The worst part of MT Davis is being a former raider season ticket holder for 30 years, and seeing that monstrosity being tarped off almost all its life. What a waste of money.
Should've been a niner fan instead, mount davis and raiders ruined the A's chances of getting a new stadium back then cus Al dangled the carrot to Oakland....Fuck the raiders
Lack of attendance .mlb commish other teams are watching too.want too play in park .where fans come too .we are gone too Las Vegas .time too move on folks
@@davidammons1700 Lack of product on the field causes lack of attendance, Dump Fisher and put good product on the field, and don't give it away, and you will get good attendance.
Never been to Oakland, but here in New York it was the same with Shea Stadium. It was opened in 1964, and besides painting the outfield wall from green to blue, they never did any real updates on the place from the time it opened and just let it turn into a toilet. It doesn't take long. By the late 70s, Shea had already turned into a dump, and then they played there for 30 more years. You have to do constant work to keep structures like that from quickly deteriorating.
I never visited Shea but what is sad is went from a state-of-the-art venue for the 1964 New York World's Fair into a dump. Even during the 1968 AFL Championship Game, the field looked awful. In the mid-1970s remember there were four tenants as the Yankees and Giants were waiting for their new or renovated venues and that took a toll on the upkeep.
@@chrisbacos First Met game I ever went to was in 1968, when I was 6 years old, and even then it never looked like a new stadium to me. And it was only 4 years old. One famous incident at Shea was they had a pre-game ceremony where I guess they were honoring the Army or veterans, and they set off a cannon and it blew down a section of the outfield wall. I actually saw this live on TV, but it became kind of a joke video replayed over the years as symbolic of the Mets. The wall was just made of big sheets of plywood, painted green in those days, so they stuck the blown down section up for that game without really repairing it. You could tell it was just kind of hanging there. No big deal for one game, but they just left it like that, it seemed like for years, just hanging there, LOL. You could tell which section it was because it wasn't even put back right, like part of it was sticking out. That was some time in the late 70's. But, heck, I still loved going to Shea. I wasn't even a Mets fan, but it was easy to get to from where I lived and cheap (in those days, $1.50 general admission). Went to a lot of games, and I miss the place. Went to a few Jets games too, and for football it was just windy and dusty, unless it was raining, then it was windy and muddy. The new stadium is more like an amusement park than a baseball stadium.
@@RRaquello Interesting. Thanks for the story. I have had many friends from NYC and I heard only bad stories about Shea. As for the cheap prices, I grew up in Los Angeles and in the 1970s you could go to a game for as low as 50 cents and the most expensive seats were $3.50 at Dodger Stadium. Today it seems like a week's salary to cover all expenses at an MLB game. Nice chatting w/you. TTYL
@@chrisbacos I have no bad stories about Shea, except that it was a dump. I always had fun when I went, though, and always looked forward to going back. When I go to a game, I'm going for the game itself, so I'm not worried about the fancy frills and amenities, so the grubbiness of Shea Stadium never bothered me.
@@RRaquello In the 1977 Sports Illustrated NFL Football preview issue a poll was taken among players and the majority of them said they hated Shea Stadium and the old Baltimore Memorial Stadium the most.
I basically agree with all this. But I'd put it a little differently. What Mt. Davis did, among other things, was make updating the Coliseum for baseball impossible. Dodgers Stadium, Anaheim, and Kauffman are all fine places to watch a game since they've been updated. I agree that catch up is impossible now. But Mt. Davis arrived at precisely the moment that the Coliseum could have been updated and made it impossible to update. So, no, the presence of Mt. Davis is not all that's wrong with the Coliseum. But it played a larger role in what's wrong with the Coliseum that last sentence suggests.
Nope, Brodie... Semantics here… Mt Davis represents money as well as ruined vista and the “fan experience.” It kept new and vital baseball improvements from happening… it was the reason there was no more public funding to be AND took away from city and county services. Mt Davis is and was a disaster. #1 reason it is.
I hope the A's can buy the stadium and make the following changes. 1. Remove MT davis. Replace with single deck and concourse with shade like Dodger stadium 2. Add Shade to the upper deck 3. Move homeplate back to reduce the amount of foul ball space. 4. Gut and modernize the lockers. This stadium has good bones, concrete decks etc. The above changes would bring it back to its former glory while retaining A's history.
I think I remember hearing that Schott and Hoffman in the early '90's wanted to add more seating in foul territory to make it more baseball friendly similar to Shea and Old Busch, both circular stadiums. However the city denied them because they wanted to make the renovations to the arena and lure the Raiders back from LA.
You hit the nail on the head on this. What it boils now to is if you put money into something and keeping it modern and up to date with amenities. The actual stadium can be open for damn near ever. I damn near ever. I mean as long as the foundation lets it stand. Wrigley Field and Fenway Park are two great examples of this. They keep it up to date. Are the Cubs had an issue with Wrigley Field but they were eventually able to get it up to date. They never gave a damn about the Colosseum and now here we are
Disregarding the updates, i think one of the big aesthetic differences that Kauffman, Angel and Dodger stadiums have done is paint or graphics on the concrete columns and facade. It's a little thing but it dramatically changes the look. Hides the bleak old concrete look by adding some color. In the first deck of the coliseum there are parts that have been painted white, and even those sections look better. Wish they would do more of it
Time to admit that Fenway, Wrigley and Dodger Stadium are outliers. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and build a new stadium. The Coliseum opened in 1966. You know what stadium opened the year before? Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. The Braves have now played in two new stadiums since playing there. The Coliseum's time has come and gone. It has more than served its purpose.
