are interesting. For a finish carpenter, Festool -- particularly the entire Festool ecosystem -- cannot be beat. (We can argue about whether Festool is better than some of its top-notch competitors, but that's a different discussion.) Their tools are portable, accurate, and leave little mess. Perfect for doing precise work at the jobsite. But, what about a woodworker -- someone who makes fine furniture or meticulously crafted boxes and such -- as opposed to someone who merely works with wood? For a woodworker, Festool doesn't have nearly as much to offer. I used to manage a cabinet mill. If I were setting up a large cabinet shop today, Festool would make up a very small part of my tool budget. Since I won't be taking the tools from jobsite to jobsite, portability isn't a plus factor. Nor am I going to want all those systainers taking up space. I might use a tracksaw for breaking up sheets of plywood, but I doubt it. Instead, I'd use a cart to move materials to the table saw. And, many of those table saws would be sliders. I might have a domino (or three). And, I might have a Kapex. Other than that, I don't think Festool products would have a role in my newly created cabinet shop. All my sanders would be pneumatic as would my drill drivers. I wouldn't have router table, I'd have shapers. On the other hand, a smaller shop -- even one that does professional work -- might benefit from a whole host of Festool's products. There, Festool's portability pays dividends. Space in such an environment is at a premium, and Festool's ecosystem allows a lot of capability to fit into a relatively small space. If I were building myself such a shop today, it might be exclusively stocked with Festool products.
100% agree, my friend makes bespoke built in furniture and he uses a lot of Festool gear when he is fitting on site but in his shop he mainly has serious machines like a cabinet saw and spindle moulder and radial arm saw, planer and thicknesser etc. Festool really don't make any serious shop machines for making cabinetry other than maybe the domino which is an amazing device.
ANd those pneumatic tools most likely would use festo pneumatic equipment like vavles and so on and so forth, so you would still be using festool or at least stuff from the same parent company.
I'm a retired long haul truck driver. When I retired, I started watching TH-cam Woodworking Channels. April Wilkerson was just getting started. So, like her, I figured I could make things I needed rather than purchasing them. With a limited space two car garage, I asked my friend Jesse (he own Eagle Tools in Los Angeles) my options for this small space. He suggested a Festool ts55 Track Saw Kit. He had a Festool Representative stop by my house to demonstrate the track saw. Under his supervision, I made a few cuts and it was Festool from then on. Expensive? You bet! But for me, the perfect and square cuts it makes, made me look like a professional woodworker. My pieces came together square and fit perfect. I now own the MFT/3, two sanders, CT26 Dust Extractor and both the 500 and 700 dominos. Next month, I'll be investing in the Kapex KS 120. I've made a ton of things for both the inside and outside of my home. My kids come over and we make things for their homes. And, best of all, my grandkids come over and safely make things for themselves that they want and need. How do you put a price on that?
"Limited" 2 car garage workshop? I'm sure I speak for all of Europe when I say I hate you 😜 Just kidding of course. But a dedicated workshop is a dream for many here. I think it's awesome that you're passing this on to your kids and grandkids. My parents didn't have much money when we were born, and my dad made all manner of furniture for us, as well as wooden toys. And he taught us how to make or repair things ourselves as well. That is a gift that keeps on giving :)
I've mentioned this on other similar videos. I think the primary reason for the "hate" is not really a criticism of Festool per se. Yes, the price is a big factor and results in jealousy. That actually translates though into a lot of the online "hate". Why do youtubers receive comments like that? More than likely it's not the production shops that get the hate for it. Look at Dusty Lumber's videos. I don't think I see many Festool hatred comments on his video. Why? Because he's always had high end tools on his videos, he's been a production shop since before he started TH-cam. Where you get the hate are the channels that started out with cheap tools, then after their channel grew they upgraded to expensive equipment. The issue is that the fan base of channels like this one and others like it is primarily hobbyists or those that do woodworking as a side hustle. They likely don't have the money for Festool and probably never will (or even if they do have the money they can't justify the cost over a lower cost tool). They started watching the channel because the creator was "one of us" an everyman buying tools at Harbor Freight and Home Depot. Then, once they start getting all these expensive tools, it feels like they've abandoned who they were. It feels like they are sell out (even if they bought all the new equipment with their own money). It's like a blue collar worker who joins management. Most understand it and are happy for that person (especially if they deserve it), but it's still seen little bit as a betrayal. Look at Steve Ramsey. He absolutely has the money from his channel to buy a Sawstop, a domino, or whatever other top end equipment he wants. I wouldn't be surprised if he had another shop across the street with top end equipment, but every video is him using an old contractor table saw and all the old "cheap" other equipment. His brand was woodworking for mere mortals and he's never betrayed that. And because of that, everyone loves him and there are very few criticisms of him. In my opinion a lot of the hate isn't necessarily jealousy (though that is a factor), but more a feeling of betrayal and "selling out" on the part of the content creator.
@@EngravinDave that's true, and from a business perspective a content creator has to weigh the cost/benefit of making transitions like upgrading to expensive tools. There will always be "haters" and so the question is how do you deal with them? Do you just ignore it? Do you make videos like this and try to convert them or address some of the criticisms? Or do you try to appease them in some way? There are costs and benefits to all those approaches. I think Steve's rut has a lot to do with burn out, but also that he's done pretty much every possible video over the years, so where do you go? Do you start repeating videos? Do you rebrand? Do you quit youtube and do something completely different? Do you go the livestream route and just address things as they come in?
I don't mind those channels a lot, if they do well and can afford nice tools, more power to them. As long as they stay true to what they used to do, things like offering tips and tricks, showing how to do certain things (and not in a way that can only be done with expensive tools), or providing nice ideas (or plans) for new projects. What I hate are the channels who present an "easy to build doohicky", and start the video with "we'll just run this CAD design through our CNC mill, while we start cutting this inch thick steel with our top of the line automatic plasma cutter".
I'll have to respectfully disagree with your sander recommendation. The ETS-125 is a "Finish" sander and has a 2mm stroke with a 250-watt motor. It is a common mistake to think that you're buying an entry level priced Festool sander for $249. The 2mm stroke is fantastic with mid to fine grits and leaves a butter smooth finish. But it isn't aggressive at all and will take a long time if you need to remove any amount of material. The best choice is the ETS EC-125 for $475. I get that it is "WAY" more expensive, but it is a much better all-around sander. It is a 3mm stroke with a 400-watt motor which means it works well with course to fine grits and is more aggressive which equals faster sanding, but it is still capable of leaving a fine finish. The ETS-EC 125 would be your go-to everyday sander and the ETS-125 is a sander to use at the end of a project for the final fine sanding. But you really don't "need" an ETS 125 if you already have an ETS-EC 125, see what I mean? Also, the ergonomics of the ETS-EC -125 are usually preferred by most as well, which makes those long sanding session a bit easier. I own two versions of the ETS-125, the corded as you have in the video and the cordless ETSC-125, so I'm not a hater, I just want people to understand what they are buying before doing so. All the Best, Chuck
Yes the ets125 is comparable to the orbital sanders you get at Home Depot from Dewalt and Makita. Those are all short stroke finish sanders. And those are what the average person thinks of when they think about sanders. The aggressive $500 one are a different breed meant for hogging off material similar to belt sanders but obviously not that wreckless. As long as you know what you’re buying and you want a finish sander then the ets125 is fantastic. Much better than the comparable big box brands because it’s not made of plastic drive parts that will brake after moderate use. I’m f you want something that will flatten your table top that has one board 1/16” proud you should look elsewhere. If you want to take your properly finished piece up through the grits this is what it’s made for.
The major problem I have with these tools is not the tools themselves. Heck I’d love to own a set. My problem is when I started watching you, Wilkerdo’s, Anna White etc, y’all had the same simple set of tools we did. All is a sudden sponsorship is a part of the game. This is great but kinda leaves us little guys wondering if we are still in the same class. Wilkerson got to be where it almost seemed like ever episode was a informercial. Anyways I still love the videos, just kinda wish it was more projects, less tool reviews etc. Keep the faith my brother.
It takes extra tips and tricks to get "regular" tools to give results like high end tools. I learn a lot from watching people use tools with limits like mine and learning about how they get around those limits.
It’s gotta be hard, cuz for them how do you pass up the money? This is their job. I do always enjoy seeing people building things with the tools I have, or even lesser tools than I have!
But Matt is not sponsored by Festool. I don't think that anyone other than Sedge is sponsored that I've seen. What I have seen from Matt and others is as they have become more successful they get to buy nicer gear. Them using better gear is not a problem at all. Everything they all do can be done with any basic gear. Rex the handtool only guy can show you that, granted it makes a weekend project into a month long project.😂 Another example is Guga, a cooking guy. A couple years ago you never saw that guy cooking high end steaks. Now every episode he is cooking Japanese A5 wagyu. I can watch him and pick up tips while cooking my poor mans steaks still. Same way any one of us can pick up tips on the way Matt does stuff here.
Do not like April. Every 20 seconds you get a minute of advertising, both from her and TH-cam. And with that time wasted when should I actually make something miss Sell Out?
I agree with you on some of these channels, but I think many of them really just do bite the bullet and buy once, cry once. To a certain extent it's a matter of priorities. A car channel I've been watching addressed a common misconception people seem to have about "car guys", which is that they must all be filthy rich, but in reality most of them have chosen to wear generic clothes/shoes, they use old phones, etc. and dump the money they save into expensive car parts instead. It's the same for woodworking tools- do you really NEED that flagship phone? Because you COULD get the newest iPhone or biggest Samsung with all the bells and whistles (which will last you about a couple of months before it's obsolete, and a couple of years before it craps out) but for about the same price you could get, for instance, a Festool ETS EC 150 which will last you a lifetime and really bump up your sanding workflow. But yeah, April in particular seems to have tons and tons of sponsors and "friends" who just so happens to be experts on this-and-that to come help her out and her videos have become entirely unrelatable as a result.
For casual people, it’s expensive. If you are a shop and are making money, it’s an investment. The replacement service is crazy good. I don’t own any festool yet, but I’m looking at a boring 5” sander just because after using one for a couple days it was much faster, cleaner, and quieter. I used the 3m 710w sanding discs and worked from 120 up to 240 and it was clean. It’s funny you mention the 125 sander, I have one in my cart lol. And so it starts! Toe dipped.
New subscriber here. I thought I would give it a try, but I unsubscribe if videos become all about the sponsor. You made it very clear that you are not sponsored by Festool, and I'm pretty sure that their sponsorships are few and far between. I work at a local Woodcraft, and own a bunch of Festool myself, and I'm always getting comments such as "must be tough" and "where are you making all this money to afford Festool?" The bottom line is haters be haters. Festool tools take a beating and they will keep coming back for more. I think the only thing I dislike about the Festool way of thinking is they are transitioning to cordless. Our rep himself said they are planning on nearly a full transition in the future. I'm one who still likes cords on some machines, and I think it's fair to say that when a lot of these batteries are dead, in the distant future of course, they will end up in the landfills.
Matt, serious question, why do you have Festool? You mentioned that it’s for makers and it saves them time (hundreds or thousands of times over - which may be a bit of an exaggeration!), but I see your channel as more of tool reviews and not builds. So did you buy them just to review them?
Hey Craig, no I didn’t (don’t) buy them just to review them. I use them regularly. Just because i don’t make a video of a build doesn’t mean I don’t use the tools. The build videos get less views than tool videos so I choose to do more tool videos vs videos of building things.
@@731Woodworks thanks Matt, appreciate the response. I loved your video on haters (made me check my actions and how I phrased my question to you!) and the suggestion from a follower to do both at the same time. I do like your tool review videos but also love your build videos - so it’d be the best of both worlds! Take care Matt and keep crushing it!
Festool is a nice brand, but I’ll argue till the cows come home that you can do the same job, just as accurate with another brands. I’m not sure if people hate the Festool brand rather than the Festool owners. A lot of Festool owners stick their nose in the air as they tell you how your brand of tool is garbage. You’ll never be able to get the accuracy you get with Festool. It’s like they have to always try to sell you in the brand as though their trying to justify it. The skill of the woodworker is what’s most important, not the tool. I’m not suggesting Festool isn’t a great brand, because it is. It’s just not the be all end all you must have if you’re a real woodworker. Although it’s ridiculously expensive, hands down the Domino is the one tool that’s worth buying if you’ve got the budget and do a lot of mortise/tenon stuff. The dust extractor is a great compliment to the Domino, but you can use whatever dust collector you want, you just might have a little more dust in the air, which is a bit of a bummer. People say, if you don’t get a Festool dust extractor you’re going to breathe in harmful dust particles. That’s why most of us wear a good mask! The sanders are really nice, but so is the 3M and it’s much cheaper. If you don’t want to pay $400 for the 3M, buy the $200 Mirka knockoff everyone is talking about, or the $100 dewalt. The Dewalt is a good sander, but for $700 you can get a Festool that vibrates way less. The track saw is awesome, but the Kreg and Makita are great saws. I personally use a $100 WEN as I don’t use a track saw much, and after you tinker with the WEN, it’s not a bad little saw. With the Festool, you have to use their blades or you void the warranty if something happens. Of course, you can always slap on the Festool blade before you get warranty work done. I don’t get understand why people spend the money on the miter saw. In my opinion, that’s a waist of money and just plan stupid. There drill and driver is also a waste of money. You’ll never convince me they do a better job than say a Dewalt. I’ll admit the Festool brand is a great tool company. They make some of the finest tools you can buy. However, for a diy guy working in his garage or small shop as a hoppy or selling stuff on the side, I don’t think they’re worth buying, unless you have an unlimited budget and/or you want everyone to see you own Festool tools to impress people, or so you think. If you buy into the Festool brand and get a lot of their tools, that’s where the brand shines as so many if their tools work together. With just the track saw track and some adapters, you can use several if the tools to produce nice straight lines. Unfortunately, to get into their line if tools, you could outfit your entire shop a few times. Like I said, I love the Festool Domino as it’s a tool you can’t buy anywhere else, and it does what it does perfectly. The extractor would be nice, but the rest of the tools are way overpriced and you can do the same thing with other brands, they might just do it a little better or with less vibration. It really comes down to your budget, but again, it’s the skill of the woodworker, not the tool brand. If you don’t have the skill, Festool isn’t going ti magically make you better. What did high end furniture makers do before Festool? What did all woodworkers do before Festool was really a player?
