This is unreal. 25 seconds in and I get the summary of the findings. This has the be the most underrated TH-cam tech channel. You guys are doing a terrific job!
And that beautiful heatmap that just lays out everything you need. Even if your laptop preferences differ from Josh, you still get all the info you need to make an informed decision right up front.
Seems that we accidentally broadcast to your equipment. There must have been some weird interference with the studio equipment that day! (And thanks for the benchmarks!)
Stellar video, you left all of the hype and unrealistic expectations aside, got to the point, and did so elegantly. You're quickly becoming my favorite laptop review channel, good job!
Yeah, when it comes to real expectations he is my favorite! Any other tech channels seems so not legit when it comes to battery life or other sides of reviews where you can't just trust numbers, but this channel. I find myself regularly waiting for Josh's videos to make a decision on what new product provides and how is it in general. I mean, in short i come here for actual correct and useful information unlike other channels where i just watch thier videos for fun or white noise(Yeah Linus i am talking about you!)
This is probably exactly what im looking for. Dont need insane multi core like on AMD but want a fast snappy GREAT battery life laptop that can handle 20 tabs open and a few applications in the background.
Hearing positive feedback about Intel is certainly gratifying as an Intel engineer. The anticipation for the forthcoming Arrow Lake SKUs is quite thrilling.
Agreed! ☺I'm eagerly awaiting delivery of my Zenbook S 14 today. My work has been in many products by now, but I am especially proud of the new firmware in our chipset PMC.
Your power efficiency methodology focuses on fully loaded, multithreaded scenarios (such as number crunching), where all cores are fully utilized and power is distributed evenly between them. Lunar Lake, having fewer cores, allocates a higher power budget per core, allowing them to run at higher clock speeds, than the 2 rivals (not counting Apple), which may result in lower efficiency in such scenarios. Since Intel Lunar Lake laptops are more likely to be used for lightly threaded applications, I would like to see a core-to-core efficiency measurement by assessing power efficiency during a single-threaded benchmark.
@@MaxP936 There was another study done by a Canadian TH-cam group. Lunar Lake was better under 30 watts. Afterwards, AMD pulled out ahead. Most office apps used rarely exceed 30 watts, so for business users Lunar Lake would be a better fit. Anything more intense, look at AMD or Apple CPUs.
This, Lunar Lake laptops, will be in high demand by the sales department, traveling auditors, and consultants with business laptops. Examples: X1 carbon, Dell Latitude 74XX, HP EliteBook 840 GX, or Lenovo ThinkPad T14 lines.
One additional point for Snapdragon and Apple Silicon is the standby time. From Phawx's review, standby on Lunar Lake has gotten better (from 20% drop over 12 hrs to 10% drop), it is still a very long way from being comparable to either Snapdragon (0.7% drop over 12 hrs) or Apple Silicon laptops. The difference can really be felt if you are doing lightweight work on the go or if you are moving around a lot in the office instead of just sitting in your cubicle all day.
Indeed, and as I understand, the converse is true as well, x86 is more efficient when under load compared to arm. And are more powerful, when voltage is sufficient and heat dissipation is good. Correct?
@@newolde1 No, that is not correct. x86 vs ARM doesn't really matter to a meaningful degree. Those are just instruction sets. Chip makers can design their chips to work better in certain scenarios, but it comes at a cost in other scenarios. x86 CPUs have generally targeted performance at the cost of the efficiency (because on desktop you don't care about battery life). Apple and Qualcomm have long been making smartphone chips where battery life is one of the most important things and so they know how to optimize for battery life.
@@lycanthoss I'm inclined to think there is also some fault with Intel and AMD as well, since if it was that universal, then shouldn't Snapdragon have that issue as well? I recall the Intel Atom line didn't burn through power during connected standby, the modern standby's predecessor, and that was due to the Atom chip design and it definitely did not have first class OEM support for BIOS and Firmware.
I don't think the conclusion of "Lunar Lake is not hot because it's not powerful" is not correct, especially basing on the multi-threaded performance. Multi-core performance basically cannot represent 99% of the real-world scenario but single-core performance can. And Lunar Lake had shown its powerful single-core performance under relatively low wattage
4 hours video test means nothing for battery life test. here's the battery tests which makes sense: - a stand by test for at least 12 hours. - a video playback until laptop shuts down. - a test while laptop is in performance mode and multiple apps are running something like ( browser with 10 tabs open, running music, having office apps open etc) - same test while running in balanced mode. i understand you can't run all of them, but 4 hours video test doesn't really help
Totally agree. I'm really tired of seeing video based testing of battery life as someone who never watches video on my laptop. Surely someone has to be able to develop a standardized approach that mimics usual use of browsing and light apps.
12:05 Pretty sure they had a video playback rundown in the video, Josh only brought up the four hour test because their findings on the newest Yoga Slim 7i were inconclusive on that test.
Qualcomm X Elite and AMD Strix Point both use TSMC N4P (a 5nm-class node) while Intel Lunar Lake has the core compute on TSMC N3B (a much better 3nm-class node). A lot of the performance and power efficiency delta is because Intel chose a much more expensive and advanced process node from TSMC. If Qualcomm and AMD were excited to massively dilute their gross margins and not make money, they too would have used TSMC N3-family for medium-sized laptop chips.
Amazing video, I really didn't expect Steve showing up in the middle lol! Had no idea you guys had contact either. Loved it! Would you think the Lunar Lake would be good for personal low-mid load webdev projects alongside casual use? I wanted a Ryzen 300 Zenbook, but I use it on my lap a lot with my hands resting on it, and I don't want the heat you feel to be an issue and burn myself lol. Just want something fairly light, premium and portable without thinking about battery too much. Thanks a lot Team! (PS: Will you review the Omnibook 14 Ultra with the Ryzen 375 any time soon?)
@Burbanana if it was me, I'd get a MacBook Air M3. Better trackpad for using on my lap like you said. Yes, I do think Lunar Lake will be fine for what you discuss so long as the project you are developing is fairly simple. As you said, it's low to mid load. I'd get the Zenbook over the Aura personally.
@Burbanana Yes, I did. Now that the Air M3 has been out for a while, that is pretty easy to get at the price point these are being sold at. Heck, I bought one to help us make this video for you all!
