dude😭 what do you mean disappointing if true. We have a younger sister of messmee who also has a vision of flame, who uses marikas SECRET incantation, and literally is a kindling maiden who uses the flame of ruin to burn the erdtree and herself. Of course she’s the sister
I don't think that Melina potentially being Messmer's younger sister conflicts with the idea of her being The Gloam-Eyed Queen, though. She, like Messmer, may have had her own special flame: Messmer wirh his dark, serpentine flame, and Melina with her black, god-slaying flame. I believe Melina did what Marika was afraid Messmer might do: challenge Marika's rule through the use of a dark god killing flame. When that happened, Marika took the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring, imbued it inside of Maliketh, and had Maliketh kill Melina. Melina dies, and Marika has her name stricken from the histories of the Lands Between, covering up the identity of the Gloam-Eyed Queen in the process as she probably didn't want it to be known that one of her own children tried to usurp her. That's my theory anyway. But basically, I think Melina can still be Messmer's sister AND the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
Yeah, Melina may have been an Empyrean as well and like most of them she had "another self", another personality different from her but with the same ideals, this one being the Gloam Eyed Queen.
I don't think melina is the GEQ, i think she has the GEQ's essence imprisoned inside her similar to messmer and the serpent sealed in his eye, rykard and his serpent, the soreseal descriptions, and more. I think she's cursed to have to handle that essence inside her, not that she literally was her.
I've only recently heard theories about Melina being the gloam eyed queen but- how does that make sense? The first elden lord would have needed a God, it wasn't marika- and the "Queen" moniker (Queen Marika) seems reserved for the god. I guess I had assumed that the gloam eyed queen was the god of the hornsent, and that marikas betrayal (potentially after her rise to sainthood) was specifically to the Queen.
Marika was already a God when maliketh defeated gloam eyed queen then Marika removed destined death fron the elden ring so gloam queen could not have been the God of the hornsent. The gloam eyed queen was a candidate to be the next God of the age though.
What we do know is that Messmer was not simply shoe-horned into the DLC. The entire basis for the DLC is existing literature that George R.R. Martin initially co-wrote with Miyazaki. So, Shadow of the Erdtree was largely original lore to begin with. I think that's awesome.
About mesmer father, i think that is godfrey, one piece of lore that people seem to forget, radagon hair is hinted to be a curse place on him by the giants, radagon himself despised his redhair, as i assume radagon is a part of marika like St Trina is Miquella's, i wonder if at the time Marika was cursed by the giants gain redhair because of this at the time she birth Mesmer and Melina both who are related to the fire giants fire, maybe them Marika split radagon off to rid herself of the curse,
The whole jar punishment kind of explains the practice of grafting. The inside of the jars are essentially carved up body parts, and the numen body in there oftentimes absorbs the rest into their own mass just like how Godrick managed to assimilate multiple arms, a whole troll body, and a dragon's head into his own. The fact that Godrick and Godefroy (but rly only Godrick since Godefroy's an afterthought lets be real) can even do that is testament to his Numen blood, which is very thin, that he inherited from Marika or one of her descendants at some point in his ancestry.
I recently heard a theory that when you return from the erdtree and revive you have a part of marika inside you. Explains how seemingly anyone can be grafted in the lands between, everyone could be part shaman.
I feel like most all of her children were ‘tainted’ or a vessel of an outer power / god / etc (Mesmer and the snake entity same as the one at volcano manor, Melina and the Gloam eyes queen / death bird flame, the hornsent in Mohg and Morgott, Rani and the full moon/stars, Melania and the god of rot, etc. etc.). The shaman were noted as being well suited for jars since they bonded well with other entities, I think maybe they had an affinity for bonding with outer gods - thus the bonds being most severe in the children that are from Merica and Radagon. I think Godwin was one of the few (that and maybe Radahn) of her kids that actually embodied the golden order / Elden beast and thus her horror having him killed; no matter her power she could not control the world as she saw fit and thus threw in the towel, so to speak. Also finding out the greater will has abandoned the lands between well before we ever enter - it’s fitting. Merica’s entire golden order is a facade, a fading order of waning power and other entities are chipping away into it as it deteriorates.
