Episode Thirty-Six: Sorority Tok | Violating Community Guidelines
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Rushing. Active. Legacy. Recruitment. Out of context, all these terms sound like some sort of sporting knowledge, but in fact, they're part of the absolutely wild world of American college sororities. Brittany and Sarah talk about Sarah's experience in a sorority, and the craze of rushing hitting TikTok right now.
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Sarah here,
I’m reading all your comments and I’d like to sincerely apologize.
My privilege and personal experience completely overshadowed the objective truth that Greek life is incredibly toxic. Sororities have a long history of racism, homophobia, fatphobia, and a dangerous overall culture. I’m very sorry about how little I spoke on these issues, how dismissive I was, and how much I’ve let you all down.
And you all are right, today I would not have the same Greek life experience.
Sororities and fraternities are cultish, they are highly judgmental, and being rejected from them hurts *for whatever reason*. I am deeply sorry for my continuous bad takes on this weeks episode. In the future, I will be better.
Thank you so much sarah! Your accountability is so powerful!
Sarah you are a good person, and I don't believe you meant anything bad by it or had any malicious intentions. Thank you for this message
thank you for acknowledging the issue, i’m rlly glad we got to hear from you on this.
comment got deleted after calling Sarah out 🤷 guess someone can't handle the criticism.
@@apatouros7572 ive seen some of your comments and no your just being rude. There are plenty of comments calling her out and sticking around. I made one myself. Your comments ive seen are just making assumptions and projecting your obvious distaste for sarah. We love sarah.
i applaud brittany’s de-escalation abilities in this episode
the way i RAN to the comment section to find this exact statement
it’s so impressive
She really is our emotionally intelligent queen
Brittany Broski >>>> FBI agents that have trained in de-escalation for twenty years
She's really super sweet even when she clearly doesn't like the convo
Lol God love Brittany, half way through she stopped questioning Sarah & just kept saying "that's wild" 🥴
Yeah you could tell she completely shut down in an effort to de-escalate
DUDE MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY.
@@thaliap3125 damn that spoke to me.
Idk this episode felt very biased, like I feel Brittany couldn’t disagree or call out the bad of sororities without Sarah seeming to take it personally. Also justifying vetting girls when most of the time it’s just insane judgment based on income, race or over stupid shit that would make someone different.
Yeah she kept saying 'I vet my friends, you don't let just anyone be friends with you'. Yeah but if you're actively not being friends with poor people, LGBT+ people, non white people, people who's mom's aren't friends with your mom etc then you would be very elitist and people wouldn't like you very much
@@calilnalan Those answers were strangely robotic and defensive like she had rehearsed them or been told them repeatedly. Plus--you don't vet your friends by giving them an official tryout or some weird shit. You give people a chance to see if you click, but it isn't a huge let down if you don't become friends, and you don't make the friends you choose pay dues to stay in your life. Like wtf is she even talking about?
Yes this was how I felt when Sarah said “you would vet your friends, you wouldn’t just allow 400 people to become your friends” but like would you be judging these people based purely on their outward appearance and status?? Hopefully not, so it’s not the same at all lol
Brittany skeptically saying “sureeee” throughout this entire episode with those shades is the mood lol.
DEADASS HAHAHAHA
When you're best friend is saying weird shit it's a great de-escalation device
Cringed a little when Brittany brought up how hurtful it can feel to be rejected from an organisation you really want to join and Sarah likened it to vetting potential friends. She knows damn well that some of these sororities will reject girls solely based on physical appearance and for other reasons that are vanity-based. Idk about anyone else but I’m not vetting my mates based on how good they’ll look next to me.
That parttttt 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
yess and saying "what if 400 people wanted to be your friend" girl I do not have FOUR friends
This part really turned me off 😮💨
Exactly! Literally all other clubs and organizations there is no rush or requirements to joining except maybe gpa and that’s just the strict academic ones…..
I was so confused about her justification of the vetting process.
especially because sarah comes from a chapter literally known for vetting based on looks and money lmao
I don’t want to make Sarah feel jumped on, I know they were trying to defend the enjoyable and important parts they experienced and the bonds she made, but the selection process & blatant discrimination Brittany was talking about are vital to this convo. As a visibly disabled fat woman they would never even entertain the thought of letting me in. These organizations are literally structured for wealthy pretty girls to meet wealthy guys and make connections within business to keep capitalists “in the fam” so to speak. No hate to Sarah but I think the defensiveness deserves some introspection.
I mean yeah literally the whole ep I was thinking: "yes Sarah that's great, HOWEVER..." like I'm pretty damn visibly disabled, there is NO WAY I would've been considered for a sorority if I tried to rush for one! I can just imagine the mental toll it would've taken to even try honestly. And for Sarah to gloss over the very obvious "aesthetic" sororities go for while defending the selection as a "vetting process" was just plain cognitive dissonance. No hate to Sarah, but I'm just disappointed we didn't get a more critical view of sororities and Greek life as a whole.
You hit the nail on the head here; to me as someone not from the USA, the whole school pipeline but ESPECIALLY the USA's sorority culture is so OBVIOUSLY built to keep wealth and financial success within the families that had it historically. Sarah came SO CLOSE when they were talking about how the real value of these orgs (and college in general) are the connections you make and befriending the "right people". It's LITERALLY a direct pipeline from "hot daughter of conservative white military family" to "is married to or friends with the new gen of business people funding the elections". The gig is called nepotism!
I think it varies by location… I know for a fact a few sororities here have disabled and plus size women. I know because I’ve seen them. Maybe it’s a west coast thing to be a little more accepting of all types?
Love sweeping generalizations. Greek Life isn’t a monolith. Changes school by school. Changes even more if it’s national vs local.
@@KittenKat1313 not to sound shitty but just because a few exist doesn’t mean it isn’t a huge problem. They’re notable because they’re exceptions. As they were talking about in the pod, women of color join all the time and subsequently leave due to the racism they deal with, I’m willing to bet this type
of discrimination happens to other marginalized people too in these situations. It’s progress but the institution it upholds is still problematic as hell.
Sorry, non-American here, Sororities and Frats all seem like classist, fascist gangs for well-off individuals. I’ve never heard of such a wild concept. All the perks and charitable support in the world doesn’t wash that.
American here - that is what they are lol
And as a Greek woman I dislike the association to me and my culture! i don’t want this associated with my family’s culture
Sarah was steamrolling this whole topic. I think she should’ve taken a step back and speak on this from an unbiased pov. Brittany had a lot of good points that she couldn’t fully speak on cause I feel like Sarah kept getting defensive. The whole episode felt tense and weird.
Sarah literally can’t speak on this from an unbiased POV, they were in a sorority and enjoyed it so of course they’ll show a bias.
my friend actually lost his life to a hazing. people pissed on him when he was passed out in the basement, laugh at him, wrote “simp” on his back. he was dead and they laughed at him. i don’t support greek life at all. it only hurts people.
I'm so sorry for your loss. That is horrific.
@@Kerryok3 thank you. a lot of things get swept under the rug for frats and sororities. it’s disgusting and a weird elitist culture that doesn’t need exist
That is extremely heart breaking to read. I am so sorry your friend had to go through that and pass away at such a young age in a horrible manor. I wish you and his other loving friends the best.
I'm so sorry. The way Greek life enables people to act like this is untenable.
damn dude that’s horrible and I’m so sorry to hear that. I hope his family got some justice but I know it doesn’t change anything.
I feel like Brittany is kind of anti sorority but kindly tiptoeing around directly saying that to Sarah
It's so weirdddddd I feel like Brittany flourishes with other people on podcasts but is so like contained by Sarah
@@idab6864 so now you're pitting sarah and brittany against each other..? so cool of you dude!
Which is weird because Brittany doesn't see that women's orgs are just as exclusive as many sororities and have the same shady racist backgrounds even if they represent and support good causes. Definitely agree that she's not being as honest with her opinion around Sarah
@@hayley_g It's funny how people get so upset at strangers opinions. I've felt this way since I started watching the pod, it's totally ok of me to say that. Do you really think one person's comment is going to "pit them against each other"? That's so dramatic
@@idab6864 some opinions are just inappropriate to share online. that does not start any productive conversation nor is this the place to hold this conversation.