I run sound professionally in film/television. I own all of my own equipment as many professional sound mixers do. The cost of a single wireless transmitter and lav (small mic that I place on talent) are over three thousand dollars a channel (per person). I’m also an amateur woodworker and anything Festool makes seems like a WAYYYY better deal than what I pay for way less useful pro sound equipment. Especially being that you can use Festool’s equipment for real life applications.
Right? It's kind of amusing coming from that field where hobbiests with $5k mirrorless rigs are hating on professionals with $50k+ cinema rigs to this one where hobbiests with a $500 contractor saw hating on professionals with a $4k cabinet saw. The time and reliability savings from high end equipment will likely never yeild returns for a hobbiest, and that's okay. I am in the hobbiest category when it comes to woodworking. While a shop full of Festool tools may not make sense for me, I'm not going to hate on a professional for buying professional tools. I can afford to take my time to get good results whereas a professional needs the best possible results in the shortest time possible. I do happen to own a Festool sander and dust extractor. It's faster, more comfortable to use, and less messy than my Dewalts. It's just an expensive convenience for me, but that time savings and comfort may offer significant value to a pro. The content is still relevant to me, regardless of how fancy the tools are.
For me the issue with festool isn't the price, it's the poor quality. I've met a lot of guys with festool tracks and makita track saws because the festool burned out. Not to mention all the miter saws of theirs that burned out.. and the customer service is non existent. I know a guy that owns a small lumber mill and cabinet shop. He loved his festool track saw. But when it burned out he sent it back and was told they couldn't fix it.. apparently he got ino it a little with them and when he got his saw back in the mail it was completely taken apart.. they sent him back a box of parts.. this guy is an old timer, and very friendly. I'm sure he didn't say anything nasty and this is how they treated him. I won't buy any festool product.
the architecture school I went has a wood workshop and when they when from French franc to euro, they bought every festool they could 've bought at that time, they made a budget in French franc and didn't realised with the conversion how expensive in would be, so nowadays they continued happily with festool and I must said I enjoyed every single one of those tool man, I always felt the difference when helping a friend or father in law, and I've to use their tools, so because I had years using these tools and pushing then to the limit I naturally bought them after graduation, even tho I'm not a "professional wood worker" per say because I don't sell what I build, but when I do all my design for my house or I've to build something I'm glad, it really feel different, my father in law once visited my workshop and was happy to see all my tools, (even tho he said it is because I 've great tools I can built greatthing -_-)
I don't think there's a lot of hate for Festool, just as there isn't a lot of hate for Ferrari or Rolls Royce. They are high quality, desirable products that have had a lot of money go into R&D, support, etc. so the prices are perfectly justified, I'm sure. I would say the vast majority of your viewers get that. However, instead of hate, there may be frustration on the part of viewers who are hobbyists looking for advice from channels like this. And, perhaps you don't realize, but with expensive tools on display like this, it increases the gap between the newbies like me and what used to be project-oriented TH-camrs. When I see that array of Festool boxes on your bench, I think "well, I guess this channel isn't aimed at me any more". You're not deliberately trying to alienate my demographic (hobbyists), but it may have that effect on me and others when content like this is produced.
At one time, I had a garage full of Ryobi, Skil, Dewalt -- and Chicago Electric (Horror Fright) stuff. When I could, by and by, I got better stuff, and the old cheaper stuff went to deserving relatives as hand-me-downs, or on to Craig's List.
Let me give my reasons for not using Festool. I always have said they were good tools. When you figure in the research and development plus the cost and a decent profit for investors as well as paying a decent wage. The price of the tool at the retail level would come out at about 50% of the price. They can charge what they want. I am happy to pay a fair price for quality tools. That's just it; a fair price. Festool is trying to sell their tool's quality by charging more, inferring that they are worth the price. I wouldn't bat an eye if Festool was at 50% of the current price. It's like a cup of condensed soup selling for $10. Is it good soup, yes. Is it worth $10? No. As for ease of use, it's like Snapon tools; it's just not worth the money no matter how good it is. And for the ease of use. There are plenty of tools, if you think about that can be made to operate as well. Also, Festool is off standard so if something breaks, I'm out of luck. If they were sent free to me, I wouldn't use them other than for paper weights or the equivelant. I would invest in the parent company of Festool if I was twenty years younger, that's different then using their products. Be safe.
For me, it all came down to dust collection. It’s a health issue for me and in my experience, the festool is the best I have ever used. To me, it’s worth the investment and when it’s time for me to replace a tool, it will be a festool.
I have used Festool tools and Woodpeckers tools at demonstrations. I like both companies tools but I cannot afford them. I am just a DIY man, I love woodworking. It is how I fight PTSD. I am a disabled Viet Nam veteran and I am happy with what I have. And I thank God that I survived that war.
I'm Dutch from Europe and I own the festool track saw ts 55. I own the rotex 90 from festool and I own the CTL Mini II vacuüm from Festool. I Work freelance in construction and Yes. I've been eating instant noodles like for ever... to buy these tools!! But people know about Festool and they know about the Festool brand... In Europe any Festool vacuüm is a must have, if you work Freelance in construction. If you want to do any paintjobs or renovation project you need a Festool grinder. If you also bring out your Festool track saw....Boy! People go crazy!! Like people see a Bentley or a Rolls Royce... Like I'm the best Freelance construction worker, "Ever" they asked doing a job on their home... and I'm not!!! I know I do my job correct. But I'm not Superman. It's because people see a Festool Tool. And the Festool vacuüm, it's just great. The Festool track saw, it's just great. The Festool Rotex 90 is a great grinder. Both operate with the Festool vacuüm and it's fun to work with. I own a DeWalt impact driver and it's a great tool. I own a Makita jigsaw and a Makita drill. I own a Bosch "bleu" Hamer. I own a Fein multitool. And I'm saying this to give an insight...about the power tools I own and I work with.... But Still....Still...I want to own a Festool Impact driver! But I also think about a Keyang impact driver... or maybe buying a new one from DeWalt. But even still...still...the Festool impact driver is something I really would like to own and work with... I don't know. Toys for boys maybe, hahaha... and the Makita 40Volt it's just really mad. To fully change into a hole new system working Freelance... I'de rather eat intstant noodles for a month and I would buy a new Festool tool, before I change into a 40Volt systeem. Just enjoy working and constructing using different types of cool power tools and machines...And building stuff!!! Don't be focused on one brand or on one Tool... buy the tools to do your job and try to make people happy! It's not about the Tools you use, it's about the job you do. Build stuff and make people happy!!! It's not about a brand of power tools. We get paid to build or we get paid by people to Build!!!... Build me my home?....it's what we do!!!
I love my Festool gear. I have the Domino 500, the CT26 Dust Extractor, a Karvex Jigsaw, and 4 sanders. They make fantastic tools that are well engineered, a pleasure to use and well, I can afford them. They just work.
sounds kind of like the YETI brand for coolers, people talk so much crap about it but in reality they are super well made the knock offs can be really good as well but honestly not as well made if you look at the details as YETI I think the issue with many is they cant afford it so instead of just saying" well this is too rich for my blood" or " I would rather spend my money on something else" they instead want to not only talk down on the product but also clown on the people who do buy it as if they are showoffs or somehow stupid.
I’m a weekend woodworker. I was shocked at the price when I first learned of festool. After years of frustration at wasted time and projects from cheaper tools I’m currently saving up for my first festool/ first track saw.
The value of a good tool goes up exponentially. I don't do enough woodworking to justify festool prices, but I never by cheap shitty tools. It's. Just. Not. Worth. It.
I had to save up for my TS 55 tracksaw but I would buy another one in a heartbeat if anything happened to mine. It will make you a more accurate woodworker, it is much safer than a circular saw and if you own a table saw you can put a sheet of wood on it and use it as a coffee table because you won't be use it that much anymore. If someone asked me if I could only own one Festool product, it would be the TS55 Tracksaw.
What a Super Cool Video!! Love the history bit on the company (great vid series idea, hint, hint). As far as my take on this company; I don't understand why people HATE good quality and precision? I don't have any Festool tools because of the cost, but if finances weren't a factor, I have a short list of their tools I would go out and get tomorrow. When it comes to building quality projects, quality tools will ALWAYS make a difference, even if it's just a time difference. Excellent video Matt, thanks!!
I don't hate Festool, I just can't afford it, most of my tools were either inherited from my dad or bought second hand. I'm just a basic diyer and plan on making small projects, just something to to.
Other than the domino and dust extractor there is no other festool tool that really interests me. I’m a makita fan and they offer everything I need. I’m pretty sure they (makita and the other big name tool brands) already have their version of a domino made and are just waiting for the patent to expire. I’ve never had a customer say to me that I can see that timber has been cut and sanded with a festool…lol..and yes I have used festool on many occasions but they have never really appealed to me as good as what they are. Thanks for the info and videos you supply , keep it up!!
makita has a big problem with quality, we have a lot broken tools from makita but festool only one it was replaced in 2 days. and youtube is full of defect and fault makita tools
I am deeply sorry but I cannot fully agree with you. I am a pure hobbyist and never sold any of my projects. But, I spent my money on some Festool tools because my level of experience cannot compensate for a poorly made tool. The domino along with the CT36 was my exact first combo and I’ve never regretted it. It is a pure joy to use. No fuss, no frustration. Thanks for that video !
Honestly, if I was able to afford Festool products, I would love to have just about everything they have available....BUT, I simply have to get what I'm able to afford at this time.
I’m a professional carpenter and find the price is a hard pill to swallow but no doubt it’s extremely well engineered and thought out stuff. It changed the way I work and if I could afford it I’d buy it all
Some of its great. But I’m not so enamored that I’d kit everything out in neon green. I’d probably get the Rotex, the dust extractor, track saw, and domino. But the rest doesn’t seem any better than alternatives for me.
It all depends on how much you use the tool, I’ve had a Festool sander for 18 years and it’s fantastic, I like the Domino but very expensive, but a fantastic tool.
One of the issues these days is that the price of something tells you little about the standards and reliability of what you're getting. A cheapo tool may well wind up being of better quality as they're not able to saturate the airwaves with advertising and have to focus more on word of mouth. But, it's very case by case and brands that were great a couple decades ago may well have been sold to private equity firms and stripped of any actual quality.
I’m considering a domino. As a hobby, with very limited time in the shop, I’m thinking the speed will help me increase my ability to complete projects I’m a more timely manner. Expensive, but I’m learning the time is more valuable.
The best tools don't always make a better product. However, it does make the work more enjoyable. It's what fits your budget and need. I would rather a BMW to my Toyota. Both get me where I need to go but, the BMW just makes the journey so much better. :)
Yeah but the Toyota won’t give you all the maintenance and repair problems. It will be more luxurious in the BMW though for sure. Depends on what you value. But I guess in this scenario money is no object, it would still be annoying to me to have to take it in for repairs or get a new car more often. I also don’t drive much so luxury in that regard was never important to me.
I had a lot of work done at a previous house, including a pro fitted kitchen. I always say “the tool is the tool, the blade, bit/blade does the job” but the tool has to still turn the cutting edge. 12 years later and I’m working on my own renovation. I made a conscious decision as I needed 18v as there was limited power on site. I choose makita lxt as my system. But as soon as the power was improved, as well as the hard yards of work (cutting, sanding, planing etc ) festool was my choice of 240v system. It’s always the same, people roll their eyes when you mention the F brand. Then they see the quality of the cuts, they are incredibly and the confidence using them installs in you. There’s only you to blame when it goes wrong, because the tool will never let you down.
Festool is family owned, treats their employees like family, and is primarily aimed at professional mobile carpenters. Hobbyists/weekend warriors should keep that in mind. And when you try one for yourself, you realize you get what you pay for. I’d rather spend $500 on a sander once in my life and not have my hand tingle instead of replacing the $100 dewalt every two years when it breaks conveniently.
I had the choice of the Festool track saw and the Makita one. I choose the Makita and don’t regret it to be honest. But I’d love the kapex ive been oohing over that for a while. Think most of the festool hate comes from £££. Jealousy doesn’t make friends .
