One and done is not a big deal - TEKKEN 8
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
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Thanks everyone for engaging in this polarizing topic and sharing your opinions. While I have my own takes, I really enjoy reading through yours.
Btw: I have an S+ rematch rating ingame.
i think one and done not only effects me, but the whole ranked system in general. If Mr Scrub decides to duck the second rematch because they know they are gonna lose, then he avoids losing points which in turn makes ranked system less honest. Mr Scrub gets to hold on to the rank he damn well knows he would've lost if he rematches again. But yea if you have to poo or something then I wont argue for that.
If it's a true Mr. Scrub, he will propably then gets his points taken by the next guy aswell. While I understand the point, I don't think it makes that big of a difference.
@judge_rekt I respect the opinion. if we wanna consider ranked to be competitive, then I believe it does make enough of a difference. Pair that with plugging, and now we just can't take ranked seriously at all, lol. And who knows, like you said in the video, they could have more important things in their personal life going on then to play you again.
@@3Vladimir Oh, yeah. Plugging is like cheating, if you ask me. I know some people might loose connection, but that should be the minority. If Namco makes it so that people would loose points for plugging, that should fix the issue. You can't get rid of this 100%, but it seems to be the best solution for me. Some people also mentioned giving winners bonus points for completing a set. Great idea.
For me what is more frustrating is the 2 and done when the games are split 1-1. I agree 1 and done is whatever, but if both players choose to rematch it should default to a bo3 set.
What grinds my gear is when u accept an opponent and he has near perfect connection and mid game he starts lagging cos either pc is potatoe and he takes advantage of it then doesn’t even Try to rematch, even though I will leave either way if I win or lose cos he’s laggy.
This happens a lot with wireless connections.
1. Imo, ranked is supposed to imitate a serious competitive setting to allow players to prove their skills and practice vs similarly skilled players. A serious setting for fighting games in my eyes are something similar to tournament sets usually ft2 to allow players to adapt. 2. I think the current rank system promotes 1 n doning to a huge extent, "oh this guy knows my cheese let me not rematch him so I can farm the guy that doesn't know my cheese since it's a new game. Or "this guy is the same rank as I let me avoid him so I can play people in the lower ranks to farm points."
3. The reason people care is not only because of people saving their points but its also creates a feeling of people not wanting to learn the game and adapt even in close matches people will just leave. This becomes wayyyy more common in late Blue ranks along with plugging.
4. People also care because they want the game they enjoy having a great ranked system, imo even if forced ft2 was implemented it wouldn't magically fix all the issues with it. I personally think there should be incentives for finishing the set. If forced ft2 existed, you would also be locked into a laggy set.
Those are my reasons but I definitely think the answer to this problem is to maybe add set win bonuses.
I don't get the 3rd point, because why do people even care about points of strangers and not just their own?
The "completing a set bonus" is an idea I really like. It would not take away the decision and freedom everyone has to rematch, or not rematch. But at the same time it would incentivise the people to complete a set. Sounds great, I should've thought about that.
@@judge_rekt I think there's multiple reasons not only just points. But to answer the points part people like their leaderboards and they want the leaderboard to be as perfect as possible avoiding set losses and cherry-picking matchups in a ranked setting is lame, but the game allows for it and the ranked system promotes it, Why lose 1K+ to the Tekken Emperor or someone your level when you can just lose 500 and call it there.
I also think the "One and Done" convo is blowing up because its honestly the worst its been in a fighting game that I played. I feel like its a result of the ranking system in general but it is alot higher than it was in other games. Waiting 5 - 10 mins for a match just for it to be a non-completed set just isn't satisfying to me and alot of other players but it is what it is.
@@kristopherstrickland5960 At the moment it takes me 10sec to find another opponent in T8 with connection set to 5 only and ranks + - 2. But yeah, when you wait for 5-10mins for a match, it is much more frustrating, because you finally find a match and it's over when it could've been played longer. Don't know how the situation with other games is tho. Heard MK1 is pretty much dead at the moment, so I can see people really want to play as long as possible. Convo is also propably blowing up a lot, because lots of people take things too serious sometimes, instead of just enjoying the game. The majority of people complaining are no Tekken Gods, or Gods of Destruction. When you are up there, well known pro player, I totally understand this topic from a different perspective.
