So I was at the Durham N Carolina Con a couple weeks ago and finally tracked down a copy of this issue of the Journal. In fact, I bought it from a really cool retailer that has Jim Rugg art on his business card. Can’t remember the dudes names right now. My bad. Kevin Eastman was a guest at the show and I ran into him and his wife in the hallway and we gave each other a big hug. I reached in my bag and pulled out this issue of the Journal and showed it to him and he just said, ‘Oh, God.’ Haha
Jim Mahfood yes! That retailer is Jason Hamlin, Retailer to the Stars! We just got a shoot interview with him and spent an hour going through some cool stuff in his collection.
Food! You read that interview yet? I found it online, saved it to PDF and read it on my phone on my way to Japan a few years ago (The week after I left TMNT) It's so good.
I love Kevin. I’ve never met a more humble dude for all he’s been through. I’ve been working with him on his “Drawing Blood” / “Ragdolls” books (actually finishing the last page of Ragdolls #2 while listening to this), and it’s been so great. 15 year old me is grateful that “never meet your heroes” didn’t apply to him. Great CJ review guys! Come back to DCAF again sometime!
Clay Geerdes was the Godfather of the early mini-comix movement. He published a newsletter called Comix World, midwifed a network of enthusiastic neophytes and printed and distributed (through the mail) everything. If you wrote a letter or sent an order to him, he would immediately recruit you to send some art or contribute to one of his anthologies. He had a wonderful, egalitarian view that everyone could and should draw their own comics. There was a burst of mid-80's coverage in the Journal, including an interview with him in #98. I think for a few issues they ran a regular survey of minis that was pretty extensive.
One of my favorite Comics Journal interviews was the one with Jim Woodring where he told some crazy stories about working with Jack Kirby doing animation. And the one in issue 200 with Charles Schulz is another great one.
There’s a movie from the early 80s called Tank starring James Garner. He has his own tank and fights the system. Kind of like Smokey and the Bandit or Dukes of Hazzard but with a tank. I think that was what Eastman was trying to emulate.
Great video, guys. Very enlightening. Here are some Comics Journal issues that I saved because of their exceptional interviews. Maybe one of these would make a good video as well. #189 - Mike Mignola, #186 - Gil Kane, #172 - Joe Kubert, #135 - Chester Brown, #127 - Bill Watterson, #67 - Harvey Kurtzman Stay awesome!
Great video. I’m late to this one, but really enjoyed it. Funnily enough, Steve Wozniak lives about 2 miles away; I rode past his house today. I’ll ring the bell for you next time and ask if he wants to get in the comix biz. ;-) lol.
I am a prepress tech. $150 in the 90s seems about right. Computer to plate was in its infancy. Back then it was manual color separations, shooting film and contact proofs. Our team was 30+ people back then. That half million dollar machine was probably a Kodak platesetter. With that we were able to do 20 times the work with a team of 4 rather than 30. The prepress company was probably a smart move at the time. With Eastman at the helm it was doomed.
I bought this issue, when I was DEEP into Heavy Metal to find out what happened to TMNT and Laird, boy, this thing blew my mind. Great job for unpacking this! Still have this, it's made many moves over the years!
The ending when Ed asked for the advance was too funny. Speaking of Harlan Ellison have you read his essay Xenogenesis? It's basically Harlan describing his weirdest fan interactions but then he puts the call out to all his famous writer friends to tell the weirdest shit that fans have done to them. Bradbury and Asimov and many others are in there and the stories are creepy and hilarious.
One of the best and most eye-opening Kayfabe episodes yet! I clearly remember the huge "buzz" around the turtles back then. They were the inspiration for so many 80's BW indies. I still have my original lead mini-figures and the fan club kit advertised with the first action figures.
