I’m of the opinion that the alto clarinet is extremely versatile - since it has a timbre intermediate between the soprano clarinets and the bass clarinet, which don’t really even differ by all that much anyway, it can really hold the clarinet choir together and provide a unified, cohesive section sound. It can support much what the bass clarinet does, and it can also easily blend seamlessly with the soprano clarinets. Hence, it’s perfect for a voice that needs to do both of those things without having to constantly switch between the soprano and bass clarinets. I also kinda love “alto-range” instruments (even though really it’s more of a tenor clarinet), with their darker and thicker tones than their soprano counterparts, so I’d be a fan anyway.
Definitely would be interested to see you revisit this video and/or do a follow up for orchestral scoring. Hell, it'd make a good extra piece of promotional content for Vol. 1 & Vol. 2 of your Bandestration books
I'd love to see the alto get a decent modern upgrade to fix issues that have been around for decades. Then I'd love to see a section of at least four added to the standard wind ensemble.
From what I've heard, the modern Buffet and Yamaha models are pretty well up there. Selmer still hasn't worked out how to surpass the Leblanc/Noblet models, though
Entertaining the topic of alto clarinet scoring in the orchestra; an interesting experiment would be to replace 2nd clarinet with alto clarinet. Eb specifically, as it’s more obtainable than basset horn- granted having a well set up instrument. It would be a suitable true tenor for the woodwinds. It can go high enough to keep up with the soprano clarinet clarino and beef up the bassoon’s mid range. The alto couldn’t replace a good chunk of existing orchestral repertoire for 2nd clarinet but writing new stuff with a Bb clarinet and alto in mind would be interesting to hear.
I don't know if you'd still be up for doing this, but could you do a video on scoring for alto clarinet in the orchestra? I am wanting to include it in one of my works, and I would very much appreciate any insight you have on the topic. Thank you!
I think the main reason alto clarinet is not terribly popular is that it is too dark to really carry in the upper register, so it needs the support of the B♭ clarinets, and while it has a very nice low end, there is nothing there the bass clarinet cannot do just as well. It's stuck in the middle without a unique reason to exist. It's a side effect of the clarinet's acoustics and overblowing to the twelfth. Instruments a half-octave (more or less) apart from top to bottom just aren't as necessary with clarinets as with, say, saxophones or brass. Strings have an octave gap between viola and cello, and that doesn't seem to be an issue in orchestral writing. (It _is_ somewhat of a problem in quartet writing, however -- although I personally like using a "Trout quartet": violin, viola, cello, and bass.) I actually like alto clarinet as a solo instrument, where cutting through isn't a particular concern, and there is no bass clarinet to cover that bottom end. Joe Lovano has used it quite effectively, and in his hands it does have a function somewhat like that of a tenor saxophone (as opposed to Eric Dolphy's bass clarinet). Seeing as how I have always been a multi-instrumentalist, and never liked having to deal with divas on any instrument, I tend to play whatever a band lacks, rather than trying to wedge myself into a section. If that's alto clarinet, that's fine with me -- I do own one. But it better actually _matter_ in the texture, or that band would be better off putting me on third horn, or baritone saxophone, or anything else that I play for that matter. (Word to the wise: if you have to call in a ringer, put them on a prominent part. Otherwise you're not getting your money's worth.) That's not to say I won't play what I'm asked to play -- I've been called in as a ringer to play second clarinet. That's fine, but I'm not sure it was the most effective way to spend the ringer budget. With the same band in another situation, I was called in to play baritone saxophone. I can guarantee I'll make a difference playing one of those! Actually, I got the call to play horn, and that's what I showed up to the rehearsal with, but then an old friend showed up with a horn also -- and she doesn't play woodwinds at all, so I gladly moved.
Composers like Maslanka are part of the problem... We have students going through their entire education hearing that the Eb and Alto are useless and horrible and are never exposed to a decent instrument if they do interact with one.