I feel like Sarah’s experience of being popular in their adolescence really shined through in this episode. As someone who was heavily bullied in my adolescence, sorority sounds like my nightmare!!!
They forgot they were a pretty blonde skinny white girl for most of their life and had privilege based on that up until recently.. it’s cringe to listen to.
@@hotsexyangel seriously tho, she was spray painted tan and bleach blonde. OF COURSE they loved her. Not to mention she was also super skinny during that time too. Super interesting to look back on...
@@hotsexyangel I’m glad this is being talked about because you’re so right.
@@hotsexyangel i don't think they forget at all, they mention how much they've changed since then quite frequently in podcasts. i dont think sarah should have to lie and say they had a bad time if they didn't, it was clearly a positive experience for them. being english with the only exposure to sororities/fraternities being movies and news articles, it completely disturbs me too. but with that in mind, im actually very glad brit and sarah had completely different experiences with this subject, it made it a lot more interesting hearing both the positives and the negatives. yeah, sarah kind of brushed off some of brittanys comments but i dont think they meant it maliciously, it just genuinely wasn't their experience.
@@MJ-ip8mq i think it’s important to remember they had an ED and were dealing with Alcoholism too. It wasn’t all sunshine and roses
this really shows the unfortunate difference in the way Brittney and Sarah were treated growing up. i thought this would be funny but i can’t even make it through this
this.
Yeah, I’m out, can’t finish this one.
38:40
the way sarah immediately deflects to frat hazing killing people when brittany mentioned racism in sororities was very disturbing. the whole episode sarah was so quick to call out the wrongdoings in frats but when it comes to their white girlies it is just “girls being mean”….sick.
PLEASE THIS IS SO IMPORTANT!!! I felt like I was in outer space. For her to be such an outspoken ally this was flooring. The deep south rrlly jumped out there.
this part is truly disgusting i’m really disappointed in Sarah she needs to be educated deeply
just because women arent raping other women doesnt mean the emotional abuse of sororities doesnt impact people. its misogynistic to not hold women accountable for their actions just because they are women. It feels like sarah is reciting things they were told while in the sorority like the prepared statements and rebuttals conservatives use.
Agreed, this is a really good point.
Exactly! And as a side note, I'm personally really concerned about what illegal things that one sorority girl has done that she confessed to Sarah! It's also very telling that that girl hadn't suffered any consequences (that we know of) at that time... yikes.
YES
100% !!!!!
I get what you’re saying definitely but it also doesn’t change that people do have wonderful experiences with sororities not to mention the amount of minority started and maintained sororities that help marginalized people connect and support each other. Weird to just discredit her personal opinions as something she was told to say.
Sororities still feel incredibly icky even after Sarah’s defense. Exclusive and cultish, Brittany said it perfectly.
I would say she had a very minority experience.
yea I think Sarah’s positive opinion was definitely impacted by the fact that they were probs blonde, not plus size, and cisgendered presenting when they rushed and I don’t think a lot of people who don’t fall into those categories have a similar experience
Also their experience was largely inspired by the fact they are white, pretty, and thin. Almost all of the POC I know who went through rush/bids (not talking about cultural organizations) had horrible experiences because of racism
It’s very strange to see Sarah defending Greek life…they need to keep into account they were presenting as straight, and blonde. Sarah’s also thin and Caucasian.
Exactly!!
I love y’all but this episode just reinforces why you can’t have an objective conversation about sororities with someone who was in one. I went to the university of Alabama, which is famous for just how vile and horrible it’s Greek life is - from deadly hazing, blatant racism, rampant SA, harassment/assault of former members who speak out, trying to rig actual local elections etc - and that’s without all of the classic elitism that’s inherent in any organization that requires such high monetary dues for membership. I think Sarah really needs to take a step back on this one and think about how being an affluent white person might be affecting their opinions.
I'm not from the US so have exclusively learned about this whole culture from the outside through media and lots of reading and documentaries about it.
I can see how they can be helpful to those that fit in and have the money and such but to me they will always feels icky and problematic and frankly also incredibly creepy.
If you look at pictures from them they really all look like copies of each other with slight differences. You can absolutely tell who they don't want there.
The other stuff you mentioned is of course also deeply problematic and I agree people who are in it or were in it and fit in will never be able to see it objective with all the nuances. They'll see the good that they experienced and will always have a hard time seing the other sides.
You put this very well, thank you!!!
Sarah’s defense feels like they views attacks on Sororities as attacks on women, instead of dissecting the inherent problems within them
They reverse it about frats, yet i feel like both have their flaws and we can’t gloss over them
yes! the entire time i was watching this, i felt like i just knew I wouldn’t be treated even remotely similar in a sorority like Sarah’s even if I did want to be in one.
I worked to join a sorority when I started college and I can confirm, they fucking suck
Lol if anything shows how culty Greek life is…. It’s Sarah’s relentless defence of it in the episode
YESSS
Facts
SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!
When i first showed up at college, i saw all these signs for a Greek convention with food. I was super excited because i was missing Greek food and i hadn't seen my Greek family in a while. I showed up expecting to get drunk on tsikoudia, gobble up all the dalmatas and tiropita, and instead i saw a bunch of drunk, white assholes calling themselves Greek. they don't speak any Greek, they aren't orthodox. they don't even eat lamb! i was pissed lol. its one of the few "fucking white people" moments i've had. i don't care that they are "appropriating" my culture. i care that they led me on about eating Greek food!
Also please do literally anything Greek at all. Drink Ouzo. eat some lamb. something lol
they kicked her out bc she didn’t have any money and she still defends them?? brainwashing
the way that brittany was trying to actively shed light on all of the racism, sexism, ableism, and general terrible discrimination within sororities (and greek life in general) and sarah was literally saying “yeah but…” made me so sad to listen to. it’s very easy to defend sorority life when sarah was the perfect picture of a sorority girl at the time. and to say that to a plus size person who could have never had the same experience just based on what they look like. ugh this was so disappointing
THIS and it kinda paints a bigger picture of what her actual stance on the topic of racisim is. maybe it's just a blind area for sarah but the way she wouldn't even recognise that it's a terrible issue and talk about it? i am from the uk and it just gives the same energy as "i know racisim is bad but it's not that bad here" glossing over the entire subject and getting on with their day
plus sarah is a afab presenting person who also is neurodivergent (i don’t know if she’s diagnosed) it’s surprising to me how she’s defending this when she knows how ableism & sexism affects the admission process
@@elliottsalibi unfortunately, afab people who mask well sometimes think all ND people could just mask if they tried hard enough (this is also ignoring how harmful masking is to autistic people like myself).
Sarah had a positive experience and she views sororities through the lens of what they could be instead of what they are. Sororities could be something good, but like a lot of things, the bad overtakes it and changes it for the worst.
She can still have fond memories of her own experience but also acknowledge that as a whole, the Greek life system has fundamental flaws and hurts a lot of people.
*they
@@siennariviere3215 Sarah goes by both she/they.
@@siennariviere3215 s2g y'all don't know how to read. Her bio on everything says "she/they."
Sarah still views herself as she once was and it’s been obvious
I was in a sorority in college in a small liberal arts college in PA and it was more of a positive experience because hazing was illegal and it was more values based and more focused on philanthropy. A lot of my sisters in my sorority are a part of the LGBT community and many have she/they pronouns. Also many sisters in my chapter are of different races. The southern sororities definitely would probably hate us though because we don’t fit their mold😂
Sarah trying to act like Greek life isn't toxic as fuck made my head spin lmao. That's some real cognitive dissonance.
cognitive dissonance is the perfect way to describe it
facts
It’s like she still wants to be accepted by the “cool kids” it’s so cringe I’ve noticed it in other episodes not just this one
@@user-np8yf8fj2w YES. LITERALLY. I’ve noticed this a lot too.