Do you really need the kapex though? What can it do that a tuned up $200 Dewalt miter saw can’t? The price difference is staggering. And most woodworkers use table saws as their main tool anyway. I have a squared up basic Dewalt and can cut as precise as I’d ever have to as a woodworker. I’m all for expensive tools if they are actually better than the basic alternatives. But is the kapex actually that much better? Maybe for dust collection inside someone house, but in a woodworking shop?
I'm a hobbyist, yet own a bunch of their tools, including the basis table (saw, router,...), sanders, vacuum cleaner, etc... and after 20 years of use, they're still almost like new, and accessories are still available for all the models I have... unbeaten ! You can't look at the bare price, it's an investment... if you plan to do a one-shot, forget it, but if you're into woodworking (even as a hobbyist), I never encountered anyone regretting to have bought Festool...
Longevity of parts/support is where festool can make sense even for a hobbyist. You have a tool, you get used to the tool, you want it to last a long time and not learn some new tool.
It's not a little more expensive, it's 3-4X expensive. What is frustrating is seeing videos saying "easy to make", but in the video they use $40k in equipment (festool, sawstop). It's irrelevant to me woodworking in my garage. So know your market. And if you're making a video for the diy viewer, put the dang festools and sawstops away and use tools that MOST of us have!
Spending 25-100% more for a tool that is 2% better sometimes not even better, the only good thing they’ve done is domino jointers the rest is really not much better than the other companies. Their drills, drivers, saws are all very underpowered compared to many of the competition
Having done a fairly large number of woodworking projects myself, I've talked to a few people about getting started. My vote is a simple 10 or 12 inch DeWalt miter saw at the most. Take that $1600 and buy the
The big festool chop saw is not worth the cost. I owned it at one point and didnt like it much mainly because you were locked into using their blades and the saw really didnt do much that other brands did for half the cost. I use makitas mostly, however as I have gotten older I look more and more at the smaller chop saws, for me I dont need 10" saws much. Festool is releasing a smaller battery powered saw that looks interesting. Still a hefty price tag.
@@paulhouseholder9360I have the basic dewalt 12” miter saw. Buying the non sliding version is better because it’s less slop and thus more accurate. I tuned it up to make sure it’s square in all three planes and made a zero clearance plate and fence on it. Cost $200 and I can cut as precise as a I would ever need to as a woodworker. Of course I also have a table saw. But I bought my miter saw for home remodeling more so than woodworking. It just wasn’t hard to get it cutting perfectly square so I use it for woodworking too.
The miter saw is one of the festool you just don’t need for woodworking. The sanders and dust collector are cool. The domino and track saw are worth considering. But that’s about it. A Bosch router is just as good. A tuned up basic miter saw is fine. Every brand has certain tools that are too off the line or near enough to make no difference. Bosch routers Milwaukee drills etc. festool isn’t needed for every tool but they do have a handful that are great for woodworkers.
i would have to disagree, the festool kapex is sooo much better than the next best miter saw option. we have both the highest end makita and the festool kapex miter saw in our shop and the festool is as accurate as it gets when cutting different angles. it is certainly expensive but it is by far the most accurate@@CarlYota
I do not hate Festool. A buddy of mine owned a Woodcraft store and I used Festool products when I worked in the store's shop. They are really nice, but they aren't for me. There's nothing wrong with the Festool system, but I've created my own system that is tailored to my own needs, and for me it works better.
As a hobbyist, I can afford to spend a bit more on some tools... the trick is figuring out where to spend a little extra to make a difference. And I fully endorse the recommendation made in this video, for the Festool orbital sander and shop vac. I do a lot of sanding (some for home renovations: doors and walls), and the Festool combo is a game changer in dust collection and comfort, even though there are other good brands offering a similar quality. I'd probably buy them again if I only used them for my woodworking projects. Likewise I spent extra on a track saw that I do not use all that often, but when I do I want it to work well and cut true and neatly. Likewise for a good set of combination squares. That are actually square unlike the cheap ones I had. In contrast, I did not spend much on my chisels, tools that I use a lot. I went with someone's recommendation, got a cheap set with handles that looked like they'd last me a while, and spend a lot of time ensuring they are properly set up, and I keep them sharp. YT can be a real money saver if you take the right advice.
I just dropped some dough on the cordless Festool track saw and love it! I run a home repair business and plan on using it for that and a side wood working gig. I dont mind spending extra money on a quality tool thats made in Germany and not China or Mexico. I use Stabilla levels which are German made and the best levels on the planet. My tool bag is full of German made Kinipex tools. They cost more but the quality is un beatable. My livelihood depends on these tools and I am passionate about my job so I have Cadillac tools. I'm kinda a tool snob but I dont care. Haters will always be haters. You do yer thing brother! No hater here!
I like to think that people love to jump on the Festool hating bandwagon, the same way they love to jump on the Nickleback hating bandwagon. There’s no reason to do it other than the fact that everybody else is doing it.
30 seconds in I decided I'm gonna watch this video for the accent if nothing else, ya'll. Also, gotta wonder what they were manufacturing between 1933 and 1946....
I've always been of the opinion that you purchase the best of what you can afford. I was able to purchase a Festool sander and dust extractor last year, finally! I must say, I am so impressed by the tools. They exceeded my already high expectations. The sander is so comfortable to use, and with the dust extraction combined I am now able to sand for hours without the wrist and hand fatigue. Now I can finally make that dining room table I've been wanting to make! My next purchase is going to be the Domino. I'm between jobs right now, so I really cant justify the purchase, but it is going to be my next tool purchase once I have the funds. Festool thinks of all the small, but so important, details of the tools. Thanks for taking the time to research and make this video. I really appreciate the history lesson. Thanks to Jason Bent too!! :)
It's funny when people knock other people for the tools they use. I've never owned a Festool, but I might. I've never even tried any Festool tool but if someone wants to buy and use their tools then good on them. I don't loose one second of sleep over it. It's the same when people knock other people for owning a pickup truck as a family vehicle. "You're not using that truck properly." To want to control how people use an object is loser think.
I got sold on throwing in the towel on avoiding "overpriced for me" with the ETS125REQ+ because of the edge guide. Being able to sand the edge of a 3/4-3" thick edge while maintaining that perfect 45-90 degree angle is fantastic. Yes, I paid more for the guide than I could have bought a nice big box store 5" RO sander. No, I have no regrets doing it. Since then, I added an ETS150/3 and the CT15. The CT15 has more than enough capacity for sanding duties at about half the price of the rest of their vacuums.
That edge guide is fantastic. I'd love to dedicate an ETSC125 to it full time, but sheesh those are expensive! The Bosch GET are a sufficiently burly alternative to the ROs if you find yourself needing something like that.
I didn’t know that edge guide existed until just now. I have the ets125. I don’t think sanding my edges at precise angles matters that much to me for $110, but it’s nice to know it exists. At some point you want to leave room for hand crafted character. Can anyone even tell if your table sides are exactly 90 degrees. Does your 1/16” edge chamfer really have to be sanded perfectly? I guess that’s a question for the philosophers.
Disclaimer: this is my opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of anyone else. I do not necessarily hate festool brand. However, I am a hobbyist. I do not see my hobby becoming a business. I do like to come on TH-cam primarily to get ideas for projects and learn new techniques. Unfortunately it is common to see a channel go from being inspirational to focused in tool review I like a good tool review as much as anybody occasionally but again that’s not the primary reason I’m here. As a hobbyist I can not justify spending the money on festool. When I see a channel that is promoting festool I find they are too focused on tools and not on projects. Really the question is who do you want your audience to be? Hobbyists like myself or serious woodworkers trying to make a business out of it?
I have never used a Festool tool. I’m sure they are quality tools. It seems that some of those (TH-camrs) that own them tend to be a bit”snobbish” about them, which is a turn off
I would rather watch a video with a guy using Ryobi and DeWalt than one that uses Fesstool. Reason is they will have more similar issues to overcome than the guy with a $1200 domino Fesstool. The biggest issue I have with Fesstool is that they are not just a little more expensive. They are like comparing a Ford to a Rolls Royce. Most TH-cam watchers don't have these spendy tools so let's see how you do things with the tools we have.
Grow up. You're not a 15 year old woke girl who calls everyone who disagrees a "hater". People can have good reasons for not liking the Festool brand, and I'm one of them, based on my own experience with their gear. It's true that all their tools are overpriced, but if the quality were top notch it would still be justifiable. However, 2 out of 4 tools I bought from Festool were very hard and even unsafe to work with (the router being the worst), 1 went up in smoke after just 6 months of very light work, and the remaining ones lost their precision very quickly (if they were precise at all to begin with). So, no more Festool for me, based on my own experience and not based on prejudice.
Reason that we hate festool is not because it is expensive. Price is fair and I'll even go as far to say that their machines for most part are not bad. But they are way WAY overrated in most instances Then there is the whole incompatibility with just about any that is not Festool. Proprietary bits, seriously?! God forbid you should make your saws compatible with a different rail system, that would be a scandal! Didn't seem to bother Mafell who gave their MT55cc, undoubtedly the best tracksaw on the market, the ability to use festool and makita tracks just to make it more versatile and convenient for their users. The router track guide has this ability too. Pretty much all Festool machines have countles versions and new models are made at higher rate than smartphones these days. Tracksaws in particular. the TS55 has more letters behind it with each iteration than the whole LGBTQIA2S+ lot. Mafell doesn't do that, they have one version of each machine in particular size and if after years and years they decide to upgrade it, the old one is discontinued. There's a lot to be said about releasing mature products that don't need tweaking with every seasons release and not leaving your customers feel cheated because the last years new model just had a new letter stuck to the back of its name this year. Festool ecosystem? Seriously? Most high end machines come in Tanos boxes and newer ones with T-lock. My extractor hose with a tool adapter works on pretty much every machine i own regardless of the brand. It is nothing special or new or wildly inovative. The cord thing i have to admit is pretty damned cool though and i will be modyfying my most used corded tools Best dust collection on the market? Tell that to my MT55, UVA115 or DDF40 🙄 Festool is the Apple of tool world. And festool fans fit to that comparison perfectly as well. I have over 30 machines from various brands, mostly Makita and Mafell, and not a single Festool. That will not change as even if there was to be a tool made by Festool that is the best suited for my needs i still would not buy it simply because i don't like and don't trust the company.
Nobody I know use the Festool! I own small wood finishing products store and my dad is a wood contractor, we know nobody (of hundred of woodworkers that we might know) who uses this ultra expensive tool brand. It gives me the impression this tools are for the high capacity, high end woodworkers and show off flexers with $700 Apple Watches! Regular woodworkers can't afford this brand, they don't hate it, they just feel the burn on their wallets for the meager gains they offer.
If you watch AvE's tear-down of a Festool track saw, you'll see why I can't see myself splurging on their products. While the usage design is certainly top notch, the materials and internal design leaves a lot to be desired. If they had more skookum internals, I could see the price being justified. I get that there are people who have had their festool for a million years and never had an issue. That's great, but some of us abuse their tools more than others. If you can treat this like it's made of crystal, make sure it is put away properly every time, never gets wet, never dropped in the dirt, never repeatedly put the motor in a bind, etc... Hat's off to you. I buy cheaper tools because I tend to abuse them on occasion, but at least with them, their price more closely reflects their durability. With Festool, they use budget parts to make a top of the line tool, then charge double for it. Maybe hoping the price deters people abusing their products the way they would with a cheaper brand.
@@kwilliams2239 I guess I don't see the correlation between brushless vs brushed and durable vs not durable. I could buy 20 to 30 brushless tools all day long at harbor freight or Amazon for the price of one Festool track saw. I don't think I would classify them as durable just because they have "brushless" molded into the side of the tool. A brushless motor is just more energy efficient than its brushed counter-part. It also requires a lot more circuitry to control it. IOW, more things that can break. I liken it to people who still buy BMW. They will never admit that BMW makes highly designed mediocre products over the last couple of decades. They still see that brand as a status symbol, and convince themselves that it's fine for regular maintenance and repairs to cost so much, or that replacing their car every 3 years is normal. You might have the similar problems with a Ford or a Kia, but at least you are paying Ford/Kia prices.
Festool is actually a VERY small company. TTI and others are 100 times bigger. Festool only does woodworking. Milwaukee and Dewalt, woodworking is a small part of their offerings.
I was Milwaukee and had DeWalt friends/coworkers. We never really cared, but we'd rib each other. But what is crazy about the Festool haters is that it all just boils down to jealousy. They are angry that they cant afford the best. Am I angry I cant afford the best? No. Would I buy the best even if I could? No. But it does not hurt my pride at all to acknowledge that Festtool is the best.
As a seller of these tools you explained it pretty well, Our store has most of the popular tools ready for anyone to try out to compare to what they currently have. More times I can count they are amazed at the simple ets125 and buy that as their first purchase along with the ct15 or ct mini for the home shop. Keep these videos coming.