I wouldn't call them outliers. I would look at them as prime examples of what happens when you actually take care of your shit. They take damn good care of those. Stadiums And when you don't really care, it starts to show
Nah...my property taxes went up to pay Davis to bring the Raiders back to Oakland and WTF did I get out of the deal? Not a damn thing! The Raiders lost me when they first moved to L.A. Scumbag Al Davis...greedy bastard. Rot in hell! And they left again anyway. Somehow the taxpayers would have gotten screwed again in any new stadium deal. It's no different than some oil company coming in and telling a neighborhood that they will build a gas station on on empty lot in their neighborhood but the neighborhood has to pony up the cash for them to build it. Then they still charge you for gas! What these sport franchises do is NO different.
It's actually a California thing. With the exception of the Rams move to St Louis, no city in California feared their teams would leave. The Clippers moved to LA but were ran just as poorly managed there. Other franchises in cities around the country threatened to move and got their improvements or new venues. If it wasn't for private money, all franchises of all sports in California would be playing in dilapidated stadiums and arenas.
Decades of consistently bad decisions and actions about the stadium and neighborhood. Sad, because those 70s A’s still, in so many ways, define the character of this franchise. What better way to pay homage than through preserving that stadium. The 70s were one of the most fascinating times in baseball history (hair, uniforms, teams, players, owners, stadiums, free agency, etc.) and there is about to be nothing left to show for it. The early 20th century isn’t the only thing worth preserving.
I think the Haas family did some sensible things in the 1980s after the Raiders moved out for the first time. With no football being played, the Coliseum became a better venue for baseball. I started following the team in the 1970s and started going to games as a kid with my family in 1974. But my fondest Coliseum memories are games when I was sitting in the bleachers in the late 1980s.
The Cardinals Should have kept Old Busch. Of all the cookie-cutter multi use stadiums built in the 60s and 70s Busch had the most soul and character by far. It would have been a draw in and of itself to see 60s-90s era baseball there, much like the draw of Fenway and Wrigley is seeing early 20th century era baseball. Instead the Cards are stuck with just another boring park, built to make money, not produce atmosphere.
Even if Mount Davis was never built they would still be clamoring for a new venue, old configuration of the coliseum was more aesthetic but still 56 years old.
Agreed by the time you get to the 2020s. But there were thirty years in which the A's could have been playing in an improved Coliseum, but instead played in a worse one. And new stadium talk would likely have taken a decade or so longer to get going.
Mount Davis cost $500 million to build. Had they told the Raiders to pack sand and spent even $250 million to renovate the Coliseum for the A's, I think the situation today would be remarkably different. Incremental renovations to the Coliseum and an ownership group actually committed to winning, I think people would view the Coliseum very similar to Dodger Stadium.
Not just Mt Davis ruined the coliseum, but the neighborhood around it is dangerous. Oakland never spruced it up. It would've been nice to go to a nearby bar or restaurant after the game and not feel like your life was in danger.
Could the removal of MT Davis change the attendance? It would at least attract attention for the A’s again and give it a more ballpark feel. I’m sure it’s becoming too little too late but with these attendance numbers anything is worth trying
When the Raiders were there and the stadium was shared with the A’s, which teams paid for the groundskeepers to keep the stadium up to date for the respective tenants? I’m guessing both teams said that the other team should pay for the stadium to be in satisfactory condition for their respective games?
This is one of the biggest flaws to the Coliseum. I can even say that another major flaw with the Coli is location. Yes you can take bart and tailgate, but the area around is somewhere nobody wants to hang out around at. I've walked past Petco Park and Chase Field, and of course Oracle. They're in a location where it's great to explore before a game or somewhere to go after a game, something that add a bit of pop for visiting fans. I will admit the connivence for local fans but one thing for sure is, its not too visiter friendly if you think about it.
I watched this video again. The biggest problem with the Coliseum is the total lack of interest in having Oakland want champion professional sports representing the city. I am a 4th generation East Bay native. Born in Oakland, graduate of Fremont High. Dedicated A's and Oaks fan. Former Raiders fan. But look at it seriously. Oakland doesn't want the A's. When the A's, Raiders and Warriors were winning championships, Oakland was on the map. It was looked up to. It was a nice city. It had a reputation. The Warriors moved back over to SF from where they came, the Raiders moved to Las Vegas where the city actually wanted them and the reputation a professional sports franchise will bring. Now the A's will move, probably to Las Vegas and bless them. And what about Oakland? Instead of being a city we all can be proud of, it will deteriorate into a dump. Will I be able to say that I am from Oakland with pride? Will others think that being from Oakland will cast me as being from the peasant class? Of course, the A's have done their part. They keep the lowest salary in baseball, trade away all their good players just as they are entering free agency. I used to be able to see who the A's would trade by looking at Cot's Contracts. They the A's do everything on the cheap and pocket their share of the equity fees that MLB collects from the teams that pick up all the A's talent. I went to a couple of A's spring training games this year and didn't recognize anyone. Even Bob Melvin left because he could see the deterioration of the organization. Who is Dave Kaval. From interviews, he sure doesn't look like someone who has an interest in developing a championship team. As for me, I moved out of California a few years ago. I'm now a citizen of another state and damn happy I made the move. Good luck Oakland, you're going to need it.
Back in 1968 my 8th grade class made a field trip to Sacramento and the Capitol. Inside there was a room with exhibits in miniature of all the counties and something about each county; one for Alameda was of the Arena and Coliseum. At that time, Oakland had poached the A's from Kansas City, was in the process of poaching the hockey Seals from San Francisco and Cow Palace, and had designs to do the same with the Warriors. The Coliseum is out of date, the Raiders have moved again, the A's thinking about it, the Warriors are back in San Francisco with Chase Center. It's like karma!
It's funny that you phrase it that way. I went to Dodger Stadium earlier this year and I've been to 30 games in Oakland this year. I've actually said that if they painted the Coliseum like they paint Dodger Stadium it would be an astronomically different visual inside and out.
