Update, August 4th: We've now used a Framework Laptop 16 prototype with a working GPU fan, playing games for 15 minutes without any throttling. The touchpad on that machine worked every time we swapped it, too.
Most cellular/wifi antennas are routed through the screen lid for range/performance reasons. I've seen active amplified antennas sit on the base of Dell precision laptops, how is this handled on the framework? Getting tired of lugging my Dell Precision 17" around and it's a pain on flights, this seems like an interesting alternative.
Framework has the advantage that other giant players didn't have. Not only are technology more mature than before (USB-C modules couldn't have been replicated with earlier standard technology, necessitating proprietary modules), they knew when to delegate to the wider community, unlike other companies which tried to do it all by themselves. Also, perhaps most importantly, Framework has nowhere to back off, while existing business have nothing to lose if they don't keep up with the promise.
I think you're right with regards to USB-C. I think you're a bit off on part about other company's having to struggle by doing it all by themselves. Unlike Framework they had massive engineering budgets, teams and purchasing power that could have enabled them to do something like this far earlier. Laptops back in the day used to have a fair amount of modularity (not for upgrades but for batteries, expansion cards etc). But it wasn't in their shareholder's interests for them to make their computers modular over the long term in a way that would reduce overall sales of laptops. Framework's big bet here is that they can scale up big enough to be able to work with big players, and get volume discounts to be price competitive, and then that they can utilize that customer base to continue to sell upgrade parts and new laptops.
There's also another crucial aspect imho: computers are now "fully developped". I mean, of course tech always progresses but unless you game heavily or do intensive video editing that kind of specs will be good for a *long* time. Even disk space is not really an issue with the rise of cloud based services. If you go full premium and get yourslf the latest motherboard, 1TB of SSD and 64GB of RAM, that laptop can be functionally valid for a solid decade.
@@_____alyptic Not anytime soon - both Intel and AMD have long dropped support for CPU sockets on laptop SKUs, and because of compatibility reasons with the motherboard, I doubt that Framework will find it easy. We'll probably see more display and GPU options in the near future.
The problem is that its too expensive for the specs. Whilst a premium might be expected for the level of user upgradability that you no longer see in mainstream flagships, it is really way too high a margin. You can basically get a "level up" spec'd laptop for the price of a framework (i7 instead of an i5, ryzen 7 or 9 instead of a 5 etc.).
It´s expensive considering only the specs of a laptop but considering this is a very modular, personalizable, upgradeable laptop that is leading the right to repair philosophy in the category and is coming from a start-up that has kept its promise of making and supporting modular hardware, it is a must buy.
@@keerthan7558the idea is it’ll save you money in the long run. Historically no modular project stayed around that long for us to judge that statement.
$1400 for the base-model, it's definitely gonna add up with better add-ons, but like others have said the future-proofing is what really makes it worth it (as long as the company delivers on its promise!).
Pre-ordered immediately. For a long time I've been waiting for a laptop with no Windows tax, a high refresh rate screen, and an AMD GPU. Framework comes along and upgrades my dream with modularity and upgradeability.
The demand for this is so high that when I woke up & heard that pre-orders had opened it was already at Batch 5 which is late this year, I literally got my pre-order done just in time for shipping this year. When I looked tonight it was at Batch 6 which is Q1 2024!
It's probably a fair calculation by LTT that it's better to let a recognised review outlet that's reasonably independent have this one; this way they don't have the bad PR suggesting they're steering LTT audience towards the pre-ordering (LTT wasn't big on pre-ordering before reviews too) / or be associated with any product issues / delays (afterall pre-orders can have massive delays, think Kickstarter). Another consideration is that LMG still has PC/laptop sponsors - that too much steering, would undermine their ability to grow/keep those $$$, which becomes harder if they're seen as in direct competition (would be the case if LTT very visibly became Framework's PR arm).
Linus has already talked extensively about Framework; only those who already follow him are going to be informed if the coverage is mainly done by LTT. This way, those who follow The Verge but don’t follow LTT may have access to the info
Framework recently published keyboard layout mock-ups for additional languages which included Danish, Norwegian and Swedish and requested public commentary, so it would appear that it is coming. 🙂
@@seansingh4421 Even if Framework ships internationally, if we assume it would ship from inside the EU so that there's no import VAT and customs charges, we would still need keyboards for our Nordic languages. The alphabet here has three extra letters.
I hope they sell well right now, enthusiast will support them so they can scale their production for a better more affordable second generation, hopefully they can start selling in more countries too.
As of 12:00UTC they've sold through their first 5 Batches. Luckily their production capacity seems pretty good for the 1st gen Framework 16 vs the original Framework 13. I had to wait quite a while to get my Framework 13 haha.
But that's the thing; sure, the initial investment is high, but as long as the chassis is undamaged, you just replace broken parts and upgrade legacy ones. A perfect example is the CPU, typically an integral part of a laptop that is not economical, if just impossible to upgrade. Here, you just buy a new motherboard with the latest gen CPU, replace it in 10-15 minutes, and you're good for the next few years. Imagine how hassle-free the Windows 10 to 11 upgrade would be if everyone did this.
The possibilities are endless with the removable ports. I'm on batch 1 of the pre orders and also gonna wait for someone to make a module shell that can house an entire logitech wireless receiver into it so it is absolutely flushed into the laptop.
