Not a bad thing if you ask me. Both bring an understanding to human nature. a city builder with lessons that can help you understand something things in todays world other than just produce more food n lecky nd a 3rd recourse
In short: Congratulations, you are no longer a mayor. You are a politician. In a way, it thematically makes sense. The city mayor has moved up, and become less concerned about individual lives than political bodies. People become faceless numbers. It's grim, it's dark, and it's what happens.
They didn't have to choose a theme that forces them to change the game. They could pick a theme that justifies keeping the gameplay the same! They weren't forced to pick this specific theme!
This kind of scenario should be in Frostpunk 3. I mean, the lore suggests that we survived 30yrs after the frost. In the first game, you can save up to ±690 people. So it's only logical to have approximately only 1500 people survive in harsh environment for 30yrs period. But in Frostpunk 2, you have 8000 people (like, what? are these people rabbits?) and the Lore-breaking is the tech, all that extraction machine, actual train in a rail? All these are developed in 30yrs? When FP1 scenario 'On the Edge' happened, that was what I thought would be FP2. A thriving society in the midst of cold, where they must find solution to limited resources, not engaging in a full blown politics.
The devs made a choice to increase the scope of the city which is a good decision for people that want more complexity and macro management. But they inadvertently turned it into Sim City but with snow. Eventually it's a matter of taste. Some people may like macro city builders, other prefer micro ones. They both offer something interesting. However i prefer the more micro city builders because i love watching the little guys go about their business. In FP1 you would get a lot more attached to the people because you could actually see them mulling about. People walking through the snow, people holding torches at night, giant steam robots slowly moving around, the tough decisions you had to make and even the scout teams you sent out made the game feel more alive and more personal. In the second one you just watch a bunch of charts, order some districts to be built and the machines just do it automatically... You have to sit in parliament and work the factions, do the politics and eventually the people are just some numbers, another resource to manage. FP2 gained complexity but lost that personal human touch. Definitely not for me...
Or forcing the kids to work & not get trained as techs or medics. I did that once & always sent them to school in later games. It tested OUR humanity 😅
@@big.pizzleyea, you must pass the Child Shelter first, which seems useless in a hindsight. Ultimately, Child Apprentice can really boost your chosen focus. In my later playthrough, I build like 5 Child Shelter & passed the medic appretice law, and it really solves the sickness problem. People entering Infirmary as if it is a drive-thru.
In Frostpunk, every death, drop in hope and rise in discontent added tension. You had to keep your stocks of resources and building temperatures high in order for the city to survive. The City Must Survive.
Yeah I don't even need to monitor heat anymore, just get coal / oil, that's it. No more worrying about workers getting cold and dying at the factory. Now 100's of people just die at once who knows where.
Yeah truly. I was going through some real depressing stuff IRL at the time, and the music and the atmosphere of Frostpunk was just so gripping, I was wondering whether I feel so sombre bcz of life or bcz of the game alone. But it was super immersive and helped me get through.
I'm open to the possibility that the game won't be my cup of tea, but I can't help but respect the developer for doing something very different this go around. It feels distinctly different from the mega studios whose definition of "evolving the gameplay" means exclusively "making it idiot-proof for the profit margins"
Same thing happened with darkest dungeon 2. The community chewed the developers (Red Hook) out hard over the changes. But if you want the sequel to be exactly the same then what's the point of there being a sequel at all.
I think people expect a sequel to build off the base game and improve it some way, rather than remake it into something different (which would be a spin off, a game with a different title in the same universe, but not a "sequel").
FP1 is city builder, this one is politics simulator, not neccessary bad but too much of a change, like jumping from SimCity to Civ 6 while saying both are the same
It's been years since I played Frostpunk, but I still remember some of the gut-wrenching choices I had to make knowing that it would mean suffering and death for the frostbitten citizens of my city. I also recall the pride I felt in building a prosperous community where even the sick, old and crippled were provided for. Surviving the catastrophic storm in the finale was a huge victory because I actually cared about the citizens of my city. The sequel looks like it was designed by economists and politicians.
and they abandoned robots! robots were a crazy end game twist ...and trains...that's what i wanted more of...not a sim of house of commons...and without lettuce its not even accurate lol
@@eldenringer6466the robots are there they are just in tech now. You aren’t micromanaging like in the first game. You have railways as well to other colonies.
The devs made a choice to increase the scope of the city which is a good decision for people that want more complexity and macro management. But they inadvertently turned it into Sim City but with snow. Eventually it's a matter of taste. Some people may like macro city builders, other prefer micro ones. They both offer something interesting. However i prefer the more micro city builders because i love watching the little guys go about their business. In FP1 you would get a lot more attached to the people because you could actually see them mulling about. People walking through the snow, people holding torches at night, giant steam robots slowly moving around, the tough decisions you had to make and even the scout teams you sent out made the game feel more alive and more personal. In the second one you just watch a bunch of charts, order some districts to be built and the machines just do it automatically... You have to sit in parliament and work the factions, do the politics and eventually the people are just some numbers, another resource to manage. FP2 gained complexity but lost that personal human touch. Definitely not for me...
@@doltBmB I think you donno this channel mate. All the old songs and references are randomly still returning in his reviews. There's no such thing as an "old meme" here.
@@sierratangoandras I know the channel, and it was funny when he first made it. But you need to not run jokes into the ground like a little child. Saying the same thing over and over is never funny.
@@kenserhoofje Then downscale. Making big numbers or a massive open world means absolutely f*cking nothing if it's devoid. It all goes back to the saying: quality over quantity.
Just finished the story, about 750 weeks, I've told 1 of my friends that, it isn't really a citybuilder rather a city management game. I do commend the devs for trying this route, another fp1 wouldn't have been much better. The biggest thing I miss is finer control/building, roads just get constructed automatically and all resources are all a pool with districts / buildings in them applying status effects to them, even housing. I think if they made roads buildable and other infra like pipes for oil it would significantly increase the building factor
Great review, thank you for sharing how you felt, this is the most important thing in a game. I loved how personal FP1 was, and how even I felt to be part of this community - we have our ups and downs together and when we finally went through the ultimate cold it was a heartwarming emotion. Damn it, will launch FP1 again! Cheers.
Thanks Mac, can't say i'm not disappointed in the direction they took with FP2. I feel the same way as you, FP1 had such a sense of urgency and struggle, a feeling of weathering the relentless suffering all around and still being able to progress and grow as a community. Like you said, it has a soul and they really captured Lightning in a bottle with it.
For me the thing that made Frostpunk 1 special was the fact that there was a sense of urgency. Like you gotta go fast and heat your homes, make sur your people are warm and healthy or youll freeze and get sick to death. You really felt like it was the end times. This....I dont really feel that. I was especially disappointed byt the end of the prologue. I played on the hardest difficulty, saved everyone. When the whiteout was about to hit, I was like "omg finally its happening, here we go" and then.... it ended before the whiteout. Like.... WHAT. This is the best part man! Anyway, theres essentially no "survival" in Frostpunk 2.
There's definitely survival and urgency here. The game is upscaled on the higher level. You survived the winter, now you need to build civilization. That's why the time passage is different and so is the scale of everything. A lot better in my opinion than a reskinned frostpunk 1
@@arturturkevych3816 also FP2 can quickly spiral into the abyss, building too fast or wasting resouces on a building you dont desperately need right now, can lead to imbalances and in the end to the downfall, you have to manage everything, sacrifice the few for the greater good. its different than FP1 but i love em both
frostpunk 2 should be expedition to another continent. The scientist realize there's a way to revert all of this and it need to be done in key position of the earth, drilling to the ground. imagine they set out to egypt with pyramid covered in snow and we build it next to it. in hope to better the earth. that's 1 map and there's another map going to new york with top of skyscrapers popping from the snow and we build a colony there. each area have their own challenges and benefits... making a colony/building inside a skyscrapers that are burried with snow to the top, etc.