Maybe even stockholm syndrome honestly.
just as a black girl who grew up in the south; even though i feel like i really tried to fit into the beauty standard these sorority girls in my hometown set i always felt that greek life could never include me. and to be completely honest the girls i went to high school with who made me feel this way ended up being the ones joining these groups so i just feel like sarah’s take is something only a select group of like “acceptable” presenting minorities and white women could agree with
Sarah is talking about Sorority life like it's totally normal, while Brittany is bringing up valid points of how horrible and culty it really is
I don't think Sarah handles arguments very well. Could be some mental thing, but she seems to get so defensive about shit. Just relax, be open and humble and you won't come across as an asshole.
sarah is the last person i would expect to defend sororities lmaooo
Fr 😭 like I wasn’t expecting that
Y’all must have not been there for vine.
Sarah, your experience isn’t the end all be all experience for other people. For most of your life, you were a pretty, blonde, skinny, white girl (even if that’s not how you identify now) so of course your experience was good. You don’t get to sit on your high horse and say it’s not that bad and that men are worse. That’s not the experience that others have. And for you to blatantly say barely a few minutes into the podcast that you’re “gonna defend sororities hard” is unbelievably cringe, especially from you. You barely even let Brittany breathe in this episode. I know you’re just ignorant cuz you don’t see the other perspective but next time, close your mouth and open your ears. You need to do a better job of listening. You usually have compassion and a good understanding of others experiences but this seems to be your blind spot. Glad you had a great experience but do you think if you were POC or chubby or not conventionally attractive, you would’ve had the same experience?
Also, the comparison of paying for sororities being the equivalent of paying for private schooling is soooo dumb. I’m not even gonna waste my energy dissecting it cuz it should be common sense.
Sarah, you’re not in school anymore. Stop defending sororities like they would gaf about you still. I mean, do you think they would treat you the same now as a non-binary person the way they treated you back then?
i wish i could like this comment a million times. you said it all so well
Deleting my comment bc this sums it up way better
@@Oreomeat omg same lol, this comment needs all the likes
Perioddd
Thank you thank you so well said.
brittany bringing up valid points as to why greek life is inherently racist/homophobic/dangerous overall and sarah completely glazing over it made this episode painful to watch
Sarah is clearly biased which is upsetting. I feel like they shouldn’t have done this subject due to that.
Love these girls both so much but it was tough to listen to her make excuses for them.
The way she justified the wired thing was a little upsetting
yup, she like "welp, not my problem". she could've brought awareness but nope.
It’s sad, especially when there has been handful of deaths surrounding sororities, mostly from hazing going wrong 😔
No one is surprised that a blonde, white girl in the south had a good time in her sorority. I was really hoping for a dynamic conversation about the underbelly of sororities, but I'm only 30 mins in and don't think I can sit through another half hour of Sarah defending her time in college. I don't mind that Brittany and Sarah disagree on things, and would like to see more of that but it definitely felt like Sarah could not be objective about this conversation at all. Brittany could barely get her points across without Sarah needing to justify herself, or deflect about how fraternities are inherently worse. This episode definitely didn't sit well with me.
Yup, this is episode was pretty hard to watch. Of course you’re experience was good, you were presenting as a straight cis white girl at the time
We're just really downplaying the "snootyness" and "harsh" ness of it all. Like, hearing all of these you wouldn't be friends with just anyone and a musical wouldn't bring on everyone, as if we're talking about skill and vibes as opposed to body type and race. Strange amounts of defense compared to everything else being said.
Not that their experience isn't valid or all y'all's, just not the norm or what's been represented to most people seems like
Literally my exact same thought.
yeah the “musical” reference didn’t make sense to me. you have to be talented and good at what you do to get the role you want. sororities are not talent based.
Yeah, I understand why Sarah had a good experience. They are very beautiful , funny, white, straight-sized, and probably blonde during rush. They check all the boxes for a sorority and would be treated as such. As opposed to someone who doesn’t check those, who probably wouldn’t be greeted or treated as kindly
I went to a sorority up north and as a black women, I didn’t feel a lot of this. I think everyone’s experience is different and I think certain parts of Greek life are working to break down these old stereotypes
this episode was painful to watch. Sarah is so die hard greek life for why....? I don't think this is the topic to feel so passionately about with its present day racism, sexism, fat phobia etc. Poor Brittany couldn't make a damn joke about sororities without Sarah taking it as a personal attack..... You don't need to keep defending them...you're out of school...
I think she's insecure and afraid of people looking down on her for having been apart of a sorority so she doubles down and defends it from fear instead of y'know... moving on and speaking out about the horrid things that happen in them. Immaturity basically
Agreed
Yeah the whole “you judge people” part was rough with her defending them. That’s not true in the real world you’re gonna be interacting with ppl who don’t look like you,don’t have similar values are different races and religions, come from different social economic backgrounds. So the whole “vetting” is normal and you vet your friends isn’t the same.
Other clubs don’t have these crazy judging/vetting processes. So why is it okay for sororities?
And you will still make connections with all these people. It’s just not exclusive and gross like that. It’s an even playing field instead in these clubs/organizations vs frats/sororities.
@@spacecrusade Yeah Sarah is very defensive, it’s upsetting to watch. They can acknowledge the fun they had but still criticize it..
Sarah privilege check
I came into this thinking y’all were going to hilariously roast Greek life because honestly, it would be so easy to do and such a funny episode I think. I love you guys but this was so cringey and Sarah needs to check their privilege.
I never thought I'd unironically agree with this memeified phrase, but they really need to check their privilege.
I agree that they could have talked about the negatives longer, but it’s kind of nice to hear a positive experience. If the whole episode was just based on stereotypes I wouldn’t like that either. I’m not in a sorority, but from what I’ve seen from the ones at my school they aren’t like the stereotypical sororities. To be fair I don’t live in the South which is where the more intense sororities are. I think they could have balanced their different thoughts better, but still shouldn’t have just talked about the negatives of sororities
@@fakenamebunchonumbers It’s only memeified because it makes privileged people very uncomfortable lol.
As a black woman from the deep south-sarah this episode was very telling lmaooooo
Righhtttttttt
Right?!??! All I could think was "she would have called me a f@g to her sorority sisters, 100%."
FACTS!! she brushed past it everytime brittany brought it up!
:( it was upsetting when Brittany brought up how frats and sororities are based in racism and misogyny and Sarah completely brushed over it. Its always painful when Brittany and Sarah don't have the facts and stats for the touchy topics they're talking about, and I think this episode made it really clear. I'm disappointed, because it was a fantastic chance for them to attack the toxic, racist, elitist, capitalism machine that Greek life is.
The thing is, Brittany really was trying to say more, but Sarah kept interrupting and kind of invalidated her takes on it.
I feel like Brittany was really trying to get to this point, but Sarah kind of kept glossing over it and not wanting to talk about it, which is very frustrating.
@@Zha-ke Agreed, by the end of it I felt like we hardly heard from Brittany.
@@kieram.6186 Maybe because what she was saying kept being brushed over
@@user-np8yf8fj2w 100% agree, just stating that we did not get to hear a differing opinion. It was just Sarah and their viewpoint on what it was like to BE white, cis-presenting, and thin in a sorority. If I were Brittany I wouldn’t have wanted to continue trying to speak if my points were being immediately dismissed as well.
I am SHOCKED at sarah’s defensiveness of sororities and how she kind of just shot Brittany down anytime Brittany tried to share her pov
I've encountered that exact same attitude from other people who had a good experience with their greek life in college. I think it's just a different value system. Like Sarah had terrible parents and talks about being depressed in high school and greek life provides you with a new family so even if at times it was an abusive family her value system is that its still absolutely worth it where a lot of us outsiders are seeing it as I wouldn't ever trust someone whose judging my body and hazing me to be a good friend later so this must be evil. I've talked it through with those friends and been like but your hazing was literally psychological torture but they argue it was to make the pledges bond but isn't that just forced trauma bonding? Can't you just make friends in a normal positive way? I'll never get it and I don't think they are a healthy experience.
I love sarah, but at the end of the day it’s not that surprising that someone who was thin, white, cishet (closeted at the time, but you know) at the time of their experience would defend it so hard and fail to see the institutional flaws. It is very disappointing though. This episode was just a miss for me.