@@AmbiguousAbsolute fair tho is Ranni a Demi god? I kinda assumed maybe Radagon fathered her before he melded with Merika otherwise if she was a Demi god (and only merika can have them) then everyone would know Marika = Radagon
I was telling my friend about Messmer lore and she told me about a yoga concept called Kundalini, and I definitely think Messmers lore took some inspiration from it. Basically it’s the yoga idea that a snake is coiled up within you and can be released, and used to open the third eye, which could be referenced by all the eye stuff with Messmer.
maybe there were 2 crusades? - the first crusade was lead and won by marika and radagon, result in a lot of hornsent casualties but no genocide. marika became a god, made a deal with the hornsent where marika will leave hornsent, but in turn hornsent must stop the jar ritual of shaman village. marika left and created the erdtree and her own civilization. -the second crusade was lead and won by messmer, ordered by marika. might be triggered after marika found out the hornsent secretly still doing the jar ritual and everyone in the shaman village are dead. result in total genocide of hornsent, marika visited the village for the last time. hide the land of shadow from the rest of the lands between, created the law in lands between where crucibles horn are now considered blasphemy. maybe the 2nd crusade changed marika, from a loving god to an unforgiving one. maybe she regretted showing compassion to hornsent in the 1st crusade. maybe this is also why she left messmer, and tell her children they must achieve something otherwise she will turn on them or smth.
what about the statues in enir ilim，two person were wound by a white snake，that must have something to do with the birth of messmer. and the shed skin of a white snake was found near by the place you found the o mother gesture，do you have any thought on that
See it’s throwing me off with the red hair and inheritance of flame or visions of it at least. Because if Messmer and Melina are first born you would assume Radagon is their father based on the traits they inherited, but then she gets with Godfrey after the fact and then gets back with Radagon again? I almost wonder if Radagon got left in the land of shadow for a long time before somehow finding a way to TLB. I would assume, since Miquella is retracing her steps in the shadow, that she also had to abandon her other half like Miquella did. So maybe that explains it? Maybe Radagon was studying a way to reunify with Marika at Raya Lucaria? Idek it’s a stretch but I just don’t see why her ascension ritual would differ from Miquella’s.
@@tuckddd9 A lot of people mention it being odd that radagon and marika would get together, ditch, then get back again, then ditch again. But really, we can see through the story (and its inspiration from ancient greek/roman myths) that these gods are fickle. They don't make up their mind. Their emotions guide them on a whim no matter what, because they believe themselves to always be right. They're demigods and gods after all, how can their choices be wrong? Its with this grandiose ego that these gods change on a dime.
To make your theory with the gloameyed queen to work. Marika could have had a 2nd personality as the gloam eyed queen. That she used originally to be come a god. Then had it sealed away by maliketh. Hence why melina has a tie to the gloam eyed queen. Its all apart of marika and her wish of death on others. Using the god skins to help tear down the old god, that allowed her become the current one. However the timeline is iffy and she has radagon. Unless marikas gloam eyed queen was a pseudonym for her old hatred of the hornsent. She had the gloam eyed queen "die" by removing it from her.
Hey, does anyone in chat know who the creature is that Marika grabs the rune strands from in the cutscene? Looks like she is grabbing it from an eye socket.
i thought the crusade happened before marika became a god, considering in the trailer the corpses of hornsents from the crusade are shown as marika ascended.
I overall really enjoyed the gameplay and aesthetics. The story had some really cool moments and then some really big misses imo. No GEQ, no godwyn, who are some of these bosses and where does this all tie in?
messmer wished to get rid of the flame? whys that? the only thing i can think of is because he hurt his sister with it. thats how she got so burned. and thats also how she can handle the other flame so well since she already got experience from her brother.
There is no item that says it or at least any item I could find but Miyazaki says messmer is Marika's son so he would be miquella and materials brother
What I get is this, both Marika and Miquella has some story of Berserk. It seemed just like Griffith need to lay with the noble to fund the band of Hawk, Marika need to seduce the old order and maybe their god/lord to fund her war in land between. Then she turned around and wage a crusade against the Land of Shadow. I think Messmer was conceived because of the seduction and she was still Radarika hence the red hair of Messmer. Also it’s a sign of Outer God posession like Malenia while gold is the color of Marika/ Golden Order without the meddling of outer God. Radagon had red hair eveb though we know Marika had golden. She gave up her golden hair for the seduction, then shed the red hair on the godhood ritual splitting into radagon
@@cool2314 yea but does radagon use thorns or do you mean it was the trash mob sorcerers that wiped the giants out? Either way doesn’t really make sense. I guess we’ll find out eventually
After completing the dlc when you go back to lands between and explore certain areas you will find messmer was always there we players never know him before this but he was there
Now that I think about it. It's definitely Melina since she would be Marika and Radagons daughter her curse is shes probably blind in the eye opposite of her gloam eye
Lol no Godfrey is the first elden lord not radagon the game beats over the head saying it. Plus radagon came into existence after the war of the giants when godfrey was banished. placidusax was not actually confirmed to be elden lord as his description says "it was said palcidusax was an elden lord" and the wording of the description is presented has hearsay not fact . Marika and the age of the erdtree is counted as separate ages from placidusax .
