Great video! I think that there's a big distinction between fandom and community that you touched on: Fandom, to me, feels like this all encompassing internet hive mind where people feel they *have* to agree with the majority of a groups opinion or you can't consider yourself a fan/part of the group. Fandom doesn't really feel natural because people bing/'consume' as much as possible and tick boxes just to say they're a part of a group (like you said in the video). Fandom is chasing trends. Trend chasing has been a thing since the beginning of time but the internet has allowed us to delve so rapidly into our own niches and subcultures which might've resulted in modern fandom culture somehow. A lot of younger people engage with media this way now and I genuinely believe it's because they (we?) are rapidly losing our third spaces and ability to explore our identities/interests outside of the Internet. From a sociological standpoint it's pretty interesting (and sad) to think about
Thank you for this. VERY important distinction. Fandom is more about consumption as a form of identity. More about proving yourself to the in-group and less about having your own personal relationship with art. And yes, the way the internet has overexposed us to what everyone around us is consuming has made it more tempting to constantly chase trends. Before the internet, or even in the pre-algorithm internet era, the exposure to trends wasn’t as fast and frequent as it is now, there were more moments where your main exposure to culture was your local, immediate circle or things you seeked out when local wasn’t fulfilling enough. Of course things like TV and magazines existed to “universalize” culture more too. But we weren’t connected to those things constantly in our day to day the same way we are with the internet, plus those outlets weren’t as interactive. You can’t talk to a TV, so compartmentalizing it from your identity was easier. Hard to word this perfectly but basically, the “hive mind” wasn’t as accessible, so people’s interaction with art was more personal and LIVED.
i've definitely been turned away from games and media i genuinely liked because of bad experiences within a community i relate to your jock tale because there are moments where when i play a niche or obscure game i run into people who think i'm too "dumb" or "cool" to enjoy it when i'm not even thinking abt any of that, i just want to play my addictive anime fighters with others!! that said i am learning to enjoy the games for what they are, appreciating the art behind them and letting people who do see me come up for games. i think we just live in a very socially awkward generation because 90% of people spend most of their time on their keyboards instead of socializing irl so sometimes people can misunderstand each other.
This is such a great response. And yeah I do think the social awkwardness of this generation can make a lot of community interactions unpleasant. For gamers in particular especially because they’ve traditionally been a more anti-social group already.
I've also noticed a lot of people are looking for "leaders" for their hobby too. They wanna feel included and there's nothing wrong with that, but they're looking for someone to follow behind without really engaging first and foremost for themselves.
THANK YOU for bringing this up because I see this often in this space. What's even worse is that I think some people are highly aware of this and want to try to be the "leader" that dictates how people engage with the game. Won't say any names but I saw this in the Armored Core community when 6 came out. People trying to make rules for what the "correct" way to get into the series was.
I honestly don't worry about the community. Then again I got an old person's personality. I just want news and info and to occasionally chat with a random bloke or blokette about it.
First off let me say that this was a banger of a video. To give my to sense on the matter, people have an odd obsession of wanting to feel validated for having an opinion on a game and having others echo it. People either feel like personal validation isn't enough for one to either like it dislike a game, this is why reviews and videos essays are so prevalent. Another reason is that folks are afraid of reevaluating something on their own merits instead of opinions imposed on themselves
To answer your question, for the most part (like 95% of the time) community will never affect how I feel about a game. The 5% outlier, is if its a multiplayer game where you may get sent hate messages (I've had that happen with Dead by Daylight & Blazblue Continuum Shift). Or if someone is hacking/cheating in the game (Had this happen with Dead by Daylight). But vice versa, I also see many more positive messages from Dead by Daylight and meet some really helpful people. But if the game is single player, I can't imagine the community affecting your want to play it unless it's like the game's creators you have issue with. Whenever I see an online post saying "I was gonna playing [X], but now I wont because of the community" it feels like someone who never cared and just wanted attention. Because I feel if you wanted to play something, then nothing would stop you (whether it be community or needing to emulate). I will note there are some games where it feels like you can't mention anything without people bringing up the same old topics (Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Stellar Blade, Night Trap, Final Fantasy VII Remake, etc). Or the fandom has elitists (Xenoblade, Persona, Final Fantasy, Silent HIll, Yakuza, etc) where any discussion is more of an echo chamber. But none of that effects how I feel about the game since my feelings on it are my own. Side note while I'm at it, I hate the "Your favorite TH-camr gave you that opinion" argument because NO ONE applies that claim if for the opinion is positive. If the opinion is positive then it's "this person figured it out".
Oh it definitely feels like those people that claim they won’t play a single player game because the community “turned them off” are just trying to justify feelings they already had about the game And thats a good point on the TH-camr thing. I rarely hear people say it for positive things. The only example I can think of is maybe Chugga influencing people to play Xenoblade?? But even then, no one will just ASSUME that’s the case every time someone says they enjoy Xenoblade. So not sure it even applies there actually
@@jiikae I only ever see the "TH-camr gave you that opinion" for negativity. Like if someone dislikes Xenoblade 2, then some people assume the person is a fan of Dunkey (who also disliked the game) and never played the game themselves. Chugga I've seen used to say how people "can't complain about Xenoblade 2's tutorials anymore" (even though Chugga explaining the game doesn't suddenly mean Xenoblade 2 has a good tutorial). But if someone disliked FF7 Remake, then fans of the game would suggest they watch a theory video by Maximillian Dood because "he figured the Remake Project out". When in reality, Max Dood is another FF7 fan talking about something he love and never pretends like he has all the answers. To this day people still blame The Spoony One (content creator known for his videos on Final Fantasy & Ultima) for the negative reputations of Final Fantasy 8 & 13. When those videos are SO OLD by this point that I doubt that's why those games are still divisive. On top of newer fans in recent years talking about how much they enjoy FF8 & FF13, but those fans get accused of "You played them as a kid, doesn't count" (when ironically the people saying that also have their favorite FF games from their childhood).
