People that carry should take personal responsibility to stay current with their carry weapon. That said, governmental mandatory is tantamount to a gateway to “infringement“.
Great discussion, gentlemen. For what it's worth, my opinion (retired LEO, military, firearms instructor, and perpetual student of tactics) all concealed carriers need to know the laws of their state regarding use of force, self-defense, etc FIRST. Shooting, tactics...all that is cool, fun and absolutely necessary, but knowing WHEN TO/WHEN NOT TO use deadly force is the most important knowledge to have. After that....training...training...training. Which brings up my second point...police departments don't want to train non-LEOs in active shooter response for two reasons...1) liability and 2)the attitude of "It's our job to stop the threat, not your's. You just sit there and die until we, the professionals, get there." And I'm saying this as a retired LEO from a big city PD that still pays to attend training classes in order to keep up my skill set. I talk to officers all the time and without exception that is their attitude...just my $0.02 worth. Stay safe. Stay armed.
Thank you for your comments! We certainly concur about the training aspect of this topic and preparing before you find yourself in one of these critical situations. Stay safe!
As said, education on YOUR state laws BEFORE gun use is the most important thing to do before you use a gun in self-defense. I just had an hour long conversation with my attorney on this subject. He said all gun owners should do as I did.He was a former sheriff and currently an auxiliary officer and police officer trainer.
I agree. A mandatory class requirement for obtaining a Concealed Carry Permit is here in Virginia. I will say that the "instruction" in my class was elementary. The class lasted only an hour, and there was nowhere near enough time spent on the laws regarding the legally justifiable use of force. It is incumbent on the citizen gun owner to educate him or herself on the matter as much as possible. In a worst-case scenario, when a citizen is required to use lethal force with a firearm, mental breakdowns, mistakes, and uncertainty can be more dangerous to your life, the lives of other innocents, and to your personal freedom than the violent criminal assailant(s).
I am ex-military and current NRA instructor/Paramedic, I firmly agree with the original post, training is such a vital necessity for everyone that carries and unfortunately if the individual is not willing to take the initiative then the law makers need to. American needs trained citizens assisting law enforcement, not hindering them with their lack of knowledge or naive experience.
Given our constitutional right to keep and bear arms, it is governmental gross negligence that gun safety training is not mandatory in all public schools.
It should be mandatory for anyone carrying a gun in public. All law enforcement officers have to go through weeks of training so why wouldn't we? Aren't we supposed to be well regulated? Well regulated means to be ready, trained and outfitted with the tools we need.
Let’s remember that most police officers never discharge their weapons in the line of duty and aren’t automatically an Operative just because they have a few weeks on a range then given less legal responsibility than the general public. It’s the responsibility of every person who carries a firearm to train to the best of their abilities and know the laws that govern their actions.
As a woman, I have had to roll play MY reaction to an event. I never want to harm another person BUT I have made the commitment ... to do what was neccesary to protect my life and the other people around me. Mind Set and practiced muscle memory is important.
Great discussion! As a citizen who trains regularly, I wish some of the tax dollars from firearms purchases would be applied to offer classes to the masses as part of their ownership
OFFER CLASSES,,,AS PART OF THEIR GUN OWNERSHIP? OH, you mean, MAKE THE TRAINING MANDATORY, don't you? Otherwise, what's the point? And who would keep that money and use it for that "optional training"? What would keep them from pocketing that money? And how much do you think. gun buyers would pay EXTRA, for a gun? NOPE, THAT sounds like MORE gun control. FYI, the 2A does NOT say,"The People have the right to keep and bear arms,as long as they train, as part of their gun ownership".
@C3Pathways The right to keep & bear arms is a constitutional right. Training (I'm a strong proponent of force on force to get a taste of that 0 to 10 adrenalin dump) is the responsibility of the firearm owner. The LAST place I want my training to come from is the same folks who brought us the IRS and DMV. The armed citizen's responsibility is to seek out: 1. How to fight with a weapon (not just shoot it) 2. A scenario based medical class 3. Well designed force on force class. IMHO, anything less is an inadequate foundation to build on. Thanks for the interesting discussion.
Voluntary training is great. Getting any kind of permit based on training is wrong. We don’t need a DMV type set of hoops to jump through with all the red tape and forms.
I’m glad this question came up! As an older man I would really like to see more people step up and train us who want the training. I live in Idaho and I fire a lot of rounds down range.
Well done. Very good thought provoking information. I CC and understand and have made the commitment that you talk about. I don't shoot that much but I practice drawing and aquiring a target every day.
This would be great information to have in open forum. I have trained more people and have been training people for over 50 years. I think this would be better discussion if you had those of us who carry in on the video too. You all made lots of good points but are short on concepts complete explanations. I know time is limited, but more needs discussed. Of course, you all know this too.
@crystalr7602 it does seem there is never enough time to discuss the things we all want to know more about. We appreciate your feedback and looks like we may need to have a Part 2 of this topic in the future. Keep watching!
My police acadamy in 1989, the Loma Prieta, Calif earth quake mid way in the acadamy. Many cadets who were sent to the school by a department, they went out ,after class to assist their departments. Thankfully no shots were fired. In the end, it was good that cadets did not go out armed, loaded. At graduation, some graduates were terrible and barely able to hit a target at all. Most were pre-trained military and police reserve. And that was a very competitive class, according to instructors. I ran away with the 'top gun' status. It is very very obvious that a person cannot get enough training. Non police , the laws are a must. Getting rid of bravado, 'big gun, big man syndrome' and words like 'kill', 'had to kill...', 'shoot to kill' should be erased from the mind.
I've trained much more as a citizen than I did as a deputy. There's a lot of good training available and independent training aids, I use to practice regularly and reduce ammo costs. Don't get shot by a cop arriving on scene. Don't get involved unless absolutely necessary.
Thank you for the comment. We all wish we had more training time and our law enforcement professionals had unlimited training time and resources. Unfortunately this is not the case and like you, we have to do our own training and practice. It certainly takes a commitment! Stay safe and keep watching!
Well explained. A question rather than anything that has troubled me is why, as law enforcement who are required to carry and use lethal devices as part of their job, they are not certifying at least annually, if not quarterly. I've read that reports published indicate your target hit rate is at best 1 in 4 shots. That means 3 of every 4 shots fired hit something/someone other than what was targeted. This is not meant as criticism of the officers, but as you indicated it is a perishable skill. Should there be a class of officers not required to carry a weapon? Should you be allowed to work if you can not certify? These are basically the same concerns you presented about the armed citizens. Should law enforcement agencies be required to offer free public training you would like the citizens to have. Not just firearms but first aid, etc? So you can get to know the people who are concealed carrying.
Great questions and comments @MrZachzippo! Although it varies by state and local jurisdiction, law enforcement officers are typically required to qualify either annually, semi-annually or even quarterly (most if not all federal agencies require quarterly). Hit rates certainly vary as well as deadly force encounters are very dynamic, both for law enforcement officers and citizens. As discussed in the session, law enforcement agencies struggle to keep up training for their own staff without the burden of also providing tactical training for members of the community. You have a great point about getting to know and creating relationships with those in our communities who are legally carrying a weapon. If you have not, we would encourage you to attend your local police or sheriffs citizen police academy. These are great opportunities to get to know each other. Thanks for the comment and keep watching!
