Can Chinese Bikes Take Over the Motorcycle Market in the West? (CF Moto, Kove, Sur Ron)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Will the Kove Rally 450, CF Moto Ibex 450 MT, and SWM Stormbreaker make a splash in the west? Check out the reasons why they may succeed and what could lead them to failure.
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Thanks you for your comments! I do my best to keep up with them for the first few days after a video comes out, but due to the volume of comments on all of my videos, and to the general hustle and bustle of life, I must give up the fight after a while. If you are leaving a question four or more days after a video comes out I can't guarantee I'll see it, but perhaps one of my other viewers knows the answer and can help out. Thanks in advance to those who contribute and share their knowledge. Cheers and stay safe everyone!
#differentspokestv
The problem with CFMoto is while the MSRP is 1K TO 1500 dollars less than an equivalent Japanese bike, the dealers claim the profit margin is so small, they have to add 1k to 1500 dealer fees to make a profit. Once they add that fee, people say well I'll just buy a Honda, Kawasaki etc. My local CFMoto dealer has 30 bikes in stock some 2 years old, that they can't sell for the above listed reasons. People figure, why take a chance on a Chinese bike when for the same money or a few hundred more, they can get a Japanese bike they KNOW is reliable.
yep I see that an issue here too, when I compare Kove's rebranded 500x to cb/nx500 they're about the same price, I hope that doesn't happen with the MT checked on AU site which most of the cfmoto listed there have the same price here, so I hope the 450mt is priced the same as in the AU. most peeps here are all about big GS's and sports bikes.
Those things are way cheaper than Japanese bike in China, as a Chinese I was amazed by how good they are, but I am still having trust issue with the reliability despite they offering great service locally. but on the bright side, Japanese dealer wont charge us premium price anymore, thus I bought a heavily discounted Yamaha.
Another awesome video. Would I buy a Chinese bike when we might be at war with China, militarily and / or commercially within ten years? From a moral and part-access standpoint...? I do respect motorcycle lovers everywhere but here, I just don't know. Plus I never buy new vehicles. 3 to 4 grand buys you a lot on the used market... Why buy a maintenance issue that would make me feel and look like a traitor hahahaha ?!?
Hey Brother, I purchased a Dongfang 250 Ghost. I believe your points are spot on. Thanks to all of you guys keeping it real. I know I'm gonna do some good maintenance, Check torque, but mine is gorgeous, purrs and does exactly what I wanted her for. A good value at a great price. $2712. to my door.
Thanks for a gr8 show
If the early reviews come in good the CFMOTO 450MT will sell like hot cakes! Hell, it's what everyone has been asking for. They already make most of the KTM bikes, I will certainly be on the waiting list.
From what I see so far suspension is not the best, lack features like quickshifter and engine lacks power.
But other than that it looks like there's no much of a catch in there.
Won't be unicorn but also nothing sinister is going on too 🦄😅👍🏿
I have a CF Moto 400NK and I simply love it, Recently I travelled to Portugal and was amazed to see that CF Moto was being sold there, after some googling I saw their network of dealerships in that country was really extensive, due to the Chinese products having lower prices and the economy in Europe I believe they will own a greater slice of the market share.
The big brands themselves started this trend. When they started to produce their bikes in cheaper countries. What is the difference buying a KTM 390 or a CF Moto if, in reality the end product is more or less the same and made in the same country? Except the price. What you get for your money is in the end what counts. Taking over the market is not propable, not in the near future at least but they are taking a cut of it soon, I think. A lot depends on how they build up their dealer network, for example here in Sweden the one thing holding RE back for the moment is that they have not found the right partner to go with and that keeps the sales numbers down. Every new brand has the same problem, of course but some way they have to solve this if they are going to establish themselves in any major way. Some new thinking about this is needed, massive dealer networks are costly and that bumps up prices so some other way needs to be found. That will happen, sooner or later but we are not there yet. Interesting topic!
Excellent points! I just saw the "new" KTM 790 Adventure which was brought back by KTM as a cheaper alternative to the 890. It costs as much or less than a Tenere 700 because it's basically made in China. Might as well by a CF Moto for less.
@@DifferentSpokesTV glad you got my point, I have a sneaky suspicion that my example bike the KTM 390 is made in India and not China so I stand corrected. Your example was right to the point. 🙂
Been daily'ing my Benelli TRK502x for a couple years, now at 12,000km. Only fault I've had is the rollover sensor went bad and prevented startup, works perfectly with it unplugged. I previously had an Enfield Himalayan, total lemon. Same with a friend's one that blew the top end at around 10,000km. We won't be buying them again anytime soon, even if the twins are made better. Only thing I can really knock the Benelli bikes for is depreciation out the door, which can actually be a good thing if you're buying barely used (as I did)
Yeah, the best way to get your money's worth out of a vehicle is to buy slightly used and ride until it falls apart.
I am afraid, Benelli can only dream of a market presence and brand equity in the West like the Royal Enfield. That doesn't come by selling lemons. Riders in the US and UK do not fall for superficial flashy poser motorcycles that are sold by the likes of Benelli.
