The problem with secrets is that they dont do them consistently at all. So when they decide to support them, they have to start from scratch every single time
@@FlareIsGone I think rogue just has kinda spotty support for some reason. For mage, though.. I think it's more to do with mage secrets just being so hard to play around and there are often quite a few power-outliers. So theyd rather rotate than turn secrets too annoying(see: experience in wild).
Ice Block doesn't need to be nerfed; it needs to be removed from the game altogether (same with Time Out. Nigh un-interactable immunity should not be in the game).
Since you briefly mentioned auras replacing secrets for Paladin, I thought I'd ask what other class/es do you think would work as being aura-centered the way Mage/Hunter/etc. are for secrets?
Secret mage rant inc: I dont play wild and I hate secret mage with a passion because when I used to watch roffle every other matchup was secret mage. I find it incredibly boring to cheat out secrets so you can cheat out other stuff, all flavour or interesting design goes out the window. You can design any mechanic support this way, that's what makes it boring. Not to mention that I dont see a thematic reason for mages to have secrets outside of counterspell. Hunters lay traps, rogues play dirty and disrupt and even paladins can be somewhat justified if you see secrets as divine intervention or aid in the last second. Counterspell is only a secret because HS lacks any other way of implementing such a concept and that is why we are stuck with ice block and objection. If mages can have secrets any class thematically can have secrets, just ask yourself what a class would do if it could react in a split second.
I kinda wish Paladin would get secrets again. If done well they were a nice addition to their arsenal. I get that Auras have basically replaced them but its not quite the same tbh
Auras are a paladin thing. Secrets are strange for paladin. Paladins are holy and loyal combattants. Surprise isn't a paladin thing. Rogue is much more suited for secrets.
@@Staklihen Counterpoint: White/Blue Control Decks in Magic. On the Hearthstone front, Cheat Death and Getaway Kodo (and the one that summons the horse) prove that secrets can represent superior tactics and outmaneuvering the opponent, or even strokes of fate (or divine intervention)
Product 9 is one of my favorite callback cards, given the height of my love for the game before I first quit was Boomsday, the fact it synergizes really well with Subject 9 is quite good.
They should do an expansion that has homages to Magic the Gathering (like how Kobolds has for D&D) and give secrets and/or actions that resolve on the opponent's turn (like Pro Gamer) to everyone.
I wish that some secrets were tradable. THe problem with secret decks is always the same: Either, you get too many secrets, leaving you with few payoff cards, only weak plays and making all the cards that depend on having secrets in deck much, much worse. Or you get not enough secrets. But thing is, I feel this is tied to the former: You cannot run too many secrets, after all, cause then you'll run into the first problem. SO people cut secrets. A few tradable secrets would greatly help. They would add far less secret-bloat to your deck. They enemy also still wouldnt know which secret you play(even if there were only a single tradable secret), cause they only see it when you trade, not when you get it back. Of course, the secrets would need to be weaker. But weaker doesn't mean useless - still a secret-activator at minimum. And it should have an at least useful effect, even if not the most powerful.
I don't get the "class identity" argument for explaining which classes get secrets Paladin getting secrets made more sense than Mage and yet Mage keeps them Just give us wacky random shit like Warrior and DK secrets
Not gonna lie, my fav hearthstone card is probably boulderfist oger. Jokes aside, I really like odd pala. Its the deck that made me jump from standard to wild, and i really loved steward of darkshire and vinecleaver. Its a pity they dont make the cut anymore.
did cover synergies? and in none of the videos i've ever done have I gone over neutrals unless they're especially strong eg Neptulon, but neutral secret counter cards are bad and have always been bad so theres no point to talk about them
It’d be cool if they didn’t keep giving rogue secret support in standard ;-; Secret rogue would need the most nuts cards to be relevant in wild and they don’t get them so it’s just a waste of expac card slots
i really like Marin the Fox. I like that the 1 stop shop for shenanigans has a damage cost to pay, just wish Marin himself was a touch cheaper or generated more treasures
Personally, I do not have a probelm with objection, but i do get why some people hate it. But secret mage shouldn't suffer because of Objection, if it truly is the probelm, then nerf objection to the point where it's unplayable and give me back kabal lackey. Secret mage wasn't that broken and it was keeping a lot of deck in check. I belive that secret mage would make the curent meta healthier. You also need to remeber that fun is an objective thing, for example I find secret mage quit to fun to play.
