@@ironclad-m3q but if you already have good first 3 substat rolls on that certain echo, i think it would be better to just stick to lvl 20 for the mean time since you already got what you wanted/needed. lvl 20 to 25 exp cost is just insane... 60k worth of exp to waste. getting crit dmg/rate in your first 3 rolls is already good. would be ideal to stop at lvl 20 since you already have the good ones. but if you have a lot of excess echo exp materials to use, then you do you. but 60k exp is like = 12 gold/premium echo exp materials
I'm currently UL 46 and here are a few tips for you guys :- Try to get at least one crit sub-stat on each of your echoes. You can be picky with the 4 cost and 1 cost echoes (because they're abundant on the map) by only leveling them up to +5 until you get a crit sub stat. If it doesn't roll to crit you can simply move on and feed it to the next one. You can be more picky trying to fish 2 crit sub-stats in the first two rolls but it's not advised coz I've done it myself (a lot) and wasted way too much exp and tuners (it was not worth it). You can min-max later in the game but for now at least get one crit sub-stat on each and every echo. You should not be picky with the 3 cost echoes (elemental damage ones) because they're really hard to get. So try leveling them up to +15 and see if you get crit or not. If no crit then move to the next one until you get at least one crit sub-stat. Now what about leveling them to +25? If you love the character then yes go for it. The damage increase is significant. My Yinlin destroyed Mourning Aix diff 6 once I leveled up all her artifacts to +25. You can ignore the rejuvenating set for Verina. No need to level it up as mentioned in the video. If you're using atk weapon then you can level up 3 cost echoes for her (Energy recharge ones) up to +10-15. But if you're using variation then no need. I hope this helps. Comment if you have something to ask or any queries.
on the +25 upgrade do you go for crit rate and crit damage or reroll and for the +5 do you try to roll for a decent crit sub stat or do you settle with say 6.3% crit rate
@@ninuh234 focusing a high good stat roll seems to start to be extremely picky... you're playing with your mats at the end i don't think it's a good idea. only for last late game min maxing i could see that being acceptable. however it can help me decide if i what pc is better than other etc..
I Emphasize way more on CR than CD personally, i trash even piece with CD substat, i Only focus CR. i only start Keeping CD piece when i'm close to finish my gear and than the CR is starting to be way too high compared to CD. and even at this point i'm usually not really happy if it doesn't roll CR after. I like going +15 on 3 cost as u said, but also +10 on 4 cost with CR (i only go +5 on CD 4cost tho). Just because i'm really not starving when it come to Echo exp, and because you're not really losing any tuner, you can't "lose" tuner by doing "this action" instead of "that one". Any ticket to gamba a substat is 10 tuner, you just decide on which echo you put it. And considering you can +25 echo even without tuning its other stat, that's not a big problem to spread the roll. and at the same time i'm also ok to +10 CR 4cost because the increase in exp for echo is not that high at this point. and than if it roll CR on this echo i'm done, where if i don't try i have to wait for another. basicaly i do 2 roll every CR echo, where if i only do +5 i do one roll every CR echo meaning it take twice more time for the same amount of roll. So because of those reason i'm ok to take the little exp loss.
@@ninuh234 you mean going to +25 from 20? Or are you talking about the 4 cost echo with cr/cd as the main stat? I don't completely understand the first question so I'll answer the second one first. Crit sub stat is good and it doesn't matter if it's a high roll or a low roll early in the game. You can settle with a low roll and be done with it. If you keep being too picky then you won't be able to build other characters and waste a lot of resources in the process (also mentioned by the person above). So my advice would be to settle even if it's a low roll because resources are scarce in the game at least for now.
@@Devil-sama... first question was worded badly i was just trying to ask if you scrap plus +25 echoes if you dont roll both crits but now thinking about it im not sure if thats viable
HUUUUUGE This guide is incredibly useful for anyone who wants to make the most of their echo exp. Keeping note of this for future reference and also sharing with my friends. Will definitely use this to make my favourite characters as fun as possible. More people need to know about this guide!!!
