The rule change for pre-rotation is one thing. Whether judges can ACCURATELY recognize it and assess it would be another thing. There have been too many incompetent judges who couldn't even see wrong edges and URs. I strongly believe that ISU should 1. Bring in multiple cameras and evaluate the jumps from all angles; 2. all judges should take a course, a training, and an exam all over again to be better judges; 3. make them reveal the reasoning for how they determined each GOE.
Elizabet Tursynbaeva has been recuperating from injury and basically sat out this past season. Given that she's 20, it's possible she's considering retirement. At the same time, she has a free ticket to the Olympics with Kazakhstan in 2022, so perhaps she's just taking the time to make sure she's fully recovered before making one last run at glory. (Her Danse Macabre program intended for last season showed a lot of promise; hopefully, she uses it this season if she returns.) However it unfolds, she deserves credit for pulling off 4CC and Worlds silvers past her 18th birthday.
I hope she really takes her time with recovery. Especially when you consider how tough are trainings with Eteri, as we got a bit of news about that from Evgenia, it's a miracle she was able to pull that 4S at the end of the season, while possibly still being in pain/injured
@@hannibaljustincase9985 Yeah, I really like Lilbet. I hope she takes the time to recover and I hope we haven't seen the last of her. She seems like a sweet, smart, and well-rounded girl, too. Here's a cute IG post she did for Eteri on her birthday earlier this year...instagram.com/p/B88bRyVJXiw. She, Yulia, and Zhenya were all skating together with Eteri when they were babies! I wonder if there are any photos of the three of them together from those days?
@@TheSkatingLesson that is just plain rude. I mean i like watching your videos bec. most of the time you really make some good points. And I also appreciate some of your constructive criticism. But calling underage and hardworking girls "garbage", is crossing the line, isnt? (yes i know lilibet is 20y.o)
Ezia Auditore the style of their programs is the garbage, not the girls. Dani G slaps them together with minimal effort or imagination. Have you ever noticed they all have a formula?
My Sunday tradition for the last 2 years has been to bake bread and watch TSL, I look forward to it all week. I'm so glad that you're still posting so much content during these strange quaretimes, it makes quarantine while living alone much more tolerable!
Here is the thing : Honestly, how else would these girls ( Sasha / Anna - and, yes, I know Anna’s pre-rotation has a more) complete these difficult jumps without some level of pre-rotation? I think it unfair to compare women’s jumps to men ( a lot of videos on TH-cam do this). Also, I find it off-putting when people compare a “good” triple lutz,to (a pre-rotates) quad lutz. That it simply an illogical comparison. Also, not all people jump the same way. Sure, maybe a “perfect” (aesthetically pleasing ) triple axel goes up before pulling in the arms. But is that a realistic expectation ? I think not, as we are all different. Anyways, I love you guys !!
@@amyl6426 I know what you mean as everybody's body is different and it does sometimes come down to preferenced technique (to suit each individual) rather than everybodys jumps to 'feel' the same.
Ben Bailey Agreed. If girls can’t do a proper quad, why reward them with big scores and victories for their cheated techniques? 3.4 revolutions can be counted as quads just because they’re woman? This is not gender equality.
honestly as someone who is NOT a figure skater, im a swimmer. I think I only remember a couple rules changing. the full body swim suit, and something to do with the backstroke ending and you having to be above the water. [which i always was and am] and it confuses me how they change the rules so often!
It's funny how people are saying the change in base values is to make Yuzuru competitive with Nathan. For both Yuzuru and Nathan, the change in the base values of the quads they can jump is ±0. Remember Yuzuru didn't jump the 4Lo at 4CC. And everyone knows that it's not the rules that are causing problems it's their implementation. Every judge is given the same stopwatch but they can operate it at their own timing however they like for different skaters. Intentionally or unintentionally they can start it early or stop it early and never be punished for it.
I agree. Nathan has the 4F but isn’t currently jumping the 4Lo; Yuzuru has the 4Lo but isn’t jumping the 4F. They both have a 4Lz, so I don’t think it’ll impact their rivalry much at all. I doubt that even the ISU is petty enough to change the rules for one athlete. Tbh I wish they hadn’t changed the rules at all; this is bound to just make things more confusing
@@allaboutyuzu They already changed the quad rules mainly for Nathan before. I mean who else did they change the repeating quad rules (and downgrading the points of quads) if not for Nathan? He was doing 6 quads and they could see where it was going. They also changed the backloading programs rules mainly because of Alina (or Eteri's camp as a whole). Don't underestimate how petty the ISU can be.
Melissa What’s wrong with ISU changing rules for repeating quads and backloading programs? I definitely applauded ISU. Those jumping beans, male or female, are trashing figure skating.
@@yolandaguo7153 So they are jumping beans because your fav can't do the jumps? Backloading programs wasn't great I suppose, but I'm simply refuting that they would never change rules to target one skater. They have in the past. If Sasha was successful this season I suspect they would have done something to nerf her too
as someone doing 3Lz and 3F with Russian technique, I can tell you that Lutz is easier for me than flip, and if you look at the russian girls it is the same for them too, so for me, this explains the base value change
The flip being the same value as the lutz was definitely weird to see. But, one possible theory explaining the change... I’ve heard that for some people, the anatomy of their hips can drastically impact their ability to properly go off an inside edge vs. outside edge on jumps. Perhaps this is to account for that and to be a more body-neutral way of scoring these jumps. This is all just my theory and speculation, though.
People are really thinking that 0.5 base value will make a difference between Yuzuru and Nathan? The main differentiator between them will be who lands the jumps on the day, and unfortunately Yuzuru hasn't been able to do that against Nathan.
Ever thought why yuzu is not able to perform his best against nathan ? Coz otherwise yuzu has no problems breaking world records his issue arises whenever he has to face nathan. That's bcoz hes nervous, why? Bcoz he knows his arsenal is lacking. Now thanks to this new hanyu rule he will gain confidence as his tech content is no longer inferior to Nathan's, and that's my dear who this rule will benefit him.
@@mooony94 mate, the change is miniscule. Yuzuru lost by 40 points last time. Confidence isn't the problem. He has to have the stamina to do 5 or 6 quads in a program
@@mooony94 Yuzuru can easily make up for the difference in BV of 4F and 4Lo by GOEs (if rewarded correctly) and by placing quad combinations and 3As in the 2nd half of his free. It's more about being able to skate clean when it's necessary. Last season the judges damaged his confidence significantly starting with the phantom UR calls at ACI. I think the judging last season really messed with his mentality because he is a skater that works every day to earn +5 GOEs and has always taken judges' scores very seriously.
@@benbailey159bb his sp isnt consistent either infact he does the biggest errors in his sp this happened both times he had to face nathan... its nerves ...
Dave, I also work in health insurance. Hope you are surviving ok during this crazy time. As always, appreciate the videos and the ability to focus on something more entertaining. Thanks for everything.
I disagree about bringing down Lz BV. I personally don't know if Lutz jump is harder compared to flip jump. Some say that the counter rotation makes it harder but some said that it's the same as flip , it's just some skaters are natural lutz jumper. I personally love Lz jump when it's done right (like Rika's or Liza's lutz). I think it is a mistake changing the BV. 4Lo now has same BV as 4Lz and 4F whereas 3Lo does not. Maybe ISU reviewed past season jump trends? 4Lo was indeed the rarest. I heard from 1 commentator that 4Lo is hard because it's so much more difficult to launch yourself high enough from Lo entry to rotate 4x. Also some say that Lo jump could damage your spine long term. But one thing for sure, no one could have predicted that ISU released new guidelines in the middle of a lockdown. I am curious though how will judges use full blade rules to penalize the skaters.
