Thank you. Great demonstration. The logic goes like this: 1. When braking is required for traffic reasons, regen is outstanding. All breaking up to a certain intensity level will be regenerative. Disc brakes come on only when that level is exceeded. 2. When breaking not required for traffic reasons, the choice is A. Use some of your kinetic energy now to regenerate the battery, which after some losses, makes maybe 75% of that energy available for moving the car later. Roundtrip losses include: generator, conversion, charging, discharging, conversion, motor. B. Use the same kinetic energy to move the car now (i.e. coast). 100% of that used energy goes to moving the car, avoiding the 25% loss. You don't have to be going downhill for coasting to be effective. See timestamp 5:12 in your video. You said “I’m going to have to accelerate a bit”, because you had fallen behind the car in front under level 3 regen. The energy used for that acceleration came from the regen (with some loss). That's a case where it clearly would have been (slightly) more efficient to use your kinetic energy directing for coasting, rather than for regen at a 25% loss. I always coast when I can, taking care not to put myself in a spot where later I have to cram on the bakes so hard that the disc brakes come into play.
It’s too much hassle trying to balance my foot at the right angle to coast. And if any undue potholes or imperfections on road my foot goes slight off balance and I’m in regen or accelerate mode. I find best to use pedals, I usually drive with regen off and when I wanna stop I use hand pedals.
Coasting in regen mode slows the car down so it’s not really coasting . When regen is ON at any level you will feel the car slowing down when you release the accelerator . Regen OFF feels much different no resistance at all true coasting .
Technically its better to go with average transport flow speed to avoid accidents, but well, its just stupid to show publically that you go above limit even when everyone else doing that..
He was driving like an "old woman", almost certainly well below the speed limit (93 kph in a 110kph zone, when the black square was off). It's easy to get good energy consumption figures doing that.
8:50 That's only valid point in dry and warm countries. Here in Finland if you don't use brakes they will jam up and the next time you need them they might not release properly or braking is uneven etc. and then you have to take your car to be brake serviced anyway. So there are two sides on that coin.
Same in Russia with all the salt and snow. Every time when changing brake pads have to clean and lube guide rods and bolts, inspect seals or next time there is a chance that you have to remove broken bolts
When you are changing modes with the paddles, you aren't affecting the mechanical vs. electrical braking amount - you are affecting how the vehicle is controlled and behaves in one-pedal mode when letting up on the accelerator. The Ioniq like most EVs (except Tesla) uses blended braking when you use the brake pedal, only using the mechanical brakes when driver demanded rate of deceleration is more than regen can perform. And, even with max one-pedal regen selected, you can still coast by how you operate the accelerator pedal (seen on the graph as neither accel or regen - no bars). What you measured is how good you are at operating the vehicle for best efficiency in both driving control modes, not the increased use of the mechanical brakes vs. battery regen. Which is why the numbers are so similar.
Exactly what I wanted to say. The levels basically simulate engine braking of combustion engines. It just happens to be regen braking, but these are two independent aspects.
Dave thanks. I've been driving a Chevy Bolt for the last four years and it has an excellent regen system. It depends entirely on the terrain and conditions you drive under. We live in the mountains and going up/down hills regen is the better option. Coasting might be better suited for highway conditions but stop and go in traffic probably will yield better results in regen. Also, like someone else said, you can almost coast in regen by keeping your accel in the sweet spot. We drive almost entirely in regen for the one pedal option which we're so used to that everything else feels weird!
Not sure if Ioniq is same as Kona, but regen levels 1-3 and auto are independent settings- level is how much regen is applied when you lift the pedal, auto on/off enables additional regen when front radar detects approaching car in front.
Tidbit: Since 1954 the offshore industry have been using eddy current braking systems to help slow the drawworks motor where up to 45000ft of drillstring hangs from down into the earth. Typical spec: 120000 lb-ft torque, 22kW Power Input.
rule of thumb here: you get 2/3 back by regen, but if you can anticipate and coast along you will get 100% You might run into a red light but then shortly before that you push REGEN to FULL and then press the brakes cause that way you get the highest regen and less heat on the brakes - and if the red light becomes green you cruise on and have a higher speed than if you would have regenerated the whole time. And the difference is a lot 2/3 with regen versus 50% more in "coast" mode is a lot. But permanent regen need less attention and offers more comfort.
ICE cars have coasting modes now too. My 2016 Mercedes A200d 2.2 Diesel with DCT has Gliding mode in ECO mode. It reports to you what you have saved on every journey. My personal best being 28 Bonus miles in 1 day from "Gliding".
Very interesting video, Dave, thanks a lot! Please share more of your experience with your electric car. The next car (2nd vehicle) will be fully electric, but this will be in 5 years, earliest. That'll be just before I retire. Our Citroen Diesel car features a 'mild' version of regenerative deceleration, i.e. it has a starter-generator and stores the kinetic energy into a SuperCap battery, which then allows very smooth and fast re-ignition of the Diesel engine. Very interesting electronics module, also. I'm on Mobile Work since over 1 year, and I also do not miss these traffic jams on the peripherical around Francfort at all! I hope that my company will retain that, even after the virus story is over.
Using regen only when you would actually have to press the brake is the smartest way to go. Auto-regen mode when you let off is less efficient because regenning and then having to speed back up is not as efficient as coasting through.
EVs are brilliant in terms of control systems. The leaf 2018 and onwards has e-pedal mode which means the car will mix in friction breaks to come to a complete stop ONLY using the accelerator, no paddles (although not saying those are bad), all the cars momentum truly controlled with one pedal, I love it.
Well, I think it is more intuitive when it works more or less like an ICE car: when you do not apply accellerator it will coast and maybe slow down (could be configurable how much it actually slows down), and when you press brake pedal it will use regen as much as possible and friction braking when that is not enough. That is what I would call "brilliant", what it has now (you have to select regen, you have to help it to tell it to slow down quicker, you cannot combine it with other modes like cruise control) is not exactly "brilliant", it is more of a first try.
@@Rob2 I disagree that it's more intuitive, it's only more familiar. ePedal abstracts away how the car works and just gives the driver what they're asking, no faffing round,v just modulate a single pedal. ICE cars are inherently unintuitive (I grew up driving manuals).
If you can, please make more car videos. It's really interesting. For ppl like me who never experienced electric car driving, it's all new "factors" in car driving.
Dave videos are great, but if you like this one, you should checkout Bjorn Nyland channel (th-cam.com/users/bjornnyland). He is a former dev, who went full EV testing. He is very detailed and technical in his test. Frankly, he might have done the same test as Dave did, it's the kind of thing he does.
I think the auto-mode would do the best. When you do it manually: coasting on highways, level 3 in start-stop traffic for one-pedal drive and if you go downhill adjust levels for keeping the speed
I think he's just making sure that this video can't be used as evidence against him. I haven't heard horror stories, but perhaps Dave has or simply had the foresight to preclude the possibility ;). TH-camrs sometimes learn to be paranoid about certain things, especially after a "fan" shows up at their front door unannounced after a deep, disturbing investigation into various clues about where they might live gleaned from 143 videos and hundreds of posts on Instagram and Twitter ;). Scary for men; terrifying for women.
Better safe than sorry, there's always people out there that would freak out if he goes 1km/h over the limit for even a second then try to use it against him.
It is a misnomer that regen braking is the most efficient way to drive. Regen braking just recovers already spent energy. Yes, regen braking is massively better than using the friction brake. However, there are still losses with regen. Regen braking can never recover 100% of the energy. The best possible way to drive is to have the car decouple the entire drivetrain from the wheels and then coast at a constant speed downhill. Theoretically that would achieve nearly infinite fuel economy with an EV car. With regen braking you will always have to use some energy to maintain your average speed. Now, the coasting is only effective if you have no traffic and never have to use the friction braking. Basically if you have to slow down then regen braking is massively better. If not then coasting can be the best option especially if the downhill grade allows you to maintain your speed.