this has definitely been something on my mind that I hadn't given too much attention. ty for talking about this, it's cool to hear other people go into detail about it. oddly enough, this is something even prevalent in single player games. like shoutout to the number of people who avoided undertale because of its fanbase around release. At first I didn't really like the idea of people choosing to play or avoid games on this basis, but now I oddly respect it more after this vid. "People's desire to feel part of a trending conversation...their enjoyment is going to suffer when the conversation no longer serves them- even if nothing changed about the game itself." 100% agree and that's what I didn't like about holding that opinion; however, this is still a perfectly valid means of engaging in games. Like if someone just wants to play games for reasons outside of the game, in this case if others are playing it, then that's totally fine. Although hating on a game due to its community, or thinking games only have worth when they are flavor of the month, yeah that's wack lol
Oh 100% I think if it’s innocent then people can want to play something because a game is socially relevant. Kinda like going bowling with your friends just to socialize It only BECOMES a problem when people aren’t self aware about it or get sucked into negativity because of their need to feel a part of something
I tend to stay away from fandoms and communities since I feel like if you enjoy the game, you should not let a community ruin it for you. Xenoblade is a big one for me, I love Xeno and in recent years that community on Twitter has been a huge problem with people getting a little too much at times. So much so that I’ve ignored it altogether
I was around for the rise of Xenoblade Twitter and now I am BLISSFULLY unaware of what goes on over there. I love just enjoying the series in my own space
Oh yeah and concerning the identity aspect as a black woman, the craziest reactions I had was people thinking I can't possible be really interested games, to thinking I was a white man or just a man in general, and to be fair back in day I let them think that I was a dude becuase other women in the community told me it was safest way to interact (and they were right unfortunately). I get creepy, or just outright racist dms nowadays. It doesnt stop me from gaming or interacting but it does make me far more wary of community in general.
I've SEEN IT with my own two eyes. Black woman get a lot of shit for literally just existing in gaming/nerdy spaces. Whether they want to just be included or even when they just create THEIR OWN SPACES FOR THEMSELVES. It's like they can't win. It's ridiculous.
I do wish you touched more on communities becoming toxic! It can be exhausting when community members see the scene as monolithic and turn to berating anyone who does not share an opinion with them. My experience with ********** felt like being ina group full of nerds that only knew how to bully people with different opinions than them because that’s how they’d always been treated. I still enjoy fighting games but I have taken a break from competitive scene in general. I do think they rely heavily on community engagement if you want to engage with the competitive aspect of the game. Thanks to most games having rollback even old games can be played without using discord to find matches so the games can definitely still be enjoyed without engaging with competition, and I think especially with fighting games it’s important to ask your self why you want to engage with serious competition in the first place.
Yeah. The topic is definitely multi-layered and I hate that you had to go through that. A lot of nerds feel like these spaces are their opportunity to be the bullies that they couldn’t be in high school
Real Talk the Hoyoverse, Sonic and even Nintendo & Sony is where I personally encountered that mentality. When it comes to Sonic and Hoyoverse you state a complaint about a game or how they do things you’re treated like the enemy especially the fans of Hoyoverse. (I just don’t like that those games are F2P and how it’s set up. Like it feels like an honest console game that you stripped off things purposely to make a F2P game which ruins or halts the game making them borderline tedious which SUCKS because I do see good games in them) for Nintendo and Sony’s case if you speak anything that isn’t the obvious go to titles you’re seen as the weirdo in the group. That said I still enjoy Nintendo, Sony and Sonic games I’m just not paying much attention to the community or very cautious of WHO I speak to about them. 😅
Oh I’ve DEFINITELY heard things about the Sonic community in particular. They are notorious. I’m most familiar with the Nintendo community and yeah. If you don’t have a certain taste in particular types of Nintendo games, you don’t really fit in. Luckily I never really cared about fitting in with that community even though I consider myself a Nintendo fan 😂
It mostly goes like this: Community doesn't matter if you just want to play a game, but it DOES matter if you want to discuss it and interact. Some gaming communities are outright unbearable and, more often than not, ruin any enjoyment you might have with a game. Learned that from experience. No matter the reasons, some communities are not worth joining in.
One way that I determine/deal with this is via something a close friend told me: If you love the craft (in this case the "craft" would be the game) more than you dislike the people/community, then stick with it. When your dislike for the community eclipses the love that you have for the game, its probably time to disconnect altogether.
In my personal opinion if you like a game you should not let a community ruin it for you keep playing it if you really enjoy it especially if you're new to the community
For me, community only affects me on multiplayer games where I am forced to interact with other people tbh. Idc about single player games. If I like a game enough, I will still play it. But, for multiplayer games, it's a bit harder if everyone is rude. I agree with the video! Great watch!