I agree with Brodie 100%. I remember the construction workers dancing inbetween innings. I think everyone enjoyed this. But 50 years of deferred maintenance is the one thing that destroyed the colisseum
The coliseum was only designed for football while the Raiders were part of the AFL before the merger with the NFL. It was not designed for baseball in the first place. We can probably blame poor ownership from both sports for not putting much money into maintaining the structure, instead having the taxpayers foot the bill.
The city owns the stadium, they are the landlords. Why should the tenants improve the stadium. It’s like you are renting a home and you decide to put an extension out of your own pocket.
@@IkilledColMustard a) because that is how commercial real-estate works, you at best rent an empty box, and you renovate it to your needs. b) they pay 1.2 million dollars a year rent the foot print of just the stadium so not the multiple decks is 550,000 sqft, so they pay $2.18 per sqft per year. The average cost of light industrial space in Oakland(some of the cheapest per sqft) is $26.35 per sqft per month. If they where to bulldoze just the park and replace it with an industrial building that would get 173.9Mill a year a 14,492.5% increase....yeah I think it should be on the As to upgrade the field at least in part.
If you can build that tower of doom called Mt. Davis, you can remodel the coliseum and modernize it. Is it expensive? Sure what isn't expensive in the bay area??? But I can guarantee whatever the projected costs of a new ballpark are near JLS, it will wind up costing more. They A's like the city Oakland itself live in the shadow of SF. Giant's ballpark is on the water, our ballpark has to be on the water. Silly but it's true. 5-6 years after it opens it will be sold out. First time the A's have a rebuild, attendance will drop. If crime in Oakland isn't addressed attendance will drop. The shiny new object attention span is always short lived. I love the A's - whatever they decide I wish them well!
I'm in the minority here, I've mainly gone to football games over the years as I started going when the Raiders came back. However, I only know the coliseum with Mt. Davis. Even though I've always been a A's fan, to me the coliseum was always more of a football stadium so I personally never had an issue with Mt. Davis. It made the coliseum look more for football. People have always complained about the view of the Oakland hills being ruined but to me, I don't attend sports events to look at a view, I go to watch the game so I couldn't careless about the view. When I look at the coliseum in the early years & mid 90's the big opening doesn't look good for football, it looked great for baseball though. Just my personal take on Mt. Davis. Always appreciate your work Brodie! Much love & respect!
I’ve been to the Oakland Coliseum only once and that was for an A’s Orioles game in July 1996. The highlight of the night was the Macarena. I was 12 then and had no idea Mt. Davis was brand new.
The Coliseum when it was built was easily the best place to watch baseball of the multi-purpose stadiums. Making it C-shaped as opposed to a completely enclosed concrete donut was actually pretty brilliant, especially considering those views of the Oakland Hills. Mt. Davis may not have single-handedly ruined the stadium, but I’d say it largely contributed to its inevitable demise. What should have happened in ‘95 was that the city/county remodeled the Coliseum the way that they did for the Warriors (Oakland Arena was a well-kept and more than viable arena up to the very day that the Warriors left it), and they should have built an entirely SEPARATE football stadium for the Raiders. In the long run, Oakland would have at least kept the A’s and Raiders and may even had been able to attract an MLS team. But that would’ve been too much to imagine for Oakland city leadership at that time smh.
For the cost of the entire project (which I support btw) at HT, wouldn't it be less expensive to tear down and gut the entire existing Coliseum and start fresh from the ground up? Seems like that would face far far less political scrutiny and associated "games". That said, it's not going to happen - so c'mon Alameda Co. and Oakland officials - PLEASE don't let this opportunity slip out your grasp due to basic incompetence & political theater
ok you missed alot things to would go under the Heading why we are Here from 1982 to 1984 the Oakland Invaders called it home , so no improvements could be made First when Walther Hass purchase the team , in 1982 the suites were add and they did overhaul the concourse , Funny thing was alot of things Al Davis demanded to be done we done Second every time when a discussion of converting the stadium to a modern baseball only stadium came up, everyone in government cried you cant touch it cause the Raiders might comeback Third when Schott and Harrlesen purchased they took tours of Coors Field and wanted to adapt those to the stadium, that got ruined by Mount Davis One item everyone seems to have forgotten or never noticed was the original lease for the Raiders was for 20 years so by the end of the lease their would be a modern facility in place , similar to what New York did or what Cincinnati did with their teams
My daughter and I went to a Royals' game in Kansas City in 2021. The K is a beautiful stadium with the fountains and Royals' Hall of Fame. You wouldn't know it was 50 years old.
Not worth it. Not enough games for a football only stadium. Oakland isn't isolated the same way other locations are so suggesting that it would be used for other events is difficult to justify as well. There's fat too many competing structures in the bay. It would be a financial drain for it's entire life in Oakland and that's the last thing Oakland needs. First thing they need is a balanced budget and a new government top to bottom...
Vaguely remember original coliseum . Nobody thought it was great before mt.davis & to an extent it’s over stated how it ruined the park for baseball. Still, it wasn’t good. Biggest problem is the ownership and fan apathy.
It has always had too much foul territory.aThe hot dogs are bad.you need binoculars anywhere beyond field level. Exit traffic is horrible. A black hole!
Let's put the blame where it belongs. What ruined the Coliseum were Mt. Davis and skinflint owners who did not field successful teams except for brief periods.Believe it or not, a large percentage of fans would rather have good baseball than good food at the ballpark.
Why did Mt. Davis even need to be built the raiders already played at the coliseum until leaving Oakland the first time. It already had a football configuration.
So what is the argument going forward? Do we support HT project, or do we hope someone can come in (which I think there was a rumored proposal recently) and try and re-do the Oakland Coliseum from the ground up? I also agree with BEN ALPERS, Mt Davis ruined the scenery of the Oakland Hills, but also restricted the Coliseum from being renovated for Baseball.
Bad decisions by city officials, horrible maintenance on it cause of it. Combination of timing. Lot bad decisions politicians blame the Raiders and A's front office. Neyland stadium in Knoxville TN is over 100 years old. They took care of place .