I waste alot echo exp in early,from my experience to share is if the second row(lv10) could not roll crit or crit dmg can change other piece, even 3rd roll you get crit or crit dmg ,the following 4th 5th roll usually wont come with crit or crit dmg,(very low chance unless you believe miracle) and need to mention that if you get the lowest crit & crit dmg with others hp def is useless piece tho, advise new players do not too picky just start it with any crit/crit dmg with atk% to lv25, spend stamina on material maximize all skill lv would better than gamble the stats.. hope this helps
The reason I haven't pushed mid echos to lvl25 is not just because of echo exp. It's because using 10 or 20 more tuners on a piece that will be recycled feels like a waste with the 30% tuner refund rate.
@@KokkyGachasI disagree. The guy is right, especially with 3 cost echoes. The release of end game gearing (echoes) early on in this state of the game comes with a few upside and a lot of downsides. The good thing being able to prep early on at the cost of hefty amounts of tubes, shell credits, tuners and time grinding echoes with 3 cost being the most pain in the ass to get only to get suboptimal substats with a substanstial amount of spread and when that occurs, the echo is deemed unusable by many with no way to get anything out of it but feed it with lots of lost exp and 70% tuners gone down the drain.
@@Z-r0grav1ty The decision between going to 25 vs staying 20 has always been whether you can reap enough benefits from it. The same can be said for most things we purchase where there's always a trade off. Why upgrade your phone now instead of waiting 2 years for a better one at the same price?
@@KokkyGachasI mean I’m no expert but I feel like the difference there is there is no theoretical “best” phone, therefore in most cases waiting for a “better” deal with a phone doesnt really make sense because there will always be a better option later on, whereas in this case there is a definite “best case scenario” with echoes
any encore mains? (on echoes) does the resonance liberation substat benefit encore's ult? I mean when she ults, all her attacks will be counted as basic attacks...
Great vid as always. Just need a clarification: 6:45 you are saying it is good to go for +10 as you have about 10% chance to hit a roll? Isn't the % on the right most column assumes a complete roll to +25 and therefore, cumulative %? I.e. you have 10% chance to hit crit rate + crit damage in your remaining 4 substat rolls. How can that help in deciding WHEN to stop? If my interpretation of the last column is right, you should look into the probability of hitting crit rate or dmg in the NEXT roll vs. Exp/tuners invested.
Thanks alot for the comment! The reason why the probability is looking at the cumulative chance is because we are trying to work with the goal in mind. If we only consider the probability to hit a crit stat, it will favour the later rolls as there will always be less stats left in the pool to roll from. However, this does not mean we will eventually end up with double crit or even double crit+atk. By looking at the cumulative chance, we can decide when to stop based on the odds you eventually get a piece with stats you want provided if you hit a desired stat on the next roll vs the exp lost. If the odds are low even if you hit a desired stat, you will want to backtrack and get a desired stat on the previous roll instead and recycle the piece. If you wish to look at whether to stop even if you hit the crit, or if you hit then miss, you will need to cross reference 2 tables to reach a conclusion.
Guys your crit rate stat is more important than crit damage initially. Whats the point in echoes with onlu crit damage line if u have no crit rate? Id be aiming for those mid gear pieces that are good provide plenty dps but obviously not omg amazing. Not looking at figures but if u got crit rate and atck percentage thats legit a good piece for how far u are in game.
first of all, why can't we sacrifice echoes to upgrade other echoes? example, the useless 1 cost or 3 cost we are hoarding should be used to upgrade the 4 cost echoes and vise versa.
U need to look at the dev’s pov too, not just as consumer. They need to make money and the echo system is their golden duck. If u can just simply grind to level the echo, how are they going to make more money from you.
@@akmalahmad2365 have u played other similar games like Genshin or HSR or TOF? Similar to genshin's artifacts or HSR relics, players do grind alot to get the best stat items as much as possible, but non spend money just to grind especially if you already have decent relics or artifacts. The main source of money spending comes from the characters and weapons. Similarly, nobody spends money for the sake of echoes. Take me for example, I have pretty decent echoes and never spent to get those echoes. I only spent for limited chars n weapons.