I think they should make alto clarinets that go down to at least a low d but a c would be awesome if makers like Buffet, Yamaha, Leblanc, or Selmer made them it would be worth it
Within the literature, there are none that I know of that call for an E-flat Alto. There are, however, many that call for the F Basset Horn, which provides essentially the same voice.
Ah yes, the same trick for getting a low A from a bari sax that doesn't have one. The problem is getting the additional length in and out so as not to screw up other notes. I saw a tuba rigged with a pulley system to insert and remove a mute (Mnozil Brass I think it was), so maybe there's an idea.
I was originally drawn to alto clarinet as a jazz instrument, as it encompasses the range of the alto sax (and then some). . I have, however, been writing formal music for it for number of years. I have a concerto for alto clarinet and full orchestra, another concerto for alto and chamber orchestra, and a tone poem for double string orchestra with alto clarinet and English horn soloists. Among other orchestral works in which it's a supporting instrument in the clarinet section.
I'm always befuddled by the simple fact people have a need for transposition in 440hz chromatic scale. A to E flat, E flat to B flat etc be like "just because your true C is a bent finger plus 3 holes... " lol
I disagree with your referring to the Eb alto as a "tenor" instrument. . With instruments, the voice range is relative to other instruments in the family, and not to vocal ranges. With clarinets, the Bb is the soprano voice; the Eb alto is the alto voice; the Bb _"bass"_ is the _tenor_ instrument of the family, and the Eb "contralto" is the bass instrument.
@@padraicfanning7055 I don't know about the Folk Song Suite, but I know that Toccata Marziale (plus the entirety of Holst's band output) didn't originally have Alto Clarinet parts - I believe they were added by publishers because of the American market, since English military bands were substantially smaller
I’m of the opinion that the alto clarinet is extremely versatile - since it has a timbre intermediate between the soprano clarinets and the bass clarinet, which don’t really even differ by all that much anyway, it can really hold the clarinet choir together and provide a unified, cohesive section sound. It can support much what the bass clarinet does, and it can also easily blend seamlessly with the soprano clarinets. Hence, it’s perfect for a voice that needs to do both of those things without having to constantly switch between the soprano and bass clarinets.
I also kinda love “alto-range” instruments (even though really it’s more of a tenor clarinet), with their darker and thicker tones than their soprano counterparts, so I’d be a fan anyway.
Definitely would be interested to see you revisit this video and/or do a follow up for orchestral scoring. Hell, it'd make a good extra piece of promotional content for Vol. 1 & Vol. 2 of your Bandestration books
I'd love to see the alto get a decent modern upgrade to fix issues that have been around for decades. Then I'd love to see a section of at least four added to the standard wind ensemble.
From what I've heard, the modern Buffet and Yamaha models are pretty well up there. Selmer still hasn't worked out how to surpass the Leblanc/Noblet models, though
Entertaining the topic of alto clarinet scoring in the orchestra; an interesting experiment would be to replace 2nd clarinet with alto clarinet. Eb specifically, as it’s more obtainable than basset horn- granted having a well set up instrument. It would be a suitable true tenor for the woodwinds. It can go high enough to keep up with the soprano clarinet clarino and beef up the bassoon’s mid range. The alto couldn’t replace a good chunk of existing orchestral repertoire for 2nd clarinet but writing new stuff with a Bb clarinet and alto in mind would be interesting to hear.
I don't know if you'd still be up for doing this, but could you do a video on scoring for alto clarinet in the orchestra? I am wanting to include it in one of my works, and I would very much appreciate any insight you have on the topic. Thank you!
I think the main reason alto clarinet is not terribly popular is that it is too dark to really carry in the upper register, so it needs the support of the B♭ clarinets, and while it has a very nice low end, there is nothing there the bass clarinet cannot do just as well. It's stuck in the middle without a unique reason to exist. It's a side effect of the clarinet's acoustics and overblowing to the twelfth. Instruments a half-octave (more or less) apart from top to bottom just aren't as necessary with clarinets as with, say, saxophones or brass. Strings have an octave gap between viola and cello, and that doesn't seem to be an issue in orchestral writing. (It _is_ somewhat of a problem in quartet writing, however -- although I personally like using a "Trout quartet": violin, viola, cello, and bass.)