One more thing to my previous point, on judges' ability to call 1/4 degree under rotations: unless ISU is preparing a big surprise with matrix style, AI-enabled, computer vision assisted judging - that deserves its own 'lol face' meme!
I love Raf and the time you spent on his interview... but the best part of this video is the last 2 minutes! Thank you Dave and Jonathan; I don't know if you read comments this late, but I hope so. Comparing these micro-adjustments to measuring violin angles and Jonathan's comparison to judging singing by relying on missing a quarter rest rather than cultivating the ability to hear and appreciate the timbre, the gorgeous interpretation, is it beautiful -- all great. Many figure skating fans all over the world agree with you two here! However, I do think the ISU, by making these changes, are trying to reward what they want to see. i.e. the changes in pairs in 2018 have meant that quality is rewarded over risk and danger. I like the "Q," because it means that skaters who only UR a little can get full value for the jump and only lose some GOE points.
If you think about it, making flip and lutz the same helps Kostornaia a lot because her second half bonus is the same as Scherbakkova (and Trusova in the short). Making the Quads the same helps Yuzuru.
"Making the Quads the same helps Yuzuru." Yes, because he couldn't remain competitive otherwise. Another disgusting dumbing down of the COP to unfairly advantage certain skaters and disadvantage others by the ISU. Then again, what else would you expect from an organization run by European socialists who punish achievement in an attempt to "level the playing field"?
lcowles Well, i remember people complaining that increasing the GOE range from -5 to +5 would help Yuzuru. Now Nathan is the one getting +4 and +5 across the board. Even when Yuzuru had better jumps especially 3A, you dont see +5 across the board. So who ended up benefiting more from the rule change? Nathan Chen. Nathan never get 4-5 for his transitions and skating skill, it is always almost the same as Hanyu’s. Who is benefiting from the dumbing down of COP?
No ,with two feet landing ,after performing her lutz ( there is a video of her Olympics Lp) Kaetlyn had no chance to win gold. Olympics medals were well deserved , evyrthing was fair.
Kaetlyn, like Evgenia and Alina, also had half turn pre-rotation on toe jumps. Even 4th place Satoko and 5th place Kaori have this as well. All the ladies use this technique, except veeeery few including Kostner, Tuktamysheva, Rika, Sotskova, and Tsurskaya. If the pre-rotation rule was in place in 2018, you would probably see Tuktamysheva and Tsurskaya on the Olympic team. And if they all skated clean, probably Tsurskaya would be Olympic champion as she has correct edges and the biggest jumps (I believe her 3Lz was calculated to be even bigger than Trusova's 4T). Tuktamysheva has a 3A but she would get called on her 3F edge and she didn't have a 3S so her layout would be limited and BV wouldn't be as high. Rika wasn't old enough, Sotskova did not perform well, and Kostner was inconsistent.
@@Helen-me1vn ,true ,but figure skating doesn't include just one jump (lutz) ,although Tsurskaya had the most correct lutz technique ,U'right ! Backloading program was favored than by the ISU as well as a multitude of transitions (Zhenya& Alina's programs were full of transitions ,also ). Anyway ,backloading -yes or no -i enjoyed and still enjoy watching Zhenya's both Olympics programs ,especially "Karenina" .
Okay, your knowledge of the structure, culture and nuances of Russian sports is staggering. And entertaining. Have a great week! Hope you can walk soon! Good luck with those sit spins
I watched the ISU Worlds 2017 mens comp today and then watched the TSL recap with Dave, J, and a woman. I was frankly a bit put off by the discussion of Yuzuru Hanyu's win and costumes. I usually enjoy the tea you guys bring, especially the Russian skating drama this season, but I appreciate these talks when they don't seem spiteful. (Newer listener from 2019)
*Correction Made. In regards to Flip/Lutz, why not reward them differently only if they can jump both? Why not reward them X points for the first jump (Flip or Lutz) and reward them X + Y points on the other? For example, if skater attempts: Lutz and then Flip, reward X points for Lutz* and X+Y points for Flip* (and vise versa). If there is an edge error, they can deduct points. In this way, the Lip jumper would not get advantage over Flutz jumper. I felt unfair that some skaters just naturally prefer Lutz and got higher points than Flip although they cannot jump Flip properly. PS Im back bc I'm bored.
this is exactly what raf & nathan said in interview with hersh. they said, bonus should be given if skater executes all three quads (lutz, flip & loop)
I agree quad flip (only quad) should have the same base mark as quad loop just because the quad loop has too much torque, it's very hard to check out of rotation during landing. However, quad lutz, if done right (taking off on the true outside edge without switching to the inside at any moment before takeoff), is way harder than both 4F and 4Lp and should have more base mark. That said, if all the flutzes are not penalized correctly. This discussion is moot.
In a russian article they calculated top 5 Russian women's scores and how many points they lost. Medevea lost the least points by far. Hanyu benefits. Orser wrote the rules.
I don't know how Fanyus can keep saying the ISU wants Hanyu to retire/are pushing Nathan when they try to nerf Nathan every other season. If anything they want an even rivalry where either one could win for ratings and money, and they aren't really getting one right now. Not that it'll matter in the end since Nathan will probably still win.
@@TheSkatingLesson I don't think the new base values benefit Hanyu that much since he finally brought back the 4Lz last year, and the difference between 4Lo and 4F was not that big. And if the ISU were really willing to support Hanyu, they could have increased the value of the 4A. (Well maybe they want him to stay in but not win.)
@@origamis9477 I think his 4Lz is as reliable as his 4Lo now. I don't think he will do 4F. I'm sure he will do 4A because he said he will. If he ever gives up on it, that will be the time he retires.
the "q" thing is ridicules its like a toy in the judges hands. jumps are not clearly under but wants to decrease the GOE so "q" jumps are under rotated but don't want to decrease its base value so "q"
Lol I also think Yana wrote it for Sasha, and the way Russians hate it on hot Sergey... like people it's a job of course he will go for the money 🙃 Also is ridiculous how some people hate on Adelya because she reminds them of Medvedeva like wtf, I can understand the love but the hate? She's like 12
@@lanhuong-xo7ec ok I can see that you don't understand English well, Yana (Plushenko's wife) and Adelya (skater) are mentioned in the video, and if you're familiar with all the russian drama you will understand better... I said 12 people because they understood the coment and like it
@@JaneRosee Im not a Russian. I don't know who wrote in place of Trusova 15 years old, my parents or managers. Ah Adelya Petrosya, that's how Eteribots hate Mevedeva, not the Russians
"may or may be a lesson in gaslighting" Well ain't that a fact lol. It would be upsetting if it wasn't so hilarious. Team Tut really has her claws in the ISU doesn't she?
Why would Tut want to reduce the BV of a 4Lz/3Lz if her skaters can compete with a flat or inside edge and still get full points? Especially since not all skaters can do that? (See Rika for the first half of the season). To me this scoring change is aimed at men. Also, why would Tut advocate for more strict rules against prerotation and full blade assistance? Anna and the younger girls in her group really struggle there. URs getting marked if they’re iffy at a quarter? Would hurt Aliona and Anna, who both have borderline 3A and quads.