According to the lore, I have this theory about the order of the events of the game -Dragon Placidusax was the first elden lord and was subordinate to the greater will. -Bayle's betrayal caused an internal war to break out among the ancient dragons. -The weakness of the dragons causes the elden ring to abandon placidusax and the greater will choose another empiric. -Marika is at war with the hornsent because of what the hornsent did to her people. The gate of divinity is created by the hornsent with sacrifices. In a desire of the greater will to move to another faction, outside of the dragons. Marika is chosen as empiryan -Godfrey may have originally belonged to the hornsent or perhaps was some sort of crucible god to them, serosh may have been the inspiration for the dancing beasts. It would also explain that Mogh and Morgoth are born as omens -A marriage is celebrated between the hornsent and the shamans. Godfrey and Marika become consorts and Marika ascends to godhood -Marika and Godfrey undertake the war of the giants and the dragons, here the first events regarding Godwyn would happen. In the War against the giants Marika meets the fallen god of flame, or the snake god, a potential ally. Let's not forget that it all starts with Marika's hatred of the hornsent, and they hated the god of giants. -All this is what Seduction would be in front of the hornsent. -Marika, acquires from the flame the power or curse to transform into radagon, and in the Liurnian wars, she once again uses marriage to ally the houses as she did with the Hornsent, this time with the Caria, and she has Ranni Rykard and Radahn. -Realizing that he can somehow do without a consort to maintain power, since the flame gives him the power to be Radagon, he uses the door of divinity again this time to be the consort of the god of flame. Betraying the hornsent, and in a certain way the greater Will, at this moment Messmer would be born, whom he uses as a container for the flame, according to the ritual of the sacred scroll, so he is born with the curse of blasphemy, symbolized in the snake, initially sealed by Marika through the seal in her eye. -Once Messmer grows up, Marika has another son Melina, who is also the heir to the flame and the snake, to whom she entrusts her the custody of the rune of death, a Rune that she wanted to unlink from the Elden ring, turning she into the GEQ. Until then they were well received in the Erdtree, it could be said that they were even thought to be children of radagon who until then was considered someone different from Marika. -Godfrey is abandoned by grace, when Marika marries Radagon and he is exiled and forced to embark on an exodus with the tarnisheds, all this she does to avoid a violent conflict and justifiably alienate Godfrey. Once Godfrey leaves for the Badlands, Marika betrays the Hornsent. -When her first bastards grow up, Marika goes on a crusade against the crucible and the first opponents of her plan to establish the golden order. That's why they are bastards, that's why Marika is seen as a whore, because she had her children after Godfrey. -Marika destroys the hornsent with Melina and Messmer, Melina creates the Godskins, like snake-humans born through the gods fallen in the crusades. Mogh and Morgot are despised as is everything related to the Omen. The only one accepted by Marika is Godwyn. -Marika, for fear of the power given to her children, and for all the violence caused, veils and hides the land of shadows, which until that moment were part of the lands between, Farum Azula is left floating because the worship of the dragon is accepted in the lands between, for this reason is torn from the land of shadows, Bayle is left within the land of shadows, Messmer and Melina are separated, leaving one in the lands between, and the other in the land of shadows. -The serpents, the giants, and the crucible are established as blasphemy at this point to disassociate the golden order from all of this. Few cults are accepted, such as that of dragons, because Godwyn is one of Marika's most accepted children. -The golden order is definitively established. -The Greater Will, due to all the events that have occurred, designates as empiric the queen of the veiled eyes, Melina, who remained in the lands between. Melina perhaps had a fairly close connection with Messmer, and when Marika divided them, it caused Melina to be burned and disembodied. It could be speculated that Melina and Messmer somehow cannot be equally powerful without each other. Due to her brother's confinement and abandonment, Melina sets out on the path to being the new goddess, but finding herself weak, she is defeated by Maliketh and loses the death rune. Here she loses her memory and we find her just like the main game. -Messmer, because of her abandonment and use as a vessel for his mother, swears hatred towards her. -Marika/Radagon, they have Miquella and Malenia, both are born with curses. -Rickard internalizes the power of the snake in inspiration to Mesmer, with the remnants that were left on Mt Gelmir. -The relationship between Malenia Miquella Godwyn and Radahn evolves. Everything related to Santa Trina, the hieratic tree, the albinaurics, etc. would begin to develop. -Ranni's plan begins to be drawn up, as she lived to see all of Marika's blasphemy caused by the greater will, so she decides not to be part of her plans. -The Night of the Black Knives takes place. -Marika loses control when Godwyn is killed and destroys the elder ring. -War breaks out between demigods once the runes are distributed. Miquella looks for ways to kill Godwyn correctly and begins to plan her relationship with Radahn. -Marika entrusts Miquella, the purest son she has left, to become a goddess, and reveals to her how to do it, including the secrets of the shadow lands, without knowing that Miquella has her own intentions as well. -Grace is extended to the exiled tarnished to return to the lands between, in a last-ditch effort to restore or destroy the circle. -The events of the base game and dlc. The only thing that opposites about this is that Godwyn will not reveal himself against his mother, for having done what he did, maybe even Marika may have been part of the plot to murder him as she was the last loose end, but it would be very contradictory.