I'm kind of shocked by Intel's naming scheme here. It like... makes sense, each number serves a greater purpose than just making people think bigger number equals better. You can actually glean the specs of the machine from the processor model number. Wow! Now, can Intel stick with this scheme for more than two generations?
@@Kumoiwa More specs are determined by the CPU package now, so more SKUs required for each permutation. With RAM now integrated into the CPU package, they need to double the SKU count to have options for 16GB and 32GB. Then double again for each of the two iGPU options.
Awesome. The SoC comparison here is the best anyone has done to date. Superb. 👊🏽👏🏽👍🏽 For Windows laptops, general users should go Lunar Lake, power users Zen 5 or wait for Arrow Lake. (Although I expect Zen 5 will be more efficient than Arrow Lake and probably the cheaper option too.)
@@IvoPavlik AMD make better parts but then fail to supply them to the OEMs. In previous years there have often been too few laptops available with Ryzen chips even though they clearly outperformed their Intel competition in reviews. The range of laptops that are currently available at the Zen 5 launch is already much better than in previous years so I’m pretty optimistic we’ll see more Zen 5 laptop releases over the next 4 months. I’ve heard Intel has supply issues with Lunar Lake too and Arrow Lake is only getting a paper launch this year according to the gossip so AMD have a clear run at the market. Here’s hoping… 😬
Instead of showing the faces of the presenters, what about giving us 1 more second for each chart, to be able to read them. Even pressing pause is not feasible for how quickly they switch frames.
To me it’s still surprising that a FIRST gen Qualcomm chip of exactly one year ago and older manufacturing process is up there competing with the big guys. Most of you don’t understand this and just talk as soccer fans. Think about the engineering effort to create this SoCs and the entire ecosystem behind them. Also clearly Qualcomm focused on NPU and gave up GPU in this first gen. It would be nice to see some tests on that given they’re all copilot+ PCs compatible.
@@Trickey2413 what? I just would like to see related comparisons across these platforms (stop deleting comments that you don’t like or highlight BS - you know )
Did you account for the RAM power consumption in your scatterplot? Because that is part of the power consumption for Lunar Lake, but not for other Windows PCs.
Awesome video! With Lunar Lake it seems Intel decided to focus on energy efficiency and GPU performance over multicore processor performance. I hope their gamble pays off. With this and Ryzen AI there is no reason to get a Qualcomm Snapdragon X laptop.
Good comparison! But unfortunately there is just the 365. It would be more interesting with the 370 or the 375 because they have more cores better gpu und clock speed.
That heat-map is so useful! These guys are pros, effectively using different graphs to show us the useful info. The amount of work done behind the scenes really shows in these videos. Thank you!
Thanks for this video...exactly what i was looking for! All these options have made it just so confusing for a buyer and its strange that there arent too many videos like yours today. Youve earned yourself a loyal subscriber!
Best test I have ever seen. No stupid simplifications, but correct explanations of especially the seemingly contradictory points ! You are great. Only, I would have seen more details of the compared M3 Pro and Max and not only M3 used in Mac Air. But you mentioned it partly, so it is ok.
18 minutes of video and I'm watching it for 2 hours. THIS is exactly what I expected from Linus tech lab improvements and it's impressive to see from a relatively small creator. Thanks for the great work and quality.
My first time stumbling upon this channel. Very impressive in it's thoroghness and presentation and giving good context for the conclusions. And seeing Steve from GN gives it street cred. Subbed.
Excellent work you guys. Easily digestable, no-nonsense, hats off! :) Especially the table showing the pro's and con's of all related rivaling models is a joy to see, and I love how you explain in layman's terms how you came to the results shown in the numerous charts. The only piece of (hopefully constructive ;)) feedback I would like to give is that when talking about gaming results, I think nothing goes above actual real-world tests, not synthetic benchmarks. I understand your rationale for wanting to compare apples-to-apples (and thus running 3Dmark benchmarks), but I think in the end this is not what is important to people wanting to game. I think they simply would like to know: how much FPS will my game run at? :) Thus running some actual games (maybe 4 or 5 of the currently most played?) would be more indicative and give more realistic results.
@@kubotite9168 Strong hardware without software support then it's useless. When most mainstream software gets an arm version then they can charge the same as x86 laptops.
Fantastic video from all of you! I'm now confused as to whether I want a Zen 5 or Lunar Lake laptop, since I was previously dead set on Zen 5. I'm amazed that Lunar Lake does so well in thermals, battery, general CPU performance, and crushes it in graphics. I figured Zen 5 would have the edge in graphics, but it seems maybe not. I'll have to do more research to see how could the Intel drivers are in Linux, since that's what I'd like the laptop for. Thanks again for the review. Definitely the best Lunar Lake overview video out there.
Lunar lake doesn't have better battery life because they are slower. It's clear if you look just at cpu power consumption, lunar lake is not too competitive. But what makes lunar lake have such great battery life is overall package power- integrated memory, lower power island, efficient integrated graphics that shares the system memory directly. It's obvious the "p core" is not much different than meteor lake, but the e core is better
Should i buy an Asus Zenbook s16 with the AMD processors or wait a few months for the Intel version? I'm at 9th grade and looking forward to becoming a software developer.
depends on what you learning, if you are not going to game dev, if you just learn HTML, JS, CSS, Python, C++, etc. any thing is okay. those libraries, codes you run are not any thing CPU or GPU intensive. possibly get Intel , AMD, maybe Macbook is fine if you know what you doing. if you do Java, Android, possibly go for 32gb ram is better. if you do game dev, best get one with good GPU, especially UE5, you may want 64gb ram, better get a gaming laptop. or desktop. if you do iOS, Macbook 32/36gb ram or more. my son has a Macbook air m1 16gb, he was able to run Roblox Studio without issue. UE4 was a bit slow.. with browser open with Udemy videos. he had Macbook air m1 8gb but i recall things were crashing or something (yeah he was 9 years old that time and he basically self taught )
Do the power efficiency metrics account for the on-package memory of lunarlake and the m3? I'd expect actual power usage is a couple of watts lower factoring in that it also includes the memory, unlike xelite or ai300. Is this another factor in why the battery life test was so much better than the efficiency test
A few months ago, I was on the edge of purchasing a Snapdragon laptop, but Josh convinced me that it was mostly hype. I'm super grateful because I'm about to purchase a zenbook s14 based on this video - now I'll have great battery, decent gaming, and max compatibility. If I had purchased a snapdragon, I would have only had great battery, no gaming, and limited compatibility. Thanks, Josh!