Al Columbia revealed in a 2011 interview that he tore up the artwork for Big Numbers #4 to make a collage for his roomate's band. The band was Sebadoh and they used it as the cover art for an EP that had a very limited release. Here's an old article about the interview: www.cbr.com/the-day-indie-rock-defeated-alan-moore-al-columbia-reveals-what-happened-to-big-numbers-4/
Thanks for the link, great story. I’m not sure I actually believe it because Columbia seems like a fabulist of the first order, but great fucking story anyway.
The Comics Journal interview with Terry Gilliam was informative. Before I read it, I had no idea how broad the influence Harvey Kurzman & Mad Magazine was!
I have learned so much new stuff about Kevin Eastman and his Business practices. Sure I am in awe of his success but at the same time also listening to how Tundra went down makes you re think about what it means to be successful in comics . Sure the Turtles was a Runaway Success but then there is all the Fallout from it . There's a lot to unpack for me as a Mini comics creator . I am probably never going to be as successful as him . I am barely making money right now with what I produce by myself. But this is a video I would go back to ...to learn from . About what not to do in terms of business and publishing
So as I was listening to this a question popped in my head. Have you both ever considered doikg or have you ever done a comic together. I know your individual styles are very different but could prove to be an interesting project
Great discussion! I remember that issue very well. I love the enthusiasm you two bring to the table every time. Outside of the Harlan Ellison interview, I recommend the Tom Sutton interview from issue 230. I haven't read it in many years but I remember it being bugfunk wild and all over the map, just like Sutton's brilliant art!
I worked in the comics industry and knew Clay Geerdes. The way his name is said is: GEAR-DEES. Two syllables. Clay always had his camera, photographed everyone (even me!) but he was a lot older than myself or the women I worked with and he came off a little creepy. That being said, he documented the UG comix scene as few others have, before or since.
As far as the TMNT/Cerebus reprints, from Dave Sim’s point of view is that Eastman and Laird could always reprint it. What Dave was saying is he would not sign any contracts, which is what the lawyers were insisting on. For the return of Kirby’s art, Kirby’s lawyers were insisting that with the return of the artwork, Marvel would be admitting that Kirby co-created all of the characters he co-created. This would allow the lawyers to go back to get money from Marvel. The return of the artwork was far more complicated than just returning the artwork.
Gotta shout out that Tom Spurgeon did the most comprehensive Mat Brinkman interview to date in TCJ #256: Fort Thunder Forever. Completely humanizing and warm interview with the ultimate monster master.
I was not aware Steve Bissette and Rick Veitch were salty over their Mirage work. Steve was sitting next to Jim Lawson at a recent local con and they seemed to be friendly. And Rick continued to work with Kevin at Tundra. Weird.
Found out about this through a friend and I gotta say this is some interesting stuff. Thanks for the hard work. I obviously subbed and look forward to more and listening to the backlog. Keep doing what you’re doing guys! Cheers.
Oddly enough, I had picked this up about a month ago at a comics shop along with CJ issue 137 which just happens to be the creator's rights issue which features Steven Bissette and Scott McCloud. My first issue of the CJ was 118 which was a doozie as it featured interviews with Moebius (the headliner), Alan Moore, and Frank Miller. The Miller and Moore interviews are a sort of postmortem on the ratings controversy which had enveloped comics at that time. The Crumb interview in CJ 121 and the Jeff Smith interview from CJ 173 are also great (173 also has an interview with Mike Diana). Anyway those are probably my favs, buy there are a bunch of good issues that I'm sure I missed!
If you have millions of dollars, its okay to start something small and see it grow, not just blow all your money on something that isn't going to work and is poorly thought out.
Bro This is so interesting. I'm a big Turtle fan, Eastman and Laird fan and I had no idea about this stuff. Holy smokes. The fucking tank? Shiit! Amazing stuff. From what I can follow about Tundra and his endeavors, I mean this is incredible stuff. I never even think about it, I was all about image, when I was younger but older than when I discovered the turtles I was all about Image. Image was like the sickest thing I had heard about artists becoming owners and doing their thing and going head to head with the big dogs. But fucking Eastman and Laird were like years ahead of everyone! And Tundra Comics? I never even heard of Tundra!! Eastman was on one wow. Great piece guys. You got a new fan here. Fucking Heavy Metal?!! I always wondered about what mogul moves if any or just how bananas it was personally for both men, to blow up so hard like that off of their creation.