@@comiccar true!! I guess I should’ve said disappointed not shocked, I have a few friends in sororities and have never really been able to have an open conversation w them (I am open on my opinions but they don’t really care what I have to say) I had one friend in college who loved to complain to me ab her sisters and what stupid things she would get in trouble for, but then when I’d ask her why she still does it she’d just be like oh bc I love it! Like okkkkk 🤔🤔
@@amberrose8635 Sarah's family is rich. like, who are we kidding here?
I don't think she was defending it that hard. She agreed with what Brittany was saying on a lot of stuff. But she's got ADHD so she can get fixated on stuff.
*anyone says anything critical about sororities*
Sarah: Ok, but frats are predators.
Two things can be true at once. Frats can be predatory, problematic, etc. and sororities can also be elitist, racist, etc.
So true
And, as much as sororities can punish their members for drinking “in letters” or posting photos with alcohol, they absolutely participate and fuel that party culture. Many require their members to attend socials that are planned and run in conjunction with fraternities. Sororities enable and support fraternity culture. They’re complicit.
I think white Women really underestimate that their “bitchiness” can be so dangerous and even deadly. See: Emmett Till. I’d honestly rather anger a white man than hurt the feelings of a white woman. I don’t want to end up in a ditch somewhere. Sarah is very, very tone deaf in this instance.
@@hannahholloway7278 amazing point
Exactly. Thank you for this comment. I love Sarah a lot but I don’t think I can relate because majority of my trauma is due to groups of women..
Sarah: Sororities aren’t bad
Sarah: They made me take 9 shots of tequila and I woke up covered in leaves
RIGHT i remember how the girls at Sarah's sorority made them take so many shots and didnt even give them a hand when they were throwing up, i legitimately thought this ep was gonna be about questionable sorority experiences and a critique on them, legitimately surprised how hard they went in on defending sororities
The outcome of that story was as ideal as it could’ve been too. It could’ve ended so horrifically and the sorority/Greek culture would’ve been to blame.
Yeah, that was crazy
Cognitive dissonance maybe? Happens a lot with sorority and fraternity people
@@Hello.noel22 this!!! That could have ended up horribly
sarah fr heard britney talking about racism in sororities and said “well hazing kills ppl in frats 🙄 “ like just accept it’s toxic and move on sarah
yeah that part was real weird. brittany said something about a girl talking about her own experiences with racism and sarah went “isn’t it craaazyyy how hazing kills people but all people can say about sororities is that the girls were a little snooty??” like,,,, i love sarah but this one was a lot
Agreed. I think Sarah was unable to zoom out of the positive sorority experience she had (and therefore defend it) and let it cloud her direction way too much to speak on it objectively. But I also think we need to acknowledge that it's possible that her anxiety caused her to put up these defenses as well. That's not an excuse in my opinion, especially when they are literally making a talk show, but I'm just trying to extend some grace here. Sorry for restirring something two months old - just listening now LOL
@@mjf5142 yeah exactly
I am kinda dying at Brittany just being like "...riiiiiight...." so often during this episode, she's trying so hard but I know on the inside she's also so puzzled by the zero trace of irony coming from Sarah lmao as are the rest of us apparently. It's clearly a major blind spot from Sarah when almost everything else about their current personality/identity does not line up at ALL with being super gung ho pro-sorority.
Also the “sure..”s hahaha
Yes, I came to the comments after her "surrreee" response and was basically gonna leave this comment
I was super surprised to hear the lack of irony. I thought Sarah was wiser than this.... Greek life is a big, toxic popularity contest. End of story.
I would say this is a fatal flaw in their design of having Stanley do all of the research for the show & them reading it for the first time while filming the podcast. If Brittany and Sarah actually did their own research and planned ahead of time they would've realized they had big differences in opinions in regards to this topic and would've probably found a way to discuss it that wasn't so ineffective like this podcast was
@@idab6864 I think they've mentioned that they actually do read the whole script beforehand
not to be hella harsh but sarah would definitely have had a different experience if she was out during her college years. she really doesn't get how culty it is and I think she's a victim of this shit and she's been blinded and gaslit by her sorority.
I think the blinded and gaslit part is a good thing to mention because it doesn't excuse their sentiments while also giving a reason as to why they say the things they say.
The fact that I had to scroll so far to find a comment like this is ridiculous to me. If someone (Sarah) has only good experiences with something that is such a tight knit group they are going to defend it. It doesn’t help that rush makes them feel like they worked and earned a spot. Also these two are very obviously two white female mid-upper class individuals so they are talking about their experiences. It would be equally if not more uncomfortable of an episode for them to speak on experiences that aren’t their own. Sorority’s and fraternities ARE NOT ALL BAD especially at smaller schools in their current form, hazing laws and the dissolution of physical houses have ensured that. However that wasn’t the focus of this video at all and I understand that ignoring the ableism, racism, and classism that happens in frats and sororities.
definitely- or is she wasn't perceived as a conventionally attractive white woman
Anytime Brittany says anything bad about a sorority, Sarah doesn’t even try to discuss it and blows over anything Brittany says… what’s up with that
It’s like a false expert bias in psychology, she believes what she says is more important or that it is the actual truth, because she thinks her being in a sorority puts her in a higher position to talk about it
25 minutes in on Spotify and I NEEDED to come to this comment section to make sure others felt the same about Sarah’s lensed perspective
literally same
Same i was getting so frustrated listening to this episode. I was at work when i was listening and literally went “what the fuck” out loud.
Couldn’t even finish the episode.
YEP SAME. I was listening to it like wtffffff?
I’m 15 min and have liked too many comments, I don’t think I’ll finish this episode.
On the other hand, gotta give it to Brittany for how intelligent and well spoken she is. She stood her ground without getting into an argument with Sarah
This was incredibly painful to listen to, as a huge fan of both of you:( greek life is pretty much all systemic racism and classism. I respect that I won't always agree with the takes of my favs, but it was pretty cringe to hear Sarah stick up so hard for them. Love yall tho
I think Sarah forgot their privilege a bit on this one
This episode is uncomfortable, and the whole hearted defense of sororities without being able to discuss the real issues in the foundations of sororities is disappointing. Still love this podcast, there was just a clear inability to dive into the topic because of hard stops of correction at any statement of negativity. Felt almost like an argument in some cases, not saying they always have to agree, but usually there’s the ability to have a back and forth discussion not just the tip toeing around each wall being put up as we see here
very uncomfortable...... Sarah needs to have several seats.
yep. hardly any jokes either lol
@@kaitlynzuniga right? Seems like Britney wasn't allowed to make fun, criticize, of or make light of Greek life because this was essentially Sarah's long-awaited moment to tell people exactly how to fit in in Greek life and just how well she fit in--30 lbs., one hair color and an entire gender identity ago--mind you. No irony. No self awareness. Gave me the ick. Britney is usually so cool, calm, and funny. She seemed perplexed and uncomfy in this ep. Sad for her.
@@blubayou22 yep, it definitely felt like her reminiscing over the wonder years instead of making a commentary on how fucked up it is. like isn’t that the whole point of the show lmao
The last sentence here is spot on.
Really disappointed with Sarah’s takes on sororities and Greek life. It felt like Brittney couldn’t say her valid opinion without getting attacked. You could feel the tension in the episode
fr i had to keep pausing cause Sarah would get so defensive and oppressive towards Brittany’s opinions, which honestly is the opinion of the mass majority 💀
It's giving "I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at animal cruelty" lmfao
YES YES YES!!! Sarah is a great example of a white person who is not as much of an ally as they think they are!!! I think Brittany realized that by the middle of the podcast.
this is a perfect analogy
@@lauren-sz5ow "not as much of an ally as they think they are" is a strong take. The people that like Sarah and keep up with her know (as much as social media allows us) who they are and what they stand for. They clearly have a jaded opinion on sororities which could come from a lot of things. But they admitted they were wrong and would do better and if I were to believe a public apology from anyone on the internet, it would be Sarah or Brittany.
yeah sarah tense and frothing at the mouth to defend this shit was extremely weird this episode. at some point you have to admit that your opinion is VERY clouded by your (thankfully) positive experience. really weird to see them ignore what i think they know, which is that, sorry but all the criticisms are still valid. it’s not just people hating on women for no reason, it’s people criticising the culture of racism, elitism, fat-shaming… please open your eyes and look past your defensiveness man. it sounds like when people don’t believe their friends could be abusive just because THEY had a good experience with them.