Hey! I'm considering buying a Zenbook S14. How is it for you so far? I've heard mixed things about the battery and the display (specifically, that it's extremely reflective, like a mirror).
@genericereal I love the zenbook s14! Yesterday, I started playing path of exile 2, and was getting amazing framerates in high graphics quality settings. I bring it to work with me everyday because it's so thin and light that I barely feel it in my bag. It has never crashed, and has been extremely snappy in my applications such as Photoshop, Excel, word, VS code, and web browsing. The only bad thing that I've noticed about it is that the battery will completely drain over time in sleep mode. As such, if I know that I'm not going to use it for half a day or more, I have it set to power button activates hibernate. Basically it's a very thin and portable laptop that allows me to play the games I want to play and do my work without needing to feel tethered to power since the battery life is so outstanding. I purchased it because I knew that the games I play are not too graphically intensive, and that the weaker multi-core performance would be okay for the applications that I use.
@genericereal oh about the mirror panel. Yes, it's reflective but it depends most on where you use it. I haven't even noticed it, and the OLED is gorgeous. I constantly have people asking about my laptop because the display and shell looks great.
@@Catelynmeow Glad to hear that the OLED is beautiful-this would be my first time using an OLED laptop so I was unsure. I like to work in dark spaces but have come to like working in cafes, which have more light. Thanks for your input!
I am watching this video on a 125u laptop, the best experience I have among Intel 12-13th, AMD 4000-6000 laptops. Simply because it is quieter/cooler than others for my light-use case (watching youtube and local videos, play music, text editing).
Just a note the lunar lake laptop is using oled screens which use way more power. The lcd dell xps 13 got nearly double the battery life of the oled version, both lunar lake.
@Frozoken are you sure they are at the same resolution? OLEDs on laptops are usually at crazy high ppi. Also, OLEDs mostly consume power when showing white, when viewing colorful media and black UIs they use close to nothing.
@adylutai10 No they aren't they lcd is 1080p while the oled is 1440p but that's no where close to enough to account for the fact that the lcd is literally getting twice the battery life.
I’m sorry, but how does the snapdragon have similar graphics performance to Zen5… I’ve seen countless other reviewers say it’s just about half of zen 5
Data point: For some reason at 8:23 I perceived the left side of the chart as being highlighted, rather than blocked out, and that was confusing for a moment! That chart is still a bit unintuitive, but I appreciate all the effort you are putting into charting strats. The heat map is a great addition!
If AMD and Intel keep this up we might see alround incredible laptops next year. Honestly the battery life numbers on Lunar Lake alone make me want to switch. I just can't deal with 4-5h of actual battery life after having used a Macbook.
a brief comment you made merits reiterating. So many of these laptops have poor touchpads. This is what steered me on my recent laptop purchase. I'm a reformed Thinkpad user that adored the trackpoint, but was enticed to switch to touchpads by my mac. As a result, I ended up replacing my X1 Carbon (an otherwise great machine), with a huawei matebook because it has a great haptic touchpad (like the mac). It's very hard to find good haptic windows laptops. Mechanical touchpads no longer cut it.
We're fortunate to have Josh on TH-cam. I enjoyed this review and comparison. As for Lunar Lake, a solid alternative for light to medium ultrabook users.
Hi Josh. Thanks a lot for your very in-depth video and analysis. I am about to buy a laptop and I was wondering if the asus s14 with lunar lake would be good for 3D modeling with Solidworks and demanding cpu tasks with Matlab and finite element codes.. Just wondering if I should go for a zephirus g14 instead. Thanks a lot
Thanks so much for that intial table! It's amazing to see how insane the intel comeback could be as long as they don't screw up! Hopefully all this competition will drive down the prices of these laptops to the point where I would consider buying one :)
One small misconception I'd like to correct - CPU temperature is completely irrelevant to the laptop surface temperature. You can test this, by adding a thin piece of plastic between the CPU and the heat sink. The CPU temperature will shoot up, but the laptop will not heat up. Why? Because the heat isn't transferred from the CPU to the heat sink. The question isn't the CPU temperature, it's the entirety of the thermal solution, the CPU could run at 200C (if the silicon would tolerate it) while drawing only 25W and the laptop could still be cool. Simply put, the CPU temperature is not directly determined by any such factors, nor is it directly determining any other factors relevant to this. The main question is how many watts the CPU produces and can dissipate through the thermal solution, and how well that thermal load is insulated from the chassis. As long as this is balanced well, the laptop can be cool.
I am truly loving your videos and you are truly becoming my go to for reviews for laptops and all thinigs personal computing. The production and the "For consumers" attitude is just fab and effective for me. Loe it. I am looking to see how I refresh my family's tech and your vids are proving incredibly useful. We are a surface home and it works really well for us. I am looking forward to what Surface does with the new intel chips on their high end laptops. The snapdragon chips on the surface pro devices look good too. Please keep doing what you do and your team are great too. Looking forward to checking out your other channel.
I bought a Qualcomm Copilot PC. Excellent machine. Quick response, battery life was super, screen was excellent, keyboard crisp, trackpad accurate. You could be fooled into thinking you were using a new M MacBook. Then I went to plug in my audio interface to do some audio recording. No compatibility. This is a basic USB interface from 2021. The driver has been around since USB 2.0. No manufacturer is responsible for a new universal version. I felt like I was using Linux circa 2000 or Windows circa 1995. I am returning the machine tomorrow. Meh. It's 2024. Stuff needs to "just work." I'll buy another Mac or Wintel machine if I feel the need.
Lunar lake hands down. Unless your code depends on using pthreads library i don't think you need zen 5. You need to deep down on what your code does and the scope of your project. You want to create a website/gui apps, lunar lake. You want to create whole blender/Microsoft suite from scratch go for either meteor lake or zen 5.
@@Kumoiwa well, these are the successor of old-u series. Intel's arrow lake is for the "H/HX" series. Given the iGPU performance showing here, arrow-lake based laptops would outdo the Zen-5 in gaming - not sure on the multi-thread though.
Your the best laptop reviewer for me. Ive been in youtube for more than 17 years and ur the best one ive found.. No BS just straight to the point review.