Sf6 is pretty popular but at my locals it’s less than 10 people a week I show up when I can I will say community can made the difference for you to show up often but you have to want to play and compete at the game at the end of the day to show up at all
Really? Slight tangent but thats actually pretty surprising depending on your city. Would be curious about what fighting game is more popular in your region. Sounds like SF6’s activity has cooled down a bit.
For me it depends on either singleplayer or multi. For singleplayer i avoid them like the plague (ex: i no longer join smt servers because i find most of the figure heads in the community to be massive pricks) but it doesn't deter my enjoyment of the series as a whole. For multiplayer it different and i think there is when the community can theoretically ruin a game, this especially applies to less popular fgs where the online is a complete ghost town, so your only option is discords. What I'm sayin damn i do not feel like joining the bbcf server to play some matches 💀
I HATE having to go to Discord for matches lol. If I really really love the game I’ll just force myself to do it anyway but man it’s so tedious when I just want to turn on the game and play lol
This is a bit long - your video did prompt some thoughts! I feel like this video only addresses a few types of "I don't want to play a game because of its community" folks. A lot of the time, I don't see people saying it out of a desire for social media points or something, but for another reason: Collocating the two. I truly don't think it's some obsession, but the games they're looking at triggering certain community-based memories, which then promotes avoidance. I don't think there's much wrong with this: Sometimes you'll just see a lot of bad things (see: 2021-2022 Smash) and then get switched off. I mean, there's plenty of people who avoid Sonic - and especially Sonic Forces - because of years of fandom stigma. It takes more mental stack to play a game while shutting out community matters; as social individuals, we will think of people when we play games. I don't think it takes an obsessive personality to land yourself in this. For a positive example, when I play Animal Crossing, I'll often think of my childhood friend who introduced me to the series. Isn't that nice? Or is it also obsession? I don't think so. In the most extreme of cases - and this is by no means a full equivalence, there's a lot to it as a sufferer myself - this is why PTSD happens. You have a profoundly horrible, traumatic experience, which your brain will think could genuinely kill you, and then you relive the experience in your head over and over again, to the point of associating similar things with said trauma, triggering the results of the relived experience. I think there's good and bad uses of the "I don't want to play a game because of its community" thing. It can be as simple as "I want to be part of a conversation and this conversation doesn't serve me", "I want the game to be socially viable", etc, which are all consistent with "poser" personalities, but it can also be "I tend to think of bad aspects of the community when I play this, and shutting that out of my mind adds to the mental stack". With the FGC example, I think this actually becomes a lot more pertinent, since fighting games are inherently 2-player experiences. It is malleable - for example, I usually only play MultiVersus with close friends without interacting widely - but the larger community does end up being part of the point if you want to get better; for example, if you want better opponents or to learn more. It's difficult to just be a hermit, the "don't let the community define you" thing really only goes so far. I did it back in my vsav days and can definitely say it stunted my improvement for a long time. We often talk about LAN tournaments being where the best players are, describing the opponent's reactions to certain things and the mental stack as people crowd around your setup - wouldn't this end up contradicting the "community doesn't matter" narrative if we wanted people to play? People often turn around and smack WiFi warriors over inherent input delay.
It’s always pretty annoying when *that one* youtube video or meme comes up and gives a game way more attention than it was ready for… When communities get overinflated and misrepresented with annoying people looking for attention is rough. Metal Gear Rising, JoJo, the weirdos on reddit who do nothing but complain about Helldivers 2. You sort of have to erase your ties with it for a while and wait for it all to die down before you can start safely engaging with it again.
LOL yeah. The false sense of inspiration is funny. Though I do wanna add. Sometimes people do become truly inspired and become a drummer, basketball player or whatever 😂
for me personally a bad community just makes it hard for me to talk about a game some examples i have are hollow knight and ultrakill, both these games are very spectacular and are very enjoyable, but between the very condescending minority of ultrakill community and then (personally) cringe hollow knight fandom, it just makes talking about the games to strangers just not worth it its like a weird version of awkwardness
I often wonder if it's a generational gap to this discussion because there's definitely more of an expectation amongst younger folks that by consuming a particular piece of media you're a part of it's fandom, and all it entails. The concept of just liking something without being part of a community can definitely seem a lot more foreign when you grew up with social media as long you can remember and your peers have strong, active opinions on the Undertale and/or Sonic fandoms, for example.
Hmmmmmm!!! I can definitely see where you’re coming from here. It does seem like social media and general art consumption are more “linked” when it comes to younger generations. I’d even say something as simple as younger people growing up with the “share” button on consoles + streaming has had an impact on how that generation understands gaming. Less of an activity for personal fulfillment and more of an activity to connect with people around you. Interesting response.
I don’t think I’m in the matrix enough enough to base my enjoyment around an online community. Otherwise I wouldn’t play Sonic or KH since they’re always negative about something. Plus I grew up not knowing any opinions about a game and I grew up playing games way later than release so I can avoid FOMO as well I even ignore this stuff with fighters idk it’s very alien to me And that jocks story was crazy
Yeah I can speak for myself and say in my adulthood I definitely started slipping into the “matrix” in my 20s Lately though I’ve found a better balance between community engagement and just minding my business. But its mainly because life happened and I’m too BUSY to even keep up with all the outside noise nowadays 😂
Lol idk if it’s funny or kinda sad that I have a similar experience with trying to approach a group of white dudes playing their portable games (3DS Monster Hunter during high school lunch in my case). Although they didn’t come right out and ask shouldn’t I be with the jocks lmao that’s wild. As far as the video topic goes: I am active in zero communities these days and it’s glorious. I understand some communities can leave a poor impression, and they can be somewhat important for games with an active online component; but for single player games? Why does how the fan base carries on matter for those? It has no bearing on the quality of a title or franchise so there’s no point wasting energy over the subreddit being obsessed with a dumb meme or smth or parroting the same opinion everywhere. Most I’ll do is dip in for general opinions and then I’m out haha.