It's not snootiness. It's elitist. I appreciate Sarah's experience and their perspective on it, but I feel like she very, very quickly brushed over any negative comments or aspects of sororities.
I’ll say this though, glad this was filmed in the studio and not on tour, because sitting in this crowd would’ve made every bone in my body hurt
YES i could not stop thinking about this, i would genuinely have to get up and leave
Yeah people woulda walked out I love them but this got hard to watch quick
@@kam731 i was checked out within 5 minutes and had to turn it off at the 8 minute mark. couldn’t even imagine getting through the whole episode
@@Addyournamehere ive been trying to finish this episode for two months lol can't seem to watch mote than 5 min at a time
Kind of a tone deaf episode. Paying for connections is inherently classist, and another great example of the inaccessibility of knowledge/education/academia. Vetting for friends on a personal level is not the same as perpetuating social hierarchies that are inherently racist and sexist. Paying to be in an exclusive club that is made specifically to be uninclusive only for people who can afford it/get in....it is a bad look. It doesn’t need to look this way. Americans just crave any sense of community because we have been deprived of it and Greek Life Exploits That to the point where people are getting hurt.
I don’t think Brittany and Sarah should take the episode down. Removing content just because it misses the mark isn’t a good precedent. We need to be able to have uncomfortable conversations without censoring each other. That being said, Sarah’s bias in favor of sororities is troubling. I don’t think it makes sense, nor is it truly morally superior, to just point a finger at frats and essentially say “all men = bad and gross” when legitimate claims against sorority culture are raised. This may just be a sensitive spot for Sarah, and that’s okay. Give her time to grow and see where others are coming from. Just because it’s a blind spot now doesn’t mean it’ll be that way for her forever. We all have areas where we are biased and ignorant. We can’t expect online creators to be perfectly in line with the social politics of the day all the time. All of us in the comments have biases and blind spots as well. We are all growing and learning. Both ladies deserve grace just like anyone else, and I’m hopeful that these comments may help Sarah understand better why Greek life can be very toxic and cause more harm than good to many people.
Best comment here
Literally the best comment here
I don't think they should have done an episode on this topic when Sarah is still so firmly stuck in the past with their memories and feelings toward their sorority. Honestly I'm glad for people who have had positive experiences, but I think they should keep it to themselves when Greek life is so clearly toxic.
I never comment, just a viewer. Sarah's clear automatic defensiveness of sororities feels blindly led and like a taught behavior that they never grew out of. Someone who I like to think is generally pretty level headed and open to many point of views. Which goes to show how culty these things really are... I'm shocked.
she seriously needs to discuss that sorority with a therapist.
This one was an interesting and honestly difficult one to listen to. I feel like a lot of the comments already posted here cover my main concerns. But I'm about over half way through and it just shows me, that white people and white women will choose to ignore or minimize things that do not go with their narrative or that surpasses their comfortability or own experience. It feels like the racism was simply looked over in this episode when it really could have been a discussion and commentary on that and the issues that rather than any kind of defense of this institution that upholds white supremacy (which includes body shaming, racism, internalized sexism etc) to an exaggerated extent. The fact that any of this was tips and tricks of how to make it in Greek life feels off brand and shocking? I really hope Sarah does self reflection and checks their privilege on this topic and the blinders, and I hope Brittany finds her voice as an ally and is able to push back on these things that are important to push back on and do so with intention.
Also, "vetting" isn't actually reasonable when your criteria is discriminatory.
Yeah, I was really sad to see that Brittany really couldn't bring up any sort of real discussion without push back from Sarah. Not how I usually see their friendship.
As a woman of color who loves this podcast I couldn’t have said this better myself. I’m super disappointed in Sarah and I hope she sees these comments and reflects on her own biases, racial and otherwise.
Also I really loved how you held Brittany accountable for her semi-silence as well 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
couldn’t have said it better
calling racism “just women being snooty” is crazyyyy 💀
sarah is a perfect example of white feminism. britney was bringing up about how bad sororities can be, and sarah couldn’t stop talking about how frats are worse. throughout this episode sarah continually minimized others issues with sororities and it was just … uncomfortable to watch. bleh.
Very surprised by how hard Sarah is defending Greek life when it’s so racist and sexist. I was not expecting them to be so unwavering when Brittany presented any pushback :0
Whenever Brittany would bring up a valid point Sarah just goes "isn't it crazy" and inserts a misdirection of something worse instead of actually addressing the points Brittany brings up.
Ya this was a tough one, the quick transition to like how are these two groups (frats a sororities) being compared when men are killing each other???
Like, no one said that? Idk bro
Yeah it felt very brain washy 😳 but I am a sorority hater. I tried to listen to their side but idk man it was wack at my school
At 38:18 it irritated me how Brittany was bringing up points and Sarah was just saying Yeah 😃 Yeah 😃
Greek life can be the only way for marginalized groups of students to form a organization with influence on the school. Get what you’re saying but it’s not just “so racist and sexist”
“You have to straighten your hair” racially motivated jesus
Also how is Sarah hearing herself say that and not see what’s wrong with that…
YES OMG, my mouth literally dropped at that how does sarah not hear the words they’re saying 🙁
literally 🤢🤢🤢🤢
And likening straight hair to “professionalism” like 🚩🚩🚩🚩
YES!!!!!!!! THIS SARAH OUTED HERSELF AS A SOUTHERN WHITE FEMINIST TODAY FOR REAL
I know a lot of these sentiments have already been shared, but I can't help but feel a bit disappointed with the trajectory of today's episode. It was kind of a reminder that no matter how inclusive white women may appear to be (speaking as a woman of colour), there is and always will be a blind spot.
At the risk of sounding too preachy I just want to say that camaraderie amongst white women has historically always taken precedence over making room for women of colour in feminist spaces. And (I'm assuming unintentionally) that notion was pretty evident in today's episode. Perhaps this ignorance wouldn't have been so prominent had there been a person or woman of racialized background to add nuance to this discussion.
I have never been in a sorority myself, largely because of my socioeconomic, racial, and geographic circumstances. It was never for me. But I have been witness to the legitimate trauma that institutions like these have caused to already marginalized groups such as Black women/femmes and other people of colour. That is legitimate hurt and violence. It takes a level of privilege and ignorance to continue minimizing these experiences by making white feminist moot points and what aboutisms - which is perhaps what shocked me the most about this episode.
Lastly, veering away from the SJW aspect of this comment, the thing I want to end on is that, perhaps like many other young Black/brown women who listen to this podcast, I feel a little personally let down. This might be a testament to just how influential parasocial relationships can be, but it almost feels like when you're the only poc in a group of predominantly white friends and someone says something just a little bit off that reminds you that you don't truly belong there. I am a big, big fan of you both as creators. Both your content has played a very important role in the way I experience social media, the internet, and the world in general over the last few years. I hope you take what so many people have echoed in these comments, not as hate or personal attacks, but as genuine constructive criticism that can work towards making VCG a better podcast.
❤️❤️
Well said
Well said. Appreciate this comment.
I feel you 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
thank u for this ❤️❤️❤️
Well, I’m glad that a white, cisgender/heterosexual-presenting woman (at the time) had a good time in an environment made by and for white heterosexual, cisgender women.
!!!!!!! in the south no less!!!!
Sarah was just so off this whole episode
lmao I agree that sorority culture seems so toxic and weird, from my uk perspective anyway. But abit rude to dismiss a nonbinary queer persons experience and say it doesnt count because of how you think they "presented" at the time.
Regardless of whether she was "out" she was a queer nonbinary person at the time and obviously still enjoyed the experience and doesn't feel any resentment towards it or like it stifled her identity? So dont really feel its our place to dismiss her experience only being positive because she wasnt "out" yet. We dont know her experience with her friends/sisters and what they knew etc. idk just seems a bit rude and condescending. Even if I dont agree with what greek culture seems to be.