I don't hate Festool, I just didn't choose to buy one of their tools yet, and one of the reasons is the price. I started with Makita and their 18V-System, and whenever I need a new tool I first have a look at their offering, then compare it to other brands, if there is anything much better. And although Makita is my first choice, I'm not so fixed on that brand, so I got a few tools from Bosch for example as well. Festool hasn't be the winner in such a comparison yet, but maybe one day I'll buy one, if the higher price is justified if the tool is so much better than others. Still I appreciate your video, and I thank You for that! 🙂 And I thank You for something else, because I learned something new: I as a German always thougt that Festool is an american brand, but I needed an American to tell me it's a german brand! 😅
SKILSAW Power Tools was founded in 1924 by Edmond Michel. With the invention of its flagship tool, the SKILSAW Model E, equipped with an 8-inch blade, It was the world's first portable circular saw.
I had a Festool Trion jigsaw that lasted over 10 years working on site. It had a hard life, mostly cutting through 45mm worktops. It went through 000’s of blades, even got dropped of 3 story scaffolding and carried on working. It paid for itself in the first couple of years. Great accurate jigsaw. I have 17 Festool tools and wouldn’t ever go to another brand. The engineering and just feels like a quality tool in your hand. When I try friends other brands they really just feel like toys. You won’t ever be sold if you worry about the money, but it’s honestly worth every penny. 3 years warranty. 10 years guaranteed parts, 3 years theft cover for £100 if anything is ever stolen. Plus their customer service. They pick up the tool if it fails under warranty and drop it back to your address once it’s repaired. Festool is an investment in your tool collection. One more thing, try the Kapex without dust extraction for a few cuts then put it back and and you realise how good it is. Is it perfect, No is it better then other mitre saws, absolutely yes.
Start off by saying I don't hate that store and have no problem with the people that use them. I will say this though I've been in the trades since I was 15 years old and I'm 52 now, the festival is not just overpriced way overpriced and the sit there and lie and say that one job would pay for one of them I don't know what type of furniture you're selling but I there's no way unless you're selling up live-edge desk or something that's huge that one guy would pay for those tools they are ridiculously priced that's why I don't care for him I like I said I don't have a problem with people using them and I don't think it's a garbage tour anyting I just think it's way overpriced I personally stick with the water in Milwaukee that's just personal preference
Festool hate is primarily based on one emotion: ENVY. They can afford it and you can’t. Just admit it. Jealousy is the primary driver of Festool hatred.
"carpenters" that use only festool and you give a another tool brand they're like a deer in headlights. Plus they're just ugly looking. My day job is in a wood shop and my hobby is making furniture so i know a thing or two about woodworking tools. And festool is just a waste of money its just a company with good marketing
I've been a professional carpenter for 25 years. I love some festool tools, the drills in particularly. That said its really hard not to hate on the brand. The main problem with festool is the price, then Apple style way of marketing, deliberately making their tools in incompatible for no reason i.e. Centrotech. The cherry on top is most of their line of tools are flimsily built with excessive amounts of tacky plastic parts.
The white plastic they use just screams "cheap" to me for some reason. I know it's high quality as you say. It's just too bad they went with that color scheme.
Maybe it is, I don’t need it, I can’t afford it so it’s not something to worry about, if you’re happy with your tools, they work and you can afford them, go for it. Same for everything in life.
All the hate is is jealousy. They can’t afford or can but don’t want to dish out the money, they dish out hate on those that do. Live and let live people. Be happy with what you got and be happy for others and their things.
I get why some people like throwing money at this company but all I see is plastic. Plastic knobs on plastic housings. For that price I expect machined metal components.
A company that can sell you a 'box' whilst claiming it is a revolutionary storage and transportation solution. Alongside a second mortgage to enable you to afford said box.
I DON'T HATE FESTOOL, I JUST DON'T SEE THE NEED IN SPENDING TO BUY THEM WHEN I CAN DO JUST AS GOOD JOB USEING MY CRAFESMAN, AND DEWALT, AND SOME OTHER CHEAPER TOOLS. THAT DO JUST AS GOOD OF A JOB... I'VE SEEN A LOT OF BEAUTIFUL WOOD WORKING THAT A FESTOOL WAS NEVER USED ON SO YOU GO AHEAD AND SPEND THAT MONEY ON YOUR FESTOOL AND ENJOY IT AND I'LL JUST KEEP ON USEING MY SUFF... IN FACK I'M WILLING TO BET YOU THAT IF WE BUILT THE SAME PROJECT YOU USEING YOUR FESTOOL AND ME USEING MY TOOLS THEY WOULD BE THE SAME...
I just purchased the dual battery operated sliding table saw, expensive yes, but site portable and angle cuts can be adjusted to the tenth of a mm. If I want to do 1 or 2 cuts I can attach the dust bag and dust is minimal. For me as a contracted carpenter and joiner it has been absolutely worth the expense.
I have nothing against festool. For me there’s just too many other great options for a lower price. I do get irritated when someone is asked “what is your favorite tool”. Answer? Instead of mentioning the tool they seem to have to mention the brand name. That’s why I call them bragging rights tools. I guess bottom line: people want what they want. It’s just that simple. Some folks get by with what they have and some folks want designer tools. Doesn’t make anyone a bad person.
Whats really annoying is when people cant stop talking about their tools. Obviously youtube is a big sales event. This video too. Its about how great those tools are and they want to make people feel like they have to buy that. Because it makes everything so much easier. Also its annoying that people tell me festool sandpaper is so great. They dont make sanding paper. Its just rebranded and any good brand will do just as well. Its surprising how many videos deal with tools and how few deal with skills, aesthetics, making comfortable furniture, and so on. Its sales guys. All of this is just sales blabla.
Sadly the opinion of someone who's videos are full of festool affiliate links is worth nothing. Maybe people are fed up with all the tool "reviews" that are nothing but shilling. Just like this video is. Nobody cares about the tools you used. People care about the work. There's no other reason to keep talking about tool brands than selling stuff to people and making a profit through Amazon affiliate links. I don't hate festool. I could care less about tool brands. I hate those shills on TH-cam who provide no information.
Thanks for the insight into a tool company. While Festool is not for me at my skill level and budget, that does not change the fact that it is a well made, well backed, long lasting tool. This video is not a 'commercial" for Festool, it is someone putting information and opinion out for others to see/hear. Maybe someday I will be able to afford high end tools and I will proudly walk into the store, look over and try Festool. Until then I will walk into my "Big Box Store" and just as proudly checkout and purchase the tools that I do. Stop with the hater crap and just be happy that these folk that we watch on youtube have been blessed to be able to get these tools and share with us the thoughts on them. Thanks Matt, keep up thee good work!!!
I own some Festool machines (router, jigsaw, tracksaw). Just today I replaced my ATF 55 FB/1 track saw after 24 years flawless working. But nothing last forever. Of course I bought a Festool again (TS 55 FEBQ plus). All the 24 year old accessories like the rail guides can still be used. And my newer guide rails work together with the old ones. The new systainer can be stacked with the old systainers. I think Festool machines are worth the money.
The worst part about Festool is that TH-cam woodworkers don’t stop talking about them. My dad and I watched The New Yankee Workshop all the time when I was growing up. The focus of the program was building projects and, more importantly, inspiring woodworkers by showing Norm’s love of the craft. TH-cam woodworkers used to operate under this same model until a few years ago, when corporate sponsorships turned the most interesting and instructive video channels into long-format infomercials. Festool might be the default choice for “pros,” but you’re missing the point about the supposed “haters.” (FYI, this term is used to describe people who you believe are jealous of what you have; it’s not a good look.) The point is that Festool is prohibitively expensive for the average person. So messaging around expensive tools as being made for those who want to woodwork for money only makes the craft more elitist. For real, brother. You’re better than all this wanton product hawking.
@@djstuc i only had the corded dewalt and it was a bad sander , the vibration and dust colection was bad. and it has no break and it spins 20 sec after turn off.
@@djstuc I have the cordless 20v dewalt and a Rotex 125. They are not even close. The dewalt does not have good dust extraction. Not even close. Find a Rockler or Woodcraft and spend some time with one.
The source of their battery packs is China. Understandable because of the geo-political issues surrounding Lithium availability, but if you're going to make the case that Festool "treats their employees like family," then please address the treatment of the Chinese employees who make their batteries. Since their new focus seems to be on cordless tools, this is obviously a major part of their enterprise. I know not all manufacturing in China is child/slave labor, so I'd like to think they source from "one of the good ones."
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Great review. I am new to woodworking and consider myself a hobbyist. However, I am a hobbyist with aspirations to be a professional. I don’t own any Festool. Products because where I am in my journey. Maybe someday 😀
Isn't Festool like really expensive stuff?
The reason Festool gets so much hate online is in my opinion because most of us are hobbyist woodworkers, and whether you agree or not, Festool is a high end brand, marketed for serious woodworkers and professionals.
Most people are just tired of seeing it presented so often on hobby channels as if it's a normal every day shop tool to have, which it isn't.
Having options is never a bad thing. Dollar for dollar I think the woodpeckers stuff is the biggest ripoff out there. I say that as someone with multiple sustainers of Festool stuff.
I think this is 100% spot on.
Buy the tool you can afford. Accuracy comes from knowing how to dial in the tool. I don't hate on Festool, I simply can't afford them. My Bosch and Bora track guide cut straight, and ya, I need to use my broom after I get done breaking down sheet goods. I've never heard of a customer complaining that the coffee table they purchased wasn't made with only the most expensive tools? Old Matt loved his Delta 725 table saw. Now he owns a Sawstop. Woodworking is a progression. Use the tools you can afford.
Amen! I'm to the point if I see a Woodpeckers, Festool, or SawStop pop up in a video, I'm not watching the rest of if. Know your audience!
I think most of us just don't see the value return on that high price. I own a Sawstop cabinet saw because it was basically the same price as the Delta and the Grizzly(?) that I was looking at 12 years ago. The quality of the cut and fence seemed to be about equal for all of them, but this one won't cut my fingers off? Sign me up. And it get used for the majority of work on everything I build.
If I have a choice between a Milwaukee, Dewalt, or Makita tool that's solid construction, does the job well, and has some nice features over entry-level junk.... what's the case for buying one that costs twice as much? As a hobbyist like you and everyone else in here, does a $600 saw make a cut better than a $300 saw? For as many cuts as I will make with it in year?
I can afford the tool, if I really wanted it, I just don't think I'd use it enough to pay $5 per cut over the lifetime of the tool. Dominos are the only thing I'm tempted by. If someone make a reasonably priced and SAFE to use domino alternative, I'd probably get one. I build one, maybe two pieces of furniture a year. When I retire, maybe it's worth it. But probably not until then.
I think part of the problem is that DIY guys watch youtube channels for DIY stuff and they often don't realize that the youtuber isn't a DIY'er. The content creators are full time professionals at their job and so investing in higher quality tools typically makes sense for them. The catch is that it sometimes distances them from their viewers to a degree (for right or wrong) and of course you'll never make everyone happy. I'm a mechanic (old car restoration guy) and I see Festool as being the woodworking equivalent of Snap-On (or other high end tools). Sure, a DIY guy can work on a car using harbor freight, craftsman or husky tools, but when you're doing it for a living 50 hours a week you learn that the extra money spent on premium tools isn't always wasted. Some tools are fine to go cheap on and others are well worth the upgrade. It's a good tradesman that can know and understand the difference. Next week I will be sanding down a '55 Chevy and you can bet I'll be using my Hutchins sander and not a harbor freight sander.
Fully agree. In my day job, I use a $4000 laptop, but my wife can handle email and the family accounts on her 4 year old Lenovo quite nicely.
I was a bodyman and a frameman for 45 years at 70 I have probably $30K in Snap-On and others. Now I do woodwork as a hobby and wes Festool has my wallet but I do try save a little by buying China on Amazon. Festool is one of the best but I cringe when I order anything. Well when I,m gone hope my son loves these fine tools
Not necessarily "full time professionals", but **full time professional TH-camRS**. And that specific distinction allows them (if they have the audience) to buy tools and equipment that average working pros can't afford or justify. As a pro (plumber) I don't/can't buy the BEST and MOST EXPENSIVE, but I buy a pro grade that fits into my expense margins. TH-cam "pros" rarely, if ever, need to rely on actual real-world trade profits to buy the tools they need to work - they are "paid" by viewers to keep buying newer and better, while the working pros need to make tools last a decade.
There’s a concept in psychology called “ego centric bias.” It basically means seeing the world and everyone else through the lens of how you understand yourself. In other words thinking that everyone else is similar to you and everything else is made to be for you.
There are people in a New York apartment that literally do not own a hammer, who consider themselves the definition of a “DIY” target audience. So if you post a video that requires a circular saw they will yell at you for having tools that the average DIYer doesn’t have.
These people barely qualify as a crafter since all they own is a pair of scissors but they see the world through their own eyes and want you to make videos specifically for them and their tool less situation.
That’s an extreme example to illustrate the point. But it puts content creators in a weird spot. Everyone has to make a choice about how fancy they are going to make projects.
It’s possible to go so far that you alienate a bunch of people who can’t replicate what you’re doing. But on the other hand I daresay most videos get watched for entertainment or inspiration or general education and not instruction for a specific build.
But it depends on who you’re trying to target and what reason you’re targeting them. Bourbon Moth has said that he realized people were watching for entertainment so he leaned into that. Anyone capable of making his stuff would have the tools and knowledge to figure it out just watching the video anyway.
And most people with that level of skill probably want to make changes so it’s a bespoke piece just for them.