You might also be able to just take some of the pci express lanes from the expansion bay, add a usb port inside the expansion bay, and put the receiver in there
This is absolutely genius idea! I would love to have a laptop in future which can suffice for ages without worrying to get outdated hardware when i can swap it!
It's QMK so probably not, but you can edit the firmware itself and QMK has really good built-in RGB support (like changing light colors based on keys being held, the current layer you're in, etc). QMK's RGB support is way better than openrgb, although you'll need to edit some config files and re-flash the firmware to change the rgb instead of having a GUI
I would love to see Max-Q GPUs for the Framework Laptop 16. It would be awesome for professional applications while still keeping cool and under the 100W max power delivery.
Framework founder Nirav would not even say the word "Nvidia" to me. :-) He says the whole thing is manufacturer-agnostic, though, and AMD's Frank Azor says they don't mandate any exclusivity in the AMD Advantage program, so... That said, does AMD's GPU not run cool? I haven't used a machine with the 7700S yet
isn't the point of this that there are no "Gen"s? The framework 13 has kept the same body through 3 years of CPU upgrades. you may be waiing a long long time if a new body is what you're after
@@defnotatroll I agree Generation is probably a bad way to talk about what Framework is trying to do. My point is, I'll hold off sometime and see if there are iterative (or otherwise) design & sw changes/improvements, before getting one.
You mean like the Cooler Master enclosure for your old mainboard? Nirav told me he'd like to do something like that for the GPU, but I imagine it depends on sales. www.theverge.com/2023/3/23/23652939/framework-cooler-master-sff-pc-case
Yeah I was surprised there aren't alternate trackpad modules. Also, you have to have the trackpad directly below the keyboard, not that many people would want to offset them from one another.
Yeah, I have a trackpad with no buttons and I absolutely hate it. Worst trackpad I've ever had and I've had a lot of them. Impossible to do left + right click at the same time, amongst other things.
Alright, for now I stick with the 7700S, though for this resolution and Hz performance I'd need something beefier... so I hope Nvidia/AMD will bring new GPUs with higher VRAM Capacity & Bus and of course high performance later on.
None confirmed yet beyond the 7700S, but AMD made it sound like this has a generation or two in it (without promising anything) even if it's not a roaring success. Then again, it could fizzle if nobody buys into it.
It had better be something decent and somewhat soon, because the GPU they're shipping now is kind of a joke machine. I don't want 3060 levels of performance on a $2100 laptop in 2023 that I'll actually receive in 2024. That's terrible for them in terms of ability to produce, but I refuse to pay for something like that regardless of their troubles.
While this new graphics module seems great, I'm still just worried that it's proprietary and form-factor-unique. They won't be able to scale it down or up to a 15" or 17" reasonably, much less other sizes. I wish they'd found a way to revive MXM, which actually was an industry standard.
honestly love the idea of this, its just the support after buying this close to $2000 machine, and no official backing from GPU OE's to develop these module kits that's a bit scary. I hope they fall through and get a actual partner to help develop and sustain these gpu modules for the future.
Possibly the most exciting laptop on the market! I see Framework becoming a company that provides for all sorts of discrete markets. All I need now is the money to buy one. 🙂😍
The future is here…. Have been using razer blade 15 since 2018 and it was a big mistake to get that machine. Will keep using that for another 3-4 years and then I’m getting a framework with discrete GPU!!!
While it is expensive for the specs, I see it more as me buying the laptop not because its the best value, but because I love the concept and really want to see them succeed in the long run. Also I don't really care the dGPU is close to 3060 levels of performance, it's still a massive upgrade from the RX 6400 I have in my crappy Dell OptiPlex from 2013, and most of the games I play don't need super high end GPUs anyway.
Chances are pretty good that eventually they will have Nvidia GPUs too so for those that are like me and dont have a lot of time spent with AMD hardware that will be good. This will be my first full AMD system since my laptop I had after high school.
@@claytonmerle976 Funny enough this will be my first laptop after high school. I'm so excited to get rid of my school provided Thinkpad for something with a bigger screen.
I just pre-ordered my Framework 16 for Q2. My Configuration: SYSTEM: Ryzen 7 7840HS, MEMORY: DDR5-5600 - 16GB (1x16GB), STORAGE: WD_Black SN770 NVMe - M.2 2280 - 500GB, CUSTOMIZATION: KEYBOARD: RGB US English, BEZEL - Black, 1 - USB-C, 1- USB-A, 1 - HDMI (3rd Gen). I can't wait! I want to use it for programming and XR development.
Do you think I could buy this with the intent of using this full time for blender? I really want a lap top bc in the future I plan to move around a lot but still wanna animate, model, texture, render, and also play VR games like VRC, Alyx, etc. Is this lap top ok for that? I'm sorta banking on Nvida and other GPUs to come out in the future that are wayyyy better at those bench marks but as it is currently is it good for that?
Let's say if I buy a fromework Laptop today, my expectation is to keep this laptop for as long as posible and in theory, I can keep this laptop indefinitely as long as Framework keep supporting upgrades / replace modular components for the laptop. So instead of spending 1000 USD every 2-3 years I can spend 400-500 USD (hopefully) to upgrade
@@heliosaiden Yeah, doesnt seem like frameworks gonna go anywhere, with linus tech tips talking about putting cash into their stocks and the fact they sold out 5 batches in 12 hours.