Completely agree, this now feels more like just another city builder with the cold spin off. Like why fox something that wasnt broken? Ur first game worked and everyone loved it and the devs went like “hmmm, let’s completely change the thing that made people love our first game”. The first one felt more like a survival city builder which made it very unique to others. Really disappointed with the direction they went.
hit the nail on the head there for me. it's a completely different game and what made frostpunk 1 so special is pretty much taken out in this game making it a completely different experience. the annoying thing is, frostpunk 1 doesn't have and can't have mod support, whereas this game does. if frostpunk 1 were to have mod support, there'd be no need for a sequel for me. hopefully we see mods that basically allow us to turn frostpunk 2 into a better version of frostpunk 1.
no amount of mods can beat a great developer's crafted content. even the best are hamstrung by their own lack of free time, hard coded barriers to meaningful change and quality control, especially when the scope of the mod is bigger.
Did the opposite just in case :) I was so hyped, even got 7700XT FP2 edition :) Hate watching reviews and trailers and such for setting expectations for the game, but sometime do be like, fuck should have watched something, anything :)
I've already decided to buy the game, I'm just watching more reviews so I know exactly what to expect (not to like). It's much easier to be satisfied with a purchase if you knew what you were buying and made an informed decision. And this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think I'll kind of prefer a farther view on the city, where a workplace accident ending up with a new amputee or 8 in your city doesn't completely screw up the ultra finely balanced resource production chains, at which point you might as well load a previous save and pray you can avoid the accident this time around.
a spoiler for both the 1st and second game, the latter will be down below so even if it is a very minor one you probably will not see it. in the first game at the end of the main story and all the other side stories, like the arks for example, you are presented with a summary of what you have done. it is a bit simplified but says the compromises you did or did not make, the harsh desicions you did or did not make, the path you chose, if you crossed the line and how much. but just before that it tells you how many died, or if no one died. no matter the cause they are all listed, they may just be a number but they are there. another nice thing was that when it was not in the form of a list it was mostly presented in the we form, because while you are in charge you are still one man and the survival or grand project you work on is a group effort and everyone else still chooses to stand by your decisions. there is already videos out of the different endings for the main game and i have seen them and personally the summaries at the end do not really give the same feeling as the first ones. if you barely survive the storm in the new london story and you did what i did and mostly just clicked through the idea paths but stopped before going full tyrant since it would harm your workfoce, you are asked if it was worth saving the city because of what you did. at the end of the last autum when you finish building the generator, you are first told how many lives it cost to build it (if any) then you are told not only how many pepole will live here, but also how likely they are to survive, which only increases if you make special effort to upgrade the generator, with the best being mearly... acceptable. in the arks, did you only focus on keeping the seedlings warm or did you do everything you could to also save a city in need. did you struggle through it all never giving in once, did you scrape by, miracolusly keeping everyone alive. yes there is a massive difference in scale and pepole are numbers more than individauls. however fp2 feels like there is only harsh choices and compromies except lacking the harshest of all, not compromising but willingly suffer instead of crossing the line. though maybe it is because i have not experienced the game. also in the fp2 summary is listed just you and your decisions (except includeing the group you chose to favor), despite the fact that unlike the first game you are now an actual elected official, not a de facto dictator with emergency power, with all your laws being approved by the government. the we is so much more fitting it is ridicolus. the first game said we, as all was done for the survival of the group, but the player was very aware it was all their choices. in the second it is all pinned on you despite the group lore wise being even more involved. also by the end of the summary it brings up the different life of one single individual, the same each time and what your choices has done to them. if it were the first one i might have cared but in this one it is just additional information about a number. the only deaths they bring up are those that die in the last chapter, no other deaths are brought up. you are not even given a flat number and then told how many of them were of natural causes. both the living and the dead were "given more respect" in fp1 than in this game and then it tries to make me care about what i have done to one singel person... nah bro.
I love that they took frostpunk 1 and decided to go large for the sequel. I think they did an excellent job of making the sequel an actual sequel where lore wise of makes tons of sense to go large
The only thing I dislike about the second game is that you no longer have to group the entire city as close as possible to the generator, that gave it a feeling of community. Grouping up when it's cold is a base evolutionary instinct and fulfilling that in the first game was one of the best feelings.
You always admit when you get a key from the devs and still said straight up how you feel about the game. Never any bullshit. thats why i come to you for my game reviews Mack! Thanks for another good one!
After 33 hours into the game I have to say you're completely right. I dropped the campaign at stage 4 because the difficulty spikes so much that the game gets completely broken, and I switched for the Utopia Builder (a sort of controlled sandbox mode). 257 weeks into it, and literally NOT A SINGLE PERSON complained about anything. A blizzard came, they were dying in bunches. The city looked the same, just with some different lights on. Absolute soulless garbage compared to the first game. Buy that one, it's massively discounted now and it's still amazing.
i think it's a good progression on the story of frostpunk. in the first game you built the generator, you built your city, you got those infinite resource nodes and the steam cores and it just went on from there. now it's a full fledged city with all the squabble that comes with it. stakes aren't that high for individual people anymore. it's just a different scale. yes, it's a bold move to put a different spin on the franchise, it always is. and of course there are always people who are going to hate it. but i think it's great. if you want more of the first frostpunk, go play that. and honestly, to stray from the path they know gets them the sales numbers and go in a different direction makes me respect them more. it tells me they value their creative vision more than money.
I highly agree I like the concept of a Society growing from a few surviving, to a full city thriving. Who knows maybe they’ll even make a frostpunk 3 where you’ll run a nation, trying to unite city’s under on flag once more and rebuilding civilization.
@@T33K4Y lowkey yeah that sounds awesome, helldivers did the same with their game changed the perspective and gameplay style. Seems the thing they need to get right is the general theming of frostpunk back. That’s what most miss, the desperation of it all.
First thing to me was looking at the districts and going "why aren't you cramped up like sardines to benefit from the heat?" because that's how I would've played Frostpunk 1. I did love FP1 but I'm definitely a bit wary on FP2.
@@fishplayer6320 Nothing to do with placing the districts nearby, it's the visuals inside individual districts that look so spaced out and defeating the entire building style of FP1
Nope, that wasn't it. During early access of Subnautica, the studio introduced a simple feature, a button to press for players if they saw something interesting, or anything that they thought was worth a screenshot, including bug reports. From all the info, they created a heat map, sorted out the bugs and concentrated on figuring out what it was that many players found fascinating at one spot or another. Out came Subnautica, an absolute masterpiece, if I may say so myself. When Below Zero was made, they've just let the community chat them into bringing in this or that feature, so the loudest minorities got their way, of course, and what came out was nothing like the sequel that the silent majority had hoped for. That magic button was dearly missed, and a push to get the MVP out the door made a longer test phase, like it happened during the first game's development, impossible. They damn well knew what people loved in Subnautica, but marketing took over and social media managers mistook the input from a bunch of terminally online egg-heads as community feedback. Those who managed to ruin the second part of the game probably didn't even play it and never had the intention to do so, like always.
Got yourself a sub, thank you for this review. I'd been anxiously awaiting the arrival of this game but after watching your video I'll work on my backlog before thinking about buying FP2.
The new "district" system is awful, and the balancing is way off, given that this game is insanely easy. It almost seems like the devs really tried their hardest to make sure the player isn't immersed, unlike Frostpunk 1, which had a design.
they should've made it more personal but with more detail mechanics, let the player be a person living in the city of the frostpunk universe, this war of mine in frostpunk, with conflicts, problem solving, missions, management, assigning tasks, survival, etc
Was really hesitant about this game after seeing how many core things they changed. And this review really makes me feel like you're no longer the mayor caring for the citizens while trying to survive the cold. Instead you're now an Oil Conglomerate, gotta bribe politicians and make people like you just to get the laws you need passed, and have no care for the civilians. So what 100 citizens died.
Thanks for your open words as always. I'll check out more info before getting it. I liked Frostpunk and what it made unique. So, as I have more factories to build after Satis 1.0 is released, I'll put this one in the freezer of my wishlist for later possible consumption.
tbh they shouldn't have bothered with a Frostpunk 2, the first game could stand on its own. They could've put their resources into a new experience. Maybe Dustpunk lol
Exactly what i thought, Frostpunk 2 isn't really a city builder anymore, but a politics simulator. Funny and sad, but the devs from Endzone a World Apart, made the same mistake with their Endzone 2 game. Everything is bigger but not better.