Hypothetically, had the Raiders never returned to Oakland in '95, the A's search for a new stadium would have been just as much a reality as it is in the here and now. I loved going to A's and Raider games, but the only thing attractive about the coliseum in pre-'95 baseball configuration WAS the bleachers! Mt. Davis?? Child, please! Love my A's, but it drove me nuts when I heard A's fans whine, "I can't see the Oakland hills anymore." You wanna see hills, go to the hills. Wanna watch baseball, come to the coliseum. It's like experiencing children that grab bright shinny things off the ground and then cry about it when we tell them no. Ugh!
Brodie - as usual, you make great points. The biggest flaw of course is the massive foul territory! The foul territory is mentioned all the time, but it rarely is talked about as something that pushes the fans back, further from the action than any other park in MLB! This problem cannot be fixed. The A's have filled in some seats (Diamond Level etc) but this does not bring the rest of the fans any closer! We need a ballpark designed for baseball only, with every aspect designed for baseball. Howard Terminal is that ballpark!
There is a greater difference between the 29th best baseball stadium and the 30th best baseball stadium (yes, the Oakland Coliseum) than there is between the best baseball stadium and the 29th best baseball stadium.
I disagree. Those bleacher seats were the best part of the game. We would stomp our feet against the floor of the bleachers and make some crazy noise. Also the $2 ticket was pretty good as well!
No simply put they get the good players while there young use them up and when it’s time to pay they never have enough money to pay them the A’s as an organization related to much on loyalty from the ppl they had within fans included there’s still plenty of A’s fans but with the team having no talent and no big free agent wanting to go there well you just are where u are now
Are there any good seats in this dump? It seems like 75% of the seats are a mile away from the field and like most multipurpose stadiums a lot of the seats are pointing the wrong way for baseball.
Folks the property owner is who you should blame for this deplorable facility,Almeda county runs this stadium on the cheap,that’s not okay, come on man
Jesus is the only way into Heaven. Ask Him into your life, cleanse you from ALL unrighteousness. Make Him your Lord & your Savior. One day YOU will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
People just have no faith in the owners making the moves necessary to win. You need to have a top 10 payroll, period. The only people who care about the A's right now are absolute baseball nerds. The Giants had Barry Bonds and 70 home run seasons when they got Pac Bell. You need those bandwagon fans to sell out consistently.
That’s not really true, the A’s have had one of the lowest payrolls, but some of the highest win totals in the MLB, the coliseum has lots of nostalgia, but for most, they want a new updated stadium, games also always look empty because of how big the coliseum is, but even a few years ago when the A’s were in the wild card picture, the first and second deck were pretty full
the best thing that can happen to the Coliseum is when they clear it out and blow it up. That place needs to be demolished, not torn down just blow it up once the A's are done there.
![Dodger Stadium Construction Update [End of 2024]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BUSXXHKGAP0/mqdefault.jpg)
The worst part of MT Davis is being a former raider season ticket holder for 30 years, and seeing that monstrosity being tarped off almost all its life. What a waste of money.
Should've been a niner fan instead, mount davis and raiders ruined the A's chances of getting a new stadium back then cus Al dangled the carrot to Oakland....Fuck the raiders
Whoever greenlit the funds for that should be jailed for life!
@@nicholasmallard2926 It wasn't worth it to get back a rip off artist like Al Davis.
@@nicholasmallard2926 - That person is probably retired with a huge pension and benefits for life at taxpayer expense
@@radioroger1683 It’s California, that goes without saying!
MLB the show should have a old Oakland stadium pre 1995 that would be so cool
Lack of attendance .mlb commish other teams are watching too.want too play in park .where fans come too .we are gone too Las Vegas .time too move on folks
@@davidammons1700 you have no idea what your talking about. If the A's move to Vegas Fisher will have an excuses to jack the fan.
They also need old tiger stadium
@@davidammons1700 Lack of product on the field causes lack of attendance, Dump Fisher and put good product on the field, and don't give it away, and you will get good attendance.
Never been to Oakland, but here in New York it was the same with Shea Stadium. It was opened in 1964, and besides painting the outfield wall from green to blue, they never did any real updates on the place from the time it opened and just let it turn into a toilet. It doesn't take long. By the late 70s, Shea had already turned into a dump, and then they played there for 30 more years. You have to do constant work to keep structures like that from quickly deteriorating.
I never visited Shea but what is sad is went from a state-of-the-art venue for the 1964 New York World's Fair into a dump. Even during the 1968 AFL Championship Game, the field looked awful. In the mid-1970s remember there were four tenants as the Yankees and Giants were waiting for their new or renovated venues and that took a toll on the upkeep.
@@chrisbacos First Met game I ever went to was in 1968, when I was 6 years old, and even then it never looked like a new stadium to me. And it was only 4 years old. One famous incident at Shea was they had a pre-game ceremony where I guess they were honoring the Army or veterans, and they set off a cannon and it blew down a section of the outfield wall. I actually saw this live on TV, but it became kind of a joke video replayed over the years as symbolic of the Mets. The wall was just made of big sheets of plywood, painted green in those days, so they stuck the blown down section up for that game without really repairing it. You could tell it was just kind of hanging there. No big deal for one game, but they just left it like that, it seemed like for years, just hanging there, LOL. You could tell which section it was because it wasn't even put back right, like part of it was sticking out. That was some time in the late 70's.
But, heck, I still loved going to Shea. I wasn't even a Mets fan, but it was easy to get to from where I lived and cheap (in those days, $1.50 general admission). Went to a lot of games, and I miss the place. Went to a few Jets games too, and for football it was just windy and dusty, unless it was raining, then it was windy and muddy. The new stadium is more like an amusement park than a baseball stadium.