On the Leaf, you can avoid regen by switching to neutral. Should be possible in Ioniq as well. It's a little hazzle though, as you constantly have to switch between N and D. Stats on my Leaf showed about 20% of my consumption came from regen. That amount, of course, will vary greatly depending on where you're driving, but in the 10-30% range would be normal I believe. I've tested regen to be about 90% efficient. Yes coasting is better... That should mostly be because you'll let of the throttle earlier. I've found that variating speed is the killer, even though the regen is so efficient. So in any case, hilly or flat, you'll get lowest consumption when going at as steady speed as possible, and coasting "flattens" out the speedvariations.
When you drive in "regen" level your car (Ioniq 5) is regenerating energy even while you driving, but doing so it lose more energy than it produces, obviously. If you drive in level 0, there is no resistance and no energy los. Best to drive on level 0! To extende you range you mast plane you driving: 1. left your foot from the throttle and glid as long you are not slowing the trafic bihand, then 2. regen to slow, then 3 brake to stop.
The aircon use is very impressive. On my '96 Saturn SL2 I was getting about 41 MPG (17 km/l ?) on a cross-country trip, but for one tankful I tried the A/C and lost nearly 1/4 of my range. (I had to refill th 10 gal. tank in only ~300 miles instead of the typical 400+.) Overall I probably used the A/C more in the winter to help defog than I ever did in summer.
EVs have more efficient AC because the electric motor driving the compressor can run at any arbitrary speed, as suited to requirements. In a petrol car the compressor is forced to run relative to engine speed and only has on/off control.
In my experience ICE cars AC is super expensive in terms of fuel. But from what I have seen, in EVs it uses 300~1000W which is very little compared to the battery capacity, ie you can run it for days on a single charge.
So basically the regen braking is an user interface thing. The drivetrain can accelerate and deaccelerate. The "brake pedal" first uses the motor regen before using the disc brakes. The regen setting moves some of that regen from the brake pedal to your throttle pedal (it offsets the curve), so that you can utilize "one pedal driving" if sufficiently strong & works till 0km/h. I'm not surprised that coasting is slightly more efficient. Even though you regen energy, the battery+drivetrain probably still has some loss so any kWh that's pushed back and forth will still be wasted. You probably wreck your mileage if you brake so hard beyond what the motor regen can deliver so it has to use the disc brakes (regardless of regen setting)..
Interesting that zero regen recouped more. I think this is because kinetic energy is always going to be better 'storage' of energy (if you think of it that way) than actually storing the electrons in the tank, as you have to get them out and convert them back into forward movement but I didn't think it would be such a difference. In any case, I think the Ioniq is one of the most efficient EVs out there, so the two results are both excellent. As a future idea, can you do a drive from Penrith to Katoomba and back in the Ioniq, and record how much you 1) use to get up there, and then 2) how much do you recoup when you get back down to the bottom of the GWH at Penrith using regen all the way? Interested to see how much is used getting from sea level to 1km above sea level, and then how much the regen can claw back from the downhill run on return.
AI-generated video summary is spot on: "The video is about a comparison of regen braking and coasting modes in an electric car. The results show that coasting mode is more efficient in flat terrain, while regen braking is more efficient when going downhill. The best way to save energy is to use regen braking when going downhill and coasting mode when driving on flat terrain."
It took me a while to translate what your car was doing vs what mine does. I have a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. How it works is all breaking is regen until you hit a certain threshold and then it adds in some disc brakes. There is enough regen that the disc brakes only kick in for panic stops.
Looks like your car works similarly. All the coasting setting seems to do is automatically apply some regen braking when you come off the accelerator. I would expect that to be less efficient. You end up braking when you don't need to and then have to accelerate again. That in and back out of the battery is inefficient.
Yes, seem to be the case. I can certainly feel the disc brakes bite, it's a different feel to regen. Not sure at what point that happens enough to feel it though, it may be applying the discs sligthly all the time.
@@EEVblog2 I spoke with a Hyundai tech about it once and she said that--for my car--its all regen until the -40% threshold and then the discs get involved. Also all braking under 5mph is with the disc. That's probably to give the stop a classic disc brake feel.
@@davidwillmore I hope that in actual day-to-day use the discs get their fair share of action, otherwise the discs will rust. I can see on my car that even after one rainshower there is a light brownish tint on the discs that gets stripped away the next time I brake, and when the car has been out in the rain for a couple of days it actually gets so bad that you can feel/hear it the first time you brake. It would not be good when that accumulated any further due to the brakes never being used.
@@Rob2 The discs get used every time you come to a stop. I realized this when the first stop after a rain felt different. For exactly the reason you said, the pads were stripping off the rust. I assume that need is part of why the designers did that. There is very little energy left in the motion of the vehicle that it's not going to effect regen braking efficiency, so it seems like a good deal to use that small amount of energy to keep the discs in condition.
IONIQ is a transition car. It has bad range and ICE-car-like controls. In a proper EV you have much more range, regen is always on and you use the "gas pedal" to set your speed. Doesn't matter if you're trying to coast or climb a hill, you use the pedal to set the speed, that's the best way to think about it, only take off your foot when you want to stop.
I think people should more concerned with driving safely instead of messing around trying to save a few percent in energy, the energy you used going up the hill just build potential energy which gets recovered when you come back down so it’s a zero sum game.
In my Chevy Volt, when it's in normal drive mode ("D" on the shifter) the regen makes it decelerate pretty much identically to a regular car with engine and transmission. Going down a hill with cruise on it will regen some, but if it's steep enough the car will actually speed up. But if I put the shifter into low ("L"), it will regen much more aggressively for slowing down (but never to a full stop). When cruise is on and I go down a steep hill, it will regen hard enough that the car will not speed up at all and it maintains the set cruise speed exactly. When braking, pushing the pedal lightly first starts to regen a bit more than merely coasting with my foot off the gas, and then pressing it a bit more uses the physical brakes. Down side is, the brake lights don't come on until it's pressed enough to start using the disk brakes. I always use L to slow down with more regen when coming to a stop, but if I'm in heavy traffic I leave it in D so the brake lights coincide with my active braking so people behind me know I'm slowing down.
Very interesting...the "coasting" mode is similar to driving a diesel vehicle with the lack of a throttle body when I worked at Man we demonstrated coasting can save lots of fuel especially in larger vehicles... doesn't work as well with petrol cars as the flap in the throttle body causes more system restriction....I want an electric vehicle but here in the UK they're so expensive compared to a diesel variant.
It actually really quite simple (ignoring using the friction brakes which are zero % efficient) Coasting, ie driving at ZERO torque on the motor, is the most efficient way of moving whilst slowing down slowly (motor current is zero, therefore losses are zero (theoretically, but not quite practically for a PM motor). In this mode, the Kinetic energy stored in your vhicles mass at speed is bleed away into the losses the car faces (aerodynamic and rolling fricton) with perfect efficiency (because F=MA). Regen driving at NEGATIVE torque on the motor, is a less efficient way of moving whilst slowing down more rapidly than by pure coasting. As motor currents are not zero, there are losses, so some of the KE is lost to heat. Regen looses around 15 to 20% of the KE So if you don't need to slow down any faster than when coasting, max range comes from doing this. But if you do need to slow down more quickly, the regen is your next best option. In real road situations, circumstances develop ( a car ahead of you stops to let out a bus from a side road, or traffic lights turn red etc) than mean you must slow more quickly than by coasting alone, and this is where regen helps! If you have to use the friction brakes on any regular basis you need to improve your observation and anticipation skills as a driver..... ;-)
Finally, the reason EVs try to keep regen demand away from the brake pedal is simply to avoid having to electro-mechanically blend between hydraulic and friction brakes. This requires a complex hydraulic control circuit that blocks the hydraulic braking from the master cylinder and increases the eMachines electric braking, but this is expensive and complex to engineer and to get it to feel nice (as brake pad to disc friction is dependant on so many varriables) Therefore, most don't bother, they simply take the hydraulic circuit pressure and add a proportion of eMachine regen to tthat value. The harder you brake the more regen gets added, but the friction brakes are always being used.
