How can you look your sisters in the eye knowing that you helped your abusive father killed their mother A couple of years in prison is not Justice That's barely a slap on the wrist
@K L How the fuck is this privilege, she helped to kill another woman; so where is the mother's privilege? This is just encouraging women to kill other women on the long run, thus hurting other women's "privilege". Just a little bit contradictory.
True, but the loss of her sisters maybe the biggest loss. When you think of all the family times that she well miss with her sisters may be worse. No wedding planning times, no sharing for pending motherhood etc.
I guess you can spend a few years in prison and all of the life consequences thereafter and just shrug it off then? I think it's plenty of time, but of course she'll need a good therapist.
@Daisy I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or genuinely complimenting. "Always busy making videos, never sleeps" and "being great dad" doesn't correlate , or I'm missing something?
my thoughts as well. for karrie to assist in murdering her own mom, WHILE her little sister was in the home, is horrific. and now... she is a very free, very dangerous human.
Any parent who is abusive to the other and makes their child choose sides in any manner is not a good parent to that child. Period. This is obviously abuse to a severe degree, I mean he murdered her for crying out loud, so clearly I do not think this guy is winning any awards for father of the year. However, although he clearly used his power to manipulate his daughter, I do think she should have been held accountable and done more prison time for her part in such a disgusting scheme. Horrendous case.
I agree with the sentiment but we don't know that's what happened in this case, I always took my Dad's side against my Mom in every situation big and small(they aren't even divorced) without any manipulation needed because I honestly just plum like him more than my Mom.....that's the harsh truth of it & maybe Kerri was just a Daddy's girl too.
@@rx4real253 Yeah, I get that. But, being a daddy's girl, yourself, one question: Your Dad didn't ask you to help kill your Mom, did he? The relationship with the two in this daddy/daughter duo went way beyond a normal Daddy's girl relationship.
This “father” exhibited classic NPD traits and features: charismatic, the winner parent (trying to make the mother look like the loser), selfish (no child support), no compunction leaving his marriage, chose to murder instead of dealing with ex-spouse through the court system, played perennial victim…no soul
"Charismatic" to other narcissists, perhaps. I'm a pretty sensitive person so I can usually spot a narcissist at twenty paces. It would be obvious to most people with some awareness that this guy is a grade-A scuzbox.
@aarondavis8943 you say you're pretty sensitive, so you are better at spotting narcissists than others. So how does that mean only other narcissists wouldn't spot this guy? I'm pretty bad at spotting them myself, but it works out bc I avoid ppl who ask too much of me, or disrespect me, regardless of their status or relationshipto me. They get a few favors bf I get annoyed, and then I kind of feel bad for flaking, but then I run into someone else who lets me know what's up.
@@HomesteadGirls uh.. nazi germany ring any bells for you? To blame it all on Hitler is absurd. How many countless people participated in that? Did they know right from wrong? That hardly sounds like the issue.
I had the same thoughts on this case. Carrie only seemed concerned for her mother AFTER they had been caught. Her final deposition was so cringe worthy. All her tears were for herself. I agree that 20 years seems more fair.
This makes me wonder about the relationship between the sisters. I could see them never talking again. The whole “You killed mom” thing would be a bit of an issue. But then again family dynamics are weird. So who knows?
Who knows? Maybe she equally dislike her mom? Maybe she is also cold and apathetic? Sister got a strong bond you know? In this case I reckon it was quite strong.
Well, she paid with her life for that $6000 a month that’s a ridiculous amount not that I’m condoning murder After a divorce. You should no longer have to keep the other person up to the standard of living when they were married to you if you divorce them you don’t get to keep the fringe benefits
As someone who had a horribly controlling and abusive father who told me (and convinced me) that my mother didn’t love me, I feel very sorry for these girls and very fortunate that I have a solid relationship with my mother and none with my father now that I’m grown up.
Man, I loathe parents who are pathetic enough to manipulate their children into a broken relationship with the other parent. Truly disgusting people and they are very common, I know several.
He was an engineer, as mentioned multiple times by Dr. Grande. My father worked as a chemical engineer, if I asked him for $6k in this _lifetime_ he would just laugh. Like Lloyd, he’s also a total narcissist funnily enough.
The girl getting let off easy, could be due to her lawyer using her case to make a deal with the prosecutor on a different case, involving one of his other clients. You go easy on her, and I won't fight as hard for my other client in this completely separate case, which you are also prosecuting". It happens on a daily basis in the American "Justice" System. Unethical? Yes. But unethical is the name of the game for American lawyers!
Yeah definitely agree that the daughter should have gotten more prison time. That sad what her father did but she too is responsible for the murder of her mother. Great video Dr Grande. Have a nice weekend!!
@Harriet the spy WRONG, She was an adult and going to college when she did what she did, therefore your argument about her being a “child” doesnt work.
@@kbcguevo69 it's so easy to be manipulated by your parent though, even as an adult. He poisoned her mind and even threatened suicide. She probably thought she had to do it to save her dad's life. That's a lot of pressure for someone so young. She probably would have never killed anyone without him.
@@daniellelopez3342 She was under the father's influence and groomed since birth to obey him. The court must have taken that into consideration. She was still a teenager at the time of the crime. The prosecutor needed her evidence and did the usual thing with the plea deal. This young woman will need a great deal of psychiatric help going forward.
I keep thinking about the other two daughters😔. How traumatizing must it have been to lose your mother, father and probably the sister too due to this nightmare of a case... As always thank you dr. Grande for your great analysis!
@@burprobrox9134 referring more so to the fact that Todd has a calming demeanour and none of the over the top bells and whistles that some other channels do
I am now in my sixties and remain inexplicably intimidated by my father. It was common to be spanked when I was growing up and I never felt physically abused. But to this day, he has a loud voice and an irrational temper. My mother is still emotionally remote, though the marriage is still strong in their 90s. Dad was the parent we turned to for nurturing because he loved us, and my siblings and I still fight for his unpredictable affection. I have a successful marriage, a successful career, and 2 adult children. But when Dad shows up at my door demanding something - anything - I literally do not have the power to turn him down. (His demands are never sexual.) At 20, I would have expected leniency even for murder, though I would have begged Dad to change his mind for his own sake.
He should not show up at your door demanding stuff. You have your own life, now. Maybe listen to some videos about how to set and stick to appropriate boundaries.
It's past time for you to put your Dad in a proper place. He's a toxic personality. I went through this with my Dad. You can free yourself. Jesus can help you.