To complement the theory, the following can be clarified: Marika/Radagon are the parents of Messmer and Melina, not Godfrey, and Marika becomes a radagon when she meets the God of Flame, for this reason I believe that Marika and Messmer are children of Marika and the Fallen God of Flame. However, Marika has these children when she is already Godfrey's consort, so they are bastards. He could have used the divine gate twice, first with Godfrey to ally himself with the hornsent and a second time to betray them, with Radagon/Flame God as consort. I really think the events of the Shadowlands fall somewhere in between Godfrey and the Golden Order. Messmer is already older, when Marika betrays Hornsent, Marika somehow already knows Radagon, Messmer's army has a lot of inspiration from the giants, enemies of the Hornsent, Melina also knows how to burn the erdtree and knows that she can do it with a tool. . of the giants, so perhaps he lived during the battle against them. It is said that the red hair thing is a curse, but it is in the eyes of Marika who is now marked with red hair when she fused with Radagon after the giant war. Radagon is perhaps an avatar of the fallen god of giants, the fallen god of flames. Additionally, the giants in the game and the crucible transformation itself that can be obtained in the Dlc have the characteristic of looking like multiple bodies fused together, also the transformation has red hair, so it wouldn't be crazy to think that Radgon could fuse with Marika through giant magic. Melina also creates god skins, and her skins are made from the fusion of several gods, similar to the appearence of the giants. With all this, it would not be crazy to think that Messmer and Melina are sons of the god of fallen flame, who perhaps has red hair, and that Radagon is an Avatar of that god. I teorize that Godfrey is connected with hornsent because his sons with Marika were born as omens, and the dancing beasts are similar to serosh. Also many of the enemies of the dlc have the powers of Godfrey in his bossfight. I think that some other objects with Godfrey simbolism could exist in the game without mentioning him directly. Marika exiles him, she doesn't kill him, so this can be two things: Godfrey were a god with a similar power to Marika. Maybe the Hornsent god. And Matika exiles him to avoid a conflict with him for betray his people. Marika really loves Godfrey. It is also suspicious that Godfrey mysteriously lost grace after the war with the giants. Marika at that moment used the divine Gateway for sencond time, she could used the gate without opposition in enir ilim because she was an ally at that moment. It could also be said that Godfrey was perhaps the god at that time and Marika his consort not the goddess herself, so he uses the door of divinity to obtain the title he wants. But I prefer to lean more towards the fact that she uses the door a second time to govern herself with her order and exterminate her initial enemies, the hornsent, and for that she needs to remove Godfrey from the map, god for the hornsent and object of alliance for Marika. Sorry, English is not my native language
dude😭 what do you mean disappointing if true. We have a younger sister of messmee who also has a vision of flame, who uses marikas SECRET incantation, and literally is a kindling maiden who uses the flame of ruin to burn the erdtree and herself. Of course she’s the sister
I don't think that Melina potentially being Messmer's younger sister conflicts with the idea of her being The Gloam-Eyed Queen, though. She, like Messmer, may have had her own special flame: Messmer wirh his dark, serpentine flame, and Melina with her black, god-slaying flame. I believe Melina did what Marika was afraid Messmer might do: challenge Marika's rule through the use of a dark god killing flame. When that happened, Marika took the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring, imbued it inside of Maliketh, and had Maliketh kill Melina. Melina dies, and Marika has her name stricken from the histories of the Lands Between, covering up the identity of the Gloam-Eyed Queen in the process as she probably didn't want it to be known that one of her own children tried to usurp her.
That's my theory anyway. But basically, I think Melina can still be Messmer's sister AND the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
Yeah, Melina may have been an Empyrean as well and like most of them she had "another self", another personality different from her but with the same ideals, this one being the Gloam Eyed Queen.
I don't think melina is the GEQ, i think she has the GEQ's essence imprisoned inside her similar to messmer and the serpent sealed in his eye, rykard and his serpent, the soreseal descriptions, and more. I think she's cursed to have to handle that essence inside her, not that she literally was her.