"Regen Braking" is what I read in Dutch and it would translate to English as "Rain Barf" 🤮 So that title made zero sense to me, until I figured out my mistake. 😅🤣
Read a test like this done with a ev conversion. It was quite awhile ago so I don't remember the source. The results were pretty much the same. I think the heavier the vehicle the more energy stored in the vehicles momentum. So something like a tractor trailer would benefit more from regen .
Does this vehicle still have a mechanical connection between the brake pedal and the brakes? I would not want a vehicle that I cannot stop in the event of a power brakes failure.
Well, you weren't even coasting, the trick with coasting is that you let off the accelerator way before you want to brake and let the rolling and air resistance take down some speed. You'd regen less, but that energy was delivered by the battery otherwise.
Huh, I thought the regenerative braking was tied to brake pedal (like, press lightly to use only regenerative, press harder to engage actual brakes), it's weird that it requires extra action from the driver
You would think amazing torque comes from a massive magnetic flux, and then maybe massive braking is the generation of electricity from massive flux. You would have to deal with negative polarity somewhere probably. Why don't they have a coast mode with regen braking? Maybe just because it was being tested. Does it have to cluth the motor shaft every time it comes out of coast? That may wear something out.
@@thgftiigghjfryyhgjiyreg8945 did you watch the video? Guess not. My comment was in-line with the video, yours seem to be about battery cars in general or something. Watch the video mate!
I have this car had a Prius before this and have driven the Prius had smoother regeneration very progressive good set up Ioniq regen is either on or off not pleasant Ioniq has plenty of regen capacity the issue is modulation and smoothness this could be fixed with a software tune jut mimic the Prius teslas can be driven with the accelerator pedal alone this maximizes regen when you lift off the accelerator the regen is very aggressive however it can be precisely and smoothly modulated through the accelerator alone in the Prius lift off it coasts and all the regen is modulated through the brake pedal also very smooth setup
This depends on the implementation of the regen modes. My cheap chinese ev completely disables regen if i switch to coast. Thus wasting much energy especially when driving in cities were you constantly need to use the brakes.
BTW, all these modes and stuff are just "window dressing" on an EV! Because the powertrain is intrinsically bi-directional ie it can provide the same negative torque as positive torque, all that "changing mode" actually does to change where your foot is for any given torque!. Frankly, once you've driven an EV for abotu 5 min you just turn the regen on max, and 1 pedal them everywhere. Using the brake pedal to slow only for un-intended emergency stops, and driving purely on the accelerator pedal, where the logic is really simple: Want to go faster than you are now = accelerate more Want to go the same speed as you are now = hold you foot where it is Want to go slower than you are now = lift off a bit. So when going down a hill and the car speeds up a bit because gravity is now assisting you, just lift off a bit, which reduces your driver demand (all the way to negative torque on really steep hills) and the car will hold the speed you are currently go. I've not found any EV drivers that don't find this completely intuitive within a few hours of driving ! (and it renders all the paddles and what not pointless. The OEs put them in because it adds "saleable features" and differentiates the brands, but they are, as i said, window dressing.....)
so, white board time, car weight and speed, mixed with some conversion efficiency and you can make a nice video about how much energy is in the car moving :)
The reasoning that you use a bit more kWh/100km "because you are in the hills" surprises me... When that regeneration actually works so well, there should be no difference, right? You get exactly the same energy back for going down a hill that it took to go up, and in an electric car when you do not use that downhill energy to overcome the wind and roll resistance, it will be fed back into the battery.
"You get exactly the same energy back for going down a hill that it took to go up" -- No, you don't. Friction, air-drag etc. affect the car both uphill and downhill -- they don't magically disappear anywhere when going downhill -- so you still lose some efficiency. Also, there are losses in the regen-circuitry as well. Otherwise you'd have just invented a perpetual-motion engine!
@@WereCatf Of course those factors remain, but they are the same on a flat road. So it does not explain why one would consume more energy "for being in a hilly district". The only explanation would be the loss incurred during charge/discharge.
You realize that the brake pedal uses regen as well? As long as the brake force is sufficient, the car will regen and only use the actual brakes if you require more stopping power. Toyota Hybrids have been working like this for over 20 years. No need to fiddle around with flappy paddles.
I like the flappy paddle! I'd like to find a way to actually detect when it's using the mechnical brakes. Technically I don't know when and how much it's using them.
I can get my best fuel efficiency on fast moving, moderately heavy freeway (motorway) traffic. Got to count using the draft. Even the birds in big cities learn this and "surf" the air above the cars.
@@psygn0sis nah we sold our roads so they're private tolls (at least some of them). just like sydney airport train station is private and they charge $15 "access fee". for a train station!!
I'm not an electric car expert, but technically you had to use more power to accelerate than you can possibly regenerate *unless* you were going downhill. On flat ground, it will always take more power to go from 0-60 than can be recovered by going 60-0 due to transfer and drag losses. Your question is perfectly valid when rolling downhill, though, and I assume that the car will *not* use regenerative braking if it thinks that the battery is currently full.
@@ReelyRacing Yes, but the fact that it says "100%" on the display does not mean the battery is that full that it cannot be charged any further. The 0% and 100% marks will normally be like 10% away from the actual limits.
Why is "regen braking" related to "one-pedal driving" and "cruise control"? These are 3 orthogonal concepts, right? Ok, probably in that car the touching of the brake pedal directly applies the friction brakes, there is no first phase where it just uses regen to do the braking. But still, I don't understand why it would not just keep speed when you use cruise control and use regen to brake the car when you go downhill and it would speed up when there is no drive or braking at all! There apparently is still a lot to gain in the user interface, I don't see why you would need a new user interface with that paddle and the mandatory one-pedal drive, it should be able to use accellerator/brake pedal functionality where it knows by itself whether it has to accellerate, coast or brake an whether to use regen of friction braking. Doesn't Tesla do it that way?
Odd seeing road signs for Liverpool... thats where I'm from.. in the UK of course :) My partner is getting a hybrid soon as a Mobility car, looking forward to seeing the difference !
My step-mum has the Ioniq Hybrid (the mid range model ~£300 advance rental) on Motability and will probably get one again when it comes up for renewal later this year, she gets 74MPG and she says it has a good amount power for overtaking, something she puts to good use when people think they can overtake her when it's not a good idea to do so. Certinaly better than the PT Cruiser Cabrio she had a few cars back!
nice vide..but not sure why you were hiding your vehicle speed..any reasons ? Well i expect you went faster and you didn't want to be used as evidence. I expect that is the reason :)
That's no proper test. Didn't even take it apart. And no direct current measurement hack on the battery ? Hall sensor and data recorder might be an option.