Well done and detailed review of the Intel chip which users asked for since forever. Lunar Lake clearly marks a new beginning of the consumer CPUs for Intel! Now Arrow Lake is a logical next step in the evolution to even more performant and power hungry mobile and desktop Intel CPUs.
Your way of measuring efficiency is really interesting, but may be misrepresenting the efficiencies of these processors. What you measured, by comparing the Cinebench scores to the power draw can be seen as peak power efficiency. And as expected the CPUs with more cores perform better, as their more cores you have, the better you can distribute the work in a heavily parallel scenario like this benchmark. The problem come in that CPUs have efficiency curves not only at peak power and load, but also at lower loads. Kinda like the AMD desktop efficiency being bad at light loads and getting better at higher loads. In this case, AMD Qualcomm and even the old Intel CPUs perform better at this peak load scenario because they have more cores and threads to distribute the work more efficiently. Is is more efficient to run ore cores at a lower speed rather than run less cores at a higher speed etc. why a 4090 is also very efficient in its own right etc. Lunar lake is especially bad in this case, as it’s E and P cores are not on the same fabric and don’t support hyper threading, which would help in this scenario to increase the peak load efficiency. Lunar Lake is optimised for medium to lite load. At lite load it saves a lot of energy by being able to disable the ring fabric for the P cores completely and only run on the E core cluster. The same at medium and heavy single thread. It can run only on the P cores completely cluster and draw significantly lower power this way. You can compare power draw during the Cinebench single core test to see this in action. At these load levels lunar lake is incredibly efficient. Intel did this by design, as even in gaming, around 90% of all processors use fits into one of these two scenarios, a 100% loaded CPU like in Cinebench is not a realistic usage pattern. So maybe revisit your efficiency work, as especially for Laptops, the more interesting efficiency is the single core efficiency and lite load efficiency.
Did you guys confuse 125U with 125H for the Yoga 7i by any chance? Those numbers look like the 125H. I have a 125U yoga 7i, on latetst drivers and highest performance mode looks nothing like it what you have.
![Can ANY Laptop Beat a MacBook Air? [Intel vs AMD vs Snapdragon vs Apple]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/G9lRc217o1E/mqdefault.jpg)
![Can ANY Laptop Beat a MacBook Air? [Intel vs AMD vs Snapdragon vs Apple]](/img/tr.png)
🛍 Keep up with deals on our website: www.justjosh.tech/recommendations/Crazy-Deals
🏅 Zenbook S 14 (Lunar Lake): geni.us/LksAPHP
✨ Slim 7i Aura Edition (Lunar Lake): geni.us/sQUv
Will there be an S 16 for lunar lake? Likewise will there be an OLED version of the 7i?
Thanks Josh!
@@pewpewpower unsure but there needs to be. It gets too warm with amd
What i don't like is that it is overpriced wish make it will become underrated like usb c options
What i like is battery life and gpu performance
This is unreal. 25 seconds in and I get the summary of the findings.
This has the be the most underrated TH-cam tech channel.
You guys are doing a terrific job!
And that beautiful heatmap that just lays out everything you need. Even if your laptop preferences differ from Josh, you still get all the info you need to make an informed decision right up front.
@@brcosmin They seemingly work hard to achieve their success and I wish them all the luck. They deserve it.
It juat shows who sponsored the video. Intel is desperate not to become obsolete.
That was the point at which I subscribed
Seems that we accidentally broadcast to your equipment. There must have been some weird interference with the studio equipment that day!
(And thanks for the benchmarks!)
it was funny
lol
Lol
Thanks Steve
Whaaaat
Stellar video, you left all of the hype and unrealistic expectations aside, got to the point, and did so elegantly. You're quickly becoming my favorite laptop review channel, good job!
Thank you so much. We are certainly putting in the effort!
Yeah, when it comes to real expectations he is my favorite! Any other tech channels seems so not legit when it comes to battery life or other sides of reviews where you can't just trust numbers, but this channel. I find myself regularly waiting for Josh's videos to make a decision on what new product provides and how is it in general. I mean, in short i come here for actual correct and useful information unlike other channels where i just watch thier videos for fun or white noise(Yeah Linus i am talking about you!)
MD Josh def wouldn't had time to listen to the long-windedness of other channels, hence he made these so we can all feel like MD Josh :)
agree ;)
@@JustJoshTech yeah good vijjo from you n your team
This is probably exactly what im looking for. Dont need insane multi core like on AMD but want a fast snappy GREAT battery life laptop that can handle 20 tabs open and a few applications in the background.
This person is a gentleman. He tells you the facts right on. No click bait. ❤
LOL. the actual title is a clickbait and he admitted it himself in another thread here in the comments 😀
Thanks Steve!
Back to you, Steve!
Hearing positive feedback about Intel is certainly gratifying as an Intel engineer. The anticipation for the forthcoming Arrow Lake SKUs is quite thrilling.
It's great to see an Intel engineer here in the comments! How does Arrow Lake seem to be coming along?
Edit: uh...
Agreed! ☺I'm eagerly awaiting delivery of my Zenbook S 14 today. My work has been in many products by now, but I am especially proud of the new firmware in our chipset PMC.
@@auritro3903 I know just as much as you. I am not part of Client Computing Group.
Thank you for making me eat my words haha. I'm glad to see we're past noisy and low battery life laptops moving forward.
Finally Intel is back !!
This is just Lunar Lake which is extremely good, imagine Arrow Lake, it will be insane !!
Steve's cameo is the most random thing I've ever seen on this channel and I love it. 🤣
I just want say Josh as a former reviewer, and current software developer, I absolutely love and respect your work. Incredibly well done.
Your power efficiency methodology focuses on fully loaded, multithreaded scenarios (such as number crunching), where all cores are fully utilized and power is distributed evenly between them. Lunar Lake, having fewer cores, allocates a higher power budget per core, allowing them to run at higher clock speeds, than the 2 rivals (not counting Apple), which may result in lower efficiency in such scenarios. Since Intel Lunar Lake laptops are more likely to be used for lightly threaded applications, I would like to see a core-to-core efficiency measurement by assessing power efficiency during a single-threaded benchmark.
this should be interesting
True. But this was much better than their previous efficiency graphs.
This! If lunar lake's strengths are in single core why did we not see single core efficiency charts?