Thing is Festool, isn't what Snap-on used to be, their tools are kinda cheaply made, they do seem to hold up al least as long as the narrow product cycle. Look at Ave's reviews, he found places where there could have been bearings, but instead was a pocket in plastic with some grease. If someone took a Chinesium tool apart and found that, we would never have heard the end of it. He also found beef where it had to be, so not bad. But kinda like the work they are supposed to do, cheap solution to houses that will be vacuumed into the dump in a generation. Don't look behind the curtain.
The design and innovation is excellent, just not something to worship on quality.
I own some festool but the price is still a problem. After 40 years in the business I have found plenty of good brands out there.
Wait till this guy finds out about Mafell....
LeMello, Mirka, Fein, Hilti…
@@robhaydnsei - Fein and Hilti may price the same, but they're not in the same league as Festool and certainly not Mafell. Mirka are specialists (sanding) to me. Priced similalry to Festool and 3M for very similar products but without the same infrastructure.
Erika😍. When you talk about expensive 😭
My 2003 mafell jigsaw. I’m 56 I’ll take bets it will out last me
👍😂😂
Very hard for a Hobbyist/DIY homeowner to justify the price for a tool that will only see occasional use?
Festool products, and people's reactions to them, are interesting. For a finish carpenter, Festool -- particularly the entire Festool ecosystem -- cannot be beat. (We can argue about whether Festool is better than some of its top-notch competitors, but that's a different discussion.) Their tools are portable, accurate, and leave little mess. Perfect for doing precise work at the jobsite.
But, what about a woodworker -- someone who makes fine furniture or meticulously crafted boxes and such -- as opposed to someone who merely works with wood? For a woodworker, Festool doesn't have nearly as much to offer. I used to manage a cabinet mill. If I were setting up a large cabinet shop today, Festool would make up a very small part of my tool budget. Since I won't be taking the tools from jobsite to jobsite, portability isn't a plus factor. Nor am I going to want all those systainers taking up space. I might use a tracksaw for breaking up sheets of plywood, but I doubt it. Instead, I'd use a cart to move materials to the table saw. And, many of those table saws would be sliders. I might have a domino (or three). And, I might have a Kapex. Other than that, I don't think Festool products would have a role in my newly created cabinet shop. All my sanders would be pneumatic as would my drill drivers. I wouldn't have router table, I'd have shapers.
On the other hand, a smaller shop -- even one that does professional work -- might benefit from a whole host of Festool's products. There, Festool's portability pays dividends. Space in such an environment is at a premium, and Festool's ecosystem allows a lot of capability to fit into a relatively small space. If I were building myself such a shop today, it might be exclusively stocked with Festool products.
100% agree, my friend makes bespoke built in furniture and he uses a lot of Festool gear when he is fitting on site but in his shop he mainly has serious machines like a cabinet saw and spindle moulder and radial arm saw, planer and thicknesser etc. Festool really don't make any serious shop machines for making cabinetry other than maybe the domino which is an amazing device.
ANd those pneumatic tools most likely would use festo pneumatic equipment like vavles and so on and so forth, so you would still be using festool or at least stuff from the same parent company.
makita?
@@ReizungV I own several Makita power tools. They are all excellent. However, Makita doesn't have the same kind of ecosystem that Festool has created.
@@DKWalser okey, i dunno what ecosystem they have, but makita has pretty much all tools on 18v and a lot of tools on 40v ?
1st the woodpeckers , 2nd the sawstop , 3rd the festool then packout or packout and then festool .. anyone seen this movie before ?
broken record you say? Yes!
I'm a retired long haul truck driver. When I retired, I started watching TH-cam Woodworking Channels. April Wilkerson was just getting started. So, like her, I figured I could make things I needed rather than purchasing them. With a limited space two car garage, I asked my friend Jesse (he own Eagle Tools in Los Angeles) my options for this small space. He suggested a Festool ts55 Track Saw Kit. He had a Festool Representative stop by my house to demonstrate the track saw. Under his supervision, I made a few cuts and it was Festool from then on. Expensive? You bet! But for me, the perfect and square cuts it makes, made me look like a professional woodworker. My pieces came together square and fit perfect. I now own the MFT/3, two sanders, CT26 Dust Extractor and both the 500 and 700 dominos. Next month, I'll be investing in the Kapex KS 120. I've made a ton of things for both the inside and outside of my home. My kids come over and we make things for their homes. And, best of all, my grandkids come over and safely make things for themselves that they want and need. How do you put a price on that?
Great way to do it.
Yeah, you can do that with other tools too.
Just my way of thinking and it's so much fun to work with good tools.
"Limited" 2 car garage workshop? I'm sure I speak for all of Europe when I say I hate you 😜 Just kidding of course. But a dedicated workshop is a dream for many here.
I think it's awesome that you're passing this on to your kids and grandkids. My parents didn't have much money when we were born, and my dad made all manner of furniture for us, as well as wooden toys. And he taught us how to make or repair things ourselves as well. That is a gift that keeps on giving :)
Yup the only saw that can make square cuts
I've mentioned this on other similar videos. I think the primary reason for the "hate" is not really a criticism of Festool per se. Yes, the price is a big factor and results in jealousy. That actually translates though into a lot of the online "hate". Why do youtubers receive comments like that? More than likely it's not the production shops that get the hate for it. Look at Dusty Lumber's videos. I don't think I see many Festool hatred comments on his video. Why? Because he's always had high end tools on his videos, he's been a production shop since before he started TH-cam. Where you get the hate are the channels that started out with cheap tools, then after their channel grew they upgraded to expensive equipment.
The issue is that the fan base of channels like this one and others like it is primarily hobbyists or those that do woodworking as a side hustle. They likely don't have the money for Festool and probably never will (or even if they do have the money they can't justify the cost over a lower cost tool). They started watching the channel because the creator was "one of us" an everyman buying tools at Harbor Freight and Home Depot. Then, once they start getting all these expensive tools, it feels like they've abandoned who they were. It feels like they are sell out (even if they bought all the new equipment with their own money). It's like a blue collar worker who joins management. Most understand it and are happy for that person (especially if they deserve it), but it's still seen little bit as a betrayal.
Look at Steve Ramsey. He absolutely has the money from his channel to buy a Sawstop, a domino, or whatever other top end equipment he wants. I wouldn't be surprised if he had another shop across the street with top end equipment, but every video is him using an old contractor table saw and all the old "cheap" other equipment. His brand was woodworking for mere mortals and he's never betrayed that. And because of that, everyone loves him and there are very few criticisms of him. In my opinion a lot of the hate isn't necessarily jealousy (though that is a factor), but more a feeling of betrayal and "selling out" on the part of the content creator.
@@EngravinDave that's true, and from a business perspective a content creator has to weigh the cost/benefit of making transitions like upgrading to expensive tools. There will always be "haters" and so the question is how do you deal with them? Do you just ignore it? Do you make videos like this and try to convert them or address some of the criticisms? Or do you try to appease them in some way? There are costs and benefits to all those approaches.
I think Steve's rut has a lot to do with burn out, but also that he's done pretty much every possible video over the years, so where do you go? Do you start repeating videos? Do you rebrand? Do you quit youtube and do something completely different? Do you go the livestream route and just address things as they come in?
Steve has his Woodworking Talk Show podcast, so he’s doing different things
I don't mind those channels a lot, if they do well and can afford nice tools, more power to them. As long as they stay true to what they used to do, things like offering tips and tricks, showing how to do certain things (and not in a way that can only be done with expensive tools), or providing nice ideas (or plans) for new projects.
What I hate are the channels who present an "easy to build doohicky", and start the video with "we'll just run this CAD design through our CNC mill, while we start cutting this inch thick steel with our top of the line automatic plasma cutter".
The only thing I hate about festool is that I don’t own any of their tools yet
I'll have to respectfully disagree with your sander recommendation. The ETS-125 is a "Finish" sander and has a 2mm stroke with a 250-watt motor. It is a common mistake to think that you're buying an entry level priced Festool sander for $249. The 2mm stroke is fantastic with mid to fine grits and leaves a butter smooth finish. But it isn't aggressive at all and will take a long time if you need to remove any amount of material. The best choice is the ETS EC-125 for $475. I get that it is "WAY" more expensive, but it is a much better all-around sander. It is a 3mm stroke with a 400-watt motor which means it works well with course to fine grits and is more aggressive which equals faster sanding, but it is still capable of leaving a fine finish. The ETS-EC 125 would be your go-to everyday sander and the ETS-125 is a sander to use at the end of a project for the final fine sanding. But you really don't "need" an ETS 125 if you already have an ETS-EC 125, see what I mean? Also, the ergonomics of the ETS-EC -125 are usually preferred by most as well, which makes those long sanding session a bit easier.
I own two versions of the ETS-125, the corded as you have in the video and the cordless ETSC-125, so I'm not a hater, I just want people to understand what they are buying before doing so.
All the Best, Chuck
Yes the ets125 is comparable to the orbital sanders you get at Home Depot from Dewalt and Makita. Those are all short stroke finish sanders. And those are what the average person thinks of when they think about sanders. The aggressive $500 one are a different breed meant for hogging off material similar to belt sanders but obviously not that wreckless.
As long as you know what you’re buying and you want a finish sander then the ets125 is fantastic. Much better than the comparable big box brands because it’s not made of plastic drive parts that will brake after moderate use.
I’m f you want something that will flatten your table top that has one board 1/16” proud you should look elsewhere. If you want to take your properly finished piece up through the grits this is what it’s made for.
The major problem I have with these tools is not the tools themselves. Heck I’d love to own a set. My problem is when I started watching you, Wilkerdo’s, Anna White etc, y’all had the same simple set of tools we did. All is a sudden sponsorship is a part of the game. This is great but kinda leaves us little guys wondering if we are still in the same class. Wilkerson got to be where it almost seemed like ever episode was a informercial. Anyways I still love the videos, just kinda wish it was more projects, less tool reviews etc. Keep the faith my brother.
It takes extra tips and tricks to get "regular" tools to give results like high end tools. I learn a lot from watching people use tools with limits like mine and learning about how they get around those limits.
It’s gotta be hard, cuz for them how do you pass up the money? This is their job. I do always enjoy seeing people building things with the tools I have, or even lesser tools than I have!
But Matt is not sponsored by Festool. I don't think that anyone other than Sedge is sponsored that I've seen. What I have seen from Matt and others is as they have become more successful they get to buy nicer gear. Them using better gear is not a problem at all. Everything they all do can be done with any basic gear. Rex the handtool only guy can show you that, granted it makes a weekend project into a month long project.😂 Another example is Guga, a cooking guy. A couple years ago you never saw that guy cooking high end steaks. Now every episode he is cooking Japanese A5 wagyu. I can watch him and pick up tips while cooking my poor mans steaks still. Same way any one of us can pick up tips on the way Matt does stuff here.
Do not like April. Every 20 seconds you get a minute of advertising, both from her and TH-cam. And with that time wasted when should I actually make something miss Sell Out?
I agree with you on some of these channels, but I think many of them really just do bite the bullet and buy once, cry once. To a certain extent it's a matter of priorities. A car channel I've been watching addressed a common misconception people seem to have about "car guys", which is that they must all be filthy rich, but in reality most of them have chosen to wear generic clothes/shoes, they use old phones, etc. and dump the money they save into expensive car parts instead.
It's the same for woodworking tools- do you really NEED that flagship phone? Because you COULD get the newest iPhone or biggest Samsung with all the bells and whistles (which will last you about a couple of months before it's obsolete, and a couple of years before it craps out) but for about the same price you could get, for instance, a Festool ETS EC 150 which will last you a lifetime and really bump up your sanding workflow.
But yeah, April in particular seems to have tons and tons of sponsors and "friends" who just so happens to be experts on this-and-that to come help her out and her videos have become entirely unrelatable as a result.
For casual people, it’s expensive. If you are a shop and are making money, it’s an investment. The replacement service is crazy good. I don’t own any festool yet, but I’m looking at a boring 5” sander just because after using one for a couple days it was much faster, cleaner, and quieter. I used the 3m 710w sanding discs and worked from
120 up to 240 and it was clean.
It’s funny you mention the 125 sander, I have one in my cart lol.
And so it starts! Toe dipped.
New subscriber here. I thought I would give it a try, but I unsubscribe if videos become all about the sponsor. You made it very clear that you are not sponsored by Festool, and I'm pretty sure that their sponsorships are few and far between. I work at a local Woodcraft, and own a bunch of Festool myself, and I'm always getting comments such as "must be tough" and "where are you making all this money to afford Festool?" The bottom line is haters be haters. Festool tools take a beating and they will keep coming back for more. I think the only thing I dislike about the Festool way of thinking is they are transitioning to cordless. Our rep himself said they are planning on nearly a full transition in the future. I'm one who still likes cords on some machines, and I think it's fair to say that when a lot of these batteries are dead, in the distant future of course, they will end up in the landfills.
Our trash ends up in the landfill every day. There will be and are ways to recycle from batteries.
how about if you can afford it you can buy what you want
Matt, serious question, why do you have Festool? You mentioned that it’s for makers and it saves them time (hundreds or thousands of times over - which may be a bit of an exaggeration!), but I see your channel as more of tool reviews and not builds. So did you buy them just to review them?