I would love it if you could purchase the laptop without a trackpad and instead have a trackpoint nipple. I've never been a fan of trackpads and hate how much space they take up on laptops. If they have an option where you can swap out the trackpad for a blank palmrest or a perhaps even a small screen that would be awesome. I would most likely just use an external mouse rather than a trackpad.
I was looking at this two weeks ago when I was in the market for a new gaming laptop, the reason I didn't get one was because gfx cards hadn't been announced yet. But when it comes time for a replacement to what I bought, if Framework is still around I'll definitely be buying.
I should be buying a computer lext fall. I am hoping to get the Framework 16 with AMD. I did not know graphics cards where going to be an option. But that is exciting.
@@marcus3d Taking the Ryzen configurator for example, there are 2 options and the highest end one is £200 more expensive for a relatively minor bump in specs. If that's purely reflecting the OEM part prices they could definitely offer cheaper options to significantly lower the entry price to below £1000. That being said, I know they're not able to offer these systems at great volume yet but that could hopefully change soon. I'd also love to see if the standard was open enough for 3rd parties to consider making their own boards??
I hope they make the bezels of the display thinner in the next model , that bottom chin is soo thick ! ik there's probably some hardware limitations that prevents them from doing that rn but hopeful they can solve that .
Hope they keep doing this for the foreseeable future and put a dent to hard-to-repair alternatives from other brands that conveniently ignore the problem of electronic waste plaguing the planet.
Here's my conflict: Do I need all this power in one quite large unit to take with me, or should I get a more portable 13" Framework, buy the GPU with a (in the works) GPU chassis and use it as an eGPU over USB-C? Which one would be more economical?
It looks sick but I hope they release a single plate option for the deck. If im not going to use that real estate for extra input modules, I think all those seams really make it uglier than it could be.
The concept has the potential to be something major in the industry. The key for Framework is to get peripherals and accessories maker to join their ecosystem. They've recently partnered Cooler Master to produce mainboard cases if they can cajole brands like Ugreen, Baseus, Vivan, Verbatim, or Logitech to join in, that'll open the door to a wider adoption
is it true the Interposer is only rated for 50 swaps before needing replacement which would kind of ruin the concept of swapping out the dgpu for the blank if you want ultraportability or maybe utilizing that expansion bay for things like a second battery, etc?
Yes and hot swapping is not a thing, you have to remove the keyboard and other componentry to access the connection and screw it on. So it has to switch off. I'm hoping the gpu can be switched off by software
@@incognitobandito244 I wasn't referring to hot swapping, but rather swapping in general (be it powered down) and with the interposer only rated for 50 swaps, I feel framework was playing it a little lose with the marketing the past few months eluding in all promotional material the ease of switching from the dgpu to a blank,. But now looking back - all the camera angles were positioned to show the underside of the laptop making it look like it was a simple swap in/out - but I get it. Just think that was one feature people were excited about only to find out its not as initially advertised. Still hats off to Framework for what they're trying to do.
aside of my macbook, this is the only laptop i'm looking forward to own, but the pieces are super expensive tho, i understand that you're not spending $1200 every 5 years from buying a brand new laptop, but you're spending for battery replaceability and cpu upgrade that will cost the same and even more, i'm just hoping they increase the manufacturing and improve the cost of pieces, they've been in talks with other companies to make other components like cooler master, i mean, this is the future of laptops, i just stopped going for laptops when it comes to gaming or productivity in large scale, but if framework is still alive in the next 5 years, i'm sold for real
@@mcslender2965 i just checked on their website and a 11th gen intel motherboard is on discount from a $1000, i'm not sure if that's cheaper than getting a laptop
@@NicolasSilvaVasault I also just checked their website, a standalone upgraded 13th gen intel i5 is 450 whille the entire laptop with the same cpu comes out to 1050. That's 600 dollars cheaper, an 11th gen framework 13 has the exact same keyboard, display, chassis etc... as this new one.
@@itsasadbunny bro they're on discount, the real price is like 700~1000 also, some of their low end cpu motherboard are way more expensive than a laptop of the same specs
@NicolasSilvaVasault They are not on discount. That is the market price. The discounted prices are even cheaper, with the 11th gen going for 300 for the base model motherboard. A similar spec xps 13 plus is 1300 vs 1500 for the framework. You do have to pay some premium for upgradability so they are the same price, wise.
this is the type of stuff that really makes me want to get a laptop but i really don't need one currently so i probably won't get one atleast for few years.
they need launch a higer performance d gpu option like rx 7800m or rx 7900m. once these option out i can see myself using this as my new worksation laptop.
I want this to succeed but so many companies in the past have done similar only to abandon the projects leaves me less than optimistic.... In particular I remember one a long time ago I think it was a Lenovo... Where you would use the dvd rom slot to swap your new GPU ( which was shapped like a dvd rom drive..).. I always thought that was a neat idea... The laptop was made and worked but they never released any GPU upgrades for the device..... So the real test isn't if a company can build it.. It's if it's willing to provide support and upgrades down the line.... So far this product has a long way to go but with a company like frameworks behind it I'm hopeful it will work this time..
A tiny company like that plus all the engineering for the swappable components give you a starting point with 16gb/512gb, but Apple STILL only give 8gb/256gb in 2023 for base model and charge you so much more for any upgrade.