@@Bolvar_ the thing about secret mage and what makes it unfun to play against is that its kinda like playing yugioh, if the matchup is favorable you kinda just stomp the opponent with no hope of doing anything back, and that total lack of agency to know that you can’t play is frustrating.
secrets are the best card archetype. there is no greater feeling in this world that the euphoria experienced when an even shaman plays an anchor totem into your ZOMBEEEES!!!
Had a mage play 4 ice block in a game vs me... but they played both apprentices into my snipes when trying to go off, and insta conceded. I laughed so hard.
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
The problem with secrets is that they dont do them consistently at all. So when they decide to support them, they have to start from scratch every single time
yeah its a big issue for rogue and mage especially, they almost always keep secrets in standard for hunter so its a bit less there
@@FlareIsGone I think rogue just has kinda spotty support for some reason.
For mage, though.. I think it's more to do with mage secrets just being so hard to play around and there are often quite a few power-outliers. So theyd rather rotate than turn secrets too annoying(see: experience in wild).
I'm kinda sad but also a bit glad that paladin doesn't get secrets anymore
They need more good payoff card and not more secrets, the current secret they got is good enough it just have no good card that rewards you playing it
Sadly the design space for “1 mana secret” is a lot more narrow than the 2-3 mana ones, when accounting for balance
Ice Block doesn't need to be nerfed; it needs to be removed from the game altogether (same with Time Out. Nigh un-interactable immunity should not be in the game).
Since you briefly mentioned auras replacing secrets for Paladin, I thought I'd ask what other class/es do you think would work as being aura-centered the way Mage/Hunter/etc. are for secrets?
none its a paladin mechanic just like sigils are for dh
5:25 awww, cat wanted to join the video :)
Secret mage rant inc:
I dont play wild and I hate secret mage with a passion because when I used to watch roffle every other matchup was secret mage. I find it incredibly boring to cheat out secrets so you can cheat out other stuff, all flavour or interesting design goes out the window. You can design any mechanic support this way, that's what makes it boring. Not to mention that I dont see a thematic reason for mages to have secrets outside of counterspell. Hunters lay traps, rogues play dirty and disrupt and even paladins can be somewhat justified if you see secrets as divine intervention or aid in the last second. Counterspell is only a secret because HS lacks any other way of implementing such a concept and that is why we are stuck with ice block and objection. If mages can have secrets any class thematically can have secrets, just ask yourself what a class would do if it could react in a split second.
Give me secret warrior.
I kinda wish Paladin would get secrets again. If done well they were a nice addition to their arsenal. I get that Auras have basically replaced them but its not quite the same tbh
Auras are a paladin thing. Secrets are strange for paladin. Paladins are holy and loyal combattants. Surprise isn't a paladin thing. Rogue is much more suited for secrets.
@@Staklihen Counterpoint: White/Blue Control Decks in Magic. On the Hearthstone front, Cheat Death and Getaway Kodo (and the one that summons the horse) prove that secrets can represent superior tactics and outmaneuvering the opponent, or even strokes of fate (or divine intervention)
Hunter is still my favorite use of secrets, strong and it feels nice to play around them. Mage and Paladin oh my yogg can be deleted
Not even mentioning Mysterious Challenger in a video about secrets should be a crime
sword of the fallen has been a better card longer than challenger was at this point, it was even good in showdown
@@FlareIsGone Sure, I just figured it at least deserves a mention, being the best deck at the time and also being a really iconic card.
I get that paladin secrets weren’t very flavorful but damm give them a bone.
Product 9 is one of my favorite callback cards, given the height of my love for the game before I first quit was Boomsday, the fact it synergizes really well with Subject 9 is quite good.
They should do an expansion that has homages to Magic the Gathering (like how Kobolds has for D&D) and give secrets and/or actions that resolve on the opponent's turn (like Pro Gamer) to everyone.
I wish that some secrets were tradable.
THe problem with secret decks is always the same:
Either, you get too many secrets, leaving you with few payoff cards, only weak plays and making all the cards that depend on having secrets in deck much, much worse.
