There are thousands of discussions, tutorials, etc., on TH-cam. Joe, you are hands down one of the best. Thank you for all the knowledge and in-depth thought behind the systems you preach (that goes for all the videos to be honest). I'd love to get out and go fishing with you one day!
Joe and Kelly Galloup are the two best fly fishing experts on TH-cam by a wide margin. Their knowledge and generosity in sharing that with us mere mortal fly fishers are greatly appreciated. Thank you Joe! You are Fly Fishing Jesus improving our lives.
Thanks so much, how kind of you! Being compared to Kelly is flattering. That guy holds court and I love it. I was in his shop one time just listening as a fly on the wall. He was awesome with customers. Just so real.
Thanks! Yes, been trying to get more folks tuned in for a long time. I love nothing more than seeing DIY anglers have some success with enjoyable strategies.
Hi, you are spot on with your comments, I use to get my yarn off the fences where the sheep had rubbed themselves. This was untreated wool that still had the natural lanolin and was the inspiration for NZ Indicators. Your choice of fly is the one fly that I could use anywhere in NZ and catch fish. It just works! Cheers mate. Harera
I've dabbled with a lot of stuff, for me this allows me to fish the lightest possible rig and still get deep enough to be effective. That nymph straight DROPS.
Yes good tip, I do a "loop to loop" or just clinch to a P Loop as well. I don't always have T Rings in my bag and historically didn't use them. Those little suckers are pretty darn handy though! Thanks for watching.
I have, and it's a super system. I don't move my indicators so it's not been something that is important. I want exclusively my finest tippet below my indicator so locking it in works great for me.
This time of year when it's skinny water and spooky fish nz indicator works great. You fish a nz long enough eventually you're tying up your mayflies to look like an nz with a hook and dropping nymphs off that. I speak from experience, lol.
Great stuff! I've never used a bobber and zooming through a drift never made sense to me. I use yarn or a foam stimulator or just go tight line with a very light setup. The yakima is historically low right now, fishing is fantastic! Tight lines
Great question, I am using mono for everything ABOVE the indicator as it floats better and makes mending much easier. From the indicator down all FC! Thanks for asking, good question.
Those are Costa Saltbreak in the green mirror lens. They've been very durable, I use a Violet Mirror Bajio in low light. redsflyfishing.com/products/costa-saltbreak-polarized-sunglasses
Yes, especially if you want your indicator to be able to pull your fly up off the bottom without giving you a false strike reading. Keep in mind you want that indicator small and sparse if possible, the casting and it's ability to dry out and wick water between casts is much better.
I do have one more question- if you wanted to make your own butt section to the tippet ring, what kind of material would you use? IE maxima chameleon/ultra green
Thank you! Yes it still works, absolutely. It's important to note that the loop knot you'll only do once, when you setup the butt section so the "tippet" will just be a quick clinch knot each time.
This is a superior video, Joe, full of extremely valuable information. However, one one small point, I don't agree with you. Several times in the video, you say that a nymph will be hanging directly below the yarn indicator. Unless one is fishing essentially still water, that isn't likely. Much more likely is that the faster water on the surface pulls the indicator downstream ahead of the nymph, which is in slower water (near the bottom, or mid-column). The angle from indicator to nymph is rarely 90 degrees; usually, it's more like 45.
Sure yes good point, the "goal" being 90 degrees and it's very possible if you get your weight/drift done right. If you can put some upstream back tension on the indicator and the nymph anchors it in the yarn ideally will float slower than the current essentially letting the current slip under the indicator somewhat "skating" as the nymph holds it back. It's part of what makes yarn so great, the nymph will actually control the speed of the drift rather than the indicator doing the driving.
That's a valid question, I fish HD rigs a lot but I don't think its quite as productive myself. the yarn is so delicately floating on the surface in my opinion it tends to just wander and fish the nymph more naturally. Of course it depends on many variables, weight of nymph being presented, size of dry necessary to suspend that nymph, how deep you want to setup etc. If I'm committed to fishing suspended nymphs, I'm going to set it up like this. I can't necessarily define all the nuances as to "why" it gets bit more but I feel like it just does.
At around 19:00, you said “ we can control where these indicators wander and flare.” You lost me. what does flare mean? Wander? I thought, once the indicator is on the water, the ideal is dead drift. Are you talking about something else?
