Women in Scottish History: Flora MacDonald and Winnifred Maxwell
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มี.ค. 2021
- Flora MacDonald and Winnifred Maxwell are two heroic women in Scottish history. Saving Charles Edward Stuart made Flora a heroine of the 1745 Jacobite rebellion, but she wasn't alone. In 1715 Lady Winnifred Maxwell carried out a daring escape with her husband, 5th Earl of Nithsdale, for Flora to follow in 1745. Scottish history tour guide, Bruce Fummey compares Flora MacDonald and the Countess of Nithsdale.
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Scotland History Tours is here for people who want to learn about Scottish history and get ideas for Scottish history tours. I try to make videos which tell you tales from Scotland's past and give you information about key dates in Scottish history and historical places to visit in Scotland. Not all videos are tales from Scotland's history, some of them are about men from Scotland's past or women from Scotland's past. Basically the people who made Scotland. From April 2020 onward I've tried to give ideas for historic days out in Scotland. Essentially these are days out in Scotland for adults who are interested in historical places to visit in Scotland.
As a Scottish history tour guide people ask: Help me plan a Scottish holiday, or help me plan a Scottish vacation of your from the US. So I've tried to give a bit of history, but some places of interest in Scotland as well.
Find out about Flora MacDonald after this story at th-cam.com/video/Zcbm6XQqnoU/w-d-xo.html
Alternatively
The incredible story of the pioneering women of the Edinburgh 7 th-cam.com/video/ZOfdPn60gzw/w-d-xo.html
I couldn't possibly choose, that's like asking me to choose my favourite Scottish History Tour guide.
I know, I know. Sir, sir!
I can't choose. Flora is family and the other lady is one incrediblt faithful and loyal woman to her husband. I admire both of them.
Lady Maxwell I think she took more risks and she did it without having to be convinced to do it. That is not to take away from Flora, she too took big risks. Both women were amazing, brave and heroic.
They were both incredibly brave, but if I had to choose, Winifred: the escape she came up with was extremely clever, & she successfully got someone out of the goddamn Tower of London! I already admired her- I'd seen a sketch about the escape in Horrible Histories & she sounded like a total legend :)
A great time to respect our women!
True dat
What a great story! I've been trying for a long time to find any ancestors that were involved in the Jacobite cause, but most of my Scottish ancestors (that I've found so far) were from the low lands and I haven't been able find any info as to which side they plead allegiance too. But, you've just answered my prayers! I'm related to the Maxwell's, and Winifred and her husband William Maxwell, 5th Earl of Nithsdale, are both my cousin's! Thank you for this gift, it made my day! Absolutely love your channel!
Hi Bruce,
Another Interesting bit of history .I had not heard the story about Lady Maxwell
and her husband before .She was without doubt a very brave lady.
You're tellin' me
@@ScotlandHistoryTours I just found your channel (today, Jan 1 2022) but I’ve already watched several videos and subscribed. Not manny people discuss Lord Nithsdale or his wife on TH-cam.
I’m studying history in college to someday be a history teacher, but I’ve had difficulties researching my own family tree. I was wondering if you had any resources that might help, as I’m trying to connect the dots from the branch of the family in the colonies in North America to our Scottish ancestors (namely Sir Eustace Maxwell, John and Ahmed De Maccuswell, and Maccus De Norseman and his ancestors (I’ve head Maccus had connections with King David 1, and his father, Undewyn, had connections with MacBeth. And that they were descended from Ivar the Boneless. However, a lot of records from our family’s early days in America were lost to a fire at the Dutch Reform Church in Smithfield PA. We know that they had four sons and 3 daughters: Maria (b. 1742), likely died as a child, William (b.1745) killed in the Revolutionary War, Cornelius (b. 1748) Messenger to Continental Congress, Enoch (b. 1751) served in the NY Militia, Mary Van Horn ( Enoch’s twin sister), Anthony (b. 1754) served in Malcolm’s Regiment and was likely present at Trenton, and Eve (b. 1757). Their father was a Dr. Anthony Maxwell and their mother was Effjie (Eve) Vreeland (her family are cousins of the ancestors of Obama’s mother), while we know absolutely nothing about Anthony Maxwell, all we know is that his sons served in the continental army in some way or another (Cornelius eventually marrying Judith Dunn, the wife of a fallen Conrad.