@@RRaquello Interesting. Thanks for the story. I have had many friends from NYC and I heard only bad stories about Shea. As for the cheap prices, I grew up in Los Angeles and in the 1970s you could go to a game for as low as 50 cents and the most expensive seats were $3.50 at Dodger Stadium. Today it seems like a week's salary to cover all expenses at an MLB game. Nice chatting w/you. TTYL
@@chrisbacos I have no bad stories about Shea, except that it was a dump. I always had fun when I went, though, and always looked forward to going back. When I go to a game, I'm going for the game itself, so I'm not worried about the fancy frills and amenities, so the grubbiness of Shea Stadium never bothered me.
@@RRaquello In the 1977 Sports Illustrated NFL Football preview issue a poll was taken among players and the majority of them said they hated Shea Stadium and the old Baltimore Memorial Stadium the most.
I basically agree with all this. But I'd put it a little differently. What Mt. Davis did, among other things, was make updating the Coliseum for baseball impossible. Dodgers Stadium, Anaheim, and Kauffman are all fine places to watch a game since they've been updated. I agree that catch up is impossible now. But Mt. Davis arrived at precisely the moment that the Coliseum could have been updated and made it impossible to update. So, no, the presence of Mt. Davis is not all that's wrong with the Coliseum. But it played a larger role in what's wrong with the Coliseum that last sentence suggests.
Nope, Brodie... Semantics here… Mt Davis represents money as well as ruined vista and the “fan experience.” It kept new and vital baseball improvements from happening… it was the reason there was no more public funding to be AND took away from city and county services. Mt Davis is and was a disaster. #1 reason it is.
I hope the A's can buy the stadium and make the following changes.
1. Remove MT davis. Replace with single deck and concourse with shade like Dodger stadium
2. Add Shade to the upper deck
3. Move homeplate back to reduce the amount of foul ball space.
4. Gut and modernize the lockers.
This stadium has good bones, concrete decks etc. The above changes would bring it back to its former glory while retaining A's history.
All that won't fix the ghetto hell-hole that Oakland has become. No one wants to risk their lives or those of their families going there.
they'd also have to raise the structure to above sea level to help with draining the plumbing properly
I think I remember hearing that Schott and Hoffman in the early '90's wanted to add more seating in foul territory to make it more baseball friendly similar to Shea and Old Busch, both circular stadiums. However the city denied them because they wanted to make the renovations to the arena and lure the Raiders back from LA.
You hit the nail on the head on this. What it boils now to is if you put money into something and keeping it modern and up to date with amenities. The actual stadium can be open for damn near ever. I damn near ever. I mean as long as the foundation lets it stand. Wrigley Field and Fenway Park are two great examples of this. They keep it up to date. Are the Cubs had an issue with Wrigley Field but they were eventually able to get it up to date. They never gave a damn about the Colosseum and now here we are
Disregarding the updates, i think one of the big aesthetic differences that Kauffman, Angel and Dodger stadiums have done is paint or graphics on the concrete columns and facade. It's a little thing but it dramatically changes the look. Hides the bleak old concrete look by adding some color. In the first deck of the coliseum there are parts that have been painted white, and even those sections look better. Wish they would do more of it
I think it is worth saving. Fantastic location with all that parking. Mt Davis has to go also and open up that beautiful view again.
I agree I went there last year and the walk to the seats was depressing
Owner ship is terrible. Mr. Haas was the best owner of the A’s . We had a lot of fun back then ❤️
Sounds like the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum Authority should be blamed for this.
Tropicana Field (1990) and Guaranteed Rate Field (1991) are also older than Oriole Park at Camden Yards (1992).
Time to admit that Fenway, Wrigley and Dodger Stadium are outliers. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and build a new stadium. The Coliseum opened in 1966. You know what stadium opened the year before? Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. The Braves have now played in two new stadiums since playing there. The Coliseum's time has come and gone. It has more than served its purpose.
I wouldn't call them outliers. I would look at them as prime examples of what happens when you actually take care of your shit. They take damn good care of those. Stadiums And when you don't really care, it starts to show
Nah...my property taxes went up to pay Davis to bring the Raiders back to Oakland and WTF did I get out of the deal? Not a damn thing! The Raiders lost me when they first moved to L.A. Scumbag Al Davis...greedy bastard. Rot in hell! And they left again anyway. Somehow the taxpayers would have gotten screwed again in any new stadium deal. It's no different than some oil company coming in and telling a neighborhood that they will build a gas station on on empty lot in their neighborhood but the neighborhood has to pony up the cash for them to build it. Then they still charge you for gas! What these sport franchises do is NO different.
It's actually a California thing. With the exception of the Rams move to St Louis, no city in California feared their teams would leave. The Clippers moved to LA but were ran just as poorly managed there. Other franchises in cities around the country threatened to move and got their improvements or new venues. If it wasn't for private money, all franchises of all sports in California would be playing in dilapidated stadiums and arenas.
Decades of consistently bad decisions and actions about the stadium and neighborhood. Sad, because those 70s A’s still, in so many ways, define the character of this franchise. What better way to pay homage than through preserving that stadium. The 70s were one of the most fascinating times in baseball history (hair, uniforms, teams, players, owners, stadiums, free agency, etc.) and there is about to be nothing left to show for it. The early 20th century isn’t the only thing worth preserving.
I think the Haas family did some sensible things in the 1980s after the Raiders moved out for the first time. With no football being played, the Coliseum became a better venue for baseball. I started following the team in the 1970s and started going to games as a kid with my family in 1974. But my fondest Coliseum memories are games when I was sitting in the bleachers in the late 1980s.
The Cardinals Should have kept Old Busch. Of all the cookie-cutter multi use stadiums built in the 60s and 70s Busch had the most soul and character by far. It would have been a draw in and of itself to see 60s-90s era baseball there, much like the draw of Fenway and Wrigley is seeing early 20th century era baseball. Instead the Cards are stuck with just another boring park, built to make money, not produce atmosphere.