Good question, by wander I want it to follow all the seamlines independently of my line so it will speed up, slow down, wander into a small backeddy etc. The "flare" is when I make a cast I can get the indicator to slow down in the air, parachute, or "flare" and I can get it to land in a strategic position in relation to the fly. You want this to happen right when the fly hits the water, the indicator slowly flutters down and if you're savvy you can manipulate where the indicator lands. Like right over the top, upstream, downstream, etc. Hope this explains, very technical rig and extremely fishy.
If you tell me X is better than Y, I'll either forget or ignore the advice. Tell me why X is better than Y, and you have taught me something I'll remember. Thanks Joe !!!!!
If the rod were just for this, on big open water it would be 10' 4 weight or 10' 3 weight. 9' if I'm dealing with brush and technical casting. 9'6" 4 weight would be good blend, but the 9' 5 or 9' 4's are good too. 6 weights are bit on the strong side.
Question. Say medium fast water 3ft deep. How long of a tippet? 1 times the depth or 1.5 times depth? You kinda mentioned an average depth for the day?
Great question, I tend to run the same as the depth of the water. I like the keep my flies juuuuussstttt. off the bottom with an indicator rig. I don't like to have a bunch of false sets with an indicator rig.
Great Video, thanks! I'm taking my mom (82) steelhead fishing in a couple weeks, can I make yarn work for steelhead? I rather not have her cast a bobber and her swinging days have passed... thanks!
Absolutely, the weight of your rig becomes the issue but historically I guided a lot with yarn indicators for steelhead with a big stonefly nymph and a glo bug. The yarn won't pull the flies up off the bottom like an Air Lock type indicator but it certainly drifts better.
awesome video. question: i’ve got a bunch of polypro yarn (macrame). any reason I need to get the NZ wool? and does the overhand knot ever come “loose” and let out fibers? thanks.
The Dorsey system is slick, but this is how I personally roll. Floatant is a must if you want the nymph to be able to move that indicator around. The lighter it is, the better. No water weight IMO.
In America people are too sloppy and don’t thrive for perfection or mastery , as long they can catch fish and quantities is all that matters. It’s a cultural thing. I do dry fly strictly and my friends think that I am wasting the my time, but they can’t never understand what’s going on. If I catch fish in one type of set up then I ask myself why do it again? If I already know that a rig works then I have the tendency of redesign other type of rigs, and to me that’s the fun. A kindergarten boy can out fish any one there for catching fish not difficult so to me it’s the creative part of flyfishing that I enjoy.😂😂😂
Great comment. I read this to the guys I share the office with, mastery is a rare thing. I'm working on that myself knowing full well I'll never quite get there but the pursuit is where the joy is.
Well thanks for the response all the way from NZ, what I mean is that you chaps wouldn't be using a "bobber" in NZ. You bet on the tight lining, but if you are going to suspend a nymph on longer casts you sure as heck aren't doing it with a Thingamabobber, Air Lock, Oros, etc.
There are thousands of discussions, tutorials, etc., on TH-cam. Joe, you are hands down one of the best. Thank you for all the knowledge and in-depth thought behind the systems you preach (that goes for all the videos to be honest). I'd love to get out and go fishing with you one day!
Thank you! that is extremely kind of you.
Joe and Kelly Galloup are the two best fly fishing experts on TH-cam by a wide margin. Their knowledge and generosity in sharing that with us mere mortal fly fishers are greatly appreciated. Thank you Joe! You are Fly Fishing Jesus improving our lives.
Thanks so much, how kind of you! Being compared to Kelly is flattering. That guy holds court and I love it. I was in his shop one time just listening as a fly on the wall. He was awesome with customers. Just so real.
I’m going to try this. Like a nice, quiet presentation
I ❤ this system you’ve been preaching this 1 for years - thanks Joe !
Thanks! Yes, been trying to get more folks tuned in for a long time. I love nothing more than seeing DIY anglers have some success with enjoyable strategies.
Hi, you are spot on with your comments, I use to get my yarn off the fences where the sheep had rubbed themselves. This was untreated wool that still had the natural lanolin and was the inspiration for NZ Indicators. Your choice of fly is the one fly that I could use anywhere in NZ and catch fish. It just works! Cheers mate. Harera
Wonderful! Thanks for the watch.