I’d really appreciate it if you can help price our tree back to the early days of the clan, and in doing so, help tell the story of our fighting spirit, led by Robert Bruce’s good friend, Sir Eustace Maxwell in what would be the Medieval version of The Alamo.
Thank you.
Ooft it's tough. I think the pressure Lady Maxwell withstood is incredible, and I'll say she edges it.
Lady Winnie. Thanks for educating me.
Wonderful! I'm descended from Lady Winnifred and the Earl and there's lots here I didn't know.
How could one choose? They are both admirable!
I feel sorry for Flora as she really didn’t know what would happen as a result of her involvement. Lady Winnifred knew the risks and walked in with her eyes open.
Both were brave and interesting. I understand Scots women were valued in many more ways than other cultures. Thanks for shining a light on their contributions.
I'm not so sure about Scots women being more valued. Mary Queen of Scots is an example. In Pictish culture maybe though
Lady Maxwell was indeed VERY brave and VERY clever to organise such an escape. An escape which she obviously planned and carried out. This story, I have to acknowledge, I have never heard about before. Flora MacDonald's story obviously, is more "Romantic" with the connection to the Bonnie Prince Charlie. Both were brave women but Lady Maxwell stands, head and shoulders above her.
agreed
Two women who risked all both incredible ladies I find it hard to choose, but lady maxwell saved her husband and she risked her life to do so in planing his escape and to live the rest of her days in exile
Definitely Flora MacDonald! Of course, I am a bit biased in that I am so fascinated because I often visit her North Carolina home place and help care for the monument site there. I've followed her historical footprints in Scotland, visiting her grave, Monkstadt, Armadale and many other related sites on the Isle of Skye. In the Outer Hebrides, I traveled to her birthplace on South Uist and hiked to the Rossinish beach on Benbecula where Flora and the Prince set out for Skye. I also went to Fort Edward on the island of Nova Scotia where Flora spent a year with her husband, Allan, before returning to Scotland. Need I say more!
WOW! You are a Flora fan aren't you
WOW! Another great Scot history story, Lord Bruce! How Clever you are, to compare and contrast two SIMILAR FEMALE ESCAPE stories! What other historian would think of this?? Definitely worth a Coffee (already Done!)!! And my choice....most definitely Winnie!! She planned, executed, knowingly risked her life!! But Wait...if there are Two of these Escape stories...there must be more!! Find them and tell us the stories!! Thanks!!
YHank you for this!
As a descendant of one of the Earls of Nithsdale, I would have to say that Lady Winnifred Maxwell would have to be my choice for best Jacobite Rebellion heroine.
First time hearing about Lady Winifred. Both women very brave, I'll be damed if I can choose
Get off the fence man😉
@@ScotlandHistoryTours OK if I have to, lady Winifred the danger was always more immediate
It has to be Lady Maxwell. Fronting it out as she did, whilst Flora had a wee bit of help makes her VC material (if such an award had been availble). Superb video, as, indeed, they all are!
Thanks Alec
They were both very admirable. Flora seems to have acted out of what might be called a sense of decency to save the life of a man she had never met before, rather than out of Jacobite convictions. It was over in a matter of a weekend. Did Flora really think about the possible negative consequences to herself, except perhaps to her reputation? Lady Nithsdale, on the other hand, was fully committed both to the Jacobite cause and to saving her husband. She had help, but it was her drive, intelligence, fortitude, and daring which carried the plan through successfully. She seems to have been fully aware of the risks to herself if the plan failed. I think I'd have to say Lady Nithsdale is the greater heroine. Thank you for telling her story, and for thinking to make the comparison between the two ladies.
