This video is such a blessing. I searched for any combat guides when the remaster came out, but found nothing. I'm surprised I managed to understand most of this on my own, but the extra tips will make the rest of hane much better.
Great video! You beat me to making a video like this. I will actually make an all encompassing video anyway at a later time. But there is one really important tip I need to give for battle. This will drastically help players in Eternal Wings. This is coming from a veteran player. The most important tip to remember in battle for selecting the correct corners - Top Right Corner = Right on right stick Top Left Corner = Up on right stick Bottom Left Corner = Left on right stick Bottom Right Corner = Down in right stick You can press the A button to select your card and it will always select the top right corner of the card (default slot). This is very important, as just knowing this eliminates bad decisions and makes the flow of battles very smooth. I don't know why they made it this way, but it is what it is.
-in Eternal Wings I want to emphasize that on top of playing as many cards as there are enemy attacks you can play dead cards during your defensive turns too. It's vital to do so to dig for armour and for better numbers for combos -in Origins you heal to full HP after every battle while you don't in Eternal Wings. This completely changes how fights are designed in each game and how you should use health as a resource and build your decks -EX combos in Origins are a must mention. Getting extra effects or damage based on the specific cards you use in your combo I found the Origins battle system to be much more confusing and difficult to figure out when I first played the games. Figuring out deck ratios is the first big hurdle with three characters to consider and those ratios change as you unlock more discards, there's a lot of cards which are pure bait and don't help you win and the only way to figure that out is through experience, characters sharing the same hand means what you do on one character's turn effects what you can do on the next character's turn. There are way more variables to consider even if there are way fewer card types. It's a big plus that you don't have to go through the tedium of changing 3-6 decks every area and editing them throughout dungeons as new cards drop but the complication of the battle system was a big trade off.
My wife bought me this game for christmas present from playAsia store, i can't wait to play this game again! This time, i will understand more, since i'm no longer a kid haha. Christmas, please, come closer!
THANK YOU for making this, always thought Eternal Wings looked cool as a kid, and now as a huge Monolithsoft fan decided to try the remaster and didnt know wtf was going on with the combat. Huge help.
@@Regis_Philbin I’m so glad! With how big Xenoblade got, I always felt bad that its older sibling never took off in the same way lol. Love than fans of modern Monolithsoft are checking it out finally!
I just bought a copy last night on eBay for the Switch and this video not only got me excited to play it for my first time, but also gave me a sense of piece since I had no idea what I am jumping into. Thank you. 😂😂😂
Very helpful! Like I really wanna know “How does the card game *work*” with things like this, and skimming through reviews hoping they’ll address that is such a hit-or-miss prospect, this was clutch for getting a sense this game will be worth a buy for me
After playing only origins as a kid (age 11) and abandoning it due to lack of understanding, this is just what I needed back then! I just got my hands gamecube bundle (age 29) and am having so much fun all over again! Thanks brodie!
@@ThrillingDuckI bought origins back then on a whim, not having the slightest understanding of the battle system, but still having fun. Once I got to the desert area and couldn't figure out how to get past it, I gave up and returned the game back to the shop. I didn't expect it to cost triple the price more than 10 years later though! Thankfully someone on eBay sold me the set for $40 only! I'm currently on part 1, disc 1. Do you know the difference between discs 1 and 2?
@@rotiofmalice Yeah - unfortunately it’s literally part 2 of the same game lol. Having only disc 1 means you’re basically just gonna be cut off at the halfway point… EDIT: I think I misread your post. What I said about disc 1 and 2 is still true, but I think you have both. Tbh I don’t recall the game distinguishing “part 1” from “disc 1,” so it’s probably just like a narrative chapter marker or something.
@@ThrillingDuck I'm not sure as to why eternal wings and origins each have 2 discs, but I'll find out eventually! I'd rather find out myself than spoil the fun by Googling it.
I played both games back in the day and also bought the remaster. Still, I really enjoy watching videos like this from time to time. Very well explained. I have nothing to add🙂
Appreciate the guide you helped me understand the combat in the first game right away otherwise I would have dropped it cause it was very confusing. I then grew to love it and it was very satisfying getting a great hand for a high damage combo on a boss. Now I'm back after starting Origins and being lost once more 😂. But after watching your video again I get it and am looking forward to seeing how everything plays out.