I've only recently heard theories about Melina being the gloam eyed queen but- how does that make sense?
The first elden lord would have needed a God, it wasn't marika- and the "Queen" moniker (Queen Marika) seems reserved for the god. I guess I had assumed that the gloam eyed queen was the god of the hornsent, and that marikas betrayal (potentially after her rise to sainthood) was specifically to the Queen.
Marika was already a God when maliketh defeated gloam eyed queen then Marika removed destined death fron the elden ring so gloam queen could not have been the God of the hornsent. The gloam eyed queen was a candidate to be the next God of the age though.
@@agm5424Wow! GEQ is potentially Melina's other self. I love this theory!
I mean... We had the impaled fire giants, the impaled Dungeon, and didnt knew why was there... Now we know 😂
What we do know is that Messmer was not simply shoe-horned into the DLC. The entire basis for the DLC is existing literature that George R.R. Martin initially co-wrote with Miyazaki.
So, Shadow of the Erdtree was largely original lore to begin with. I think that's awesome.
It's interesting we see both Messmer, a serpent in human form, and Florissax, a dragon in human form, in the shadow realm
About mesmer father, i think that is godfrey, one piece of lore that people seem to forget, radagon hair is hinted to be a curse place on him by the giants, radagon himself despised his redhair, as i assume radagon is a part of marika like St Trina is Miquella's, i wonder if at the time Marika was cursed by the giants gain redhair because of this at the time she birth Mesmer and Melina both who are related to the fire giants fire, maybe them Marika split radagon off to rid herself of the curse,
I've been saying this too! I'm so glad someone else remembered and considered this!
The whole jar punishment kind of explains the practice of grafting. The inside of the jars are essentially carved up body parts, and the numen body in there oftentimes absorbs the rest into their own mass just like how Godrick managed to assimilate multiple arms, a whole troll body, and a dragon's head into his own. The fact that Godrick and Godefroy (but rly only Godrick since Godefroy's an afterthought lets be real) can even do that is testament to his Numen blood, which is very thin, that he inherited from Marika or one of her descendants at some point in his ancestry.
I recently heard a theory that when you return from the erdtree and revive you have a part of marika inside you. Explains how seemingly anyone can be grafted in the lands between, everyone could be part shaman.
And here I was just wondering if Serpent Hunt can be used on Messmer.
im pretty sure there have been mentions of the impaler or something in the base game lol dont remember where tho but more than once
Yeah same he was always there but we don't know about him
Mesmer is the coolest demigod. Love everything about him
I feel like most all of her children were ‘tainted’ or a vessel of an outer power / god / etc (Mesmer and the snake entity same as the one at volcano manor, Melina and the Gloam eyes queen / death bird flame, the hornsent in Mohg and Morgott, Rani and the full moon/stars, Melania and the god of rot, etc. etc.). The shaman were noted as being well suited for jars since they bonded well with other entities, I think maybe they had an affinity for bonding with outer gods - thus the bonds being most severe in the children that are from Merica and Radagon. I think Godwin was one of the few (that and maybe Radahn) of her kids that actually embodied the golden order / Elden beast and thus her horror having him killed; no matter her power she could not control the world as she saw fit and thus threw in the towel, so to speak. Also finding out the greater will has abandoned the lands between well before we ever enter - it’s fitting. Merica’s entire golden order is a facade, a fading order of waning power and other entities are chipping away into it as it deteriorates.
Damn, America's history is wild
@@MacA60230 😂👍
Ranni wasn't cursed, she specifically found the guidance of the full moon.
@@AmbiguousAbsolute fair tho is Ranni a Demi god? I kinda assumed maybe Radagon fathered her before he melded with Merika otherwise if she was a Demi god (and only merika can have them) then everyone would know Marika = Radagon
@@doug3318 of course she is, and an empyrean
That makes a lot of sense , just like how trina is a part of Miquella , we are a part of the Dung Eater and the Dung Eater is a part of us.
and everone will become Hornsent no more Omen horns excised !!
The lands of Shadow were once the vary center of the lands between but were removed following the crusades
Maybe by “base” serpent, they mean the primordial serpent. The serpent that all other serpents stem from
In the Portuguese client which is also translated directly from japanese it's called "Vile Serpent"
Base is also another word for vile
Putting people in pots made me think of the school of graven mages.
I was telling my friend about Messmer lore and she told me about a yoga concept called Kundalini, and I definitely think Messmers lore took some inspiration from it. Basically it’s the yoga idea that a snake is coiled up within you and can be released, and used to open the third eye, which could be referenced by all the eye stuff with Messmer.
maybe there were 2 crusades?