Yep. I think I pulled it from a Wizard Halloween costume column, but it was probably in Spawn too. There used to be a lot of fan content in that era of Image books - fan art and photos like this. - Jim
Kevin Eastman is an awesome guy. He is currently doing a memoir style comic called Drawing Blood with David Avallone and my friend Ben Bishop. Check it out! www.kickstarter.com/projects/2073065927/kevin-eastmans-drawing-blood-vol-2
Once you are making serious money from your comic then all should be okay, you simple handle each new situation on its own and again if you have plenty of money you should be able to sit down and draw your comic.
So I was at the Durham N Carolina Con a couple weeks ago and finally tracked down a copy of this issue of the
Journal. In fact, I bought it from a really cool retailer that has Jim Rugg art on his business card. Can’t remember the dudes names right now. My bad. Kevin Eastman was a guest at the show and I ran into him and his wife in the hallway and we gave each other a big hug. I reached in my bag and pulled out this issue of the Journal and showed it to him and he just said, ‘Oh, God.’
Haha
Jim Mahfood yes! That retailer is Jason Hamlin, Retailer to the Stars! We just got a shoot interview with him and spent an hour going through some cool stuff in his collection.
Food! You read that interview yet? I found it online, saved it to PDF and read it on my phone on my way to Japan a few years ago (The week after I left TMNT) It's so good.
I love Kevin. I’ve never met a more humble dude for all he’s been through. I’ve been working with him on his “Drawing Blood” / “Ragdolls” books (actually finishing the last page of Ragdolls #2 while listening to this), and it’s been so great. 15 year old me is grateful that “never meet your heroes” didn’t apply to him. Great CJ review guys! Come back to DCAF again sometime!
yeah same goes for me. I met him briefly at an event for the Words & Pictures museum WAY back and he was totally cool. Damn, I miss that museum!
Clay Geerdes was the Godfather of the early mini-comix movement. He published a newsletter called Comix World, midwifed a network of enthusiastic neophytes and printed and distributed (through the mail) everything. If you wrote a letter or sent an order to him, he would immediately recruit you to send some art or contribute to one of his anthologies. He had a wonderful, egalitarian view that everyone could and should draw their own comics. There was a burst of mid-80's coverage in the Journal, including an interview with him in #98. I think for a few issues they ran a regular survey of minis that was pretty extensive.
One of my favorite Comics Journal interviews was the one with Jim Woodring where he told some crazy stories about working with Jack Kirby doing animation. And the one in issue 200 with Charles Schulz is another great one.
You gotta give Eastman credit for going into things with good intentions at least.
Sounds as if "Tundra" was more or less the comic book equivalent of the Beatles' Apple Records. "Incredible story," indeed.
There’s a movie from the early 80s called Tank starring James Garner. He has his own tank and fights the system. Kind of like Smokey and the Bandit or Dukes of Hazzard but with a tank. I think that was what Eastman was trying to emulate.
Great video, guys. Very enlightening. Here are some Comics Journal issues that I saved because of their exceptional interviews. Maybe one of these would make a good video as well. #189 - Mike Mignola, #186 - Gil Kane, #172 - Joe Kubert, #135 - Chester Brown, #127 - Bill Watterson, #67 - Harvey Kurtzman Stay awesome!
Great video. I’m late to this one, but really enjoyed it. Funnily enough, Steve Wozniak lives about 2 miles away; I rode past his house today. I’ll ring the bell for you next time and ask if he wants to get in the comix biz. ;-) lol.