For a political simulator, that's one aspect of the game they didn't improve. Need to wait 10 weeks for some reason to pass a new law and you can't skip any proposals the factions make, making you wait another 10 weeks to pass something you want.
Tried the prologue on xbox live and I'm immediately disappointed. Frostpunk was amazing for making you care about every single life on your colony, it was incredibly immersive and tense for a city builder, even baught the board game. Reinstalled Frostpunk 1 again and the difference is immense, im glad i didn't buy the sequel.
After playing prologue im like "wtf is even this?" Not sure if I even want to play more. Game has so little in common with 1st frostpunk in terms of gameplay/
Damn, that sucks. I would have hoped for the opposite direction, like being able to get inside their home and upgrade them from the inside, getting attached to that particular engineer etc.. oh well not the first disappointment this year.
Outside of the few districts, there's not much depth to the game. FP1 had so many buildings! A clinic vs care home vs a hospital. Where is the brothel and fighting arena?
Frostpunk 1 mechanics were what made it so good. Why would they even consider changing them??? All they had to do was give the game more scale.. bigger maps with a huge radius for the circular city and some extra tech. Its not even frostpunk 2 the way it looks from this review. More like a spin off.
It is basically Frostpunk 1.5/ DLC. I heard that the main reason the Dev want to make this because it want making all the sacrifice and effort in FP1 story not in vain. They now that this is risky move and the are fully aware of it. Just wait for their gamble is right
@@GamingWimpGW360 All of my opinions are 100% formed from my own thoughts and nothing else. There has NEVER been a time where I have been influenced in any shape or form by another being, human or otherwise. Not even my parents when I was an infant! I came into this video for some reason, but it was definitely not to be brainwashed into liking/hating Frostpunk the Second... /s
What I was worried about. I agree with everything you said about Frostpunk 1. The intimacy of the story and the people is key to why that game was so immersive.
Frostpunk 1 = This War of Mine crossed with a city builder. Frostpunk 2 = Anno 1877: Arctic Edition. I played the crap out out of Frostpunk 1 because it was such an innovative take on the city builder genre with a great story, setting, gameplay, soundtrack and just evyerything. Frostpunk 2 feels generic like Ubisoft or EA made it. It's a city builder in the arctic. Big whoop. Now go and stack adjacency bonuses for the next three hours until your game crashes at week 1,000.
@@GeraltofRivia22 man it's so sad how it became I literally couldn't play more than 2 hours before getting bored even though I played darkest dungeon so much
Seems to be a common theme with pretty much everything. A restaurant, a content creator, a game/movie franchise. Success leads to scale. Which leads to impersonality and lack of soul.
Perfectly said and simple. "Lost its soul" that made us care about the survivors in the first game. Its a shame because Frost Punk 2 looks SOOOOO good graphically. I LOVE the UI design of the second game :(
Thanks. I just finished my first play-through of FP1, and you are correct; I was fully invested in every decision and outcome. When I saw FP2, I felt I may have lost my feelings for FP1, and your commentary confirms what I thought. So, I am now on the fence about whether I should purchase FP2.
It's like watching my RGB lights in my desktop surrounded with white light. The little that I've played it Frostpunk 2 seems more like Surviving Mars than Frostpunk.
I dont like city builders, no matter how many times I try to get into them, i just quit. Frostpunk is the only game that i played and that too a lot because of all the reasons you mentioned, you felt a connection with the people and the city which was cool and motivated you to make a nice place for them to survive. Everything i have seen in Frostpunk 2 reminds me of why i don’t like city builders. Needless to say, i havent purchased this game yet even though i waited for it for so long. Kinda sad tbh, oh well, i can always fire-up endless extreme rifts and have a blast on the OG frostpunk
Your original Frostpunk review is what made me sub to the channel years ago and I've been watching ever since. Frostpunk 1 is one of my favourite games ever so am tempted not even to give this a go because I know I'll be disappointed.
It lost survival element. I didn't buy it because I saw it and immediately knew it's frostpunk only in name... Half the game is clicking different menus. It's more a manager than an RTS city builder.
I actually agree with everything you said about the charm and intimacy of the original being lost but I think I might pick it up anyway because it looks like a pretty decent empire building strategy game in its own right. I'll just have to try and make myself forget that its supposed to be a Frostpunk sequel and in that goal it failed miserably.
Having never played Frostpunk 1, I can say that it was fun trying to frantically figure out how to solve the problems they throw at you but you're right, it was just staring at a still picture almost with pretty lights. But damn those hours flew by before I got kicked out of the city lol.
Frostpunk 1 was a different experience as a survival game. The stress to keep your people alive without a real combat threat was different but immersive
Tldr: I liked Frostpunk 1 better too. UI was a bit annoying in regard that it wasnt clear which buildings went where and similar stuff. Also noticed some bugs. I really wanted to enjoy the whole politics stuff, but there was too much stuff happening on the side, those laws came off as annoying duty rather than enjoyable experience. Maybe if you only had to pass laws, create some kind of advanced political hierarchy and see how it impacted the city growth it would've been more interesting. Idk it just didnt feel like a "city". The roads were all over the place, every building looked the same, you couldn't see actual people doing stuff, it didnt feel alive to me. The way on Frostpunk 1 everyone woke up and went to work just felt so real, the way snow melted near the generator felt real. You're not getting any of this here. Also the ending was so much better on Frostpunk 1 (when they showed a timelapse of your city). It's not a bad game, but unfortunately didn't live up to high expectations.
I can understand why they choose to go with this style for the continuation since it's nice to see that through our actions we created a future where civilization can survive and thrive but I agree with Mac. I can still remember my perfect "no death + no extremes" game where I had to struggle with morale and when that final storm hit I was just looking at the screen hoping that my people will survive. I didn't worry about food or coal since I got plenty but my people had to survive. And as the cold got worse and worse, the mighty furnace was overheating, the mines collapsing and more and more people would get sick I was imagining the lone Captain not in the comfort of his office but outside with his people. Seeing them get sicker and sicker yet still working to keep the mighty furnace running until, finally, after hours of agonizing frost they started to feel the warm embrace of the furnace yet again. The Storm Has Passed and everyone survived. I don't think they can pull something like that with this one but I hope they will for at the end of the day: THE CITY MUST SURVIVE! P.S: I kinda dislike that there is very little continuity with this one. Yes you can choose the "path" that you went for in the last game (duty vs faith) but it's not clear if you canonically went for the extreme (Obedience To The Captain or death) or Moral (Don't go full authorian) side of that path.
Hey Mac, love the videos, honesty and directness with your vids. One thing that I think might be useful is to specify your rig with a tiny bit more detail. Saying you "have an i9" doesn't really cover your specs accurately. What you have is a 9900K. I only say this as the gaming performance between an i9 9900K and an i9 14900K is pretty significant, even though they are both i9 tier CPUs. It will help the average person understand the age of your rig more accurately. "I have a 9900K, 32GB RAM, RTX 2080" 😃. Keep up the good work!
i mean FP1 i didnt care for the people too, first thing childs labor and triage makes the game alot easier, in the end its numbers and you have to make the city survive. in FP2 the numbers are larger, and yes we care less, thats how humans work. 100 sick who cares, 100 died who cares, but then 300 missing, and you are 200 short in workforce, but you need the resources and its spiraling
I think most frostpunk fans feel this way about this game. It is decent but we all just wanted a frostpunk 1.5 similar to the original. The feel of the game is lost
They took the best aspect of Frostpunk, threw it to the bin and started from scratch. It feels as if this was made by another dev team with Frostpunk IP. If they want to build upon the lore, that the city survived the big frost and grew big, then just make the player take care of a single district within a big city then. The premise of this sequel would then be: the city grew too fast and in our complacent, we forgot how we made thru the big frost. As player, we would be competing with other districts for resources and survival, the campaign would walk us through each different kind of district in the quest for survival, housing district, extraction district, food district,... Each would have its own unique challenges and features for players to deal with, keeping it fresh and sequel worthy while maintaining the soul of the original that many of us seek.
What's disappointing about Frostpunk 2 is that it could of been so much better, with just a few tweaks. They lost the soul of the game, and turned it into a shallow 1995 sim city builder except somehow worse, and lost the hard push and pull of surviving, and helping your people move society and civilization forward. It didn't need to be dumbed down as much as it was, or all the immersion taken away, like those tractors spawning in and out when you're clearing areas, or people phasing in and out of existence.