This looks so cool. If they ever get around to adding Nvidia GPU's, it'd be really hard for me to not get one at some point. The idea is so well executed and the fact that you can buy a case to turn old mainboards into mini-desktops for like $300 is amazing
The desktop case is actually just $39 USD, if you've got spare modules to use with it (and presumably the RAM and SSD that goes with your old motherboard). And if you are willing to accept the slight jank of sticking a USB-C cable into the expansion slot, you can even technically get away without any. But with USB-C (which can also do video) and USB-A modules only costing $9 each, it's not expensive to get a more polished setup.
Another reason they went AMD instead of NVIDIA is probably because Framework has a sizeable Linux user base and NVIDIA has by far the shittiest drivers on Linux (both AMD and Intel GPUs use one driver called Mesa, and instead of contributing to Mesa like the other 2 companies NVIDIA decided to make their own closed source shittier driver)
buying all the individual parts is much more expensive than buying the diy laptop. I would have prefered reasonable prices as long as you previously bought a diy or prebuilt laptop. Buying a diy or built framework laptop is already more expensive than regular laptops and on top of that individual parts are even more expensive. I didn't properly say it but you get the point.
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Update, August 4th: We've now used a Framework Laptop 16 prototype with a working GPU fan, playing games for 15 minutes without any throttling. The touchpad on that machine worked every time we swapped it, too.
Amazing. We only need economics of scale to bring down the price of these beauties!
Most cellular/wifi antennas are routed through the screen lid for range/performance reasons. I've seen active amplified antennas sit on the base of Dell precision laptops, how is this handled on the framework? Getting tired of lugging my Dell Precision 17" around and it's a pain on flights, this seems like an interesting alternative.
@@tommymaddox6785this one appears to have a massive antenna line at the top end of the lid. Wifi does work very well though.
Framework has the advantage that other giant players didn't have. Not only are technology more mature than before (USB-C modules couldn't have been replicated with earlier standard technology, necessitating proprietary modules), they knew when to delegate to the wider community, unlike other companies which tried to do it all by themselves. Also, perhaps most importantly, Framework has nowhere to back off, while existing business have nothing to lose if they don't keep up with the promise.
I think you're right with regards to USB-C. I think you're a bit off on part about other company's having to struggle by doing it all by themselves. Unlike Framework they had massive engineering budgets, teams and purchasing power that could have enabled them to do something like this far earlier. Laptops back in the day used to have a fair amount of modularity (not for upgrades but for batteries, expansion cards etc). But it wasn't in their shareholder's interests for them to make their computers modular over the long term in a way that would reduce overall sales of laptops.
Framework's big bet here is that they can scale up big enough to be able to work with big players, and get volume discounts to be price competitive, and then that they can utilize that customer base to continue to sell upgrade parts and new laptops.
There was a standard used in the past for expandable modules, but it died as more companies ditched modules and became less and less repairable
It's about money, if a big company does modular laptops. Less consumers will be a new complete laptop
The truth is that most of those big companies were doing it as a gimmick and didn't actually care.
There's also another crucial aspect imho: computers are now "fully developped". I mean, of course tech always progresses but unless you game heavily or do intensive video editing that kind of specs will be good for a *long* time. Even disk space is not really an issue with the rise of cloud based services. If you go full premium and get yourslf the latest motherboard, 1TB of SSD and 64GB of RAM, that laptop can be functionally valid for a solid decade.
This is so cool! Linus really invested in a super concept and execution!
Linus is stilly too often, so it is not good that he is an investor.
CPU swapping is next 👀
@@_____alyptic Not anytime soon - both Intel and AMD have long dropped support for CPU sockets on laptop SKUs, and because of compatibility reasons with the motherboard, I doubt that Framework will find it easy. We'll probably see more display and GPU options in the near future.
@@leonro It will probably be like framework 13, swapping the motherboard to upgrade/change the cpu.
The problem is that its too expensive for the specs. Whilst a premium might be expected for the level of user upgradability that you no longer see in mainstream flagships, it is really way too high a margin.
You can basically get a "level up" spec'd laptop for the price of a framework (i7 instead of an i5, ryzen 7 or 9 instead of a 5 etc.).
I was expecting this to start at almost $2000 but $1400 is a must buy for me
love to see it
well by the time you add all the essential parts it costs around $1800(without graphics card) so... still very expensive
It´s expensive considering only the specs of a laptop but considering this is a very modular, personalizable, upgradeable laptop that is leading the right to repair philosophy in the category and is coming from a start-up that has kept its promise of making and supporting modular hardware, it is a must buy.
@@keerthan7558the idea is it’ll save you money in the long run. Historically no modular project stayed around that long for us to judge that statement.
$1400 for the base-model, it's definitely gonna add up with better add-ons, but like others have said the future-proofing is what really makes it worth it (as long as the company delivers on its promise!).
So the one thing Framework couldn’t tell us about yet is battery life - how much battery do you want, need, or expect in a machine like this?
16 hours
6-8 hours, 6 in full use 8 in Idle. given the hardware it's pushing
I wouldn’t game on battery and it looks like transportable workstation instead of an coffeeshop netbook, so I would expect pretty low, like 3 hours 🤔
No gaming laptop has more than 1 hour life during gaming. So that.
With an AMD Ryzen 7040 HS CPU, probably around 6 - 8 for light use with the screen at 60 hz and 200 - 250 nits of brightness.
Pre-ordered immediately. For a long time I've been waiting for a laptop with no Windows tax, a high refresh rate screen, and an AMD GPU. Framework comes along and upgrades my dream with modularity and upgradeability.
how did it go for you does it overheat?
