CafeSing Orca | This Could Be The Ultimate Hand Grinder
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- Hand grinders are an interesting niche market within the already niche market of coffee gear. Personally, I've never been a big on manual grinders, but every once in awhile one comes along that draws my curiosity and gives me the barista tingles, and the CafeSing Orca is one of those grinders. Not only is it set up for flat burrs, which is extremely rare, but it has two sets, a bimodal and a ghost.
Chapters
[00:00] Intro
[01:07] Quick Overview
[02:54] Usability & Performance
[05:45] Quirks & Downsides
[07:05] Final Thoughts
Learn more about this video's topic.
CafeSing: cafesing.com/products/orca-gr...
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Hey everyone, here’s a statement from CafeSing regarding the similarities of the Potu grinder others have pointed out:
“Hi guys, we want to clarify two points:
1. The flat burr hand grinder was a collaborative development between us and POTU.
2. POTU will transition to electric grinders and no longer offer flat burr hand grinders.”
That response-plus the strangely-worded language on their website, and the fact that the address listed for them on the Colorado Secretary of State's business lookup is for a registered agent-just throws up more red flags for me.
Assuming that this is some kind of collaboration and not just someone drop-shipping grinders from overseas vendors, why would anybody buy directly from them and not just go on AE and get the same grinder for $100 less?
Between Potu seemingly releasing a new hand grinder that also uses 49mm "ghost" burrs, and minimal re-branding (a silicone band and 1 lazer etched part), CafeSing is really looking like a high priced white-label brand.
Has anyone heard of this brand before to contradict this? (I'm happy to remove my comment if so)
@@ianguile7214 I think I got one of those on the way, I never tried a ghost burr before so should be interesting, hopefully as good as this one seems, and better than the cheap electric ghost burr grinders which probably spin at 2000rpm heh.
Just want to note how good your production values are. Makes concentrating on the information easier when the music is subtle, the pacing calm and the editing smooth.
Thank you.
Thank you, I appreciate that. Always trying to improve and keep a pace and balance in all visual and audio.
This is definitely an interesting product. If I were someone who used a hand grinder for all my grinding (pour-over & espresso), I could see this being worth it, easily. I’m always amazed how much progression we’ve seen in the coffee world in the past 6 or 7 years, and I’m glad this channel has been around to keep me up to date on so much of it.
The ghost burr option makes this very enticing and i feel like that price isn’t bad at all considering that the pietro is way more.
Yeah I think flat burrs already is pretty appealing in a portable platform, and the second set is like icing on top.
Great video man!!! Like you I don’t use a hand grinder very often but the Orca has been my favorite!
This is such a cool hand grinder. Ty for making this video Spro
seems cool, I like it comes with the pair of flats by default too. nice!
Hand grinders are great.....when travelling 😉
Finally bought a super compact Timemore Nano, and I am happy with it. But at home I love electric ⚡
The grinder reminded me of a Grindmaster I used at a previous job for cupping. It had similar burrs for the filter, had a cool even grind!
Yeah old Grindmaster and some older Mahlkonigs and I’m sure some others used ghost tooth style burrs. Interesting how it’s making its way back around and in home grinders now.
Thanks for your review. Very informative for us that hand grind. I have learned the importance of particle size and consistency through your videos but couldnt afford a quality electric grinder so these are the next best. 1Zpresso was new when I was looking so I got one of their mid priced ones and have been happy with it. It has a quality machined body with conical burrs that has exterior adjustments. Use it for both espresso and moka pot
You’re welcome and thanks for watching. And yeah, I’ve heard great things about the 1Zpresso but have yet to try one. Perhaps that’ll be one I’ll use in the future.
@@Sprometheus the J-Max is espresso-focused and has a step resolution of 8.8 microns. You might find that model to be interesting to play with!
I had a Premula hand grinder. I liked it pretty well . This that you have here is well engineered and Im going to go out on lim and say its probable that the Cafesingh is the best coffee grinder in the world to date. Thats just my gut reaction. I hope I can buy one. I think It would make me very happy.Thanks for excellant review.!😅
Thank you so much for the review. This has been a very interesting product indeed. In your experience, how many clicks are usable for espresso? Are there enough clicks for dialing in?
