Getting Lithium from Phone (Li-ion) Batteries - Part 1
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2017
- If I have to break out power tools at any point during a project, you know it's going to be a trainwreck.
In this project acquire a number of Lithium-Ion batteries, and go about extracting the delicious lithium-cobalt oxide within, to separate and isolate the lithium from later.
/ explosionsandfire
/ explosions_fire
/ explosionsandfire - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
He finaly win the nobel at 97 years 🙌
well, I guess it's........ good enough
sorry
Absolutely right 💯, it feels he made a castle out of lithium 😁😁
There are no posthumous Nobel prizes. It does help if you live a long life: there’s a chance they’ll recognize your work belatedly if you’re still alive...
and now hes gone on to work on glass solid state batteries
But it still wasn’t good enough! He’s STILL on an active team working on even more breakthroughs! Absolute legend.
When threatened, the Lithium Ion Battery can expand up to twice its usual size.
that made me laugh way more than i should have lmao
GOOD JOKE!
Call me a lithium ion battery then, because uni stress makes me E X P A N D
i love this joke
"wait for all the heat to fuck off" spoken like a true scientist
Made me rewatch it several times 😂😂😂😂😂😂
That bloody heat what an insufferable squatter eh
Let entropy do it's thing and it will fuck off eventually
**the sound of a thousand flies being electrocuted by a TV monitor running at 165 kilovolts**
"I don't know if it will come through on camera..."
I'll be honest, it's actually worse in real life
@@ExtractionsAndIre This is one area where I'm glad I need hearing aids- turn 'em off and I can't hear the cleaner at all.
It would honestly work pretty well as part of an Aphex Twin song
E&F has an anonymous contact that wishes to remain anonymous
Also E&F: "thanks Dano for that"
*also, here are all the serial numbers*
Every other Australian guy is called Dano
@@peterwhittle522 hidden in plain sight
13:26 "I dont know if it came through on the camera"
My ears are bleeding now thank you
_something_ came through the camera.
Hypnotoad!
Camera doesn't do the noise justice. It really is just the most high pitched noise out there. Scratching on a chalk board doesn't hold a candle to the ultrasonicator.
Maybe a sudden shrilly sound from the nature😂😂
WHAT????
“As delicate and precise as a well played game of chess”
*Proceeds to blow the damn thing up*
Warning lable: "Do not pierce or puncture."
EnI: "Sooo... rotary cutter? :D"
Goodenough won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry on October 9th, 2019!
I just saw and am very happy about this!!
I guess they belatedly thought his work was good enough
Me: oh ok he’s just gonna cut it open
E&F: yeah mate we’re just gonna torch it till it explodes
I used to work in an apple certified repair shop (TM, copyright, rights reserved, official/they'll sue ya if you cock up). If a laptop came in under warranty (aka we're obliged to fix it) and it made smoke or crackled or didn't smell quite right, anything really, we'd put it in a fireproof safe with a giant lock that our manager needed to unlock. (which would only happen once all the right paperwork and fire crews were in place) Then a priest would come in and bless everyone working at the time, follower by a bleach bath of the entire building.
And they'd have us ship the battery back so they could do R+D on it to see how some engineer screwed up. To ship it we'd put a sticker on it that just had an picture of an airplane with a cross through it and big bold font that said "FOR GROUND TRANSPORTATION ONLY". This was around the time of the extra-explodey galaxy 7s, so the word 'lithium' was considered sacrilegious withing 3 miles of an airport. It would get shipped with 1.5" of foam and a secret service agent as a bodyguard. Tippy top security, golden ticket, mums the word, etc.
Seeing a puffy battery made my skin crawl just thinking of all the paperwork.
Today, to relax, I put on some E+F, and I see you put hate box one on a hot plate until it explodes. Twice.
Which apparently didn't do the trick, so you take bolt cutters to one. Then when THAT fails you break out a dremel and just have at it.
Jesus Christ. I'm gonna have to go do my taxes with crayons to calm my nerve after this.
PS I might have fibbed about the priest but I'll never do it again I promise.