You have to wonder how anyone can think that murdering another person is a viable, logical, and efficient solution to your problems and that you are so much more clever than everyone else that you will never ever get caught.
Agree. Amateurs should realize they will miss some obvious clues that law enforcement professionals will have seen many times. Like when criminals fake a burglary to cover up a homicide; LE has seen thousands of burglaries, so they know a fake one when they see it. The odds are really good that a crime will eventually be solved. Technology keeps evolving.
@UCk8C9sI-HvmlWMcmv7iTDYA Even just the total randomness of criminal investigation.....people have been stopped by a patrolman for a broken taillight, and there's a body in the car. Or received a ticket while committing the crime, and been IDed by the ticket, like David Berkowitz. The odds are against anyone successfully committing a crime. It does happen, but who would risk it if they were thinking straight?
@@evelynwaugh4053 Not just obvious clues. CSI is a constantly evolving art which adapts to each new iteration criminals concoct to outwit the system. No matter how clever they think they are are the cops are leagues ahead and, unbeknownst to the criminals, running circles around them. How far ahead the cops are will only become obvious when the evidence is ultimately revealed at trial.
I'm sorry, but this case overstrains my ability to feel and show empathy for humans. Nevertheless, enjoy your weekend everyone out there. Doctor, don't work so hard, I'm constantly worried about your health, when you put so much videos out. Enjoy the nature. You aren't a robot, you need sun and to enjoy yourself. 🌳🌴🌻🌞
@@crochunter35 I don't know, the girl choose the father sides, and I know nothing about her. Is it okay that I felt nothing? because all of you have this weird feeling of empathy towards an unknown stranger that probably didn't even care about her family?
@@HomesteadGirls Most people are mediocre. They aren't bad or good. There's a lot more good than bad, but there isn't too much of either. The mediocre ones tend to treat might as making right. It's easier than thinking it through, being brave, etc. And the few bad do a lot of bad.
I would be interested in seeing when he signed off on his plea deal. I wonder if he bargained his daughter's lighter charge/sentence in lieu of him agreeing to life. She definitely should have served more time.
Sounds like loyd was a perpetrator of something called parental alienation. I was a nanny for a family where that was occurring and I actually wrote a chapter in a book where the father wrote about parental alienation. It is really sad and it only hurts the kids.
@@privateprivate8366 She is the victim? Father was abusive, but there is no excuse for her what she decided to do. It's insane! She is guilty of murdering her own mother or at least helping a lot her father to execute it. So sad, I hope her sister get some courage to reinvestigate that! If she is not totally broken by now
@@privateprivate8366 At the time of murder she wasn't a kid anymore. But when I look at their photos, daughter has pretty much the same facial expression as her father. Maybe inherited mental illness or personality disorder, agression?Partners in crime for sure!
Good morning Dr Grande. I've never heard of this case , but l agree, the daughter should have got 20yrs for her part of the crime. Thank you Dr Grande.
Somewhere out there in the universe somewhere maybe even another dimension, but it warms my heart knowing that a Dr. Todd Venti has a chance of really existing
Great analysis, Dr. Grande! I very much agree that she got off way too easy for such an unthinkable crime! Hope you're taking as much care of yourself as you are to those plants! ♡
I sat here for a while trying to figure out how she wouldn't be the person she was raised to be. She was much younger though. Maybe a few years would add some reason? Yeah, you just broke my brain.
"He was threatening them with a gravitationally assisted demise." I've never heard anyone refer to throwing a temper tantrum more eloquently, by threatening to jump to his death like a forlorn teenage girl.
He'd groomed her, her whole life. Manipulation on such a scale is absolutely mind altering. People really underestimate it. He probably really built an unnatural hatred in her for her mother. Could even be narc golden child syndrome. 10-20 is fair with parole on the table but with intensive therapy. :/
Yea I think the whole "she was 19" argument fails to see that she was being groomed for many years as a minor, and her mental state by 19 was unlikely to be anything resembling normal. Hell she was physically abused. I think she probably could have gotten a couple more years but in the end I think she's a victim too.
I agree! Abused children are stunted in their problem solving and decision making skills. Putting her in prison would’ve been a nightmare for her. She was probably afraid of her dad as well
@@kibirdie sometimes abused children are excellent at problem solving and critical thinking despite their difficult backgrounds. You can’t paint them all with the same brush.
This seems like a horrible case of parental alienation. Although I do feel that the daughter was old enough to be held accountable. I certainly agree that she should have gotten way more time than what she did. Tragic case all around. On another note- You did visit the Corning Museum of Glass! How awesome, I heard that you can even “Make your own glass!” This place has been on my wish list for quite some time.🙂 Thank you for another great video Dr. Grande.❤️
Was this the one in which the girl was a terrible actress on the call with the police? That call was HILARIOUS. Girl went from crying to normal in less than a single second. "So called lie detector test" "Gravitationally-assisted demise" That's the good stuff.
Hello Dr. Grande, I very much appreciate your videos. Your presentation is simple, well crafted and easy to watch, thank you for taking the time to share your hard work. Well done! I’ve a question for you…in the beginning of each video you say…”Just a reminder I’m not diagnosing anybody in this video, only speculating about what could be happening in a situation like this”. However, you do proceed to diagnose those in the video in the exact situation they are in, not one like it. Only curious, not criticizing. Again, thank you for your hard work. Cheers!
Shame Lloyd didn't jump. Would have spared the taxpayers. I really struggle to access any compassion for him and his choices. As for Kerrie, what a creepy young lady. I wonder how the other two daughters will fare now, particularly the youngest, who was in the house when her mother was murdered, survivor's guilt and all.
He does not deserve 3 hots and a cot and lots of luxuries. An education if he doesn't have one. It's crazy. The daughter needed some serious time. 30-40 years, at least.
This is a disturbing case. I watched another documentary about it and the forensic evidence was compelling. Thank you Dr Grande as always for your insightful analysis!💖
Thank u so much for keeping me up on all the interesting stories of the day- I'm too busy to know a lot of the timely happenings- have you done Nick Gordon, Bobby Kristina's boyfriend- he must have an interesting story! I know some, but am sure I'm missing a lot!!
Another great video, Dr. G! This was such a sad case. I feel so much compassion for Karrie and her sisters and horrible for their poor mother, of course. While I agree that Karrie received a light sentence, I'm hopeful that with the right help and therapy she will be able to be a productive adult. I also think that the child and spousal support laws need to be changed, perhaps we'd see less people murdering their families. Love your content, Dr. Grande 🥰 😚.