@@ddaffyduck9636it’s not even on sale yet
Are you happy with it?¿
The demand for this is so high that when I woke up & heard that pre-orders had opened it was already at Batch 5 which is late this year, I literally got my pre-order done just in time for shipping this year. When I looked tonight it was at Batch 6 which is Q1 2024!
Quite surprised that it was The Verge and not LTT that got this exclusive look, given that Linus is actual investor in Framework!
I'd be surprised if he didn't have right of first refusal. And maybe said, it would be more objective for someone else to review it.
Linus showed this laptop 3 months ago The Verge didn't got this exclusive look ur talking about
It's probably a fair calculation by LTT that it's better to let a recognised review outlet that's reasonably independent have this one; this way they don't have the bad PR suggesting they're steering LTT audience towards the pre-ordering (LTT wasn't big on pre-ordering before reviews too) / or be associated with any product issues / delays (afterall pre-orders can have massive delays, think Kickstarter). Another consideration is that LMG still has PC/laptop sponsors - that too much steering, would undermine their ability to grow/keep those $$$, which becomes harder if they're seen as in direct competition (would be the case if LTT very visibly became Framework's PR arm).
Linus has already talked extensively about Framework; only those who already follow him are going to be informed if the coverage is mainly done by LTT. This way, those who follow The Verge but don’t follow LTT may have access to the info
LTT 🤮
Yup, they're getting my money. I want these guys to keep going for real.
I love Framework. If they manage to launch in Scandinavia, it'll be my next laptop.
I hope they will too! I'm from Norway 🙂
Me too!
Framework recently published keyboard layout mock-ups for additional languages which included Danish, Norwegian and Swedish and requested public commentary, so it would appear that it is coming. 🙂
Cant you have it shipped internationally ?
@@seansingh4421 Even if Framework ships internationally, if we assume it would ship from inside the EU so that there's no import VAT and customs charges, we would still need keyboards for our Nordic languages. The alphabet here has three extra letters.
I hope they sell well right now, enthusiast will support them so they can scale their production for a better more affordable second generation, hopefully they can start selling in more countries too.
As of 12:00UTC they've sold through their first 5 Batches. Luckily their production capacity seems pretty good for the 1st gen Framework 16 vs the original Framework 13. I had to wait quite a while to get my Framework 13 haha.
@@AndrewWellsPlus As of 19:24UTC they are on their 7th batch.
From Framework: "We expected to sell the first five batches over the course of a few months. Instead, we sold through them in 12 hours"
If I ever get a laptop for gaming I will definitely get this model or a future iteration. Let’s keep Framework as a company alive!
Everyone in need of a Laptop should get a Framework Laptop.
Framework actually cares about the environment and their customers.
Pre-ordered mine! Expensive AF to deck it out (except storage -- supplying that separately) but I am so excited.
But that's the thing; sure, the initial investment is high, but as long as the chassis is undamaged, you just replace broken parts and upgrade legacy ones. A perfect example is the CPU, typically an integral part of a laptop that is not economical, if just impossible to upgrade. Here, you just buy a new motherboard with the latest gen CPU, replace it in 10-15 minutes, and you're good for the next few years. Imagine how hassle-free the Windows 10 to 11 upgrade would be if everyone did this.
The possibilities are endless with the removable ports. I'm on batch 1 of the pre orders and also gonna wait for someone to make a module shell that can house an entire logitech wireless receiver into it so it is absolutely flushed into the laptop.
Such a shell shouldn't take more than a few minutes to whip up and produce on a 3D printer.
You might also be able to just take some of the pci express lanes from the expansion bay, add a usb port inside the expansion bay, and put the receiver in there
I am so happy with my 11th gen Intel Framework 13. Patiently waiting to upgrade my two year old Intel laptop to the latest AMD SoC 😁😁
Love the concept. The only way this company can flourish is buying their laptops, people!
This is absolutely genius idea! I would love to have a laptop in future which can suffice for ages without worrying to get outdated hardware when i can swap it!
I hope to see variable-high refresh rate display and a cool keyboard for the 13 laptop.
AND PLEASE, GIVE US FRAMEWORK IN SPAIN SOON.
i am hoping that they make the rgb work with openrgb.
ditto. SignalRGB too please. It's all QMK so it's probably not much of a stretch...
It's QMK so probably not, but you can edit the firmware itself and QMK has really good built-in RGB support (like changing light colors based on keys being held, the current layer you're in, etc). QMK's RGB support is way better than openrgb, although you'll need to edit some config files and re-flash the firmware to change the rgb instead of having a GUI
I would love to see Max-Q GPUs for the Framework Laptop 16. It would be awesome for professional applications while still keeping cool and under the 100W max power delivery.
Framework founder Nirav would not even say the word "Nvidia" to me. :-) He says the whole thing is manufacturer-agnostic, though, and AMD's Frank Azor says they don't mandate any exclusivity in the AMD Advantage program, so...
That said, does AMD's GPU not run cool? I haven't used a machine with the 7700S yet
The Pricing is very good right now, especially for a first gen product. I think I'm aiming for the 2nd gen version of the 16
I will buy the Gen 2 too.
I'll buy first Gen, but I want to wait until it's fully out and probably will wait for a second Gen graphics card module.
isn't the point of this that there are no "Gen"s? The framework 13 has kept the same body through 3 years of CPU upgrades. you may be waiing a long long time if a new body is what you're after
@@defnotatroll I agree Generation is probably a bad way to talk about what Framework is trying to do.