Hahaha that's hilarious. Perhaps it serves you right for watching me do dangerous chemistry to relax haha
@@ExtractionsAndIre well at this point I'm watching you keep apples fresh so it probably all balances out ;P
Even a puffy battery is not all that dangerous. Apple seems to seriously over react over these things. It is a bit ironic though because in all my years of phone repair ( thousands of phone over the years) I have only seen one nonapple phone battery puff up ( samsung). Deffinatly seen hundreds of puffy apple batteries . Just don't poke it with a sharp stick or make origami with it and you are fine.
rofl 😂
N C omg ahahaha same! when's the cody collab coming?? 😂
Nuthin loike a good ol battry on the barbee ehh m8
Kangaroo eucalyptus outback at cetera
fuckin' oath mate
I am now subscribed. This is the funniest shit ever
Welcome to another episode of extracting a very fucky element that is not at all your friend
TH-cam is awesome
Sometimes
ah, I see you are using a patented big clive explosion containment pie dish. excellent!
Hi! I was doing similar experiment last year. The goal was Lithium carbonate. Instead of bicarbonate of soda and hydrocloric acid, I bought a can of CO2 to run through solution to get Lithium carbonate (with all inpurities included). I almost torched my balcony when I was making LiOH. (the damn thing spits everywhere!)
Suggestion: You could completely discharge the batteries first, way safer. Make sure you remember to bypass the protection circuitry (usually a little board on the top of the cell). If you don't it won't drop below around 2 volts. Leave it to short out for a day, ideally through a 5 ohm resistor to avoid it overheating and bulging the plates apart. If this happens there'll be some charge remaining where are gap has formed between the plates (squeeze it back together with a vice if so). You could then verify if it's been fully discharged with a voltmeter and making sure it stays at 0volts, but leave it 10 minutes after disconnecting the short before taking the measurement to allow any latent charge to rear its ugly head.
Even mostly discharged, still not a great idea to squeeze it in a vice and running the risk of a miscalculation
9:38 he actually did get the nobel prize for 2019 ^^
It's been a great video out there and it's way clear and cool. Keep up this good thing
Love this channel. You are awesome. Teaching people chemistry in a very practical way!
I was hoping to just unwrap the battery without an explosion so I could make some cobalt coordination compounds 😂
"organic mess that i don't understand"
fuck i love the scientific method
Ultrasonic baths are awesome for dissolving hard to dissolve stuff! Or disperse stuff. Together with a vortex mixer they are the most important tools in an analytical lab.
the sound is nasty tho
The solvent we used for preparing the cathode/anode slurries in our lab was n-methyl pyrollidone, for future reference.
Wow! This is amazing. I build and fly FPV racing drones, and I go through MANY massive lithium polymer batteries every month. This is by far the best method I've seen for disposing of LiPos. (I assume this is possible for LiPo and Li-ion)
Anonymous contact that wishes to remain anonymous... thanks [REDACTED]!
Classic😂👍
I've been looking for a video like this for so long!
Tom: "Welcome to Explosions and Fire...err...Extractions and Ire!"
Me: "That's gotta be foreshadowing".
I really like this guys shooting from the hip style
@drew michael except that if you paid any attention, most of those cells were near dead as seen by the very lackluster reaction lol. So you're a bit on the hyperbole side by a few football fields
@drew michael yea lol. That first cell had some spunk
Just my two cents from experience:
Whenever disposing of single cell Lithium-anything 18650s, I dunk them in a salt water bathe so the stored charges dissipate down to unusable. This may also work with battery packs like you used, but go easy on the salt to prevent it from tripping one of the internal fuses.
This should oxidize the Lithium itself (rendering it unusable for a battery) and save from extra sparks and toxic fumes.
Salt discharge method is a myth!
1:58 They do. In the magnetic creator (I think called Magnetron) of a microwave there may be Berylliumoxid. So if you Break it its not good.
Yeah it's an oxide so it's not going to react the way it normally would right? We are doing chemistry here aren't we? let me guess next you're going to tell me titanium dioxide has exactly the same properties as titanium because you know paint....
@@danisyx5804 Berylliumoxid is very very toxic. It may only be in some magnetrons, still you have to be very careful. I am just trying to warn.