I didn’t know this took place in Corning and Rochester. That’s where I live. That dad is so creepy and the relationship with his daughter makes my skin crawl.
$6,000/month to an ex is cruel and unconscionable as an engineer and when he's in debt. He's not rich and will always be behind. It cages a person in and imo would make normal people rage. Murdering for gain is much worse.
"To prove his negotiating skills were as deficient as his parenting skills" That line is pure gold, and of course along with "gravitationally assisted demise"
This is a really good episode. Can I request that Dr Todd Grande do one on Phuc Vo in San Pablo, CA? His wife and MIL are missing but the latter's body was just found in the Oakland Estuary. The husband has already been arrested. I think it is going to be an interesting case and we can also peek into the interesting culture of the Vietnamese-American.
I’m curious as to how much the “middle child syndrome” may have played into this. I also appreciate your insight on how ‘value’ plays into ‘justice’ as this is a dirty game within the judicial system.
She is above average in terms of looks, so the persecutors decided to let her off the hook. Beauty matters in the judicial system. Ougly people usually sentenced longer prison term than beautiful people. what a sick society we live in.
Imagine how it must feel for a defendant to be told by the judge you’re never going to be free again. I’d have a full meltdown, I’d probably do a stool in my pants then suffer a massive embolism. Seems to me life without gets dished out all the time, it’s no deterrent to crime it’s pure retribution, it’s clear murderers need punished, we’re in 2021 there’s got to be a better way.
I got the **-dirt on Corning Ware striped blue design-*. *No wonder you put your fabulous pinstripe shirt on display. No wonder family situations are so delicate. *No wonder you give the best analysis,* both on the crime and the outcome. Thankyou Dr. Grande..💙. Thanks for two excellent cases in one day.💙 Turquoise Blue Stripe Milk Glass PYREX Corning Ware 1950s | Etsy Just gorgeous! Grab these before I decide to swap my current set for these!
Wow. Did not know about this…and I live in central NY! 😳 Awful! Agree with you that the daughter’s sentence was way too lenient. 💕💖💕👍🏼 Also agree that Corning Glass museum, tours and demos are great. Definitely worth a visit❣️
I so agree with you..... Just too dark without the very needed retribution...,Karrie was not a child, she knew right from wrong ... and chose wrong.., She could always insist that her father be hospitalized for his depression... She’s a damaged and damaging person being released in society... It’s very troubling... Very insightful.....paying alimony ; paying with his life...
Does anyone else feel like Dr Grande just rolls out of bed, puts his glasses on and sits down to make a video? Then he posts it, closes his laptop and gets back in the bed. It’s all love, Dr Grande! Love the content!
Wow, so glad that both of my parents were equally distasteful when they divorced so I didn't feel pressured to pick sides. Or, you know, *help one kill the other,* as one does.
Im really thankful for Dr. Grande's verbal footnotes. Like when he said " ...so two days after the court date..." or "...so the door had glass panes..." . Little things like that makes it much easier to follow the stories that are often rich in detail. Once I've heard a story on here I don't even bother to do additional research. Im not saying Dr. Grande is perfect, but I AM saying that this is probably as close as you'll get to the truth without having been there yourself lol.
@beswick1111 Well, maybe not a disorder just a choice. We humans are limited, constantly being paranoid wont make us move forward. So, it'll be best for us to extend our hand to something that we know could potentially bite us. Active bravery my friend. Step into the unknown, a brave man can't be brave without a fear. Some of them might just believe on govt because lack of insight. But some do it because of choice.
We may not hear about it in the context of murder, but it's more common than understood having one parent turn a child against the other parent. It is a severe form of psychological abuse.
As a parent one of the most important things to say to you’re children is that you are not a god you are just another imperfect human being and an imperfect parent. The only perfect thing is the love you have for your child
I totally agree. I've always told my kids that they were unique but not more "special" than anyone else. I taught them that if someone asked them what they wanted to be when they grew up, say a pony. That, "your special so you can be whatever you want to be," is a lie.
This is a great review and evaluation of this case. And I completely agree with you. There is a true risk of *this kind* of *actual* limited accountability. Yes, it sets a dangerous precedent *and* what does *she* now believe about accountability when it comes to her actions. This is clearly a young woman susceptible to manipulation in combination with the fact that she has shown a very low level of remorse and empathy. So now, she is out of prison, a very young woman, leaves this entire episode of her life with a pretty dramatic lesson learned. She aided in the murder of her mother, helped to conceal the crime, then helped authorities assign all the accountability (his *and her own* ) to her father and at 22 years old, it was all over and she's fine and free. We can never fully predict human behavior but if this young woman were in my life at all, I would keeping a very close eye on her. Someone in her position might feel like they could get by with anything.
Thanks once again, Dr. It is overwhelmingly terrible how far can a twisted mind go for evil purposes. I we don't learn and mature as humans, we are screwed. Thank you so much.
The sentence was despicably light, not a deterrent or a punishment. Kerri was a real piece of work, ultimately she betrayed both parents in the end........family members would be advised to watch their backs around her going forward.
Karrie was just like her father Lloyd…..total narcissist! Lloyd knew Karrie would do whatever he wanted because she was just like him! Both of them should have received life in prison! I hope Karrie’s life sucks!
@@joycemarie9702 I agree that they both should've been locked up for life, she rolled on her Dad pretty easily in the end......I wonder if her old man was willing to accept life without parole because he knew that he'd lost his one true confidante when Kerri betrayed him to the cops? I would have like his trial to go ahead out of a sense of morbid curiosity about how she would have performed on the witness stand......seems that she mastered the art of manipulation from her pops & the prosecutor bought into her narrative hook line and sinker.
Ha- hearing that also made me remember when I was in college near myrtle beach and my mom and grandmother came down to visit me- we went to the outlet stores and Corning was one of the first they walked into. I was SO ANNOYED as a 17 yr old kid but now that I’m 43, I so get it. Lol
Excellent analysis as usual. I too find it unconscionable an adult daughter participate in the crime rather than report soonest opportunity. Appalling.