I am a prepress tech. $150 in the 90s seems about right. Computer to plate was in its infancy. Back then it was manual color separations, shooting film and contact proofs. Our team was 30+ people back then. That half million dollar machine was probably a Kodak platesetter. With that we were able to do 20 times the work with a team of 4 rather than 30. The prepress company was probably a smart move at the time. With Eastman at the helm it was doomed.
I bought this issue, when I was DEEP into Heavy Metal to find out what happened to TMNT and Laird, boy, this thing blew my mind. Great job for unpacking this!
Still have this, it's made many moves over the years!
The ending when Ed asked for the advance was too funny. Speaking of Harlan Ellison have you read his essay Xenogenesis? It's basically Harlan describing his weirdest fan interactions but then he puts the call out to all his famous writer friends to tell the weirdest shit that fans have done to them. Bradbury and Asimov and many others are in there and the stories are creepy and hilarious.
One of the best and most eye-opening Kayfabe episodes yet! I clearly remember the huge "buzz" around the turtles back then. They were the inspiration for so many 80's BW indies. I still have my original lead mini-figures and the fan club kit advertised with the first action figures.
That was amazing..... man. Thanks, guys!
I would recommend the Steve Bissette interview that came out before this one. It was pretty much what destroyed his relationship with Alan Moore.
Al Columbia revealed in a 2011 interview that he tore up the artwork for Big Numbers #4 to make a collage for his roomate's band. The band was Sebadoh and they used it as the cover art for an EP that had a very limited release.
Here's an old article about the interview:
www.cbr.com/the-day-indie-rock-defeated-alan-moore-al-columbia-reveals-what-happened-to-big-numbers-4/
Thanks for the link, great story. I’m not sure I actually believe it because Columbia seems like a fabulist of the first order, but great fucking story anyway.
The Comics Journal interview with Terry Gilliam was informative. Before I read it, I had no idea how broad the influence Harvey Kurzman & Mad Magazine was!
Been waiting for this one!!
I have learned so much new stuff about Kevin Eastman and his Business practices.
Sure I am in awe of his success but at the same time also listening to how Tundra went down makes you re think about what it means to be successful in comics . Sure the Turtles was a Runaway Success but then there is all the Fallout from it . There's a lot to unpack for me as a Mini comics creator . I am probably never going to be as successful as him . I am barely making money right now with what I produce by myself. But this is a video I would go back to ...to learn from . About what not to do in terms of business and publishing
Please review The Comics Journal issue 174. Frazetta the Interview! I would love to hear you guys discuss it.
So good and informative. Thank you for highlighting this insight and comic history.
So as I was listening to this a question popped in my head. Have you both ever considered doikg or have you ever done a comic together. I know your individual styles are very different but could prove to be an interesting project
A great read into the interview. It's so sad that he hemorrhaged money but I'm glad he appears to be okay today.
Great discussion! I remember that issue very well. I love the enthusiasm you two bring to the table every time. Outside of the Harlan Ellison interview, I recommend the Tom Sutton interview from issue 230. I haven't read it in many years but I remember it being bugfunk wild and all over the map, just like Sutton's brilliant art!
It's actually available of the TCJ website for free, the interview that is www.tcj.com/an-odd-man-out-tom-sutton/
Turtle money is real money. Props to him and his team for all his successes.
I worked in the comics industry and knew Clay Geerdes. The way his name is said is: GEAR-DEES. Two syllables. Clay always had his camera, photographed everyone (even me!) but he was a lot older than myself or the women I worked with and he came off a little creepy. That being said, he documented the UG comix scene as few others have, before or since.
Tundra and Mirage were in the same building, which is crazy
Very good breakdown of this interview.
Excellent episode guys! Business is an art too.
As far as the TMNT/Cerebus reprints, from Dave Sim’s point of view is that Eastman and Laird could always reprint it. What Dave was saying is he would not sign any contracts, which is what the lawyers were insisting on.