Speaking of the 70s, Lynyrd Skynyrd played an iconic set at the Coliseum in ‘77.
Even if Mount Davis was never built they would still be clamoring for a new venue, old configuration of the coliseum was more aesthetic but still 56 years old.
Agreed by the time you get to the 2020s. But there were thirty years in which the A's could have been playing in an improved Coliseum, but instead played in a worse one. And new stadium talk would likely have taken a decade or so longer to get going.
Mount Davis cost $500 million to build. Had they told the Raiders to pack sand and spent even $250 million to renovate the Coliseum for the A's, I think the situation today would be remarkably different. Incremental renovations to the Coliseum and an ownership group actually committed to winning, I think people would view the Coliseum very similar to Dodger Stadium.
Not just Mt Davis ruined the coliseum, but the neighborhood around it is dangerous. Oakland never spruced it up. It would've been nice to go to a nearby bar or restaurant after the game and not feel like your life was in danger.
Could the removal of MT Davis change the attendance? It would at least attract attention for the A’s again and give it a more ballpark feel. I’m sure it’s becoming too little too late but with these attendance numbers anything is worth trying
When the Raiders were there and the stadium was shared with the A’s, which teams paid for the groundskeepers to keep the stadium up to date for the respective tenants? I’m guessing both teams said that the other team should pay for the stadium to be in satisfactory condition for their respective games?
This is one of the biggest flaws to the Coliseum. I can even say that another major flaw with the Coli is location. Yes you can take bart and tailgate, but the area around is somewhere nobody wants to hang out around at. I've walked past Petco Park and Chase Field, and of course Oracle. They're in a location where it's great to explore before a game or somewhere to go after a game, something that add a bit of pop for visiting fans. I will admit the connivence for local fans but one thing for sure is, its not too visiter friendly if you think about it.
Or right after a raiders game...u just LEAVE and go home. No mingle or explore
That's true, i remember driving past it (i was an Austrian tourist) and it looked pretty bleak there.
I watched this video again. The biggest problem with the Coliseum is the total lack of interest in having Oakland want champion professional sports representing the city. I am a 4th generation East Bay native. Born in Oakland, graduate of Fremont High. Dedicated A's and Oaks fan. Former Raiders fan. But look at it seriously. Oakland doesn't want the A's. When the A's, Raiders and Warriors were winning championships, Oakland was on the map. It was looked up to. It was a nice city. It had a reputation. The Warriors moved back over to SF from where they came, the Raiders moved to Las Vegas where the city actually wanted them and the reputation a professional sports franchise will bring. Now the A's will move, probably to Las Vegas and bless them. And what about Oakland? Instead of being a city we all can be proud of, it will deteriorate into a dump. Will I be able to say that I am from Oakland with pride? Will others think that being from Oakland will cast me as being from the peasant class? Of course, the A's have done their part. They keep the lowest salary in baseball, trade away all their good players just as they are entering free agency. I used to be able to see who the A's would trade by looking at Cot's Contracts. They the A's do everything on the cheap and pocket their share of the equity fees that MLB collects from the teams that pick up all the A's talent. I went to a couple of A's spring training games this year and didn't recognize anyone. Even Bob Melvin left because he could see the deterioration of the organization. Who is Dave Kaval. From interviews, he sure doesn't look like someone who has an interest in developing a championship team. As for me, I moved out of California a few years ago. I'm now a citizen of another state and damn happy I made the move. Good luck Oakland, you're going to need it.
Back in 1968 my 8th grade class made a field trip to Sacramento and the Capitol. Inside there was a room with exhibits in miniature of all the counties and something about each county; one for Alameda was of the Arena and Coliseum. At that time, Oakland had poached the A's from Kansas City, was in the process of poaching the hockey Seals from San Francisco and Cow Palace, and had designs to do the same with the Warriors. The Coliseum is out of date, the Raiders have moved again, the A's thinking about it, the Warriors are back in San Francisco with Chase Center. It's like karma!
There has been more money spent on paint every year at Dodger stadium than there’s ever been spent on Coliseum maintenance
It's funny that you phrase it that way. I went to Dodger Stadium earlier this year and I've been to 30 games in Oakland this year. I've actually said that if they painted the Coliseum like they paint Dodger Stadium it would be an astronomically different visual inside and out.
It was good seeing the old stadium picture. I loved the bleachers back then. Now you miss any deep plays unless you are on the railing.
Good Ole days long gone
Been going there since the 70’s, the magic is gone, it’s a shithole, literally. A’s deserve better!
I agree with Brodie 100%. I remember the construction workers dancing inbetween innings. I think everyone enjoyed this. But 50 years of deferred maintenance is the one thing that destroyed the colisseum
You did make one small error: Guaranteed Rate Field (White Sox) is one year older than Baltimore's Camden Yards.
The coliseum was only designed for football while the Raiders were part of the AFL before the merger with the NFL. It was not designed for baseball in the first place. We can probably blame poor ownership from both sports for not putting much money into maintaining the structure, instead having the taxpayers foot the bill.
The city owns the stadium, they are the landlords. Why should the tenants improve the stadium.
It’s like you are renting a home and you decide to put an extension out of your own pocket.
@@IkilledColMustard a) because that is how commercial real-estate works, you at best rent an empty box, and you renovate it to your needs. b) they pay 1.2 million dollars a year rent the foot print of just the stadium so not the multiple decks is 550,000 sqft, so they pay $2.18 per sqft per year. The average cost of light industrial space in Oakland(some of the cheapest per sqft) is $26.35 per sqft per month. If they where to bulldoze just the park and replace it with an industrial building that would get 173.9Mill a year a 14,492.5% increase....yeah I think it should be on the As to upgrade the field at least in part.