I thought the rule changes were very anti-Shcherbakova with the full blade assist and as she was jumping 4 Lutzes in her free last season. ISU maybe wants to promote more diverse jumping repertoire? Still doesn't make sense to me though. And bringing down the value of the lutz is just infuriating, they've changed the sport all the way down to the beginner skaters without viable explanation. When I watch gymnastics I don't have any idea how those scores are calculated as I only watch during the Olympic season..I think figure skating is there for the casual viewers and then some.
Being an old (42) I absolutely hate how the judging is evolving. I long for the days when you could be drawn into a program as a performance and it was judged on its totality. I understood the need for IJS, and didn't mind it that much, but all this minutiae judging is really too much.
Pouring one out for Elizabet Tursynbayeva. I just love everything Kazakhstan (as long as it’s not Borat related, hate that movie) and I have NO idea why! I think it’s because the flag is such a pretty color...¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 🇰🇿
The half dozen skaters that I skate with find a proper lutz harder than the flip. Don't understand why the ISU is making them the same value. Is it to buoy the Eteri girls over Elizaveta's beautiful outside edge? And maybe it reduces the point score for the top Japanese women who have third lutz edges? I can't figure it out. But thanks for the commentary. Nice to hear about skating at least as a replacement for actually being allowed to skate
Interestingly enough, Elizaveta is one of the skaters who has a harder time with flip than lutz. She has a textbook lutz but an lip (incorrect edge flip).
@@Helen-me1vn that's bcoz it's quite rare for skaters to be good at BOTH flip and lutz, good lutzers usually have a lip and good flippers usually struggle with outside edge. Still a lutz is more difficult whether in triples or quads, hate isu for killing the gorgeous lutz.
@@mooony94 It depends on the skater, though. For example, the most difficult jump for Alina is the salchow and scoring wise it's the second lowest. Some skaters just have a natural affinity for certain jumps over others
Hi guys! I see a very high value of the quad to separate the rock stars from the masses. High scores will be used as a line of demarcation or for personal incentives for the hard work. The danger is for some skaters to not admit to physical limitations.
Hey Dave , I was watching one of your vids and it’s been getting me through the quarantine lol. I remember you talking about “ghee” oil in one of the vids .... and it’s basically clarified butter .... so like a purer form of butter. It’s healthier.
No I agree, a triple loop is easier than triple flip/lutz, but the quad loop is DEFINITELY ON PAR with quad flip and lutz. Look how easy quad flip and lutzes are for so many people who can't even jump triple axels!
This new rules of the ISU is so confusing and there are ridiculous they should go back to make new rules . I have a question for you guys if you can make the ISU rules what would they be?
About Elena Vaiceknovskaya. Again, when she made those "true" comments she was workng for fully government owned agency. That meand she traveled to all the sporting events on government money. That is why it was ugly when she concentrated her energy on one succesful coach in Russia. When you guys travel to competitions you have to weight it against if it's too expensive or not, she didn;t have to. That's why you can say watever the hell you want and she was hated by many. Now, being in the market herself I find she can say watever she wants.
Pretty funny that you guys mention hockey in Palm Springs. The NHL's newest team, in Seattle, which is joining the league in 2021, announced this past fall that their minor league team is going to play out of a soon-to-be built $250mm arena in downtown Palm Springs. Could explain why Frank Carroll's rink is closing, i.e. in anticipation of the forthcoming competition? In any case, I don't know about you guys, but I think this arena (and Palm Springs in general) could be perfect for a Skate America in the next few years. I love Vegas, but the Orleans Arena is far from just about everything. Downtown Palm Springs would be a bit more convenient and fun, especially with a newly built arena.
I was wondering why the triple lutz, flip, and loop were not changed as well. I was laughing in my head because I remember the day all the ladies were doing triple lutz double toe in the short program, and I have wondered how many skaters would have rather have done triple flip double toe. I also wonder with what they are doing with the quads now, should the salchow and toe be the same too value too? One is an edge jump and the other is a toe jump but they are both considered the easiest jumps to do. It leaves so many questions in my mind. Like to know what people think.
Omg...off ice jumps in front of tv....I did that for YEARS since I was little! I could do a clean single axel-jump, and I could do a double toe and also double 'looks-like a flip-but-not-a-flip'. My lutz never got off the ground. I did it so much for so long(yes even well into my thirties..I sometimes cannot sit still) that my right hip has gone stiff and the fork in my foot hardly bends. Hurts when I go speedskating because I'm so assymetrical in flexibility.
Did you see the Dick Button challenge? He windmills his arms. He says this will help the skaters with arm flailing, which is apparently the 'in' thing.
As a lawyer who redlines contracts all the time for no reason except to show the other side we are serious I am personally offended by this conversation 😂
They made lutz and flip equal to have more rivalry in ladies. Many more girls are stable with flip and less stable with lutz. The same goes to q. Banning quads and raising age in ladies would be a wiser step. No rivalry is possible as long as quadsters are around, which is upsetting. Would love to have more competition taking place. This season was boring.
Rule changes are not bringing new interest in for USFSA. As the judging gets more precise and nit-picky, the interest by the general public is going to wane. General understanding of figure skating is no longer common knowledge in the US.
I predict that if they go forward with the season they will try to arrange GP locations that are in nations where there is a small case load or where it has been resolved. Perhaps athletes will be expected to arrive early and train in isolation at local rinks for a week or two before competing to ensure that everyone is healthy. Then remove audiences. The MLB is hosting games without audiences but only in Arizona. So I assume this will be the same.
The thing is, Slovakia for example is one such country with low infection rate and well handled situation - they just cancelled both Nepela challenger and JGP Kosice - probably because they want to keep doing well with the pandemic. This might happen with other locations. From point of view of the hosting country, it might just be too much of a risk. Then there is an issue of athletes being unable to train on ice or to get through the boarders at all - in Moscow you cannot even leave your house currently and this situation will fluctuate for different areas creating somewhat unfair competition. Sadly, it seems unlikely we will see many international FS competitions this year.
Pinkosek I was thinking that it would not be smaller nations, but larger ones. Germany, France, etc. Ones which have a low risk for holding such events.
Who else has had 6 margaritas tonight? But seriously (I really have had 7) I had a dream of men finally doing quint jumps last night and I was spinning parallel on the floor in and endless world of ice. Yeah, don't question it. And at the grand age of 45 I look at my skates and wonder if more than 3 years will pass again with them ever being on my feet.
Hanyu had an interview a while ago when he said that he felt he maxed out on his PCS and he needs to focus on his technical scores to compete in this quad era. This season was really between Hanyu and Nathan, so who will benefit more from this scoring change? To a casual fan, the scoring change seems to make it harder to win just by the technical content.
Well truth is, Hanyu’s skating skills are so so much better than Nathan Chen’s but it is not truly reflected on the scoresheet. Whatever the judges want they get it. Whatever.
q (landing exactly on the quarter, bases value the same, GOE decreases by 1), < (greater than 1/4 to 1/2, 25% base value reduction, GOE reduction -2 to -3),
That's because it's "caret," which isn't even the mark they use to downgrade things. That's just a less than sign. A caret is essentially an upside down "V."