@@blackblaze4830Nah. Damage type % get extremely diluted and are always worse than Attack% and even flat attack. Their should almost always be considered undesirable unless the character has 50% of it in their damage profile. Like Normal Attack for Encore, or Skill for Yinlin. They're still worse than flat attack as such, but pretty close
@@Jugement im talking about skill and ult % its give so much damage im aaying this cause i tested 25% ult damage to 0% and with just pure attack the difference is really big with the the 25% ult damage give 10k extra damage than with just attack% it just scales your base damage but a small amount not saying its bad but getting ult% is really good on burst ult like rover and yinlin (note teated this damage out put on rover cause rover has instant damage burst its not like yinlin)combo this with jianxin that gives you extra 25% ult damage your getting a lot of burst damage with just one ult
pls help me on which is better: set 1: HP: 15043 ATK: 1588 DEF: 921 Energy Regen:142% Crit rate: 75.5% Drit Damage: 240.2% set 2 HP: 15205 ATK: 1588 DEF: 921 Energy Regen:139.6% Crit rate: 97.5% Drit Damage: 181.2% set 3 HP: 14613 ATK: 1523 DEF: 1076 Energy Regen:130.4% Crit rate: 105.6% Drit Damage: 181.2%
My problem with recycling echoes is that realistically there are high chances you lose more than 25% exp. Lets say you level an echo to +10 and get crit rate and crit damage, then you commit and dump a +25 with bad rolls into it, you may end up getting only bad rolls on the last substats so then you'll need to build another echo. But still, 75% is a generous number so its not that bad
It depends on your criteria. If you are only looking for CR and CD, if you don't see at least one of them by the time you roll your second substat (+10) then you move on. However this changes when you are looking for 3 good substats or more. For example, if you want 2 of the rolls to be CR and CD and one of the rolls to be ATK%/ATK/ER then it is desirable to go all the way to +25, provided you can fulfill the requirements every step of the way. What I mean is, say you rolled flat HP and flat DEF for your first two roll, you should still try unlocking the 3rd substat, as it is still possible for you to get CR, CD, and one of the ATK5/ATK/ER rolls. But if the 3rd substat turns out to be HP%, then you stop and recycle. So essentially, you always unlock 3 substats first and see if the requirements can still be fulfilled, continue if yes, stop if no.
Nice vid. I think going 25 is only worth on pieces you that hit at least 3 good stats for character. I did this on main team average echoes, because didn't fully understand the system, around UL 30 when I hit databank 18, which was a big mistake and waste of resources. Because ultimately you gonna need to make 3 (2?) teams at least for tower and good mix of elements to choose from for different resistant mobs and I would rather spend waveplates and astrite to get resonators to 60-70 and lvl weapons + skills, rather then wasting it on on tacet fields. Yes you get fast echoes from it which is a good part but still you can farm those for free after DB 18, and you get some free ones while progressing. PS. Taoqi is the best starter core caz she eats DEF stats crit and crit damage, gets free 4 start weapon, and generally ez to pull early.
At 6:00 you listed a table where you have number of desired stats, total number of stats, number of rolls etc. why does the last row have 10 total number of stats still instead of 9?
I think you are mistaken. The total number of stats is not always 13 and reduces with every roll as what we are doing is without replacement (no dupes). The scenarios listed are where you have yet to hit either crit rate or crit dmg which is logical since if you hit crit rate/crit dmg (what u are looking for) you will naturally continue. The probabilities are trying to help us determine when it is no longer feasible to continue rolling having not yet hit the stats we are looking for. As for the number of desired outcomes, u made the mistake of simply multiplying the outcomes by 2 without considering double crit outcomes that are shared and should be subtracted which gives the desired outcomes listed in the video. Hope this explain things. Note: It should be 9 for the first scenario I prolly copied it down without checking the number of stats. Thanks for spotting.