As an armed Citizen and one who has participated in firearms training at the same locations as LEO's, I have learned most Citizens who hone their skills with 8 to 12 hundred rounds yearly are superior to our hired help. Additionally, most LEO are more concerned with "officer safety" which makes them more likely to gravitate towards making a friendly fire error. Lastly, it is in the nature of LEO's to possess an "I'm superior" authoritarian mindset, which catapults them into the armed and dangerous category. Bottomline, the police have no lawful duty to protect Citizens, and at the same time, they possess no more or higher lawfull authority to engage in a battle with "the bad guy" over a private Citizen. Whoever is present at the time of a CODE RED situation, LEO or Citizen, if they have enough moxie, they morally should engage and stop the criminal pronto. BTW: I was the Range Master at American Firearms & Safty Academy from 1979 through 1987. (Jeff Cooper would have fully agreed with me. He personally trained me in Pauldin Arizona.)
I get the whole cautionary tale about untrained civilians, but I know if there were any or many stories of this sort it would have made national news when they -2a media we have. I know it has to happen, but if it's so few and far between that even the media doesn't cover it, I think we would be safer by arming all the good guys. I am ex 82nd airborne and have ran a private Cadet program for about 9 years now and I would feel much more comfortable with fellow teachers that also were armed.
Excellent video, gentlemen I have longed for a neutral medium with comments from law-enforcement and the instructors. You are just those gentleman. I have a better perspective now thank you for your time. I acquired a concealed carry permit in a state of Arizona for my own benefit and well-being.
I think training is critical, but the reason most people can not get training is that it is way too expensive for most people . I have had extensive training . But I can tell you that it is way overpriced for what you get. And until a better cost solution is available, you will find untrained people carrying .
I agree. I am self taught for the most part and I have had some individual training, not anything professional, just some weekend training from a guy that I worked with that is a retired State Trooper. I feel that I am prepared and educated enough to carry in the public from the years of personal range time and extensive gun handling. I see some of these people open carrying and it worries me to be honest. The lack of self awareness, the crappy equipment and the sloppy way of carrying.
It is unfortunate that a lot of training is very expensive. As a previous person referenced, there are gun clubs and associations that are relatively inexpensive to join that can offer great training opportunities. In a perfect world everyone would have access to great training and take the responsibility of carrying a concealed (or open carry) weapon seriously. Thank you for the comments!
Scary stuff. I don't carry much because of this. If you follow the rules, then you're in a good spot to neutralize the threat with minimal possibility of collateral. Being able to pull the trigger is a different story...
I'm all for this training - I'm a certified firearms trainer myself, however, there's a problem with some police personnel who make like they're God himself and are threatening themselves especially in an after shooting scenario. You all say you don't know how someone's going to react i.e. armed person, well, we don't know how you're going to act and how do we know you're a good guy? It looks like you're wearing a uniform but is it real? Seriously! Looks real and many bad guys have uniforms that look real but they're not. You draw a bead on me and that's a threat. I need to guard my life so cops don't take that into consideration either when they show up and when you draw on me, I'm defending against you as a threat to me. Some kind of mutual understanding needs to be established so we both understand each other. Police have no higher rights than I do so we best understand each other. Bad cops don't care. Do police officers surrender their sidearms? NO! Why should I have to surrender mine to police? THAT'S NONSENSE! Just because you all say so? That's not right.
#1 - Build & maintain safety & tactical firearms skills. #2 - Know & stay current on all related laws of every jurisdiction that you frequent in your travels. #3 - Stay in tip-top running shape in case #1 and #2 do not apply... what ever your reason!
Great very informative video gentlemen. As a concealed carrier myself, the first thing I'd like to say is I am not looking to be a hero. If I am in a public place and there is an active shooter situation I don't draw my weapon and go looking for the shooter, I am looking to get the hell outta there any way I can. I say this because of something you all said about being mistakes for the bad guy by the police and getting taken out myself. Might seem callous of my but my first response is everyone else is on their own. On another hand if I am cornered by the shooter, he is drawing down on me or some other innocent person and I have a clear opportunity to take him out I will do so. If I fail to do this how then am i expected to live with myself letting an innocent person die when I had the chance to stop it? I appreciate what good men like yourselves do for us, and no disrespect intended but sometimes the way you pout things leave many of us wondering if maybe we aren't getting the whole story. It was said in the event of a situation out weapon would ne taken temporarily. Question is what exactly does that mean? Does it mean we will get the weapon back as soon as it's decided we won't be charged with murder for defending ourselves or others, or does it mean we will get it back years down the road after a long drawn out investigation? If our weapon is taken does it mean we forfeit our right of self defense and ability to carry another weapon? Are we damned of we do, damned if we don't and guilty until proven innocent? The lack of clarification can cause good people to freeze at a critical moment and that gentlemen, in my opinion, can and does cause innocent people to die
@kennethrisner-c8q you bring up several great points and one that could use some clarification from the session. The response posture you described is spot on with most thinking about armed civilians finding themselves in the middle of an active shooter or other deadly force situation. If you can avoid it, get away. If you can't, you have a legal right to defend yourself and should do so accordingly. Regarding the issue of law enforcement taking a persons weapon after they were involved in a shooting, this is going to vary by state and local jurisdiction. However, as the presenters stated, law enforcement officers who are involved in on-duty shootings always have their weapons taken as evidence until the case is investigated and resolved. Armed citizens who use their weapon to stop a threat will also likely have their firearm taken as evidence pending the outcome of the investigation. This is standard procedure across the United States. Absent some other legal reason, the weapon should be released after the investigation is concluded. Thank you for your comment and keep listening!
@@C3Pathways That's the whole point, until the investigation is over which could mean months or years if there is an over zealous democrat leaning prosecutor. And the question remains, if one weapon is taken or are ALL a person's weapons confiscated?
You are right in that it could be months (very likely) or years. Every situation and jurisdiction is different, however one would think only the weapon used in the incident would be taken as evidence lacking some other criminal investigation. We appreciate the response and comments!
By your own logic shouldn't teachers who undergo serious training be able to carry or at least have a backup firearm in their desk? The main concern is that they aren't trained for it, I figure training the ones who want to carry would be the best option. The risks of not carrying are largely un-discussed here.
For those that choose to go through the paid training to use a firearm in school should be able to have a firearm. That firearm should be in a locked safe in that classroom readily available.
Great discussion and points @ryan-xq3kl, @lawrenceadams6718 and @brett235. Those laws vary state by state and school district by school district in some states. Texas for example has laws allowing school districts to make the local decision about whether or not some of their teachers can be designated "school marshals" or part of the "guardian" program. Both of these also have training requirements with them. Thanks for the conversation!
@@lawrenceadams6718 I agree. In a desk is a terrible idea. If teachers are in the classroom armed there is only one location where the firearm is responsibly located. And that is on the body. Whether that is IWB concealed or outside the waistband (preferably in a retetion holster).
@@C3PathwaysI've participated in the Texas system and met with the folks at TxSSC. They are in as much of a quandary as many other educators as to how to navigate the active shooter subject in schools.
When seconds count the police are minutes away! So this discussion is mute. By the time the police arrive on the scene, everything will be over! When the cop says I support the 2A BUT, they don't support 2A!
I used to think that way until I realized how inept some of the people carrying guns really are. Law enforcement have to take weeks of training and so should we the public defender. It should be mandatory that if we're going to carry a gun we should have to be trained in the laws and use of carrying. The second amendment actually mandates us to train being that we are the militia. Well regulated is the mandate.