If you can build that tower of doom called Mt. Davis, you can remodel the coliseum and modernize it. Is it expensive? Sure what isn't expensive in the bay area??? But I can guarantee whatever the projected costs of a new ballpark are near JLS, it will wind up costing more.
They A's like the city Oakland itself live in the shadow of SF. Giant's ballpark is on the water, our ballpark has to be on the water. Silly but it's true. 5-6 years after it opens it will be sold out.
First time the A's have a rebuild, attendance will drop. If crime in Oakland isn't addressed
attendance will drop. The shiny new object attention span is always short lived.
I love the A's - whatever they decide I wish them well!
I'm in the minority here, I've mainly gone to football games over the years as I started going when the Raiders came back. However, I only know the coliseum with Mt. Davis. Even though I've always been a A's fan, to me the coliseum was always more of a football stadium so I personally never had an issue with Mt. Davis. It made the coliseum look more for football. People have always complained about the view of the Oakland hills being ruined but to me, I don't attend sports events to look at a view, I go to watch the game so I couldn't careless about the view. When I look at the coliseum in the early years & mid 90's the big opening doesn't look good for football, it looked great for baseball though. Just my personal take on Mt. Davis. Always appreciate your work Brodie! Much love & respect!
The amenities that you can experience when going to an A's game are very unique like avoiding getting shot at or robbed on the way to the game!😁
I’ve been to the Oakland Coliseum only once and that was for an A’s Orioles game in July 1996. The highlight of the night was the Macarena. I was 12 then and had no idea Mt. Davis was brand new.
The Coliseum when it was built was easily the best place to watch baseball of the multi-purpose stadiums. Making it C-shaped as opposed to a completely enclosed concrete donut was actually pretty brilliant, especially considering those views of the Oakland Hills.
Mt. Davis may not have single-handedly ruined the stadium, but I’d say it largely contributed to its inevitable demise. What should have happened in ‘95 was that the city/county remodeled the Coliseum the way that they did for the Warriors (Oakland Arena was a well-kept and more than viable arena up to the very day that the Warriors left it), and they should have built an entirely SEPARATE football stadium for the Raiders. In the long run, Oakland would have at least kept the A’s and Raiders and may even had been able to attract an MLS team. But that would’ve been too much to imagine for Oakland city leadership at that time smh.
For the cost of the entire project (which I support btw) at HT, wouldn't it be less expensive to tear down and gut the entire existing Coliseum and start fresh from the ground up? Seems like that would face far far less political scrutiny and associated "games". That said, it's not going to happen - so c'mon Alameda Co. and Oakland officials - PLEASE don't let this opportunity slip out your grasp due to basic incompetence & political theater
No would cost more. The infrastructure is 20th Century
@@baucedixon8067 oh? Really? Ok. Good info. I stand corrected
Al Davis did all of this just for some damn luxury boxes. Even moving them to LA to another old shitty stadium in a bad part of town as well.
ok you missed alot things to would go under the Heading why we are Here
from 1982 to 1984 the Oakland Invaders called it home , so no improvements could be made
First when Walther Hass purchase the team , in 1982 the suites were add and they did overhaul the concourse , Funny thing was alot of things Al Davis demanded to be done we done
Second every time when a discussion of converting the stadium to a modern baseball only stadium came up, everyone in government cried you cant touch it cause the Raiders might comeback
Third when Schott and Harrlesen purchased they took tours of Coors Field and wanted to adapt those to the stadium, that got ruined by Mount Davis
One item everyone seems to have forgotten or never noticed was the original lease for the Raiders was for 20 years so by the end of the lease their would be a modern facility in place , similar to what New York did or what Cincinnati did with their teams
My daughter and I went to a Royals' game in Kansas City in 2021. The K is a beautiful stadium with the fountains and Royals' Hall of Fame. You wouldn't know it was 50 years old.
They did everything on the cheap . A new stadium should’ve been built for the the Raiders.
Not worth it. Not enough games for a football only stadium. Oakland isn't isolated the same way other locations are so suggesting that it would be used for other events is difficult to justify as well. There's fat too many competing structures in the bay. It would be a financial drain for it's entire life in Oakland and that's the last thing Oakland needs.
First thing they need is a balanced budget and a new government top to bottom...
First time seeing a game at Angels stadium was shocked how immaculate it was compared to the coliseum.
The Braves have had 3 stadiums in the same time frame lol
True about Dodger Stadium, it reminded me of an old retro diner, like a timewarp in the best possible way.
Are baseball fans able to access mount Davis? I see you tubers at games roaming around the stadium but I never seen them in mount Davis
It’s tarped off and closed
Vaguely remember original coliseum . Nobody thought it was great before mt.davis & to an extent it’s over stated how it ruined the park for baseball. Still, it wasn’t good. Biggest problem is the ownership and fan apathy.
It has always had too much foul territory.aThe hot dogs are bad.you need binoculars anywhere beyond field level. Exit traffic is horrible. A black hole!
Let's put the blame where it belongs. What ruined the Coliseum were Mt. Davis and skinflint owners who did not field successful teams except for brief periods.Believe it or not, a large percentage of fans would rather have good baseball than good food at the ballpark.
The basic design of the coliseum will never get better. The foul territory keeps fans so far away from the action. Improvements won't change that
My Davis ruined it. The sump pumps were never reinstalled.
Why did Mt. Davis even need to be built the raiders already played at the coliseum until leaving Oakland the first time. It already had a football configuration.
I agree with you. Whether it's coincidental or not, once Mount Davis went up, the stadium started to show its age quickly.
Most of time they didn’t use Mount Davis for football too.
Coliseum…..looks like a toilet with the seat up
No, RFK Stadium looks like a toilet.
But the feral cats I mean fecal cats love their new home
@@russelltate1394 The kitties better enjoy it now before it gets taken over by Illegals.