There was an intimacy about having a kid's mom asking to feed her kids. In the demo of new one, I didn't even know the MPs name that wanted me to make a dumb decision, so I could get his faction's support in the next vote. The humanity was abstracted away. I was shocked after games like Frostpunk 1, and This War of Mine, which made you deal with consequences.
I've revisited Frospunk 1 last winter and it was great, will play it again this winter as doing it when is cold and snowy outside gives it a nice plus. Just before we get to KC2.
I heard another reviewer say "They couldn't make FP2 a city builder because FP1 was a city builder. That would have just been a copy of FP1". I had to facepalm at that. Anno, City Skylines, SIM CITY ffs.... So many franchises in the city builder genre with sequels that are still city builders. Just blew my mind hearing him say that.
The mechanics in this game are far better than the original. The scenarios are much more technically challenging and present the player far more options with which to achieve their objective. While in the first game you couldn't repeal laws, which was a great decision from the standpoint that difficult choices made early should have long term consequences, I really appreciate how in FP2 you can but this is balanced against causing severe internal strife. All of this leads to a mechanically more fun and interesting experience evidenced by the fact that the utopia mode in FP2 is far more fun, challenging and engaging than FP1's endless mode. In this way, I really appreciate how the developers have completely changed the game while making it feel much like the original. However, the main story is nowhere near as interesting, compelling or immersive as in the first game. There is only one scenario out now and the focus is no longer on survival but thriving which was a very intentional choice. I do feel something has been lost, as I am no longer packing a dreadnought to flee a doomed city, sending aid in a last ditch effort to save human lives, or bracing for a ridiculously cold whiteout that feels like it lasts forever as the music swells and I know everyone is huddled up together in my just in time constructed housing. I think one thing that makes the first game much more atmospheric is the day/night cycle where you see your city lit up overnight in the glow of the generator. Anyway, if you just play through the campaign then what Mac said is 100% correct. If you start sinking hours into the utopia builder and trying to optimized your city, you will find this a much more rewarding experience than the fist game.
Haven't played it but my impressions from what I've seen are the same as yours. A big part of frostpunk was the feeling of your city expanding and getting past those milestones. Getting your first automaton, finally being able to man a factory. There doesn't seem to be that feeling of scarcity in frostpunk 2, which makes some sense thematically. But it also makes the game look a lot less interesting
This feels like a 3X game disguised as a city builder, (4X but minus the exterminate and AI factions). The way you need to exploit and manage resources on the map, juggle different mechanics, as a Civ and endless space player, it feels oddly familiar. Would be interesting to see an actual 4X game, where the culture of New London is determined by your playstyle and you basically play to recreate civilization in the frostlands whilst competing with other factions with their own culture. Yes you lose out on the immersion, especially compared to the more intimate scale the first game, but no one's going to be looking for that in a 4X game. I say the devs succeeded in not rehasing the first game, I can understand why some people might get upset that the "soul" of the first game is now gone. But in my opinion, it's always better to try something new, even if it upsets some people.
"The death of one is a tragedy, the death of million's just a statistic." You know, it would be funny if the scaling and politics were an attempt on social commentary, lol.
Funny had the same feeling. Really good game, just somehow lacking the hook. Got to 3'd mission before I just moved on. Shame really, as everything seems improved on. It just can't grab my attention for some reason.
I don't really care what anyone really says about the game, I just find it terrible. It's a completely different experience, it's not fun. People say oh what you wanted "more of the same". Yes, I wanted Frostpunk 1 with new mechanics on a grander scale. This is a different game with a frostpunk skin. It doesn't play similar, it doesn't feel similar, it just looks similar. I couldn't get into it, I'm glad I pirated it and didn't purchase it.
Same here brother, torrented the beta in April, uninstalled within 20 minutes. I really hoped it would be better when released but nope. A dictator simulator with democracy theme politics makes no sense. They should have gone and made us mayor of a single district and compete with other districts for survival instead.
In Frostpunk 1 I felt dread of not knowing if I have enough coal for the night while I watched the people go to their cozzy home or hunting for the scarce food. In Frostpunk 2 I couldn't tell day from night, or any sense of passage of time. I'm seriously thinking in refunding that game
Frostpunk 1: makes you feel the pain of loss of a small comunity
Frostpunk 2: makes you understand the apathy of turning people into numbers
Sounds perfect, the first one was boring me alot
One death is a tragedy, a million deaths a statistic.
@@Vajrubaj I wonder if it will be raining.
@@spero360 I love the first game. It's very challenging and It does make you care about the city.
Not a bad thing if you ask me. Both bring an understanding to human nature. a city builder with lessons that can help you understand something things in todays world other than just produce more food n lecky nd a 3rd recourse
“When I passed laws, I just didn’t give a shit.” - the government, probably
Literally every government on the planet 😂
every single one of them
Government, guaranteed.
This game should be tagged with "government simulator", a new subgenre of city building
Globalists
the real deal is that frost punk is $3 at the moment
just grabbed it, thanks for letting me know!
O damn
How's the base game experience without any DLC?
@@Outplayedqtvery good. But with the DLC it’s $12. Worth it definitely. All DLC is solid
@@Outplayedqt Base game is definitely the best. Every dlc is harder, shorter than previous one
In short: Congratulations, you are no longer a mayor. You are a politician.
In a way, it thematically makes sense. The city mayor has moved up, and become less concerned about individual lives than political bodies. People become faceless numbers. It's grim, it's dark, and it's what happens.
True - but that scenario doesn't necessarily make for a fun game.
They didn't have to choose a theme that forces them to change the game. They could pick a theme that justifies keeping the gameplay the same! They weren't forced to pick this specific theme!
This kind of scenario should be in Frostpunk 3.
I mean, the lore suggests that we survived 30yrs after the frost. In the first game, you can save up to ±690 people. So it's only logical to have approximately only 1500 people survive in harsh environment for 30yrs period.
But in Frostpunk 2, you have 8000 people (like, what? are these people rabbits?) and the Lore-breaking is the tech, all that extraction machine, actual train in a rail? All these are developed in 30yrs?
When FP1 scenario 'On the Edge' happened, that was what I thought would be FP2. A thriving society in the midst of cold, where they must find solution to limited resources, not engaging in a full blown politics.
It may be like that, but the factions' system is way too shallow and frostpunk 2 politics are tedious. Overall, its a net negative.
The devs made a choice to increase the scope of the city which is a good decision for people that want more complexity and macro management. But they inadvertently turned it into Sim City but with snow. Eventually it's a matter of taste. Some people may like macro city builders, other prefer micro ones. They both offer something interesting. However i prefer the more micro city builders because i love watching the little guys go about their business.
In FP1 you would get a lot more attached to the people because you could actually see them mulling about. People walking through the snow, people holding torches at night, giant steam robots slowly moving around, the tough decisions you had to make and even the scout teams you sent out made the game feel more alive and more personal.
In the second one you just watch a bunch of charts, order some districts to be built and the machines just do it automatically... You have to sit in parliament and work the factions, do the politics and eventually the people are just some numbers, another resource to manage. FP2 gained complexity but lost that personal human touch.
Definitely not for me...
I still remember the guy I sentenced to public execution in FP1.
What did he do?
@@TheGavranatar jaywalked in the snow
Or forcing the kids to work & not get trained as techs or medics. I did that once & always sent them to school in later games. It tested OUR humanity 😅
@@big.pizzleyea, you must pass the Child Shelter first, which seems useless in a hindsight.
Ultimately, Child Apprentice can really boost your chosen focus. In my later playthrough, I build like 5 Child Shelter & passed the medic appretice law, and it really solves the sickness problem. People entering Infirmary as if it is a drive-thru.
@@nickochioneantony9288 meh as a Deichkind once rapped: "kleine feine Kinderhände, nähen schöne Schuhe, meine neuen Sneakers, leider geil"
In Frostpunk, every death, drop in hope and rise in discontent added tension. You had to keep your stocks of resources and building temperatures high in order for the city to survive. The City Must Survive.