@@sebastianfischer429 then don't f****** eat it. It's not going anywhere in your microwave it's an extremely high temperature refractory material maybe you should look up the word refractory it's used as an insulator for a f****** reason now get off my f****** porch
Yep, apparently its only in the older ones tho, in new ones they've apparently stopped using it in favour of aluminium oxide
These vids are sick. Thank you for contributing to the scientific community.
Excellent extraction battree's!
Very informative. Thank you.
Do you think the cobalt in lion batteries will ever be replaced?
I fucking love your videos. The perfect mix of nerd speak to Aussie slang so my brain can understand. Videos are definitely not yellow Tom, thanks for all the years of hard work
Tom, this is good stuff. Yeah, I’ve gotten lithium from aa batteries. But I never considered how you could recover it from these common as dirt lithium ion batteries. Anxious to see how your work turns out.
Thanks for the support, I am excited to see how/if this works too!
from what I understand commercially they freeze the batteries before then just mechanically separating them before chemically separating the elements.
Causal cursing and a laid back attitude with chemistry? You are fucking amazing
wont LiOH dissolve in water also dissolve the Al foil thats stuck 2 it?
i think u should also find ways 2 prevent that or separate them (from Li aluminate) afterwards
also, after LiOH dissolved the Al foil, it will b a pain 2 clean the glassware afterwards since the Li aluminate will deposit some Al compounds (probably oxide?) onto glass (i experienced that b4!)
for the Cu contamination, i think u also have 2 test the purity of the Co salt u produced to verify its free from Cu contamination otherwise u need extra steps 2 sep them
Would the "plastic" seperator be useful in an electrolysis cell, for example, copper sulphate to H2SO4 and copper metal rather than the use of a terracotta pot ?
Is lithium the metal when in contact with a dissimilar metal when an electrical charge is applied it will repel itself?
the last lab I worked in we used those ultrasonic cleaners pretty frequently and we had to wear these huge sound reduction muffs everytime we had to use one
I love how first way to go into a battery, was to heat it up :D
What would you use the lithium for once it is extracted? Making your own bipolar lithium medication?
the plastic is the di-electric layer which electrically insulates the layers from short circuiting with each other.
+Extractions&Ire It´s actually possible to react and dissolve the lithium cobalt(III) oxide with nitric, sulfuric or acetic acids if you also add some hydrogen peroxide, which will reduce the cobalt(III) ions into cobalt(II) ions and will also produce oxygen gas.
Would muriatric (hydrochloric) acid work as well?
@@someghostwithinternetacess1066 Hydrochloric acid works, but the reaction produces chlorine gas besides cobalt(II) chloride and lithium chloride so be careful.
@@chemicalmaster3267 ok is there a way to reduce both into their pure forms? sorry english not my 1st luguage
@@someghostwithinternetacess1066 It´s Ok, just keep practicing your English! Solutions of cobalt(II) can be reduced to cobalt metal by reacting with a more reactive metal like zinc or aluminum in a double desplacement reaction, but lithium metal is quite difficult to reduce from its compounds by an amateur chemist. Lithium is usually obtained by electrolysis of molten lithium chloride.
@@chemicalmaster3267 ok it's mostly i don't use the correct wordings
It's not -"how to get lithium from batteries."
It's -"How to make Li-ion omelet."
i didn't know i wanted an ex&f and howtobasic collab until now
Li-ionelette
3:02 i think dano wanted to remain anonymous
Can't watch right now. But looking forward to it. I have a bunch of these batteries both new and spent. One of my projects soon will be to extract the lithium from them. Or at least to get as far as lithium carbonate (Carbonate is a great way to separate Li from any other alkali metals.). I haven't done much research yet and so I think your videos will have to be part of the research process.
I think carbonate is a really good idea, I had no idea its solubility was so low!
The more charged the battery, the more energetic the reaction when punctured or breached.
I had a complete dead, no revive possible LI-ion cell that gave absolutely no reaction, not even any bubbles when i poured water directly on the lithium covered plastic sheet. Then i took my old Samsung S5 battery and punctured it. Now that was fun. It had a 75% charge. That's one of the major reasons they don't ship li-ion batteries charged over 50%
Ok so what do people think is the best method going forward? I explained them both in the video.
Method 1: Using H2S to precipitate Co2S.