My point is, I'll hold off sometime and see if there are iterative (or otherwise) design & sw changes/improvements, before getting one.
@@radikal8485 design change with compatibility with existing components would be great
I won't be purchasing this machine, but I'm very excited where this company is going and have their regular laptop on reservation!
Would be great to see a screen module that can replace the keyboard for those who use an external keyboard
That was one of the concepts iirc
we need a framework case for the 16in that supports the gpu.
You mean like the Cooler Master enclosure for your old mainboard? Nirav told me he'd like to do something like that for the GPU, but I imagine it depends on sales. www.theverge.com/2023/3/23/23652939/framework-cooler-master-sff-pc-case
Yes! The infamous verge, if you were this enthusiastic about all your tech videos, you'd have reach 10 mil subs by now.
I don't want to buy 16:9 screen in 2023. I'm so happy taller screens returned to laptops, I don't understand why even we used 16:9!?
Because ThE mOvIe CiNeMaTiC eXpErIeNcE.
@@cameronbosch1213 I think they did it for few cents of extra profit per laptop :(
Cheaper production.
@@mstu8097 Probably. That might be the reason only Apple used 16 : 10 for about a decade until 16 : 10 & 3 : 2 came back in fashion.
This reminds me of what project aura could have been for phones if google didn’t kill it before it reached the market
Wow, I'm truly impressed! Wish it could be delivered to my country, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
This is awesome! I just wish they added a trackpad with buttons.
Yeah I was surprised there aren't alternate trackpad modules. Also, you have to have the trackpad directly below the keyboard, not that many people would want to offset them from one another.
Separately, I’d be very surprised if they haven’t looked into a TrackPoint (is that what it’s called? The red keyboard nipple.)
Not having actual buttons is a deal-breaker for me. Otherwise, I'm sure it's a nice machine.
Yeah, I have a trackpad with no buttons and I absolutely hate it. Worst trackpad I've ever had and I've had a lot of them. Impossible to do left + right click at the same time, amongst other things.
Great video, great delivery from the host.
Thank you kindly! (Sean here, checking out the comments.)
Alright, for now I stick with the 7700S, though for this resolution and Hz performance I'd need something beefier... so I hope Nvidia/AMD will bring new GPUs with higher VRAM Capacity & Bus and of course high performance later on.
Wonder how many and which GPU upgrade option are going to be available for this line?
the more succeful it is the more support it will get
None confirmed yet beyond the 7700S, but AMD made it sound like this has a generation or two in it (without promising anything) even if it's not a roaring success. Then again, it could fizzle if nobody buys into it.
It took them a while to get AMD onboard for SoCs, so I can see them eventually trickling in new GPUs from Nvidia down the line.
It had better be something decent and somewhat soon, because the GPU they're shipping now is kind of a joke machine. I don't want 3060 levels of performance on a $2100 laptop in 2023 that I'll actually receive in 2024. That's terrible for them in terms of ability to produce, but I refuse to pay for something like that regardless of their troubles.
@@abubakrakram6208 Then you wait and see if anything is produced "in the future" for this laptop.
This is a winner, definitely going to be getting a Framework laptop next!
Framework is the kind of computer I would see in the future.
i am really looking forward to this laptop. if they can provide gpu replacements for at least 2 gpu gens for the same laptop im in!!!
While this new graphics module seems great, I'm still just worried that it's proprietary and form-factor-unique. They won't be able to scale it down or up to a 15" or 17" reasonably, much less other sizes. I wish they'd found a way to revive MXM, which actually was an industry standard.
Great video! But the music got quite intrusive and distracting, it might be better for some viewers if you could tone it down a little next time :)
Where are the transparent modules/parts? Also an OLED screen would be great as an option
honestly love the idea of this, its just the support after buying this close to $2000 machine, and no official backing from GPU OE's to develop these module kits that's a bit scary. I hope they fall through and get a actual partner to help develop and sustain these gpu modules for the future.
Please, add the option to choose if I want esthetics or more vents for cooling.
Interesting product, interesting video. But why is the audio out of sync with the video?
Possibly the most exciting laptop on the market! I see Framework becoming a company that provides for all sorts of discrete markets. All I need now is the money to buy one. 🙂😍
Just got a G14 probably give it 2 years if this has matured and still around might be what I upgrade to
The future is here…. Have been using razer blade 15 since 2018 and it was a big mistake to get that machine. Will keep using that for another 3-4 years and then I’m getting a framework with discrete GPU!!!
out of my price range, but still a superb idea. i hope they do amazingly well
Just bought my current laptop last year, but this is the laptop to buy next
If someone makes an ortholinear keyboard for this laptop, it's an instant buy for me.
Already pre-ordered mine!!
While it is expensive for the specs, I see it more as me buying the laptop not because its the best value, but because I love the concept and really want to see them succeed in the long run. Also I don't really care the dGPU is close to 3060 levels of performance, it's still a massive upgrade from the RX 6400 I have in my crappy Dell OptiPlex from 2013, and most of the games I play don't need super high end GPUs anyway.
And you'll be able to keep the chassis/core components and only upgrade your pain points going forward.
Chances are pretty good that eventually they will have Nvidia GPUs too so for those that are like me and dont have a lot of time spent with AMD hardware that will be good. This will be my first full AMD system since my laptop I had after high school.