@@jarjarbinks3193 RE have excellent marketing as of late. Retooled their factories, cleanest first service oil in the industry, very well finished bikes for the price. Turned out to be nothing of substance from my experience. They won't get me back anytime soon, unfortunately.
I don't remember anyone ever calling Japanese cars unreliable. They used to say Ford stood for "fix or repair daily".
Back in the 60's the 70's they did
I don't remember them being called unreliable, but in the mid to late 80's they were definitely thought of as cheap and less prestigious.
It doesn’t matter if you would buy one or not. The world is buying them in rapidly increasing numbers every day. Nuff said.
Crf 450l rally and Versys 400 better follow the pressure from the Ibex 450 and Kove 450 rally or else (my bank account needs the competition)
Yeah, that could be the best part of all of this. It starts an arms race for the best true adventure bike.
I'm going to buy a 450MT from CFMoto, now waiting for the launching in my place.
CF Moto is awesome, since many years a very satisfied customer!
I've been watching all the CF Moto reviews and this is by far the best as it addressed some of the geopolitical issues of it. But even at that "Like it or not Chinese Motorcyles are coming into western markets" is something I'm not sure will remain true in an unmolested form. A lot of "that will never happen" has happened just in the last few years. From what you told us of your history I assume we are about the same age, so you know how much things can change. I started writing an outline of a script myself even though I have no channel to speak of, but since I'm a History Channel historian it keeps going off the rails like that channel did: Something something Ronald Regan, Harley begs for tariffs, chicken tax, ITS ALIENS!
When Chinese motorcycles are concerned geopolitics and reliability are always an issue, but somehow no one minds their iphones, GoPros, Insta360s or other electronics being made there and they all work well.
@@DifferentSpokesTV 100
100% agree, from the reviews I've watched, the subreddit discussions I've read etc. on CF Moto specifically the reliability wouldn't be the issue that would keep me away in the short term.
I ride a Lifan KPR 200. It’s fuel injected and comfortable and liquid cooled. I have to say Chinese bikes are superior to Indian bikes. I would prefer to buy an Indian made 250ish adventure bike(preferably two cylinders) they have nothing to offer in good price. Japanese bikes costs more than a car in my country. Fuel prices are also high.
Competition is a good thing, the Japanese, American and European manufacturers will have to step up their game. I am seriously considering buying a Chinese dual sport.
I own a Chinese TRK502x and this year I'm going to buy a TRK702x. A wonderful motorcycle, especially when you compare the prices of similar motorcycles.
@@Gaudy696 fantastic info! I almost want to buy a Stormbreaker, just to make the HD crowd mad.
Same
I'm sure Taiwan and the other Southern Pacific countries will appreciate your contribution to their subjection to the CCP. Congratulations to you vote against freedom your social score should permit you travel and purchase the things allowed. Japan, South Korea and India are not run by Communist.
@@flatcapcaferacer Pretty much everything in Taiwan is made in China just like it is here mate
It doesn't matter where the bike is built. Quality control is key. Honda had Japanese veteran engineers doing quality control in their Chinese factory, and very likely branches in Philippines, Thailand and Indonesia too. These non-Japanese Honda bikes are as good as any Honda should be.
It does matter. The CCP has Chinese Muslims in concentration camps, where they have forced abortions, sterilize the women, and harvest organs of the people that die there.
Yeah, it fucking matters.
That's exactly it. My iPhone is high quality and it was probably made in China. When western companies demand quality, they get it.
Raw materials are a big impact, I bought a Chinese dirt bike designed by some South African dirt bike rider, a lot of cnc aluminium bits anodised, same brakes as on a mainstream one can’t remember what make. It was an amazing bike once I fixed some minor issues. It was stolen so I bough another different make but looked good!!! It was pile of crap, a lot of badly cut steel, brackets etc. I rode it around my property for 2 mins and never used again. Design, materials and quality control all are important
@@seanpadgett3053 Selecting material for construction is part of quality control. Materials has to be inspected before use. They do a lot of hammering, banging, and drilling to test whether they can stand the burden etc and poor grade materials will be sent back.
Even in trusted and reliable brand, there will always be compromises. Low weight, low power bikes can afford to use material of less finnesse which would also save cost. However, that does not mean they're substandard. It just mean they're constructed for lower tolerances, and therefore cost significantly lower pound per pound.
Honda built some bikes in Italy also. I have one, a 2006 CB600F.
I have a 2022 CFmoto CLX 700 Sport and it is a great bike! Lots of fun, and my wife likes it so much she's looking at getting one of their naked bikes. Their build quality is impressive and they have fantastic features that many of the competitors in the class don't have. I hope they continue putting out these machines since more options is a win for everyone on two wheels.
Times are a changing 🧐 good video and topic.
Thanks! Ten years ago who would have thought that Royal Enfield would be seriously challenging the established western and Japanese brands.
I bought the CF Moto Ibex 800T last July and have about 2400 miles on it now. It's worked flawlessly and kept me warm all winter while riding in southeastern Washington state.