Video suggestion: Could you please do a series on the effects of different parenting styles (f.e. the 4: authoritative, permissive, authoritarian, and neglectful) and practical things one can do to overcome the effects? Thank you and keep up the good work :)
Omg a Dr Grande video at 9 in the morning, wwhhhhhhhaaaaaaatt??? I grew up near Corning, and we’d go there on field trips all the time in elementary school. I hope you went to the Canadian side of Niagara Falls! It’s really pretty-especially at night when it’s all lit up.
The Canadian side is naturally going to be more stunning, partly due to the fact Canucks take great pride in their homeland, are death on litter, and have numerous social programs to uplift and enrich their citizenry rather than allowing them to fall thru the cracks unnoticed and unappreciated.
How can you look your sisters in the eye knowing that you helped your abusive father killed their mother
A couple of years in prison is not Justice
That's barely a slap on the wrist
Courts are unfairly biast against males to the benefit of females. It's obvious they gave the girl a pussy pass.
@K L How the fuck is this privilege, she helped to kill another woman; so where is the mother's privilege? This is just encouraging women to kill other women on the long run, thus hurting other women's "privilege". Just a little bit contradictory.
True, but the loss of her sisters maybe the biggest loss. When you think of all the family times that she well miss with her sisters may be worse. No wedding planning times, no sharing for pending motherhood etc.
I guess you can spend a few years in prison and all of the life consequences thereafter and just shrug it off then? I think it's plenty of time, but of course she'll need a good therapist.
@@sendmorerum8241 lol? You honestly don't think there's a favorable bias towards women in the justice system?
Dr Grande never sleeps. He's always busy making great videos for us.
I bet he's a great Dad.
I bet if you took an X-Acto knife, carefully cut those pinstripes out of that shirt and laid them end to end you could get to the exosphere.
He must have a staff now. His poor wife and kids
@Daisy I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or genuinely complimenting.
"Always busy making videos, never sleeps" and "being great dad" doesn't correlate , or I'm missing something?
He has kids?
I wish I had a dad 😞
"a gravationally assisted demise"... That's a new one. This is a sad story.
Dr. G: * matrix dodging demonitizer bullets *
Gravity assisted demise seems a more precise statement...
Im so glad im not the only one that literally laughed out loud to this.
I feel bad for the other daughter who basically lost her whole family all at one time.
Good point!
She still has her other sister.
@@spaceracer23
😳🙄
@beswick1111 I bet you blindly believe everything in the media
my thoughts as well.
for karrie to assist in murdering her own mom, WHILE her little sister was in the home, is horrific.
and now...
she is a very free, very dangerous human.
Any parent who is abusive to the other and makes their child choose sides in any manner is not a good parent to that child. Period. This is obviously abuse to a severe degree, I mean he murdered her for crying out loud, so clearly I do not think this guy is winning any awards for father of the year. However, although he clearly used his power to manipulate his daughter, I do think she should have been held accountable and done more prison time for her part in such a disgusting scheme. Horrendous case.
Perhaps they could earn merit badges in scouting for skills they learn under their father's tutelage.
@александр караманов, Could you put this in a couple of sentences without using metaphor? I’m interested.
5 years.
I agree with the sentiment but we don't know that's what happened in this case, I always took my Dad's side against my Mom in every situation big and small(they aren't even divorced) without any manipulation needed because I honestly just plum like him more than my Mom.....that's the harsh truth of it & maybe Kerri was just a Daddy's girl too.
@@rx4real253 Yeah, I get that. But, being a daddy's girl, yourself, one question: Your Dad didn't ask you to help kill your Mom, did he? The relationship with the two in this daddy/daughter duo went way beyond a normal Daddy's girl relationship.
This “father” exhibited classic NPD traits and features: charismatic, the winner parent (trying to make the mother look like the loser), selfish (no child support), no compunction leaving his marriage, chose to murder instead of dealing with ex-spouse through the court system, played perennial victim…no soul
"Charismatic" to other narcissists, perhaps. I'm a pretty sensitive person so I can usually spot a narcissist at twenty paces. It would be obvious to most people with some awareness that this guy is a grade-A scuzbox.
What part of 6,000.00 fucking dollars a month is "no child support" so youre a doctor!?
@hi_is_this_clorox_bleach they only hear what they want to hear.
@aarondavis8943 you say you're pretty sensitive, so you are better at spotting narcissists than others. So how does that mean only other narcissists wouldn't spot this guy? I'm pretty bad at spotting them myself, but it works out bc I avoid ppl who ask too much of me, or disrespect me, regardless of their status or relationshipto me. They get a few favors bf I get annoyed, and then I kind of feel bad for flaking, but then I run into someone else who lets me know what's up.
@@aarondavis8943 you go Aaron😎
I'm a child of divorce but I can't imagine being "manipulated" into helping one parent kill the other. That's just heinous.
Your imagination is probably lacking.
Some people are weaker than others.
I can see a kid being abused and brainwashed. I can't see anyone over 14 years old not understanding right or wrong just from school and peers.
@@HomesteadGirls uh.. nazi germany ring any bells for you? To blame it all on Hitler is absurd. How many countless people participated in that? Did they know right from wrong? That hardly sounds like the issue.
Total bull shit
@@AdaptiveApeHybrid and those people should be in prison for helping drag their dead mom's body to the bottom of the stairs and staging a scene
I had the same thoughts on this case. Carrie only seemed concerned for her mother AFTER they had been caught. Her final deposition was so cringe worthy. All her tears were for herself. I agree that 20 years seems more fair.
Is NPD inherited?
This makes me wonder about the relationship between the sisters. I could see them never talking again. The whole “You killed mom” thing would be a bit of an issue. But then again family dynamics are weird. So who knows?
Who knows? Maybe she equally dislike her mom? Maybe she is also cold and apathetic? Sister got a strong bond you know? In this case I reckon it was quite strong.
@@shirafaizaputri6887 yes those kids probably never had a chance from the beginning with a father like him
The oldest daughter recently married, both her sisters were in her wedding party.
It is disgusting that the daughter was let go like that.
Well, she paid with her life for that $6000 a month that’s a ridiculous amount not that I’m condoning murder After a divorce. You should no longer have to keep the other person up to the standard of living when they were married to you if you divorce them you don’t get to keep the fringe benefits
crime sometimes pays- she was an active accomplice and should have gotten the same sentence as her dad.
As someone who had a horribly controlling and abusive father who told me (and convinced me) that my mother didn’t love me, I feel very sorry for these girls and very fortunate that I have a solid relationship with my mother and none with my father now that I’m grown up.
Thank You for pointing this Out!