@@MaxP936 There was another study done by a Canadian TH-cam group. Lunar Lake was better under 30 watts. Afterwards, AMD pulled out ahead. Most office apps used rarely exceed 30 watts, so for business users Lunar Lake would be a better fit. Anything more intense, look at AMD or Apple CPUs.
This, Lunar Lake laptops, will be in high demand by the sales department, traveling auditors, and consultants with business laptops. Examples: X1 carbon, Dell Latitude 74XX, HP EliteBook 840 GX, or Lenovo ThinkPad T14 lines.
Finally Intel is back !!
This is just Lunar Lake which is extremely good, imagine Arrow Lake, it will be insane !!
One additional point for Snapdragon and Apple Silicon is the standby time. From Phawx's review, standby on Lunar Lake has gotten better (from 20% drop over 12 hrs to 10% drop), it is still a very long way from being comparable to either Snapdragon (0.7% drop over 12 hrs) or Apple Silicon laptops. The difference can really be felt if you are doing lightweight work on the go or if you are moving around a lot in the office instead of just sitting in your cubicle all day.
I didnt know that, thanks for pointing out. ARM barely sips juice when idle.
Indeed, and as I understand, the converse is true as well, x86 is more efficient when under load compared to arm. And are more powerful, when voltage is sufficient and heat dissipation is good. Correct?
@@dr.muhamedv.m2991 it's the same for AMD. The problem here is Microsoft's approach to modern standby and OEMs with their BIOS/Firmware.
@@newolde1 No, that is not correct. x86 vs ARM doesn't really matter to a meaningful degree. Those are just instruction sets.
Chip makers can design their chips to work better in certain scenarios, but it comes at a cost in other scenarios. x86 CPUs have generally targeted performance at the cost of the efficiency (because on desktop you don't care about battery life). Apple and Qualcomm have long been making smartphone chips where battery life is one of the most important things and so they know how to optimize for battery life.
@@lycanthoss I'm inclined to think there is also some fault with Intel and AMD as well, since if it was that universal, then shouldn't Snapdragon have that issue as well? I recall the Intel Atom line didn't burn through power during connected standby, the modern standby's predecessor, and that was due to the Atom chip design and it definitely did not have first class OEM support for BIOS and Firmware.
I don't think the conclusion of "Lunar Lake is not hot because it's not powerful" is not correct, especially basing on the multi-threaded performance. Multi-core performance basically cannot represent 99% of the real-world scenario but single-core performance can. And Lunar Lake had shown its powerful single-core performance under relatively low wattage
Loved this video! The length is just right and using multiple presenters to share the load was great.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
Wow, 25 seconds in, and there's a beautiful table of comparison. I might have come across this channel before, but this is amazing! Subscribed!!!
4 hours video test means nothing for battery life test. here's the battery tests which makes sense:
- a stand by test for at least 12 hours.
- a video playback until laptop shuts down.
- a test while laptop is in performance mode and multiple apps are running something like ( browser with 10 tabs open, running music, having office apps open etc)
- same test while running in balanced mode.
i understand you can't run all of them, but 4 hours video test doesn't really help
+
Maybe they dont have enough time to do it.
Totally agree. I'm really tired of seeing video based testing of battery life as someone who never watches video on my laptop. Surely someone has to be able to develop a standardized approach that mimics usual use of browsing and light apps.
12:05 Pretty sure they had a video playback rundown in the video, Josh only brought up the four hour test because their findings on the newest Yoga Slim 7i were inconclusive on that test.
4:50, Steve Burk cameo was AMAZING! thanks Josh from bringing him in that short!
Heatmap is a nice addition to the review! Good to know heat and fan noise are minimal, thanks.
Heatmap shows Intel CPU is underperforming ckmpared toball others but at least running cooler than before. Nothing more.
Qualcomm X Elite and AMD Strix Point both use TSMC N4P (a 5nm-class node) while Intel Lunar Lake has the core compute on TSMC N3B (a much better 3nm-class node). A lot of the performance and power efficiency delta is because Intel chose a much more expensive and advanced process node from TSMC. If Qualcomm and AMD were excited to massively dilute their gross margins and not make money, they too would have used TSMC N3-family for medium-sized laptop chips.
Amazing video, I really didn't expect Steve showing up in the middle lol! Had no idea you guys had contact either. Loved it!
Would you think the Lunar Lake would be good for personal low-mid load webdev projects alongside casual use? I wanted a Ryzen 300 Zenbook, but I use it on my lap a lot with my hands resting on it, and I don't want the heat you feel to be an issue and burn myself lol.
Just want something fairly light, premium and portable without thinking about battery too much.
Thanks a lot Team! (PS: Will you review the Omnibook 14 Ultra with the Ryzen 375 any time soon?)
@Burbanana if it was me, I'd get a MacBook Air M3. Better trackpad for using on my lap like you said. Yes, I do think Lunar Lake will be fine for what you discuss so long as the project you are developing is fairly simple. As you said, it's low to mid load. I'd get the Zenbook over the Aura personally.
@@Burbanana yes we just got the new Omnibook in. We will have it in an upcoming video. And btw... thank you for your support!
@@JustJoshTech No thank you for being legends of the game
@@JustJoshTech Interesting, I assume you mean a Macbook Air with 16GB though at least?
@Burbanana Yes, I did. Now that the Air M3 has been out for a while, that is pretty easy to get at the price point these are being sold at. Heck, I bought one to help us make this video for you all!
Wow so much information, I can't even imagine the amount of research that goes into a video like this.
Definitely a ton of people who can comfortably sacrifice multi core performance for all the other benefits Lunar Lake brings! Great work by Intel.
A big thumbup for Josh's work - the beginning map is very helpful.
I'm kind of shocked by Intel's naming scheme here. It like... makes sense, each number serves a greater purpose than just making people think bigger number equals better. You can actually glean the specs of the machine from the processor model number. Wow! Now, can Intel stick with this scheme for more than two generations?
I agree but why are there sooo so many SKUs when they're all 8 core low wattage?
@@Kumoiwa More specs are determined by the CPU package now, so more SKUs required for each permutation. With RAM now integrated into the CPU package, they need to double the SKU count to have options for 16GB and 32GB. Then double again for each of the two iGPU options.
It will quickly break down if having SKU:s with more memory.
Great review, you are becoming my favourite laptop reviewer, no hype, no bs, I feel respected both as a viewer and a consumer. Thank you for the work!