@@KokkyGachas Actually, I realized after going through it again that you are calculating the probability of hitting the target after a roll has been completed, essentially you are analyzing each step and what's the probability of hitting your target. Where as I did it from the end goal perspective. For example at 7:00 you talked about CR and CD must be present. I looked at what's the probability of hitting the criteria if you only unlock 2 rolls, 3 rolls etc. If you unlock only 2 rolls, then both rolls must be either be CR or CD, an avg of 78 tries, 334,125 echo exp and 1,098 tuners. 3 rolls, where you are allowed 1 undesired roll, with avg of 26 tries, 287,100 echo exp and 555 tuners. 4 rolls, avg of 13 tries, 316,400 echo exp, 376 tuners. 5 rolls, avg of 7.8 tries, 385,020 echo exp, 288 tuners. As you mentioned, we get alot more echo exp compared to tuners, so it is actually desirable to go all the way to +25, provided the end condition can still be fulfilled, as it has the least amount of tuner usage, shortest "chain", but highest amount of exp needed. In 1.1 however, we are getting tuner synthesis, so that will probably change the optimal path then. Also, for the desired outcome, I was reading off the wrong column. Your numbers are right. 5 roll > 2C1*11C4 + 2C2*11C3 = 825 4 roll > 2C1*10C3 + 2C2*10C2 = 285 3 roll > 2C1*9C2 + 2C2*11C1 = 81 2 roll > 2C1*8C1 + 2C2*11C0 = 17 1 roll > 2C1*8C0 = 2
Is there any chance that the distributed substats is not the same chance for all the substats? I watch video that show statistics to get the High Roll is lower compare to Mid Roll. What about getting DEF/HP is higher than the other Substats?
I am so unlucky that with my Chixia every echo has crit rate and not crit dmg... So now I have to farm the 4 echo cost and hope to find crit dmg + crit rate + atk 😅
Or better yet, ditch this whole system and just have the mechanic to reroll the same echo pieces without having to discard the dead pieces. Saves more time and stress imo
Lord RNGesus rules above all. All must bow before him But seriously, I hate this aspect of the game. I know it's designed to entice longer gameplay, thus strengthening the game's viability/longevity. Sucks for the player who has no luck though _cough_ me _cough_
Dump the element echo that dont match the 3 cost one it just dont makes sense if you keeps it 😅 if its the non elemental set they yeah keeping all types of elements cause it might be meta at some point or good sub build for a character but yeah trashing element echo that dont match or def or hp on 4 cost or 1 cost is a routen now 😅
Idk why all talking about lack of tuners, i really lack of exp echo, still have 380 tuners, get 5 characters full 25lvl echo and building havoc rover now.
Building full +25 echo sets will always use an extremely small amount of tuners compared to exp. Many people including me are opting for less sets and more recycles to min max substats which will expand tuners faster.
@@yuuboi i don't get perfect stats and tools to level up echos are expensive and so rare , i even tried to craft them but it's just impossible all the pain for 1000xp or 100
Lately, the game has been messing with me by giving DEF or HP in the last two slots after good roll in the first three.
Statistically since ur earlier rolls are good you have a much higher chance hitting trash later on haha
@@KokkyGachas Getting one of them is okay, but two and both flat stat is just too cruel 🥲
dude same. had a level 20, 4 cost with god roll and 25 ended up flat def. 2 decent level 20, 1 costs ended with flat hp and def at 25. fuck that
@@ironclad-m3q but if you already have good first 3 substat rolls on that certain echo, i think it would be better to just stick to lvl 20 for the mean time since you already got what you wanted/needed.
lvl 20 to 25 exp cost is just insane... 60k worth of exp to waste.
getting crit dmg/rate in your first 3 rolls is already good.
would be ideal to stop at lvl 20 since you already have the good ones.
but if you have a lot of excess echo exp materials to use, then you do you.
but 60k exp is like = 12 gold/premium echo exp materials
@@Vain1 I'm maxing out Echo that are transferable to my 2nd possibly even 3rd team. That's where extra resources gonna be used anyway, right?
I'm currently UL 46 and here are a few tips for you guys :-
Try to get at least one crit sub-stat on each of your echoes. You can be picky with the 4 cost and 1 cost echoes (because they're abundant on the map) by only leveling them up to +5 until you get a crit sub stat. If it doesn't roll to crit you can simply move on and feed it to the next one. You can be more picky trying to fish 2 crit sub-stats in the first two rolls but it's not advised coz I've done it myself (a lot) and wasted way too much exp and tuners (it was not worth it). You can min-max later in the game but for now at least get one crit sub-stat on each and every echo. You should not be picky with the 3 cost echoes (elemental damage ones) because they're really hard to get. So try leveling them up to +15 and see if you get crit or not. If no crit then move to the next one until you get at least one crit sub-stat.