Love the explanation! If you dont mind, i have some addendums. In Eternal Wings, When defending against an elemental attack, only the opposing element will counter it. You can use a regular defensive armor against a fire attack for every attack, but it will not negate any of the fire damage. So you wont take normal damage but all the fire damage. Also, relay combos in origins can only be done after the previous party member has played a special and the next party member is already in que. In addition the party member in que must also be able to either play a 0 or 1 magnus in order for the relay combo to start. None the less, i love this video! Thank you for explaining this to newer players! I played this religiously as a kid so it was simple to pick it right back up again but it never occured to me how many people would be downright confused at the gameplay for the first time.
I truly had no idea about the elemental defense lol thank you! And for clarifying Relay Combos as well. In practice, I find Relays just sort of happen when they happen haha.
@ThrillingDuck NP, I'm just glad SOMEONE is giving a tutorial. As you said, there's none in either game. Also, I didn't realize until I began playing origins again. Relays can happen only when 0 cards have an "R" in the top right corner of the Magnus, if you choose to use them in the combo. I hope more people pick this game up in spite of the lack of English dub. I'm enjoying my playthroughs throughly.
Can’t wait to try out EWLO in its new form. I just can’t get to the deck builder for some reason on my Switch. The ZL button seems to work fine, clicks, presses and springs back, etc. just doesn’t pull up the menu(s) in BKO anyway.
Hey @thrillingduck great tips. Should make an advance video about Magnus having 2 attributes (both attack and defense) "throwing away/ discarding magnus on healing/ defensive turns. Does using opposing elemental defense also work the same way as attack, do they cancel each other out? I swore I saw a negative prize on defense, not sure how that works.
This is taken from another commenter here: "In Eternal Wings, when defending against an elemental attack, only the opposing element will counter it. You can use a regular defensive armor against a fire attack for every attack, but it will not negate any of the fire damage. So you wont take normal damage but all the fire damage."
I see now! Yes, I dont play much jrpg's so it seems counterintuitive to defend against opposing elements (defend a water attack with a fire shield) but that's the games rules🤷♂️
Yea, I got all the way past *Major Kalos Spoiler* before I found out about how to use the extra numbers with the right stick. It’s a game changer. Also, using some cards in order during battle can change cards.
I played both games for the first time with the remaster, and they were fantastic with _Eternal Wings_ being my favorite of them. Since _Xenoblade Chronicles 2_ is my favorite game of all time, I loved _Eternal Wings_ as I can tell Monolith Soft used that game as an inspiration for XC2. Interestingly, I found _Eternal Wings_ easier to grasp because the game's combat intentionally starts out slow so that the player has time to get used to the mechanics (with your deck size and combo size gradually increasing as you increase your Class Level). On the other hand, _Origins_ throws you right into the fire expecting you to grasp everything quickly as early-game enemies like Giacomo can do massive damage at relatively high speed. The biggest thing I learned that I only found out after the game is that it's actually more optimal in _Origins_ to have a smaller deck of about 30 cards than it is to use a 60-card deck. _Eternal Wings_ incentivizes you to use a full deck because any deck below the max capacity will just be filled out with Pass cards, which are just filler/dummy cards. Since your deck will be the same size no matter what, there's no point in having empty slots since Pass cards neither save you any time nor boost your probability of getting the card you want. Conversely, _Origins_ does not have any Pass cards, so you have full control over the deck size from the very start of the game (meaning 60 is possible from the start); however, deck size now being variable makes a HUGE impact on the flow of combat as well as your efficiency in battle. For example, if you have a 60-card deck, you have a hand size of 7 as well as the card in the "Next" slot, meaning you have 8 cards visible on screen. The probability of drawing the card you want from the remaining deck is just 1/52. Plus, you'll have to use/discard 52 cards to reshuffle the deck, which takes a very long time. On the other hand, if you have a 30-card deck, you have a hand size of 6 as well as the card in the "Next" slot, meaning there are 7 cards visible on screen. On the surface, it may seem less efficient since there's one fewer card you can select from, but the true benefit is that the probability of getting the card you want from the remaining deck is now 1/23. Your probability of getting your ideal card is much higher once you decrease the deck size, and your deck also reshuffles only after