Nerds can be aggressively anti-social when they see “outsiders”, it’s really weird And yeah I find myself being more alone these days when it comes to the games I play and less in touch with the communities at large. I’m definitely aware of what goes on but I have less energy to be deep into it all like I used to. It gets old after a while.
As an unabashed introvert, I really don't care about how a community behaves since I'm gonna ignore them anyway. That said, I do think devs should be careful what kind of community they build around their games because in addition to being toxic to newcomers, it might also influence a dev's decision making through their loud demands and as we all know, people rarely know what they actually want and thus the game design might get more narrow minded, sterile and worse.
Ok this is a VERY interesting angle that I didn’t think about. Devs can foster a toxic community and THAT can indirectly create a negative feedback loop. That is something to think about actually that I didn’t consider
Great point! A good example of what you were talking about: The Tekken dev team has done a pretty good job of building and catering to their vocal audience (tekken players complain A LOT) Harada (the director of tekken) will earnestly write out short essays on twitter about the development/balancing of the series while also pointing towards his 'dont ask me for shit' slogan as a joke. He makes it clear that they're willing to be transparent and listen to constructive community feedback while also calling out anyone who's just complaining. This approach has kept the community pretty level headed on Twitter
Honestly some of it depends on game, multiplayer games absolutely are such that the community matters. But like single player games? I understand a community turning someone off from a game before getting into it by making it sound unappealing, but you really lose the ability to earnestly talk about a game itself by not playing it and spouting others opinions/how others made you feel about it if we're real, and getting into a game *for* that community instead of for your enjoyment first and foremost sounds just weird. And maybe its just me who enjoys media people often have bad faith surface-level discourse about and barely even try (stuff like VNs) but community for single player games is not really something I feel that necessary to the experience. And people obsessing over player counts is so weird to me. I've been playing TF2 for over 15 years off and on, people have been shouting "dead game" for ages, and like I really don't care because as long as I can get into a lobby (that isn't infested by bots, thankfully that's being dealt with these days) and play a game I'm having fun with it. Maybe it's a bit privileged since TF2 still sees 5 digit playerbase size, but who gives a damn how many people are playing a game if you can still regularly find a lobby with new players? But the people who truly weird me out are the ones who say that they let a community change their opinion about a game they already liked purely off being toxic. Also as an aside, Discord kinda sucks for fan communities lol and I say this as someone who runs several there
The people who say it for single-player games are definitely strange to me. I’ve heard people say it in those situations enough times to wonder what the thought process is behind that. Maybe a sense of shame for liking something that people you don’t like enjoy? Idk its weird.
Commity is essentially irrelevant to my enjoyment of a game. I know what I like and a game's placement in "THE CONVERSATION" doesn't change that at all. The discussion of games via podcasts, TH-cam videos, Twitter, etc., can be enjoyable as well, but it's a separate activity.
I 100% agree. I ALMOST wanna go a step further and say it barely matters for multiplayer for me too these days, even with my negative experiences. There are multiplayer games where I don’t really care for the vibe of the community but I can pretty much still play against people online as if they were non-human bots pretty much lol
@@jiikae Lol. I was thinking that multiplayer may be the place it matters most, but you're right. If you can play off mic, the interaction doesn't matter. Squad based games are probably the ones where you can't really disengage like that since communication is more integral.
Short answer from another oldhead FGC enjoyer, yes, community matters. A games community can be the difference from you just playing the game and you attending IRL events with the opportunity to meet people in person.
it’s something i’ve witnessed to an IMO weird degree - like skipping or not talking about primarily single-player games (undertale, dark souls) or even TV SHOWS (breaking bad) because you perceive the fanbase as annoying. i’m reading into it too much but from conversations i’ve had with people in that position, it almost comes across like they had no interest in the first place and are simply coming up with a “rational” sounding reason. your impression of the thing is entirely surface-level and you don’t wanna research it more, but you feel it’s too popular not for you to comment on. also i couldn’t help but remember the legendary jiikae tweet where you quoted one of those anniversary posts for pokemon x/y with a single word: “yuck.”
Great video! I think that there's a big distinction between fandom and community that you touched on:
Fandom, to me, feels like this all encompassing internet hive mind where people feel they *have* to agree with the majority of a groups opinion or you can't consider yourself a fan/part of the group. Fandom doesn't really feel natural because people bing/'consume' as much as possible and tick boxes just to say they're a part of a group (like you said in the video). Fandom is chasing trends.
Trend chasing has been a thing since the beginning of time but the internet has allowed us to delve so rapidly into our own niches and subcultures which might've resulted in modern fandom culture somehow.
A lot of younger people engage with media this way now and I genuinely believe it's because they (we?) are rapidly losing our third spaces and ability to explore our identities/interests outside of the Internet. From a sociological standpoint it's pretty interesting (and sad) to think about
Thank you for this. VERY important distinction. Fandom is more about consumption as a form of identity. More about proving yourself to the in-group and less about having your own personal relationship with art.