Thank you!!! Glad you appreciate it. On 4 hours sleep to bring you guys that video
@@JustJoshTech you dropped this crown👑
@@imtiyazhussain8873 thanks
Awesome. The SoC comparison here is the best anyone has done to date. Superb. 👊🏽👏🏽👍🏽
For Windows laptops, general users should go Lunar Lake, power users Zen 5 or wait for Arrow Lake. (Although I expect Zen 5 will be more efficient than Arrow Lake and probably the cheaper option too.)
@@AyoHues if only there were more Zen 5 options available. The current offer is abysmal.
@@IvoPavlik AMD make better parts but then fail to supply them to the OEMs. In previous years there have often been too few laptops available with Ryzen chips even though they clearly outperformed their Intel competition in reviews. The range of laptops that are currently available at the Zen 5 launch is already much better than in previous years so I’m pretty optimistic we’ll see more Zen 5 laptop releases over the next 4 months. I’ve heard Intel has supply issues with Lunar Lake too and Arrow Lake is only getting a paper launch this year according to the gossip so AMD have a clear run at the market. Here’s hoping… 😬
@@AyoHues that's sounds hopeful. Thanks for the explanation.
Lunar Lake IS Intel's laptop chip lineup. Arrow Lake is for desktops.
Instead of showing the faces of the presenters, what about giving us 1 more second for each chart, to be able to read them. Even pressing pause is not feasible for how quickly they switch frames.
To me it’s still surprising that a FIRST gen Qualcomm chip of exactly one year ago and older manufacturing process is up there competing with the big guys. Most of you don’t understand this and just talk as soccer fans. Think about the engineering effort to create this SoCs and the entire ecosystem behind them. Also clearly Qualcomm focused on NPU and gave up GPU in this first gen. It would be nice to see some tests on that given they’re all copilot+ PCs compatible.
Please don't praise Qualcomm for their npu 😂
@@Trickey2413 what? I just would like to see related comparisons between all platforms dumba$$
@@Trickey2413 what? I just would like to see related comparisons across these platforms (stop deleting comments that you don’t like or highlight BS - you know )
First Gen?
@@heickelrrx yes Snapdragon X first gen
Did you account for the RAM power consumption in your scatterplot? Because that is part of the power consumption for Lunar Lake, but not for other Windows PCs.
this is one of the most effective and coherent comparisons of anything i have seen in a long time. excellent job!
Thank you!
Awesome video! With Lunar Lake it seems Intel decided to focus on energy efficiency and GPU performance over multicore processor performance. I hope their gamble pays off. With this and Ryzen AI there is no reason to get a Qualcomm Snapdragon X laptop.
Good comparison! But unfortunately there is just the 365. It would be more interesting with the 370 or the 375 because they have more cores better gpu und clock speed.
Thanks for the link, just ordered the Zenbook LNL
That's my favorite imo
What does LNL stand for?
lunarlake@@AhmedFarahat2
@@AhmedFarahat2 Lunar Lake
@@JustJoshTechThe Scandinavian White is the nicer colour imho but either way, loving the ceraluminium finish. ☺️
Why are you measuring "battery % remaining" instead of Wh consumed ?
I'm glad the intel is finally doing something. To me this solves Qualcomm's software compatibility issues.
Thanks!
Thank you!
That heat-map is so useful!
These guys are pros, effectively using different graphs to show us the useful info.
The amount of work done behind the scenes really shows in these videos. Thank you!
Thanks for this video...exactly what i was looking for! All these options have made it just so confusing for a buyer and its strange that there arent too many videos like yours today. Youve earned yourself a loyal subscriber!
THIS is the question everyone wants answered!! AI is useful inasmuch as you get co pilot which is cool
Best test I have ever seen. No stupid simplifications, but correct explanations of especially the seemingly contradictory points ! You are great. Only, I would have seen more details of the compared M3 Pro and Max and not only M3 used in Mac Air. But you mentioned it partly, so it is ok.
0:24 - I like how the Zen 5 isn't completely bad at any particular thing in this graph
18 minutes of video and I'm watching it for 2 hours. THIS is exactly what I expected from Linus tech lab improvements and it's impressive to see from a relatively small creator. Thanks for the great work and quality.
Glad you liked it. Comments like yours make this all very worthwhile
My first time stumbling upon this channel. Very impressive in it's thoroghness and presentation and giving good context for the conclusions. And seeing Steve from GN gives it street cred. Subbed.
Thanks!
Excellent work you guys. Easily digestable, no-nonsense, hats off! :) Especially the table showing the pro's and con's of all related rivaling models is a joy to see, and I love how you explain in layman's terms how you came to the results shown in the numerous charts.
The only piece of (hopefully constructive ;)) feedback I would like to give is that when talking about gaming results, I think nothing goes above actual real-world tests, not synthetic benchmarks. I understand your rationale for wanting to compare apples-to-apples (and thus running 3Dmark benchmarks), but I think in the end this is not what is important to people wanting to game. I think they simply would like to know: how much FPS will my game run at? :) Thus running some actual games (maybe 4 or 5 of the currently most played?) would be more indicative and give more realistic results.
Yes, you are right. We should have added one or two game tests too. I did play games on them after all. I should have mentioned it
Qualcomm laptops should be like half the price of what they are selling right now.
It's close, some Qualcomm laptops are 30%off right now😂
I'd buy one if my software ran on it.
its a good chip tho..it just that windows and dev too lazy to support them
@@dynamiszmx They are stuck on launch prices in my country hahaha.
@@kubotite9168 Strong hardware without software support then it's useless. When most mainstream software gets an arm version then they can charge the same as x86 laptops.
Fantastic video from all of you! I'm now confused as to whether I want a Zen 5 or Lunar Lake laptop, since I was previously dead set on Zen 5. I'm amazed that Lunar Lake does so well in thermals, battery, general CPU performance, and crushes it in graphics. I figured Zen 5 would have the edge in graphics, but it seems maybe not. I'll have to do more research to see how could the Intel drivers are in Linux, since that's what I'd like the laptop for.
Thanks again for the review. Definitely the best Lunar Lake overview video out there.
What’s the power draw in idle mode for that Intel?
What an awesome review. So much detail and different ways to compare the systems.