I think Tesla's are the only EVs not smart enough to use the brake pedal for regen. On Tesla the brake pedal always applies the mechanical brakes. Also it's obvious that coasting as opposed to regen is the most efficient way of slowing down (no conversion losses) it's just that ICE drivers behind get pissed off when you slowly come to a stop
Once you drive a Tesla you realise you almost never touch the brake pedal, and if you moderate your right foot well you are coasting in a lot of scenarios anyway. That being said, yeah they could easily do both, must have done without an analog sensor on the brake pedal
@@adrianleitch6996 I don't want to modulate the right foot, i want the car to coast without me doing anything. Also the Tesla setup is much simpler because the brake pedal is always connected to the brakes (hydraulically). in other EVs (Hiunday, Nissan, Renault at least) the car has to choose if to apply the brakes or not, depending on speed, required deceleration, state of charge, temp etc. It's basically brake by wire. the good stuff
Unfortunately here corrosion in the EV brakes is really annoying (potentially dangerous) side effect. Porsche has designed brake discs with non-corroding fiction surface, but they are super expensive and require special calibers and pads.
If the road he was on is known, the intersection that the crossed would have a known distance between markings, and based on the video can be worked out. ;P ...Not that I would want that, but would be interesting scientifically. I came down here to see if anyone else had noticed that.
Don’t use imperial? That’s why we beat your ass in WW2 and we are the oldest country to ever exist. Jokes aside, thanks for that insight. I just got my EV and I’ve been using regen braking, the single pedal, and I hate it. It’s harder to judge the stop distance because it’s really binary on my Chevy Bolt, either on or off. And it feels like either hard on the brakes or no brakes. I’ve started using a combo of the regen and brake pedal so it’s more consistent. No option on coasting regen for this car
STOP START Traffic on way home / to work is sole destroying! If you calculate the 24 HR DAYS you spend per year in the car traveling to-from work each year its...... depressing!
Certainly not when driving at more or less constant speed. But when in a city or another road where you regularly need to stop and start, it should be effective as it should recharge the battery from the energy that is normally dissipated in the brakes when coming to a stop.
Hearing the energy efficiency of the car in kWh/100 km made me think of what-if.xkcd.com/11/ . In it, Randal Monroe explores dimensional analysis of fuel economy. A milage of 29 mpg is roughly equivalent to 8 L/100 km. Which is the same thing as 0.008 mm² which has the dimensions of cross-sectional area. But how can that be interpreted? If you imagine a cylinder running along side your car that has all of the fuel you consume, 0.008 mm² is the (average) cross-sectional area of that cylinder! So you can multiply 0.008 mm² by the length of your journey to find out how much fuel you use! So how does this relate to kWh / 100 km? If you use the figure as given by Dave for his car's efficiency, 10 kWh / 100 km, that reduces to 360 N. This is the average force of the drivetrain acting on the ground, air, and internal car systems as it goes along! If you multiply that by your trip distance, you'll get how much work was done by said battery, in joules!
Without the speed display, this really doesn't say all that much. Too bad that youtube seems to be full off assholes that made you cover this number up, even though you probably didn't even break any speed limits. On the other hand, what I find interesting is the fact that city driving is less efficient than motorway driving - I would have thought it's the other way around (and here in Germany, it certainly is), because in the city, you always regenerate and put a charge back into your battery, which of cours lowers the kWh per 100km you use, while on the Autobahn, you usually go at least 100km/h, more like 120-130km/h (and at many places you could go even faster and put a big old dent into your range), but you never regenerate much, so all the energy is being used to fight against the wind, rolling resistance of the tires and so on. Also, about not using your brakes: Have a look through your wheels onto your brake disks. When they start getting rusty, you should use your brakes for a little while, just to clean off the rust from the disks, because otherwise you may actually damage your brakes by not using them, and if you then should need them in an emergency situation, they won't work as well because of a really thick layer of surface rust. I'd gladly sacrifice a few km of range in order to avoid a scneario like this...
Your gas car is also an order of magnitude more likely to catch fire as well ;). There's a reason there's a firewall between the driver and the engine bay.
Internal combustion engine cars were basically cremation ovens on wheels for about 50 years. The safety standards are much higher now, and electric cars are not worse, they are different, batteries burn differently than gasoline. Just the media is like: LoOk A tEsLa cAtChEd oN FiRe. It's exactly like vaccine causes autism, but with cars.
I hate that supposed metric rubbish. It is bad. In Imperial the values are MPG or Miles per gallon But the Metric system has it as Kw/100KM how much is that in the proper Km/kW?????
That has nothing to do with the metric system! The equivalent in the US would be kWh/100miles I guess. There is a different unit being measured here. It would be possible in imperial as well. E.g. in Europe and Australia the normal car consumption is indicated in liters/100km, not in kilometers-per-liter which would be the equiv of MPG. So it is not surprising that an electric car then indicates kWh/100km which is a similar unit (higher is worse).
Engineering Explained made a video explaining the reasoning behind energy/distance versus distance/energy: th-cam.com/video/oLQmwOX6Xds/w-d-xo.html I prefer litres/km km/litre
Thank you. Great demonstration. The logic goes like this:
1. When braking is required for traffic reasons, regen is outstanding. All breaking up to a certain intensity level will be regenerative. Disc brakes come on only when that level is exceeded.
2. When breaking not required for traffic reasons, the choice is
A. Use some of your kinetic energy now to regenerate the battery, which after some losses, makes maybe 75% of that energy available for moving the car later. Roundtrip losses include: generator, conversion, charging, discharging, conversion, motor.
B. Use the same kinetic energy to move the car now (i.e. coast). 100% of that used energy goes to moving the car, avoiding the 25% loss.
You don't have to be going downhill for coasting to be effective. See timestamp 5:12 in your video. You said “I’m going to have to accelerate a bit”, because you had fallen behind the car in front under level 3 regen. The energy used for that acceleration came from the regen (with some loss). That's a case where it clearly would have been (slightly) more efficient to use your kinetic energy directing for coasting, rather than for regen at a 25% loss.
I always coast when I can, taking care not to put myself in a spot where later I have to cram on the bakes so hard that the disc brakes come into play.
People forget that you can still coast in regen mode - just lift your foot partly up off the accelerator pedal.
It's a very fine act and doesn't feel nearly the same.
It’s too much hassle trying to balance my foot at the right angle to coast. And if any undue potholes or imperfections on road my foot goes slight off balance and I’m in regen or accelerate mode. I find best to use pedals, I usually drive with regen off and when I wanna stop I use hand pedals.
@@Smart.Potato you really don’t know how to keep your car at a set speed using the accelerator?
Wow.
Coasting in regen mode slows the car down so it’s not really coasting . When regen is ON at any level you will feel the car slowing down when you release the accelerator . Regen OFF feels much different no resistance at all true coasting .
I like "Black Suqare of Shame" on the speedometer
Hahaha! Was wondering too why it was squared off. :P
Technically its better to go with average transport flow speed to avoid accidents, but well, its just stupid to show publically that you go above limit even when everyone else doing that..
He was driving like an "old woman", almost certainly well below the speed limit (93 kph in a 110kph zone, when the black square was off). It's easy to get good energy consumption figures doing that.
8:50 That's only valid point in dry and warm countries. Here in Finland if you don't use brakes they will jam up and the next time you need them they might not release properly or braking is uneven etc. and then you have to take your car to be brake serviced anyway.
So there are two sides on that coin.
Most still get used, but not to the extent that they need to be looked at.
Same in Russia with all the salt and snow. Every time when changing brake pads have to clean and lube guide rods and bolts, inspect seals or next time there is a chance that you have to remove broken bolts
You still need to use the brakes every time you want to stop to zero, I can't see how they'd not be used nearly enough for them to go bad
When you are changing modes with the paddles, you aren't affecting the mechanical vs. electrical braking amount - you are affecting how the vehicle is controlled and behaves in one-pedal mode when letting up on the accelerator. The Ioniq like most EVs (except Tesla) uses blended braking when you use the brake pedal, only using the mechanical brakes when driver demanded rate of deceleration is more than regen can perform. And, even with max one-pedal regen selected, you can still coast by how you operate the accelerator pedal (seen on the graph as neither accel or regen - no bars).