@@claytonmerle976 Funny enough this will be my first laptop after high school. I'm so excited to get rid of my school provided Thinkpad for something with a bigger screen.
It is also a great value for its upgradability. When you want a new laptop, you won’t have to buy a whole new computer.
@@CC-gy7elexcept 2 whole new computers might be cheaper than a framework plus upgrading it overtime. I hope they get big enough to be cheaper.
I just pre-ordered my Framework 16 for Q2. My Configuration: SYSTEM: Ryzen 7 7840HS, MEMORY: DDR5-5600 - 16GB (1x16GB), STORAGE: WD_Black SN770 NVMe - M.2 2280 - 500GB, CUSTOMIZATION: KEYBOARD: RGB US English, BEZEL - Black, 1 - USB-C, 1- USB-A, 1 - HDMI (3rd Gen). I can't wait! I want to use it for programming and XR development.
Since double sided m.2s are a thing I don’t see stacked drives with proper cooling contact patches being any different.
Do you think I could buy this with the intent of using this full time for blender? I really want a lap top bc in the future I plan to move around a lot but still wanna animate, model, texture, render, and also play VR games like VRC, Alyx, etc. Is this lap top ok for that? I'm sorta banking on Nvida and other GPUs to come out in the future that are wayyyy better at those bench marks but as it is currently is it good for that?
Once my current laptop dies, I will be purchasing the framework 16
Here's an idea: what if framework add pcie express slot in the back thingy (?) So we could use desktop vga card
Let's say if I buy a fromework Laptop today, my expectation is to keep this laptop for as long as posible and in theory, I can keep this laptop indefinitely as long as Framework keep supporting upgrades / replace modular components for the laptop. So instead of spending 1000 USD every 2-3 years I can spend 400-500 USD (hopefully) to upgrade
I have a vivid vision of carrying a 14 inch modal Framwork laptop to my company for work and then bring it back home and mount it to eGPU for gaming
@@heliosaiden Yeah, doesnt seem like frameworks gonna go anywhere, with linus tech tips talking about putting cash into their stocks and the fact they sold out 5 batches in 12 hours.
MY GOOOOSH this is the best way to save mother Earth !!!! I hope smartphones would adapt very soon !!
future proofing gaming laptops is something i thought i’d never hear
I love this concept. I really hope it catches on and is successful! Thanks for the video!
The problem of Framework is they aren’t supply worldwide
They're working on it! They're working really hard.
My life is incomplete without upgradable laptop.
This will be my Chirstmas gift to myslef, half way there with my savings( was saving for a 13 but now im holding for the 16)
I would love it if you could purchase the laptop without a trackpad and instead have a trackpoint nipple. I've never been a fan of trackpads and hate how much space they take up on laptops. If they have an option where you can swap out the trackpad for a blank palmrest or a perhaps even a small screen that would be awesome. I would most likely just use an external mouse rather than a trackpad.
This definitely is a REVOLUTION in the Laptop industry... Way to GO Framework !! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I was looking at this two weeks ago when I was in the market for a new gaming laptop, the reason I didn't get one was because gfx cards hadn't been announced yet.
But when it comes time for a replacement to what I bought, if Framework is still around I'll definitely be buying.
Imagine if this brand got supported from a lot of countries, service center and distribution of the product will be done in no time
Do they have any plans for OLED or miniLED screens in the foreseeable future?
I should be buying a computer lext fall. I am hoping to get the Framework 16 with AMD. I did not know graphics cards where going to be an option. But that is exciting.
I'd like to see them offer some entry-level mobos - i3/i5 and ryzen 5/3 so you can get onto the platform cheaper and upgrade later.
I think the barebone is such a big part of the price that a cheaper cpu won't affect the price in a relevant way.
@@marcus3d Taking the Ryzen configurator for example, there are 2 options and the highest end one is £200 more expensive for a relatively minor bump in specs. If that's purely reflecting the OEM part prices they could definitely offer cheaper options to significantly lower the entry price to below £1000.
That being said, I know they're not able to offer these systems at great volume yet but that could hopefully change soon. I'd also love to see if the standard was open enough for 3rd parties to consider making their own boards??
I hope they make the bezels of the display thinner in the next model , that bottom chin is soo thick ! ik there's probably some hardware limitations that prevents them from doing that rn but hopeful they can solve that .
Hope they keep doing this for the foreseeable future and put a dent to hard-to-repair alternatives from other brands that conveniently ignore the problem of electronic waste plaguing the planet.
Here's my conflict: Do I need all this power in one quite large unit to take with me, or should I get a more portable 13" Framework, buy the GPU with a (in the works) GPU chassis and use it as an eGPU over USB-C? Which one would be more economical?
"It *shouldn't* be an issue under *normal* use"
5:41 Funny enough i got email from framework themselves about the launch and pre order as the narrator said pre order .😅
It looks sick but I hope they release a single plate option for the deck. If im not going to use that real estate for extra input modules, I think all those seams really make it uglier than it could be.
very cool - Dell and HP are you watching this. . .
Man I really wanted one but I really needed a laptop a few weeks ago :(
They should have used a dual oculink connector instead of a proprietary one... That way, we could use any GPU in the future.
This is absolutely the next gaming laptop I'm buying when my razer 15 retires.
preordered and cannot wait
Great that something like this exists 💯👍
It would be lovely if they could swap for my laptop, I really love the design and idea of this laptop.