Why cant it just be like it was on the sims 2 lol
@@melburton3187 Sarah did not identify as queer or non binary at the time which is important. They presented straight and cis back then which factors a lot into it. To dismiss that is wrong. If Sarah had been OUT, publicly queer and non binary, things would’ve been very different.
@@melburton3187 tone def
i’m imagining the way i feel seeing sarah defend sororities is how tmg listeners felt when cody and noel made that andrew tate episode LMAOO
THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING SKSHAK 💀💀💀
YES DUDE
THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FELT, the only two podcast episodes that made me ruuuun to TH-cam to read the comment section
I don’t see it as “vetting” your friends in the same way that you do in the rest of the world, rushing is a lot more problematic because the criteria for who gets in is founded in white supremacy and the patriarchy…it’s frustrating that sarah doesn’t understand these things just because they had a good experience
Yes! It’s problematic bc the vetting is discriminatory
Yeah I was not understanding this analogy at all….
the thing is that Sarah wouldn’t be offered a bid anymore considering their online impact and the rampant misogyny and homophobia engrained in the greek community but that’s the only comment i have in regards to her defense of them
that’s exactly what I was thinking!! instead of focusing on how their (Sarah’s) experience WAS, I wish they would’ve considered if they would’ve been accepted into a sorority in TODAY’S environment as they truly are
@@Samantha-kd1ji yeah I definitely thought they would have a different perspective. I can’t tell that they’ve grown since all that.
Not necessarily. If they went to a smaller school, it’s a very different vibe. I know for a fact my sorority and another on my campus were super LGBTQ+ friendly. But we also only had like 3,000 students in my school, so that may have helped.
I think that’s only the case if Sarah were applying to certain sororities. I can’t remember any of the names but my sister goes to UCONN and I went to Keene State. My sister’s sorority seems fine, the girls I’ve met are nice and they mostly focus on school work and networking. I had a good friend who was part of a specifically LGBTQ “fraternity” that was open to basically anyone: trans, non binary, cis, as long as you were an ally you were welcome.
There are lots of options and to paint all sororities as bad is wrong. I agree, the vast majority are very icky and cultish. But there are a few good ones out there
@@Samantha-kd1ji that's Sarah's MO, unfortunately... like, move on with your life, gal.
Anyone else surprised Sarah isn't bashing this stuff of all the things? I mean there are so many things to make fun of here lol.
Ikr. Greek life is so toxic no matter how “easy” it is too make friends. Kinda disappointed to see them defending it so hard, especially with how many poc have spoken up about how racist and discriminating they are.
Oh I don't mean to be super critical of Sarah and their experiences! I love them and it's just unexpected that they enjoyed sorority life so much. People are complicated it's just not my cup of tea 🫶🏽 Notable points y'all made tho fs fs
Sarah being dismissive of the racism, sexism, and classism within sororities is very appalling. When they were in a sorority, they were perceived as an attractive white woman. Their experience is directly related to the privilege they had while identifying as a white woman. Present day Sarah would likely not be accepted into a sorority as a non-binary person. I hope Sarah can watch this back and realize the privilege they had and how their experience is not representative of sorority culture.
After reading the comments, I’m hoping they make a part 2 to address everything they didn’t fully know
I feel like they do know but Sarah was just steam rolling this.
Sarah made a post today acknowledging and apologizing
I don’t think they should, it’s pretty clear how Sarah feels about sororities and her college days
@@user-np8yf8fj2w That's not fair on her as she is clearly someone who takes pride in acknowledging a lot of her own faults and owning up to things. I think a second part talking about the actual issues and maybe even inviting someone there who has had negative past experiences to have a proper conversation would be beneficial to basically make right to what she had been ignorant on.
@@Mayannaise4 I just hope she isn’t afraid to look at it from multiple lenses. It would suck if she felt pressured to completely take a 180 and pretend to hate them. It would be cool if she could say “I had a good experience but let’s look at why tons of other people don’t and why it’s toxic regardless of my experience”
brittany: yeah so i see all these tik toks of poc expressing concerns and telling their stro-
sarah: isn’t it crazy how men kill each other🤔🤔🤔
edit: i’ve had some time to think ab how i wanted to say this but i dont think sarah meant to come off the way they did, they have expressed many times that their adhd has made it hard for them to properly express or explain what they mean to say i think sarah just wanted to prove that there are ppl who have positive experiences w greek life (while also acknowledging the awful horrible shit) BUT there were many moments when brittany would bring something up (especially ab the rampant racism n sexism n societal pressures placed on women in sororities) and sarah would completely steamroll through them to bring up something completely different. me n many others felt uncomfortable with how one-track-minded sarah seemed in this ep, its understandable to want to defend something that may be very close to you or your personal experiences but you must acknowledge the faults uhh swag poopoodoodoo
im joking ab it but i got 30 min in (38:14 is the exact moment that happened) n i just cant listen anymore
I feel like she said something like that more than once. Not gonna rewatch to catch time stamps though. Do they not rewatch these before getting posted? So cringy
@@kyleecaudill probably, like i said i cant finish this ep but i just hope sarah takes all of these comments into consideration (including the joke ones) and really thinks ab why some ppl are critical of how they came across this ep
@@ozwaldodo ope! My bad, I guess I skimmed the last part of your comment. You didn't miss anything though. I agree with you completely.
@@kyleecaudill at least three times Sarah redirects it to frats being bad so far and i'm just after the 40 minutes mark. Such a deflection
Sarah defends it tooo much. She doesn’t really wanna talk about all the negative sides.. homophobia, transphobia, racism, body standards etc..
The way she COMPLETELY glossed over the racism claims was shocking. She pretty said “it’s possible” and then immediately moved on.
“There’s racism everywhere” as a justification had me fucking dead
you would think Sarah could offer a really interesting perspective about greek life having been closeted 🤷 anyway, as a queer person.... I have opinions about Sarah 👀👀 and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I think Sarah is strictly responding to her experiences there and she had a very good experience. She hasn't experienced all these bad things that DO happen.
this episode was soooo weird. i couldn't get through all of it. extremely rare Sarah L
I like how Sarah minimised racism to “being judged”
THIS. The whole analogy of “not everyone gets to be in the musical” really made me cringe. You don’t really need a certain talent to be in a sorority, you’re (ideally) paying them for the opportunity to experience community and philanthropy as a young adult. Background check and basic social/professional skills should suffice but there is notoriously so much racism, and straight/white/gender-normative/conventionally attractive elitism that happens during that judgement process. It was hard to watch Sarah seem reluctant to acknowledge that, let alone allow Brittany the space to delve into it.
Kappa Delta LITERALLY use to do confederate parties at plantations up until like 2018?? I can't believe how out of touch sarah was!
@@allexaceballos3452 but I also hated Sarah’s analogy to theater because Britney has talked about how fatphobic/racist theater was too so it’s not even a good comparison. She literally said she was told she could never be the lead bc of her size
Fraternities prey on women. But sororities who knowingly send girls into fraternities where other sisters have been assaulted must also be held accountable. Sororities enable the harmful behavior of frats, and until they stand up and condemn frats behaviors and stop sending sisters into those situations, it won't change.
Just because fraternities are historically worse than sororities doesn’t mean that they aren’t problematic and shouldn’t be called out. Simply reducing it to “not letting women enjoying things” is absurd. So calling out racism and fatphobia is misogynistic now?💀like be fucking for real.
it’s annoying that they’re like just dismissing all the horrible things that sororities do. Like ALL greek life is pretty horrible, just bc one is worse doesn’t mean we should sweep the other one under the rug, and that’s what basically Sarah is doing the entire time.
i mean this might be too nuanced for the internet but it CAN be both. there are plenty of misogynistic-rooted attacks of sororities and women-organizations and their activities (i.e. people degrading sorority women as “easy” or simple-minded). there are also plenty of valid criticisms of the fatphobia and racism they perpetrate. there’s really both.
reading all these comments makes me feel like they won’t keep this episode up for long lol
i’m fr wondering if they’re gonna delete it
I feel like the next episode should address what was going on in this episode. Sarah needs to reflect and do some research and they could maybe redeem themselves
@@thaliap3125 i don’t know what they could say to redeem themselves, but i agree with u lol
idk if they will delete it because brittany was making some real points that people need to consider. People like Sarah lol
@@thaliap3125 i’m pretty sure the podcast episodes are pre recorded, so i doubt there’d be anything in the next one. by the time the next episode they film after this is released it might be a weirdly long time after for them to bring it up
Racism, ableism, and all the other isms that come with sororities are VALID criticisms. I feel like Sarah characterized these criticisms as people being sexist and just calling women bitches but that's not it. I don't think Sarah's coming from a bad place just wanted to put my perspective out there
Exactly, I agree
Sarah being a popular, conventionally attractive white woman their whole life leading up to being in college really shined thru in this episode didn't it
You lost me at saying people who pay for private education are paying for friends… like umm they’re paying for a degree not an elective group activity…
Right? That was a weird take
Shoutout to Brittany’s Austin butler tshirt that she never takes off
its the only thing holding the economy together
The princess Diana shirt has a grip on her too lmao
Im really glad that Sarah had a great experience but this episode was definitely not fun
Also, Everytime Brittany critiques sorority culture… Sarah deflects to how shitty Frats are. They suck, I agree. But it seems like they are unable to discuss it to the same degree as Brittany is.