Method 2: Using KOH to precipitate Co(OH)2 and then separate K/LiCl using dry ethanol.
Method 2 is my current favourite, especially as it gives the cobalt in a usable form this way, so it can be considered 'recovered' too. The Co2S from method 1 is kinda useless and its really more a shit byproduct that i'll throw out.
OR do you have a better way of separating cobalt and lithium?? Let me know!
Extractions&Ire maybe try soaking all the batteries in salt water, this ensures that they wont catch on fire when you cut them as they will be discharged and have no energy left!
Method 2 also has the advantage of not involving H2S...
(And I wonder if you would be able to get some metallic cobalt in the end? Maybe with some electrochemistry?)
You only need to add a bit of H2S then filter and add the metal sulphide to HCl to get the H2S back to convert even more of the metal. At what temperature does H strip the CL off the metal to leave pure metal and produce more HCl? You can make a little refinery with two cycles in it.
+Tom Mackellar Now that's a good thought! I didn't think about charge until after I had cut them all haha
+piranha031091 Method 2 does seem a lot safer and less unpleasant. Although I do kinda enjoy doing things with H2S... it's kinda fun.
Oh possibly, I've made Cobalt metal before from Co chloride + Aluminium, not sure how the purity stacked up.
I suppose to make the project reach a real good conclusion, I should use electrochemistry to get some lithium metal.... hmm
What are you doing sir?
Nah, mate im'a just cooking some batteries
I like him because he swears a lot, I wish he swears more.
based
They finally got their Nobel prize for the Lithium Ion batteries.
I'm happy about this!!
@@ExtractionsAndIre John B. Goodenough for the Nobel Prize.
"they wouldnt put beryllium in a home device"
laughs in microwave
Save the little bms boards as they will work with many types of lithium ion batteries. Discharge the batteries. Open them, then soak the guts in carbonated water. The lithium will disolve but the rest won't. After that you can get to the copper cobalt and nickel at your leasure. The lithium carbonate can be recovered by simply drying the solution.
i love how you guys battery bat tree
You could put the batteries in hot water with a bit of salt to discharge them & soften the plastic. Then the plastic could be easier to score with something & maybepeel the plastic off.
5:00 Lithium battery BBQ. Seems fun xD
you can use thioacetamid to react ions with sulfur.
its usedused in classical qualitative inorganic analysis in eu because its way safer than h2s and no gasbubbles will be created
Amazing lets try this at home
6:40. You used a rusty tool to extract lithium dummy
Powertool= heat
Can you sides off?
It's best to first discharge them completely by first doing a normal discharge, then placing them in saltwater to fully drain all remaining charge. Then, you can cut them without any violent reaction.
NetRolller3D but you should still take a step back, the reaction products of the electrolyte with air are not very healthy. (Electrolyte contains LiPF₆)
And the rest of the world is wondering how forestfires are starting😂.
Enjoying your Videos👌
They DO put beryllium in consumer goods, though. The magnetron tube has beryllium in it. Though I'm not sure for what purpose. You could easily make a microwave oscillator using a gunn or tunnel diode, but considering they cost about $20 each, it's not very practical for consumer level production. Plus I think those diodes only operate at a few milliwatts (0.001 watt) whee microwave ovens put out up to a 1.5 kilowatts (1500 watts) So I guess it's a necessary evil. I think cadmium in NiCad batteries was a much bigger safety concern. Cadmium scares the crap out of me.
4:53 Australian barbecues are weird.
tbh it looks like there's still a ton of Li/CoO in your reagent jar. you can always boil it down. i'd run at least 2 more extractions on it, so you can clean up the copper, which is valuable in its own right, and water is not exactly a scarce resource, even in australia. at least not at the quantities you're using. that whole reagent jar still looks black with Li/CoO.
Sry for my comments actually I didn't understand the last step .... which solution used their......
"They'd never put beryllium in a home device..."
Me: 👀 over at microwave.... "You sure about that there??!"
Lol 😂
The 1 lithium primary has like 1.5grams of actual metal all of those others have maybe 7grams in a compound
Beryllium is love! Beryllium is life! Please do not speak ill of dear Beryllium!
Throwing batteries on the the barbee, so Australian.