In my case, I know I like to rematch except in two occasions:
1- The connection sucks, lagging hard at times, so what's the point in continuing.
2- There's a huge skill disparity (as in one easily perfects the other or close enough), so neither will actually learn anything from the set.
But really, if anybody doesn't want to rematch, it's ok. It feels stupid to tell others they have to rematch (or not) just because I think so. For all we know, other players might not rematch because they just wanted to play one match, or need to go, or have a sudden emergency... who knows?
One and doner wins -> instant transmission (most likely to block you)
One and doner loses -> begs for rematch or ready up fast
One and doner loses the following rematch -> ragequit
One and doning (especially with a high disconnection rate) is a seed to a ragequitter. Take it from LTG
I can see that a lot of toxic people one and done. But I think it's because they are generally toxic already.
Here is my problem with people quitting. Doesn't matter if I win or lose the first match, I always rematch. Say I win, I think it's fair to let the other guy try again and learn something from that match and maybe beat me this time around. Say I lose, than I would like a chance to learn and possibly beat the other guy. I think it's pretty shitty to just win and quit. It's even worse if I beat the guy the first match than let him rematch and he beats me and than just quits. If I give you a chance to beat me and redeem yourself, I would like that chance in return as well.
Yeah, I don't really understand the logic behind people quitting after winning. Doesn't make sense to me, other than maybe something irl happened they need to pay attention to.
@@judge_rekt Good point. If they need to leave than yeah it makes sense to leave. Totally understood.
@@SuperArmushad this happen to me today. i won and gave him a rematch. then he beat me and left after the 2nd game. this is in quick match btw lol
@@MoeMunnie023 this happens almost every with me.
For me it’s not about ranked points, it’s about wasting time and constantly having to go back in queue. I wanna play the game and adapt to my opponent. What made tekken 7 beautiful was the ability to deathmatch if both agreed to it. Bo3 should be mandatory imo.
I hope you read this cause I do feel its a solid point and would like to hear a retort either from you or in the comments.
The main reason is to accurately represent a players skill. All games have RNG, I'm not saying Tekken is a random game im just saying there's an element. Playing out a set will more accurately show where a player falls within their own variance. This is particularly true when someone steals a win by spamming a string you may not have seen in a while. Would that have won another set if you adjusted? While you might argue: "just adjust faster" the newer mechanics and increased damage make this extremely difficult for your average player (nevermind how knowledge based this game is to begin with). Leaving you feeling cheated when someone win quits you. Then in the -next game lets say you win and the other person leaves it may cause some irrational frustration. To be honest i think the strong feelings on this topic are due to 8's more frustrating mechanics and power creep some members of the cast are currently famous for. It leads to a lot of "If I only handled that one interaction differently".
In my own experience; I don't get upset when people leave on a loss. It's more when my opponent win quits. I feel like I've been denied the opportunity to improve. In tekken 7 I would Rematch 10 loss's in a row if it meant i figured out how to deal with that frame trap or block that one tricky string and land the punish. I understand that's a bit extreme but it makes my point. Despite initially losing some ranks, I would usually gain a rank or two from where i started when i would go through this process. I'm not asking for 10 rematch's but I also want some more practical experience so I can understand what I need to lab better, and I would get that more so in a set then in a best of one.
In closing, Could you make the point your variance will get sorted out with time anyway, sure. Before that though, I'd ask; What about the characters you don't see often? If a kuma win quits you, and you've never played a kuma before that's not supposed to feel cheesy? Then you don't see another kuma for two weeks and it happens again , then replace kuma with any of the other bottom played top win percent characters. Your average player isn't going to lab all of them for a matchup they play once - twice a week, every other week or longer even in some cases. Give us a chance to play some Tekken...