Real question is did he even pay for them or even pay full price
Hey Craig, no I didn’t (don’t) buy them just to review them. I use them regularly. Just because i don’t make a video of a build doesn’t mean I don’t use the tools. The build videos get less views than tool videos so I choose to do more tool videos vs videos of building things.
@@731Woodworks thanks Matt, appreciate the response. I loved your video on haters (made me check my actions and how I phrased my question to you!) and the suggestion from a follower to do both at the same time. I do like your tool review videos but also love your build videos - so it’d be the best of both worlds! Take care Matt and keep crushing it!
Festool is a nice brand, but I’ll argue till the cows come home that you can do the same job, just as accurate with another brands. I’m not sure if people hate the Festool brand rather than the Festool owners. A lot of Festool owners stick their nose in the air as they tell you how your brand of tool is garbage. You’ll never be able to get the accuracy you get with Festool. It’s like they have to always try to sell you in the brand as though their trying to justify it. The skill of the woodworker is what’s most important, not the tool. I’m not suggesting Festool isn’t a great brand, because it is. It’s just not the be all end all you must have if you’re a real woodworker.
Although it’s ridiculously expensive, hands down the Domino is the one tool that’s worth buying if you’ve got the budget and do a lot of mortise/tenon stuff. The dust extractor is a great compliment to the Domino, but you can use whatever dust collector you want, you just might have a little more dust in the air, which is a bit of a bummer. People say, if you don’t get a Festool dust extractor you’re going to breathe in harmful dust particles. That’s why most of us wear a good mask! The sanders are really nice, but so is the 3M and it’s much cheaper. If you don’t want to pay $400 for the 3M, buy the $200 Mirka knockoff everyone is talking about, or the $100 dewalt. The Dewalt is a good sander, but for $700 you can get a Festool that vibrates way less. The track saw is awesome, but the Kreg and Makita are great saws. I personally use a $100 WEN as I don’t use a track saw much, and after you tinker with the WEN, it’s not a bad little saw. With the Festool, you have to use their blades or you void the warranty if something happens. Of course, you can always slap on the Festool blade before you get warranty work done.
I don’t get understand why people spend the money on the miter saw. In my opinion, that’s a waist of money and just plan stupid. There drill and driver is also a waste of money. You’ll never convince me they do a better job than say a Dewalt. I’ll admit the Festool brand is a great tool company. They make some of the finest tools you can buy. However, for a diy guy working in his garage or small shop as a hoppy or selling stuff on the side, I don’t think they’re worth buying, unless you have an unlimited budget and/or you want everyone to see you own Festool tools to impress people, or so you think. If you buy into the Festool brand and get a lot of their tools, that’s where the brand shines as so many if their tools work together. With just the track saw track and some adapters, you can use several if the tools to produce nice straight lines. Unfortunately, to get into their line if tools, you could outfit your entire shop a few times.
Like I said, I love the Festool Domino as it’s a tool you can’t buy anywhere else, and it does what it does perfectly. The extractor would be nice, but the rest of the tools are way overpriced and you can do the same thing with other brands, they might just do it a little better or with less vibration. It really comes down to your budget, but again, it’s the skill of the woodworker, not the tool brand. If you don’t have the skill, Festool isn’t going ti magically make you better. What did high end furniture makers do before Festool? What did all woodworkers do before Festool was really a player?
I run sound professionally in film/television. I own all of my own equipment as many professional sound mixers do. The cost of a single wireless transmitter and lav (small mic that I place on talent) are over three thousand dollars a channel (per person). I’m also an amateur woodworker and anything Festool makes seems like a WAYYYY better deal than what I pay for way less useful pro sound equipment. Especially being that you can use Festool’s equipment for real life applications.
Right? It's kind of amusing coming from that field where hobbiests with $5k mirrorless rigs are hating on professionals with $50k+ cinema rigs to this one where hobbiests with a $500 contractor saw hating on professionals with a $4k cabinet saw. The time and reliability savings from high end equipment will likely never yeild returns for a hobbiest, and that's okay.
I am in the hobbiest category when it comes to woodworking. While a shop full of Festool tools may not make sense for me, I'm not going to hate on a professional for buying professional tools. I can afford to take my time to get good results whereas a professional needs the best possible results in the shortest time possible. I do happen to own a Festool sander and dust extractor. It's faster, more comfortable to use, and less messy than my Dewalts. It's just an expensive convenience for me, but that time savings and comfort may offer significant value to a pro. The content is still relevant to me, regardless of how fancy the tools are.
You CAN buy quality tools for less. Enough said. Period and all that! 😂
Bottom line, "If you want to make money you haft to spend money".
Yep! And for some reason the floating tenon is the most expensive joinery on earth lol
For me the issue with festool isn't the price, it's the poor quality. I've met a lot of guys with festool tracks and makita track saws because the festool burned out. Not to mention all the miter saws of theirs that burned out.. and the customer service is non existent. I know a guy that owns a small lumber mill and cabinet shop. He loved his festool track saw. But when it burned out he sent it back and was told they couldn't fix it.. apparently he got ino it a little with them and when he got his saw back in the mail it was completely taken apart.. they sent him back a box of parts.. this guy is an old timer, and very friendly. I'm sure he didn't say anything nasty and this is how they treated him. I won't buy any festool product.
the architecture school I went has a wood workshop and when they when from French franc to euro, they bought every festool they could 've bought at that time, they made a budget in French franc and didn't realised with the conversion how expensive in would be, so nowadays they continued happily with festool and I must said I enjoyed every single one of those tool man, I always felt the difference when helping a friend or father in law, and I've to use their tools, so because I had years using these tools and pushing then to the limit I naturally bought them after graduation, even tho I'm not a "professional wood worker" per say because I don't sell what I build, but when I do all my design for my house or I've to build something I'm glad, it really feel different, my father in law once visited my workshop and was happy to see all my tools, (even tho he said it is because I 've great tools I can built greatthing -_-)
I don't think there's a lot of hate for Festool, just as there isn't a lot of hate for Ferrari or Rolls Royce. They are high quality, desirable products that have had a lot of money go into R&D, support, etc. so the prices are perfectly justified, I'm sure. I would say the vast majority of your viewers get that.
However, instead of hate, there may be frustration on the part of viewers who are hobbyists looking for advice from channels like this. And, perhaps you don't realize, but with expensive tools on display like this, it increases the gap between the newbies like me and what used to be project-oriented TH-camrs. When I see that array of Festool boxes on your bench, I think "well, I guess this channel isn't aimed at me any more". You're not deliberately trying to alienate my demographic (hobbyists), but it may have that effect on me and others when content like this is produced.
Don’t forget, this is the same guy would did a ryobi video too!
At one time, I had a garage full of Ryobi, Skil, Dewalt -- and Chicago Electric (Horror Fright) stuff. When I could, by and by, I got better stuff, and the old cheaper stuff went to deserving relatives as hand-me-downs, or on to Craig's List.
Pricey ? The best ? Wait until you use Mafell.
Matt, you gotta stop with the click-bate-ee thumbnails. It’s beneath you :)
Let me give my reasons for not using Festool. I always have said they were good tools. When you figure in the research and development plus the cost and a decent profit for investors as well as paying a decent wage. The price of the tool at the retail level would come out at about 50% of the price. They can charge what they want. I am happy to pay a fair price for quality tools. That's just it; a fair price. Festool is trying to sell their tool's quality by charging more, inferring that they are worth the price. I wouldn't bat an eye if Festool was at 50% of the current price. It's like a cup of condensed soup selling for $10. Is it good soup, yes. Is it worth $10? No. As for ease of use, it's like Snapon tools; it's just not worth the money no matter how good it is. And for the ease of use. There are plenty of tools, if you think about that can be made to operate as well. Also, Festool is off standard so if something breaks, I'm out of luck. If they were sent free to me, I wouldn't use them other than for paper weights or the equivelant. I would invest in the parent company of Festool if I was twenty years younger, that's different then using their products. Be safe.
For me, it all came down to dust collection. It’s a health issue for me and in my experience, the festool is the best I have ever used. To me, it’s worth the investment and when it’s time for me to replace a tool, it will be a festool.
I have used Festool tools and Woodpeckers tools at demonstrations. I like both companies tools but I cannot afford them. I am just a DIY man, I love woodworking. It is how I fight PTSD. I am a disabled Viet Nam veteran and I am happy with what I have. And I thank God that I survived that war.
I'm Dutch from Europe and I own the festool track saw ts 55. I own the rotex 90 from festool and I own the CTL Mini II vacuüm from Festool. I Work freelance in construction and Yes. I've been eating instant noodles like for ever... to buy these tools!! But people know about Festool and they know about the Festool brand... In Europe any Festool vacuüm is a must have, if you work Freelance in construction. If you want to do any paintjobs or renovation project you need a Festool grinder. If you also bring out your Festool track saw....Boy! People go crazy!! Like people see a Bentley or a Rolls Royce... Like I'm the best Freelance construction worker, "Ever" they asked doing a job on their home... and I'm not!!! I know I do my job correct. But I'm not Superman. It's because people see a Festool Tool. And the Festool vacuüm, it's just great. The Festool track saw, it's just great. The Festool Rotex 90 is a great grinder. Both operate with the Festool vacuüm and it's fun to work with. I own a DeWalt impact driver and it's a great tool. I own a Makita jigsaw and a Makita drill. I own a Bosch "bleu" Hamer. I own a Fein multitool. And I'm saying this to give an insight...about the power tools I own and I work with.... But Still....Still...I want to own a Festool Impact driver! But I also think about a Keyang impact driver... or maybe buying a new one from DeWalt. But even still...still...the Festool impact driver is something I really would like to own and work with... I don't know. Toys for boys maybe, hahaha... and the Makita 40Volt it's just really mad. To fully change into a hole new system working Freelance... I'de rather eat intstant noodles for a month and I would buy a new Festool tool, before I change into a 40Volt systeem. Just enjoy working and constructing using different types of cool power tools and machines...And building stuff!!! Don't be focused on one brand or on one Tool... buy the tools to do your job and try to make people happy! It's not about the Tools you use, it's about the job you do. Build stuff and make people happy!!! It's not about a brand of power tools. We get paid to build or we get paid by people to Build!!!... Build me my home?....it's what we do!!!
I love my Festool gear. I have the Domino 500, the CT26 Dust Extractor, a Karvex Jigsaw, and 4 sanders. They make fantastic tools that are well engineered, a pleasure to use and well, I can afford them. They just work.
sounds kind of like the YETI brand for coolers, people talk so much crap about it but in reality they are super well made the knock offs can be really good as well but honestly not as well made if you look at the details as YETI I think the issue with many is they cant afford it so instead of just saying" well this is too rich for my blood" or " I would rather spend my money on something else" they instead want to not only talk down on the product but also clown on the people who do buy it as if they are showoffs or somehow stupid.
I’m a weekend woodworker. I was shocked at the price when I first learned of festool. After years of frustration at wasted time and projects from cheaper tools I’m currently saving up for my first festool/ first track saw.
The value of a good tool goes up exponentially. I don't do enough woodworking to justify festool prices, but I never by cheap shitty tools. It's. Just. Not. Worth. It.
Track saw in general is a great buy, I seriously should have bought one years ago. I went with the Makita, couldn't be more pleased.
I had to save up for my TS 55 tracksaw but I would buy another one in a heartbeat if anything happened to mine.
It will make you a more accurate woodworker, it is much safer than a circular saw and if you own a table saw you can put a sheet of wood on it and use it as a coffee table because you won't be use it that much anymore.
If someone asked me if I could only own one Festool product, it would be the TS55 Tracksaw.
Shop the used market, you can save a few hundred bucks.
Track saw + vacuum are my favourite tools.
I don't own any Festool, don't want any Festool and would never buy Festool...oh look, a Dominoe!! And that track saw!!! Pretty lol!
They can’t afford it so they complain about it
What a Super Cool Video!! Love the history bit on the company (great vid series idea, hint, hint). As far as my take on this company; I don't understand why people HATE good quality and precision? I don't have any Festool tools because of the cost, but if finances weren't a factor, I have a short list of their tools I would go out and get tomorrow. When it comes to building quality projects, quality tools will ALWAYS make a difference, even if it's just a time difference. Excellent video Matt, thanks!!
I don't hate Festool, I just can't afford it, most of my tools were either inherited from my dad or bought second hand. I'm just a basic diyer and plan on making small projects, just something to to.
The #1 in my book..NOT made in china!!!
Other than the domino and dust extractor there is no other festool tool that really interests me. I’m a makita fan and they offer everything I need. I’m pretty sure they (makita and the other big name tool brands) already have their version of a domino made and are just waiting for the patent to expire. I’ve never had a customer say to me that I can see that timber has been cut and sanded with a festool…lol..and yes I have used festool on many occasions but they have never really appealed to me as good as what they are. Thanks for the info and videos you supply , keep it up!!
makita has a big problem with quality, we have a lot broken tools from makita but festool only one it was replaced in 2 days. and youtube is full of defect and fault makita tools
Remember no brand sold at Home Depot has a comprehensive wear and tear three year warranty
It’s a different niche… closer to Hilti
@@robhaydnsei hilti is premium like festool good tool brand and made in lichtenstein👍
I am deeply sorry but I cannot fully agree with you. I am a pure hobbyist and never sold any of my projects. But, I spent my money on some Festool tools because my level of experience cannot compensate for a poorly made tool. The domino along with the CT36 was my exact first combo and I’ve never regretted it. It is a pure joy to use. No fuss, no frustration.