Unfortunately you are correct in that police are only minutes away when seconds count! Hopefully any law enforcement officer would appreciate a lawfully carrying civilian who stopped an immediate deadly force threat to save lives. Thanks for the comment!
If you are going. To carry with the CCW You should train at least twice a month. Different scenarios. That's what I go through about 300 rounds a month. I was once told proper prior planning Prevent Piss poor performance
I’m a trainer and a proponent of firearms training 100%. What I find extremely regrettable is the professional discouragement through negative reinforcement by “professionals” of citizens to save their own lives and/or the lives of others. Handguns are 100% safe when in the holster regardless of level of training (Sig 320 possibly excluded). The vast majority of active shooters/and or criminals HAVE HAD NO TRAINING either. The private citizen if they have applied themselves minimally are better trained than the average criminal/active shooter. The often bemoaned “an average citizen has no chance against an active shooter with a long gun” is just not true.
You won’t be thinking about any of the details in the moment I promise you that. You will be totally absorbed into the action of the moment and will only react or not to what means you react is another question which is dependent on what level of preparation you’ve had.
First rule of thumb... In a confrontational interaction, where you feel your lifeay be in danger. DON'T HOLD YOUR WEAPON BY YOUR SIDES IF YOU CANNOT SEE THEIR HANDS CLEARLY... ALSO, YOUR FINGER STAYS ON THE TRIGGER ONE HUNDRED PERCENT
All this is great stuff. I have a carry permit in three states 2 give you some training requirement and the laws. One none whatsoever. We need to make training across all states the same. I shoot every 3 weeks, but I am retired.
Thank you for comment @johncollins5021. Yes, there are certainly differences in training requirements between the states. Thank you for your commitment to training and being ready! Stay safe and keep watching.
No permit and don’t abide by them anyway because rights don’t require permission. I carry anyway and money is well spent on training. You’d be surprised how much you’re lacking in skills if you haven’t taken a class in a long time. The goal should be to be responsible and effective.
I've noticed (observational evidence only, no stats to back it up...) that the more training someone has the more likely they are to feel that training is a good and necessary thing, while those who have little or no training feel that training is unnecessary. I'd call that a conundrum. I belong to the first group and believe I'll never have enough training and I don't look forward to ever being in a situation where I have to draw my gun.
Great perspective @PetrosArgy. NCIER/C3 Pathways is all about training and believe everyone has something to learn or work on in a training environment. Stay safe and keep watching!
You should train as much as you can never stop i have USSCA they can get you the training you need so you can go home at the end of the day great video thank you
Dealing with the public has to be self experienced the tools to deal with that can be learned by others no better teacher then a seasoned law officer such as these videos
Armed teachers need more training than just CCW. But an armed teacher would probably have the threat taken care of long before the police arrive on scene.
Im an armed citizen with more that 250 hrs of trying - low light, confined space, linear space, working around vehicle - inside and outside. Two man room clearing. And have spend literally thousands of hour practice what I’ve been taugh
We agree 100% @longgone9869! Just try to avoid having your gun in your hand when law enforcement arrives....or another legally carrying citizen arrives. That could lead to a catastrophic outcome nobody wants. Keep watching!
Need to know how to load it, rack a round, aim and proper engagement techniques for gun control TONSTAY ON TJE TARHET... And, Squeeze the Trigger, DON'T PULL IT
I'm LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN, I belong to a Gun club for over 20 years, It has to be CONSTITIONAL CARRY!! END OF STORY! If we taxpayers pay for your training, why should we pay? How about FREE Training for LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN!
It would be wonderful if there were free training for citizens who are lawfully carrying a weapon. Until then, it is a commitment by each individual to ensure they are properly trained and ready to take decisive action if a critical incident unfolds around them. Thanks for the comment!
Good conversation. I support the police, I'm a law an order person. Legal repercussions aside, I'll offer my opinion. Police while performing a difficult job, are not special. They are civilians with an interesting job. There should be no exemptions from any laws, not just gun laws. That said, training is important, practice is important and they are not the same thing. Join an IDPA club. Take individual classes. Walk through in your head how to respond to the aftermath of a defensive encounter before it, and hopefully it never does, occurs. One thing I'll disagree on came late in the discussion. Yes first aid and trauma and stop the bleed training, this is for me and any innocents involved. Bad guy's hit it's up to you if you want to render aid, but it's clearly not, as the victim, your responsibility to aid your attacker. 🇺🇸
Thank you for the comment @mikefarmer4748. As you said, training is critical and it is not the same as practice. Mentally rehearse what will happen before, during and after a critical incident. It is difficult for the mind to take you places you have never been, especially under stress. Stay safe and keep watching!
Your gun handling skills must learned to a subconscious level. Your mind will be too involved in the situation at hand to be thinking about the operation of your firearm. Training classes are available for many ex military instructors around the country. As a matter of fact it’s where many police officers go for additional training because they don’t get it from their agency . But the key is to spend your own time practicing what you’ve learned in class. The purpose is to hone your skills which you can’t do in a class because of time restrictions.
I agree that training is necessary for any dangerous situation. BUT the assumption that law enforcement is better trained than some citizens is false. Everyone could benefit from better training in any situation. We allow 16 year old kids to drive a car and put them in a world where they are definitely not prepared for the danger that driving presents. I don’t like the assumption that citizens carrying weapons is a bad thing and every time a law enforcement officer talks about this that comes out. What about the off duty officer or the plain clothes officer. I hear all the time that if a citizen pulls out his weapon he will probably get shot by responding officers. That tells me that officers are not as trained as the assumption implies. Statistically a citizen has never shot anyone but the bad guy but cops have. They have even shot other cops. Truthfully though typically when the active shooter is confronted by another armed person he either give up or shoot’s himself. You have to have a little faith in the public. People know whether they are capable of responding or not. I’m not going to go get in a nascar race but I drive a vehicle capable of going over 100 mph but I don’t drive it that fast because I know my capabilities. The protector mindset was missing in this conversation, what about all the innocent people who die every 10 seconds in active shooter events. Someone needs to do something now not call 911 and wait and hope not to get shot. I actually train law enforcement and citizens on active shooter response and I don’t like people who are always looking for why something can’t be done. The world is full of those who talk about why we can’t or should not, let’s talk about why and how we can.
the Constitution does not require a level of training to exercise your rights. while training is a good Idea it shouldn't be a requirement to defend yourself. proceed at your own risk
Actually it does. What does the 2nd Amendment say? "A well regulated militia" being well regulated means to be well trained, well versed and instructed in their firearm and ready for the fight. Training is mandatory.
Thank you both for the comments. Training is critically important without a doubt. Ideally everyone would take carrying a weapon very serious and be incredibly proficient in the use of that weapon which only comes through ongoing training and practice. Stay safe and keep watching!
A concealed carrier can not and should not advance into a dangerous situation. We lack sufficient equipment to deal with a serious threat, and we're at risk of being targeted by law enforcement or other armed citizens. The only reasonable action is to move away from the situation, set up a defensive position if complete escape is not possible, and make sure authorities have been called and are as informed as possible. An armed citizen should really only act if they are already in the midst of a situation, know what is happening, and encounter a threat. The problem has to find you. Unfortunately, there are generally two types of armed citizens. One type understands the responsibility and takes it upon themselves to be as skilled and informed as possible. Their minds think ahead of events, and they are often assets. The other half carry a gun without thinking much about it or properly training. They end up being reactive, unpredictable, and likely to make things worse.