And yes, the way the internet has overexposed us to what everyone around us is consuming has made it more tempting to constantly chase trends. Before the internet, or even in the pre-algorithm internet era, the exposure to trends wasn’t as fast and frequent as it is now, there were more moments where your main exposure to culture was your local, immediate circle or things you seeked out when local wasn’t fulfilling enough.
Of course things like TV and magazines existed to “universalize” culture more too. But we weren’t connected to those things constantly in our day to day the same way we are with the internet, plus those outlets weren’t as interactive. You can’t talk to a TV, so compartmentalizing it from your identity was easier.
Hard to word this perfectly but basically, the “hive mind” wasn’t as accessible, so people’s interaction with art was more personal and LIVED.
"Shouldn't you be with the jocks?" THAT'S WILD LMAO
They said it with no hesitation. I was taken ABACK 😭
i've definitely been turned away from games and media i genuinely liked because of bad experiences within a community
i relate to your jock tale because there are moments where when i play a niche or obscure game i run into people who think i'm too "dumb" or "cool" to enjoy it when i'm not even thinking abt any of that, i just want to play my addictive anime fighters with others!!
that said i am learning to enjoy the games for what they are, appreciating the art behind them and letting people who do see me come up for games. i think we just live in a very socially awkward generation because 90% of people spend most of their time on their keyboards instead of socializing irl so sometimes people can misunderstand each other.
This is such a great response. And yeah I do think the social awkwardness of this generation can make a lot of community interactions unpleasant. For gamers in particular especially because they’ve traditionally been a more anti-social group already.
I've also noticed a lot of people are looking for "leaders" for their hobby too. They wanna feel included and there's nothing wrong with that, but they're looking for someone to follow behind without really engaging first and foremost for themselves.
THANK YOU for bringing this up because I see this often in this space. What's even worse is that I think some people are highly aware of this and want to try to be the "leader" that dictates how people engage with the game. Won't say any names but I saw this in the Armored Core community when 6 came out. People trying to make rules for what the "correct" way to get into the series was.
Yooo "Obsessive over steam charts" if somebody hits you with the steam charts right away RED FLAG!!!! fr fr
Those types are ANNOYING
I honestly don't worry about the community. Then again I got an old person's personality. I just want news and info and to occasionally chat with a random bloke or blokette about it.
First off let me say that this was a banger of a video.
To give my to sense on the matter, people have an odd obsession of wanting to feel validated for having an opinion on a game and having others echo it. People either feel like personal validation isn't enough for one to either like it dislike a game, this is why reviews and videos essays are so prevalent. Another reason is that folks are afraid of reevaluating something on their own merits instead of opinions imposed on themselves
Thank you!
And yeah the validation aspect of “community” is definitely an interesting one. For some people, the validation aspect IS the hobby
To answer your question, for the most part (like 95% of the time) community will never affect how I feel about a game. The 5% outlier, is if its a multiplayer game where you may get sent hate messages (I've had that happen with Dead by Daylight & Blazblue Continuum Shift). Or if someone is hacking/cheating in the game (Had this happen with Dead by Daylight). But vice versa, I also see many more positive messages from Dead by Daylight and meet some really helpful people.
But if the game is single player, I can't imagine the community affecting your want to play it unless it's like the game's creators you have issue with. Whenever I see an online post saying "I was gonna playing [X], but now I wont because of the community" it feels like someone who never cared and just wanted attention. Because I feel if you wanted to play something, then nothing would stop you (whether it be community or needing to emulate).
I will note there are some games where it feels like you can't mention anything without people bringing up the same old topics (Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Stellar Blade, Night Trap, Final Fantasy VII Remake, etc). Or the fandom has elitists (Xenoblade, Persona, Final Fantasy, Silent HIll, Yakuza, etc) where any discussion is more of an echo chamber. But none of that effects how I feel about the game since my feelings on it are my own.
Side note while I'm at it, I hate the "Your favorite TH-camr gave you that opinion" argument because NO ONE applies that claim if for the opinion is positive. If the opinion is positive then it's "this person figured it out".
Oh it definitely feels like those people that claim they won’t play a single player game because the community “turned them off” are just trying to justify feelings they already had about the game
And thats a good point on the TH-camr thing. I rarely hear people say it for positive things. The only example I can think of is maybe Chugga influencing people to play Xenoblade?? But even then, no one will just ASSUME that’s the case every time someone says they enjoy Xenoblade. So not sure it even applies there actually
@@jiikae I only ever see the "TH-camr gave you that opinion" for negativity. Like if someone dislikes Xenoblade 2, then some people assume the person is a fan of Dunkey (who also disliked the game) and never played the game themselves. Chugga I've seen used to say how people "can't complain about Xenoblade 2's tutorials anymore" (even though Chugga explaining the game doesn't suddenly mean Xenoblade 2 has a good tutorial).
But if someone disliked FF7 Remake, then fans of the game would suggest they watch a theory video by Maximillian Dood because "he figured the Remake Project out". When in reality, Max Dood is another FF7 fan talking about something he love and never pretends like he has all the answers.