Good to hear you're happy with it. More choices means the consumer wins.
how good is your transmission on your ibex 800T off road , please respond im thinking about buying one soon 2 / 22 /24
@waynehollins1193 sorry, I just saw this. The transmission works great offroad. I keep it in Rain mode when riding in the dirt. It makes the throttle less snappy.
This week I ordered an X-pro Templar 250X because my local Honda dealer lied thru their teeth to get me to buy a CRF250F at $2000 above retail. I love Big Red, but they need to audit their dealer's practices.
Amazing that they can make that for just over $2000USD. Do they have good customer support?
that's usually the case in my country, some don't even let you buy new bikes from the big 4 cash, especially if it's sought out for.
Congrats! My friends and I are considering getting one as well. Keep us posted on what you think of it.
Cheers!
A few years back I bought a CFMoto quad - changed my life as a die hard Suzuki fan. I recently bought a CF 650MT = so far the best all around bike I ever had (I have owned over 20 Suzuki's in my lifetime and still love them). This past summer I bought a CF UForce 600 UTV that all of my Polaris buddies are now in awe of - ESPECIALLY when they see all of my STANDARD features and low price.
I have no prejudice towards citizens of any country so I appreciate that part of the video and couldn't agree more. At the end of the day we are all just trying to make a living.
Motor on - no matter what you ride! 🏍
Thanks for the comment! It seems like CF Moto is the most established and quality conscious brand from China right now.
That's a very weird way of talking
@@shirsoghosh4238,
Why do you say that and who are you referring the comment towards?
I have a Chines cafe racer with a honda xr400 copy engine.
As simple as can be but i love it!
Well said. What a great point of view.
I have enjoyed every CFMoto I've ridden. And I love how they have pushed the market to giving us what we have been asking for. We need companies like them to push the other to actually make better products and remain in a competitive price point. CFMoto, Kove, and Sur Ron in 5 years will have captured an even larger corner of the industry unless the larger manufacturers truely step of their game. Always appreciate your take, even if sometimes I don't agree. Stay safe
Thanks! I appreciate that. Yes, the big plus of the whole thing is that these brands might push the Japanese and Euro brands into making the bikes we want.
Put of curiosity what have "we" been asking for. Im oblivious when it comes to features that should be there but arent
My Dad was a Navy SeaBee on Okinawa in 1945 . He went crazy when I came home in 1970 with a Yamaha . Had many bikes since then . Bought a 2023 CF Moto CLX 700 last September . Being a mature rider I love that it's aimed more to comfort than all out performance , And the performance doesn't disappoint .
Great video Patryk! I believe 100% that the Chinese manufacturers like CFMoto and Kove are actually way ahead of where the Japanese were when they came here, so much so that my CFMoto-made KTM is waiting for me to pick it up at the dealer! I also agree that we need to be mindful of punishing an entire population that has no control over what their government does.
Yes, RE and Chinese brands like CF Moto may snap take some of complacency out of the established brands.
Can't see why not, like everyone else, as long as QUALITY n PRICE is GOOD, who cares who manufacturers what ever, We're all working people 😊
The chinese communist party has concentration camps for their ethnic Muslim minority. Their babies are forced to be aborted, the women are sterilized, and their organs are harvested when they die.
You people would buy a goddamn VW from Germany in the 40s if it was cheaper.
I have a CFmoto sxs not let me down yes 15000km on it with regular maintenance.
I personally think mfg’s like CF Moto can keep the industry going by providing bikes that are affordable that far more people can enjoy Now! Instead of waiting for the ship to come in to buy an HD or other expensive brands. If affordable brands come in and steal market share, the expensive brands only have themselves to blame by not responding to the market, they had ample time to do so
Another producer in another market aren't going to maintain these markets.
Yes, that's what the Japanese big four did in the 60's and 70's and that's what Royal Enfield is doing now.
Yep I had to wait almost a year for a CRF rally hardly an exotic or desirable bike. Would I have saved the wait for a good reliable Chinese bike straight out of the show room? Probably.
Spot on! Totally agree on the "support regime" bit. CFMoto has some seriously nice bikes.
And since I'm a happy owner of a 2020 Austrian built 790 Duke, I have compared that one with the new CFMoto built 790 Dukes. No difference as the eye can see. Time will tell if they are better/worse.
Thanks!
Reminds me of when Fender started making guitars in Mexico. There was a huge price difference between the American and Mexican built ones.
Steve McQueen rode in the Great Escape, a modified 650 Triumph, similar to what he raced in Baja-not a BMW. Paying the workers well helped Japan innovate on an industrial level, so I don't believe he's as infallible as he portrays himself to be. And who's more competitive than the Japanese motorcycle and automobile industries-while still producing great quality?
(Paying workers the lowest? That almost killed Harley during the AMF years.)
Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
The some Japanese are doing it to themselves, how many times have buyers said your not making the models that we actually want.
It is only a matter of time until these bikes make a big impact on our market.
I am looking forward to the 450 twin!
Might be a nice addition to the stable.
Yes, I hope they bring them to Canada soon.