Thank you both for the comments! @brianf5190, you bring up a great point we have not discussed....other armed citizens in the same event. If legally armed citizens, and even off-duty law enforcement, go "hunting" for the problem, there is a great chance of being mistaken for the original threat. If the problem starts in front of you or you have no way to avoid it, then that is the time to consider the use of the legally carried firearm in defense of yourself and others. Keep watching!
I'm sympathetic to the idea that Concealed Carriers should train consistently with their weapon, the problem is that this can ONLY be instated via cultural values that don't villainize gun ownership. Criminals will NEVER have to follow weapon safety rules. Mandatory training not only reduces the QUALITY of said training overall, but it makes people think training is an infringement on their rights which it should not be.
I'm a firm believer and advocate of mandatory training, both in carry and training on the relative laws of our states. We are to be well regulated, and that alone is a mandate from the founders. Being well regulated means to be ready, trained and outfitted.
Thank you @ryan-xq3kl for the comment. Gun ownership should not be villainized and we hope everyone takes the responsibility of legally carrying a firearm serious which includes obtaining some type of training. Stay safe and keep watching!
cwp class dont teach you how to shoot its not a training class for that its a training class so you know. the laws I have seen so many ppl that should not be carrying a gun in the classes kinda scary
“. . . they (the citizens) can be very helpful, but they can be very problematic,” said Perry. A gun can be very helpful, but can be very problematic. A knife can be very helpful, but can be very problematic. A machete can be very helpful, but can be very problematic. A hammer can be very helpful, but can be very problematic. A baseball bat can be very helpful, but can be very problematic. A pencil, a fork, a rock, a car, a water bottle full of gasoline, ANYTHING can be very helpful, but can be very problematic! What’s your point?
Just saying you "support the 2nd amendment" is not enough. You must clarify your "support". Do you think the federal government has any business interfering in any way with the right of any individual American to keep and bear arms? If so, please specify in what ways you believe the federal government may interfere with that right.
HUH, I'm disgusted with that whole conversation. SO, you think having former LEO discussing "Armed civilians" is a good idea? They only touch their guns once a year, to re-qualify.They think combining training to testing is a good idea. And they have the nerve to spout their negative, FALSE opinions about "armed civilians"? Yeah right, and we see what those opinions are, don't we? BTW, FYI, I've been shooting IDPA for about 25 years and have been a Safety Officer (meaning follow each shooter through the stages and make sure they maintain safety, AND, having a thorough knowledge of every pistol made) as well, SO ,,,. The IDPA is about real life scenarios- shoot from cover, and on the move, at moving targets and moving, at moving targets, shoot/no shoot scenarios, etc. doing tac-reloads and various manipulations, including malfunctions. FYI, there's tens of thousands of members across this Country, so THAT is the norm for "Armed Civilians". BTW, I can count on ONE hand, in 25 years, how many LEO participated, so,,,ALSO, FYI, for every time in competition, we perform 2 hours of dry fire ,DAILY , at home. . SO let's see what these so called "experts" have to say. Well first off, I can tell they have a very LOW opinion of "armed civilians", so much so, they can't wait to show their biases. SO, the 1st speaker says, "I want to say first, that i support the 2A, and I repeat (please don't), BUT," OK, STOP right there, NO support of ANYTHING has a "BUT" attached to it. THAT's' like saying , "I hate to be negative, BUT."'' Meaning, I hate to be negative, BUT, I'm going to be anyway.. SO, he REALLY does NOT support the 2A, for "Civilians", but can't even be honest about it. FAIL. THEN, the 2nd speaker mentions that Florida passed "Constitutional Carry", STOP, Ummm it's NOT CC- The Constitution does NOT mention that. . FYI, it is "Permit-less carry". "Permit" is the root word of "permission" and , WE don't need govt permission to "KEEP AND BEAR ARMS". THEN, he says something MOST ridiculous: .He says, " "Armed civilians" need training "beyond their capabilities" UMM, WHAT?!?!? Hey Einstein, apparently YOU played hooky on your physics classes.FYI, that's physically IMPOSSIBLE to do. If that were true, we'd be traveling at the speed of light and teleporting everywhere. FAIL. SHEESH. Too painful to watch any more.
I've carried a gun for 20 years and one thing I have learned over the years is a lot ofpeople carrying guns today, especially those that open carry, have no business carrying that firearm. It should be mandatory that if we are going to carry a gun in public that we attend a 3 day training class and an 8 hour class on the laws of our state and local city/town in which we live. That's not a popular opinion but in 2024 with all of these states passing constitutional carry it needs to become a law. That wouldn't infringe on our rights because the law would require us to be well regulated, just like the bill of rights demand.
@Brett235 thank you for your comment. We certainly agree training is a critical part of conversation involving firearms, both for civilians and law enforcement professionals. Stay safe and keep watching!
You should train as much as you can never stop i have USSCA they can get you the training you need so you can go home at the end of the day great video thank you
I served in the military. Nothing gets you ready for combat .but combat it's self .and it changes you
If our government wasn't so scared of its own people they would see they have an extremely large very patriotic armed force.
They see that exactly. It terrifies them and disrupts their plans.
People that carry should take personal responsibility to stay current with their carry weapon. That said, governmental mandatory is tantamount to a gateway to “infringement“.
Great discussion, gentlemen. For what it's worth, my opinion (retired LEO, military, firearms instructor, and perpetual student of tactics) all concealed carriers need to know the laws of their state regarding use of force, self-defense, etc FIRST. Shooting, tactics...all that is cool, fun and absolutely necessary, but knowing WHEN TO/WHEN NOT TO use deadly force is the most important knowledge to have. After that....training...training...training. Which brings up my second point...police departments don't want to train non-LEOs in active shooter response for two reasons...1) liability and 2)the attitude of "It's our job to stop the threat, not your's. You just sit there and die until we, the professionals, get there." And I'm saying this as a retired LEO from a big city PD that still pays to attend training classes in order to keep up my skill set. I talk to officers all the time and without exception that is their attitude...just my $0.02 worth. Stay safe. Stay armed.
Thank you for your comments! We certainly concur about the training aspect of this topic and preparing before you find yourself in one of these critical situations. Stay safe!
As said, education on YOUR state laws BEFORE gun use is the most important thing to do before you use a gun in self-defense. I just had an hour long conversation with my attorney on this subject. He said all gun owners should do as I did.He was a former sheriff and currently an auxiliary officer and police officer trainer.
Great advice @gloryland59!
I agree. A mandatory class requirement for obtaining a Concealed Carry Permit is here in Virginia. I will say that the "instruction" in my class was elementary. The class lasted only an hour, and there was nowhere near enough time spent on the laws regarding the legally justifiable use of force. It is incumbent on the citizen gun owner to educate him or herself on the matter as much as possible. In a worst-case scenario, when a citizen is required to use lethal force with a firearm, mental breakdowns, mistakes, and uncertainty can be more dangerous to your life, the lives of other innocents, and to your personal freedom than the violent criminal assailant(s).
I am ex-military and current NRA instructor/Paramedic, I firmly agree with the original post, training is such a vital necessity for everyone that carries and unfortunately if the individual is not willing to take the initiative then the law makers need to. American needs trained citizens assisting law enforcement, not hindering them with their lack of knowledge or naive experience.
As someone who’s carried now for five years, I feel like my role is to mind my business, make it home safe, and keep my family safe.
I have 12 years of carry experience. Always remember; gun on, ego off.