K...so hip "structure" can often preclude one from jumping off the correct edge on a lutz ergo, the lutz and the flip should have the same difficulty score in an effort to be "Body Neutral".....hmmmm...yeah...that's the ticket...lmao....wait, so what does the Czarina (EM) do?.. she adds more lutz...omG...gotta luv her..that kid makes me smile.RRH
Don't understand 'carrot', 'double carrot' & 'Q' references. Guessing that Q refers to quarteras in on ice rotations, but the carrots? Anyone who knows answers pls advise, & thanks in advance.
@@susmus5034 but isnt half prerotation acceptable? Why r they marking it as q now ? Even master technicians like yuzu and nathan jump with 1/4 acceptable prerotation ..
@@mooony94 The amount of prerotation depends on the jump. Toe-loop and Salchow are jumps where the skater's hip is open to the rotation at take off, so a bit prerotation is acceptable. In case of Loop, Lutz or Flip the hip is closed to rotation, but since Loop is an edge jump, some prerotation is acceptable for Loop too. Flip is not counter-rotated so in that case a bit more prerotation is also acceptable. In the case of Lutz, prerotation is not acceptable at all. That's why it is so hard to do. If prerotation goes over 180 degress, it is not acceptable at all at any jump (not even Salchow or Loop). They are making q again because they don't want that a jump that misses exactly 1/4 rotation will get a
We saw some dubious scoring last season (across all disciplines!) and we’ll surely see it again next season, and we’ll cry about it (otherwise, what would be the point of twitter?). You want a sport that is “judged” objectively - go watch marathon running! The change in ISU point system has 0 theoretical impact, other than extra publicity, which in itself is positive for ISU, milking all that juicy fandom drama (ratings, people!) My only fear is that the changes in points (i.e. devaluation of proper technique/execution of certain jumps) added to the nebulous “q” will exacerbate the worst in so-called “subjective calls”, but we will have to wait and see. I am especially curious to see how GOEs and PCSs will evolve if skaters start skating cleaner programmes with chosen “more comfortable” jumps for them… Some GOEs awarded in 2019 were arguably unjustifiable following ISU’s own rulebook, but under new rules - not so much the case.
OH PLEASE of course it's to bring Hanyu back into play with Nathan!! Get real! The only reason to do it is because Nathan pops off high-value Lutz and Flip jumps as a matter of course while Hanyu is very erratic with those for jumps. He lands the Sal and Loop no problem. So if you downgrade the harder jumps and bring up the less difficult jumps, voila, Hanyu is competitive again. Nonsense. Jumps aren't all equal. That's life. Nathan is kicking the crap out of everyone. Bringing down the difficult jumps doesn't change that fact.
Nathan will just bring back his 4lo, which I think he was going to at worlds anyway. He's already talking about it. And Yuzu's problem still isn't really BV, but the fact that he's not consistent. Even in his best performances, like 2017 worlds, he had a disaster SP. He lost worlds twice to Javi after being ahead in the SP too. You just can't do that against Nathan. Giving his loop an extra .5 isn't going to magically fix anything.
Honestly, Yuzu's toe quads have not looked steady. I wonder if it's that ankle of his. Sal, loop, and of course, Axel, excellent but at 4CC that ankle looked like it caved under the toe jumps.
4Lo deserves high base value due to its difficulty. There is a reason why it was the last landed quad and had the least number of people performing it. It is an edge jump for heaven’s sake. No way to propel into the air with the help of fricking toe pick. Nathan has said that 4Lo is harder than quad toe jumps. Why dont you ask Nathan Chen why he has not done 4Lo for 3 seasons?
Is there a protractor? Lol....🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Honestly I still can't visually tell difference in those jumps. It's only obvious to me when a jump is landed clean or ends up an ugly fall. I'm not a trained figure skater and that may be why.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 90 | คู่เอก "ก้องไกล vs แอนตาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VugIvOstzRI/mqdefault.jpg)
After a rough week
some TSL tea
is all I need.
YES, some brightness in otherwise dismal times. Thank you!
The rule change for pre-rotation is one thing. Whether judges can ACCURATELY recognize it and assess it would be another thing. There have been too many incompetent judges who couldn't even see wrong edges and URs. I strongly believe that ISU should 1. Bring in multiple cameras and evaluate the jumps from all angles; 2. all judges should take a course, a training, and an exam all over again to be better judges; 3. make them reveal the reasoning for how they determined each GOE.
Elizabet Tursynbaeva has been recuperating from injury and basically sat out this past season. Given that she's 20, it's possible she's considering retirement. At the same time, she has a free ticket to the Olympics with Kazakhstan in 2022, so perhaps she's just taking the time to make sure she's fully recovered before making one last run at glory. (Her Danse Macabre program intended for last season showed a lot of promise; hopefully, she uses it this season if she returns.) However it unfolds, she deserves credit for pulling off 4CC and Worlds silvers past her 18th birthday.
I hope she really takes her time with recovery. Especially when you consider how tough are trainings with Eteri, as we got a bit of news about that from Evgenia, it's a miracle she was able to pull that 4S at the end of the season, while possibly still being in pain/injured
@@hannibaljustincase9985 Yeah, I really like Lilbet. I hope she takes the time to recover and I hope we haven't seen the last of her. She seems like a sweet, smart, and well-rounded girl, too. Here's a cute IG post she did for Eteri on her birthday earlier this year...instagram.com/p/B88bRyVJXiw. She, Yulia, and Zhenya were all skating together with Eteri when they were babies! I wonder if there are any photos of the three of them together from those days?
Her style is like is a third-rate version of the other Eteri girls. It is all the same garbage.
@@TheSkatingLesson that is just plain rude. I mean i like watching your videos bec. most of the time you really make some good points. And I also appreciate some of your constructive criticism. But calling underage and hardworking girls "garbage", is crossing the line, isnt? (yes i know lilibet is 20y.o)
Ezia Auditore the style of their programs is the garbage, not the girls. Dani G slaps them together with minimal effort or imagination. Have you ever noticed they all have a formula?
Alexandra Trusova changes coaches:
Everyone:
Tarasova:
Jill: Can my Kendall have a solo now?
😂😂
Who are Jill and Kendall?
Lol! Lol! Lol!
My Sunday tradition for the last 2 years has been to bake bread and watch TSL, I look forward to it all week. I'm so glad that you're still posting so much content during these strange quaretimes, it makes quarantine while living alone much more tolerable!
That is awesome!
Thanks for being a part of my pandemic sanity TSL!
Our pleasure!
Thanks for the videos guys during quarantine it feels good to hear some things about figure skating❤️
Here is the thing : Honestly, how else would these girls ( Sasha / Anna - and, yes, I know Anna’s pre-rotation has a more) complete these difficult jumps without some level of pre-rotation? I think it unfair to compare women’s jumps to men ( a lot of videos on TH-cam do this). Also, I find it off-putting when people compare a “good” triple lutz,to (a pre-rotates) quad lutz. That it simply an illogical comparison. Also, not all people jump the same way. Sure, maybe a “perfect” (aesthetically pleasing ) triple axel goes up before pulling in the arms. But is that a realistic expectation ? I think not, as we are all different. Anyways, I love you guys !!
@@amyl6426 I know what you mean as everybody's body is different and it does sometimes come down to preferenced technique (to suit each individual) rather than everybodys jumps to 'feel' the same.