Now what about leveling them to +25?
If you love the character then yes go for it. The damage increase is significant. My Yinlin destroyed Mourning Aix diff 6 once I leveled up all her artifacts to +25.
You can ignore the rejuvenating set for Verina. No need to level it up as mentioned in the video. If you're using atk weapon then you can level up 3 cost echoes for her (Energy recharge ones) up to +10-15. But if you're using variation then no need.
I hope this helps. Comment if you have something to ask or any queries.
on the +25 upgrade do you go for crit rate and crit damage or reroll and for the +5 do you try to roll for a decent crit sub stat or do you settle with say 6.3% crit rate
@@ninuh234 focusing a high good stat roll seems to start to be extremely picky... you're playing with your mats at the end i don't think it's a good idea. only for last late game min maxing i could see that being acceptable. however it can help me decide if i what pc is better than other etc..
I Emphasize way more on CR than CD personally, i trash even piece with CD substat, i Only focus CR. i only start Keeping CD piece when i'm close to finish my gear and than the CR is starting to be way too high compared to CD. and even at this point i'm usually not really happy if it doesn't roll CR after.
I like going +15 on 3 cost as u said, but also +10 on 4 cost with CR (i only go +5 on CD 4cost tho). Just because i'm really not starving when it come to Echo exp, and because you're not really losing any tuner, you can't "lose" tuner by doing "this action" instead of "that one". Any ticket to gamba a substat is 10 tuner, you just decide on which echo you put it. And considering you can +25 echo even without tuning its other stat, that's not a big problem to spread the roll. and at the same time i'm also ok to +10 CR 4cost because the increase in exp for echo is not that high at this point. and than if it roll CR on this echo i'm done, where if i don't try i have to wait for another. basicaly i do 2 roll every CR echo, where if i only do +5 i do one roll every CR echo meaning it take twice more time for the same amount of roll. So because of those reason i'm ok to take the little exp loss.
@@ninuh234 you mean going to +25 from 20? Or are you talking about the 4 cost echo with cr/cd as the main stat? I don't completely understand the first question so I'll answer the second one first.
Crit sub stat is good and it doesn't matter if it's a high roll or a low roll early in the game. You can settle with a low roll and be done with it. If you keep being too picky then you won't be able to build other characters and waste a lot of resources in the process (also mentioned by the person above). So my advice would be to settle even if it's a low roll because resources are scarce in the game at least for now.
@@Devil-sama... first question was worded badly i was just trying to ask if you scrap plus +25 echoes if you dont roll both crits but now thinking about it im not sure if thats viable
HUUUUUGE
This guide is incredibly useful for anyone who wants to make the most of their echo exp. Keeping note of this for future reference and also sharing with my friends. Will definitely use this to make my favourite characters as fun as possible. More people need to know about this guide!!!
I love these type of vids with statistics, thankyou.
I waste alot echo exp in early,from my experience to share is if the second row(lv10) could not roll crit or crit dmg can change other piece,
even 3rd roll you get crit or crit dmg ,the following 4th 5th roll usually wont come with crit or crit dmg,(very low chance unless you believe miracle)
and need to mention that if you get the lowest crit & crit dmg with others hp def is useless piece tho,
advise new players do not too picky just start it with any crit/crit dmg with atk% to lv25,
spend stamina on material maximize all skill lv would better than gamble the stats..
hope this helps
bro farming echos with element u want is so pain event tacet field gives bad ones def hp atk .i hope it becomes less grindy at least for elements
Bruh, purple tuners can be converted into yellow ones later
The reason I haven't pushed mid echos to lvl25 is not just because of echo exp. It's because using 10 or 20 more tuners on a piece that will be recycled feels like a waste with the 30% tuner refund rate.
Tuner lost is linear unlike echo exp and hence should be less of a concern for going to +25. This is also alleviated by the tuner synthesis upcoming.
It’s 60% now. I think they ninja patched it a few days ago.
@@KokkyGachasI disagree. The guy is right, especially with 3 cost echoes. The release of end game gearing (echoes) early on in this state of the game comes with a few upside and a lot of downsides. The good thing being able to prep early on at the cost of hefty amounts of tubes, shell credits, tuners and time grinding echoes with 3 cost being the most pain in the ass to get only to get suboptimal substats with a substanstial amount of spread and when that occurs, the echo is deemed unusable by many with no way to get anything out of it but feed it with lots of lost exp and 70% tuners gone down the drain.