Given our constitutional right to keep and bear arms, it is governmental gross negligence that gun safety training is not mandatory in all public schools.
It should be mandatory for anyone carrying a gun in public. All law enforcement officers have to go through weeks of training so why wouldn't we? Aren't we supposed to be well regulated? Well regulated means to be ready, trained and outfitted with the tools we need.
Thank you for the comment!
Thank you @richardthomas6602 for the comment! No one can receive too much training.
Would stop a lot of the nonsense these days. I learned at 7 because of my dad, but living in CT that isn't the norm here
@Brett235 well regulated is necessary for freedom.
Let’s remember that most police officers never discharge their weapons in the line of duty and aren’t automatically an Operative just because they have a few weeks on a range then given less legal responsibility than the general public. It’s the responsibility of every person who carries a firearm to train to the best of their abilities and know the laws that govern their actions.
100% agree. If you’re serious about self defense you will train on your own, know the laws in your state, and be ready when the time comes
Thanks for the comments! It is a commitment to carry and everyone needs to know what they are getting into when they do. Stay safe and keep watching!
As a woman, I have had to roll play MY reaction to an event. I never want to harm another person BUT I have made the commitment ... to do what was neccesary to protect my life and the other people around me. Mind Set and practiced muscle memory is important.
Great discussion! As a citizen who trains regularly, I wish some of the tax dollars from firearms purchases would be applied to offer classes to the masses as part of their ownership
That's a great idea @dandyjones1185! As discussed, it requires a commitment to be an armed citizen or even an off-duty law enforcement professional.
OFFER CLASSES,,,AS PART OF THEIR GUN OWNERSHIP? OH, you mean, MAKE THE TRAINING MANDATORY, don't you? Otherwise, what's the point? And who would keep that money and use it for that "optional training"? What would keep them from pocketing that money? And how much do you think. gun buyers would pay EXTRA, for a gun? NOPE, THAT sounds like MORE gun control. FYI, the 2A does NOT say,"The People have the right to keep and bear arms,as long as they train, as part of their gun ownership".
@ I don't believe in mandates either. I was thinking more about subsidizing professional training possibly using a voucher ?
@C3Pathways The right to keep & bear arms is a constitutional right. Training (I'm a strong proponent of force on force to get a taste of that 0 to 10 adrenalin dump) is the responsibility of the firearm owner.
The LAST place I want my training to come from is the same folks who brought us the IRS and DMV.
The armed citizen's responsibility is to seek out:
1. How to fight with a weapon (not just shoot it)
2. A scenario based medical class
3. Well designed force on force class.
IMHO, anything less is an inadequate foundation to build on.
Thanks for the interesting discussion.
I am a Martial Artist's with 50 years of training and a 2nd amendment 24/7/365 CCW holder.
This is an AWESOME podcast keep up the GREAT work.
Thank you @mrbob28115! Keep watching!
Ummm where do you still have to ask the govt permission to 'RKBA"?
Voluntary training is great. Getting any kind of permit based on training is wrong. We don’t need a DMV type set of hoops to jump through with all the red tape and forms.
Every one should get civic responsibility and firearm training on school.
1st time viewer...reired LEO and pro CCW advocate. Guys, great episode & integration of LE, Fire and Medical perspectives. I just subscribed.
I’m glad this question came up! As an older man I would really like to see more people step up and train us who want the training. I live in Idaho and I fire a lot of rounds down range.
Well done. Very good thought provoking information. I CC and understand and have made the commitment that you talk about. I don't shoot that much but I practice drawing and aquiring a target every day.
This would be great information to have in open forum. I have trained more people and have been training people for over 50 years. I think this would be better discussion if you had those of us who carry in on the video too. You all made lots of good points but are short on concepts complete explanations. I know time is limited, but more needs discussed. Of course, you all know this too.
@crystalr7602 it does seem there is never enough time to discuss the things we all want to know more about. We appreciate your feedback and looks like we may need to have a Part 2 of this topic in the future. Keep watching!
Though I done believe training should mandatory, CCW carriers should have more training.
Some training is good for everyone! Thank you for the comment.
SO WHO asks their govt for permission to RKBA?
My police acadamy in 1989, the Loma Prieta, Calif earth quake mid way in the acadamy. Many cadets who were sent to the school by a department, they went out ,after class to assist their departments. Thankfully no shots were fired. In the end, it was good that cadets did not go out armed, loaded. At graduation, some graduates were terrible and barely able to hit a target at all. Most were pre-trained military and police reserve. And that was a very competitive class, according to instructors. I ran away with the 'top gun' status. It is very very obvious that a person cannot get enough training. Non police , the laws are a must. Getting rid of bravado, 'big gun, big man syndrome' and words like 'kill', 'had to kill...', 'shoot to kill' should be erased from the mind.
I've trained much more as a citizen than I did as a deputy. There's a lot of good training available and independent training aids, I use to practice regularly and reduce ammo costs. Don't get shot by a cop arriving on scene. Don't get involved unless absolutely necessary.
We appreciate the comment @richardgaynor6113!
Thank you for the comment. We all wish we had more training time and our law enforcement professionals had unlimited training time and resources. Unfortunately this is not the case and like you, we have to do our own training and practice. It certainly takes a commitment! Stay safe and keep watching!
I been thru shoot don't shoot course the cops scare me more than the bad guys do
Outstanding Thanks.
Well explained. A question rather than anything that has troubled me is why, as law enforcement who are required to carry and use lethal devices as part of their job, they are not certifying at least annually, if not quarterly. I've read that reports published indicate your target hit rate is at best 1 in 4 shots. That means 3 of every 4 shots fired hit something/someone other than what was targeted. This is not meant as criticism of the officers, but as you indicated it is a perishable skill. Should there be a class of officers not required to carry a weapon? Should you be allowed to work if you can not certify? These are basically the same concerns you presented about the armed citizens. Should law enforcement agencies be required to offer free public training you would like the citizens to have. Not just firearms but first aid, etc? So you can get to know the people who are concealed carrying.
Great questions and comments @MrZachzippo! Although it varies by state and local jurisdiction, law enforcement officers are typically required to qualify either annually, semi-annually or even quarterly (most if not all federal agencies require quarterly). Hit rates certainly vary as well as deadly force encounters are very dynamic, both for law enforcement officers and citizens. As discussed in the session, law enforcement agencies struggle to keep up training for their own staff without the burden of also providing tactical training for members of the community. You have a great point about getting to know and creating relationships with those in our communities who are legally carrying a weapon. If you have not, we would encourage you to attend your local police or sheriffs citizen police academy. These are great opportunities to get to know each other. Thanks for the comment and keep watching!
Every police agency is required by their standards commission to at least qualify annually.
As an armed Citizen and one who has participated in firearms training at the same locations as LEO's, I have learned most Citizens who hone their skills with 8 to 12 hundred rounds yearly are superior to our hired help. Additionally, most LEO are more concerned with "officer safety" which makes them more likely to gravitate towards making a friendly fire error. Lastly, it is in the nature of LEO's to possess an "I'm superior" authoritarian mindset, which catapults them into the armed and dangerous category.
Bottomline, the police have no lawful duty to protect Citizens, and at the same time, they possess no more or higher lawfull authority to engage in a battle with "the bad guy" over a private Citizen. Whoever is present at the time of a CODE RED situation, LEO or Citizen, if they have enough moxie, they morally should engage and stop the criminal pronto.