The concept has the potential to be something major in the industry. The key for Framework is to get peripherals and accessories maker to join their ecosystem. They've recently partnered Cooler Master to produce mainboard cases if they can cajole brands like Ugreen, Baseus, Vivan, Verbatim, or Logitech to join in, that'll open the door to a wider adoption
Watching this on my FW16. So happy. :)
is it true the Interposer is only rated for 50 swaps before needing replacement which would kind of ruin the concept of swapping out the dgpu for the blank if you want ultraportability or maybe utilizing that expansion bay for things like a second battery, etc?
Yes and hot swapping is not a thing, you have to remove the keyboard and other componentry to access the connection and screw it on. So it has to switch off. I'm hoping the gpu can be switched off by software
@@incognitobandito244 I wasn't referring to hot swapping, but rather swapping in general (be it powered down) and with the interposer only rated for 50 swaps, I feel framework was playing it a little lose with the marketing the past few months eluding in all promotional material the ease of switching from the dgpu to a blank,. But now looking back - all the camera angles were positioned to show the underside of the laptop making it look like it was a simple swap in/out - but I get it. Just think that was one feature people were excited about only to find out its not as initially advertised. Still hats off to Framework for what they're trying to do.
aside of my macbook, this is the only laptop i'm looking forward to own, but the pieces are super expensive tho, i understand that you're not spending $1200 every 5 years from buying a brand new laptop, but you're spending for battery replaceability and cpu upgrade that will cost the same and even more, i'm just hoping they increase the manufacturing and improve the cost of pieces, they've been in talks with other companies to make other components like cooler master, i mean, this is the future of laptops, i just stopped going for laptops when it comes to gaming or productivity in large scale, but if framework is still alive in the next 5 years, i'm sold for real
A whole laptop is still more expensive than getting the modules+ battery
@@mcslender2965 i just checked on their website and a 11th gen intel motherboard is on discount from a $1000, i'm not sure if that's cheaper than getting a laptop
@@NicolasSilvaVasault I also just checked their website, a standalone upgraded 13th gen intel i5 is 450 whille the entire laptop with the same cpu comes out to 1050. That's 600 dollars cheaper, an 11th gen framework 13 has the exact same keyboard, display, chassis etc... as this new one.
@@itsasadbunny bro they're on discount, the real price is like 700~1000 also, some of their low end cpu motherboard are way more expensive than a laptop of the same specs
@NicolasSilvaVasault They are not on discount. That is the market price. The discounted prices are even cheaper, with the 11th gen going for 300 for the base model motherboard. A similar spec xps 13 plus is 1300 vs 1500 for the framework. You do have to pay some premium for upgradability so they are the same price, wise.
this is the type of stuff that really makes me want to get a laptop but i really don't need one currently so i probably won't get one atleast for few years.
they need launch a higer performance d gpu option like rx 7800m or rx 7900m. once these option out i can see myself using this as my new worksation laptop.
I want this to succeed but so many companies in the past have done similar only to abandon the projects leaves me less than optimistic.... In particular I remember one a long time ago I think it was a Lenovo... Where you would use the dvd rom slot to swap your new GPU ( which was shapped like a dvd rom drive..).. I always thought that was a neat idea... The laptop was made and worked but they never released any GPU upgrades for the device..... So the real test isn't if a company can build it.. It's if it's willing to provide support and upgrades down the line.... So far this product has a long way to go but with a company like frameworks behind it I'm hopeful it will work this time..
really cool and all but im afraid the price of everything is out of my price range.
Once the gpu is powerful enough im in. Hope for an rtx 5xxx series happens
This is so cool I look forward to seeing more
The stacked storage could do well with Honeywell PTM 7950
A tiny company like that plus all the engineering for the swappable components give you a starting point with 16gb/512gb, but Apple STILL only give 8gb/256gb in 2023 for base model and charge you so much more for any upgrade.
Loving this! Framework FTW!
I want one. Apparently many did. batch 6, Q1 2024 already
This looks so cool. If they ever get around to adding Nvidia GPU's, it'd be really hard for me to not get one at some point. The idea is so well executed and the fact that you can buy a case to turn old mainboards into mini-desktops for like $300 is amazing
The desktop case is actually just $39 USD, if you've got spare modules to use with it (and presumably the RAM and SSD that goes with your old motherboard). And if you are willing to accept the slight jank of sticking a USB-C cable into the expansion slot, you can even technically get away without any. But with USB-C (which can also do video) and USB-A modules only costing $9 each, it's not expensive to get a more polished setup.
Another reason they went AMD instead of NVIDIA is probably because Framework has a sizeable Linux user base and NVIDIA has by far the shittiest drivers on Linux (both AMD and Intel GPUs use one driver called Mesa, and instead of contributing to Mesa like the other 2 companies NVIDIA decided to make their own closed source shittier driver)
Lack of Nvidia GPU is what’s holding me back as well. I really value DLSS for playing games on my 4k monitor or TV.
wait for the 2nd or 3rd generation
muito bom a revolução começou espero ver um futuro proximo no comercio aqui no brasil!
buying all the individual parts is much more expensive than buying the diy laptop. I would have prefered reasonable prices as long as you previously bought a diy or prebuilt laptop. Buying a diy or built framework laptop is already more expensive than regular laptops and on top of that individual parts are even more expensive. I didn't properly say it but you get the point.