Flora MacDonald is my great-grandmother's name. She married a Maxwell. From Canada.
I think the Tower of London drag race escapade just tips it over Flora .
Must have taken some balls.
Nerves of steel
How could I choose between two such amazing women?
Another vote for Lady Winnie from me. Seriously brave.
Mounting up...
Winnie absolutely
Quite right
Can't imagine the times or the strength of these ladies!
I know, right?
Great story bruce. Two strong women.
Indeed they were
Oh, it IS a close one, especially after hearing you expound upon it. It's Winnie, but just by a whisker, and not a thick one at that. Thank you!
I truly can't choose because though it was different situations; they are both equally courageous to me. Ladies with more guts then most men I know. 😊🌹🦋❤️☮️🇺🇸
Remarkable women no doubt. I like Winnie a wee bit better. To go back, well that took some doing. Great story, wonderfully told.
Thank you sir. I would have been pooping my pants
It’s hard to choose because they were both very brave.
Flora aided a rake, who she had never met. Bonnie Prince Charlie should have gallantly died on the battle field at Culloden instead of scarpering off to a life of debauchery after being the leader of so many men who gave up their lives for his family's cause. He should have gone down with the ship. A stain on the great name of Stuart. Winifred Maxwell aided a brave man, her husband, who fought bravely for the Jacobite cause. So I vote for both Flora and Winifred equally. Great presentation as usual. Thank you.
Both great women but Winifred was more cunning and took more risks. Two great stories of great Scottish women who should be remembered for who and what they were HEROS, TRUE HEROS.
Ah, you've seen it
Both incredible woman
I know, right
Based on your excellent story telling of the events - I think maybe Winifred comes out on top - just !
While definitely a difficult choice to make I would have to go with Flora MacDonald, simply because she took those risks to help someone she didn't know personally. While what Lady Winifred did was incredibly daring, it was to save her husband whom she loved. Flora risked her life to help someone whom she may admire but whom she did not have a previous relationship, and didn't know.
I love Flora, but based on this masterfully told story I have to go with Winifred. question: where are you in this video? It's beautiful.
I HAD heard of both Flora MacDonald and Lady Maxwell. Flora MacDonald's story is told all over Scotland. Lady Maxwell's brave exploits are a feature of a visit to the Tower of London. Both were brave, quick thinking ladies. I'm going to give the edge to Lady Maxwell because she had to come up with the plan and had to spend hours carrying out the deception even after springing her husband from the Tower.
I just discovered today that I am descended from Clan Macdonald of Sleat. 👍
Winnie just cos of her cool name! 🤣😜🏴❤️
Flora McDonald led a very interesting life, I have visited her grave whilst on holiday in the Isle of Skye, she was a remarkable woman!
I'd say that the rosette goes to Mrs Mills, who risked her life for her friend's husband.
Now that is a good point.... but not an option you were given
@@ScotlandHistoryTours :D :D :D Hey, if we stuck with the options we were given, we'd still be tilling the fields for our feudal lords rather than... oh, that's disappointing. :(
I could not make a choice both very brave women
I think Winnie
I'll be honest, I think she's kind of my favourite too
Go Team Maxwell!!
Maxwell for me
There you go
Both such brave amazing women and incredible in their own right
Winnie takes the ribbon!!!
Hand salute to both.
Flora MacDonald!😍
Both events - of Flora MacDonald saving Charles Edward Stuart and of Winnifred Maxwell saving her husband are _heroic_ stories.
In Flora's case, the story may tell something about the popularity of 'Bonnie', despite his multiple Catholic middle names as *'Whig historiography'* still mocks him to this day.
I would say both were equally brave
Winnies got balls of steel
Whats the meaning on the hoodie as im planning on buying one bro
Winifred!
Both incredibly brave Women however Winnie took many more risks so she is my choice.
Aye, I think so too
Tough call. But if the carry on team were to have covered the subject. Maxwell
😆Aye, right enough
Winnifred Maxwell, no contest
I'm stuck. They're both incredibly strong and courageous. Flora took the role history handed her with calm and decency. Winifred knew what she was doing beforehand. I have to go with Flora.