I never cease to wonder at where you get your (always good) Content ideas from, and here is another example of one.
I was surprised not to hear the name of a brand, that is getting an increasing number of followers and indeed buyers in Europe, especially in the UK. That brand being VOGE, (pronounced "voudge") and it's also the brand that is tempting me to maybe also go "chinese"!
After all..., you've gotta, "go with the Time, or with Time, you'll go".
Go for it 😉 I have a 500 from voge for 2 years now, not a single problem and she looks brand new 😊
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately we are quite isolated from many brands here in Canada. I just saw the Kove Rally 450 at the bike show yesterday. They're being imported here but the closest dealer is over 400km away.
I have 2 bikes, one is a Japanese adventure bike and the other is a cheap Chinese 250cc that I use mostly to ride trails. I can do it with my Japanese bike but I find it a little heavy for that. When you get your Chinese bike you need to go through everything since not everything might be coming perfect out of the factory. And no, not everybody in the west is ready to pay top dollars for top innovation. I personally prefer a bike with really basic functions, no fancy electronics and an affordable price.
Excellent video and great points. I was going to get a transalp and mod it (new suspension and expensive custom tubeless rims/hubs) but now I think I’m going to wait for the ibex 450. It’s not as powerful as the transalp but I’m coming off a KLR650 and the 450 twin will be an improvement anyways. The ibex has just about all the features I view as a unicorn bike plus it’s affordable.
Nice! I hope they arrive soon. I'd love to test one for the channel.
I rode a couple of CFMOTO bikes a couple of weeks ago during a ride day & came away impressed. They've been here in Australia for over 2 decades & are building a solid reputation.
I'm also about to go on a 450km drive in an hour to pick up a 2021 Benelli Lioncino 500 that's done 1,200km for almost half the price of a new one. It's been listed for sale for 2 weeks & the only other one for sale within 500km of me is a 2018 model with 20,000km that's been listed for 7 weeks.
I've had 2 Harley dealerships calling me in the last 2 weeks, practically begging me to come & test ride the new 350 & 500 after I expressed a little interest.
And that's a pretty decent snapshot of where Chinese bikes are in our market. CFMOTO pulled a decent crowd during their ride day, but there's not a lot of interest in any of the others, even with a big name badge slapped on the side. And the Chinese bike industry's reputation isn't helped by Braaap, Sol Invictus & now Mutt Motorcycles all bringing in the same cheap motorcycles from the same factory & slapping their names on the side. These things rust at the sight of a leaky tap & sell for almost pocket change, even when slightly used.
Yes, hopefully the serious brands like CF Moto and Kove separate themselves from the fly by night companies that bring in junk for the lowest prices.
I bought my first Harley Davidson in 2021, I took it straight to the Harley Davidson shop here in Flint, Michigan, they did a 5,000 service on it. I wound up paying almost $2,000.00 for that service, never will I buy another Harley or do business with this dealership again. I won't go into detail about everything that went wrong it would take up too much space in this column.
I gotta say, the Ibex 450 (and CFMoto SxS's) are super tempting. The Ibex could well be my next bike. The only thing that makes me hesitate is not the brand, but the local CFMoto dealer, which does not have a great reputation.
I've seen plenty of CF Moto machines at my local dealer, quality seems fine, prices are a fraction of Japanese brands they sit next to. I agree with your view on the Chinese people being victims of a dictatorship style government, one could go as far to claim both Canada and the US are no different as far as corruption and propaganda. Ride on.
Thanks! Yep, I don't like the direction Canada is going in right now, but there is always a revesion to the mean eventually. Fun fact, Justin Trudeau and the Liberals have lost the popular vote to the Conservatives in Canada in the last two elections. They wont because of vote distribution, not popular support.
Being a born & raised American Citizen I can confirm your comment.
@@DifferentSpokesTV ,
With all due respect to you, Sir, Us 'Yanks' are laughing at Justin Trudeau, like we laugh at Joe Biden, Joe Biden is laughed at more than Justin though.
In my country I've had the same president since I was born. XD
38 years and counting.
Mostly I work and focus on money stuff. Politics bores me. Not much I can do about it without a full commitment of time and energy.
CF MOTO do some good bikes and they got a 4th place at the Isle of man TT races(not sure which category tho) but that isn't too bad👍
I'm glad they're stepping into the racing scene. There is always a lot to be learned when you push your machine to its limits.
Anecdotally in my area CFMOTO just can't manage to sell them they're piling up at the dealership while people wait in a line for a chance to buy litterally anything else. Ultimately they end up selling for 40-50% off after a year or two when the dealer needs them out the door. In turn their resale value is absolutely abysmal so if you're going to buy one you pretty much have to wait for them to go on sale at half price otherwise you're throwing your money in a fire pit. I assume with time as you mention they will build up their reputation but for now I just don't see Honda or Harley getting worried.
I certainly would buy it. I've been sick of the ever larger, ever more comples, ever more $$$$$$$$$$$$ motorcycles from all the major manufacturers for years now. $25 thousand or more for a motorcycle that's insane !