@@Z-r0grav1ty The decision between going to 25 vs staying 20 has always been whether you can reap enough benefits from it. The same can be said for most things we purchase where there's always a trade off. Why upgrade your phone now instead of waiting 2 years for a better one at the same price?
@@KokkyGachasI mean I’m no expert but I feel like the difference there is there is no theoretical “best” phone, therefore in most cases waiting for a “better” deal with a phone doesnt really make sense because there will always be a better option later on, whereas in this case there is a definite “best case scenario” with echoes
Great guide! posting to please the algorithm gods :)
any encore mains? (on echoes) does the resonance liberation substat benefit encore's ult?
I mean when she ults, all her attacks will be counted as basic attacks...
should i lean on basic attack % over resonance liberation % when talking about substats
Great vid as always. Just need a clarification: 6:45 you are saying it is good to go for +10 as you have about 10% chance to hit a roll? Isn't the % on the right most column assumes a complete roll to +25 and therefore, cumulative %? I.e. you have 10% chance to hit crit rate + crit damage in your remaining 4 substat rolls. How can that help in deciding WHEN to stop? If my interpretation of the last column is right, you should look into the probability of hitting crit rate or dmg in the NEXT roll vs. Exp/tuners invested.
Thanks alot for the comment! The reason why the probability is looking at the cumulative chance is because we are trying to work with the goal in mind. If we only consider the probability to hit a crit stat, it will favour the later rolls as there will always be less stats left in the pool to roll from. However, this does not mean we will eventually end up with double crit or even double crit+atk.
By looking at the cumulative chance, we can decide when to stop based on the odds you eventually get a piece with stats you want provided if you hit a desired stat on the next roll vs the exp lost. If the odds are low even if you hit a desired stat, you will want to backtrack and get a desired stat on the previous roll instead and recycle the piece.
If you wish to look at whether to stop even if you hit the crit, or if you hit then miss, you will need to cross reference 2 tables to reach a conclusion.
@@KokkyGachas I see. Thanks for the explanation.
Guys your crit rate stat is more important than crit damage initially. Whats the point in echoes with onlu crit damage line if u have no crit rate? Id be aiming for those mid gear pieces that are good provide plenty dps but obviously not omg amazing. Not looking at figures but if u got crit rate and atck percentage thats legit a good piece for how far u are in game.
But you can increase crit rate with food buff and not crit damage afaik.
@@ababil2408 cant use food buffs in tower, tower is more important because holograms can be done later but tower cant, you'll lose astrites
@@TarnishedddddYeah cr is better overrall really and just stack your atk to deal more dmg so like Cr - Elem% - Atk% - Cdmg
@@ababil2408 can u for every game mode?
@@gachacaspa sadly, no. I just realized
first of all, why can't we sacrifice echoes to upgrade other echoes? example, the useless 1 cost or 3 cost we are hoarding should be used to upgrade the 4 cost echoes and vise versa.
U need to look at the dev’s pov too, not just as consumer. They need to make money and the echo system is their golden duck. If u can just simply grind to level the echo, how are they going to make more money from you.
@@akmalahmad2365 huh? Dude, they aren't making money via the echoes at all.
@@jasonj5579 bro no way. Haha. If they dont why are they charging money to recharge energy? And they are also selling tubes and dice pack.
@@akmalahmad2365 have u played other similar games like Genshin or HSR or TOF? Similar to genshin's artifacts or HSR relics, players do grind alot to get the best stat items as much as possible, but non spend money just to grind especially if you already have decent relics or artifacts. The main source of money spending comes from the characters and weapons. Similarly, nobody spends money for the sake of echoes. Take me for example, I have pretty decent echoes and never spent to get those echoes. I only spent for limited chars n weapons.
going from 20 to 25 if not at least 2 good rolls is still a huge exp lost early game.