Man, I loathe parents who are pathetic enough to manipulate their children into a broken relationship with the other parent. Truly disgusting people and they are very common, I know several.
Wtf was this guy doing for a living where he was being charged $6k/month for one kid? I'm an adult and I don't cost that much to maintain lol
Wasn't it 3 kids
@@auroraborealis6671Michelle only had one kid living with her, the 14yo. Child support was being paid to her for only the one.
it depend on the income of the father, if he earned more, he’ll pay more to help maintain the lifestyle of the child
This case seems to be more about how outrageous child support can be.
He was an engineer, as mentioned multiple times by Dr. Grande.
My father worked as a chemical engineer, if I asked him for $6k in this _lifetime_ he would just laugh. Like Lloyd, he’s also a total narcissist funnily enough.
Dr. Grande, your analysis of this horrible case is brilliant! ...And yes, I do agree with you that the daughter should get 20 years.
At least…
@@ProfessorNorris1
Definitely more than 20.
@@tootsie3612 yes… it’s horrifying
The girl getting let off easy, could be due to her lawyer using her case to make a deal with the prosecutor on a different case, involving one of his other clients. You go easy on her, and I won't fight as hard for my other client in this completely separate case, which you are also prosecuting". It happens on a daily basis in the American "Justice" System. Unethical? Yes. But unethical is the name of the game for American lawyers!
*execution
"Gravity assisted demise" haha I literally couldn't have said it better myself. Good stuff sir
He projects way too much for a "professional psychologist".
I think he’s not allowed to say the s word on TH-cam.
No. He can't say that word on TH-cam. There are a LOT of censored words on TH-cam.
So funny!
@@Noorie79 haha murder hilarious.
Yeah definitely agree that the daughter should have gotten more prison time. That sad what her father did but she too is responsible for the murder of her mother.
Great video Dr Grande. Have a nice weekend!!
Nope, she’s the child, he’s the (supposed) adult. His fault 100%.
And the same to all of you.
@Harriet the spy
WRONG, She was an adult and going to college when she did what she did, therefore your argument about her being a “child” doesnt work.
@@kbcguevo69 it's so easy to be manipulated by your parent though, even as an adult. He poisoned her mind and even threatened suicide. She probably thought she had to do it to save her dad's life. That's a lot of pressure for someone so young. She probably would have never killed anyone without him.
@@daniellelopez3342 She was under the father's influence and groomed since birth to obey him. The court must have taken that into consideration. She was still a teenager at the time of the crime. The prosecutor needed her evidence and did the usual thing with the plea deal. This young woman will need a great deal of psychiatric help going forward.
I keep thinking about the other two daughters😔. How traumatizing must it have been to lose your mother, father and probably the sister too due to this nightmare of a case...
As always thank you dr. Grande for your great analysis!
I don't remember hearing about this. Love when you cover things I'm not familiar with.
Yes this is just a beautiful story. :/
@@stormcorrosion176 comprehension problems?
@@tross8863 ikr lol
Dr Grande, you have become my new comfort channel to watch over the last few months and I’m very grateful for your amazing content 💓
You’re comforted by eloquently descriptions of murders and what could have happened in cases like these?
@@burprobrox9134 referring more so to the fact that Todd has a calming demeanour and none of the over the top bells and whistles that some other channels do
Love this channel too
The humor in your videos is amazing. I almost can't handle it.
I am now in my sixties and remain inexplicably intimidated by my father. It was common to be spanked when I was growing up and I never felt physically abused. But to this day, he has a loud voice and an irrational temper. My mother is still emotionally remote, though the marriage is still strong in their 90s. Dad was the parent we turned to for nurturing because he loved us, and my siblings and I still fight for his unpredictable affection. I have a successful marriage, a successful career, and 2 adult children. But when Dad shows up at my door demanding something - anything - I literally do not have the power to turn him down. (His demands are never sexual.) At 20, I would have expected leniency even for murder, though I would have begged Dad to change his mind for his own sake.
He should not show up at your door demanding stuff. You have your own life, now.
Maybe listen to some videos about how to set and stick to appropriate boundaries.
@@bluecollarlit It's really hard to do that considering her parents are in their 90s. Come on now.
It's past time for you to put your Dad in a proper place. He's a toxic personality. I went through this with my Dad. You can free yourself. Jesus can help you.
What people do to each other continues to shock me😔Thanks Dr G for another good analysis🥰♥️♥️
Another Dr. Grande Gem at 9:22: "He was threatening to experience a gravitationally-assisted demise." 👏😆 You SLAY, Dr. G!
This was so good, you rarely see the father daughter duo! Thank you!
Oh Dr. G..."A gravitationally assisted demise??"" Seriously...what are we going to do with you!
You have to wonder how anyone can think that murdering another person is a viable, logical, and efficient solution to your problems and that you are so much more clever than everyone else that you will never ever get caught.
Money... it's that simple n ruthless fukka, insurance!
I just want to point out that the doctor’s math was way off. $6,000/month is $72,000 per year.
Agree. Amateurs should realize they will miss some obvious clues that law enforcement professionals will have seen many times. Like when criminals fake a burglary to cover up a homicide; LE has seen thousands of burglaries, so they know a fake one when they see it. The odds are really good that a crime will eventually be solved. Technology keeps evolving.
@UCk8C9sI-HvmlWMcmv7iTDYA Even just the total randomness of criminal investigation.....people have been stopped by a patrolman for a broken taillight, and there's a body in the car. Or received a ticket while committing the crime, and been IDed by the ticket, like David Berkowitz. The odds are against anyone successfully committing a crime. It does happen, but who would risk it if they were thinking straight?
@@evelynwaugh4053 Not just obvious clues. CSI is a constantly evolving art which adapts to each new iteration criminals concoct to outwit the system. No matter how clever they think they are are the cops are leagues ahead and, unbeknownst to the criminals, running circles around them. How far ahead the cops are will only become obvious when the evidence is ultimately revealed at trial.
I'm sorry, but this case overstrains my ability to feel and show empathy for humans. Nevertheless, enjoy your weekend everyone out there. Doctor, don't work so hard, I'm constantly worried about your health, when you put so much videos out. Enjoy the nature. You aren't a robot, you need sun and to enjoy yourself. 🌳🌴🌻🌞
❤️✌️
I always just remember that 99% of humans are decent.