BTW: I was the Range Master at American Firearms & Safty Academy from 1979 through 1987. (Jeff Cooper would have fully agreed with me. He personally trained me in Pauldin Arizona.)
I get the whole cautionary tale about untrained civilians, but I know if there were any or many stories of this sort it would have made national news when they -2a media we have. I know it has to happen, but if it's so few and far between that even the media doesn't cover it, I think we would be safer by arming all the good guys.
I am ex 82nd airborne and have ran a private Cadet program for about 9 years now and I would feel much more comfortable with fellow teachers that also were armed.
Excellent video, gentlemen I have longed for a neutral medium with comments from law-enforcement and the instructors. You are just those gentleman. I have a better perspective now thank you for your time. I acquired a concealed carry permit in a state of Arizona for my own benefit and well-being.
@rosie-di6ed, thank you very much for the comment and watching! Stay safe and keep watching!
I think training is critical, but the reason most people can not get training is that it is way too expensive for most people . I have had extensive training . But I can tell you that it is way overpriced for what you get. And until a better cost solution is available, you will find untrained people carrying .
I agree. I am self taught for the most part and I have had some individual training, not anything professional, just some weekend training from a guy that I worked with that is a retired State Trooper. I feel that I am prepared and educated enough to carry in the public from the years of personal range time and extensive gun handling. I see some of these people open carrying and it worries me to be honest. The lack of self awareness, the crappy equipment and the sloppy way of carrying.
It is unfortunate that a lot of training is very expensive. As a previous person referenced, there are gun clubs and associations that are relatively inexpensive to join that can offer great training opportunities. In a perfect world everyone would have access to great training and take the responsibility of carrying a concealed (or open carry) weapon seriously. Thank you for the comments!
Most perps don’t use a holster to begin with
Scary stuff. I don't carry much because of this. If you follow the rules, then you're in a good spot to neutralize the threat with minimal possibility of collateral. Being able to pull the trigger is a different story...
Thank you @scottgagliardi5933! As you state, there is so much more to this conversation than just carrying a gun. Stay safe and keep watching!
I'm all for this training - I'm a certified firearms trainer myself, however, there's a problem with some police personnel who make like they're God himself and are threatening themselves especially in an after shooting scenario. You all say you don't know how someone's going to react i.e. armed person, well, we don't know how you're going to act and how do we know you're a good guy? It looks like you're wearing a uniform but is it real? Seriously! Looks real and many bad guys have uniforms that look real but they're not. You draw a bead on me and that's a threat. I need to guard my life so cops don't take that into consideration either when they show up and when you draw on me, I'm defending against you as a threat to me. Some kind of mutual understanding needs to be established so we both understand each other. Police have no higher rights than I do so we best understand each other. Bad cops don't care. Do police officers surrender their sidearms? NO! Why should I have to surrender mine to police? THAT'S NONSENSE! Just because you all say so? That's not right.
#1 - Build & maintain safety & tactical firearms skills.
#2 - Know & stay current on all related laws of every jurisdiction that you frequent in your travels.
#3 - Stay in tip-top running shape in case #1 and #2 do not apply... what ever your reason!
Thank you for posting this video.
You are welcome @lawrenceadams6718!
You are welcome and thanks for watching!
Great topic, training often, understanding the rules, cool headed and responsibility.👍
Thank you!
Add running in place to live rounds being shot at you. Where would your stress level go?
Admit the force on force argument/failing…most cops are afraid of their own shadow.
Great very informative video gentlemen. As a concealed carrier myself, the first thing I'd like to say is I am not looking to be a hero. If I am in a public place and there is an active shooter situation I don't draw my weapon and go looking for the shooter, I am looking to get the hell outta there any way I can. I say this because of something you all said about being mistakes for the bad guy by the police and getting taken out myself. Might seem callous of my but my first response is everyone else is on their own. On another hand if I am cornered by the shooter, he is drawing down on me or some other innocent person and I have a clear opportunity to take him out I will do so. If I fail to do this how then am i expected to live with myself letting an innocent person die when I had the chance to stop it? I appreciate what good men like yourselves do for us, and no disrespect intended but sometimes the way you pout things leave many of us wondering if maybe we aren't getting the whole story. It was said in the event of a situation out weapon would ne taken temporarily. Question is what exactly does that mean? Does it mean we will get the weapon back as soon as it's decided we won't be charged with murder for defending ourselves or others, or does it mean we will get it back years down the road after a long drawn out investigation? If our weapon is taken does it mean we forfeit our right of self defense and ability to carry another weapon? Are we damned of we do, damned if we don't and guilty until proven innocent? The lack of clarification can cause good people to freeze at a critical moment and that gentlemen, in my opinion, can and does cause innocent people to die
@kennethrisner-c8q you bring up several great points and one that could use some clarification from the session. The response posture you described is spot on with most thinking about armed civilians finding themselves in the middle of an active shooter or other deadly force situation. If you can avoid it, get away. If you can't, you have a legal right to defend yourself and should do so accordingly.
Regarding the issue of law enforcement taking a persons weapon after they were involved in a shooting, this is going to vary by state and local jurisdiction. However, as the presenters stated, law enforcement officers who are involved in on-duty shootings always have their weapons taken as evidence until the case is investigated and resolved. Armed citizens who use their weapon to stop a threat will also likely have their firearm taken as evidence pending the outcome of the investigation. This is standard procedure across the United States. Absent some other legal reason, the weapon should be released after the investigation is concluded.
Thank you for your comment and keep listening!
@@C3Pathways That's the whole point, until the investigation is over which could mean months or years if there is an over zealous democrat leaning prosecutor. And the question remains, if one weapon is taken or are ALL a person's weapons confiscated?
You are right in that it could be months (very likely) or years. Every situation and jurisdiction is different, however one would think only the weapon used in the incident would be taken as evidence lacking some other criminal investigation. We appreciate the response and comments!
By your own logic shouldn't teachers who undergo serious training be able to carry or at least have a backup firearm in their desk? The main concern is that they aren't trained for it, I figure training the ones who want to carry would be the best option. The risks of not carrying are largely un-discussed here.
"In their desk ...... "
No.
For those that choose to go through the paid training to use a firearm in school should be able to have a firearm. That firearm should be in a locked safe in that classroom readily available.
Great discussion and points @ryan-xq3kl, @lawrenceadams6718 and @brett235. Those laws vary state by state and school district by school district in some states. Texas for example has laws allowing school districts to make the local decision about whether or not some of their teachers can be designated "school marshals" or part of the "guardian" program. Both of these also have training requirements with them. Thanks for the conversation!
@@lawrenceadams6718 I agree. In a desk is a terrible idea. If teachers are in the classroom armed there is only one location where the firearm is responsibly located. And that is on the body. Whether that is IWB concealed or outside the waistband (preferably in a retetion holster).
@@C3PathwaysI've participated in the Texas system and met with the folks at TxSSC. They are in as much of a quandary as many other educators as to how to navigate the active shooter subject in schools.
There's plenty of law enforcement officers at have absolutely no idea how to use a gun either😢
When seconds count the police are minutes away! So this discussion is mute. By the time the police arrive on the scene, everything will be over! When the cop says I support the 2A BUT, they don't support 2A!
I used to think that way until I realized how inept some of the people carrying guns really are. Law enforcement have to take weeks of training and so should we the public defender. It should be mandatory that if we're going to carry a gun we should have to be trained in the laws and use of carrying. The second amendment actually mandates us to train being that we are the militia. Well regulated is the mandate.