- the first crusade was lead and won by marika and radagon, result in a lot of hornsent casualties but no genocide. marika became a god, made a deal with the hornsent where marika will leave hornsent, but in turn hornsent must stop the jar ritual of shaman village. marika left and created the erdtree and her own civilization.
-the second crusade was lead and won by messmer, ordered by marika. might be triggered after marika found out the hornsent secretly still doing the jar ritual and everyone in the shaman village are dead. result in total genocide of hornsent, marika visited the village for the last time. hide the land of shadow from the rest of the lands between, created the law in lands between where crucibles horn are now considered blasphemy.
maybe the 2nd crusade changed marika, from a loving god to an unforgiving one. maybe she regretted showing compassion to hornsent in the 1st crusade. maybe this is also why she left messmer, and tell her children they must achieve something otherwise she will turn on them or smth.
"Conshooming" 😂
what about the statues in enir ilim，two person were wound by a white snake，that must have something to do with the birth of messmer.
and the shed skin of a white snake was found near by the place you found the o mother gesture，do you have any thought on that
Melina is likely both a child of Marika AND The Gloam Eyed Queen.
Really enjoyed this video 🙏🏼🔥
I say he is her first born
For sure
From Godfrey?
@@BrettFairchild red hair would tell us radagon, but who knows! FromSoft go crazy on lore
See it’s throwing me off with the red hair and inheritance of flame or visions of it at least. Because if Messmer and Melina are first born you would assume Radagon is their father based on the traits they inherited, but then she gets with Godfrey after the fact and then gets back with Radagon again? I almost wonder if Radagon got left in the land of shadow for a long time before somehow finding a way to TLB. I would assume, since Miquella is retracing her steps in the shadow, that she also had to abandon her other half like Miquella did. So maybe that explains it? Maybe Radagon was studying a way to reunify with Marika at Raya Lucaria? Idek it’s a stretch but I just don’t see why her ascension ritual would differ from Miquella’s.
@@tuckddd9 A lot of people mention it being odd that radagon and marika would get together, ditch, then get back again, then ditch again. But really, we can see through the story (and its inspiration from ancient greek/roman myths) that these gods are fickle. They don't make up their mind. Their emotions guide them on a whim no matter what, because they believe themselves to always be right. They're demigods and gods after all, how can their choices be wrong? Its with this grandiose ego that these gods change on a dime.
To make your theory with the gloameyed queen to work. Marika could have had a 2nd personality as the gloam eyed queen. That she used originally to be come a god. Then had it sealed away by maliketh. Hence why melina has a tie to the gloam eyed queen. Its all apart of marika and her wish of death on others. Using the god skins to help tear down the old god, that allowed her become the current one.
However the timeline is iffy and she has radagon. Unless marikas gloam eyed queen was a pseudonym for her old hatred of the hornsent. She had the gloam eyed queen "die" by removing it from her.
Hey, does anyone in chat know who the creature is that Marika grabs the rune strands from in the cutscene? Looks like she is grabbing it from an eye socket.
He is atleast the second oldest probably the oldest of Marikas children
i thought the crusade happened before marika became a god, considering in the trailer the corpses of hornsents from the crusade are shown as marika ascended.
Can we get next lore about mitra of frenzy flame
Perhaps just perhaps he was a…Wedlock child like Melina with Radagon
I overall really enjoyed the gameplay and aesthetics. The story had some really cool moments and then some really big misses imo. No GEQ, no godwyn, who are some of these bosses and where does this all tie in?
messmer wished to get rid of the flame? whys that? the only thing i can think of is because he hurt his sister with it. thats how she got so burned. and thats also how she can handle the other flame so well since she already got experience from her brother.
isn't it confirmed that messmer is the brother of malenia and miquella, i thought there was an iris that said he was related to them
There is no item that says it or at least any item I could find but Miyazaki says messmer is Marika's son so he would be miquella and materials brother
@@cool2314 Messmer armor implies the he is marikas son and on her wishes he led the crusade against the hornsent
that seal looks alot like a scar seal
What I get is this, both Marika and Miquella has some story of Berserk. It seemed just like Griffith need to lay with the noble to fund the band of Hawk, Marika need to seduce the old order and maybe their god/lord to fund her war in land between. Then she turned around and wage a crusade against the Land of Shadow. I think Messmer was conceived because of the seduction and she was still Radarika hence the red hair of Messmer. Also it’s a sign of Outer God posession like Malenia while gold is the color of Marika/ Golden Order without the meddling of outer God.