If i dont get crit %or attack %on lvl10 yeah trashing it but ult + or skill+ is a good combo for crit
i usually lvl up to +15, if there is no crit and at least something seem ok like atk%/Dmg bonus, move on
@@blackblaze4830Nah. Damage type % get extremely diluted and are always worse than Attack% and even flat attack. Their should almost always be considered undesirable unless the character has 50% of it in their damage profile. Like Normal Attack for Encore, or Skill for Yinlin. They're still worse than flat attack as such, but pretty close
@@Jugement im talking about skill and ult % its give so much damage im aaying this cause i tested 25% ult damage to 0% and with just pure attack the difference is really big with the the 25% ult damage give 10k extra damage than with just attack% it just scales your base damage but a small amount not saying its bad but getting ult% is really good on burst ult like rover and yinlin (note teated this damage out put on rover cause rover has instant damage burst its not like yinlin)combo this with jianxin that gives you extra 25% ult damage your getting a lot of burst damage with just one ult
pls help me on which is better:
set 1:
HP: 15043
ATK: 1588
DEF: 921
Energy Regen:142%
Crit rate: 75.5%
Drit Damage: 240.2%
set 2
HP: 15205
ATK: 1588
DEF: 921
Energy Regen:139.6%
Crit rate: 97.5%
Drit Damage: 181.2%
set 3
HP: 14613
ATK: 1523
DEF: 1076
Energy Regen:130.4%
Crit rate: 105.6%
Drit Damage: 181.2%
First set, good ratio.
My problem with recycling echoes is that realistically there are high chances you lose more than 25% exp. Lets say you level an echo to +10 and get crit rate and crit damage, then you commit and dump a +25 with bad rolls into it, you may end up getting only bad rolls on the last substats so then you'll need to build another echo. But still, 75% is a generous number so its not that bad
Thank you uncle roger
I wish I heard this earlier. and If I understood the video it's optimal to just go for +10 and recycle
Isn’t that common sense?
@@miscellaneous7777 did u even watch the video? how does knowing the probability to be better at +10 common sense? mr. einstein
It depends on your criteria. If you are only looking for CR and CD, if you don't see at least one of them by the time you roll your second substat (+10) then you move on. However this changes when you are looking for 3 good substats or more. For example, if you want 2 of the rolls to be CR and CD and one of the rolls to be ATK%/ATK/ER then it is desirable to go all the way to +25, provided you can fulfill the requirements every step of the way. What I mean is, say you rolled flat HP and flat DEF for your first two roll, you should still try unlocking the 3rd substat, as it is still possible for you to get CR, CD, and one of the ATK5/ATK/ER rolls. But if the 3rd substat turns out to be HP%, then you stop and recycle. So essentially, you always unlock 3 substats first and see if the requirements can still be fulfilled, continue if yes, stop if no.
Nice vid. I think going 25 is only worth on pieces you that hit at least 3 good stats for character. I did this on main team average echoes, because didn't fully understand the system, around UL 30 when I hit databank 18, which was a big mistake and waste of resources. Because ultimately you gonna need to make 3 (2?) teams at least for tower and good mix of elements to choose from for different resistant mobs and I would rather spend waveplates and astrite to get resonators to 60-70 and lvl weapons + skills, rather then wasting it on on tacet fields. Yes you get fast echoes from it which is a good part but still you can farm those for free after DB 18, and you get some free ones while progressing.
PS. Taoqi is the best starter core caz she eats DEF stats crit and crit damage, gets free 4 start weapon, and generally ez to pull early.
Is it possible to not get HP and Def in this game? 😂
so should we scrap bad echo at 3rd bad stat or what?
At 6:00 you listed a table where you have number of desired stats, total number of stats, number of rolls etc. why does the last row have 10 total number of stats still instead of 9?
I think you are mistaken. The total number of stats is not always 13 and reduces with every roll as what we are doing is without replacement (no dupes). The scenarios listed are where you have yet to hit either crit rate or crit dmg which is logical since if you hit crit rate/crit dmg (what u are looking for) you will naturally continue. The probabilities are trying to help us determine when it is no longer feasible to continue rolling having not yet hit the stats we are looking for.
As for the number of desired outcomes, u made the mistake of simply multiplying the outcomes by 2 without considering double crit outcomes that are shared and should be subtracted which gives the desired outcomes listed in the video. Hope this explain things.