Unfortunately you are correct in that police are only minutes away when seconds count! Hopefully any law enforcement officer would appreciate a lawfully carrying civilian who stopped an immediate deadly force threat to save lives. Thanks for the comment!
@Brett235 My ineptness is all I got because cop training is late to the party!
If you are going.
To carry with the CCW You should train at least twice a month. Different scenarios. That's what I go through about 300 rounds a month.
I was once told proper prior planning Prevent Piss poor performance
There are people who have had more shots fired at them than the average law enforcement officer. Are those people considered bad people?
If you carry, train! You’re taking the responsibility to carry, seek out training to support your responsibilities.
Christian Warriors Training has a lot of programs for civilians
Thank you for the comment @jamesritsema!
I’m a trainer and a proponent of firearms training 100%. What I find extremely regrettable is the professional discouragement through negative reinforcement by “professionals” of citizens to save their own lives and/or the lives of others. Handguns are 100% safe when in the holster regardless of level of training (Sig 320 possibly excluded). The vast majority of active shooters/and or criminals HAVE HAD NO TRAINING either. The private citizen if they have applied themselves minimally are better trained than the average criminal/active shooter. The often bemoaned “an average citizen has no chance against an active shooter with a long gun” is just not true.
You won’t be thinking about any of the details in the moment I promise you that. You will be totally absorbed into the action of the moment and will only react or not to what means you react is another question which is dependent on what level of preparation you’ve had.
Training BEFORE an a critical incident is key! Thanks for the comment and keep watching.
First rule of thumb... In a confrontational interaction, where you feel your lifeay be in danger. DON'T HOLD YOUR WEAPON BY YOUR SIDES IF YOU CANNOT SEE THEIR HANDS CLEARLY... ALSO, YOUR FINGER STAYS ON THE TRIGGER ONE HUNDRED PERCENT
I strongly recommend watching the video series by Ed Monk on Active Self Prootection
In FL sheriff office in some county do give classes to civilians 🤗
Great info @angelos3338!
All this is great stuff. I have a carry permit in three states 2 give you some training requirement and the laws. One none whatsoever. We need to make training across all states the same. I shoot every 3 weeks, but I am retired.
Thank you for comment @johncollins5021. Yes, there are certainly differences in training requirements between the states. Thank you for your commitment to training and being ready! Stay safe and keep watching.
No permit and don’t abide by them anyway because rights don’t require permission. I carry anyway and money is well spent on training. You’d be surprised how much you’re lacking in skills if you haven’t taken a class in a long time. The goal should be to be responsible and effective.
Shooting is certainly a perishable skill! Thanks for the comment and keep watching!
Iam Level 3 security and LTC carry in Texas would like more training
Great topic and discussion.
Thank you!
Good guy or bad guy matters! If you don't know the difference leave, or depend on self defense!
I've noticed (observational evidence only, no stats to back it up...) that the more training someone has the more likely they are to feel that training is a good and necessary thing, while those who have little or no training feel that training is unnecessary. I'd call that a conundrum. I belong to the first group and believe I'll never have enough training and I don't look forward to ever being in a situation where I have to draw my gun.
Great perspective @PetrosArgy. NCIER/C3 Pathways is all about training and believe everyone has something to learn or work on in a training environment. Stay safe and keep watching!
Mr. Auerbacher said that a citizen might not have the proper training on how to use a firearm.
Uh . . . yeah, thatks called FREEDOM!
Get used to it.
You should train as much as you can never stop i have USSCA they can get you the training you need so you can go home at the end of the day great video thank you
Dealing with the public has to be self experienced the tools to deal with that can be learned by others no better teacher then a seasoned law officer such as these videos
Thank you for the comment @crissylynn176!
No not always the case
Join the USCCA for training and learn the laws in your stare,
Also member Texas Law shield and NRA member
Armed teachers need more training than just CCW. But an armed teacher would probably have the threat taken care of long before the police arrive on scene.
We certainly agree that everyone needs more training, even our law enforcement professionals. Thanks for the comment!
Im an armed citizen with more that 250 hrs of trying - low light, confined space, linear space, working around vehicle - inside and outside. Two man room clearing. And have spend literally thousands of hour practice what I’ve been taugh
Outstanding and thank you for the comment!
The posture to have is have your weapon back in the holster
We agree 100% @longgone9869! Just try to avoid having your gun in your hand when law enforcement arrives....or another legally carrying citizen arrives. That could lead to a catastrophic outcome nobody wants. Keep watching!
Need to know how to load it, rack a round, aim and proper engagement techniques for gun control TONSTAY ON TJE TARHET... And, Squeeze the Trigger, DON'T PULL IT
Cop shows up, cop must control situation. What does taking control look like?
5 star video
I'm LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN, I belong to a Gun club for over 20 years, It has to be CONSTITIONAL CARRY!! END OF STORY! If we taxpayers pay for your training, why should we pay? How about FREE Training for LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN!
It would be wonderful if there were free training for citizens who are lawfully carrying a weapon. Until then, it is a commitment by each individual to ensure they are properly trained and ready to take decisive action if a critical incident unfolds around them. Thanks for the comment!
Good conversation.
I support the police, I'm a law an order person.
Legal repercussions aside, I'll offer my opinion.
Police while performing a difficult job, are not special. They are civilians with an interesting job.
There should be no exemptions from any laws, not just gun laws.
That said, training is important, practice is important and they are not the same thing.
Join an IDPA club. Take individual classes. Walk through in your head how to respond to the aftermath of a defensive encounter before it, and hopefully it never does, occurs.
One thing I'll disagree on came late in the discussion.
Yes first aid and trauma and stop the bleed training, this is for me and any innocents involved.
Bad guy's hit it's up to you if you want to render aid, but it's clearly not, as the victim, your responsibility to aid your attacker. 🇺🇸
Thank you for the comment @mikefarmer4748. As you said, training is critical and it is not the same as practice. Mentally rehearse what will happen before, during and after a critical incident. It is difficult for the mind to take you places you have never been, especially under stress. Stay safe and keep watching!
Texas offers fist aid class i believe thats level5
Your gun handling skills must learned to a subconscious level. Your mind will be too involved in the situation at hand to be thinking about the operation of your firearm. Training classes are available for many ex military instructors around the country. As a matter of fact it’s where many police officers go for additional training because they don’t get it from their agency . But the key is to spend your own time practicing what you’ve learned in class. The purpose is to hone your skills which you can’t do in a class because of time restrictions.
Very true! Thanks for the comment.
The intent is as importaint as the action.
Florida has a tremendous firearms culture that may rival the state of Texas. What Florida does not have is a firearms training culture.
It would be wonderful if everyone took the training aspect of carrying a gun very seriously. Thank you for the comment!