Interesting hearing Sarah say that sororities aren’t elitist when they got kicked out for not being able to afford it. Even in Oregon elitism is a pillar of Greek life and I have friends who held high up positions in their sororities who still felt very isolated and ostracized by their sisters and the organization as a whole. I love y’all both and am not trying to come from a place of hate or superiority but it was frustrating to hear, and i imagine invalidating for people who have been subject to this kind of stuff within Greek life.
When I was in college, the same sorority that Sarah was in had a chapter at my school (different school!). I was completely removed from Greek life, and yet I found out about the racism that came from that particular organization and was SHOCKED. They had a PowerPoint get leaked of “what type of girl is good vs bad to recruit”, and it deliberately showed Black hairstyles (braids, locs, twists, knots) as BAD, and only “white” hairstyles as good. To say they all just have requirements of being “put together” and “presentable” is not a good take, when clearly that’s not the case. My alma mater’s chapter of the sorority is still around too! They faced zero repercussions for it. Elitism, CLASSISM, sexism, and RACISM are integral parts to fraternities and sororities historically. You can’t just erase that by saying “well I had a good experience with it” and act like the complaints and criticisms are only valid for fraternities. People get traumatized different from each, but it’s not a trauma contest. I wish that aspect of this culture was able to be discussed, rather than insisting that racism in sororities wasn’t bad because guys die in fraternities.
This happened in like 2017/2018 I believe, so it’s fairly recent btw!!!
when she said "not everyone had to have straight hair, just look presentable" 🤨 mam what???
I dont think sarah realizes that sororities wouldn't let the real sarah, the one we love, in to their group in 2022. They are out about being lesbian, non-binary, and possibly neurodivergent. WE love her for that, but the fact is that a sorority would not take her anymore for being her authentic self. And that should make sarah ANGRY at the sorority system, not complicit.
top tier comment
I think Sarah is really putting her personal experience over the reality of Greek life.
Genuine question, is there an expectation of them being more objective? Because I went in expecting Sarah to talk about their perspective so I wasn’t disappointed.
@@jamminjamie1 i think the problem moreso is that sarah is using her subjective experience to then overlook/brush off the valid concerns that brittany was bringing up about the generalized greek life experience. Like its one thing to say "hey so my experience was great and here's my perspective on that" and "hey my experience was great therefore all these bad things don't really happen in greek life."
@@jamminjamie1 I don’t expect them to speak objectively, it’s fun that it’s from their perspective, but I do feel like when approaching other subjects they’re able to fully discuss all angles and in this episode I felt like that was lost.
Oy vey, like yes frats are DISGUSTING and shitty and the men in there are terrible to say the least. But idk Sarah like, sorta, dismissing the really bad shit that goes down in Sororities as well? They are both a different kind of evil, we get that you had a good experience Sarah but at the same time you gotta put that bias aside and try to hear what Brittany is trying to say and us as well.
Episode: about sororities
Sarah: okay but frats are *worse* Brittany
It’s kind of ironic how Sarah talked about hazing being a form of trauma bonding with other guys in frats, but completely ignored that same trauma bond they have with their sorority… they say multiple times the only reason they joined was because they wanted to have friends so bad.... I feel like because that sorority promised them the one thing they yearned for the most and filled that deep hole they had for friendship, they so easily overlook the blatant racism, sexism, and evil that happens within the Greek life community.. this is not hate towards Sarah whatsoever I’m just really shocked to see this side of them.. as for Brittany, i respect the skill she has to de-escalate situations. I could tell she had a lot stronger opinions on this topic but it honestly, probably would have just been a waste of breath after realizing how die-hard sorority sister Sarah was being.
And the last thing I wanted to mention is, this topic was just a bit odd in the first place considering the bases around this pod is internet phenomenons ? I counted a total of 5 times that tiktok or internet in general was even talked about. One of the many things I love about VCG is the research and discussion of how your topics relate back to the internet and the huge part it plays. I can say this episode felt a lot more like Sarah reminiscing on their “golden days” and less like an episode of violating community guidelines. Still love you both so much hopefully this criticism doesn’t come off as hate !
Yeah I found it odd how they didn't talk more about how big a part social media plays with rush and sororities now! Considering it was about tic toks but they didnt dive into how rush is being presented or glorified, and number of followers is just another way for them to choose by popularity, etc. They barely mentioned it at the very end, and I thought there would've been more of a discussion on that..
32:11 SARAH SINGING THE FUCKING SONG WHILE BRITTANY JUST CRINGES WITH SUNGLASSES ON IS JUST THE FUNNIEST THING
Her nodding is giving “ok grandma now let’s get you to bed”
FOUND THE COMMENT. My thoughts exactly 😂
Lmao
Very disappointed with Sarah's outlook on sororities tbh. She is not the type to ever condone any other corrupt situation like this, being popular and pretty in her youth really shined through with this topic. Brittany very obviously tiptoed around Sarah's feelings and didn't get to fully explain herself. I'm pretty shocked.
Goes to show you most people will throw their morals out to defend something they like. Gives big Harry Potter Fan energy
@@Amsayy jeez it's not like Sarah is a bad person or something they're just a bit blinded by their own experiences
Being popular pretty AND WEALTHY really shined through **
I hope Sarah reconsiders their perspective on this. As someone who is a non binary lesbian years out from a southern Virginia sorority where I was “cis-het” and conventionally attractive besides being plus sized I’ve considered the fact that who I am now, despite being the happiest and most me I’ve ever been, would NEVER get a bid today and that is a flaw within sororities not with me. And knowing all I know about alpha phi, specifically at ODU, Sarah today ( a Sarah we all love and accept) wouldve never been accepted by a phi (even if there are individuals within the sorority who would’ve) ESPECIALLY in the years they were a part of it not now. I can understand how Sarah would be reading all of these comments and probably perceiving them as hate but this is all coming from a place of love for who you are now. Consider also that you’ve said yourself that was a very rough time in your life with things you were dealing with internally and the longing to be accepted anywhere will make you grateful to anyone who accepts you (again I say this as someone who did feel grateful for that acceptance at the time). You don’t have to look upon your experience that you had at that time negatively to be able to reflect on the harm of Greek life with nuance and I think you’re letting your positive anecdotal experience overshadow the systemic negatives we all expected to be addressed in this podcast.
thanks for this comment. u put it beautifully
I think Sarah is just seeing it through the lens of someone who had a good experience im not so upset that she enjoyed it we can’t ask every person to hate something they had a positive experience with as long as they’re capable of stepping back and evaluating it. I didn’t rush but I know friends who made the best friends of their life I wouldn’t expect them to speak ill of the experience but they’ll criticize an exclusivity system
This was incredibly well put. Especially the last sentence.
Beautifully and perfectly said.
this was put perfectly
Sarah's defensive standpoint in this one was weird asf. just insistently making invalid comparisons to defend the whole structure and purposely ignoring the racial and social implications of the whole rushing process. really hard to listen through.