@@amyl6426 Because why should someone get 5.9 points for a 3Lz with 2.8 revolutions and someone else get 11.5 points for a "4Lz" with 3.4 revolutions
Ben Bailey Agreed. If girls can’t do a proper quad, why reward them with big scores and victories for their cheated techniques? 3.4 revolutions can be counted as quads just because they’re woman? This is not gender equality.
When you upload videos, it's always night here in Spain and I sleep so well after listening to you talking about our sport 🥰
Love that!
Hearing from you about skating *and* quarantining is the perfect ending for the weekend. You two are an essential part of my Quarantine Survival Plan!
I must say, both of you look soo beautiful especially today!
Thank you so much 😀
"is there a protractor??" captures the spirit of these changes perfectly.
honestly as someone who is NOT a figure skater, im a swimmer. I think I only remember a couple rules changing. the full body swim suit, and something to do with the backstroke ending and you having to be above the water. [which i always was and am] and it confuses me how they change the rules so often!
It's funny how people are saying the change in base values is to make Yuzuru competitive with Nathan. For both Yuzuru and Nathan, the change in the base values of the quads they can jump is ±0. Remember Yuzuru didn't jump the 4Lo at 4CC.
And everyone knows that it's not the rules that are causing problems it's their implementation. Every judge is given the same stopwatch but they can operate it at their own timing however they like for different skaters. Intentionally or unintentionally they can start it early or stop it early and never be punished for it.
I agree. Nathan has the 4F but isn’t currently jumping the 4Lo; Yuzuru has the 4Lo but isn’t jumping the 4F. They both have a 4Lz, so I don’t think it’ll impact their rivalry much at all. I doubt that even the ISU is petty enough to change the rules for one athlete. Tbh I wish they hadn’t changed the rules at all; this is bound to just make things more confusing
@@allaboutyuzu But Nathan has, arguably, a more consistent 4Lz.
@@allaboutyuzu They already changed the quad rules mainly for Nathan before. I mean who else did they change the repeating quad rules (and downgrading the points of quads) if not for Nathan? He was doing 6 quads and they could see where it was going. They also changed the backloading programs rules mainly because of Alina (or Eteri's camp as a whole). Don't underestimate how petty the ISU can be.
Melissa What’s wrong with ISU changing rules for repeating quads and backloading programs? I definitely applauded ISU. Those jumping beans, male or female, are trashing figure skating.
@@yolandaguo7153 So they are jumping beans because your fav can't do the jumps? Backloading programs wasn't great I suppose, but I'm simply refuting that they would never change rules to target one skater. They have in the past. If Sasha was successful this season I suspect they would have done something to nerf her too
This is so precious 😍 and Dave - all these Polish references recently can’t go unnoticed 😆👏
Nice to see you both.. Just what I needed tonight.
Hope you enjoyed it!
as someone doing 3Lz and 3F with Russian technique, I can tell you that Lutz is easier for me than flip, and if you look at the russian girls it is the same for them too, so for me, this explains the base value change
Thank you for these videos! I love Rafael honestly, fantastic coach but even more fantastic personality 🤣🤣🤣
The flip being the same value as the lutz was definitely weird to see. But, one possible theory explaining the change... I’ve heard that for some people, the anatomy of their hips can drastically impact their ability to properly go off an inside edge vs. outside edge on jumps. Perhaps this is to account for that and to be a more body-neutral way of scoring these jumps. This is all just my theory and speculation, though.
The fact is, the new rules are as always making judging harder instead of easier.
Agree!!!
People are really thinking that 0.5 base value will make a difference between Yuzuru and Nathan? The main differentiator between them will be who lands the jumps on the day, and unfortunately Yuzuru hasn't been able to do that against Nathan.
Ever thought why yuzu is not able to perform his best against nathan ? Coz otherwise yuzu has no problems breaking world records his issue arises whenever he has to face nathan. That's bcoz hes nervous, why? Bcoz he knows his arsenal is lacking. Now thanks to this new hanyu rule he will gain confidence as his tech content is no longer inferior to Nathan's, and that's my dear who this rule will benefit him.
@@mooony94 mate, the change is miniscule. Yuzuru lost by 40 points last time. Confidence isn't the problem. He has to have the stamina to do 5 or 6 quads in a program
@@nicholasliu5788 Yeah and he has asthma which is why is often inconsistant in the longer free
@@mooony94 Yuzuru can easily make up for the difference in BV of 4F and 4Lo by GOEs (if rewarded correctly) and by placing quad combinations and 3As in the 2nd half of his free. It's more about being able to skate clean when it's necessary.
Last season the judges damaged his confidence significantly starting with the phantom UR calls at ACI. I think the judging last season really messed with his mentality because he is a skater that works every day to earn +5 GOEs and has always taken judges' scores very seriously.
@@benbailey159bb his sp isnt consistent either infact he does the biggest errors in his sp this happened both times he had to face nathan... its nerves ...
Imho...you guys..please keep up the Great work. Thanks, coach Hoot
Love both of you. Thanks for your insights. 💜
Another very informative discussion again. Thank you for sharing this. I've been very out of date.
Glad it was helpful!
Dave, I also work in health insurance. Hope you are surviving ok during this crazy time. As always, appreciate the videos and the ability to focus on something more entertaining. Thanks for everything.
You too!!
I love how Debbie is picking up on Victor's subtle shade
YAS!
I disagree about bringing down Lz BV. I personally don't know if Lutz jump is harder compared to flip jump. Some say that the counter rotation makes it harder but some said that it's the same as flip , it's just some skaters are natural lutz jumper. I personally love Lz jump when it's done right (like Rika's or Liza's lutz). I think it is a mistake changing the BV.
4Lo now has same BV as 4Lz and 4F whereas 3Lo does not. Maybe ISU reviewed past season jump trends? 4Lo was indeed the rarest. I heard from 1 commentator that 4Lo is hard because it's so much more difficult to launch yourself high enough from Lo entry to rotate 4x. Also some say that Lo jump could damage your spine long term. But one thing for sure, no one could have predicted that ISU released new guidelines in the middle of a lockdown.
I am curious though how will judges use full blade rules to penalize the skaters.
These new rules remind me of when I read that D+B+B on beam now gets .2 connection value. Deciphering a new code of points is always maddening!
One more thing to my previous point, on judges' ability to call 1/4 degree under rotations: unless ISU is preparing a big surprise with matrix style, AI-enabled, computer vision assisted judging - that deserves its own 'lol face' meme!
Thats definitely the worst part. Under rotations should be clearly more than a quarter turn, decided definetively by the caller.
I love Raf and the time you spent on his interview... but the best part of this video is the last 2 minutes! Thank you Dave and Jonathan; I don't know if you read comments this late, but I hope so. Comparing these micro-adjustments to measuring violin angles and Jonathan's comparison to judging singing by relying on missing a quarter rest rather than cultivating the ability to hear and appreciate the timbre, the gorgeous interpretation, is it beautiful -- all great. Many figure skating fans all over the world agree with you two here! However, I do think the ISU, by making these changes, are trying to reward what they want to see. i.e. the changes in pairs in 2018 have meant that quality is rewarded over risk and danger. I like the "Q," because it means that skaters who only UR a little can get full value for the jump and only lose some GOE points.
If you think about it, making flip and lutz the same helps Kostornaia a lot because her second half bonus is the same as Scherbakkova (and Trusova in the short). Making the Quads the same helps Yuzuru.
Ah yes you say this.