I agree that training is necessary for any dangerous situation. BUT the assumption that law enforcement is better trained than some citizens is false. Everyone could benefit from better training in any situation. We allow 16 year old kids to drive a car and put them in a world where they are definitely not prepared for the danger that driving presents. I don’t like the assumption that citizens carrying weapons is a bad thing and every time a law enforcement officer talks about this that comes out. What about the off duty officer or the plain clothes officer. I hear all the time that if a citizen pulls out his weapon he will probably get shot by responding officers. That tells me that officers are not as trained as the assumption implies. Statistically a citizen has never shot anyone but the bad guy but cops have. They have even shot other cops. Truthfully though typically when the active shooter is confronted by another armed person he either give up or shoot’s himself. You have to have a little faith in the public. People know whether they are capable of responding or not. I’m not going to go get in a nascar race but I drive a vehicle capable of going over 100 mph but I don’t drive it that fast because I know my capabilities. The protector mindset was missing in this conversation, what about all the innocent people who die every 10 seconds in active shooter events. Someone needs to do something now not call 911 and wait and hope not to get shot. I actually train law enforcement and citizens on active shooter response and I don’t like people who are always looking for why something can’t be done. The world is full of those who talk about why we can’t or should not, let’s talk about why and how we can.
the Constitution does not require a level of training to exercise your rights. while training is a good Idea it shouldn't be a requirement to defend yourself. proceed at your own risk
Actually it does. What does the 2nd Amendment say? "A well regulated militia" being well regulated means to be well trained, well versed and instructed in their firearm and ready for the fight. Training is mandatory.
Thank you both for the comments. Training is critically important without a doubt. Ideally everyone would take carrying a weapon very serious and be incredibly proficient in the use of that weapon which only comes through ongoing training and practice. Stay safe and keep watching!
Cuffs tazers and Baton to can get you in trouble mace to
If you know how to make holes, you should know how to plug holes.
Great comment @richbeguin2201! We concur completely. Keep watching!
A concealed carrier can not and should not advance into a dangerous situation. We lack sufficient equipment to deal with a serious threat, and we're at risk of being targeted by law enforcement or other armed citizens. The only reasonable action is to move away from the situation, set up a defensive position if complete escape is not possible, and make sure authorities have been called and are as informed as possible.
An armed citizen should really only act if they are already in the midst of a situation, know what is happening, and encounter a threat. The problem has to find you.
Unfortunately, there are generally two types of armed citizens. One type understands the responsibility and takes it upon themselves to be as skilled and informed as possible. Their minds think ahead of events, and they are often assets. The other half carry a gun without thinking much about it or properly training. They end up being reactive, unpredictable, and likely to make things worse.
And you win the common sense prize today. Let’s not forget a zealous prosecutor.
Thank you both for the comments! @brianf5190, you bring up a great point we have not discussed....other armed citizens in the same event. If legally armed citizens, and even off-duty law enforcement, go "hunting" for the problem, there is a great chance of being mistaken for the original threat. If the problem starts in front of you or you have no way to avoid it, then that is the time to consider the use of the legally carried firearm in defense of yourself and others. Keep watching!
( A well regulated ) malita !
Not a bunch of yahoos with a
Weapon !
I'm sympathetic to the idea that Concealed Carriers should train consistently with their weapon, the problem is that this can ONLY be instated via cultural values that don't villainize gun ownership. Criminals will NEVER have to follow weapon safety rules. Mandatory training not only reduces the QUALITY of said training overall, but it makes people think training is an infringement on their rights which it should not be.
I'm a firm believer and advocate of mandatory training, both in carry and training on the relative laws of our states. We are to be well regulated, and that alone is a mandate from the founders. Being well regulated means to be ready, trained and outfitted.
Thank you @ryan-xq3kl for the comment. Gun ownership should not be villainized and we hope everyone takes the responsibility of legally carrying a firearm serious which includes obtaining some type of training. Stay safe and keep watching!
cwp class dont teach you how to shoot its not a training class for that its a training class so you know. the laws I have seen so many ppl that should not be carrying a gun in the classes kinda scary
Training, or good quality training, is key. It takes more than knowing the law when under stress in a critical incident. Thank you.
“. . . they (the citizens) can be very helpful, but they can be very problematic,” said Perry.
A gun can be very helpful, but can be very problematic.
A knife can be very helpful, but can be very problematic.
A machete can be very helpful, but can be very problematic.
A hammer can be very helpful, but can be very problematic.
A baseball bat can be very helpful, but can be very problematic.
A pencil, a fork, a rock, a car, a water bottle full of gasoline, ANYTHING can be very helpful, but can be very problematic!
What’s your point?
What a diverse looking group. 😂
Just saying you "support the 2nd amendment" is not enough. You must clarify your "support". Do you think the federal government has any business interfering in any way with the right of any individual American to keep and bear arms? If so, please specify in what ways you believe the federal government may interfere with that right.
@cvdevol thank you for the comment.
@@C3Pathways Your reply is rather vague.
HUH, I'm disgusted with that whole conversation. SO, you think having former LEO discussing "Armed civilians" is a good idea? They only touch their guns once a year, to re-qualify.They think combining training to testing is a good idea. And they have the nerve to spout their negative, FALSE opinions about "armed civilians"? Yeah right, and we see what those opinions are, don't we?
BTW, FYI, I've been shooting IDPA for about 25 years and have been a Safety Officer (meaning follow
each shooter through the stages and make sure they maintain safety, AND, having a thorough knowledge of every pistol made) as well, SO ,,,. The IDPA is about real life scenarios- shoot from cover, and on the move, at moving targets and moving, at moving targets, shoot/no shoot scenarios, etc. doing tac-reloads and various manipulations, including malfunctions. FYI, there's tens of thousands of members across this Country, so THAT is the norm for "Armed Civilians". BTW, I can count on ONE hand, in 25 years, how many LEO participated, so,,,ALSO, FYI, for every time in competition, we perform 2 hours of dry fire ,DAILY , at home.
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SO let's see what these so called "experts" have to say. Well first off, I can tell they have a very LOW opinion of "armed civilians", so much so, they can't wait to show their biases.
SO, the 1st speaker says, "I want to say first, that i support the 2A, and I repeat (please don't), BUT," OK, STOP right there, NO support of ANYTHING has a "BUT" attached to it. THAT's' like saying , "I hate to be negative, BUT."'' Meaning, I hate to be negative, BUT, I'm going to be anyway.. SO, he REALLY does NOT support the 2A, for "Civilians", but can't even be honest about it. FAIL.
THEN, the 2nd speaker mentions that Florida passed "Constitutional Carry", STOP, Ummm it's NOT CC- The Constitution does NOT mention that. . FYI, it is "Permit-less carry". "Permit" is the root word of "permission" and , WE don't need govt permission to "KEEP AND BEAR ARMS". THEN, he says something MOST ridiculous: .He says, " "Armed civilians" need training "beyond their capabilities" UMM, WHAT?!?!? Hey Einstein, apparently YOU played hooky on your physics classes.FYI, that's physically IMPOSSIBLE to do. If that were true, we'd be traveling at the speed of light and teleporting everywhere. FAIL.
SHEESH. Too painful to watch any more.
I've carried a gun for 20 years and one thing I have learned over the years is a lot ofpeople carrying guns today, especially those that open carry, have no business carrying that firearm. It should be mandatory that if we are going to carry a gun in public that we attend a 3 day training class and an 8 hour class on the laws of our state and local city/town in which we live. That's not a popular opinion but in 2024 with all of these states passing constitutional carry it needs to become a law. That wouldn't infringe on our rights because the law would require us to be well regulated, just like the bill of rights demand.
@Brett235 thank you for your comment. We certainly agree training is a critical part of conversation involving firearms, both for civilians and law enforcement professionals. Stay safe and keep watching!
Why not give out the information of ammo you use none of its top-secret
Hmmmm.... I see a lot of flaws here. 🎤🎤🎤🎤
Training...it's says shall not be infringed...this is a clown show.
You should train as much as you can never stop i have USSCA they can get you the training you need so you can go home at the end of the day great video thank you
Thank you for the comment and recommendation.