Or you get not enough secrets. But thing is, I feel this is tied to the former: You cannot run too many secrets, after all, cause then you'll run into the first problem. SO people cut secrets.
A few tradable secrets would greatly help. They would add far less secret-bloat to your deck. They enemy also still wouldnt know which secret you play(even if there were only a single tradable secret), cause they only see it when you trade, not when you get it back.
Of course, the secrets would need to be weaker. But weaker doesn't mean useless - still a secret-activator at minimum. And it should have an at least useful effect, even if not the most powerful.
I don't get the "class identity" argument for explaining which classes get secrets
Paladin getting secrets made more sense than Mage and yet Mage keeps them
Just give us wacky random shit like Warrior and DK secrets
There is this most important bit about secrets that you didn't include in your PowerPoint, but I cannot tell you about it. (It is a secret).
Not gonna lie, my fav hearthstone card is probably boulderfist oger.
Jokes aside, I really like odd pala. Its the deck that made me jump from standard to wild, and i really loved steward of darkshire and vinecleaver. Its a pity they dont make the cut anymore.
Hanar was in brought to core standard the same time they got rid of Paladin secrets. And yea it was weird and didn’t see play.
I want to secret rogue to be good... But the secrets are more supportive than sinergistic or offensive
Shhhhhh quit blabbing they’re supposed to be secrets!
My favorite hearthstone card is Wishing Well.
Hanar had 5 health initially. Just why blizzard
My favourite card is Anyfin Can Happen
I feel like paladin will eventually get secrets again
fav card is probl Unseal the Vault
I really like gattlesnake, it’s an interesting card
Secrets are my most hated part of Hearthstone.
Powerpoint on secrets. But didnt even cover secret synergy/counters in neutral card. My prof would give me a C out of kindness for such work lol
did cover synergies? and in none of the videos i've ever done have I gone over neutrals unless they're especially strong eg Neptulon, but neutral secret counter cards are bad and have always been bad so theres no point to talk about them
It’d be cool if they didn’t keep giving rogue secret support in standard ;-;
Secret rogue would need the most nuts cards to be relevant in wild and they don’t get them so it’s just a waste of expac card slots
Yeah that's why I don't think it should come back, it's just a waste of slots
Al'Akir the Windlord
Where Oh My Yogg 😡😡
did anyone else hear a cat at 1:16?
i really like Marin the Fox. I like that the 1 stop shop for shenanigans has a damage cost to pay, just wish Marin himself was a touch cheaper or generated more treasures
Love secrets
Great video! Love your discussions of the game over the years. My Favorite card is obsidian statue!
🎉 damn
secrets definitely is a more interactive game play style than most of the current archetypes out there. Secret hunter hang in there
What Class would you give 4 mana secrets to?
Wait paladibs no longer have secrets?
Paladins has Auras instead since TITANS.
@@Staklihen ah i see. Havent played for long time so have not kept up
this video reminded me that your channel banner should be the flare card art itd go insane
3:23 Eater of secrets punching the air rn
nice
I miss secret mage, wish they would unnerf kabal lackey
I do not, I hate objection with a passion. Remember that the deck got nerfed for being UNFUN not broken
Personally, I do not have a probelm with objection, but i do get why some people hate it. But secret mage shouldn't suffer because of Objection, if it truly is the probelm, then nerf objection to the point where it's unplayable and give me back kabal lackey. Secret mage wasn't that broken and it was keeping a lot of deck in check. I belive that secret mage would make the curent meta healthier. You also need to remeber that fun is an objective thing, for example I find secret mage quit to fun to play.
@@Bolvar_ the thing about secret mage and what makes it unfun to play against is that its kinda like playing yugioh, if the matchup is favorable you kinda just stomp the opponent with no hope of doing anything back, and that total lack of agency to know that you can’t play is frustrating.
secrets are the best card archetype. there is no greater feeling in this world that the euphoria experienced when an even shaman plays an anchor totem into your ZOMBEEEES!!!
Had a mage play 4 ice block in a game vs me... but they played both apprentices into my snipes when trying to go off, and insta conceded.
I laughed so hard.