Helps Yuzuru? Well. 4Lo has always been harder than 4Lz, it should have been rewarded heavier. :3
"Making the Quads the same helps Yuzuru." Yes, because he couldn't remain competitive otherwise. Another disgusting dumbing down of the COP to unfairly advantage certain skaters and disadvantage others by the ISU. Then again, what else would you expect from an organization run by European socialists who punish achievement in an attempt to "level the playing field"?
lcowles Well, i remember people complaining that increasing the GOE range from -5 to +5 would help Yuzuru. Now Nathan is the one getting +4 and +5 across the board. Even when Yuzuru had better jumps especially 3A, you dont see +5 across the board. So who ended up benefiting more from the rule change? Nathan Chen. Nathan never get 4-5 for his transitions and skating skill, it is always almost the same as Hanyu’s. Who is benefiting from the dumbing down of COP?
i wonder will some people still say 4loop is harder & deserves higher points when nathan & other top 10 skaters execute the jump in competition 🤔
thanks for keeping us entertained in this quarantine ☺️
Our pleasure!
Kaetlyn Osmond would be the Olympic champion with the new rules against pre-rotation..although I already think of her as the best of that night
No ,with two feet landing ,after performing her lutz ( there is a video of her Olympics Lp) Kaetlyn had no chance to win gold. Olympics medals were well deserved , evyrthing was fair.
Backloading of jumps was the difference in the points
@@margmccloy347 ,true ,and all Alina's jumps (in the second half of program ) were absolutelly CLEAN.
Kaetlyn, like Evgenia and Alina, also had half turn pre-rotation on toe jumps. Even 4th place Satoko and 5th place Kaori have this as well. All the ladies use this technique, except veeeery few including Kostner, Tuktamysheva, Rika, Sotskova, and Tsurskaya. If the pre-rotation rule was in place in 2018, you would probably see Tuktamysheva and Tsurskaya on the Olympic team. And if they all skated clean, probably Tsurskaya would be Olympic champion as she has correct edges and the biggest jumps (I believe her 3Lz was calculated to be even bigger than Trusova's 4T). Tuktamysheva has a 3A but she would get called on her 3F edge and she didn't have a 3S so her layout would be limited and BV wouldn't be as high. Rika wasn't old enough, Sotskova did not perform well, and Kostner was inconsistent.
@@Helen-me1vn ,true ,but figure skating doesn't include just one jump (lutz) ,although Tsurskaya had the most correct lutz technique ,U'right ! Backloading program was favored than by the ISU as well as a multitude of transitions (Zhenya& Alina's programs were full of transitions ,also ). Anyway ,backloading -yes or no -i enjoyed and still enjoy watching Zhenya's both Olympics programs ,especially "Karenina" .
Great video as always!!! Thank you for keeping us all entertained right now
Okay, your knowledge of the structure, culture and nuances of Russian sports is staggering. And entertaining. Have a great week! Hope you can walk soon! Good luck with those sit spins
Thank you very much!
Monday morning UK time and it’s This and That ❤️⛸ Thank you!
I watched the ISU Worlds 2017 mens comp today and then watched the TSL recap with Dave, J, and a woman. I was frankly a bit put off by the discussion of Yuzuru Hanyu's win and costumes. I usually enjoy the tea you guys bring, especially the Russian skating drama this season, but I appreciate these talks when they don't seem spiteful. (Newer listener from 2019)
I am here for Daves’ mindfulness!!! 🙌🙌
Thank you!
*Correction Made.
In regards to Flip/Lutz, why not reward them differently only if they can jump both? Why not reward them X points for the first jump (Flip or Lutz) and reward them X + Y points on the other? For example, if skater attempts: Lutz and then Flip, reward X points for Lutz* and X+Y points for Flip* (and vise versa). If there is an edge error, they can deduct points. In this way, the Lip jumper would not get advantage over Flutz jumper. I felt unfair that some skaters just naturally prefer Lutz and got higher points than Flip although they cannot jump Flip properly.
PS Im back bc I'm bored.
this is exactly what raf & nathan said in interview with hersh. they said, bonus should be given if skater executes all three quads (lutz, flip & loop)
Finallly 🥰😻😻😻nice to see you again guys and hear something about figure skating😘😘
More to come!
I agree quad flip (only quad) should have the same base mark as quad loop just because the quad loop has too much torque, it's very hard to check out of rotation during landing. However, quad lutz, if done right (taking off on the true outside edge without switching to the inside at any moment before takeoff), is way harder than both 4F and 4Lp and should have more base mark. That said, if all the flutzes are not penalized correctly. This discussion is moot.
Totaly agree
To the point and informational video! great job :)
Try that sit spin exercise on a wobble board. It helped so much with my stability and now I can get super low and maintain my speed and centering.
Thanks for the tip!
"..is there a protractor." 😂😂😂😂😂
More, please 😂💖
In a russian article they calculated top 5 Russian women's scores and how many points they lost. Medevea lost the least points by far. Hanyu benefits. Orser wrote the rules.
More like the ISU needs to keep Hanyu in the game to keep the Japanese TV money and sponsors flowing.
I don't know how Fanyus can keep saying the ISU wants Hanyu to retire/are pushing Nathan when they try to nerf Nathan every other season. If anything they want an even rivalry where either one could win for ratings and money, and they aren't really getting one right now. Not that it'll matter in the end since Nathan will probably still win.
@@TheSkatingLesson I don't think the new base values benefit Hanyu that much since he finally brought back the 4Lz last year, and the difference between 4Lo and 4F was not that big. And if the ISU were really willing to support Hanyu, they could have increased the value of the 4A. (Well maybe they want him to stay in but not win.)
@@akblades6338
In your head, Hanyu can jump 4A and 4F and has reliable 4Lz?
@@origamis9477 I think his 4Lz is as reliable as his 4Lo now. I don't think he will do 4F. I'm sure he will do 4A because he said he will. If he ever gives up on it, that will be the time he retires.
the "q" thing is ridicules its like a toy in the judges hands.
jumps are not clearly under but wants to decrease the GOE so "q"
jumps are under rotated but don't want to decrease its base value so "q"
You guys are hilarious 🤣 I love it! Cheers from NY!
Yay! Thank you!
Lol I also think Yana wrote it for Sasha, and the way Russians hate it on hot Sergey... like people it's a job of course he will go for the money 🙃
Also is ridiculous how some people hate on Adelya because she reminds them of Medvedeva like wtf, I can understand the love but the hate? She's like 12
Do you understand what you write? Messy
@@lanhuong-xo7ec yes, perfectly, among other 12 people...
@@JaneRosee Who is Yana, Adelya? Who is perfect? And 12 people? You are saying the complete opposite, farce
@@lanhuong-xo7ec ok I can see that you don't understand English well, Yana (Plushenko's wife) and Adelya (skater) are mentioned in the video, and if you're familiar with all the russian drama you will understand better...
I said 12 people because they understood the coment and like it
@@JaneRosee Im not a Russian. I don't know who wrote in place of Trusova 15 years old, my parents or managers. Ah Adelya Petrosya, that's how Eteribots hate Mevedeva, not the Russians
"may or may be a lesson in gaslighting"
Well ain't that a fact lol. It would be upsetting if it wasn't so hilarious. Team Tut really has her claws in the ISU doesn't she?