Yeah I don't even need to monitor heat anymore, just get coal / oil, that's it. No more worrying about workers getting cold and dying at the factory. Now 100's of people just die at once who knows where.
Well the first game was roughly 50 day long not literal decades long the new game
The first game was profoundly depressing and extremely stressful. Terrible experience. 10/10. Looking forward to giving this a go anyway.
Terrible experience. 10/10🤣
Yeah truly. I was going through some real depressing stuff IRL at the time, and the music and the atmosphere of Frostpunk was just so gripping, I was wondering whether I feel so sombre bcz of life or bcz of the game alone. But it was super immersive and helped me get through.
"Worst game ive ever played. 9.5/10 - IGN
Play it in a cold winter with a blanket and heater around you for the immersion.
Same terrible experience you get playing Darkest Dungeon.
been silently watching your videos forever - thank you for all the work you put in :)
I watch in silence too, it’s the only way I can hear
Sounds like FrostPunk 2 makes you a CEO.
I will name my character Larry Fink.
More like a province premier / state governor managing multiple cities. Before it was more like managing a town of people.
Einhorn is Finkle?
I'm open to the possibility that the game won't be my cup of tea, but I can't help but respect the developer for doing something very different this go around. It feels distinctly different from the mega studios whose definition of "evolving the gameplay" means exclusively "making it idiot-proof for the profit margins"
Same thing happened with darkest dungeon 2. The community chewed the developers (Red Hook) out hard over the changes. But if you want the sequel to be exactly the same then what's the point of there being a sequel at all.
@@azathoththe3rd A good sequel is usually the same game but with some improved visuals and mechanics. Not a whole different game.
It’s not something very different
I think people expect a sequel to build off the base game and improve it some way, rather than remake it into something different (which would be a spin off, a game with a different title in the same universe, but not a "sequel").
FP1 is city builder, this one is politics simulator, not neccessary bad but too much of a change, like jumping from SimCity to Civ 6 while saying both are the same
It's been years since I played Frostpunk, but I still remember some of the gut-wrenching choices I had to make knowing that it would mean suffering and death for the frostbitten citizens of my city. I also recall the pride I felt in building a prosperous community where even the sick, old and crippled were provided for. Surviving the catastrophic storm in the finale was a huge victory because I actually cared about the citizens of my city. The sequel looks like it was designed by economists and politicians.
and they abandoned robots! robots were a crazy end game twist ...and trains...that's what i wanted more of...not a sim of house of commons...and without lettuce its not even accurate lol
@@eldenringer6466the robots are there they are just in tech now. You aren’t micromanaging like in the first game. You have railways as well to other colonies.
The devs made a choice to increase the scope of the city which is a good decision for people that want more complexity and macro management. But they inadvertently turned it into Sim City but with snow. Eventually it's a matter of taste. Some people may like macro city builders, other prefer micro ones. They both offer something interesting. However i prefer the more micro city builders because i love watching the little guys go about their business.
In FP1 you would get a lot more attached to the people because you could actually see them mulling about. People walking through the snow, people holding torches at night, giant steam robots slowly moving around, the tough decisions you had to make and even the scout teams you sent out made the game feel more alive and more personal.
In the second one you just watch a bunch of charts, order some districts to be built and the machines just do it automatically... You have to sit in parliament and work the factions, do the politics and eventually the people are just some numbers, another resource to manage. FP2 gained complexity but lost that personal human touch.
Definitely not for me...
Considering the need for heat and rep with factions and coal in your bank, I think Mack missed a huge opportunity for a song
that meme is older than your grandma at this point, stop running things into the ground
@@doltBmB I think you donno this channel mate. All the old songs and references are randomly still returning in his reviews. There's no such thing as an "old meme" here.
@@sierratangoandras I know the channel, and it was funny when he first made it. But you need to not run jokes into the ground like a little child. Saying the same thing over and over is never funny.
Well. What have we learned here?
Immersion. Is. Everything.
Pity we know that but 95% of game devs don't
Problem is that immersion is more difficult in a larger-scale strategy game, only a few games hit the nail on the head. E.g. Homeworld.
@@kenserhoofje Then downscale. Making big numbers or a massive open world means absolutely f*cking nothing if it's devoid. It all goes back to the saying: quality over quantity.
Just finished the story, about 750 weeks, I've told 1 of my friends that, it isn't really a citybuilder rather a city management game. I do commend the devs for trying this route, another fp1 wouldn't have been much better.
The biggest thing I miss is finer control/building, roads just get constructed automatically and all resources are all a pool with districts / buildings in them applying status effects to them, even housing. I think if they made roads buildable and other infra like pipes for oil it would significantly increase the building factor
Great review, thank you for sharing how you felt, this is the most important thing in a game. I loved how personal FP1 was, and how even I felt to be part of this community - we have our ups and downs together and when we finally went through the ultimate cold it was a heartwarming emotion. Damn it, will launch FP1 again! Cheers.
Thanks Mac, can't say i'm not disappointed in the direction they took with FP2. I feel the same way as you, FP1 had such a sense of urgency and struggle, a feeling of weathering the relentless suffering all around and still being able to progress and grow as a community. Like you said, it has a soul and they really captured Lightning in a bottle with it.
For me the thing that made Frostpunk 1 special was the fact that there was a sense of urgency. Like you gotta go fast and heat your homes, make sur your people are warm and healthy or youll freeze and get sick to death. You really felt like it was the end times. This....I dont really feel that. I was especially disappointed byt the end of the prologue. I played on the hardest difficulty, saved everyone. When the whiteout was about to hit, I was like "omg finally its happening, here we go" and then.... it ended before the whiteout. Like.... WHAT. This is the best part man!
Anyway, theres essentially no "survival" in Frostpunk 2.
The prologue isn't meant to be hard. It's the tutorial...
There's definitely survival and urgency here. The game is upscaled on the higher level. You survived the winter, now you need to build civilization. That's why the time passage is different and so is the scale of everything. A lot better in my opinion than a reskinned frostpunk 1
Waaa
@@arturturkevych3816 also FP2 can quickly spiral into the abyss, building too fast or wasting resouces on a building you dont desperately need right now, can lead to imbalances and in the end to the downfall, you have to manage everything, sacrifice the few for the greater good. its different than FP1 but i love em both
The prologue is literally the tutorial for the basics
frostpunk 2 should be expedition to another continent. The scientist realize there's a way to revert all of this and it need to be done in key position of the earth, drilling to the ground. imagine they set out to egypt with pyramid covered in snow and we build it next to it. in hope to better the earth. that's 1 map and there's another map going to new york with top of skyscrapers popping from the snow and we build a colony there. each area have their own challenges and benefits... making a colony/building inside a skyscrapers that are burried with snow to the top, etc.
FP1 made me tear up over a broken automaton in a cinematic. FP2 makes me feel I'm painting on an Excel spreadsheet.
But do the pensioners get their heating allowance back?
Completely agree, this now feels more like just another city builder with the cold spin off. Like why fox something that wasnt broken? Ur first game worked and everyone loved it and the devs went like “hmmm, let’s completely change the thing that made people love our first game”. The first one felt more like a survival city builder which made it very unique to others. Really disappointed with the direction they went.
hit the nail on the head there for me. it's a completely different game and what made frostpunk 1 so special is pretty much taken out in this game making it a completely different experience. the annoying thing is, frostpunk 1 doesn't have and can't have mod support, whereas this game does. if frostpunk 1 were to have mod support, there'd be no need for a sequel for me. hopefully we see mods that basically allow us to turn frostpunk 2 into a better version of frostpunk 1.
no amount of mods can beat a great developer's crafted content. even the best are hamstrung by their own lack of free time, hard coded barriers to meaningful change and quality control, especially when the scope of the mod is bigger.
Meaning 2 can be modded into 1 lol 😂
@@MundaneThingsBackwards*Skyrim has entered the chat.*
@@corthirteenth94 Fallout: London has entered the chat.
I think you are spot on. It is good, but it's no Frostpunk Original. Civilisation meets Frostpunk Manager
Still going to be playing this, but I'm glad to have my expectations tempered, great review Mac
It's more like playing SimCity than Theme Hospital, that's the difference.