I'm still waiting for more information about cf moto reliability and part availability in the EU. I will do a test ride to form my own opinion
Smart and common sense opinion finally.
Here grab a 🍪 👍🏿
I remember that in the 60-ies Japanese bikes were concidered crappy and cheap. That changed quickly as modern & qualityJapanese bikes appeared outperforming the traditional european brands. I expect similar will happen with the Chinese bikes. The japanese conquered the world with quality. The Chinese conquered with low price and low quality. This is not sustainable on the long run, so the Chinese are forced to improve quality.
NOT GIVING CONSUMERS WHAT THEY NEED IN THE WESTERN WORLD? DO NOT SUPPORT CHINA BY BUYING A CHINESE BRAND IF YOU VALUE DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN LIFE. THIS ISN’T BUYING A 10 CENT CIRCUIT THIS IS A MAJOR PURCHASE AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF OPTIONS. NO CHINESE BRANDS. The level of intelligence...geez.
I'll definitely buy a kove/cfmoto. eagerly waiting for the 450mt to be out for preorder in my country, Kove still far because they don't bring their own brand here, just a partnership with local dealer rebranded still their 500x adventure is doing fine, but yeah resale value is abysmal on these Chinese brands.
Probably. Most of the motorcycle manufacturers have innovated and market researched themselves to a price where buying new will just not happen. Royal Enfield is quality enough and capable enough and something affordable new, which goes a long way to getting a sale.
I think for me the issue I have is with the dealers that are bringing in these chinese brands to Malaysia. I don't think we have an issue with it being a chinese made motorcycle, but it's the after sales service provided by the dealers here. I've heard so many horror stories from taking months to order parts, refusing to fix an issue to unreliable service and advice provided by the dealers. It seems as though they want to just get the bikes out of the door and let the owners deal with the issues themselves. I myself have been contemplating a cfmoto 800nk but should any issues come up, dealing with the authorised dealers are what scares me, not the bike. In turn, it really hurts the brand strength.
My CLX 700 Had beautiful oil at it's break in change and it's a fantastic motorcycle. I like it better than my Harley.
Is your CLX700 the one that looks and sounds like the Harley v-twin? I have a 2004 1200 Sportster now and looking to sell it.
seems like thats what the chinese are really good for. Mass production of more expensive bike category hence making it cheap and affordable to enter. Parts wise, we have yet to see the long term reliability.
Sym has always been reliable like honda in their engines at least but I can't complain i bought a new sym nht 300 for 3700 euros and im happy with it
I would buy a CF Moto but not a first year model. Now riding 2 Suzuki's , just want dependable bikes.
We've been asking for a Kawasaki Versys 400 for years. 😢
I’m not on a budget so I’m never going to pick a Chinese bike over a European or Japanese one. Likely ever.
Kupił bym CF MOTO 450CL-C, ale w Polsce nie ma w ofercie :-( A jak się pojawi to cena będzie bliska ceny Kawasaki vulcan s, co z kolei oznacza że na polskie realia to tanio nie będzie.
Chinese quality has definitely improved. Their blind spot is they choose a distribution system based on the ability to pay rather than customer care in some cases
I live and ride in Indonesia, my riding environment is an "exotic, adv adventure" right out of my door steps. I have locally made CRF150L (12hp), CB150X (14 hp), 300 Rally, Hunter 350, Continental GT650 and just got CFMOTO Papio SS. In my opinion the "major" brands (because of us the riders loosing grip with reality) are not delivering what we want. My CB150X is my favorite bike, $2300 USD here. It is a 80 km/h bike (tops out 120 or something like that). The suspension.....suspends and damps (I added oil to front forks only), the motor pulls to about 8000 rpm, the clutch is perfect, the brakes stop well, gearbox is sweet, comes with center stand, fueling is butter smooth, is comfortable and it has a 450 km plus tank range and most importantly it weights 135 kg wet. My Rally a "want this bike since it was released as a 250". Well this is 90-100 km/h bike, the suspension is a joke (if you weight zero kg, the static sag is already what the rider sag should be), my fueling (I have the Euro 5 ECU) is terrible off idle, side stand too short, no passing light switch (important here where people are trying to kill you), no acc adapter (but they provide acc plug right in the harness). The motor is all choked up, the slipper clutch has issues if you look around........I fixed these issues, $2000 on a budget, it's a fun bike here, but every time I ride my CB150X, I can't help but feel like Honda just doesn't give sh*t when it comes to the Rally. My little Papio SS, it's really good, quality, performance/feel and all the nice features. I keep hoping for the 350-450 Rally, for decent suspension from factory, better fueling and tune of the engine.........I keep coming back to the fact that the Rally is 155 kg wet. Done with that, for my European vacation bike I am getting the MT450, the only miss here is the close to 200 wet weight.
I would definitely buy te CF moto 450, just not the first Gen
Nice thing with this 450 is that the engine has already been employed for a few years in some of their other models - so at least the major teething issues with the most critical component of the bike should be resolved by now.