using/discarding 23 cards, meaning you can cycle through your deck more often to get the cards you need. While combat in _Origins_ may have a faster pace as well as a more straightforward approach, you have to be more efficient at a higher speed since you no longer have defensive turns to block enemy attacks. Armor Magnus don't do all that much to reduce the enemy's damage since those damage numbers are often way higher than your armor can handle, and with enemies healing themselves way more often, you can't play conservatively or defensively like you could in the first game. Battles may be drawn out in the first game if you play defensively, but you'll still reach the end eventually. If you play defensively in the second game, you'll be killed very quickly, especially since bosses now have crazy AoE wipeout moves. Really, the best defensive strategy in _Origins_ is to just stock up on Mountain Apples to boost your Max HP. If you're like me and played through half of the game with lots of defensive items and played through the whole game with a 60-card deck, you will find combat to be much harder since enemies in _Origins_ are not as forgiving. The downside of streamlining combat in _Origins_ is that the game now expects you to know the ins and outs from the very start, unlike how _Eternal Wings_ slowly opens up over time so that you have more options as you get better. The true wall in which you're essentially forced to learn how to play optimally is the Holoholobird, a.k.a. "that fucker."
I actually fell victim to the Holoholo Bird softlock as a kid and I STILL love Origins. But yes, I should have mentioned that it's better to keep your deck small and tight in Origins, and not feel obligated to fill it up.
For BATEN KAITOS 1 and is early to late game depending on if you can get enough cards to get a deck of 3 and 4 on number cards, IMO for Defense ALWAYS PLAY A DEFENSE A CARD NO MATTER WHAT!? The difference is huge! Those combos help but aren't needed. IMO for offense it's generally a good idea to see what the multipliers are like because from my testing breaking a straight for a finisher is always more than keeping the straight and finishers are DEAD HAND WEIGHT and need to be used when able and the same goes for if one appears from a combo. Usually you will find out what works for you and that ALWAYS WORKS THE BEST! 😃
Thanks for laying out a much-needed tutorial on both these games. I haven't played BK1 in years and I just reached the fishing village and realized that I'm getting poisoned a lot. Naturally, I tried healing with in-battle items (described as "cure 60% ailment" or something), and NOTHING is actually curing poison except for resting/camp items. I keep seeing that this is a glitch exclusive to the Remastered version on forums- any tips or insight on this?? Btw, I don't have any equipped items that cause ailments, and it's just from running into enemies who spam that poison flame attack.
Unfortunately, I don't know of any alternative solutions to healing poison :/ I basically just brute forced my way through enemies that dished it out and had better luck with the ailment purging RNG rolls. Poisoning enemies definitely don't run rampant throughout the entire game though, so just hang in there for now!
@@ThrillingDuck That's the thing though, I don't think you can heal poison through RNG rolls/in-battle items in the Remaster (at least that's what I'm seeing in my experience and through other forums describing the same issue). It just leads me to believe that I'll be stuck getting my health drained constantly through dungeons/boss fights; Which if that's the case and it's bugged then I might just move on to the sequel.
I’d add tho that in eternal wings, in the beginning, it’s kinda counter productive to think only about the numbers, example you played 2 8s and didn’t play a 3rd card that would probably give idk around 40 damage and you chose to keep just 2 8s that gave you in the end 5 more damage total.
I think you’re saying it’s counterproductive to think about damage numbers, right? Exactly, hence my saying “it’s better to play 1 or 2 cards fewer but actually make a combo than to play the maximum number of cards and not make a combo” :)
@@ThrillingDuck no I mean, and this observation is only for the early game, it’s better to play 3 cards and not have a pair or a three of a kind than just have one pair. Most of the time 3 cards will do more than just a pair
I've yet to see anything mentioning the combo changing cards that just appears seemingly out of the blue on Kalas. They mostly seem to trigger with the use of neutral attack cards, but there's nothing that let's you look at what it was
Sorry - I forgot to mention Guardian Spirit cards because they're pretty rare and have a very trivial affect on combat. Basically once in a while (more frequently if your relationship or sync with Kalas is better, but still a negligible amount of the time) a random card in your hand will change into a unique special attack magnus. As far as I know, the element and spirit number are both random, and they frequently won't slot into your combo, so I just ignore them a lot of the time.