Tried this today on the Itchen - a chalk stream in the uk- grayling season here and I had five in just a few hours! Superb rig
Great to hear!
Good stuff. Like the set up.
Thanks KG!
I like tying new techniques ….tippet ring hinge idea looks like a keeper ..
I've dabbled with a lot of stuff, for me this allows me to fish the lightest possible rig and still get deep enough to be effective. That nymph straight DROPS.
Love to hinge my yarn indicators, not usually with a tippet ring. A small perfection loop is usable. I even do this with trout spey rigs sometimes.
Yes good tip, I do a "loop to loop" or just clinch to a P Loop as well. I don't always have T Rings in my bag and historically didn't use them. Those little suckers are pretty darn handy though! Thanks for watching.
Very well explained Joe. I never used the yarn but I need to spend some time with it. Thank you.
This is the best indicator system out there
Thanks! It's served me well. I've dabbled with it all and this is the one that I've always gravitated back to.
Have you tried the Dorsey indicator system, where the yarn is attached using a dental rubber band? Makes them re-positional.
Dorsey for sure. It's not fancy, doesn't cost much, easy to set up and seensitive.
I have, and it's a super system. I don't move my indicators so it's not been something that is important. I want exclusively my finest tippet below my indicator so locking it in works great for me.
This time of year when it's skinny water and spooky fish nz indicator works great. You fish a nz long enough eventually you're tying up your mayflies to look like an nz with a hook and dropping nymphs off that. I speak from experience, lol.
Great tip. Incognito indicator.
Excellent egg strategy.
Great stuff! I've never used a bobber and zooming through a drift never made sense to me. I use yarn or a foam stimulator or just go tight line with a very light setup. The yakima is historically low right now, fishing is fantastic!
Tight lines
Good input, yes it is fishing quite well right now!
This is some great info!
Glad you think so, thanks for watching and good vibes.
Are you using fluorocarbon for your leader and how long is your leader to the hinged tippet ring?
Great question, I am using mono for everything ABOVE the indicator as it floats better and makes mending much easier. From the indicator down all FC! Thanks for asking, good question.
Great content, as usual. Thanks for sharing! Question: what sunglasses are you wearing? I’m in the market for some new glasses. Thanks! 🎣
Those are Costa Saltbreak in the green mirror lens. They've been very durable, I use a Violet Mirror Bajio in low light. redsflyfishing.com/products/costa-saltbreak-polarized-sunglasses
Would you recommend the xtra large New Zealand indicator kit for size 10/12 pats rubber legs or wooly buggers?
Yes, especially if you want your indicator to be able to pull your fly up off the bottom without giving you a false strike reading. Keep in mind you want that indicator small and sparse if possible, the casting and it's ability to dry out and wick water between casts is much better.
I do have one more question- if you wanted to make your own butt section to the tippet ring, what kind of material would you use? IE maxima chameleon/ultra green
Great video Joe! Would the hinge work if you tied your leader directly to the tippet ring instead of a loop knot to tippet ring?
Thank you! Yes it still works, absolutely. It's important to note that the loop knot you'll only do once, when you setup the butt section so the "tippet" will just be a quick clinch knot each time.
Awesome Joe Tim NZ
Thanks Tim for the good vibes from the other side of the globe! Cheers!
This is a superior video, Joe, full of extremely valuable information. However, one one small point, I don't agree with you. Several times in the video, you say that a nymph will be hanging directly below the yarn indicator. Unless one is fishing essentially still water, that isn't likely. Much more likely is that the faster water on the surface pulls the indicator downstream ahead of the nymph, which is in slower water (near the bottom, or mid-column). The angle from indicator to nymph is rarely 90 degrees; usually, it's more like 45.
Sure yes good point, the "goal" being 90 degrees and it's very possible if you get your weight/drift done right. If you can put some upstream back tension on the indicator and the nymph anchors it in the yarn ideally will float slower than the current essentially letting the current slip under the indicator somewhat "skating" as the nymph holds it back. It's part of what makes yarn so great, the nymph will actually control the speed of the drift rather than the indicator doing the driving.