Yes I would, the quality is mile from what it used to be, and of cause there is some manufactures that still makes that questionable quality, but Volve, BYD, 80% of all parts in cars/bikes etc are made in china, they have learned, and since the government is promoting export with rebates and tax benefits, they will push onto the markets outside of China, and don't forget there is a whole country of that is bigger than all of europe or US for that matter with consumers that will say if its good or not, so can you find the bikes on the domestic market then its a seal of approval.
Yep. We are going to be running the CFMOTO 450MT as our tour bike when it arrives. They make bikes we want that others won’t
Chinese run company, no thanks
Don't blame them for your feelings. Blame your mom.
Yet the device you just used to post is made in China.
Oh the irony......
^Sorry your snarky comparison doesn’t hold water. The phone he’s typing on may have been made in China but under quality control measures and owned by US or Korean management. Ideal? No. But not Chinese “run” companies. I will not support ChiComs either if I can help it. They are not our friends.
On reflection, all major motorbike companies should be offering decent quality motorbikes for way less, considering modern manufacturing and availability of parts and cheaper production costs. I think Chinese bikes have a real shot. If they work on using good, mid-range materials and releasing popular models in a good variety of cc's, they could absolutely rise to the top.
having purchased TWO 883 (a C and an R) i can say that chinese Stormbreaker reliability CANNOT be worst then the afore mentioned bikes.
for instance i bet they won't set in concrete the alarm inside the main electronic mainframe (hopefully they won't put any alarm at all) so the bike will start when asked for.
then we can argue about spare parts costs: will they be as insanely expensive as the ones offered by the american company?
i doubt it very much
If it's an exact clone you may be able to use part from brands like S&S.
What beginner riders want is yesterday's prices with today's safety. It's really easy to do due to major improvements in manufacturing processes like liquid injected molding/ casting. We don't need more farkles. We want reliable but cheap motorcycles. Royal Enfield is the only brand that really offers quality motorcycles at a cheap price. But it seems like Chinese motorcycles seem to be catching up to RE in terms of reliability but still keeping costs down.
Yes, it would be nice to see more of them on the road. It might wake up the established brands and get them making more reasonably priced, smaller bikes.
If they’re built well, why not.
They're not.
@@wrongthinker350did you at least tried one? Like a CFMOTO ,SURON etc?
Japanese are now having certain models built in China, and most all bikes have Chinese parts.
Sorry sir but you are wrong......
@@wrongthinker350 Are you a mechanic or dealer? Or are you just repeating the same crap all the others boomers say?
Following closely. I owned a Sportster HD and the Chinese version looks a dead ringer at a fraction of the cost. Sometimes HD risk losing market share by raising prices to be a marquee branded product. Interesting that the new 350/500 cc new models are Chinese made bikes. Harley had to step up with competitive rates, but they are really expensive for what you are getting. Good video, I'll ride a Royal Enfield any day, around long enough to checkout reliability issues. "Nothing to see here" they look pretty good also.
Thanks! Apparently SWM is charging a pretty penny for the Stormbreaker in Europe, but that's probably because they don't have a million Sportsters for sale on the used market in Italy.
the soviets got the BMW R71 from the germans via the Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact. those bikes became Urals, not Cossacks. the cossack doesn't even resemble a BMW
the completely irrelevant interview you put in demonstrates my point. they are not BMWs, the cossacks are indigenous production that looked like ALL OTHER MOTORCYCLES at the time.
Have ridden many of the new CFMoto bikes, and the Kove, and I gotta say, having lived through the era when the japanese companies were seen as cheap and inferior and only a couple years later were the go to brands for quality......The chinese companies are progressing much faster, and are already, major brands at least, only just below the japanese in quality already. My bet is that within the next very few years, they will be on a completely level field with them, and may, in time, even surpass them. What an amazing time to be a motorcyclist. Doubly so if you are, like myself, particularly into medium displacement bikes.
Yes, I just checked out the Kove Rally at the bike show yesterday and it looked like a pretty cool bike. I'd like to see dealerships pick there up in my area.
Well it is always good to have options but I doubt that anyone with commonsense who can afford better quality and reliable products will choose lesser products. Looks do make a difference for many customers though so...
I saw the Kove Rally 450 at the bike show yesterday and was impressed with the bike. No established brand makes a motorcycle like that.
Right now one of the bikes I can’t seem to let go of and use for doing trips on is my 1998 BMW F650. 420lbs wet with a 48hp Rotax single. With 50/50 tires it gets me everywhere I need to go when on a motorcycle trip. But this CFMoto Ibex450 could be the replacement bike. A little more suspension travel and less vibration for when you are cruising at high speed. I am excited for it and if it turns out as good as it sounds, then I would seriously consider it. We live in a lucky time with all the great bike offerings available. More is always better!
Yes, BMW abandoned the true do it all market when they went to an 800 and now a 900. Those are great bikes but they are too expensive and too nice to go dropping on dirt.
Agree! It's a pro-choice world and having more choices will engage a healthy buyers market.
I thought Steve McQueen rode a Triumph in the Great Escape.Especially in the jumping scene with.stunt man Bud Skins in the saddle.