To this day people still blame The Spoony One (content creator known for his videos on Final Fantasy & Ultima) for the negative reputations of Final Fantasy 8 & 13. When those videos are SO OLD by this point that I doubt that's why those games are still divisive. On top of newer fans in recent years talking about how much they enjoy FF8 & FF13, but those fans get accused of "You played them as a kid, doesn't count" (when ironically the people saying that also have their favorite FF games from their childhood).
"Shouldn't you be with the jocks?" is insane to say to someone.
Nasty behavior forreal SMH
this has definitely been something on my mind that I hadn't given too much attention. ty for talking about this, it's cool to hear other people go into detail about it. oddly enough, this is something even prevalent in single player games. like shoutout to the number of people who avoided undertale because of its fanbase around release.
At first I didn't really like the idea of people choosing to play or avoid games on this basis, but now I oddly respect it more after this vid. "People's desire to feel part of a trending conversation...their enjoyment is going to suffer when the conversation no longer serves them- even if nothing changed about the game itself." 100% agree and that's what I didn't like about holding that opinion; however, this is still a perfectly valid means of engaging in games. Like if someone just wants to play games for reasons outside of the game, in this case if others are playing it, then that's totally fine. Although hating on a game due to its community, or thinking games only have worth when they are flavor of the month, yeah that's wack lol
Oh 100% I think if it’s innocent then people can want to play something because a game is socially relevant. Kinda like going bowling with your friends just to socialize
It only BECOMES a problem when people aren’t self aware about it or get sucked into negativity because of their need to feel a part of something
I tend to stay away from fandoms and communities since I feel like if you enjoy the game, you should not let a community ruin it for you. Xenoblade is a big one for me, I love Xeno and in recent years that community on Twitter has been a huge problem with people getting a little too much at times. So much so that I’ve ignored it altogether
I was around for the rise of Xenoblade Twitter and now I am BLISSFULLY unaware of what goes on over there. I love just enjoying the series in my own space
Oh yeah and concerning the identity aspect as a black woman, the craziest reactions I had was people thinking I can't possible be really interested games, to thinking I was a white man or just a man in general, and to be fair back in day I let them think that I was a dude becuase other women in the community told me it was safest way to interact (and they were right unfortunately). I get creepy, or just outright racist dms nowadays. It doesnt stop me from gaming or interacting but it does make me far more wary of community in general.
I've SEEN IT with my own two eyes. Black woman get a lot of shit for literally just existing in gaming/nerdy spaces. Whether they want to just be included or even when they just create THEIR OWN SPACES FOR THEMSELVES. It's like they can't win. It's ridiculous.
I do wish you touched more on communities becoming toxic! It can be exhausting when community members see the scene as monolithic and turn to berating anyone who does not share an opinion with them. My experience with ********** felt like being ina group full of nerds that only knew how to bully people with different opinions than them because that’s how they’d always been treated. I still enjoy fighting games but I have taken a break from competitive scene in general.
I do think they rely heavily on community engagement if you want to engage with the competitive aspect of the game. Thanks to most games having rollback even old games can be played without using discord to find matches so the games can definitely still be enjoyed without engaging with competition, and I think especially with fighting games it’s important to ask your self why you want to engage with serious competition in the first place.
Yeah. The topic is definitely multi-layered and I hate that you had to go through that. A lot of nerds feel like these spaces are their opportunity to be the bullies that they couldn’t be in high school
Real Talk the Hoyoverse, Sonic and even Nintendo & Sony is where I personally encountered that mentality. When it comes to Sonic and Hoyoverse you state a complaint about a game or how they do things you’re treated like the enemy especially the fans of Hoyoverse. (I just don’t like that those games are F2P and how it’s set up. Like it feels like an honest console game that you stripped off things purposely to make a F2P game which ruins or halts the game making them borderline tedious which SUCKS because I do see good games in them) for Nintendo and Sony’s case if you speak anything that isn’t the obvious go to titles you’re seen as the weirdo in the group. That said I still enjoy Nintendo, Sony and Sonic games I’m just not paying much attention to the community or very cautious of WHO I speak to about them. 😅
Oh I’ve DEFINITELY heard things about the Sonic community in particular. They are notorious.
I’m most familiar with the Nintendo community and yeah. If you don’t have a certain taste in particular types of Nintendo games, you don’t really fit in. Luckily I never really cared about fitting in with that community even though I consider myself a Nintendo fan 😂
It mostly goes like this: Community doesn't matter if you just want to play a game, but it DOES matter if you want to discuss it and interact. Some gaming communities are outright unbearable and, more often than not, ruin any enjoyment you might have with a game.
Learned that from experience. No matter the reasons, some communities are not worth joining in.
One way that I determine/deal with this is via something a close friend told me:
If you love the craft (in this case the "craft" would be the game) more than you dislike the people/community, then stick with it.
When your dislike for the community eclipses the love that you have for the game, its probably time to disconnect altogether.
In my personal opinion if you like a game you should not let a community ruin it for you keep playing it if you really enjoy it especially if you're new to the community
For me, community only affects me on multiplayer games where I am forced to interact with other people tbh. Idc about single player games. If I like a game enough, I will still play it.
But, for multiplayer games, it's a bit harder if everyone is rude.
I agree with the video! Great watch!
Sf6 is pretty popular but at my locals it’s less than 10 people a week
I show up when I can
I will say community can made the difference for you to show up often but you have to want to play and compete at the game at the end of the day to show up at all
Really? Slight tangent but thats actually pretty surprising depending on your city. Would be curious about what fighting game is more popular in your region. Sounds like SF6’s activity has cooled down a bit.