Note: It should be 9 for the first scenario I prolly copied it down without checking the number of stats. Thanks for spotting.
@@KokkyGachas Actually, I realized after going through it again that you are calculating the probability of hitting the target after a roll has been completed, essentially you are analyzing each step and what's the probability of hitting your target. Where as I did it from the end goal perspective. For example at 7:00 you talked about CR and CD must be present. I looked at what's the probability of hitting the criteria if you only unlock 2 rolls, 3 rolls etc.
If you unlock only 2 rolls, then both rolls must be either be CR or CD, an avg of 78 tries, 334,125 echo exp and 1,098 tuners.
3 rolls, where you are allowed 1 undesired roll, with avg of 26 tries, 287,100 echo exp and 555 tuners.
4 rolls, avg of 13 tries, 316,400 echo exp, 376 tuners.
5 rolls, avg of 7.8 tries, 385,020 echo exp, 288 tuners.
As you mentioned, we get alot more echo exp compared to tuners, so it is actually desirable to go all the way to +25, provided the end condition can still be fulfilled, as it has the least amount of tuner usage, shortest "chain", but highest amount of exp needed. In 1.1 however, we are getting tuner synthesis, so that will probably change the optimal path then.
Also, for the desired outcome, I was reading off the wrong column. Your numbers are right.
5 roll > 2C1*11C4 + 2C2*11C3 = 825
4 roll > 2C1*10C3 + 2C2*10C2 = 285
3 roll > 2C1*9C2 + 2C2*11C1 = 81
2 roll > 2C1*8C1 + 2C2*11C0 = 17
1 roll > 2C1*8C0 = 2
My best substats roll
Crt rate
Atk
Crt Dmg
Energy Regen
HP
Is there any chance that the distributed substats is not the same chance for all the substats?
I watch video that show statistics to get the High Roll is lower compare to Mid Roll.
What about getting DEF/HP is higher than the other Substats?
Nope there is enough collected data by a collective of TCs to show there is no bias in the specific substat only the ranges
@@KokkyGachas What about the main stats? Are they also equally distributed?
I am so unlucky that with my Chixia every echo has crit rate and not crit dmg... So now I have to farm the 4 echo cost and hope to find crit dmg + crit rate + atk 😅
CD piece is much easier to get than CR one😂 farming cr piece is a nightmare
@@gautampattnaik7728 yeah but to find both the sub-stat crit is more difficult 🥲
Why's -everyone using maplestory music
Does 1x echo atk% atk flat number even exists???
Yes
@@KokkyGachas i found it, 1 cost echos always come with hp second mainstat
@@WowXCoolStoryBro oh i thought u are referring to 1x as in 10+% substat rolls lol
Can we get that spreadsheet
Thanks!
I go all on stats 😂 and hope for the best
This video deserve more likes. Bery informative
flat atk is not a bad stat.
I see Excel sheets, I sub😂
My game is so laggy that its unplayable
Or better yet, ditch this whole system and just have the mechanic to reroll the same echo pieces without having to discard the dead pieces. Saves more time and stress imo
Luck base relic rolls gotta go 💀💀💀
its a gacha game +_+
Lord RNGesus rules above all. All must bow before him But seriously, I hate this aspect of the game. I know it's designed to entice longer gameplay, thus strengthening the game's viability/longevity. Sucks for the player who has no luck though _cough_ me _cough_
Dump the element echo that dont match the 3 cost one it just dont makes sense if you keeps it 😅 if its the non elemental set they yeah keeping all types of elements cause it might be meta at some point or good sub build for a character but yeah trashing element echo that dont match or def or hp on 4 cost or 1 cost is a routen now 😅
Idk why all talking about lack of tuners, i really lack of exp echo, still have 380 tuners, get 5 characters full 25lvl echo and building havoc rover now.
Building full +25 echo sets will always use an extremely small amount of tuners compared to exp. Many people including me are opting for less sets and more recycles to min max substats which will expand tuners faster.
echo leveling has completely ruined the game , i lost the will to keep playing
haha why is that
@@yuuboi i don't get perfect stats and tools to level up echos are expensive and so rare , i even tried to craft them but it's just impossible all the pain for 1000xp or 100
I couldn't agree more...
@@ach6308 just keep farmin em