You thought right, Steve McQueen's favorite bike was a 650 Bonneville twin. I believe Bud Ekins used a Triumph 650 Tiger which only has a single carb, to make the jump over the fence.
Very interesting. Not quite ready to give up my old V-Strom yet, but when the time comes to jump back into the market, these bikes would definitely get some consideration.
My main issue was the servicing. No one wanted to service the bike I started on (sinnis 125) and it was not reliable at all. I would absolutely buy a Chinese bike again but not for a few years until the kinks are ironed out and garages start to accept them for servicing
I owned cfmoto 650MT , and its great machine ....
I sure hope not. But the MT/Ibex450 looks very tempting. Hopefully Susuki takes note and gives us a DRZ450 and a DR Big.
Yes when china improve their mc cf moto 700 transmission
The biggest problem with Chinese bikes is the other Chinese manufacturers that are not so worried about quality. Everybody had been suckered with a sub par product from China with no compensation. Once bitten, twice shy. I do credit import car makers for the fully optioned vehicles we have today. They usually had three models to choose from, a basic, mid and fully optioned model while North American makes were basically "pick a part". At one time, a rear bumper was an option on a Chevrolet pickup.
As recently as 1991 GMC delivered their S-15 pick-ups without a rear bumper, how do I know? That's the way I got mine from the dealership.
I think Royal Enfield is making the best midweight motorcycles around the Chinese need to pay attention to them
They're really not. They're building the most characterful bikes if you like that sort of thing, but they're really not the best, They are cool though
Yes, RE may the shock that will will snap the Japanese and Euro brands out of their complacency. They make bikes to be ridden by regular people, not extravagant show pieces and status symbols. I like their vibe.
cant wait to test that 450mt out honestly
Yeah, definitely a bike with a lot of potential.
If the big Japanese four and the other european Competitors continue to sell ridiculously expensive motorcycles It think Yes, China may take over. Right know Royal Enfield are doing great were it comes to modern Classics, prices are right and the reliability its good, Benelli is also doing very well, in my country some of there adventure models are also being used everyday by the local wardens and so far I didn't hear any complaints.
In all fairness to the big brands, maintaining good affordable prices is not a easy task but I also blame some of the stealerships that sometimes they sell there products at a not very fair prices.
It's not hard to undercut "quality" with "finished price."
They've been doing it to America for decades and decades, importing most everything to us and exporting most of our money elsewhere. At the root of the entire globalist fiasco is the currency printers, currency loaners, the chief devaluation thugs.
They are very far away to be a real competitor, they need unique good looking bikes and to be better in some areas than their competitors, but they fail at both
How? Like how
You might want to look at their market share around the world, and then see where it's going to head in the USA like it has everywhere else
@@chrispekel5709 market share in poor countries doesnt have to reflect in rich countries
@@marcos1669 Do you think Americans are rich?
@@chrispekel5709 more than someone from Tahiland for sure
Great unbiased fact filled video, unlike many others reviewers which are more about race then the bikes.
You made great points about Chinese products today as Japanese and Korean products yesteryear. Fair competition is a good thing at all times.
Thanks! More competition means the consumer wins.
Purchased a Kove Ralley yesterday after studying all the TH-cam videos and physically looking at the bike. One of the more convincing reviews was done by Jimmy Lewis, who rode the wheels off one for 1500 miles. He drained the oil when finished and stated it was the cleanest he had ever witnessed. Seems Kove has absolutely up the game.
this is one of the most informative videos to date ;; it has taken the chinese a long time to suss out the western market , but they have learnt , harley put their eggs in the posh basket and no one wants them ;;; the main problem still with chinese brands is spares , if you live in a highly populated area there might be a dealer , but in rural areas they are worse than than the rest which are already bad enough ;;
Yeah, dealership network is always an issue with new brands.
CF's problem is their dealer network. The only CF dealer near me is a ghetto used car lot, one of those buy here, pay here places for folks with bad credit. They sell CF atv's and sxs's. They do not sell the motorcycles and seem unaware of the line up. They don't have a service dept. No other dealer is interested because they are sitting on the brand.
Yes, a good dealer network is cruicial for success in the west.
I am waiting for my Dakar Kove 450
It's all well said except one basic fact. There is no brand nor motorcycle manufacturer named "cossack" and it never was. And most definitely it didn't turn into "Ural". What you called cossack is a bunch of various russian brands which were renamed by the local importer to the new name which sounded better for english speaking market. The Ural brand though exists and it is the motorcycle which came from IMZ factory and it started live as the OHV version of M72 and was initially called M61. Cheers mate
The big japanese did this to themselves. Even a 300cc class dualsport is 8600$ OTD and requires you to upgrade it. Its rediculous, tenere 700 are like 12k OTD lol
Excellent video. I really like the added history and politics too. 😃
Thanks! Plus a hot babe modelling the bikes!
@@DifferentSpokesTV Haha, thank you very much. 🥰
I see what you're saying about the founder of Kove. I don't know, so I'm going to ask. Is Kove using fair labor practices? I would be willing to give the Kove brand a chance if they are paying their labor force fair wages with safe working conditions.