Have yourself a great weekend.
Thank you my friend.
Thank you my friend, you as well!
Love me some good perfromance 😉
So as not to be that guy who only comments on a spelling error: I've been watching your videos for years, you are one of the few coffee creators that it does not matter what you cover, I'm here for it. Thank you!
Hi Spro, great video. I'm considering aDF64v, and trying SSP burrs, maybe Cast Sweets. What IS sweetness in the cup, i finally want to taste. But these ghost burrs might have sweetness too. What do you suggest?
One reviewer seemed to have the Sing' handle slip off a bit while grinding.
Can the ghost burrs do well for v60? how slow is it to grind 30 gms at v60 ground size? (for a Clever). Thank you kindly Spro.
You painstakingly create such calming videos about caffeinated beverages!
Looks great and thanks for expanding your hand grinding content! I am obsessed with manual grinders and brewers. The external dial is absolutely delightful but nearly ruined by the fine threads on the catch cup. Arguably it is the piece you will be interacting with nearly the most and having to thread and unthread them constantly is annoying. Chunky quarter turn threads, magnets, or other novel joining methods are very popular and achieve better results. To be lacking these types of premium features is softened by the unique burr sets it comes with, but I would like to see a generation or two ahead of this design.
Yeah I think magnets or some other quick release for the dosing cup would be a huge improvement to the workflow. Im sure CafeSing will be reading these comments so perhaps they’ll put that into consideration.
Especially a magnetic catch cup. To me, since it has several things needing to be screwed off, having a magnetic catch cup is essential.
Those those that hand grind, a tip is to sit in a chair and hold the grinder between your knees. It makes grinding dramatically easier. I keep thinking about building a clamp on my kitchen counter, but I think my wife would veto it :-) It would be interesting to see if the flat burr would work as well using my method (since the grinder is totally vertical).
Does it have in between steps?
When is the bottom “fine / rough” adjuster used? At changing burrs and calibrating them, I suppose.
Did you find the grind setting shifting during grinding at all? The adjustment ring seems to slip with the lightest, inadvertent contact.
Hi... between the bimodal and ghost burrs, which had more resistsnce in grinding for say the same grindsize?
I have the Kinu M47 and Pietro and happy w both.
I have the Kinu M47, is there much difference in taste between the two for espresso?
I got a cheaper possibly cousin of this grinder that's just a ghost burr (non branded but I've also seen one that's identical but with POTU on it).
I find it gives me a lot of fines, they don't seem to affect the taste though besides potentially clogging up the pour-over filters and extending the brew time.
One characteristic of it I noticed is that it lacks acidity or brightness, it's different and can be nice, but I'm finding its kinda hollow feels like it's missing something without any brightness or acidity. Interesting your ghost burr grinder doesn't give the same effect.
I also got a Timemore C2 and 1zPresso Zp6 which I like a lot more, both nicer to use too.
Anyone know if this would be good for grinding light roast espresso which needs to be quite fine?
How does this grinder do for light roast? I have a a JMAX which is excellent- except for light roasts- can barely turn the handle. Thanks.
Thank you.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching Alan.
Are the burrs always making a touching sound for you? I recently did a burr alignment test and got partial dry erase marker wipes even at the coarsest setting. Is that how it should be or should I be contacting CafeSing?
Great video! I see a df64 gen 2 in the background, are you making a review?
Thank you! And yeah, currently testing that one for review in the coming weeks
I’m interested in this as well. Thanks, it would be really nice to get a hand grinder to df comparison comment
does it uses the same hex nut like the one used for most other hand grinder? My trick with my 1zpresso is to connect it to a wireless drill to make the process of grinding easier.
Yeah it does, you can definitely connect a drill if you want.