For me it depends on either singleplayer or multi. For singleplayer i avoid them like the plague (ex: i no longer join smt servers because i find most of the figure heads in the community to be massive pricks) but it doesn't deter my enjoyment of the series as a whole. For multiplayer it different and i think there is when the community can theoretically ruin a game, this especially applies to less popular fgs where the online is a complete ghost town, so your only option is discords. What I'm sayin damn i do not feel like joining the bbcf server to play some matches 💀
I HATE having to go to Discord for matches lol. If I really really love the game I’ll just force myself to do it anyway but man it’s so tedious when I just want to turn on the game and play lol
good video! cool to hear about this in the context of the fgc because of how little i know about it
This is a bit long - your video did prompt some thoughts! I feel like this video only addresses a few types of "I don't want to play a game because of its community" folks. A lot of the time, I don't see people saying it out of a desire for social media points or something, but for another reason: Collocating the two.
I truly don't think it's some obsession, but the games they're looking at triggering certain community-based memories, which then promotes avoidance. I don't think there's much wrong with this: Sometimes you'll just see a lot of bad things (see: 2021-2022 Smash) and then get switched off. I mean, there's plenty of people who avoid Sonic - and especially Sonic Forces - because of years of fandom stigma. It takes more mental stack to play a game while shutting out community matters; as social individuals, we will think of people when we play games. I don't think it takes an obsessive personality to land yourself in this. For a positive example, when I play Animal Crossing, I'll often think of my childhood friend who introduced me to the series. Isn't that nice? Or is it also obsession? I don't think so.
In the most extreme of cases - and this is by no means a full equivalence, there's a lot to it as a sufferer myself - this is why PTSD happens. You have a profoundly horrible, traumatic experience, which your brain will think could genuinely kill you, and then you relive the experience in your head over and over again, to the point of associating similar things with said trauma, triggering the results of the relived experience.
I think there's good and bad uses of the "I don't want to play a game because of its community" thing. It can be as simple as "I want to be part of a conversation and this conversation doesn't serve me", "I want the game to be socially viable", etc, which are all consistent with "poser" personalities, but it can also be "I tend to think of bad aspects of the community when I play this, and shutting that out of my mind adds to the mental stack".
With the FGC example, I think this actually becomes a lot more pertinent, since fighting games are inherently 2-player experiences. It is malleable - for example, I usually only play MultiVersus with close friends without interacting widely - but the larger community does end up being part of the point if you want to get better; for example, if you want better opponents or to learn more. It's difficult to just be a hermit, the "don't let the community define you" thing really only goes so far. I did it back in my vsav days and can definitely say it stunted my improvement for a long time. We often talk about LAN tournaments being where the best players are, describing the opponent's reactions to certain things and the mental stack as people crowd around your setup - wouldn't this end up contradicting the "community doesn't matter" narrative if we wanted people to play? People often turn around and smack WiFi warriors over inherent input delay.
It’s always pretty annoying when *that one* youtube video or meme comes up and gives a game way more attention than it was ready for… When communities get overinflated and misrepresented with annoying people looking for attention is rough. Metal Gear Rising, JoJo, the weirdos on reddit who do nothing but complain about Helldivers 2. You sort of have to erase your ties with it for a while and wait for it all to die down before you can start safely engaging with it again.
AGREED. And on that same note too. It's funny how much more silly all of it looks once you erase those ties and observe everything as an outsider lol.
The movie connection was funny because I remember watching Hop in cinemas and it made me wanna be a drummer lol
LOL yeah. The false sense of inspiration is funny.
Though I do wanna add. Sometimes people do become truly inspired and become a drummer, basketball player or whatever 😂
for me personally a bad community just makes it hard for me to talk about a game
some examples i have are hollow knight and ultrakill, both these games are very spectacular and are very enjoyable, but between the very condescending minority of ultrakill community and then (personally) cringe hollow knight fandom, it just makes talking about the games to strangers just not worth it
its like a weird version of awkwardness
I often wonder if it's a generational gap to this discussion because there's definitely more of an expectation amongst younger folks that by consuming a particular piece of media you're a part of it's fandom, and all it entails.
The concept of just liking something without being part of a community can definitely seem a lot more foreign when you grew up with social media as long you can remember and your peers have strong, active opinions on the Undertale and/or Sonic fandoms, for example.
Hmmmmmm!!! I can definitely see where you’re coming from here.
It does seem like social media and general art consumption are more “linked” when it comes to younger generations. I’d even say something as simple as younger people growing up with the “share” button on consoles + streaming has had an impact on how that generation understands gaming. Less of an activity for personal fulfillment and more of an activity to connect with people around you. Interesting response.
I don’t think I’m in the matrix enough enough to base my enjoyment around an online community. Otherwise I wouldn’t play Sonic or KH since they’re always negative about something.
Plus I grew up not knowing any opinions about a game and I grew up playing games way later than release so I can avoid FOMO as well
I even ignore this stuff with fighters idk it’s very alien to me
And that jocks story was crazy
Yeah I can speak for myself and say in my adulthood I definitely started slipping into the “matrix” in my 20s
Lately though I’ve found a better balance between community engagement and just minding my business. But its mainly because life happened and I’m too BUSY to even keep up with all the outside noise nowadays 😂
Lol idk if it’s funny or kinda sad that I have a similar experience with trying to approach a group of white dudes playing their portable games (3DS Monster Hunter during high school lunch in my case). Although they didn’t come right out and ask shouldn’t I be with the jocks lmao that’s wild.