Let's put it this way; if it looked like the ba' was on the slates, my life was on the line and my wife was my only hope of salvation, I'd prefer to be married to Winnie.
P.S. I initially misread her name as Winifred Atwell, the legendary American popular piano player, so it was perfectly appropriate that her accomplice should have been called Mrs. Mills! 😃
Flora was from a Presbyterian family and educated in Edinburgh. When her mother's first husband died (McDonald of Sleet I think) her second husband kidnaped her!!
Both these ladies, balls of steel. Then again in my experience the largest pairs come on those born without them.
😂
Women have much bigger balls than us men. The only difference is, they wear them on their chests instead of between their legs.
To me it has to be flora she loved her husband ❤
I choose the one who didn’t later become a Loyalist in America 😢
😂😂😂
Winni
Lord Nithsdale's escape sounds as if it had Upper Class wink and nod collusion. King himself might have been involved. But to avoid accusations of Jacobite sympathies they allowed his wife to take the credit.
Not sure I agree that a tacksman was a sergeant major. They were often younger brothers of the clan chief. My tacksman ancestors were.
IT's OK. You don't have to agree
Winnie,by a short head.
I Flourish Again
Winnifred definitely has the better story and showed greater courage. Look at it this way. Should Flora's plan gone off without a hitch, in theory, she'd have seen neither hide nor hair of any Redcoats.
But Winnifred, she went knowing that she was going to go and have to spend hours engaging in heavy subterfuge with the odds stacked against her and exile waiting at the other end. She had roughly a 2/3rds chance of getting herself executed! Outcome 1. Her and her husband are caught and sent to the headsman. Option 2. Her husband makes it away and she gets caught, sending her to the Headsman. Option 3. She gets away with it, they both live in exile.
And you know she had to have it planned out ahead of time. Her going to the King was just a last ditch attempt to avoid having to do it the hard way. There's no way she came up with the plan, worked out a safe house, got support from the Venetian ambassador, AFTER the King told her no. She had that all set up beforehand. If the King said yes, lucky day, lets off to Scotland. If he said no, Operation Breakout is a go.
Where have you been all my life
In Bonnie Scotland😎
Well Maxwell is family so I would have to say her.
Flora! (Im a McDonald!) :-)
Obviously Winnifred Maxwell would be my favorite.
😜
@@ScotlandHistoryToursI love your channel man. I wish I had found you sooner.
Can you tell the story of what happened between the chiefs of clan Maxwell and Clan Johnstone?
Dryffe Sands?
@@ScotlandHistoryTours yes, and how they ended up killing each other. A similar fate that befell James Douglas as well.
Send me a ticket I my name is Nicole Ellen Irvin send me a ticket !?!!!!!!!!
Ciamar a thaghas aon? Chan e farpais a th ’ann, a bheil? A bharrachd air, mar a tha fios agad, tha roghainn teaghlaich agam. Nach sabaid cothromach! Taing airson sgeulachd eile air innse gu math.
Lady Maxwell, her story is better, but being a descendant I’m biased….👍🏼🤣🏴
Us direct descendants of William &!winifred Maxwell are Rangers supporters 😂
It’s clearly Winefred.
I know I’m biased, given my surname. Flora’s story sounds like it’d make for a great movie, as would Lady Nithsdale.
Freddie Mercury in drag ... OMG!
Were the Fummeys out in the 45? How no? Being in darkest Africa is no excuse.
I vote McDonald
Ah, I just sent a link and now I realise you've watched it already. Apologies
Without doubt Both women had some serious cahoonahs. However, if pressed on the on who is the greatest heroin, Winny or Flora, my choice is..........Katie Price.
Flora MacDonald
Open boat at night with a fugitive in drag. Don't fancy it masel
@@ScotlandHistoryTours sounds like a average Scottish stag night.
She had to be black had to be BBC will sort it