Did the opposite just in case :) I was so hyped, even got 7700XT FP2 edition :)
Hate watching reviews and trailers and such for setting expectations for the game, but sometime do be like, fuck should have watched something, anything :)
I've already decided to buy the game, I'm just watching more reviews so I know exactly what to expect (not to like). It's much easier to be satisfied with a purchase if you knew what you were buying and made an informed decision.
And this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think I'll kind of prefer a farther view on the city, where a workplace accident ending up with a new amputee or 8 in your city doesn't completely screw up the ultra finely balanced resource production chains, at which point you might as well load a previous save and pray you can avoid the accident this time around.
Frostpunk 2 - No resource gathering through the snow! ... I'm out.
a spoiler for both the 1st and second game, the latter will be down below so even if it is a very minor one you probably will not see it. in the first game at the end of the main story and all the other side stories, like the arks for example, you are presented with a summary of what you have done. it is a bit simplified but says the compromises you did or did not make, the harsh desicions you did or did not make, the path you chose, if you crossed the line and how much. but just before that it tells you how many died, or if no one died. no matter the cause they are all listed, they may just be a number but they are there. another nice thing was that when it was not in the form of a list it was mostly presented in the we form, because while you are in charge you are still one man and the survival or grand project you work on is a group effort and everyone else still chooses to stand by your decisions.
there is already videos out of the different endings for the main game and i have seen them and personally the summaries at the end do not really give the same feeling as the first ones. if you barely survive the storm in the new london story and you did what i did and mostly just clicked through the idea paths but stopped before going full tyrant since it would harm your workfoce, you are asked if it was worth saving the city because of what you did. at the end of the last autum when you finish building the generator, you are first told how many lives it cost to build it (if any) then you are told not only how many pepole will live here, but also how likely they are to survive, which only increases if you make special effort to upgrade the generator, with the best being mearly... acceptable. in the arks, did you only focus on keeping the seedlings warm or did you do everything you could to also save a city in need. did you struggle through it all never giving in once, did you scrape by, miracolusly keeping everyone alive. yes there is a massive difference in scale and pepole are numbers more than individauls. however fp2 feels like there is only harsh choices and compromies except lacking the harshest of all, not compromising but willingly suffer instead of crossing the line. though maybe it is because i have not experienced the game.
also in the fp2 summary is listed just you and your decisions (except includeing the group you chose to favor), despite the fact that unlike the first game you are now an actual elected official, not a de facto dictator with emergency power, with all your laws being approved by the government. the we is so much more fitting it is ridicolus. the first game said we, as all was done for the survival of the group, but the player was very aware it was all their choices. in the second it is all pinned on you despite the group lore wise being even more involved. also by the end of the summary it brings up the different life of one single individual, the same each time and what your choices has done to them. if it were the first one i might have cared but in this one it is just additional information about a number. the only deaths they bring up are those that die in the last chapter, no other deaths are brought up. you are not even given a flat number and then told how many of them were of natural causes. both the living and the dead were "given more respect" in fp1 than in this game and then it tries to make me care about what i have done to one singel person... nah bro.
Yeah frost punk made i really think about decicions and the people and u got reminded of the bad stuff u did from a human rights perspective.
I love that they took frostpunk 1 and decided to go large for the sequel. I think they did an excellent job of making the sequel an actual sequel where lore wise of makes tons of sense to go large
The only thing I dislike about the second game is that you no longer have to group the entire city as close as possible to the generator, that gave it a feeling of community. Grouping up when it's cold is a base evolutionary instinct and fulfilling that in the first game was one of the best feelings.
You always admit when you get a key from the devs and still said straight up how you feel about the game. Never any bullshit. thats why i come to you for my game reviews Mack! Thanks for another good one!
After 33 hours into the game I have to say you're completely right. I dropped the campaign at stage 4 because the difficulty spikes so much that the game gets completely broken, and I switched for the Utopia Builder (a sort of controlled sandbox mode). 257 weeks into it, and literally NOT A SINGLE PERSON complained about anything. A blizzard came, they were dying in bunches. The city looked the same, just with some different lights on. Absolute soulless garbage compared to the first game. Buy that one, it's massively discounted now and it's still amazing.
i think it's a good progression on the story of frostpunk. in the first game you built the generator, you built your city, you got those infinite resource nodes and the steam cores and it just went on from there. now it's a full fledged city with all the squabble that comes with it. stakes aren't that high for individual people anymore. it's just a different scale.
yes, it's a bold move to put a different spin on the franchise, it always is. and of course there are always people who are going to hate it. but i think it's great. if you want more of the first frostpunk, go play that.
and honestly, to stray from the path they know gets them the sales numbers and go in a different direction makes me respect them more. it tells me they value their creative vision more than money.
I highly agree I like the concept of a Society growing from a few surviving, to a full city thriving. Who knows maybe they’ll even make a frostpunk 3 where you’ll run a nation, trying to unite city’s under on flag once more and rebuilding civilization.
@@wingedfool8392 and then in frostpunk 4, they'll turn the game into an fps game. then in frostpunk 5, we'll have a MMO star citizen type of game.
@@T33K4Y lowkey yeah that sounds awesome, helldivers did the same with their game changed the perspective and gameplay style. Seems the thing they need to get right is the general theming of frostpunk back. That’s what most miss, the desperation of it all.
First thing to me was looking at the districts and going "why aren't you cramped up like sardines to benefit from the heat?" because that's how I would've played Frostpunk 1. I did love FP1 but I'm definitely a bit wary on FP2.
You do get less heat demand from placing districts close to each other
@@fishplayer6320 Nothing to do with placing the districts nearby, it's the visuals inside individual districts that look so spaced out and defeating the entire building style of FP1
Sounds a bit like what happened with Subnautica Below Zero, devs that have no idea why the first game was loved in the first place.
Sub Zero was a spinoff though, it wasn't supposed to act as a sequel
Nope, that wasn't it. During early access of Subnautica, the studio introduced a simple feature, a button to press for players if they saw something interesting, or anything that they thought was worth a screenshot, including bug reports. From all the info, they created a heat map, sorted out the bugs and concentrated on figuring out what it was that many players found fascinating at one spot or another.
Out came Subnautica, an absolute masterpiece, if I may say so myself.
When Below Zero was made, they've just let the community chat them into bringing in this or that feature, so the loudest minorities got their way, of course, and what came out was nothing like the sequel that the silent majority had hoped for. That magic button was dearly missed, and a push to get the MVP out the door made a longer test phase, like it happened during the first game's development, impossible. They damn well knew what people loved in Subnautica, but marketing took over and social media managers mistook the input from a bunch of terminally online egg-heads as community feedback.
Those who managed to ruin the second part of the game probably didn't even play it and never had the intention to do so, like always.
i prefer below zero my self but each to there own
dunno what's so bad about below zero compared to the first one. both have their ups and downs. in terms of story i found both to be quite good.
Subnautica is a terrible game, everyone loved it because others loved it, pure sheep behavior.
Cheers bud. Great review, answered all my worries after watching the pre-release videos. Saved me a few quid
Got yourself a sub, thank you for this review. I'd been anxiously awaiting the arrival of this game but after watching your video I'll work on my backlog before thinking about buying FP2.
The new "district" system is awful, and the balancing is way off, given that this game is insanely easy.
It almost seems like the devs really tried their hardest to make sure the player isn't immersed, unlike Frostpunk 1, which had a design.
Another down-to-the-ground review from Mack.
The good thing about FrostPunk 2 coming out, is that I picked up the original game for a song. It's on sale everywhere.
they should've made it more personal but with more detail mechanics, let the player be a person living in the city of the frostpunk universe, this war of mine in frostpunk, with conflicts, problem solving, missions, management, assigning tasks, survival, etc
That sounds very boring.
@@themos4761 it beats looking at chunk of structures with lights on it for hours, cant even make out people now
Thank you for another prompt and succinct review! One of my favorite channels on youtube.
Was really hesitant about this game after seeing how many core things they changed. And this review really makes me feel like you're no longer the mayor caring for the citizens while trying to survive the cold. Instead you're now an Oil Conglomerate, gotta bribe politicians and make people like you just to get the laws you need passed, and have no care for the civilians. So what 100 citizens died.