What you measured is how good you are at operating the vehicle for best efficiency in both driving control modes, not the increased use of the mechanical brakes vs. battery regen. Which is why the numbers are so similar.
Exactly what I wanted to say. The levels basically simulate engine braking of combustion engines. It just happens to be regen braking, but these are two independent aspects.
Regarding the most efficient EV, it's the 28kw Ioniq, not the later 38kw models as they are heavier and use more power.
Dave thanks.
I've been driving a Chevy Bolt for the last four years and it has an excellent regen system. It depends entirely on the terrain and conditions you drive under. We live in the mountains and going up/down hills regen is the better option. Coasting might be better suited for highway conditions but stop and go in traffic probably will yield better results in regen. Also, like someone else said, you can almost coast in regen by keeping your accel in the sweet spot. We drive almost entirely in regen for the one pedal option which we're so used to that everything else feels weird!
Not sure if Ioniq is same as Kona, but regen levels 1-3 and auto are independent settings- level is how much regen is applied when you lift the pedal, auto on/off enables additional regen when front radar detects approaching car in front.
They aren't independent on mine that I can see.
@@EEVblog2 So what does Auto do then ? On the Kona, holding the right paddle a couple of secs toggles auto mode.
@@mikeselectricstuff I have the Ioniq and it is just as you described with the Kona.
Should be pretty much the same drivetrain and experience between them..
Tidbit: Since 1954 the offshore industry have been using eddy current braking systems to help slow the drawworks motor where up to 45000ft of drillstring hangs from down into the earth. Typical spec: 120000 lb-ft torque, 22kW Power Input.
rule of thumb here: you get 2/3 back by regen, but if you can anticipate and coast along you will get 100%
You might run into a red light but then shortly before that you push REGEN to FULL and then press the brakes cause that way you get the highest regen and less heat on the brakes - and if the red light becomes green you cruise on and have a higher speed than if you would have regenerated the whole time.
And the difference is a lot 2/3 with regen versus 50% more in "coast" mode is a lot. But permanent regen need less attention and offers more comfort.
ICE cars have coasting modes now too. My 2016 Mercedes A200d 2.2 Diesel with DCT has Gliding mode in ECO mode. It reports to you what you have saved on every journey. My personal best being 28 Bonus miles in 1 day from "Gliding".
Didn't know, interesting, thanks.
Very interesting video, Dave, thanks a lot! Please share more of your experience with your electric car.
The next car (2nd vehicle) will be fully electric, but this will be in 5 years, earliest. That'll be just before I retire.
Our Citroen Diesel car features a 'mild' version of regenerative deceleration, i.e. it has a starter-generator and stores the kinetic energy into a SuperCap battery, which then allows very smooth and fast re-ignition of the Diesel engine. Very interesting electronics module, also.
I'm on Mobile Work since over 1 year, and I also do not miss these traffic jams on the peripherical around Francfort at all!
I hope that my company will retain that, even after the virus story is over.
Using regen only when you would actually have to press the brake is the smartest way to go. Auto-regen mode when you let off is less efficient because regenning and then having to speed back up is not as efficient as coasting through.
That's why you can change it on the fly. The problem is when the conditions change all the time. Chopping and changing modes gets tiresome.
How that relates to porsche system when regen is aplied as you press break and the real brakes are used only when regen is not strong enough?
EVs are brilliant in terms of control systems. The leaf 2018 and onwards has e-pedal mode which means the car will mix in friction breaks to come to a complete stop ONLY using the accelerator, no paddles (although not saying those are bad), all the cars momentum truly controlled with one pedal, I love it.
Well, I think it is more intuitive when it works more or less like an ICE car: when you do not apply accellerator it will coast and maybe slow down (could be configurable how much it actually slows down), and when you press brake pedal it will use regen as much as possible and friction braking when that is not enough.
That is what I would call "brilliant", what it has now (you have to select regen, you have to help it to tell it to slow down quicker, you cannot combine it with other modes like cruise control) is not exactly "brilliant", it is more of a first try.
@@Rob2 I disagree that it's more intuitive, it's only more familiar. ePedal abstracts away how the car works and just gives the driver what they're asking, no faffing round,v just modulate a single pedal. ICE cars are inherently unintuitive (I grew up driving manuals).
If you can, please make more car videos. It's really interesting. For ppl like me who never experienced electric car driving, it's all new "factors" in car driving.
Dave videos are great, but if you like this one, you should checkout Bjorn Nyland channel (th-cam.com/users/bjornnyland).
He is a former dev, who went full EV testing.
He is very detailed and technical in his test.
Frankly, he might have done the same test as Dave did, it's the kind of thing he does.
I think the auto-mode would do the best.
When you do it manually: coasting on highways, level 3 in start-stop traffic for one-pedal drive and if you go downhill adjust levels for keeping the speed
In my experience it's a pretty good compromise.
5:36 Its like watching AvE hiding your reflection.
What do you keep covering the speed for? Are you speeding that much that often?
I think he's just making sure that this video can't be used as evidence against him. I haven't heard horror stories, but perhaps Dave has or simply had the foresight to preclude the possibility ;).
TH-camrs sometimes learn to be paranoid about certain things, especially after a "fan" shows up at their front door unannounced after a deep, disturbing investigation into various clues about where they might live gleaned from 143 videos and hundreds of posts on Instagram and Twitter ;). Scary for men; terrifying for women.
I know a case. 140km/h in a 50km/h zone. JP-Performance. A german car tuner. He drive a Porsche Taycan 😅
@@digiay if you drive over 100km in a city and put it on TH-cam it is absolutely correct
Better safe than sorry, there's always people out there that would freak out if he goes 1km/h over the limit for even a second then try to use it against him.
It is a misnomer that regen braking is the most efficient way to drive. Regen braking just recovers already spent energy. Yes, regen braking is massively better than using the friction brake. However, there are still losses with regen. Regen braking can never recover 100% of the energy. The best possible way to drive is to have the car decouple the entire drivetrain from the wheels and then coast at a constant speed downhill. Theoretically that would achieve nearly infinite fuel economy with an EV car. With regen braking you will always have to use some energy to maintain your average speed.
Now, the coasting is only effective if you have no traffic and never have to use the friction braking. Basically if you have to slow down then regen braking is massively better. If not then coasting can be the best option especially if the downhill grade allows you to maintain your speed.
On the Leaf, you can avoid regen by switching to neutral. Should be possible in Ioniq as well. It's a little hazzle though, as you constantly have to switch between N and D.
Stats on my Leaf showed about 20% of my consumption came from regen.
That amount, of course, will vary greatly depending on where you're driving, but in the 10-30% range would be normal I believe.
I've tested regen to be about 90% efficient.
Yes coasting is better... That should mostly be because you'll let of the throttle earlier. I've found that variating speed is the killer, even though the regen is so efficient. So in any case, hilly or flat, you'll get lowest consumption when going at as steady speed as possible, and coasting "flattens" out the speedvariations.
When you drive in "regen" level your car (Ioniq 5) is regenerating energy even while you driving, but doing so it lose more energy than it produces, obviously. If you drive in level 0, there is no resistance and no energy los.
Best to drive on level 0!
To extende you range you mast plane you driving:
1. left your foot from the throttle and glid as long you are not slowing the trafic bihand, then
2. regen to slow, then
3 brake to stop.