Why would Tut want to reduce the BV of a 4Lz/3Lz if her skaters can compete with a flat or inside edge and still get full points? Especially since not all skaters can do that? (See Rika for the first half of the season). To me this scoring change is aimed at men. Also, why would Tut advocate for more strict rules against prerotation and full blade assistance? Anna and the younger girls in her group really struggle there. URs getting marked if they’re iffy at a quarter? Would hurt Aliona and Anna, who both have borderline 3A and quads.
I thought the rule changes were very anti-Shcherbakova with the full blade assist and as she was jumping 4 Lutzes in her free last season. ISU maybe wants to promote more diverse jumping repertoire? Still doesn't make sense to me though. And bringing down the value of the lutz is just infuriating, they've changed the sport all the way down to the beginner skaters without viable explanation. When I watch gymnastics I don't have any idea how those scores are calculated as I only watch during the Olympic season..I think figure skating is there for the casual viewers and then some.
Scherbakova had 4 Flutz anyway.
She can just switch all the lutzes to flips in her programs. But I’m not sure if the ISU will be strict on her jumps overall though.
@@triplea_qgb1963 They really ought to, sometimes some of her jumps almost have a full revolution on the ice before take-off
jj she’s Eteri’s favourite. I don’t see it ever getting called.
I’m getting hooked on this soap opera. I’m really liking Victors zoom lessons too!
They are great! Have you been in the same classes as me?
TheSkatingLesson yes I have been to the same ones! Love them!
There’s a lot of younger Russian and Japanese men attempting 4Lo. Perhaps the ISU also wants to encourage more skaters to do 4Lo?
Being an old (42) I absolutely hate how the judging is evolving. I long for the days when you could be drawn into a program as a performance and it was judged on its totality. I understood the need for IJS, and didn't mind it that much, but all this minutiae judging is really too much.
100% agree
100%, yes.
Loved you both x
34 comments after one hour upload = we ❤️ TSL!! 🥰
You're the best!
JOHN MULANEY IS THE BESTT!!!!!!! Thas right, Beyer has excellent comedic taste if I do say so myself.
The new ISU rule changes are insane. Were they created by someone with OCD?
Jonothan's comments are always so interesting
Pouring one out for Elizabet Tursynbayeva. I just love everything Kazakhstan (as long as it’s not Borat related, hate that movie) and I have NO idea why! I think it’s because the flag is such a pretty color...¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 🇰🇿
The half dozen skaters that I skate with find a proper lutz harder than the flip. Don't understand why the ISU is making them the same value. Is it to buoy the Eteri girls over Elizaveta's beautiful outside edge? And maybe it reduces the point score for the top Japanese women who have third lutz edges? I can't figure it out.
But thanks for the commentary. Nice to hear about skating at least as a replacement for actually being allowed to skate
Interestingly enough, Elizaveta is one of the skaters who has a harder time with flip than lutz. She has a textbook lutz but an lip (incorrect edge flip).
@@Helen-me1vn that's bcoz it's quite rare for skaters to be good at BOTH flip and lutz, good lutzers usually have a lip and good flippers usually struggle with outside edge. Still a lutz is more difficult whether in triples or quads, hate isu for killing the gorgeous lutz.
@@mooony94 It depends on the skater, though. For example, the most difficult jump for Alina is the salchow and scoring wise it's the second lowest. Some skaters just have a natural affinity for certain jumps over others
@@Helen-me1vn I thought alina's worst jump is lutz ?? Not a surprise as she is a good flipper
It is time to bring back the Michelle Kwan Snow Globe. It sparks joy.
Lastly, hmmm, minimal curve into a late deep curve, makes a Lotta sense
Hi guys! I see a very high value of the quad to separate the rock stars from the masses. High scores will be used as a line of demarcation or for personal incentives for the hard work. The danger is for some skaters to not admit to physical limitations.
Where would l find this interview from Raf and the lady who interviewed him( her eteri comments)?
@lawomann thank you so very much.
Hey Dave , I was watching one of your vids and it’s been getting me through the quarantine lol. I remember you talking about “ghee” oil in one of the vids .... and it’s basically clarified butter .... so like a purer form of butter. It’s healthier.
Thank you!
No I agree, a triple loop is easier than triple flip/lutz, but the quad loop is DEFINITELY ON PAR with quad flip and lutz. Look how easy quad flip and lutzes are for so many people who can't even jump triple axels!
That's bcoz why r cheating it !!!
Getting me through a post-panic attack at work right now.
John Mulaney IS a postmenopausal woman, god bless his soul.
I hope Tursynbaeva is okay 🥺
On a different note, what is going on with the FFS? Is Didier coming back?
Didn't Tatiana Navka's husband test positive for COVID19 this week?
she did too. He was hospitalized.
This new rules of the ISU is so confusing and there are ridiculous they should go back to make new rules . I have a question for you guys if you can make the ISU rules what would they be?
I would throw them out!
I totally agree with him
About Elena Vaiceknovskaya. Again, when she made those "true" comments she was workng for fully government owned agency. That meand she traveled to all the sporting events on government money. That is why it was ugly when she concentrated her energy on one succesful coach in Russia. When you guys travel to competitions you have to weight it against if it's too expensive or not, she didn;t have to. That's why you can say watever the hell you want and she was hated by many. Now, being in the market herself I find she can say watever she wants.
Pretty funny that you guys mention hockey in Palm Springs. The NHL's newest team, in Seattle, which is joining the league in 2021, announced this past fall that their minor league team is going to play out of a soon-to-be built $250mm arena in downtown Palm Springs. Could explain why Frank Carroll's rink is closing, i.e. in anticipation of the forthcoming competition? In any case, I don't know about you guys, but I think this arena (and Palm Springs in general) could be perfect for a Skate America in the next few years. I love Vegas, but the Orleans Arena is far from just about everything. Downtown Palm Springs would be a bit more convenient and fun, especially with a newly built arena.
I think you have such a fascinating view on the world...
I was wondering why the triple lutz, flip, and loop were not changed as well. I was laughing in my head because I remember the day all the ladies were doing triple lutz double toe in the short program, and I have wondered how many skaters would have rather have done triple flip double toe. I also wonder with what they are doing with the quads now, should the salchow and toe be the same too value too? One is an edge jump and the other is a toe jump but they are both considered the easiest jumps to do. It leaves so many questions in my mind. Like to know what people think.
Omg...off ice jumps in front of tv....I did that for YEARS since I was little! I could do a clean single axel-jump, and I could do a double toe and also double 'looks-like a flip-but-not-a-flip'. My lutz never got off the ground. I did it so much for so long(yes even well into my thirties..I sometimes cannot sit still) that my right hip has gone stiff and the fork in my foot hardly bends. Hurts when I go speedskating because I'm so assymetrical in flexibility.
Thinking about how I used to run in hot sand for off ice gives me ptsd
Jonathan, I know you're dying and totally understand how you're feeling.
Can't find the Tom Zakrecic 88 Nationals video :(
Did you see the Dick Button challenge? He windmills his arms. He says this will help the skaters with arm flailing, which is apparently the 'in' thing.
I did! lol
As a lawyer who redlines contracts all the time for no reason except to show the other side we are serious I am personally offended by this conversation 😂
HAHAHAHA
They made lutz and flip equal to have more rivalry in ladies. Many more girls are stable with flip and less stable with lutz. The same goes to q. Banning quads and raising age in ladies would be a wiser step. No rivalry is possible as long as quadsters are around, which is upsetting. Would love to have more competition taking place. This season was boring.
do you have the Raf interview link.