So what is the argument going forward? Do we support HT project, or do we hope someone can come in (which I think there was a rumored proposal recently) and try and re-do the Oakland Coliseum from the ground up? I also agree with BEN ALPERS, Mt Davis ruined the scenery of the Oakland Hills, but also restricted the Coliseum from being renovated for Baseball.
I'd rather see the east hills like I used to then a tarp.
Reading between the lines, my take is that Ownership is the biggest problem. How is selling the team coming along?
That wasted tax payer money ruined that stadium and bringing back the raiders now obviously for no reason
You make some great point Brodie I love your articles.
Need to put race track there, there's enough room but the Nimbys wouldn't put up with the racecar noise
Who cares about the stadium! Just give me a good team and be in playoffs often and I'll attend more regularly.
Bad decisions by city officials, horrible maintenance on it cause of it. Combination of timing. Lot bad decisions politicians blame the Raiders and A's front office. Neyland stadium in Knoxville TN is over 100 years old. They took care of place .
All players involved blame each other nothing get done on basic maintenance. This guy hit it right
The DOWN-TURN of the Coliseum ALL started when the 'Raiders' came back to Oakland. And when Fischer took over, was the icing on the cake.
I Miss the ice plant and the view of the hills - the million dollar scoreboard!
Major eye sore is what mt.davis is that whole ice plant area they could've added like picnic areas stomper shape ice plants etc
Mt Davis was the start of what ruined the Coliseum.
If only the A’s could fix the coli up big time. No need to move
Hypothetically, had the Raiders never returned to Oakland in '95, the A's search for a new stadium would have been just as much a reality as it is in the here and now. I loved going to A's and Raider games, but the only thing attractive about the coliseum in pre-'95 baseball configuration WAS the bleachers! Mt. Davis?? Child, please! Love my A's, but it drove me nuts when I heard A's fans whine, "I can't see the Oakland hills anymore." You wanna see hills, go to the hills. Wanna watch baseball, come to the coliseum. It's like experiencing children that grab bright shinny things off the ground and then cry about it when we tell them no. Ugh!
Brodie - as usual, you make great points. The biggest flaw of course is the massive foul territory! The foul territory is mentioned all the time, but it rarely is talked about as something that pushes the fans back, further from the action than any other park in MLB! This problem cannot be fixed. The A's have filled in some seats (Diamond Level etc) but this does not bring the rest of the fans any closer! We need a ballpark designed for baseball only, with every aspect designed for baseball. Howard Terminal is that ballpark!
There is a greater difference between the 29th best baseball stadium and the 30th best baseball stadium (yes, the Oakland Coliseum) than there is between the best baseball stadium and the 29th best baseball stadium.
Rogers Center is FINALLY getting a facelift too.
A baseball field with ridiculously spacious foul territory (fans so far away fron the game), encircled by massive rings of concrete.
I disagree. Those bleacher seats were the best part of the game. We would stomp our feet against the floor of the bleachers and make some crazy noise. Also the $2 ticket was pretty good as well!
What other team has signed great vet players on short deals and traded away up and coming stars so often
Don’t forget: the Dodgers own Dodger Stadium.
The place would be a great cricket pitch.
You are wrong. The Coliseum has always been terrible opposing football teams - that was an local advantage.
If they got rid of Mount Davis it would improve it a lot
Mount Davis did ruin it. It’s an eyesore and takes up millions from the city that could’ve gone toward actual improvements.
great video!
No simply put they get the good players while there young use them up and when it’s time to pay they never have enough money to pay them the A’s as an organization related to much on loyalty from the ppl they had within fans included there’s still plenty of A’s fans but with the team having no talent and no big free agent wanting to go there well you just are where u are now
what a dump, that monstrosity is older than i am
THE ARMPIT OF ALL THE STADIUMS .....
right along with Oakland The Armpit of the USA
Are there any good seats in this dump? It seems like 75% of the seats are a mile away from the field and like most multipurpose stadiums a lot of the seats are pointing the wrong way for baseball.
What if??? What if the powers-that-be had simply vetoed Mt Davis and never built it to begin with??????????
One thing Mount Davis did the Coliseum was take away the view of the hills above Oakland.
Folks the property owner is who you should blame for this deplorable facility,Almeda county runs this stadium on the cheap,that’s not okay, come on man
Wait - Angels Stadium is being replaced??? When was this announced?
For real. That was news to me too
This is news for me too. If the Angels can get a new stadium, so can the A's...
It hasn’t been.
There was talk of the Angles moving to the Oceanside.
This whole thing with the athletics is disgusting 💔🤬
Actually #8 woul dbe New Comiskey in Chicago but I'll give you a pass since most forget about that one.
Wrong …. Mt. Davis killed the Coliseum.
Yeah, it is. Without that eyesore, the Coliseum would be worth salvaging.
New White Sox park is number 8 ?
What ruined the Oakland Coliseum? Oakland.
Mt Davis did ruin the park can't see the great view
The county let it rot is what happened
Mt Davis!!! It looks like Howdy-Doody!!!!!!!!!!
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People just have no faith in the owners making the moves necessary to win. You need to have a top 10 payroll, period. The only people who care about the A's right now are absolute baseball nerds. The Giants had Barry Bonds and 70 home run seasons when they got Pac Bell. You need those bandwagon fans to sell out consistently.
That’s not really true, the A’s have had one of the lowest payrolls, but some of the highest win totals in the MLB, the coliseum has lots of nostalgia, but for most, they want a new updated stadium, games also always look empty because of how big the coliseum is, but even a few years ago when the A’s were in the wild card picture, the first and second deck were pretty full
In my opinion the coliseum is beautiful but in an ugly way
T20 world cup 2024 possible venue
the best thing that can happen to the Coliseum is when they clear it out and blow it up. That place needs to be demolished, not torn down just blow it up once the A's are done there.
Below sea level? So what … nothing new.
Being built in Oakland ruined the Coliseum.
AMEN next to the Hood