For the return of Kirby’s art, Kirby’s lawyers were insisting that with the return of the artwork, Marvel would be admitting that Kirby co-created all of the characters he co-created. This would allow the lawyers to go back to get money from Marvel. The return of the artwork was far more complicated than just returning the artwork.
Brilliant. Thank you.
Kevin Eastman and Peter Larid created Teenage Muntant Ninga Turtles and HeavyMetal magazine!
Gotta shout out that Tom Spurgeon did the most comprehensive Mat Brinkman interview to date in TCJ #256: Fort Thunder Forever. Completely humanizing and warm interview with the ultimate monster master.
This was fantastic. And TMNT for Palladium books is a great game
I was not aware Steve Bissette and Rick Veitch were salty over their Mirage work. Steve was sitting next to Jim Lawson at a recent local con and they seemed to be friendly. And Rick continued to work with Kevin at Tundra. Weird.
Found out about this through a friend and I gotta say this is some interesting stuff. Thanks for the hard work. I obviously subbed and look forward to more and listening to the backlog. Keep doing what you’re doing guys! Cheers.
Legendary. Absolutely legendary.
Oddly enough, I had picked this up about a month ago at a comics shop along with CJ issue 137 which just happens to be the creator's rights issue which features Steven Bissette and Scott McCloud. My first issue of the CJ was 118 which was a doozie as it featured interviews with Moebius (the headliner), Alan Moore, and Frank Miller. The Miller and Moore interviews are a sort of postmortem on the ratings controversy which had enveloped comics at that time. The Crumb interview in CJ 121 and the Jeff Smith interview from CJ 173 are also great (173 also has an interview with Mike Diana). Anyway those are probably my favs, buy there are a bunch of good issues that I'm sure I missed!
Lordy, I hope there are tapes
If you have millions of dollars, its okay to start something small and see it grow, not just blow all your money on something that isn't going to work and is poorly thought out.
Bro This is so interesting. I'm a big Turtle fan, Eastman and Laird fan and I had no idea about this stuff. Holy smokes. The fucking tank? Shiit! Amazing stuff. From what I can follow about Tundra and his endeavors, I mean this is incredible stuff. I never even think about it, I was all about image, when I was younger but older than when I discovered the turtles I was all about Image. Image was like the sickest thing I had heard about artists becoming owners and doing their thing and going head to head with the big dogs. But fucking Eastman and Laird were like years ahead of everyone! And Tundra Comics? I never even heard of Tundra!! Eastman was on one wow. Great piece guys. You got a new fan here. Fucking Heavy Metal?!! I always wondered about what mogul moves if any or just how bananas it was personally for both men, to blow up so hard like that off of their creation.
I gave my copy of this to Chris Pitzer a few years ago. It’s brain breaking.
What is the spawn image above the devil dinosaur on the upper left side of the screen
Eric Torres I’ve seen that before (in a spawn comic). It’s someone dressed up as spawn.
Yep. I think I pulled it from a Wizard Halloween costume column, but it was probably in Spawn too. There used to be a lot of fan content in that era of Image books - fan art and photos like this. - Jim
Lol. That’s amazing. I kept laughing every time I saw it.
It is funny that Eastman/Laird‘s attorneys and legal strategy was so much better than Alan Moore‘s.
Yeah but Moore never had the pleasure of squandering 14 million dollars.
Kevin Eastman is an awesome guy. He is currently doing a memoir style comic called Drawing Blood with David Avallone and my friend Ben Bishop. Check it out! www.kickstarter.com/projects/2073065927/kevin-eastmans-drawing-blood-vol-2
Wow, 27 when he starts Tundra, that’s my age right now.
Kevin Eastman handle success? Dude he bought a tank with their first batch!
Just got to the part when you mention the tank lol.
Eastman's seen some shit.😲
Once you are making serious money from your comic then all should be okay, you simple handle each new situation on its own and again if you have plenty of money you should be able to sit down and draw your comic.
This video stressed me out so bad I had to stop watching