I can usually just pop on a vcg episode as background noise and enjoy my everyday tasks but this one…this one is not gonna be in the rotation lol
saaaaame
As someone who went through Greek life , as a black woman at a PWI. Lol it’s just a no 😅😂 Like the sorority I was in (delta phi epsilon) was the only sorority on campus with diversity lol Our founders were Jewish , and in recent years have come out in support for LGBTQIA+ rights, we have trans sisters, actively fighting the stereotypes in pretty much every way. All that said, I’m not going to defend Greek life 😂😂 I love my sisters but overall, Greek life is soooo damaging and toxic.
from what i've noticed, from both personal experience and the experienced i've heard from other college students throughout the US, it seems like greek life at each campus is always one of these two settings:
1) sororities and frats are 100% white, able bodied, cishet-presenting people and are incredibly discriminatory
or
2) the majority of sororities and frats are white, able bodied, cishet-presenting people, except for one sorority and/or one fraternity that is like the one you described- diverse, inclusive, welcoming- all of the things that sororities/frats should be.
in the latter setting, i've noticed that people who have the mindset that sarah proudly displayed in this episode will deny any (very valid) claim that frats and sororities tend to be racist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, etc by referencing the one house that is actually inclusive (which should be the bare minimum by now), even though those houses make up probably 5% or less of greek life. obviously it's good for many reasons that these houses exist, but their existence is taken advantage of by people who want to excuse the toxicity of greek life overall.
I'm in Alpha Omicron Pi and my experience is very similar. We have disabled, gender nonconforming, women of varying religions, social and economic standing, and sexual orientations. My chapter is personally incredibly inclusive and diverse.
my sister was in a jewish sorority at american (shes jewish) and she was forced to continually straighten her hair. the reason she joined a jewish one was so she wouldnt have to deal with antisemitism but they wanted all the girls to look the same and that meant straightening your hair. now she has a complex about her hair, the hair given to us by our ancestors. saying not having your hair "done" aka straight/blowout is highly discriminatory and implies ppl with natural hair are unprofessional, unkempt and dirty.
This is so depressing. I really hope she is able to learn to love her hair after that experience.
that part bothered me too as a black woman
I thought that too, they were thinking about or from a "looking professional" standpoint of being white. When I'll bet anything that comment about straightening hair before rush was probably said to someone racially
That’s horrible! And the fact that she has a complex about her hair because of them. 😔
I left an earlier comment about my friend being made fun of and called “unkept” and “not presentable” due to her not wearing makeup. That she had to wear it or be penalized. She was struggling with acne and was not using anything not prescribed by her dr. They made her feel like garbage about her skin.
Good thing Miss Brit was wearing sunglasses! This was a rough episode.
as an ex sorority girl who hated it….. surprised by sarah’s experiences
what about sarah's experiences are you surprised about?? just wondering :)
literally, her experiences seem to come out of left field…
You can tell she's the type of person that needed it
@@Katie-zo3ep I guess just how positive it was?? esp as a fellow lesbian. whenever I dropped I was told horrific things about stuff that happened behind my back that were homophobic were astonishing to me. and maybe its my fault that I joined a southern, conservative, rich white girl sorority but I had an awful experience.
@@mgarza1468 I will say I needed it too, but that doesn't mean it worked out for the best. I really needed it freshman year while I was still getting my footing in college but it quickly turned sour.
brittany brining up racism in sorority’s:
sarah: ACTUALLY MEN ARE BAD AND FRATS ARE WORSE .
i’m sorry but it definitely came off as someone trying to play the “there’s more important/ worse things to talk about than this issue” card. but I know it’s hard for some people to take criticism so don’t hate me for this one
i never leave comments of this nature, but i was really not expecting this topic to play out the way it did... It was surprising to hear Sarah's strong defense of sororities, because it feels out of line with the type of content they usually put out & the beliefs they express online. i had to stop watching because it didn't feel like the topic was being thoroughly addressed or critiqued due to Sarah's vehement feelings towards it. and i hate to say this but- this was uncomfortable to listen to. I felt for Brittany in this one because it seemed like she acted as a mediator of sorts, and was holding back from her own opinions on greek life to preserve the (usually) friendly camaraderie this podcast provides. Personally, I'm a strong critic of greek life and would never even feel inclined to try and join one- and my identity as a queer, fat, neurodivergent woman doesn't align with the girls that sororities would seek out/accept. i can only imagine this is way way worse for POC & trans ppl...... don't even get me started on the SA & rape culture surrounding these institutions. Disregarding critiques of this nature comes across as tone deaf! I'm seriously not trying to hate, and i've enjoyed this podcast for a while- but i feel this needed to be said.
this is exactly where i’m coming from too! it was so disappointing hearing a harmful topic need to be watered down by brittany bc sarah would react so strongly instead of discussing it.
yes! exactly how i feel and you said it in a very calm and put together manner, i usually just leave a video if i don’t like it but i enjoy their podcast. the way sarah brushed the racism and exclusivity in the sororities made me feel icky to say the least. i enjoy sarah usually but i did not think she would not speak on it at all for the sack of her sorority…
Sara: I will defend sororities so hard bc i was in one
Sara 2 minutes later: so my sorority was whites-only until 2013
They (Sarah) have got mad weird energy this pod
And Brittany seems like she's not able to joke like she would if Sarah wasn't defensive of sororities
@@idab6864 fr like… girlie you are a VICTIM
Not defending sororities, and agree with the sentiment. I think the 2013 sorority was one of the large sororities Sarah wasn’t apart of. They were apart of a smaller, less known one
@@idab6864 what about making friends and being lonely is pathetic?
“We were fined if we didn’t go to socials” “girls would pass out at rush” “I was hazed” nothing about this is selling me on sororities
Tbhhhh, Sarah‘s argument about if you went to a private school you can’t say anything about people paying for friends but it’s completely different, if you pay to go to school that doesn’t automatically give you friends. When you join a sorority you’re looking for friends or the community to be with. It’s just different
Exactly and with a private school you’re actually paying for an education/the teachers. Not to go to parties
It came across as something their sorority sisters would probably talk about amongst themselves to try and justify their exclusivity tbh
Yeah, I agree with your point. Paying to go to a private school means at the very least you're paying for an education. Connections, etc. may come with it but there are hundreds of small private schools that aren't as well-known for having connections as say Ivy Leagues and people attend the former because they may be close to home or for a number of other reasons
the argument literally made serious sense. i couldn't believe sarah said it.
I have a feeling Sarah's experience was the exception. Just based on media representation of greek life alone. Hazing, bullying, racism, r*pe culture, nepotism. I feel like there might've been a better way to be proud of your experience and recognizing the negative impacts it has on anyone that doesn't look like them.
Also the vetting thing isn't it. Even someone who wants to be your friend gets more than a week. Anything else, musical theater, a job, is based on talent or work ethic. What is greek row vetting for? Personality? Blind following obedience? And girls have unalived themselves bc of that "snooty" behavior. Sorry something about Sarah's continual "frats are worse" pov got me worked up.
the vetting is if ur hot and/or cool enough to get in.
@@angelbunny__ Not to say Sarah isn’t beautiful now, bc they are. But we know what they looked like during vine, when they were in the sorority. They were conventionally beautiful, hilarious & white. Of course they got in
THIS!!! sarah’s “frats are worse” POV and avoidance of talking about sorority problems was so bad :(
same this episode just aggravated the hell out of me
I really hope this comes off as constructive criticism and not hate. I’m such a fan of the both of you together and apart. You’re both smart, talented, so fucking funny and usually very self aware. I think that’s why people are thrown off. I love the pod and will continue to listen. This ep just hit different
i would NOT have let this episode go up and i won’t be surprised if they both decide to take it down💀 simply bc of the fact that sarah is so obviously not able to see past her personal experience to a point that is quite frankly offensive. excusing not only the history of sororities but the bigotry that goes on NOW in sororities is disgusting. i’m glad brittany was able get a few words in about what really goes on in these groups. this one was too hard to watch, and as someone who REALLY looks up to sarah, im really disappointed in them :/
i’m glad it’s up, it’s giving a look into the minds behind it all, i’d rather know than it be hidden.
you can’t diss frats and then openly support and love sororities. they go hand in hand and both do horrible things