How long did it take you to grind through an espresso dose on the bimodal, and a filter dose for the orea on the ghosts? Appreciate this varies based on beans
Definitely the big questions
I'm surprised nobody big has reviewed the Knob. Love the coffee it makes but grinding takes forever with that. Kid you not...3min for an 18g shot but 15min for turkish😂
For espresso it wasn’t much different than a conical, from 50 seconds to 1 minute 10 seconds keeping up a solid pace and not switching hands or anything and of course dose dependent. Filter on the ghosts, maybe about 30-45 seconds or so. I did a few different roasts/varieties but didn’t notice any major swings in grind time.
@@veganpottertheveganOuch! My J-MAX is about 3-5 times faster than that for the examples you gave.
@@coreycannon4511 yeah, the j-max is crazy quick for some reason, and the burrs are 1mm smaller than the orca. I can get 18g out on espresso in around 25-30 seconds, and the same on filter in about 15-20 seconds. given that, ive been grinding coffee manually for the last 2 and a half years, so ive got pretty strong hands as a result of that, meaning that i can grind faster due to fewer slips in the hand when meeting resistance. definitely interesting to see how it compares though
Now I need this vs the ZP6… hopefully you or Lancey pants will do that video soon.
How does the Orca compare to the 1ZPresso J- MAX?
Like the concept for sure, but it may not be the most consistent from unit to unit.
It doesn't have great reviews on Amazon regarding the build quality. And on the other end of the spectrum there are folks that love it and have rated it pretty highly.
I would be curious to see what they can achieve on a future V2 model.
Just got mine. I love the ghost tooth burrs. It has its quirks but is about as close to a happy medium of exceptional grind quality, good workflow, and price as I've seen on the market so far. I get why people love the ZP6, but it doesn't work as well for some of the brewers I use (SOFI 72 among them).
I've been liking the ZP6 Special, I have a similar ghost burr hand grinder coming so I should be able to compare soon!
@@BensCoffeeRants I don't like the ZP6 for metal-filtered stuff like the SOFI 72. What brand is your ghost burr grinder?
@@144avery interesting. I haven't actually tried zp6 with anything but paper filtered coffees. Actually I did do a cupping once or twice I'm sure. Seemed to do fine!
The ghost burr hand grind I've seen it labelled as Potu but mine was unlabeled shop description says Fuwoda. The box just says Better coffee better life. Lol and Manual Coffee grinder.
@@144averyI haven't compared with zp6 yet but so far taste from the ghost burrs seems nice and sweet. There's not much acidity or brightness which some people may or may not like. Very tea like. I did notice a good amount of fines on mine which I thought ghost burrs weren't supposed to have. It has a conical pre breaker which may be the cause of that. It also has the same slow feeding that zp6 does. It's a little harder to grind too but not too bad.
@@BensCoffeeRants odd, the Orca has an auger but not a pre-breaker. Very few fines. Decent but not exceptional acidity (round, not sharp)...same goes for flavor separation. Gobs of sweetness with the right brew method and water, though.
Cafesing told me that the Orca was a collaboration between them and Potu.
Maybe I need to recalibrate the ZP6. I mainly tried it with metal-filtered drip brewing and it definitely had plenty of fines that tasted velvety and pretty pleasant.
2:53 Perf-Romance
one of the best hand grinders should have to play 😂
Does the ghost burr have the capability of grinding espresso-fine?
no
Interesting that aramse had a very different take on it
Interesting, BUT... I use a J-Max for espresso and it's 8.8um clicks are just great for espresso: I sometimes adjust by a single click, but I don't feel the need for stepless and I chop and change coffees from one grind to the next. But due to the conical burr angle, and simplistic vertical adjustment spec, the J-max actually adjusts it's burr gap in incredible 2.5um increments!
I really struggle to believe that 18um actual burr gap adjustments (as flat burr translates vertical adjustment directly into gap adjustment) would be anywhere near fine enough to live with for espresso.