Thanks for that video !
Honestly, if I was able to afford Festool products, I would love to have just about everything they have available....BUT, I simply have to get what I'm able to afford at this time.
I’m a professional carpenter and find the price is a hard pill to swallow but no doubt it’s extremely well engineered and thought out stuff. It changed the way I work and if I could afford it I’d buy it all
Some of its great. But I’m not so enamored that I’d kit everything out in neon green. I’d probably get the Rotex, the dust extractor, track saw, and domino. But the rest doesn’t seem any better than alternatives for me.
It all depends on how much you use the tool, I’ve had a Festool sander for 18 years and it’s fantastic, I like the Domino but very expensive, but a fantastic tool.
One of the issues these days is that the price of something tells you little about the standards and reliability of what you're getting. A cheapo tool may well wind up being of better quality as they're not able to saturate the airwaves with advertising and have to focus more on word of mouth. But, it's very case by case and brands that were great a couple decades ago may well have been sold to private equity firms and stripped of any actual quality.
I’m considering a domino. As a hobby, with very limited time in the shop, I’m thinking the speed will help me increase my ability to complete projects I’m a more timely manner. Expensive, but I’m learning the time is more valuable.
The best tools don't always make a better product. However, it does make the work more enjoyable. It's what fits your budget and need. I would rather a BMW to my Toyota. Both get me where I need to go but, the BMW just makes the journey so much better. :)
Yeah but the Toyota won’t give you all the maintenance and repair problems. It will be more luxurious in the BMW though for sure.
Depends on what you value. But I guess in this scenario money is no object, it would still be annoying to me to have to take it in for repairs or get a new car more often. I also don’t drive much so luxury in that regard was never important to me.
I had a lot of work done at a previous house, including a pro fitted kitchen. I always say “the tool is the tool, the blade, bit/blade does the job” but the tool has to still turn the cutting edge. 12 years later and I’m working on my own renovation. I made a conscious decision as I needed 18v as there was limited power on site. I choose makita lxt as my system. But as soon as the power was improved, as well as the hard yards of work (cutting, sanding, planing etc ) festool was my choice of 240v system. It’s always the same, people roll their eyes when you mention the F brand. Then they see the quality of the cuts, they are incredibly and the confidence using them installs in you. There’s only you to blame when it goes wrong, because the tool will never let you down.
Festool is family owned, treats their employees like family, and is primarily aimed at professional mobile carpenters. Hobbyists/weekend warriors should keep that in mind. And when you try one for yourself, you realize you get what you pay for. I’d rather spend $500 on a sander once in my life and not have my hand tingle instead of replacing the $100 dewalt every two years when it breaks conveniently.
I had the choice of the Festool track saw and the Makita one. I choose the Makita and don’t regret it to be honest. But I’d love the kapex ive been oohing over that for a while. Think most of the festool hate comes from £££. Jealousy doesn’t make friends .
Do you really need the kapex though? What can it do that a tuned up $200 Dewalt miter saw can’t? The price difference is staggering. And most woodworkers use table saws as their main tool anyway. I have a squared up basic Dewalt and can cut as precise as I’d ever have to as a woodworker.
I’m all for expensive tools if they are actually better than the basic alternatives. But is the kapex actually that much better? Maybe for dust collection inside someone house, but in a woodworking shop?
I'm a hobbyist, yet own a bunch of their tools, including the basis table (saw, router,...), sanders, vacuum cleaner, etc... and after 20 years of use, they're still almost like new, and accessories are still available for all the models I have... unbeaten ! You can't look at the bare price, it's an investment... if you plan to do a one-shot, forget it, but if you're into woodworking (even as a hobbyist), I never encountered anyone regretting to have bought Festool...
Longevity of parts/support is where festool can make sense even for a hobbyist. You have a tool, you get used to the tool, you want it to last a long time and not learn some new tool.
Festool is the Apple of wood working - People will hate on it but secretly strive to buy it.
It's not a little more expensive, it's 3-4X expensive. What is frustrating is seeing videos saying "easy to make", but in the video they use $40k in equipment (festool, sawstop). It's irrelevant to me woodworking in my garage. So know your market. And if you're making a video for the diy viewer, put the dang festools and sawstops away and use tools that MOST of us have!
Amen to this comment! These TH-camrs make “easy diy project” videos then whip out their $4k specialty Festool (which they got for free).
Spending 25-100% more for a tool that is 2% better sometimes not even better, the only good thing they’ve done is domino jointers the rest is really not much better than the other companies. Their drills, drivers, saws are all very underpowered compared to many of the competition
Gottlieb, my long lost ancestor. Festool is in my blood.
Are they family owned or part of a multinational conglomerate with many different brands?
@@robhaydnsei Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
I appreciate the effort you into explaining the value. My wallet and ability can’t justify a $1600 miter saw but if you can afford it go for it
Having done a fairly large number of woodworking projects myself, I've talked to a few people about getting started. My vote is a simple 10 or 12 inch DeWalt miter saw at the most. Take that $1600 and buy the
The big festool chop saw is not worth the cost. I owned it at one point and didnt like it much mainly because you were locked into using their blades and the saw really didnt do much that other brands did for half the cost. I use makitas mostly, however as I have gotten older I look more and more at the smaller chop saws, for me I dont need 10" saws much. Festool is releasing a smaller battery powered saw that looks interesting. Still a hefty price tag.
@@paulhouseholder9360I have the basic dewalt 12” miter saw. Buying the non sliding version is better because it’s less slop and thus more accurate.
I tuned it up to make sure it’s square in all three planes and made a zero clearance plate and fence on it. Cost $200 and I can cut as precise as a I would ever need to as a woodworker.
Of course I also have a table saw. But I bought my miter saw for home remodeling more so than woodworking. It just wasn’t hard to get it cutting perfectly square so I use it for woodworking too.
The miter saw is one of the festool you just don’t need for woodworking. The sanders and dust collector are cool. The domino and track saw are worth considering. But that’s about it. A Bosch router is just as good. A tuned up basic miter saw is fine. Every brand has certain tools that are too off the line or near enough to make no difference. Bosch routers Milwaukee drills etc. festool isn’t needed for every tool but they do have a handful that are great for woodworkers.
i would have to disagree, the festool kapex is sooo much better than the next best miter saw option. we have both the highest end makita and the festool kapex miter saw in our shop and the festool is as accurate as it gets when cutting different angles. it is certainly expensive but it is by far the most accurate@@CarlYota
I do not hate Festool. A buddy of mine owned a Woodcraft store and I used Festool products when I worked in the store's shop. They are really nice, but they aren't for me. There's nothing wrong with the Festool system, but I've created my own system that is tailored to my own needs, and for me it works better.
If I were a professional woodworker making high-end furniture and had the money, I would consider Festool.
As a hobbyist, I can afford to spend a bit more on some tools... the trick is figuring out where to spend a little extra to make a difference. And I fully endorse the recommendation made in this video, for the Festool orbital sander and shop vac. I do a lot of sanding (some for home renovations: doors and walls), and the Festool combo is a game changer in dust collection and comfort, even though there are other good brands offering a similar quality. I'd probably buy them again if I only used them for my woodworking projects.
Likewise I spent extra on a track saw that I do not use all that often, but when I do I want it to work well and cut true and neatly. Likewise for a good set of combination squares. That are actually square unlike the cheap ones I had. In contrast, I did not spend much on my chisels, tools that I use a lot. I went with someone's recommendation, got a cheap set with handles that looked like they'd last me a while, and spend a lot of time ensuring they are properly set up, and I keep them sharp.
YT can be a real money saver if you take the right advice.
I just dropped some dough on the cordless Festool track saw and love it! I run a home repair business and plan on using it for that and a side wood working gig. I dont mind spending extra money on a quality tool thats made in Germany and not China or Mexico. I use Stabilla levels which are German made and the best levels on the planet. My tool bag is full of German made Kinipex tools. They cost more but the quality is un beatable. My livelihood depends on these tools and I am passionate about my job so I have Cadillac tools. I'm kinda a tool snob but I dont care. Haters will always be haters. You do yer thing brother! No hater here!
I like to think that people love to jump on the Festool hating bandwagon, the same way they love to jump on the Nickleback hating bandwagon. There’s no reason to do it other than the fact that everybody else is doing it.
30 seconds in I decided I'm gonna watch this video for the accent if nothing else, ya'll.
Also, gotta wonder what they were manufacturing between 1933 and 1946....
I've always been of the opinion that you purchase the best of what you can afford. I was able to purchase a Festool sander and dust extractor last year, finally! I must say, I am so impressed by the tools. They exceeded my already high expectations. The sander is so comfortable to use, and with the dust extraction combined I am now able to sand for hours without the wrist and hand fatigue. Now I can finally make that dining room table I've been wanting to make! My next purchase is going to be the Domino. I'm between jobs right now, so I really cant justify the purchase, but it is going to be my next tool purchase once I have the funds. Festool thinks of all the small, but so important, details of the tools. Thanks for taking the time to research and make this video. I really appreciate the history lesson. Thanks to Jason Bent too!! :)
It's funny when people knock other people for the tools they use. I've never owned a Festool, but I might. I've never even tried any Festool tool but if someone wants to buy and use their tools then good on them. I don't loose one second of sleep over it.
It's the same when people knock other people for owning a pickup truck as a family vehicle. "You're not using that truck properly." To want to control how people use an object is loser think.
I got sold on throwing in the towel on avoiding "overpriced for me" with the ETS125REQ+ because of the edge guide. Being able to sand the edge of a 3/4-3" thick edge while maintaining that perfect 45-90 degree angle is fantastic. Yes, I paid more for the guide than I could have bought a nice big box store 5" RO sander. No, I have no regrets doing it. Since then, I added an ETS150/3 and the CT15. The CT15 has more than enough capacity for sanding duties at about half the price of the rest of their vacuums.
That edge guide is fantastic. I'd love to dedicate an ETSC125 to it full time, but sheesh those are expensive! The Bosch GET are a sufficiently burly alternative to the ROs if you find yourself needing something like that.
I didn’t know that edge guide existed until just now. I have the ets125. I don’t think sanding my edges at precise angles matters that much to me for $110, but it’s nice to know it exists.
At some point you want to leave room for hand crafted character.
Can anyone even tell if your table sides are exactly 90 degrees. Does your 1/16” edge chamfer really have to be sanded perfectly?
I guess that’s a question for the philosophers.
Disclaimer: this is my opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinion of anyone else.
I do not necessarily hate festool brand. However, I am a hobbyist. I do not see my hobby becoming a business. I do like to come on TH-cam primarily to get ideas for projects and learn new techniques. Unfortunately it is common to see a channel go from being inspirational to focused in tool review I like a good tool review as much as anybody occasionally but again that’s not the primary reason I’m here.
As a hobbyist I can not justify spending the money on festool. When I see a channel that is promoting festool I find they are too focused on tools and not on projects.
Really the question is who do you want your audience to be? Hobbyists like myself or serious woodworkers trying to make a business out of it?
Have you watched Bourbon Moth/Jason Hibbs or Four Eye Furniture?
Shop full of Festool but also tons of project videos
I have never used a Festool tool. I’m sure they are quality tools. It seems that some of those (TH-camrs) that own them tend to be a bit”snobbish” about them, which is a turn off
Agree. Some come off as very snobbish about them, many of them are gifted Festools from the manufacturer to promote them.
I have the rotex 150 and the entry level dust extracted and I honestly will be buying more Festool products in the future
Agree - my Rotex sander is unbelievably good - expensive but so worth it.
I would rather watch a video with a guy using Ryobi and DeWalt than one that uses Fesstool. Reason is they will have more similar issues to overcome than the guy with a $1200 domino Fesstool.
The biggest issue I have with Fesstool is that they are not just a little more expensive. They are like comparing a Ford to a Rolls Royce.
Most TH-cam watchers don't have these spendy tools so let's see how you do things with the tools we have.
Grow up. You're not a 15 year old woke girl who calls everyone who disagrees a "hater".
People can have good reasons for not liking the Festool brand, and I'm one of them, based on my own experience with their gear.
It's true that all their tools are overpriced, but if the quality were top notch it would still be justifiable.
However, 2 out of 4 tools I bought from Festool were very hard and even unsafe to work with (the router being the worst), 1 went up in smoke after just 6 months of very light work, and the remaining ones lost their precision very quickly (if they were precise at all to begin with). So, no more Festool for me, based on my own experience and not based on prejudice.
Reason that we hate festool is not because it is expensive. Price is fair and I'll even go as far to say that their machines for most part are not bad. But they are way WAY overrated in most instances
Then there is the whole incompatibility with just about any that is not Festool. Proprietary bits, seriously?! God forbid you should make your saws compatible with a different rail system, that would be a scandal! Didn't seem to bother Mafell who gave their MT55cc, undoubtedly the best tracksaw on the market, the ability to use festool and makita tracks just to make it more versatile and convenient for their users. The router track guide has this ability too.