Radagon had red hair eveb though we know Marika had golden. She gave up her golden hair for the seduction, then shed the red hair on the godhood ritual splitting into radagon
i’m more sure that messmer is linked to the fell god
7:26 of course messmer fought the giants. Who else could have been the cause of all the impaled giants in the mountaintops of the giants ?
It's thorns implaing the giants that look nothing like spears plus there are enemies that use thorns to implar you in the mountain tops
@@cool2314 yea but does radagon use thorns or do you mean it was the trash mob sorcerers that wiped the giants out? Either way doesn’t really make sense. I guess we’ll find out eventually
After completing the dlc when you go back to lands between and explore certain areas you will find messmer was always there we players never know him before this but he was there
@@Sunny-kz1xv speaking of, there’s the catacombs of the impaler as well
Now that I think about it. It's definitely Melina since she would be Marika and Radagons daughter her curse is shes probably blind in the eye opposite of her gloam eye
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Radagon is the first elden lord, not placid
Lol no Godfrey is the first elden lord not radagon the game beats over the head saying it. Plus radagon came into existence after the war of the giants when godfrey was banished. placidusax was not actually confirmed to be elden lord as his description says "it was said palcidusax was an elden lord" and the wording of the description is presented has hearsay not fact . Marika and the age of the erdtree is counted as separate ages from placidusax .
Did you even play the game
According to the lore, I have this theory about the order of the events of the game
-Dragon Placidusax was the first elden lord and was subordinate to the greater will.
-Bayle's betrayal caused an internal war to break out among the ancient dragons. -The weakness of the dragons causes the elden ring to abandon placidusax and the greater will choose another empiric.
-Marika is at war with the hornsent because of what the hornsent did to her people. The gate of divinity is created by the hornsent with sacrifices. In a desire of the greater will to move to another faction, outside of the dragons. Marika is chosen as empiryan
-Godfrey may have originally belonged to the hornsent or perhaps was some sort of crucible god to them, serosh may have been the inspiration for the dancing beasts. It would also explain that Mogh and Morgoth are born as omens
-A marriage is celebrated between the hornsent and the shamans. Godfrey and Marika become consorts and Marika ascends to godhood
-Marika and Godfrey undertake the war of the giants and the dragons, here the first events regarding Godwyn would happen. In the War against the giants Marika meets the fallen god of flame, or the snake god, a potential ally. Let's not forget that it all starts with Marika's hatred of the hornsent, and they hated the god of giants.
-All this is what Seduction would be in front of the hornsent.
-Marika, acquires from the flame the power or curse to transform into radagon, and in the Liurnian wars, she once again uses marriage to ally the houses as she did with the Hornsent, this time with the Caria, and she has Ranni Rykard and Radahn.
-Realizing that he can somehow do without a consort to maintain power, since the flame gives him the power to be Radagon, he uses the door of divinity again this time to be the consort of the god of flame. Betraying the hornsent, and in a certain way the greater Will, at this moment Messmer would be born, whom he uses as a container for the flame, according to the ritual of the sacred scroll, so he is born with the curse of blasphemy, symbolized in the snake, initially sealed by Marika through the seal in her eye.
-Once Messmer grows up, Marika has another son Melina, who is also the heir to the flame and the snake, to whom she entrusts her the custody of the rune of death, a Rune that she wanted to unlink from the Elden ring, turning she into the GEQ. Until then they were well received in the Erdtree, it could be said that they were even thought to be children of radagon who until then was considered someone different from Marika.
-Godfrey is abandoned by grace, when Marika marries Radagon and he is exiled and forced to embark on an exodus with the tarnisheds, all this she does to avoid a violent conflict and justifiably alienate Godfrey. Once Godfrey leaves for the Badlands, Marika betrays the Hornsent.
-When her first bastards grow up, Marika goes on a crusade against the crucible and the first opponents of her plan to establish the golden order. That's why they are bastards, that's why Marika is seen as a whore, because she had her children after Godfrey.
-Marika destroys the hornsent with Melina and Messmer, Melina creates the Godskins, like snake-humans born through the gods fallen in the crusades. Mogh and Morgot are despised as is everything related to the Omen. The only one accepted by Marika is Godwyn.
-Marika, for fear of the power given to her children, and for all the violence caused, veils and hides the land of shadows, which until that moment were part of the lands between, Farum Azula is left floating because the worship of the dragon is accepted in the lands between, for this reason is torn from the land of shadows, Bayle is left within the land of shadows, Messmer and Melina are separated, leaving one in the lands between, and the other in the land of shadows.
-The serpents, the giants, and the crucible are established as blasphemy at this point to disassociate the golden order from all of this. Few cults are accepted, such as that of dragons, because Godwyn is one of Marika's most accepted children.