Thanks for your open words as always. I'll check out more info before getting it. I liked Frostpunk and what it made unique. So, as I have more factories to build after Satis 1.0 is released, I'll put this one in the freezer of my wishlist for later possible consumption.
tbh they shouldn't have bothered with a Frostpunk 2, the first game could stand on its own. They could've put their resources into a new experience. Maybe Dustpunk lol
Exactly what i thought, Frostpunk 2 isn't really a city builder anymore, but a politics simulator.
Funny and sad, but the devs from Endzone a World Apart, made the same mistake with their Endzone 2 game.
Everything is bigger but not better.
The politics thing is just flavor. Just picture a tech tree with every positive with added affect.
For a political simulator, that's one aspect of the game they didn't improve. Need to wait 10 weeks for some reason to pass a new law and you can't skip any proposals the factions make, making you wait another 10 weeks to pass something you want.
@@UnsaltedCashew38 Go to the central district and use the emergency council session ability.
Tried the prologue on xbox live and I'm immediately disappointed. Frostpunk was amazing for making you care about every single life on your colony, it was incredibly immersive and tense for a city builder, even baught the board game. Reinstalled Frostpunk 1 again and the difference is immense, im glad i didn't buy the sequel.
After playing prologue im like "wtf is even this?" Not sure if I even want to play more. Game has so little in common with 1st frostpunk in terms of gameplay/
Agreed
This game is an excel spreadsheet simulator with minimum animations, I work with spreadsheets and this game captured the feel of it perfectly.
@@jinmark9453 well put, just a management game with extra steps. I dont know wanna if i wanna play it again
Damn, that sucks. I would have hoped for the opposite direction, like being able to get inside their home and upgrade them from the inside, getting attached to that particular engineer etc.. oh well not the first disappointment this year.
Outside of the few districts, there's not much depth to the game. FP1 had so many buildings! A clinic vs care home vs a hospital. Where is the brothel and fighting arena?
Frostpunk 1: Your city survived, but at what cost... Frostpunk 2: Your game survived, but at what cost...
Frostpunk 1 mechanics were what made it so good. Why would they even consider changing them??? All they had to do was give the game more scale.. bigger maps with a huge radius for the circular city and some extra tech. Its not even frostpunk 2 the way it looks from this review. More like a spin off.
It is basically Frostpunk 1.5/ DLC. I heard that the main reason the Dev want to make this because it want making all the sacrifice and effort in FP1 story not in vain. They now that this is risky move and the are fully aware of it. Just wait for their gamble is right
Sounds like they turned it into a good generic city builder with survival elements rather than a great atmospheric survival city builder.
That’s right, let someone else form an opinion for you without forming an opinion for yourself. Atta boy…
@@Caucasian60 thats why youre on this review right
@@GamingWimpGW360 All of my opinions are 100% formed from my own thoughts and nothing else. There has NEVER been a time where I have been influenced in any shape or form by another being, human or otherwise. Not even my parents when I was an infant! I came into this video for some reason, but it was definitely not to be brainwashed into liking/hating Frostpunk the Second... /s
@@Brandisius No one is hating anything. You’re just a sensitive manchild
So you wanted an identical one? You litearlly have the first for that experience.
What I was worried about. I agree with everything you said about Frostpunk 1. The intimacy of the story and the people is key to why that game was so immersive.
Thanks, Mack! Following this I decided to check out the first game (£2 on steam sale) and it’s blown me away!
Frostpunk 1 = This War of Mine crossed with a city builder.
Frostpunk 2 = Anno 1877: Arctic Edition.
I played the crap out out of Frostpunk 1 because it was such an innovative take on the city builder genre with a great story, setting, gameplay, soundtrack and just evyerything. Frostpunk 2 feels generic like Ubisoft or EA made it. It's a city builder in the arctic. Big whoop. Now go and stack adjacency bonuses for the next three hours until your game crashes at week 1,000.
It’s weird how often beloved intimate and personal stories of games…become EPIC but impersonal and comparatively trivial in the sequels.
Darkest Dungeon comes to mind
@@GeraltofRivia22 man it's so sad how it became I literally couldn't play more than 2 hours before getting bored even though I played darkest dungeon so much
Seems to be a common theme with pretty much everything. A restaurant, a content creator, a game/movie franchise. Success leads to scale. Which leads to impersonality and lack of soul.
Perfectly said and simple. "Lost its soul" that made us care about the survivors in the first game. Its a shame because Frost Punk 2 looks SOOOOO good graphically. I LOVE the UI design of the second game :(
Thanks. I just finished my first play-through of FP1, and you are correct; I was fully invested in every decision and outcome. When I saw FP2, I felt I may have lost my feelings for FP1, and your commentary confirms what I thought. So, I am now on the fence about whether I should purchase FP2.
It's like watching my RGB lights in my desktop surrounded with white light.
The little that I've played it Frostpunk 2 seems more like Surviving Mars than Frostpunk.
Surviving Mars from the base game era or the mess it turned into after all the DLC?
I dont like city builders, no matter how many times I try to get into them, i just quit. Frostpunk is the only game that i played and that too a lot because of all the reasons you mentioned, you felt a connection with the people and the city which was cool and motivated you to make a nice place for them to survive. Everything i have seen in Frostpunk 2 reminds me of why i don’t like city builders. Needless to say, i havent purchased this game yet even though i waited for it for so long. Kinda sad tbh, oh well, i can always fire-up endless extreme rifts and have a blast on the OG frostpunk
Your original Frostpunk review is what made me sub to the channel years ago and I've been watching ever since. Frostpunk 1 is one of my favourite games ever so am tempted not even to give this a go because I know I'll be disappointed.
It lost survival element. I didn't buy it because I saw it and immediately knew it's frostpunk only in name...
Half the game is clicking different menus. It's more a manager than an RTS city builder.
I actually agree with everything you said about the charm and intimacy of the original being lost but I think I might pick it up anyway because it looks like a pretty decent empire building strategy game in its own right. I'll just have to try and make myself forget that its supposed to be a Frostpunk sequel and in that goal it failed miserably.
Having never played Frostpunk 1, I can say that it was fun trying to frantically figure out how to solve the problems they throw at you but you're right, it was just staring at a still picture almost with pretty lights. But damn those hours flew by before I got kicked out of the city lol.
Bummer!:( The district design reminded me of Civ6 which I still haven't stuck with long enough to enjoy the way I did hundreds of hours of Civ5.
the honesty in every one of your reviews is amazing to see, keep up the fantastic work, by far my most trusted reviewer
Frostpunk 1 was a different experience as a survival game. The stress to keep your people alive without a real combat threat was different but immersive
Tldr: I liked Frostpunk 1 better too.
UI was a bit annoying in regard that it wasnt clear which buildings went where and similar stuff. Also noticed some bugs.
I really wanted to enjoy the whole politics stuff, but there was too much stuff happening on the side, those laws came off as annoying duty rather than enjoyable experience.
Maybe if you only had to pass laws, create some kind of advanced political hierarchy and see how it impacted the city growth it would've been more interesting.
Idk it just didnt feel like a "city". The roads were all over the place, every building looked the same, you couldn't see actual people doing stuff, it didnt feel alive to me.
The way on Frostpunk 1 everyone woke up and went to work just felt so real, the way snow melted near the generator felt real. You're not getting any of this here.
Also the ending was so much better on Frostpunk 1 (when they showed a timelapse of your city).
It's not a bad game, but unfortunately didn't live up to high expectations.
I can understand why they choose to go with this style for the continuation since it's nice to see that through our actions we created a future where civilization can survive and thrive but I agree with Mac.
I can still remember my perfect "no death + no extremes" game where I had to struggle with morale and when that final storm hit I was just looking at the screen hoping that my people will survive. I didn't worry about food or coal since I got plenty but my people had to survive.
And as the cold got worse and worse, the mighty furnace was overheating, the mines collapsing and more and more people would get sick I was imagining the lone Captain not in the comfort of his office but outside with his people. Seeing them get sicker and sicker yet still working to keep the mighty furnace running until, finally, after hours of agonizing frost they started to feel the warm embrace of the furnace yet again.
The Storm Has Passed and everyone survived.