I never really fully get it why people want to learn in ranked, when the game offers you so many tools to learn elsewhere. Not only labbing. I'd be the type of guy to learn in casual matches vs better players and then take it to ranked to see if I can put what I learned to good use. Also the game is total chaos at the moment. You meet people that are clearly worse and clearly better on the same rank as you are, but maybe just had no chance to play much yet. I'd just wish for people to not get so mad about it and just move on, because in contrary to a plug, they don't loose anything. They took their points and get the next guy. And yeah, people not rematching on a win, I don't really see the logic in that, but I just accept it, because I can't tell people what they should, or should not do. In a year, or so, people will propably spread much more accurately through the ranks, getting more and more where they really belong. And even if someone is cherrypicking, in the long run they will loose their points against the better players again.
In T7, I also rematched like 10 games in a row, but that was more likely, because you were happy to find someone to play with and did not want to stay another 5mins in the queue.
I also rematch a lot in T8, btw. I just think it's not a big deal if someone has to go, or whatever reason to not rematch, because we don't know. Pretending the dude was a "coward", or anything like that, is just narrow minded projection. Game would make a better impression on new people, if the players would not tell them what to do all the time, or else they are this and that.
Good comment, btw.
Why you should rematch? Easy! I think you should rematch everyone if you want to learn. Adaption is big part of this game. Only times I one and done is with shit connection or yeah have something to do like bathroom.
That all being said, this is how I see it and do it. Nobody owes me an rematch or something stupid like that xD
Its kinda more scummy if they rematches when they won but if i win the second game then they leave. But still they dont owe me an rematch sooo mehhh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Still would have been fun to see if they could adapt to the adaption earlier you know ;) )
Sounds fair. Though lots of people would propably argue that they learn in many situations, like lab, casual (because nothing to loose there), play vs friends who are better and then go ranked to get on the next level, instead of using ranked as their primary learning tool.
watch me while i plug walk, i just let that heat talk
After being defeated, I'll feel unconvinced and hope to prove that your victory over me was just due to luck. When I win, I usually offer my opponent a chance for revenge, fair enough. However, whether to choose a rematch is the player's right. One shouldn't be blamed for didn't press that button to start a match they're not interested in.
This is a complicated situation that can be fixed with simple solutions. Only reward rank points to players that meets any of these specific criterias.
1. Win two full successful matches.
2. If you have a win and accept a locked in rematch but your opponent declines the rematch.
Rank points will not be rewarded to players who meet these criterias.
1. Not obtaining two full match wins.
2. Having either 1 win or 1 loss, declining a rematch before or after an opponent accepts a rematch.
Will this be fair?
@@kisame004 I still think the best way to do it is to give people bonus points for completing a set. That way you don't force anyone. It is still just a game. Some people take it way too serious and forget that gaming should be about fun.
@@judge_rekt The solutions I gave is giving points for completing a set or multiple. It's both the player's choice to accept the points or not for accepting or declining the remaining sets.
Like you said it's just a game, it's not serious, if they want the points, keep playing, if they don't, decline the rematch. Simple.
@@kisame004 But getting nothing would propably hurt the game. People are already annoyed by the ranked system beeing not really good. The way the points getting distributed is weird. They should work on that first. For some reason Namco is always doing some weird stuff with their ranked system, ignoring all the suggestions from people. So if you make it so that people would get nothing, when they don't complete the set, I think more people will just play quick match. The idea is to motivate people by giving them more, if they complete a set and then naturally more people would propably play ranked again and finish their sets. At least that's what I believe.
@@judge_rekt Why are you assuming the player is getting nothing? The player that wins a set and declines the rematch, simply gets the last win instead of points. The losing player that declines the rematch before the completion of a set activates the reward points for the winning player that accepted the continuation of the set. If the winning player wants to fight for the points with additional wins, by all means continue the set till completion, this also fixes unplayable laggy matches where neither player is potentially not rewarded any points due to circumstances that are out of their control, simple. Like you said the game is all about fun and not serious. Everybody wins with this format. If the player doesn't want to play for points/no consequence format, then casual quick match mode is available instead of rank. It's their choice, it's not serious.
@@kisame004 I understand from your reply that a player who wins one match, but then leaves the set, is not getting any ranked points for the win. And I don't think this would be a good idea, because it will make people avoid ranked and play quick match from the get go. Better give people points for a win and take them away for the loss, but give the player who wins a set an additional bonus. That way everyone is motivated to play the full set, without taking stuff away from them. But no matter what ideas we share, at this point, I doubt that Namco will listen to any feedback.