Pretty much all Festool machines have countles versions and new models are made at higher rate than smartphones these days. Tracksaws in particular. the TS55 has more letters behind it with each iteration than the whole LGBTQIA2S+ lot. Mafell doesn't do that, they have one version of each machine in particular size and if after years and years they decide to upgrade it, the old one is discontinued. There's a lot to be said about releasing mature products that don't need tweaking with every seasons release and not leaving your customers feel cheated because the last years new model just had a new letter stuck to the back of its name this year.
Festool ecosystem? Seriously? Most high end machines come in Tanos boxes and newer ones with T-lock.
My extractor hose with a tool adapter works on pretty much every machine i own regardless of the brand. It is nothing special or new or wildly inovative. The cord thing i have to admit is pretty damned cool though and i will be modyfying my most used corded tools
Best dust collection on the market? Tell that to my MT55, UVA115 or DDF40 🙄
Festool is the Apple of tool world. And festool fans fit to that comparison perfectly as well.
I have over 30 machines from various brands, mostly Makita and Mafell, and not a single Festool. That will not change as even if there was to be a tool made by Festool that is the best suited for my needs i still would not buy it simply because i don't like and don't trust the company.
Festool is the SnapOn of wood working.
Nobody I know use the Festool! I own small wood finishing products store and my dad is a wood contractor, we know nobody (of hundred of woodworkers that we might know) who uses this ultra expensive tool brand. It gives me the impression this tools are for the high capacity, high end woodworkers and show off flexers with $700 Apple Watches!
Regular woodworkers can't afford this brand, they don't hate it, they just feel the burn on their wallets for the meager gains they offer.
If you watch AvE's tear-down of a Festool track saw, you'll see why I can't see myself splurging on their products. While the usage design is certainly top notch, the materials and internal design leaves a lot to be desired. If they had more skookum internals, I could see the price being justified.
I get that there are people who have had their festool for a million years and never had an issue. That's great, but some of us abuse their tools more than others. If you can treat this like it's made of crystal, make sure it is put away properly every time, never gets wet, never dropped in the dirt, never repeatedly put the motor in a bind, etc... Hat's off to you. I buy cheaper tools because I tend to abuse them on occasion, but at least with them, their price more closely reflects their durability.
With Festool, they use budget parts to make a top of the line tool, then charge double for it. Maybe hoping the price deters people abusing their products the way they would with a cheaper brand.
Track saw of that vintage but the newer models are completely redesigned and have brushless motors.
@@kwilliams2239
I guess I don't see the correlation between brushless vs brushed and durable vs not durable. I could buy 20 to 30 brushless tools all day long at harbor freight or Amazon for the price of one Festool track saw. I don't think I would classify them as durable just because they have "brushless" molded into the side of the tool.
A brushless motor is just more energy efficient than its brushed counter-part. It also requires a lot more circuitry to control it. IOW, more things that can break.
I liken it to people who still buy BMW. They will never admit that BMW makes highly designed mediocre products over the last couple of decades. They still see that brand as a status symbol, and convince themselves that it's fine for regular maintenance and repairs to cost so much, or that replacing their car every 3 years is normal.
You might have the similar problems with a Ford or a Kia, but at least you are paying Ford/Kia prices.
Festool is actually a VERY small company. TTI and others are 100 times bigger. Festool only does woodworking. Milwaukee and Dewalt, woodworking is a small part of their offerings.
I was Milwaukee and had DeWalt friends/coworkers. We never really cared, but we'd rib each other. But what is crazy about the Festool haters is that it all just boils down to jealousy. They are angry that they cant afford the best. Am I angry I cant afford the best? No. Would I buy the best even if I could? No. But it does not hurt my pride at all to acknowledge that Festtool is the best.
As a seller of these tools you explained it pretty well, Our store has most of the popular tools ready for anyone to try out to compare to what they currently have. More times I can count they are amazed at the simple ets125 and buy that as their first purchase along with the ct15 or ct mini for the home shop. Keep these videos coming.
Thanks Bob
@@731Woodworks don't understand how you give a platform to Festool but never even speak of Mafell!!!
I don't hate Festool, I just didn't choose to buy one of their tools yet, and one of the reasons is the price. I started with Makita and their 18V-System, and whenever I need a new tool I first have a look at their offering, then compare it to other brands, if there is anything much better. And although Makita is my first choice, I'm not so fixed on that brand, so I got a few tools from Bosch for example as well. Festool hasn't be the winner in such a comparison yet, but maybe one day I'll buy one, if the higher price is justified if the tool is so much better than others.
Still I appreciate your video, and I thank You for that! 🙂 And I thank You for something else, because I learned something new: I as a German always thougt that Festool is an american brand, but I needed an American to tell me it's a german brand! 😅
"Let's do this amazing woodworking project with scrap wood!"
Pulls out $50000 worth of equipment.
SKILSAW Power Tools was founded in 1924 by Edmond Michel. With the invention of its flagship tool, the SKILSAW Model E, equipped with an 8-inch blade, It was the world's first portable circular saw.
I had a Festool Trion jigsaw that lasted over 10 years working on site. It had a hard life, mostly cutting through 45mm worktops. It went through 000’s of blades, even got dropped of 3 story scaffolding and carried on working. It paid for itself in the first couple of years. Great accurate jigsaw. I have 17 Festool tools and wouldn’t ever go to another brand. The engineering and just feels like a quality tool in your hand. When I try friends other brands they really just feel like toys. You won’t ever be sold if you worry about the money, but it’s honestly worth every penny. 3 years warranty. 10 years guaranteed parts, 3 years theft cover for £100 if anything is ever stolen. Plus their customer service. They pick up the tool if it fails under warranty and drop it back to your address once it’s repaired. Festool is an investment in your tool collection. One more thing, try the Kapex without dust extraction for a few cuts then put it back and and you realise how good it is. Is it perfect, No is it better then other mitre saws, absolutely yes.
Start off by saying I don't hate that store and have no problem with the people that use them. I will say this though I've been in the trades since I was 15 years old and I'm 52 now, the festival is not just overpriced way overpriced and the sit there and lie and say that one job would pay for one of them I don't know what type of furniture you're selling but I there's no way unless you're selling up live-edge desk or something that's huge that one guy would pay for those tools they are ridiculously priced that's why I don't care for him I like I said I don't have a problem with people using them and I don't think it's a garbage tour anyting I just think it's way overpriced I personally stick with the water in Milwaukee that's just personal preference
Festool hate is primarily based on one emotion: ENVY. They can afford it and you can’t. Just admit it. Jealousy is the primary driver of Festool hatred.
"carpenters" that use only festool and you give a another tool brand they're like a deer in headlights. Plus they're just ugly looking. My day job is in a wood shop and my hobby is making furniture so i know a thing or two about woodworking tools. And festool is just a waste of money its just a company with good marketing
I've been a professional carpenter for 25 years. I love some festool tools, the drills in particularly. That said its really hard not to hate on the brand. The main problem with festool is the price, then Apple style way of marketing, deliberately making their tools in incompatible for no reason i.e. Centrotech. The cherry on top is most of their line of tools are flimsily built with excessive amounts of tacky plastic parts.
The white plastic they use just screams "cheap" to me for some reason. I know it's high quality as you say. It's just too bad they went with that color scheme.
I did not know they owned all those companies.
I’m a hater only because of price. However I think the quality is very good.
Maybe it is, I don’t need it, I can’t afford it so it’s not something to worry about, if you’re happy with your tools, they work and you can afford them, go for it.
Same for everything in life.
Same with Apple Mac. Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing. These are tools fit for the job.
All the hate is is jealousy. They can’t afford or can but don’t want to dish out the money, they dish out hate on those that do.
Live and let live people. Be happy with what you got and be happy for others and their things.
I get why some people like throwing money at this company but all I see is plastic. Plastic knobs on plastic housings. For that price I expect machined metal components.
A company that can sell you a 'box' whilst claiming it is a revolutionary storage and transportation solution. Alongside a second mortgage to enable you to afford said box.
I DON'T HATE FESTOOL, I JUST DON'T SEE THE NEED IN SPENDING TO BUY THEM WHEN I CAN DO JUST AS GOOD JOB USEING MY CRAFESMAN, AND DEWALT, AND SOME OTHER CHEAPER TOOLS. THAT DO JUST AS GOOD OF A JOB... I'VE SEEN A LOT OF BEAUTIFUL WOOD WORKING THAT A FESTOOL WAS NEVER USED ON SO YOU GO AHEAD AND SPEND THAT MONEY ON YOUR FESTOOL AND ENJOY IT AND I'LL JUST KEEP ON USEING MY SUFF... IN FACK I'M WILLING TO BET YOU THAT IF WE BUILT THE SAME PROJECT YOU USEING YOUR FESTOOL AND ME USEING MY TOOLS THEY WOULD BE THE SAME...
I just purchased the dual battery operated sliding table saw, expensive yes, but site portable and angle cuts can be adjusted to the tenth of a mm. If I want to do 1 or 2 cuts I can attach the dust bag and dust is minimal. For me as a contracted carpenter and joiner it has been absolutely worth the expense.
I have nothing against festool. For me there’s just too many other great options for a lower price. I do get irritated when someone is asked “what is your favorite tool”. Answer? Instead of mentioning the tool they seem to have to mention the brand name. That’s why I call them bragging rights tools. I guess bottom line: people want what they want. It’s just that simple. Some folks get by with what they have and some folks want designer tools. Doesn’t make anyone a bad person.
Green with envy is about all it is with me. I know Festool is worth the price....my wallet just doesn't like the price.
Whats really annoying is when people cant stop talking about their tools. Obviously youtube is a big sales event. This video too. Its about how great those tools are and they want to make people feel like they have to buy that. Because it makes everything so much easier. Also its annoying that people tell me festool sandpaper is so great. They dont make sanding paper. Its just rebranded and any good brand will do just as well.
Its surprising how many videos deal with tools and how few deal with skills, aesthetics, making comfortable furniture, and so on. Its sales guys. All of this is just sales blabla.
Soooo, you're a hater.
Sadly the opinion of someone who's videos are full of festool affiliate links is worth nothing. Maybe people are fed up with all the tool "reviews" that are nothing but shilling. Just like this video is. Nobody cares about the tools you used. People care about the work. There's no other reason to keep talking about tool brands than selling stuff to people and making a profit through Amazon affiliate links. I don't hate festool. I could care less about tool brands. I hate those shills on TH-cam who provide no information.
Sooooo you are a hater. Got it.
More brand guides like this would be amazing. Thanks for the awesome content as always 👍A breakdown on Makita, Bosch, Fein would be fantastic
Thanks for the insight into a tool company. While Festool is not for me at my skill level and budget, that does not change the fact that it is a well made, well backed, long lasting tool. This video is not a 'commercial" for Festool, it is someone putting information and opinion out for others to see/hear. Maybe someday I will be able to afford high end tools and I will proudly walk into the store, look over and try Festool. Until then I will walk into my "Big Box Store" and just as proudly checkout and purchase the tools that I do. Stop with the hater crap and just be happy that these folk that we watch on youtube have been blessed to be able to get these tools and share with us the thoughts on them. Thanks Matt, keep up thee good work!!!
I own some Festool machines (router, jigsaw, tracksaw). Just today I replaced my ATF 55 FB/1 track saw after 24 years flawless working. But nothing last forever. Of course I bought a Festool again (TS 55 FEBQ plus). All the 24 year old accessories like the rail guides can still be used. And my newer guide rails work together with the old ones. The new systainer can be stacked with the old systainers. I think Festool machines are worth the money.
The worst part about Festool is that TH-cam woodworkers don’t stop talking about them.
My dad and I watched The New Yankee Workshop all the time when I was growing up. The focus of the program was building projects and, more importantly, inspiring woodworkers by showing Norm’s love of the craft.
TH-cam woodworkers used to operate under this same model until a few years ago, when corporate sponsorships turned the most interesting and instructive video channels into long-format infomercials.
Festool might be the default choice for “pros,” but you’re missing the point about the supposed “haters.” (FYI, this term is used to describe people who you believe are jealous of what you have; it’s not a good look.)
The point is that Festool is prohibitively expensive for the average person. So messaging around expensive tools as being made for those who want to woodwork for money only makes the craft more elitist.
For real, brother. You’re better than all this wanton product hawking.
No orbital sander is worth over 300
festool sander is worth i promise
@@djstuc i only had the corded dewalt and it was a bad sander , the vibration and dust colection was bad. and it has no break and it spins 20 sec after turn off.
@@djstuc I have the cordless 20v dewalt and a Rotex 125. They are not even close. The dewalt does not have good dust extraction. Not even close. Find a Rockler or Woodcraft and spend some time with one.
The source of their battery packs is China. Understandable because of the geo-political issues surrounding Lithium availability, but if you're going to make the case that Festool "treats their employees like family," then please address the treatment of the Chinese employees who make their batteries. Since their new focus seems to be on cordless tools, this is obviously a major part of their enterprise. I know not all manufacturing in China is child/slave labor, so I'd like to think they source from "one of the good ones."
Added to state: I own several Festool products, and their 10.8v batteries were made in Poland.