I don't think they can pull something like that with this one but I hope they will for at the end of the day: THE CITY MUST SURVIVE!
P.S: I kinda dislike that there is very little continuity with this one. Yes you can choose the "path" that you went for in the last game (duty vs faith) but it's not clear if you canonically went for the extreme (Obedience To The Captain or death) or Moral (Don't go full authorian) side of that path.
Hey Mac, love the videos, honesty and directness with your vids.
One thing that I think might be useful is to specify your rig with a tiny bit more detail. Saying you "have an i9" doesn't really cover your specs accurately. What you have is a 9900K. I only say this as the gaming performance between an i9 9900K and an i9 14900K is pretty significant, even though they are both i9 tier CPUs. It will help the average person understand the age of your rig more accurately. "I have a 9900K, 32GB RAM, RTX 2080" 😃.
Keep up the good work!
Bold move from the developers. Looking forward to trying it on console when it's released on gamepass there
Frostpunk without the morality of playing with people's lives and making those hard decisions doesn't work.
i mean FP1 i didnt care for the people too, first thing childs labor and triage makes the game alot easier, in the end its numbers and you have to make the city survive. in FP2 the numbers are larger, and yes we care less, thats how humans work. 100 sick who cares, 100 died who cares, but then 300 missing, and you are 200 short in workforce, but you need the resources and its spiraling
Yet the game is a success in both critics rating and in steam reviews
I think most frostpunk fans feel this way about this game. It is decent but we all just wanted a frostpunk 1.5 similar to the original. The feel of the game is lost
If you remember it was hard to create robots in FP1, in FP2 they are everywhere that makes no sense, FP2 is utter rubbish.
They took the best aspect of Frostpunk, threw it to the bin and started from scratch. It feels as if this was made by another dev team with Frostpunk IP.
If they want to build upon the lore, that the city survived the big frost and grew big, then just make the player take care of a single district within a big city then. The premise of this sequel would then be: the city grew too fast and in our complacent, we forgot how we made thru the big frost. As player, we would be competing with other districts for resources and survival, the campaign would walk us through each different kind of district in the quest for survival, housing district, extraction district, food district,... Each would have its own unique challenges and features for players to deal with, keeping it fresh and sequel worthy while maintaining the soul of the original that many of us seek.
Totally agree it's important to see the citizens go about their day- go to their workplace, work and them returning home after a long shift.
"Stoked" is the perfect description for how you felt, considering keeping the furnace running is a major aspect of the game. 😂
What's disappointing about Frostpunk 2 is that it could of been so much better, with just a few tweaks. They lost the soul of the game, and turned it into a shallow 1995 sim city builder except somehow worse, and lost the hard push and pull of surviving, and helping your people move society and civilization forward.
It didn't need to be dumbed down as much as it was, or all the immersion taken away, like those tractors spawning in and out when you're clearing areas, or people phasing in and out of existence.
Thank you for your honest and in-depth review
There was an intimacy about having a kid's mom asking to feed her kids. In the demo of new one, I didn't even know the MPs name that wanted me to make a dumb decision, so I could get his faction's support in the next vote. The humanity was abstracted away. I was shocked after games like Frostpunk 1, and This War of Mine, which made you deal with consequences.
I've revisited Frospunk 1 last winter and it was great, will play it again this winter as doing it when is cold and snowy outside gives it a nice plus. Just before we get to KC2.
Thank you. You just saved me some money and I can just replay FP1 if the need arises.
I heard another reviewer say "They couldn't make FP2 a city builder because FP1 was a city builder. That would have just been a copy of FP1". I had to facepalm at that. Anno, City Skylines, SIM CITY ffs.... So many franchises in the city builder genre with sequels that are still city builders. Just blew my mind hearing him say that.
the first one had actual people you could see you city grow ,and when they died it meant so much more , hoping i enjoy it still
You received a key from the developer and criticized the product in all honesty. Big respect to both.
The mechanics in this game are far better than the original. The scenarios are much more technically challenging and present the player far more options with which to achieve their objective. While in the first game you couldn't repeal laws, which was a great decision from the standpoint that difficult choices made early should have long term consequences, I really appreciate how in FP2 you can but this is balanced against causing severe internal strife. All of this leads to a mechanically more fun and interesting experience evidenced by the fact that the utopia mode in FP2 is far more fun, challenging and engaging than FP1's endless mode. In this way, I really appreciate how the developers have completely changed the game while making it feel much like the original.
However, the main story is nowhere near as interesting, compelling or immersive as in the first game. There is only one scenario out now and the focus is no longer on survival but thriving which was a very intentional choice. I do feel something has been lost, as I am no longer packing a dreadnought to flee a doomed city, sending aid in a last ditch effort to save human lives, or bracing for a ridiculously cold whiteout that feels like it lasts forever as the music swells and I know everyone is huddled up together in my just in time constructed housing. I think one thing that makes the first game much more atmospheric is the day/night cycle where you see your city lit up overnight in the glow of the generator.
Anyway, if you just play through the campaign then what Mac said is 100% correct. If you start sinking hours into the utopia builder and trying to optimized your city, you will find this a much more rewarding experience than the fist game.
Hope Falls
Discontent Rises.
Frostpunk 2 - 2024
Frostpunk 1: People matter. The city matters.
Frostpunk 2: For the emperor!
Haven't played it but my impressions from what I've seen are the same as yours. A big part of frostpunk was the feeling of your city expanding and getting past those milestones. Getting your first automaton, finally being able to man a factory. There doesn't seem to be that feeling of scarcity in frostpunk 2, which makes some sense thematically. But it also makes the game look a lot less interesting
This feels like a 3X game disguised as a city builder, (4X but minus the exterminate and AI factions). The way you need to exploit and manage resources on the map, juggle different mechanics, as a Civ and endless space player, it feels oddly familiar. Would be interesting to see an actual 4X game, where the culture of New London is determined by your playstyle and you basically play to recreate civilization in the frostlands whilst competing with other factions with their own culture.
Yes you lose out on the immersion, especially compared to the more intimate scale the first game, but no one's going to be looking for that in a 4X game. I say the devs succeeded in not rehasing the first game, I can understand why some people might get upset that the "soul" of the first game is now gone. But in my opinion, it's always better to try something new, even if it upsets some people.
I still love to play Frostpunk on xbox, literally the only game I happily keep going back to
"The death of one is a tragedy, the death of million's just a statistic."
You know, it would be funny if the scaling and politics were an attempt on social commentary, lol.
Frostpunk 2 made roleplay Starmer.
A few thousand OAP's just froze to death!
"they were native, who cares"
Frostpunk’s gripe you cannot zoom in too close into citizens, this one is even further zoomed out. What the fick?
All you would see is low resolution textures at this scale, or you would need a lot more storage and a powerhouse of a gpu
Funny had the same feeling. Really good game, just somehow lacking the hook. Got to 3'd mission before I just moved on.
Shame really, as everything seems improved on. It just can't grab my attention for some reason.
Love your videos MAC keep it up bro!!!
I don't really care what anyone really says about the game, I just find it terrible. It's a completely different experience, it's not fun. People say oh what you wanted "more of the same". Yes, I wanted Frostpunk 1 with new mechanics on a grander scale. This is a different game with a frostpunk skin. It doesn't play similar, it doesn't feel similar, it just looks similar. I couldn't get into it, I'm glad I pirated it and didn't purchase it.
Same here brother, torrented the beta in April, uninstalled within 20 minutes. I really hoped it would be better when released but nope. A dictator simulator with democracy theme politics makes no sense. They should have gone and made us mayor of a single district and compete with other districts for survival instead.
I haven't played Frostpunk but I feel your pain Mack. It's a terrible feeling when a game you're excited for doesn't gel with you.
In Frostpunk 1 I felt dread of not knowing if I have enough coal for the night while I watched the people go to their cozzy home or hunting for the scarce food.
In Frostpunk 2 I couldn't tell day from night, or any sense of passage of time.
I'm seriously thinking in refunding that game
I always appreciate your brutal reviews! It keeps the gaming industry honest! Thank you mate!
It would be good if Mac would say what he would have been happy with, and had a discussion about sequels and what they should offer.
Lightning never strikes the same spot twice.