L take, nothing beats the feeling of losing the first game and running it back 2-0. Ranked SHOULD be bo3/ft2 in the first place.
Maybe. But some people out there don't want/need this feeling. Got a friend I told him to play this and that game, because I know he would love to experience them. He still has not played these games. Can't force him to do so, just because I think it's great.
Both sides of the arguments can be true. If both players are playing to improve, a set is important. The reality is that not everybody cares about improving and a lot of people playing Tekken just want to grind wins. A lot of players use very gimmicky skill-test playstyles and they KNOW if their opponent has an extra round or a rematch they get figured out. They are the same ones who used to dupe players into best of 1 matches in older games where they play the toxic glitchy or "broken" characters. It can be a bit of both if either side if willing to admit the other side's point.
1 and done. Fine for me. Do it myself in case I need to do something else. Playing casual, so no stress in hobbytime… btw when drops the next beginner guide? Thx for the video 🎉
Looking into Shaheen this week. Will propably finish this one on the weekend. I just wanted to play a bit for myself the last couple of days, everyone is playing ranked and I am here, not catching up to all my friends, because half the time I was recording videos :D
@@judge_rekt nice looking forward… people judge by far to fast in the internet. We are playing a game, it’s worth nothing in the “real” world… cannot pay my bills with my rank or earned points.
@@user-hg2hy2zb4q I get that people like to get a competitive feel when playing ranked, yet I'd advise everyone to not just chase a number, but actually go out there and combine the gaming passion with the real life, to experience something real. Visit conventions and tournament. Meet like minded people in the real life and play together on a couch next to each other. When I started doing that, it was not just gaming anymore. Gaming turned into a real passion and I'd say everyone just sitting at home playing for themself is missing out on something great.
People sounding entitled I 1 and done laggy players or if I don’t want to if I was forced to do a set I would quit out but pluggers are a holes I got a guy plug in me in 1st Dan lol you don’t even lose points
I basically made all these arguments elsewhere, it really hurts nothing and no one to one and done. If the game was 100% balanced, (impossible i know) then I would rarely ever one and done, but a simple analysis combined with player data make it clear that not all characters are created equal. That also has implications for one and done. If your chess set has 3 queens and mine had one, i will feel very good if i defeat you, but i will also not play you as much as everyone else.
lol this is just people being mad that their peers dont acknowledging them xD
if this is a deal breaker for you then you got some huge ego issues... forreal..
I want my double points
I support this 100%
One and done is terrible because it isn't a definitive decision on who is actually better. If you only care about winning then one and done is fine. But if you care about getting better and finding out who is better, then a set would provide better information for that. Anyone can beat digo in a first to one, but how many people can beat him in a 1st to 10? So if you only care about taking your wins and artificially boosting your stat by winning with gimmicks that wouldn't work past the first match, then that's on you and you are entitled to do that. But if you want to actually get better and not have to resort to gimmicks, then playing a best of three or a best of five is definitely better.
Wouldn't say winning a FT2 is a good way to find out who's better. FT10, yeah, propably much more accurate. Got a friend who is worse than me, because of many factors, but he also can win rounds, if I make mistakes. Also, after a match is done, 5secs later I already forgot the name of the guy I just played with. It's just a random stranger on the internet. Getting better, or win vs a pro player, someone with a name out there, or knowing you're better than your real life friends, I can imagine this giving some good feelings, but knowing to be better than someone you don't even know does not seem to matter too much, at least to me.
Well it's not about feeling better...it's about getting better, at least for those who want to actually learn and improve. If I have a gimmick and it carries me to a win, but I bounce before the opponent has time to figure it out, am I learning anything, or am I giving myself a false sense of accomplishment? If you lose to a gimmick, or god forbid a missed input in a clutch moment, does that mean your loss was legit? Yes, of course. Do you want to try and learn from your mistake? Of course. But if the other guy is just trying to feel good about himself by playing gimmicks, that's fine too, but there's a ceiling for that type of play.
@@RetroKid Sure, people who rely on gimmicks will plateau at some point.