Lunar lake doesn't have better battery life because they are slower. It's clear if you look just at cpu power consumption, lunar lake is not too competitive. But what makes lunar lake have such great battery life is overall package power- integrated memory, lower power island, efficient integrated graphics that shares the system memory directly.
It's obvious the "p core" is not much different than meteor lake, but the e core is better
Should i buy an Asus Zenbook s16 with the AMD processors or wait a few months for the Intel version? I'm at 9th grade and looking forward to becoming a software developer.
depends on what you learning, if you are not going to game dev, if you just learn HTML, JS, CSS, Python, C++, etc. any thing is okay. those libraries, codes you run are not any thing CPU or GPU intensive. possibly get Intel , AMD, maybe Macbook is fine if you know what you doing.
if you do Java, Android, possibly go for 32gb ram is better.
if you do game dev, best get one with good GPU, especially UE5, you may want 64gb ram, better get a gaming laptop. or desktop.
if you do iOS, Macbook 32/36gb ram or more.
my son has a Macbook air m1 16gb, he was able to run Roblox Studio without issue. UE4 was a bit slow.. with browser open with Udemy videos. he had Macbook air m1 8gb but i recall things were crashing or something (yeah he was 9 years old that time and he basically self taught )
Depend of your budget because intel one are more expensive. For me a long battery life is very confortable cause you don't need to bring your charger
The wild Steve appearance was dope
JOSH! How was the screen door effect on the OLED Touch screen of the zenbook? is it still there at all?
0:28 thank you for the summary
Do the power efficiency metrics account for the on-package memory of lunarlake and the m3? I'd expect actual power usage is a couple of watts lower factoring in that it also includes the memory, unlike xelite or ai300.
Is this another factor in why the battery life test was so much better than the efficiency test
Such great content!
A few months ago, I was on the edge of purchasing a Snapdragon laptop, but Josh convinced me that it was mostly hype. I'm super grateful because I'm about to purchase a zenbook s14 based on this video - now I'll have great battery, decent gaming, and max compatibility. If I had purchased a snapdragon, I would have only had great battery, no gaming, and limited compatibility. Thanks, Josh!
Hey! I'm considering buying a Zenbook S14. How is it for you so far? I've heard mixed things about the battery and the display (specifically, that it's extremely reflective, like a mirror).
@genericereal I love the zenbook s14! Yesterday, I started playing path of exile 2, and was getting amazing framerates in high graphics quality settings. I bring it to work with me everyday because it's so thin and light that I barely feel it in my bag. It has never crashed, and has been extremely snappy in my applications such as Photoshop, Excel, word, VS code, and web browsing. The only bad thing that I've noticed about it is that the battery will completely drain over time in sleep mode. As such, if I know that I'm not going to use it for half a day or more, I have it set to power button activates hibernate. Basically it's a very thin and portable laptop that allows me to play the games I want to play and do my work without needing to feel tethered to power since the battery life is so outstanding. I purchased it because I knew that the games I play are not too graphically intensive, and that the weaker multi-core performance would be okay for the applications that I use.
@genericereal oh about the mirror panel. Yes, it's reflective but it depends most on where you use it. I haven't even noticed it, and the OLED is gorgeous. I constantly have people asking about my laptop because the display and shell looks great.
@@Catelynmeow Glad to hear that the OLED is beautiful-this would be my first time using an OLED laptop so I was unsure. I like to work in dark spaces but have come to like working in cafes, which have more light. Thanks for your input!
This was an absolutely amazing video. Thank you for all the work you put in and you've gained a new subscriber!
Thank you!!!!
Thank you Josh! I was really looking for a laptop like the Zenbook S 14 you describe…so happy to see Intel coming back!
8533MHz really help the GPU for gaming and 3nm TSMC helps for everything else.
Ya TSMC has been helping both AMD and Apple for years.
Design plays a huge role too
What is the "Modes" control panel solution you show using at the 12:04 mark? How do we get it?
Actually one conclusion I have from this video is that I really should have a look at those 125U laptops again
That was our thought, too. They are very good value for what you get
I am watching this video on a 125u laptop, the best experience I have among Intel 12-13th, AMD 4000-6000 laptops. Simply because it is quieter/cooler than others for my light-use case (watching youtube and local videos, play music, text editing).
Just a note the lunar lake laptop is using oled screens which use way more power. The lcd dell xps 13 got nearly double the battery life of the oled version, both lunar lake.
@Frozoken are you sure they are at the same resolution? OLEDs on laptops are usually at crazy high ppi. Also, OLEDs mostly consume power when showing white, when viewing colorful media and black UIs they use close to nothing.
@adylutai10 No they aren't they lcd is 1080p while the oled is 1440p but that's no where close to enough to account for the fact that the lcd is literally getting twice the battery life.
How splendid is this guy?
I’m sorry, but how does the snapdragon have similar graphics performance to Zen5… I’ve seen countless other reviewers say it’s just about half of zen 5
Best Channel so far to get real insights.
Great share & breakdown so useful keep it up 💯😀
more and more integrated parts on the CPU is the way to go since most consumers don't upgrade their parts on laptop until they broke.
Data point: For some reason at 8:23 I perceived the left side of the chart as being highlighted, rather than blocked out, and that was confusing for a moment! That chart is still a bit unintuitive, but I appreciate all the effort you are putting into charting strats. The heat map is a great addition!
Great comparison video!
I appreciate the chart at the beginning. But it would have been helpful if you had told us the specs of the laptops.
I appreciate the amount of technical info provided with a good explanation for someone not in the computer world.
If AMD and Intel keep this up we might see alround incredible laptops next year. Honestly the battery life numbers on Lunar Lake alone make me want to switch. I just can't deal with 4-5h of actual battery life after having used a Macbook.
a brief comment you made merits reiterating. So many of these laptops have poor touchpads. This is what steered me on my recent laptop purchase. I'm a reformed Thinkpad user that adored the trackpoint, but was enticed to switch to touchpads by my mac. As a result, I ended up replacing my X1 Carbon (an otherwise great machine), with a huawei matebook because it has a great haptic touchpad (like the mac). It's very hard to find good haptic windows laptops. Mechanical touchpads no longer cut it.
We're fortunate to have Josh on TH-cam. I enjoyed this review and comparison.
As for Lunar Lake, a solid alternative for light to medium ultrabook users.
Came for Lunar Lake, stayed for Zen 5.