@@crochunter35 I don't know, the girl choose the father sides, and I know nothing about her. Is it okay that I felt nothing? because all of you have this weird feeling of empathy towards an unknown stranger that probably didn't even care about her family?
@@HomesteadGirls 99 percent?! I think youre being a lil generous there
@@HomesteadGirls Most people are mediocre. They aren't bad or good. There's a lot more good than bad, but there isn't too much of either. The mediocre ones tend to treat might as making right. It's easier than thinking it through, being brave, etc. And the few bad do a lot of bad.
"A gravitationally assisted demise." The Dr has the best humor, stone faced delivery in addition, makes me lmao.
Did he make that up? I was wondering if it was jargon. Psychobabble is always droll to the uninitiated.
@@lisaschuster9187 , idk if he made it up or heard it before but instead of saying jumping to his death, he just used a clever play on words.
@@lisaschuster9187 you were so busy trying to seem smart you missed the joke, that's funny to me
@@rockyevans1584, but I are smart!
@@lisaschuster9187 anyone who starts a sentence with a comma is, no doubt
I would be interested in seeing when he signed off on his plea deal. I wonder if he bargained his daughter's lighter charge/sentence in lieu of him agreeing to life. She definitely should have served more time.
EXCELLENT QUESTION. I was wondering where the defense attorneys were, too.
that was my first thought
No, he’s never done anything to help his daughter. He threw her under the bus at every opportunity to save himself.
No. Nys does not have death penalty.
Sounds like loyd was a perpetrator of something called parental alienation. I was a nanny for a family where that was occurring and I actually wrote a chapter in a book where the father wrote about parental alienation. It is really sad and it only hurts the kids.
Yes, I know. My NPD ex spouse did that to me. So true.
Lloyd, by the way, not Loyd. Its a Welsh name, where LL is one letter. LLOYD.
which book? and what chapter did you write?
@@mjremy2605Non-Picturable Dick? Btw it's ex-spouse. There's a hyphen.
@@mjremy2605 never knew it was welsh. learned something new from a random comment. thanks :)
@Candice Elizabeth How horrible. May you find peace.😔🙏
I really hope we dont hear of this girl killing a boyfriend in 5 years
Or kill with him 😅
Nah it will be reported as suicide.
Amen.
Ummm... or helping the bf to kill.
@@gabrielamartiniuc6322 or ..trapping the ex gf to kill the bf
Are you kidding me? Only 2 years in prison? That is injustice!
Maybe they heard about the $6000/month he was paying…
@@privateprivate8366 She is the victim? Father was abusive, but there is no excuse for her what she decided to do. It's insane! She is guilty of murdering her own mother or at least helping a lot her father to execute it. So sad, I hope her sister get some courage to reinvestigate that! If she is not totally broken by now
@@zuverzagmail I don't think he will be paying from jail. They screwed up all
@@privateprivate8366 At the time of murder she wasn't a kid anymore. But when I look at their photos, daughter has pretty much the same facial expression as her father. Maybe inherited mental illness or personality disorder, agression?Partners in crime for sure!
She's a girl and she's white. Those things matter.
This is a really sick twisted case, a father and daughter planning and carrying out the murder of the "MOTHER"...........it would give you chills.
I would add covert incest here. Dr G, ur thoughts?
This case reminded me of the Cinnamon Brown thing a few years back. Yikes😵
It might give a NORMAL person chills.
How a narc or abuser can coarse the child
Good morning Dr Grande. I've never heard of this case , but l agree, the daughter should have got 20yrs for her part of the crime. Thank you Dr Grande.
What did we do to deserve such frequent uploads lately? 😍 I feel like I'm being spoiled
Watched this one unfold and the legal proceedings. Thanks for the extra details. I appreciate your research always.
You had me at “father/ daughter murder team”.
😂
Dang, Doc! I took a month off of social media, and when I get back, you are already closing in on a million subs! BIIIG congratulations! ❤️
TH-cam counts as social media?
@@yourinnerlawyer4035 I guess the comments sections do, a bit...I like to socialize in here...I meet really funny people!
@@OtterMunchy 🤔 Yes.
just got your serial killer psychology book in the mail and i just see you've uploaded! i'm in for a Dr. Grande filled day :))
Nice!
To bad he didn't narrate
Somewhere out there in the universe somewhere maybe even another dimension, but it warms my heart knowing that a Dr. Todd Venti has a chance of really existing
Great analysis, Dr. Grande! I very much agree that she got off way too easy for such an unthinkable crime!
Hope you're taking as much care of yourself as you are to those plants! ♡
I've watched Kick Ass before, so I'm basically a scholar on the subject of father/daughter murder teams
Isn't the lead actor from that movie married to someone who is more than 20 years older than him? Weird.
@@meumnomen one word: Hollywood
@Sweettt!
The wife was 43 and he was 20 when they had their baby.
That's quite an age gap.
I sat here for a while trying to figure out how she wouldn't be the person she was raised to be. She was much younger though. Maybe a few years would add some reason? Yeah, you just broke my brain.
@@kingayy9267 They were both legal adults; ergo, it's nobody's business but theirs.
I do find your stories informative, humourous at times and always impressed by your knowledge and description of the use of firearms!
I missed the murder part of the description, thought it would a heart warming video of a father and daughter team.
Oh yeah, LMAO!
"He was threatening them with a gravitationally assisted demise." I've never heard anyone refer to throwing a temper tantrum more eloquently, by threatening to jump to his death like a forlorn teenage girl.
I don't think the kids the one that said it...
@@sandracmyers yeah I know he's talking about the the father. I said he was acting like a teenag girl. Generally women jump to their death.
@@mariagrace817 Women? I didn't know that.🤔
He'd groomed her, her whole life. Manipulation on such a scale is absolutely mind altering. People really underestimate it. He probably really built an unnatural hatred in her for her mother. Could even be narc golden child syndrome. 10-20 is fair with parole on the table but with intensive therapy. :/
Agreed.
Yea I think the whole "she was 19" argument fails to see that she was being groomed for many years as a minor, and her mental state by 19 was unlikely to be anything resembling normal. Hell she was physically abused. I think she probably could have gotten a couple more years but in the end I think she's a victim too.
Parental alienation is not an uncommon psychologically abusive response in a divorce. Extremely destructive .
I agree! Abused children are stunted in their problem solving and decision making skills. Putting her in prison would’ve been a nightmare for her. She was probably afraid of her dad as well
@@kibirdie sometimes abused children are excellent at problem solving and critical thinking despite their difficult backgrounds. You can’t paint them all with the same brush.