As far as the video topic goes: I am active in zero communities these days and it’s glorious. I understand some communities can leave a poor impression, and they can be somewhat important for games with an active online component; but for single player games? Why does how the fan base carries on matter for those?
It has no bearing on the quality of a title or franchise so there’s no point wasting energy over the subreddit being obsessed with a dumb meme or smth or parroting the same opinion everywhere.
Most I’ll do is dip in for general opinions and then I’m out haha.
Nerds can be aggressively anti-social when they see “outsiders”, it’s really weird
And yeah I find myself being more alone these days when it comes to the games I play and less in touch with the communities at large. I’m definitely aware of what goes on but I have less energy to be deep into it all like I used to. It gets old after a while.
As an unabashed introvert, I really don't care about how a community behaves since I'm gonna ignore them anyway.
That said, I do think devs should be careful what kind of community they build around their games because in addition to being toxic to newcomers, it might also influence a dev's decision making through their loud demands and as we all know, people rarely know what they actually want and thus the game design might get more narrow minded, sterile and worse.
Ok this is a VERY interesting angle that I didn’t think about. Devs can foster a toxic community and THAT can indirectly create a negative feedback loop. That is something to think about actually that I didn’t consider
Great point! A good example of what you were talking about: The Tekken dev team has done a pretty good job of building and catering to their vocal audience (tekken players complain A LOT)
Harada (the director of tekken) will earnestly write out short essays on twitter about the development/balancing of the series while also pointing towards his 'dont ask me for shit' slogan as a joke.
He makes it clear that they're willing to be transparent and listen to constructive community feedback while also calling out anyone who's just complaining. This approach has kept the community pretty level headed on Twitter
How much? None.
If one lets a community or even a fandom ruin their enjoyment of something, they _probably_ didn't like that thing to begin with.
Undertale and Souls games are prime examples. Never conversed with the community since I found them annoying and I enjoyed the game perfectly
Its crazy how simple it is with single player games but certain online types make it seem like this is hard
Honestly some of it depends on game, multiplayer games absolutely are such that the community matters.
But like single player games? I understand a community turning someone off from a game before getting into it by making it sound unappealing, but you really lose the ability to earnestly talk about a game itself by not playing it and spouting others opinions/how others made you feel about it if we're real, and getting into a game *for* that community instead of for your enjoyment first and foremost sounds just weird. And maybe its just me who enjoys media people often have bad faith surface-level discourse about and barely even try (stuff like VNs) but community for single player games is not really something I feel that necessary to the experience.
And people obsessing over player counts is so weird to me. I've been playing TF2 for over 15 years off and on, people have been shouting "dead game" for ages, and like I really don't care because as long as I can get into a lobby (that isn't infested by bots, thankfully that's being dealt with these days) and play a game I'm having fun with it. Maybe it's a bit privileged since TF2 still sees 5 digit playerbase size, but who gives a damn how many people are playing a game if you can still regularly find a lobby with new players?
But the people who truly weird me out are the ones who say that they let a community change their opinion about a game they already liked purely off being toxic.
Also as an aside, Discord kinda sucks for fan communities lol and I say this as someone who runs several there
The people who say it for single-player games are definitely strange to me. I’ve heard people say it in those situations enough times to wonder what the thought process is behind that. Maybe a sense of shame for liking something that people you don’t like enjoy? Idk its weird.
Commity is essentially irrelevant to my enjoyment of a game. I know what I like and a game's placement in "THE CONVERSATION" doesn't change that at all. The discussion of games via podcasts, TH-cam videos, Twitter, etc., can be enjoyable as well, but it's a separate activity.
I 100% agree. I ALMOST wanna go a step further and say it barely matters for multiplayer for me too these days, even with my negative experiences.
There are multiplayer games where I don’t really care for the vibe of the community but I can pretty much still play against people online as if they were non-human bots pretty much lol
@@jiikae Lol. I was thinking that multiplayer may be the place it matters most, but you're right. If you can play off mic, the interaction doesn't matter. Squad based games are probably the ones where you can't really disengage like that since communication is more integral.
Short answer from another oldhead FGC enjoyer, yes, community matters. A games community can be the difference from you just playing the game and you attending IRL events with the opportunity to meet people in person.
Why I quit league. Community is terrible
it’s something i’ve witnessed to an IMO weird degree - like skipping or not talking about primarily single-player games (undertale, dark souls) or even TV SHOWS (breaking bad) because you perceive the fanbase as annoying. i’m reading into it too much but from conversations i’ve had with people in that position, it almost comes across like they had no interest in the first place and are simply coming up with a “rational” sounding reason. your impression of the thing is entirely surface-level and you don’t wanna research it more, but you feel it’s too popular not for you to comment on.
also i couldn’t help but remember the legendary jiikae tweet where you quoted one of those anniversary posts for pokemon x/y with a single word: “yuck.”
LMAO I forgot about that tweet. I really ended up hating that game 😭
simple answer is no. I don't dictate my life around other people. if I want to play the game I'm going to play it. saved myself 8 minutes.
Dead by daylight in a nutshell
Nice thumbnail
Thank you!!!
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