I could swear that I had that exact Motorola phone with that battery, they also puffed up sometimes when you used the phone too much
8:15 That's me in the middle of August nearly every year.
How to extract cobalt dioxide from li ion battery ?
These days you can find a LOT of discarded lithium batteries in the street... thanks to disposable vapes... but I bet they're LiPo not LiION... be interesting to see how to extract from them too.
Li-ion batteries can have very nasty stuff dissolved in the electrolyte, like a bunch of fluorine compounds, like LiPF6. If you burn it, you can get HF and other nasties, it may also hydrolyze to release HF. You could try electrolyzing the mixture to get the Co out in metallic or hydroxide form.
HF? Faark. That's a bad one. None of my limbs have fallen off nor have I died so I'm okay I guess, but I'll keep treating the waste as really hazardous (like I have been, I churned through the gloves on this project). Thanks for the heads up.
Electrolysis is probably the clean way to do it, you're not wrong!
There is also a corollary to this, some of the total lithium content may be dissolved into the non-aqueous electrolyte. (in the form of the LiPF6 and others) So unless you extract the lithium from the electrolyte as well, your yield may be lower.
I’m gonna start using “wait for the heat to fuck off” instead of cool down
Where is part 2?
What are you using the extracted lithium for?
its obvious he's gonna make a portable nuclear device.
It may be possible to exploit solubility differences in the sulfate salts of lithium and cobalt when dissolved in alcohols. I did a similar method to separate copper and nickel chloride from dissolved currency as CuCl2 is fairly soluble in acetone whereas NiCl2 is negligibly soluble at best.
I had that thought too, but I believe both lithium and cobalt sulfate are insoluble in ethanol, so I don't know how to make that work
Extractions&Ire oxalate salts could work. Lithium oxalate has a solubility of 8g/100mL H2O whereas cobalt oxalate is like 2.7x10^-9 g/100mL
Ohh hmm... Do you think oxalic acid will dissolve the Lithium-cobalt oxide and basically just selectively leech the lithium? I'm not sure it would
Actually the biggest issue might be separating the lithium oxalate from oxalic acid
That was another of my thoughts, using oxalates for separation.
Roasting lithium oxalate free from oxygen might even yield metallic lithium... Then you'd get rid of the excess oxalic acid at the same time.
Overall, I think you need to come up with a better method than the two you've suggested so far!
"They wouldn't put beryllium in a home device"
In the meantime, microwaves.
Also you could extract the cobalt from them, I did and made my whole backyards smell like hydrogen chloride, yum.
Delicious
Mans BBQ’d the batteries
Can you get lithium from lithium hydroxide like you get sodium from molten sodium hydroxide?
I always wanted some one to extract lithium (salts) from lithium ions and not LITHIUM Batteries, I never found a video that extracted lithium from lithium ions until now, now that is way cheaper than lithium batteries
Another way to get into the cases is to just sand them down slowly until you reach the goo
On this episode of the untethered chemist, cooking batteries!
Beryllium isn't yellow by any chance?
Your intro wasn't wrong, there are still explosions and fire in the video :D
Ah yes, instructional video on making robot coffee
Who is playing the music I starting recognizing at 11:29?
I love those lithium AA and AAA batteries. They don’t leak and are more easily recycled compared to alkaline
Good lord that sound @13:35
Take back what you said about beryllium being a terrible element! It’s great for audio, as a tweeter and headphone driver material.
Method 2 can be made with NaOH instead of KOH right?
Yep! NaCl is basically insoluble in ethanol too, but I think it's probably slightly more soluble in there than KCl. The other point is, one of the ways we're going to check for lithium in the end product is a flame test, where lithium shows up as red. Any sodium contamination really ruins that test because the orange sodium flame is so bright, so I'd rather have a little potassium in the lithium rather than the sodium, that's why I've chosen KOH not NaOH. But ya it still works either way
Ohh I see, well I'll wait for part 2 then haha.. Thank you very much!
“HEY! HEAT! YOU CAN FUCK OFF NOW!!” Heat *😔*
5:03 sounds like minecraft
I’ve had enough of these “Goodenough” jokes.
I knew it was good when I saw a Dremel.
Think you need some more isolation on your cleaner