1Zpresso undersell themselves badly, with Commandante, Mazzer, Knock all taking burr taper angle into account when specifying their adjustments. The ultra affordable KINGrinder K4 slaughters all those with it's 4.6um burr gap adjustment (half that of an Aergrind and a quarter of that of a C40 with RedClix), but the 1Zpresso J-Max is presently the stepped fine adjustment espresso focussed champion of the hand grinder world at 2.5um closure per click!
Thanks for the review. I have had a had grinder with a bottom that needs to be screwed on and unscrewed. The 1zpresso I have now has magnets. Much more enjoyable. At 8:45 of your video you have an espresso cup I like! Where might I find those? Thanks again.
Have you tried the Brazilian made Bravita hand grinder?
It's "Bravito" the nickname. The real name is Bravo IT.
I dont have it, but know a lot of guys who has it, and it's one of the best hand grinders existing for espresso, in same level of Kinu M47.
@@athoscarvalho7467 How does it compare to the J-Max?
@@jakobw135Most of one I heard here in Brazil who compared both, preferred the results of Bravito. Besides the fact it's stepless on grind settings.
How much do these burs cost to make? I can't understand why such a thing should cost 300 usd. Or 250. Or 200. Or 150.
Can this be used with a cordless drill (like 1zpresso)?
from the looks of the it yes you could do it thanks to the hexagon shape. Do so at your own risk
yes you can, I feel like I mentioned it but I may have forgot.
Very interesting, although I'm still wondering who really uses a handgrinder to make espresso. I use a 1zpresso kmax daily for pourovers, which has a particulary long crank handle and grinding for espresso is a pretty physical process, even by prebreaking the breans beforehand.
I use a KMax on a daily basis 1 - 3 times 17g for spro. I love it. It's a bit slower than the JX (40s vs. 30s), but easier to grind. And the external adjustment dial is really nice.
Daily espresso hand grinder here :)
K6 user here, it's a decent morning workout
I use a K-Max for daily espresso, however I find I use a darker roast for my espresso, and keep the lighter roasts for my AeroPress. Grinding light roast fine enough is a bit of a workout.
Haha as you can see there are many who do it. It’s not really my idea of a good time, but there are plenty morning masochists out there.
About how long does it take to swap the burrs? If it’s more than a minute or two, I’d say it’s more gimmick than anything. Especially if it’s somewhat frustrating to zero after a swap.
Cafesing has short videos of the swap on the website. Not a gimmick. Fairly easy. Not clear why it was claimed to be hard to re-zero..? Any thoughts? I just turn it to burr touch with the outside adjustment dial. It might be the internal dial on the bottom that tightens the spring needs a different setting sometimes. Idk.
@@davidlogan2682 thank you!
I wonder how it would fair compared to the 1zpresso KMax!
Not exactly how it would, but I’d venture a guess that decently well. But I think the big difference is going to be coffee produced from flat and ghost burrs will be significantly different than conical.
Perfromance
Can't imagine it's better than my Pietro with brew burrs.
I'd guess orca has better price/performance ratio
@@bohdaaanek seems to be about the same price
@@Adam-vx6to Here I can't find this grinder anywhere Looks like maybe $400 Canadian on amazon from sketchy re-sellers (probably inflated pricing) The Pietro is like $600 Canadian, both too much for a hand grinder, although I have A Weber HG-2 which isn't the best value either but it's also art :D
USALIBITU AND PREFROMNACE
Bought into the hype of ghost teeth profile so picked up an Orca. Ran plenty of excellent coffee through the thing. I tend toward the more developed end of American light, so lots of Sweet Bloom, Little Waves, Mother Tongue, Heart etc.
Across the entire spectrum of brew methods, it never did anything better than a regular old K series burr, and the UX left plenty to be desired as well.
Do not recommend.
☕☕☕
Love Is Important 💘❤ ....
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Indeed my friend! Cheers!
18 micron per click is too big. I have a 1zpresso that does 8.8 micron and still wish I could have half a step.
For easier grinding, just attach an electric screwdriver 🫡
Otherwise known as a drill
@@Sprometheus that word completely slipped my mind. it was like saying 'petrol suitcase' when you couldn't remember the word 'jerrycan'