Rule changes are not bringing new interest in for USFSA. As the judging gets more precise and nit-picky, the interest by the general public is going to wane. General understanding of figure skating is no longer common knowledge in the US.
I think it is a world wide issue.
I predict that if they go forward with the season they will try to arrange GP locations that are in nations where there is a small case load or where it has been resolved. Perhaps athletes will be expected to arrive early and train in isolation at local rinks for a week or two before competing to ensure that everyone is healthy. Then remove audiences. The MLB is hosting games without audiences but only in Arizona. So I assume this will be the same.
The thing is, Slovakia for example is one such country with low infection rate and well handled situation - they just cancelled both Nepela challenger and JGP Kosice - probably because they want to keep doing well with the pandemic. This might happen with other locations. From point of view of the hosting country, it might just be too much of a risk. Then there is an issue of athletes being unable to train on ice or to get through the boarders at all - in Moscow you cannot even leave your house currently and this situation will fluctuate for different areas creating somewhat unfair competition. Sadly, it seems unlikely we will see many international FS competitions this year.
Pinkosek I was thinking that it would not be smaller nations, but larger ones. Germany, France, etc. Ones which have a low risk for holding such events.
@@snowangel7980 we can hope :)
Also for the thing about Zoom being down at 2:55
The UK Parliament couldnt have its meeting properly because of Zoom being down 🤣🤣
i never thought the underrotations might have something to do with flexibility. interesting insight
Who else has had 6 margaritas tonight? But seriously (I really have had 7) I had a dream of men finally doing quint jumps last night and I was spinning parallel on the floor in and endless world of ice. Yeah, don't question it. And at the grand age of 45 I look at my skates and wonder if more than 3 years will pass again with them ever being on my feet.
Excuse me, did you people take down a post I wrote?...lol
Okay what have you two done? A bit of make up? Guy-liner? Whatever it is; It's WERKING.
I am working out a lot and drinking a lot of water.
Hanyu had an interview a while ago when he said that he felt he maxed out on his PCS and he needs to focus on his technical scores to compete in this quad era. This season was really between Hanyu and Nathan, so who will benefit more from this scoring change? To a casual fan, the scoring change seems to make it harder to win just by the technical content.
Well truth is, Hanyu’s skating skills are so so much better than Nathan Chen’s but it is not truly reflected on the scoresheet. Whatever the judges want they get it. Whatever.
Can anyone post a link to the Rafael Arutyunyan article, translated? TY
Dennis Johnson it's on the website FSGossips
Can you explain Q & carrot? Seemed like you were talking about under rotation.
q (landing exactly on the quarter, bases value the same, GOE decreases by 1), < (greater than 1/4 to 1/2, 25% base value reduction, GOE reduction -2 to -3),
@Elizabeth Henningsen Thank you. I had never heard of this before. I appreciate it.
That's because it's "caret," which isn't even the mark they use to downgrade things. That's just a less than sign. A caret is essentially an upside down "V."
K...so hip "structure" can often preclude one from jumping off the correct edge on a lutz ergo, the lutz and the flip should have the same difficulty score in an effort to be "Body Neutral".....hmmmm...yeah...that's the ticket...lmao....wait, so what does the Czarina (EM) do?.. she adds more lutz...omG...gotta luv her..that kid makes me smile.RRH
Don't understand 'carrot', 'double carrot' & 'Q' references. Guessing that Q refers to quarteras in on ice rotations, but the carrots? Anyone who knows answers pls advise, & thanks in advance.
q means on the quarter, a jump that misses 1/4 rotation, carrot is underrotation
Thank you!! All is explained & I now understand.
@@susmus5034 but isnt half prerotation acceptable? Why r they marking it as q now ? Even master technicians like yuzu and nathan jump with 1/4 acceptable prerotation ..
@@mooony94 The amount of prerotation depends on the jump. Toe-loop and Salchow are jumps where the skater's hip is open to the rotation at take off, so a bit prerotation is acceptable. In case of Loop, Lutz or Flip the hip is closed to rotation, but since Loop is an edge jump, some prerotation is acceptable for Loop too. Flip is not counter-rotated so in that case a bit more prerotation is also acceptable. In the case of Lutz, prerotation is not acceptable at all. That's why it is so hard to do.
If prerotation goes over 180 degress, it is not acceptable at all at any jump (not even Salchow or Loop).
They are making q again because they don't want that a jump that misses exactly 1/4 rotation will get a
We saw some dubious scoring last season (across all disciplines!) and we’ll surely see it again next season, and we’ll cry about it (otherwise, what would be the point of twitter?). You want a sport that is “judged” objectively - go watch marathon running!
The change in ISU point system has 0 theoretical impact, other than extra publicity, which in itself is positive for ISU, milking all that juicy fandom drama (ratings, people!)
My only fear is that the changes in points (i.e. devaluation of proper technique/execution of certain jumps) added to the nebulous “q” will exacerbate the worst in so-called “subjective calls”, but we will have to wait and see. I am especially curious to see how GOEs and PCSs will evolve if skaters start skating cleaner programmes with chosen “more comfortable” jumps for them… Some GOEs awarded in 2019 were arguably unjustifiable following ISU’s own rulebook, but under new rules - not so much the case.
you should tutor me i need your honesty and i’m failing pre calc
OH PLEASE of course it's to bring Hanyu back into play with Nathan!! Get real! The only reason to do it is because Nathan pops off high-value Lutz and Flip jumps as a matter of course while Hanyu is very erratic with those for jumps. He lands the Sal and Loop no problem. So if you downgrade the harder jumps and bring up the less difficult jumps, voila, Hanyu is competitive again. Nonsense. Jumps aren't all equal. That's life.
Nathan is kicking the crap out of everyone. Bringing down the difficult jumps doesn't change that fact.
Exactly like what r they gonna do if nathan brings back 4lo and does a 6 quads program ?? R they gonna make 4s and 4t same bv as 4lz and co ? Lol
Nathan will take this as a challenge and run with it. 6 quads easy this year. It's like, "Fine. You want to play - hold my beer."
Nathan will just bring back his 4lo, which I think he was going to at worlds anyway. He's already talking about it. And Yuzu's problem still isn't really BV, but the fact that he's not consistent. Even in his best performances, like 2017 worlds, he had a disaster SP. He lost worlds twice to Javi after being ahead in the SP too. You just can't do that against Nathan. Giving his loop an extra .5 isn't going to magically fix anything.
Honestly, Yuzu's toe quads have not looked steady. I wonder if it's that ankle of his. Sal, loop, and of course, Axel, excellent but at 4CC that ankle looked like it caved under the toe jumps.
4Lo deserves high base value due to its difficulty. There is a reason why it was the last landed quad and had the least number of people performing it. It is an edge jump for heaven’s sake. No way to propel into the air with the help of fricking toe pick.
Nathan has said that 4Lo is harder than quad toe jumps. Why dont you ask Nathan Chen why he has not done 4Lo for 3 seasons?
i love seeing you in these classes dave lease. please get alexa to teach us something or hook me up.
Is there a protractor? Lol....🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Honestly I still can't visually tell difference in those jumps. It's only obvious to me when a jump is landed clean or ends up an ugly fall. I'm not a trained figure skater and that may be why.