The aircon use is very impressive. On my '96 Saturn SL2 I was getting about 41 MPG (17 km/l ?) on a cross-country trip, but for one tankful I tried the A/C and lost nearly 1/4 of my range. (I had to refill th 10 gal. tank in only ~300 miles instead of the typical 400+.) Overall I probably used the A/C more in the winter to help defog than I ever did in summer.
EVs have more efficient AC because the electric motor driving the compressor can run at any arbitrary speed, as suited to requirements. In a petrol car the compressor is forced to run relative to engine speed and only has on/off control.
In my experience ICE cars AC is super expensive in terms of fuel. But from what I have seen, in EVs it uses 300~1000W which is very little compared to the battery capacity, ie you can run it for days on a single charge.
16:14 ish: Suspicious black rectangle appears. No, officer, I was going the speed limit ;)
So basically the regen braking is an user interface thing. The drivetrain can accelerate and deaccelerate. The "brake pedal" first uses the motor regen before using the disc brakes. The regen setting moves some of that regen from the brake pedal to your throttle pedal (it offsets the curve), so that you can utilize "one pedal driving" if sufficiently strong & works till 0km/h.
I'm not surprised that coasting is slightly more efficient. Even though you regen energy, the battery+drivetrain probably still has some loss so any kWh that's pushed back and forth will still be wasted.
You probably wreck your mileage if you brake so hard beyond what the motor regen can deliver so it has to use the disc brakes (regardless of regen setting)..
As AvE would say: "FOCUS ya' f&ck!"
Interesting that zero regen recouped more. I think this is because kinetic energy is always going to be better 'storage' of energy (if you think of it that way) than actually storing the electrons in the tank, as you have to get them out and convert them back into forward movement but I didn't think it would be such a difference. In any case, I think the Ioniq is one of the most efficient EVs out there, so the two results are both excellent.
As a future idea, can you do a drive from Penrith to Katoomba and back in the Ioniq, and record how much you 1) use to get up there, and then 2) how much do you recoup when you get back down to the bottom of the GWH at Penrith using regen all the way? Interested to see how much is used getting from sea level to 1km above sea level, and then how much the regen can claw back from the downhill run on return.
AI-generated video summary is spot on:
"The video is about a comparison of regen braking and coasting modes in an electric car. The results show that coasting mode is more efficient in flat terrain, while regen braking is more efficient when going downhill. The best way to save energy is to use regen braking when going downhill and coasting mode when driving on flat terrain."
It took me a while to translate what your car was doing vs what mine does. I have a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. How it works is all breaking is regen until you hit a certain threshold and then it adds in some disc brakes. There is enough regen that the disc brakes only kick in for panic stops.
Looks like your car works similarly. All the coasting setting seems to do is automatically apply some regen braking when you come off the accelerator. I would expect that to be less efficient. You end up braking when you don't need to and then have to accelerate again. That in and back out of the battery is inefficient.
Yes, seem to be the case. I can certainly feel the disc brakes bite, it's a different feel to regen. Not sure at what point that happens enough to feel it though, it may be applying the discs sligthly all the time.
@@EEVblog2 I spoke with a Hyundai tech about it once and she said that--for my car--its all regen until the -40% threshold and then the discs get involved. Also all braking under 5mph is with the disc. That's probably to give the stop a classic disc brake feel.
@@davidwillmore I hope that in actual day-to-day use the discs get their fair share of action, otherwise the discs will rust.
I can see on my car that even after one rainshower there is a light brownish tint on the discs that gets stripped away the next time I brake, and when the car has been out in the rain for a couple of days it actually gets so bad that you can feel/hear it the first time you brake.
It would not be good when that accumulated any further due to the brakes never being used.
@@Rob2 The discs get used every time you come to a stop. I realized this when the first stop after a rain felt different. For exactly the reason you said, the pads were stripping off the rust. I assume that need is part of why the designers did that. There is very little energy left in the motion of the vehicle that it's not going to effect regen braking efficiency, so it seems like a good deal to use that small amount of energy to keep the discs in condition.
IONIQ is a transition car. It has bad range and ICE-car-like controls.
In a proper EV you have much more range, regen is always on and you use the "gas pedal" to set your speed. Doesn't matter if you're trying to coast or climb a hill, you use the pedal to set the speed, that's the best way to think about it, only take off your foot when you want to stop.
The Nissan electric van I drive at work has measured that 30% of the energy gone into the battery is from regenerative braking.
I think people should more concerned with driving safely instead of messing around trying to save a few percent in energy, the energy you used going up the hill just build potential energy which gets recovered when you come back down so it’s a zero sum game.
In my Chevy Volt, when it's in normal drive mode ("D" on the shifter) the regen makes it decelerate pretty much identically to a regular car with engine and transmission. Going down a hill with cruise on it will regen some, but if it's steep enough the car will actually speed up. But if I put the shifter into low ("L"), it will regen much more aggressively for slowing down (but never to a full stop). When cruise is on and I go down a steep hill, it will regen hard enough that the car will not speed up at all and it maintains the set cruise speed exactly. When braking, pushing the pedal lightly first starts to regen a bit more than merely coasting with my foot off the gas, and then pressing it a bit more uses the physical brakes. Down side is, the brake lights don't come on until it's pressed enough to start using the disk brakes. I always use L to slow down with more regen when coming to a stop, but if I'm in heavy traffic I leave it in D so the brake lights coincide with my active braking so people behind me know I'm slowing down.
On level one don't have brake lights on in the back, only on level 2 and 3
Very interesting...the "coasting" mode is similar to driving a diesel vehicle with the lack of a throttle body when I worked at Man we demonstrated coasting can save lots of fuel especially in larger vehicles... doesn't work as well with petrol cars as the flap in the throttle body causes more system restriction....I want an electric vehicle but here in the UK they're so expensive compared to a diesel variant.
It actually really quite simple (ignoring using the friction brakes which are zero % efficient)
Coasting, ie driving at ZERO torque on the motor, is the most efficient way of moving whilst slowing down slowly (motor current is zero, therefore losses are zero (theoretically, but not quite practically for a PM motor). In this mode, the Kinetic energy stored in your vhicles mass at speed is bleed away into the losses the car faces (aerodynamic and rolling fricton) with perfect efficiency (because F=MA).
Regen driving at NEGATIVE torque on the motor, is a less efficient way of moving whilst slowing down more rapidly than by pure coasting. As motor currents are not zero, there are losses, so some of the KE is lost to heat. Regen looses around 15 to 20% of the KE
So if you don't need to slow down any faster than when coasting, max range comes from doing this. But if you do need to slow down more quickly, the regen is your next best option. In real road situations, circumstances develop ( a car ahead of you stops to let out a bus from a side road, or traffic lights turn red etc) than mean you must slow more quickly than by coasting alone, and this is where regen helps! If you have to use the friction brakes on any regular basis you need to improve your observation and anticipation skills as a driver..... ;-)
Finally, the reason EVs try to keep regen demand away from the brake pedal is simply to avoid having to electro-mechanically blend between hydraulic and friction brakes. This requires a complex hydraulic control circuit that blocks the hydraulic braking from the master cylinder and increases the eMachines electric braking, but this is expensive and complex to engineer and to get it to feel nice (as brake pad to disc friction is dependant on so many varriables) Therefore, most don't bother, they simply take the hydraulic circuit pressure and add a proportion of eMachine regen to tthat value. The harder you brake the more regen gets added, but the friction brakes are always being used.
I had no idea that the Ioniq was so small. The frontal dimensions are basically just a few mm bigger than a Fiat Uno.