I actually like alto clarinet as a solo instrument, where cutting through isn't a particular concern, and there is no bass clarinet to cover that bottom end. Joe Lovano has used it quite effectively, and in his hands it does have a function somewhat like that of a tenor saxophone (as opposed to Eric Dolphy's bass clarinet).
Seeing as how I have always been a multi-instrumentalist, and never liked having to deal with divas on any instrument, I tend to play whatever a band lacks, rather than trying to wedge myself into a section. If that's alto clarinet, that's fine with me -- I do own one. But it better actually _matter_ in the texture, or that band would be better off putting me on third horn, or baritone saxophone, or anything else that I play for that matter. (Word to the wise: if you have to call in a ringer, put them on a prominent part. Otherwise you're not getting your money's worth.)
That's not to say I won't play what I'm asked to play -- I've been called in as a ringer to play second clarinet. That's fine, but I'm not sure it was the most effective way to spend the ringer budget. With the same band in another situation, I was called in to play baritone saxophone. I can guarantee I'll make a difference playing one of those! Actually, I got the call to play horn, and that's what I showed up to the rehearsal with, but then an old friend showed up with a horn also -- and she doesn't play woodwinds at all, so I gladly moved.
Composers like Maslanka are part of the problem... We have students going through their entire education hearing that the Eb and Alto are useless and horrible and are never exposed to a decent instrument if they do interact with one.
Do you ever write for jazz band? I used to play alto clarinet in jazz band back in high school. Very unique sound!
I haven't yet. There's a steep learning curve to it, but it's something I might tackle in a few years.
You should check out Gianluigi Trovesi . He's a jazz player and composer who uses alto clarinet extensively in his work.
I very like bassethorn. It's brighter
I think they should make alto clarinets that go down to at least a low d but a c would be awesome if makers like Buffet, Yamaha, Leblanc, or Selmer made them it would be worth it
I never even heard of a piece that called for Alto Clarinet in a orchestra. Im curious, id like to know
Within the literature, there are none that I know of that call for an E-flat Alto. There are, however, many that call for the F Basset Horn, which provides essentially the same voice.
This is why I think alto clarinets should have been designed from the start with a range to low D -- to cover basset horn parts.
@@mal2ksc stick a roll of paper into the bell. it lowers the low Eb by a half step, therefore having a low D.
Ah yes, the same trick for getting a low A from a bari sax that doesn't have one. The problem is getting the additional length in and out so as not to screw up other notes. I saw a tuba rigged with a pulley system to insert and remove a mute (Mnozil Brass I think it was), so maybe there's an idea.
I was originally drawn to alto clarinet as a jazz instrument, as it encompasses the range of the alto sax (and then some).
.
I have, however, been writing formal music for it for number of years. I have a concerto for alto clarinet and full orchestra, another concerto for alto and chamber orchestra, and a tone poem for double string orchestra with alto clarinet and English horn soloists. Among other orchestral works in which it's a supporting instrument in the clarinet section.
How did you get a peg onto the bell? Is it soldered on personally?
Yes, it's soldered on.
I'm always befuddled by the simple fact people have a need for transposition in 440hz chromatic scale. A to E flat, E flat to B flat etc be like "just because your true C is a bent finger plus 3 holes... " lol
I disagree with your referring to the Eb alto as a "tenor" instrument.
.
With instruments, the voice range is relative to other instruments in the family, and not to vocal ranges. With clarinets, the Bb is the soprano voice; the Eb alto is the alto voice; the Bb _"bass"_ is the _tenor_ instrument of the family, and the Eb "contralto" is the bass instrument.
The fact that the alto clarinet literally doubles the alto saxophone note-for-note in “Folk Song Suite” puzzles me. (Seriously, RVW?)
@@padraicfanning7055 I don't know about the Folk Song Suite, but I know that Toccata Marziale (plus the entirety of Holst's band output) didn't originally have Alto Clarinet parts - I believe they were added by publishers because of the American market, since English military bands were substantially smaller