How about dry dropper, doesn’t that cover more bases?😊
That's a valid question, I fish HD rigs a lot but I don't think its quite as productive myself. the yarn is so delicately floating on the surface in my opinion it tends to just wander and fish the nymph more naturally. Of course it depends on many variables, weight of nymph being presented, size of dry necessary to suspend that nymph, how deep you want to setup etc. If I'm committed to fishing suspended nymphs, I'm going to set it up like this. I can't necessarily define all the nuances as to "why" it gets bit more but I feel like it just does.
At around 19:00, you said “ we can control where these indicators wander and flare.” You lost me. what does flare mean? Wander? I thought, once the indicator is on the water, the ideal is dead drift. Are you talking about something else?
Good question, by wander I want it to follow all the seamlines independently of my line so it will speed up, slow down, wander into a small backeddy etc. The "flare" is when I make a cast I can get the indicator to slow down in the air, parachute, or "flare" and I can get it to land in a strategic position in relation to the fly. You want this to happen right when the fly hits the water, the indicator slowly flutters down and if you're savvy you can manipulate where the indicator lands. Like right over the top, upstream, downstream, etc. Hope this explains, very technical rig and extremely fishy.
If you tell me X is better than Y, I'll either forget or ignore the advice. Tell me why X is better than Y, and you have taught me something I'll remember. Thanks Joe !!!!!
Great baseline there, appreciate the props.
Great video. Quick question, what length of rod do you recommend for strike indicator fishing for wading?
If the rod were just for this, on big open water it would be 10' 4 weight or 10' 3 weight. 9' if I'm dealing with brush and technical casting. 9'6" 4 weight would be good blend, but the 9' 5 or 9' 4's are good too. 6 weights are bit on the strong side.
Question. Say medium fast water 3ft deep. How long of a tippet? 1 times the depth or 1.5 times depth? You kinda mentioned an average depth for the day?
Great question, I tend to run the same as the depth of the water. I like the keep my flies juuuuussstttt. off the bottom with an indicator rig. I don't like to have a bunch of false sets with an indicator rig.
Great Video, thanks! I'm taking my mom (82) steelhead fishing in a couple weeks, can I make yarn work for steelhead? I rather not have her cast a bobber and her swinging days have passed... thanks!
Absolutely, the weight of your rig becomes the issue but historically I guided a lot with yarn indicators for steelhead with a big stonefly nymph and a glo bug. The yarn won't pull the flies up off the bottom like an Air Lock type indicator but it certainly drifts better.
Yarn is a nymphers best friend.
Word!
awesome video. question: i’ve got a bunch of polypro yarn (macrame). any reason I need to get the NZ wool? and does the overhand knot ever come “loose” and let out fibers? thanks.
Macrame yarn and an orthodontic rubber band. Pat Dorsey's system. You'll be on to fish in no time.
Poly is awesome, you can use synthetics. I use both just use what you have!
Are you typically using light long rods for this?
Yes often times I am, but my 9' 5 weights are great but a 9' 4 or my 10'8" 3 weight Beulah is super.
You are the only person that has ever said you put floatant on the wool i indicator. Doraey indicators are better though.
The Dorsey system is slick, but this is how I personally roll. Floatant is a must if you want the nymph to be able to move that indicator around. The lighter it is, the better. No water weight IMO.
In America people are too sloppy and don’t thrive for perfection or mastery , as long they can catch fish and quantities is all that matters. It’s a cultural thing. I do dry fly strictly and my friends think that I am wasting the my time, but they can’t never understand what’s going on. If I catch fish in one type of set up then I ask myself why do it again? If I already know that a rig works then I have the tendency of redesign other type of rigs, and to me that’s the fun. A kindergarten boy can out fish any one there for catching fish not difficult so to me it’s the creative part of flyfishing that I enjoy.😂😂😂
Great comment. I read this to the guys I share the office with, mastery is a rare thing. I'm working on that myself knowing full well I'll never quite get there but the pursuit is where the joy is.
Oh my sides😂😂😂 “in NZ they only fish yarn indicators” ROFLMFAO
Here in the Central North Island, Euro or drop shot nymphing is waaaay more successful
Well thanks for the response all the way from NZ, what I mean is that you chaps wouldn't be using a "bobber" in NZ. You bet on the tight lining, but if you are going to suspend a nymph on longer casts you sure as heck aren't doing it with a Thingamabobber, Air Lock, Oros, etc.
Indeed 😂. Not least because thingamabobbers are illegal on fly fishing waters in NZ
Nah, I prefer euro nymphing