What's with the black box in the middle of the car's screen 👀
He probably went faster than legal limit
Hey Dave: Nice Pirate Shirt - You should have worn the Bandana along with it - Chris
"Regen Braking" is what I read in Dutch and it would translate to English as "Rain Barf" 🤮
So that title made zero sense to me, until I figured out my mistake. 😅🤣
Does slowing down gently with regen produce same power regen as break late and hard (polestar 2 here)
Read a test like this done with a ev conversion. It was quite awhile ago so I don't remember the source. The results were pretty much the same. I think the heavier the vehicle the more energy stored in the vehicles momentum. So something like a tractor trailer would benefit more from regen .
Does this vehicle still have a mechanical connection between the brake pedal and the brakes? I would not want a vehicle that I cannot stop in the event of a power brakes failure.
Yes, I believe it's a standard hydraulic disc brake system.
I haven't seen this show in a while.
Where have I seen this guy before.
Is it Bill Nye... nah.
It's the Aussie Bill Nye. :D
Im used to it since my pickup truck brakes without foot brakes already
Well, you weren't even coasting, the trick with coasting is that you let off the accelerator way before you want to brake and let the rolling and air resistance take down some speed. You'd regen less, but that energy was delivered by the battery otherwise.
Huh, I thought the regenerative braking was tied to brake pedal (like, press lightly to use only regenerative, press harder to engage actual brakes), it's weird that it requires extra action from the driver
A mix of both, or doing the 1foot style, as you don't want to fully lift off but just enough to not add input in either direction.
You would think amazing torque comes from a massive magnetic flux, and then maybe massive braking is the generation of electricity from massive flux. You would have to deal with negative polarity somewhere probably. Why don't they have a coast mode with regen braking? Maybe just because it was being tested. Does it have to cluth the motor shaft every time it comes out of coast? That may wear something out.
up here in cold sweden, heat is a pretty good bi-product.
yeah but try capturing it from the brake pads into your cabin, lol
@@PRiMETECHAU eh? well my car will not drain the batteries defrosting my windshield...
@@PRiMETECHAU the nightmare stories i heard with a battery car in sub zero conditions is believable... can i get home or freeze to death while doin...
@@thgftiigghjfryyhgjiyreg8945 did you watch the video? Guess not. My comment was in-line with the video, yours seem to be about battery cars in general or something. Watch the video mate!
I have this car had a Prius before this and have driven the Prius had smoother regeneration very progressive good set up Ioniq regen is either on or off not pleasant Ioniq has plenty of regen capacity the issue is modulation and smoothness this could be fixed with a software tune jut mimic the Prius teslas can be driven with the accelerator pedal alone this maximizes regen when you lift off the accelerator the regen is very aggressive however it can be precisely and smoothly modulated through the accelerator alone in the Prius lift off it coasts and all the regen is modulated through the brake pedal also very smooth setup
This depends on the implementation of the regen modes. My cheap chinese ev completely disables regen if i switch to coast. Thus wasting much energy especially when driving in cities were you constantly need to use the brakes.
BTW, all these modes and stuff are just "window dressing" on an EV! Because the powertrain is intrinsically bi-directional ie it can provide the same negative torque as positive torque, all that "changing mode" actually does to change where your foot is for any given torque!. Frankly, once you've driven an EV for abotu 5 min you just turn the regen on max, and 1 pedal them everywhere. Using the brake pedal to slow only for un-intended emergency stops, and driving purely on the accelerator pedal, where the logic is really simple:
Want to go faster than you are now = accelerate more
Want to go the same speed as you are now = hold you foot where it is
Want to go slower than you are now = lift off a bit.
So when going down a hill and the car speeds up a bit because gravity is now assisting you, just lift off a bit, which reduces your driver demand (all the way to negative torque on really steep hills) and the car will hold the speed you are currently go.
I've not found any EV drivers that don't find this completely intuitive within a few hours of driving !
(and it renders all the paddles and what not pointless. The OEs put them in because it adds "saleable features" and differentiates the brands, but they are, as i said, window dressing.....)
Good video nice experiment
so, white board time, car weight and speed, mixed with some conversion efficiency and you can make a nice video about how much energy is in the car moving :)
The reasoning that you use a bit more kWh/100km "because you are in the hills" surprises me...
When that regeneration actually works so well, there should be no difference, right?
You get exactly the same energy back for going down a hill that it took to go up, and in an electric car when you do not use that downhill energy to overcome the wind and roll resistance, it will be fed back into the battery.
"You get exactly the same energy back for going down a hill that it took to go up" -- No, you don't. Friction, air-drag etc. affect the car both uphill and downhill -- they don't magically disappear anywhere when going downhill -- so you still lose some efficiency. Also, there are losses in the regen-circuitry as well. Otherwise you'd have just invented a perpetual-motion engine!
@@WereCatf Of course those factors remain, but they are the same on a flat road.
So it does not explain why one would consume more energy "for being in a hilly district".
The only explanation would be the loss incurred during charge/discharge.
You realize that the brake pedal uses regen as well? As long as the brake force is sufficient, the car will regen and only use the actual brakes if you require more stopping power.
Toyota Hybrids have been working like this for over 20 years. No need to fiddle around with flappy paddles.
I like the flappy paddle!
I'd like to find a way to actually detect when it's using the mechnical brakes. Technically I don't know when and how much it's using them.
Regen braking is disabled when using cruise control? Pretty sure that's not the case.
Dave! Your on the wrong side of the road!
No he's not.........UK here.....:)
I guess considering the great Australian Power grid you need as mush regen in your electric car
I can get my best fuel efficiency on fast moving, moderately heavy freeway (motorway) traffic. Got to count using the draft. Even the birds in big cities learn this and "surf" the air above the cars.
What are the gantries at every on and off-ramp for?
Electronic tolls
Probably tolls. Some of us spend > $20 a day just on tolls in Sydney. Sometimes my petrol is cheaper for a trip than the price of the tolls.
I knew it had to be some sort of scam on the public. The UK and former British colonies are pretty well known for nickel and diming its citizens.
@@psygn0sis nah we sold our roads so they're private tolls (at least some of them). just like sydney airport train station is private and they charge $15 "access fee". for a train station!!
Yes, toll points as others said.
Ah, but now, what kind of distance can you drive before needing a charge, coasting versus regeneration?
That's explained by those numbers, just do the math based on the battery capacity.
Why did u censor the meter at 15:59???
I used to catch the 6am flight up from Melbourne and drive out to auburn down fkn parramatta rd. I hate Sydney traffic
Does regen braking still work when the car is at 100%?
No
Well, some cars have a buffer meaning you cant actually charge it to real 100% so they will still regen a little but not at full power
I'm not an electric car expert, but technically you had to use more power to accelerate than you can possibly regenerate *unless* you were going downhill. On flat ground, it will always take more power to go from 0-60 than can be recovered by going 60-0 due to transfer and drag losses. Your question is perfectly valid when rolling downhill, though, and I assume that the car will *not* use regenerative braking if it thinks that the battery is currently full.
@@antibrevity its 100% for a reason if you keep pumping energy in it you will damage the cells
@@ReelyRacing Yes, but the fact that it says "100%" on the display does not mean the battery is that full that it cannot be charged any further.
The 0% and 100% marks will normally be like 10% away from the actual limits.
Hey Daiyve, how many op amps in that thing?
Camera FOCUS Dave!!!!! Please man.
What I want to see is EVs with the lithium ceramic batteries though that could be in a couple of years.
Electric cars never need a tune up?
No. Just checking the brakes and aircon systems etc every 12 months.
In the UK if you tried to coast someone's up your ass or they overtake you just use the soding regen
Just add regenerative braking to a normal car and pump all that power to the sub woofers 😁 Some people will get this one.