-The golden order is definitively established.
-The Greater Will, due to all the events that have occurred, designates as empiric the queen of the veiled eyes, Melina, who remained in the lands between. Melina perhaps had a fairly close connection with Messmer, and when Marika divided them, it caused Melina to be burned and disembodied. It could be speculated that Melina and Messmer somehow cannot be equally powerful without each other. Due to her brother's confinement and abandonment, Melina sets out on the path to being the new goddess, but finding herself weak, she is defeated by Maliketh and loses the death rune. Here she loses her memory and we find her just like the main game.
-Messmer, because of her abandonment and use as a vessel for his mother, swears hatred towards her.
-Marika/Radagon, they have Miquella and Malenia, both are born with curses.
-Rickard internalizes the power of the snake in inspiration to Mesmer, with the remnants that were left on Mt Gelmir.
-The relationship between Malenia Miquella Godwyn and Radahn evolves. Everything related to Santa Trina, the hieratic tree, the albinaurics, etc. would begin to develop.
-Ranni's plan begins to be drawn up, as she lived to see all of Marika's blasphemy caused by the greater will, so she decides not to be part of her plans.
-The Night of the Black Knives takes place.
-Marika loses control when Godwyn is killed and destroys the elder ring.
-War breaks out between demigods once the runes are distributed. Miquella looks for ways to kill Godwyn correctly and begins to plan her relationship with Radahn.
-Marika entrusts Miquella, the purest son she has left, to become a goddess, and reveals to her how to do it, including the secrets of the shadow lands, without knowing that Miquella has her own intentions as well.
-Grace is extended to the exiled tarnished to return to the lands between, in a last-ditch effort to restore or destroy the circle.
-The events of the base game and dlc.
The only thing that opposites about this is that Godwyn will not reveal himself against his mother, for having done what he did, maybe even Marika may have been part of the plot to murder him as she was the last loose end, but it would be very contradictory.
To complement the theory, the following can be clarified: Marika/Radagon are the parents of Messmer and Melina, not Godfrey, and Marika becomes a radagon when she meets the God of Flame, for this reason I believe that Marika and Messmer are children of Marika and the Fallen God of Flame. However, Marika has these children when she is already Godfrey's consort, so they are bastards. He could have used the divine gate twice, first with Godfrey to ally himself with the hornsent and a second time to betray them, with Radagon/Flame God as consort. I really think the events of the Shadowlands fall somewhere in between Godfrey and the Golden Order. Messmer is already older, when Marika betrays Hornsent, Marika somehow already knows Radagon, Messmer's army has a lot of inspiration from the giants, enemies of the Hornsent, Melina also knows how to burn the erdtree and knows that she can do it with a tool. . of the giants, so perhaps he lived during the battle against them. It is said that the red hair thing is a curse, but it is in the eyes of Marika who is now marked with red hair when she fused with Radagon after the giant war. Radagon is perhaps an avatar of the fallen god of giants, the fallen god of flames. Additionally, the giants in the game and the crucible transformation itself that can be obtained in the Dlc have the characteristic of looking like multiple bodies fused together, also the transformation has red hair, so it wouldn't be crazy to think that Radgon could fuse with Marika through giant magic. Melina also creates god skins, and her skins are made from the fusion of several gods, similar to the appearence of the giants. With all this, it would not be crazy to think that Messmer and Melina are sons of the god of fallen flame, who perhaps has red hair, and that Radagon is an Avatar of that god.
I teorize that Godfrey is connected with hornsent because his sons with Marika were born as omens, and the dancing beasts are similar to serosh. Also many of the enemies of the dlc have the powers of Godfrey in his bossfight. I think that some other objects with Godfrey simbolism could exist in the game without mentioning him directly. Marika exiles him, she doesn't kill him, so this can be two things:
Godfrey were a god with a similar power to Marika. Maybe the Hornsent god. And Matika exiles him to avoid a conflict with him for betray his people.
Marika really loves Godfrey.
It is also suspicious that Godfrey mysteriously lost grace after the war with the giants. Marika at that moment used the divine Gateway for sencond time, she could used the gate without opposition in enir ilim because she was an ally at that moment. It could also be said that Godfrey was perhaps the god at that time and Marika his consort not the goddess herself, so he uses the door of divinity to obtain the title he wants. But I prefer to lean more towards the fact that she uses the door a second time to govern herself with her order and exterminate her initial enemies, the hornsent, and for that she needs to remove Godfrey from the map, god for the hornsent and object of alliance for Marika. Sorry, English is not my native language
Bro is George R.R Martin
Only problem i see is it is stated that messmer and gaius were " elder brother " figures to radahn