Wow. Made it within 20 seconds of posting. Love your analysis of cases like these!!! Almost to 1 million Dr. Grande!!
This seems like a horrible case of parental alienation. Although I do feel that the daughter was old enough to be held accountable. I certainly agree that she should have gotten way more time than what she did. Tragic case all around.
On another note- You did visit the Corning Museum of Glass! How awesome, I heard that you can even “Make your own glass!” This place has been on my wish list for quite some time.🙂
Thank you for another great video Dr. Grande.❤️
Another great episode, Doc!
A plea deal for life without parole? Yikes.
Was this the one in which the girl was a terrible actress on the call with the police? That call was HILARIOUS. Girl went from crying to normal in less than a single second.
"So called lie detector test"
"Gravitationally-assisted demise"
That's the good stuff.
No. He was going to jump from a parking garage, after missing the lie detector test. They tackled him and cuffed him. Good.
Hello Dr. Grande, I very much appreciate your videos. Your presentation is simple, well crafted and easy to watch, thank you for taking the time to share your hard work. Well done!
I’ve a question for you…in the beginning of each video you say…”Just a reminder I’m not diagnosing anybody in this video, only speculating about what could be happening in a situation like this”. However, you do proceed to diagnose those in the video in the exact situation they are in, not one like it. Only curious, not criticizing. Again, thank you for your hard work. Cheers!
Shame Lloyd didn't jump.
Would have spared the taxpayers. I really struggle to access any compassion for him and his choices. As for Kerrie, what a creepy young lady.
I wonder how the other two daughters will fare now, particularly the youngest, who was in the house when her mother was murdered, survivor's guilt and all.
He does not deserve 3 hots and a cot and lots of luxuries. An education if he doesn't have one. It's crazy. The daughter needed some serious time. 30-40 years, at least.
Yeah it was in my neighborhood I just was feeling sorry for the people who would have to clean it up
Pretty dramatic for Princeton lol
Too bad he didn’t get bad case of concussion when the police tackled him..
Thank you for being so industrious and informative! Always looking forward to the video of the day!
"He was threatening himself with a gravitationally assisted demise...."
If I'm the cop I'm telling him to jump.
Yeah but then we have to clean it up.
Princeton is nice.
Easier if he had gone to Brooklyn
This is a disturbing case. I watched another documentary about it and the forensic evidence was compelling. Thank you Dr Grande as always for your insightful analysis!💖
Thank u so much for keeping me up on all the interesting stories of the day- I'm too busy to know a lot of the timely happenings- have you done Nick Gordon, Bobby Kristina's boyfriend- he must have an interesting story! I know some, but am sure I'm missing a lot!!
Another great video, Dr. G! This was such a sad case. I feel so much compassion for Karrie and her sisters and horrible for their poor mother, of course. While I agree that Karrie received a light sentence, I'm hopeful that with the right help and therapy she will be able to be a productive adult. I also think that the child and spousal support laws need to be changed, perhaps we'd see less people murdering their families. Love your content, Dr. Grande 🥰 😚.
"Attempting a gravitationally-assisted demise"
Pure gold
Dr, thank you so much for your effort! I love this content and your professionalism and sense of humor. Love from Portugal!
Hello Portugal!
I didn’t know this took place in Corning and Rochester. That’s where I live. That dad is so creepy and the relationship with his daughter makes my skin crawl.
Yes for sure! I live near too.
Probably incest related
$6,000/month to an ex is cruel and unconscionable as an engineer and when he's in debt. He's not rich and will always be behind. It cages a person in and imo would make normal people rage. Murdering for gain is much worse.
This feels like a 2006 lifetime movie.
Dr Grand you are filled with knoewledge and wisdom Your cup runneth over. You are a genius.
"To prove his negotiating skills were as deficient as his parenting skills" That line is pure gold, and of course along with "gravitationally assisted demise"
This is a really good episode. Can I request that Dr Todd Grande do one on Phuc Vo in San Pablo, CA? His wife and MIL are missing but the latter's body was just found in the Oakland Estuary. The husband has already been arrested. I think it is going to be an interesting case and we can also peek into the interesting culture of the Vietnamese-American.
I’m curious as to how much the “middle child syndrome” may have played into this. I also appreciate your insight on how ‘value’ plays into ‘justice’ as this is a dirty game within the judicial system.
She is above average in terms of looks, so the persecutors decided to let her off the hook. Beauty matters in the judicial system. Ougly people usually sentenced longer prison term than beautiful people. what a sick society we live in.
@@kinnyp.2095 she is average looking to me.
I couldn’t agree more Dr. Grande! Especially about the precedent this sets.
Imagine how it must feel for a defendant to be told by the judge you’re never going to be free again. I’d have a full meltdown, I’d probably do a stool in my pants then suffer a massive embolism.
Seems to me life without gets dished out all the time, it’s no deterrent to crime it’s pure retribution, it’s clear murderers need punished, we’re in 2021 there’s got to be a better way.
What would be your suggestion?
I got the **-dirt on Corning Ware striped blue design-*. *No wonder you put your fabulous pinstripe shirt on display. No wonder family situations are so delicate. *No wonder you give the best analysis,* both on the crime and the outcome. Thankyou Dr. Grande..💙. Thanks for two excellent cases in one day.💙
Turquoise Blue Stripe Milk Glass PYREX Corning Ware 1950s | Etsy
Just gorgeous! Grab these before I decide to swap my current set for these!
Happy 4th, Dr. G!! Thanks again for uploading on a holiday weekend. :)
It’s amazing how big you grew your channel to! Congratulations, keep up the great work
Wow. Did not know about this…and I live in central NY! 😳 Awful! Agree with you that the daughter’s sentence was way too lenient. 💕💖💕👍🏼 Also agree that Corning Glass museum, tours and demos are great. Definitely worth a visit❣️
I so agree with you.....
Just too dark without the very needed retribution...,Karrie was not a child, she knew right from wrong ... and chose wrong..,
She could always insist that her father be hospitalized for his depression...
She’s a damaged and damaging person being released in society...
It’s very troubling...
Very insightful.....paying alimony ; paying with his life...
Does anyone else feel like Dr Grande just rolls out of bed, puts his glasses on and sits down to make a video? Then he posts it, closes his laptop and gets back in the bed.
It’s all love, Dr Grande! Love the content!