Why is "regen braking" related to "one-pedal driving" and "cruise control"?
These are 3 orthogonal concepts, right?
Ok, probably in that car the touching of the brake pedal directly applies the friction brakes, there is no first phase where it just uses regen to do the braking.
But still, I don't understand why it would not just keep speed when you use cruise control and use regen to brake the car when you go downhill and it would speed up when there is no drive or braking at all!
There apparently is still a lot to gain in the user interface, I don't see why you would need a new user interface with that paddle and the mandatory one-pedal drive, it should be able to use accellerator/brake pedal functionality where it knows by itself whether it has to accellerate, coast or brake an whether to use regen of friction braking.
Doesn't Tesla do it that way?
Nice
Odd seeing road signs for Liverpool... thats where I'm from.. in the UK of course :)
My partner is getting a hybrid soon as a Mobility car, looking forward to seeing the difference !
My step-mum has the Ioniq Hybrid (the mid range model ~£300 advance rental) on Motability and will probably get one again when it comes up for renewal later this year, she gets 74MPG and she says it has a good amount power for overtaking, something she puts to good use when people think they can overtake her when it's not a good idea to do so.
Certinaly better than the PT Cruiser Cabrio she had a few cars back!
Sydney, NSW, Australia
nice vide..but not sure why you were hiding your vehicle speed..any reasons ? Well i expect you went faster and you didn't want to be used as evidence. I expect that is the reason :)
That's no proper test.
Didn't even take it apart.
And no direct current measurement hack on the battery ? Hall sensor and data recorder might be an option.
I think Tesla's are the only EVs not smart enough to use the brake pedal for regen. On Tesla the brake pedal always applies the mechanical brakes. Also it's obvious that coasting as opposed to regen is the most efficient way of slowing down (no conversion losses) it's just that ICE drivers behind get pissed off when you slowly come to a stop
Once you drive a Tesla you realise you almost never touch the brake pedal, and if you moderate your right foot well you are coasting in a lot of scenarios anyway. That being said, yeah they could easily do both, must have done without an analog sensor on the brake pedal
@@adrianleitch6996 I don't want to modulate the right foot, i want the car to coast without me doing anything.
Also the Tesla setup is much simpler because the brake pedal is always connected to the brakes (hydraulically). in other EVs (Hiunday, Nissan, Renault at least) the car has to choose if to apply the brakes or not, depending on speed, required deceleration, state of charge, temp etc. It's basically brake by wire. the good stuff
Unfortunately here corrosion in the EV brakes is really annoying (potentially dangerous) side effect. Porsche has designed brake discs with non-corroding fiction surface, but they are super expensive and require special calibers and pads.
But thanks for the really interesting video 🙂💯. If I would be driving/buying a new car - it would certainly be an EV.
people only hide their speed when going over the limit. guilty guilty
If the road he was on is known, the intersection that the crossed would have a known distance between markings, and based on the video can be worked out. ;P ...Not that I would want that, but would be interesting scientifically. I came down here to see if anyone else had noticed that.
Don’t use imperial? That’s why we beat your ass in WW2 and we are the oldest country to ever exist.
Jokes aside, thanks for that insight. I just got my EV and I’ve been using regen braking, the single pedal, and I hate it. It’s harder to judge the stop distance because it’s really binary on my Chevy Bolt, either on or off. And it feels like either hard on the brakes or no brakes. I’ve started using a combo of the regen and brake pedal so it’s more consistent. No option on coasting regen for this car
STOP START Traffic on way home / to work is sole destroying!
If you calculate the 24 HR DAYS you spend per year in the car traveling to-from work each year its...... depressing!
Regen is best demonstrated by going up and down a hill. Driving on more or less flat roads, regen isn't as effective.
Certainly not when driving at more or less constant speed. But when in a city or another road where you regularly need to stop and start, it should be effective as it should recharge the battery from the energy that is normally dissipated in the brakes when coming to a stop.
Hearing the energy efficiency of the car in kWh/100 km made me think of what-if.xkcd.com/11/ . In it, Randal Monroe explores dimensional analysis of fuel economy. A milage of 29 mpg is roughly equivalent to 8 L/100 km. Which is the same thing as 0.008 mm² which has the dimensions of cross-sectional area. But how can that be interpreted? If you imagine a cylinder running along side your car that has all of the fuel you consume, 0.008 mm² is the (average) cross-sectional area of that cylinder! So you can multiply 0.008 mm² by the length of your journey to find out how much fuel you use!
So how does this relate to kWh / 100 km? If you use the figure as given by Dave for his car's efficiency, 10 kWh / 100 km, that reduces to 360 N. This is the average force of the drivetrain acting on the ground, air, and internal car systems as it goes along! If you multiply that by your trip distance, you'll get how much work was done by said battery, in joules!
to convert mpg to L/100km (and vice versa) just divide one of the values into 282 eg 29mpg = 282/29 or 9.7L/100km
Without the speed display, this really doesn't say all that much. Too bad that youtube seems to be full off assholes that made you cover this number up, even though you probably didn't even break any speed limits.
On the other hand, what I find interesting is the fact that city driving is less efficient than motorway driving - I would have thought it's the other way around (and here in Germany, it certainly is), because in the city, you always regenerate and put a charge back into your battery, which of cours lowers the kWh per 100km you use, while on the Autobahn, you usually go at least 100km/h, more like 120-130km/h (and at many places you could go even faster and put a big old dent into your range), but you never regenerate much, so all the energy is being used to fight against the wind, rolling resistance of the tires and so on.
Also, about not using your brakes: Have a look through your wheels onto your brake disks. When they start getting rusty, you should use your brakes for a little while, just to clean off the rust from the disks, because otherwise you may actually damage your brakes by not using them, and if you then should need them in an emergency situation, they won't work as well because of a really thick layer of surface rust. I'd gladly sacrifice a few km of range in order to avoid a scneario like this...
You used the same hair dye as Clive did when he dyed his beard?
No
#LightingDifferencesMatter
You drive much to close to cars in front.
Ride a bicycle Scooter or motorcycle Yoll get your jym time and save you lotta $$$
hopefully it doesn't catch fire
Your mobilephone has more chance to catch fire than an electric car
@@dtibor5903 that is not saying much. And Hyundai are specialists with cars that catch fire. I guess Korean cars are just like Korean Samsung phones.
Well at least it will be able to catch fire due to gasoline, but maybe if it is too close to a gas car ;)
Your gas car is also an order of magnitude more likely to catch fire as well ;). There's a reason there's a firewall between the driver and the engine bay.
Internal combustion engine cars were basically cremation ovens on wheels for about 50 years. The safety standards are much higher now, and electric cars are not worse, they are different, batteries burn differently than gasoline. Just the media is like: LoOk A tEsLa cAtChEd oN FiRe. It's exactly like vaccine causes autism, but with cars.
5:56 should of stopped...
I hate that supposed metric rubbish. It is bad.
In Imperial the values are MPG or Miles per gallon
But the Metric system has it as Kw/100KM how much is that in the proper Km/kW?????
That has nothing to do with the metric system! The equivalent in the US would be kWh/100miles I guess.
There is a different unit being measured here. It would be possible in imperial as well.
E.g. in Europe and Australia the normal car consumption is indicated in liters/100km, not in kilometers-per-liter which would be the equiv of MPG.
So it is not surprising that an electric car then indicates kWh/100km which is a similar unit (higher is worse).
Engineering Explained made a video explaining the reasoning behind energy/distance versus distance/energy:
th-cam.com/video/oLQmwOX6Xds/w-d-xo.html
I prefer litres/km km/litre