The answer is no, but so is the case for most Chinese products, do people really care? or people just pretend to care when it's politically convenient? If Westerners care so much about fair labor practices maybe they should build a lot more factories locally and hire happy local workers and deal with the inflated prices instead of closing down all the factories and ask the Chinese to export cheap and cheerful goods.
I don't mean to be critical, but there's no fair labor practices outside of a few selected, privileged countries and most of them don't exist in Asia. Not even Japan if I'm honest.
If you think these are made with slave labour you've been propaganised. I would bet money the factory is no worse than any Japanese factory operating in Thailand or Indoneisa. If they don't provide decent conditions workers will quit, just like they would in any other country. I'm not an apologist for the thuggery of the CCP but people really have a skewed vision of what China is really like
I don't know those details about Kove. The unfortunate thing is that almost everything we buy is made overseas these days as our manufacturing sector was gutted in the 90's by free trade agreements. As a result we have cheap goods and crappy service sector jobs, and the Chinese have factory jobs and possibly terrible conditions. Many Chinese people will tell you that overall, life in China has greatly improved since the 80's.
There's reasons they are so cheap. Cheap labor. Government subsidies.
@@holmiumh,
It's our Crooked Government, they're worse than the Mafia.
Some really interesting points made here. One way forward is to do what some UK firms have done and that is collaborate with Chinese companies ie using their engines etc.I had a Yamaha YBR 125 and assumed it was Japanese but it was Chinese built. The British motorcycle industry was decimated by the Japanese in the '70s. Could the Chinese repeat this with the Japanese. Having said that the Japanese keep innovating. You make an interesting argument about the Chinese Sportster clone. The next few years will be interesting that's for sure. Keep the videos coming.
Certainly, I'd buy a Chinese or Indian manufactured bike. I may not have ten years ago, but they have upped their manufacturing game. I now look at "non-traditional" bikes for innovation at good prices. The Kove 450 is a great example of this. Parts and service availability will follow. I remember the uproar over a single Ford employee driving a Honda car to work in the late 70's. That was front-page news in Detroit in the days of newspaper networking, auto unions, and lumbering American cars. They even shot a couple of the poor things on the highway
I love the excitement of all these new Chinese bikes coming into market. Most of them are crap, but there are some gems in there. Either way, I think they have the best start up menu, lights, etc when you first turn the key on. After the bugs are worked out and the cream rises to the top, we will know what the new Big 4 competition will be. It's exciting and feels like the 1970's all over again. EDIT : Totally agree with your opinion regarding the people vs the country that rules over them around 11:45.
I think buying Chineese bike funds their millitary.
To some extend for sure. It's from taxes after all
I wish I knew where they have a dealership for the bikes that look like the Harley Sportster, I'd like to take one for a test ride, maybe buy one...or two. Can anyone tell me where I can find any of these dealerships here in Michigan, possibly? Anyone?
Keeway are another good Chinese brand. Their Superlight is probably the best sub 3k cruiser on the market and the new 300cc V-twin cruiser is much faster and better looking than anything in the RE range.
I bought my first Chinese bike in 2007, a Lifan 200cc dual sport. I put 53,000 miles on it, a very reliable little bike. Since then I've owned several Chinese bikes including a Zongshen 200, a Hensim 250, and a Taotao quad. I also have an old trail 90 with a Lifan 140cc engine and a 200cc Chinese scooter. All very reliable. Any bike I buy in the future will likely be Chinese.
I rode Ibex. Spent a few moments to come up with cons...and I could not. China, along with India, is now one of key producers of motorcycle industry. Well, more competitions, better for all consumers :D
I am from Portugal and i’m waiting for my Cfmoto Ibex 450MT to arrive.. sorry but good product with a good price is what we want and the chineses Brand are starting to give us that
Got 1000 miles on my MT450 here in Europe. Fun, comfortable, good suspension, littel bit of "fancy" display and all the adjustments. Overall quality way up there (some fasteners are not quite 100% Japanese). Good power but crap emissions dictated on off idle fueling. Biggest compliment, short gearing, 65-70 mph at 7000 rpm. The engine has plenty of power for taller 5th and 6th.
I bought a cfmoto 800mt 4 weeks ago (June 2024),, and I'm major impressed with the build quality and the ride,, obviously reliability has yet to be determined iv got 1600kms on it as all so far but it's fantastic looking and fantastic to ride,, I paid €11890 here in the Republic of Ireland (South) , it came with full luggage for that price and a 4yr warranty.
It is a trust issue, but CFMOTO 450CLC and KOVE 450RR are less than 60% cost of Honda Rebel 500 and Kawasaki ZX4R in China. With better service and easy parts supply, so we would like to take a risk of those low reputation brands. I can see that in most of western country where CFMOTO has same price tag with equivalent Japanese bikes. well, CFMOTO 450 are actully good, even better than some of them, but those Japanese brands were proven, they have strong reputation, plus those second hand Japanese bikes are solid and cheap. I wonder how they gonna compete in western world?