PS: Love those cameos :-)
Need to compare against the 890m.... 😑
The progress Intel has made with integrated graphics is crazy... Beating AMD Strix point even...
Hi Josh. Thanks a lot for your very in-depth video and analysis. I am about to buy a laptop and I was wondering if the asus s14 with lunar lake would be good for 3D modeling with Solidworks and demanding cpu tasks with Matlab and finite element codes.. Just wondering if I should go for a zephirus g14 instead. Thanks a lot
Thanks so much for that intial table! It's amazing to see how insane the intel comeback could be as long as they don't screw up! Hopefully all this competition will drive down the prices of these laptops to the point where I would consider buying one :)
Definitely a better balance than Snapdragon, but I'd still go for AMD Zen 5, for my needs, if I was going for a new one today.
Was about to go to sleep here in Aus, and then Josh just posted god fucken damn
Ha ha. Watch out for the epic cameo in it
One small misconception I'd like to correct - CPU temperature is completely irrelevant to the laptop surface temperature. You can test this, by adding a thin piece of plastic between the CPU and the heat sink. The CPU temperature will shoot up, but the laptop will not heat up. Why? Because the heat isn't transferred from the CPU to the heat sink. The question isn't the CPU temperature, it's the entirety of the thermal solution, the CPU could run at 200C (if the silicon would tolerate it) while drawing only 25W and the laptop could still be cool.
Simply put, the CPU temperature is not directly determined by any such factors, nor is it directly determining any other factors relevant to this. The main question is how many watts the CPU produces and can dissipate through the thermal solution, and how well that thermal load is insulated from the chassis. As long as this is balanced well, the laptop can be cool.
I am truly loving your videos and you are truly becoming my go to for reviews for laptops and all thinigs personal computing.
The production and the "For consumers" attitude is just fab and effective for me.
Loe it.
I am looking to see how I refresh my family's tech and your vids are proving incredibly useful.
We are a surface home and it works really well for us.
I am looking forward to what Surface does with the new intel chips on their high end laptops.
The snapdragon chips on the surface pro devices look good too.
Please keep doing what you do and your team are great too.
Looking forward to checking out your other channel.
Love that cameo - great video as always.
Beautiful man , with beautiful laptops
For the algorithm! Love the video. Please keep it up!
I bought a Qualcomm Copilot PC. Excellent machine. Quick response, battery life was super, screen was excellent, keyboard crisp, trackpad accurate. You could be fooled into thinking you were using a new M MacBook. Then I went to plug in my audio interface to do some audio recording. No compatibility. This is a basic USB interface from 2021. The driver has been around since USB 2.0. No manufacturer is responsible for a new universal version. I felt like I was using Linux circa 2000 or Windows circa 1995. I am returning the machine tomorrow. Meh. It's 2024. Stuff needs to "just work." I'll buy another Mac or Wintel machine if I feel the need.
Great video. I love the graphics of the tables and graphs.
Excellent video - perfectly paced and packed with the usual great points
For programming, and maybe some light gaming on the side, which would you say is better: lunar lake or zen 5?
Great video btw!
Lunar lake hands down. Unless your code depends on using pthreads library i don't think you need zen 5. You need to deep down on what your code does and the scope of your project. You want to create a website/gui apps, lunar lake. You want to create whole blender/Microsoft suite from scratch go for either meteor lake or zen 5.
Zen 5 is the most balanced option and Intel drivers are always behind when it comes to gaming compared to AMD
Zen 5 but you should change the wifi module aftermarket because it's mediatek...
Lunar Lake would be my choice. I have currently an AMD laptop and I am far from impressed by its device drivers.
@@Kumoiwa well, these are the successor of old-u series. Intel's arrow lake is for the "H/HX" series. Given the iGPU performance showing here, arrow-lake based laptops would outdo the Zen-5 in gaming - not sure on the multi-thread though.
Excellent content! Josh and his team are the best laptop reviewers on this platform by far
Your the best laptop reviewer for me. Ive been in youtube for more than 17 years and ur the best one ive found.. No BS just straight to the point review.
Nice video! But it would be better to prove game benchmarks in GAMES, not in 3DMark or things like that.
Well done and detailed review of the Intel chip which users asked for since forever. Lunar Lake clearly marks a new beginning of the consumer CPUs for Intel! Now Arrow Lake is a logical next step in the evolution to even more performant and power hungry mobile and desktop Intel CPUs.
You took a hard one on all the techtubers by releasing the stats pronto. This video was stellar all around.
Your way of measuring efficiency is really interesting, but may be misrepresenting the efficiencies of these processors. What you measured, by comparing the Cinebench scores to the power draw can be seen as peak power efficiency. And as expected the CPUs with more cores perform better, as their more cores you have, the better you can distribute the work in a heavily parallel scenario like this benchmark.
The problem come in that CPUs have efficiency curves not only at peak power and load, but also at lower loads. Kinda like the AMD desktop efficiency being bad at light loads and getting better at higher loads. In this case, AMD Qualcomm and even the old Intel CPUs perform better at this peak load scenario because they have more cores and threads to distribute the work more efficiently. Is is more efficient to run ore cores at a lower speed rather than run less cores at a higher speed etc. why a 4090 is also very efficient in its own right etc. Lunar lake is especially bad in this case, as it’s E and P cores are not on the same fabric and don’t support hyper threading, which would help in this scenario to increase the peak load efficiency. Lunar Lake is optimised for medium to lite load. At lite load it saves a lot of energy by being able to disable the ring fabric for the P cores completely and only run on the E core cluster. The same at medium and heavy single thread. It can run only on the P cores completely cluster and draw significantly lower power this way. You can compare power draw during the Cinebench single core test to see this in action. At these load levels lunar lake is incredibly efficient. Intel did this by design, as even in gaming, around 90% of all processors use fits into one of these two scenarios, a 100% loaded CPU like in Cinebench is not a realistic usage pattern.
So maybe revisit your efficiency work, as especially for Laptops, the more interesting efficiency is the single core efficiency and lite load efficiency.
Did you guys confuse 125U with 125H for the Yoga 7i by any chance? Those numbers look like the 125H. I have a 125U yoga 7i, on latetst drivers and highest performance mode looks nothing like it what you have.
Bro you’re videos are so great thanks for just getting to the poiny
stunning quality video josh. Bravo!