@@judge_rektso there's your valid point. People who are for the runback are actually trying to learn from a set, and not get randomed out by a gimmick or one-trick-pony. They're also not the ones trying to inflate their score by taking the points they earned with gimmicks and hiding before getting exposed as one trick ponies. Yes, the are emergencies and the are perfectly good reasons to one and done, but we're talking about the players who only care about keeping their points more than about learning the game. If you one and done, you're either someone who tries on gimmicks or someone who doesn't care about learning a matchup.
In before "I just want to have fun. Why do I have to take it as seriously as you?" comments.
the only time one and done bothers me is when people do it after losing a match, like if u play someone and u beat them they will leave but if they beat you they will rematch and then leave if u beat them in the rematch, kinda pathetic tbh
That's a different story, yeah. Leaves a bad aftertaste when that happens. Still not worth getting mad over that, I think. The more mad people get, the more it effects their gameplay and your mood will just spiral downwards.
Ultra competitive nerds want a chance to win a set back, also some people game plan by adapting to their opponent, still I think one and done is fine
Some competitive casuals just wana farm points from people who dont know there strings yet 😂 thats why they “peer pressure” people to stop the one and done 💀 kinda bums really cuz real pros dont mind it.
LAYER > 0 IS MORE FUN THAN LAYER 0
The main thing is that it's considered proper etiquette in the FGC that, barring extenuating circumstances like food on the stove burning, you finish the set. One and done, especially after they win, is usually an indication of one of two things:
1: They know they're probably gonna get downloaded the next game and blown up.
2: They're simply more interested in fast ranking and not about improving.
Either way, you're right, fair play they don't owe you anything. Lol points are mine suckers!
Down the road though, they're gonna reach a point where their cheese and lack of adaptation is gonna catch up to them, and they're gonna drop the game at that point because they don't know how to improve. That's the point of why it's bad, to me, because they're intentionally sabotaging their own growth. It's not about points, it's about growing the player base, and getting a better skilled player base. One and done doesn't help in this goal, at all.
Personally I laugh and talk shit win someone doesn't rematch me after they get bodied, but I'm not taking to the internet to shame them. More just a laugh, makes me feel good about myself to be respected and feared xD. Then again, I played league of legends for like 10 years, so all the salt and toxicity in the fighting game to me is like... not even real lol. I saw a fighting game video where they were arguing about skill-based matchmaking... in fighting games.
Got 6000hrs in Dota 2. I know exactly how you feel.😅
Lel L take didn't even watch the video yet
You do you, I guess. Lel.
people absolutely do dip out because they had no interest in giving you a chance to get "your" points back especially if you are figuring out your opponents cheese.. to do that in ranked flies in the face of competition.. it is certainly not breaking the rules to climb the ranks that way but it is weak, IMO..
you like making ranked tutorials in red ranked ending with perfects only on people you know you can embarrass on the internet is also weak..
& if you are not telling people watching your tutorials you are farming/cherry picking your matches then you would be being disingenuous to them..
i don't normally leave comments on youtube but you did ask for pushback for almost 20 minutes..
The guides are for people who just got their first Tekken game and have no idea where to start, not about how to climb ranks. I chose red as a goal for every starter to then decide whether they wanna keep playing that character and get deeper into them, or not. And instead of just reading the move list to them, I chose to make them more visually interesting by adding perfect rounds as bonus clips and motivation to show people that they can also do that. Don't know how many turns you took to come up with that I want to embarrass people.😂
LOLz that's fair..still not a fan of hunting down jobbers for content but i was a bit dramatic..
i do stand by the rest though, BTW..
There are WAY too many contradictions in this video. this one should not have been off the dome brother. Long story short, 1 and done just wastes someone else's time because now they have re-que and go through two more long loading screens vs just hitting rematch. Like it's not that hard to understand that other people get enjoyment from learning this game 😂
To me this reads like your main issue is the lack of infinite rematches and that the game limits ranked to FT2.
Not even watching a vid. Just came in to drop a dislike. Peace
Dude is trying to win the speedrun contest of how to look stupid on the internet.
But thanks for the engagement and the dislike.
I appreciate it :)