Choses a beautiful shirt, arranges the cacti and pats Bella!
Wow, so glad that both of my parents were equally distasteful when they divorced so I didn't feel pressured to pick sides. Or, you know, *help one kill the other,* as one does.
Waiting for serial killer book part II (hopefully)! Looking good, Dr. Grande, lots of love from Germany as always!
“Gravitationally assisted demise”? You are killing me, Dr. Grande!
"Perhaps this prosecutor really wanted to be a defense attorney, and this was his big chance to act like one" LMAOOOO this fixed my terrible day XDD
Im really thankful for Dr. Grande's verbal footnotes. Like when he said " ...so two days after the court date..." or "...so the door had glass panes..." . Little things like that makes it much easier to follow the stories that are often rich in detail. Once I've heard a story on here I don't even bother to do additional research. Im not saying Dr. Grande is perfect, but I AM saying that this is probably as close as you'll get to the truth without having been there yourself lol.
Very interesting case you don’t hear cases like this too often!
Thankfully!
@@kathyclark8274 That’s true!
@beswick1111 Well, maybe not a disorder just a choice. We humans are limited, constantly being paranoid wont make us move forward. So, it'll be best for us to extend our hand to something that we know could potentially bite us. Active bravery my friend. Step into the unknown, a brave man can't be brave without a fear. Some of them might just believe on govt because lack of insight. But some do it because of choice.
We may not hear about it in the context of murder, but it's more common than understood having one parent turn a child against the other parent. It is a severe form of psychological abuse.
kind of scary that they let someone capable of helping someone else knowingly murder someone out of prison so quickly.........
As a parent one of the most important things to say to you’re children is that you are not a god you are just another imperfect human being and an imperfect parent. The only perfect thing is the love you have for your child
I totally agree. I've always told my kids that they were unique but not more "special" than anyone else. I taught them that if someone asked them what they wanted to be when they grew up, say a pony. That, "your special so you can be whatever you want to be," is a lie.
So do you think this father had perfect love to his children?
@@trishayamada807 I have no idea. I can’t make a window into another’s soul
@@j0nnyism I can say that his "love" for his daughters is really far to perfect. The facts show that the only one he has ever loved is himself.😠
You have called this spot on, Dr. Grande. Karrie needed to spend more time in jail.
Wow, outrageous that Karrie serves such a short sentence.
This is a great review and evaluation of this case. And I completely agree with you. There is a true risk of *this kind* of *actual* limited accountability. Yes, it sets a dangerous precedent *and* what does *she* now believe about accountability when it comes to her actions. This is clearly a young woman susceptible to manipulation in combination with the fact that she has shown a very low level of remorse and empathy. So now, she is out of prison, a very young woman, leaves this entire episode of her life with a pretty dramatic lesson learned. She aided in the murder of her mother, helped to conceal the crime, then helped authorities assign all the accountability (his *and her own* ) to her father and at 22 years old, it was all over and she's fine and free. We can never fully predict human behavior but if this young woman were in my life at all, I would keeping a very close eye on her. Someone in her position might feel like they could get by with anything.
Thanks once again, Dr. It is overwhelmingly terrible how far can a twisted mind go for evil purposes. I we don't learn and mature as humans, we are screwed. Thank you so much.
Amazing as always Dr.Grande!!! How does someone have so much power over their daughter?
The sentence was despicably light, not a deterrent or a punishment. Kerri was a real piece of work, ultimately she betrayed both parents in the end........family members would be advised to watch their backs around her going forward.
Karrie was just like her father Lloyd…..total narcissist! Lloyd knew Karrie would do whatever he wanted because she was just like him! Both of them should have received life in prison! I hope Karrie’s life sucks!
@@joycemarie9702 I agree that they both should've been locked up for life, she rolled on her Dad pretty easily in the end......I wonder if her old man was willing to accept life without parole because he knew that he'd lost his one true confidante when Kerri betrayed him to the cops? I would have like his trial to go ahead out of a sense of morbid curiosity about how she would have performed on the witness stand......seems that she mastered the art of manipulation from her pops & the prosecutor bought into her narrative hook line and sinker.
Love Corning Glass, especially vintage Corning. Off topic.
Ha- hearing that also made me remember when I was in college near myrtle beach and my mom and grandmother came down to visit me- we went to the outlet stores and Corning was one of the first they walked into. I was SO ANNOYED as a 17 yr old kid but now that I’m 43, I so get it. Lol
Yup. I have some old Corning casserole pans and measuring cups. But that's it.
Great break down! What a sad story! I couldn't imagine birthing a child that would one day take my life. Horrific!!
Excellent analysis as usual. I too find it unconscionable an adult daughter participate in the crime rather than report soonest opportunity. Appalling.
Thank you, Dr. Grande. Have a very nice weekend!
The poor mother! Such betrayal all around😩 Great analysis of this dreadful case Doc!🙌👏👏👏
I just found your series and I enjoy true crime, but I love ASMR, and your channel is unintentional ASMR! Subbing for sure!!
Video suggestion: Could you please do a series on the effects of different parenting styles (f.e. the 4: authoritative, permissive, authoritarian, and neglectful) and practical things one can do to overcome the effects? Thank you and keep up the good work :)
100k in debt and paying 6k month in child support? Does the family court not calculate debt into ordered payments?
Ah the gravity assisted demise technique. I've heard it often leads to Sudden Kinetic Inertia Shift Syndrome. More commonly known as SKISS ;-)!
I love how Dr. Grande and That Chapter often discuss the same people. Always interesting to get different takes on the subject
"gravity-assisted demise." ROFL....hilarious! Happy 4th Dr. Grande
I just realized I haven’t subscribed 🥺sorry my dude! I hit that button 😬 Im watching this video while I’m putting away laundry lol.
Omg a Dr Grande video at 9 in the morning, wwhhhhhhhaaaaaaatt???
I grew up near Corning, and we’d go there on field trips all the time in elementary school.
I hope you went to the Canadian side of Niagara Falls! It’s really pretty-especially at night when it’s all lit up.
IKR!!! I'm so jealous! I'd love to see Niagara Falls and the Corning plant...and so many other things nearby where you grew up.
Maybe one day. 🤞🏻
The Canadian side is naturally going to be more stunning, partly due to the fact Canucks take great pride in their homeland, are death on litter, and have numerous social programs to uplift and enrich their citizenry rather than allowing them to fall thru the cracks unnoticed and unappreciated.