Currently playing the Remaster of the first Game and I‘m surprised I understood most of the Combat (except for the Wildcards). I do feel bad though for everyone that didn‘t talk to that NPC early on that explains most of the mechanics to you
@@OneCoolCatKC Lol you’re absolutely right! Eternal Wings handles those like such an afterthought I didn’t even think to include them lol. At the very least I’m pretty sure there’s some NPC dialogue to clue new players into that detail. Thanks!
@@ThrillingDuck Yeah! I can see why you missed it. In my first playthrough I never got them much. I could not agree with Kalas at times because he was….kind of a jerk. lol
Question; how can i use magnus in the world? I see a log that says if I had fire I could burn it, and I have a fire sword magnus but it won't react to it.
Quest Magnus are the ones that are used in the field. You can rifle through them to select one with the right stick. If you didn't know about that then you probably just haven't unlocked them yet - just play a little further :) Sounds like you're playing Eternal Wings - I'm pretty sure you get Quest Magnus upon returning to the starting village after finishing that first forest dungeon.
Hi there! I'm here being sad modern games (and re-releases) rarely come with manuals. I feel like the in-game help section is hardly helpful. I love Eternal Wings and I've played it on the Gamecube a bunch of times, and just recently got Origins with the remaster, as we didn't have it in Europe before. I guess I just need to play more of it to understand what is going on in the battle system. I like playing cards, so the poker'ish rules to Eternal Wings' battle system are understandable to me. (Maybe I should look up the original manual for Origins online.) Also, the Origins story didn't really grab me from the start, so I'm still in the beginning. The way Eternal Wings starts you off with this somewhat unlikeable guy losing his memory - that really worked for me, and I kept wanting to find out what happens next. I wonder if anyone actually liked or likes Kalas as a character? I never liked him from the start, and disagreed with him quite a bit. :D In later runs I try to agree with him more to get those special attacks to pop off more often, but that just makes me feel dirty. :D Sorry for ranting, but hey, always happy to see anyone mention these games. Keep up the good work! Have a nice rest of your day! \o/
Guys.. I need some help.. I didn't understand why 5344355 is a valid combo but if I add a 6 or 7 it is canceled .. can someone explain this to me? I can see two 44 and 55 but the other numbers are basically lost in this string for me.
There are also two 3s in that combo! There would be nothing wrong with adding two or more 6s or 7s - the issue is adding any numbers in isolation. If you add only a single copy of a certain number to an otherwise valid combo, then the whole combo is invalidated. That's what I meant by "stray cards." :)
You know what makes this game even tougher, playing this game to immerse yourself in another language to help you learn it. Currently playing it in German.
I’m not sure you can micromanage their positions like that, but it’s not necessary since they get shuffled anyway. That said, you should be able to sort them so that they’re at least organized.
@@ThrillingDuckso then is coming across a combo just something that happens at random? Do I only play one or two cards at a time to "hold" my hand? I feel like the defense and offense phases I am trying to build two separate hands...
@@meegz149 So, deckbuilders are about trying to build a consistent enough deck that you can generally conjure up an option or 2 at any given time, regardless of the hand you draw. Figuring out the best possible play with the hand you're dealt is the fun of the genre, even if it's fundamentally less efficient than a traditional menu-based system.
"baten kaitos has literally no footage on youtube posted by people who actually understand how the combat works" And here I thought I understood the game I praised in a video about unique combat systems a few years ago. Also, I don't think most players played through the game without grasping the combat system. Maybe the didn't master it, maybe they didn't find all the special card combinations, but the poker hand system is easy to discover, as are the opposing elements and the time affected items. You made a fine little guide, but your premise is a bit weird.
I literally had to get a capture card because when I went to pull pre-existing footage literally no one was making even basic combos. I’m not sure what’s so weird or hard to follow about that. Keep in mind I was looking at raw playthrough footage. You’ll forgive me for not happening to stumble across one random obscure channel that had it buried among a bunch of short reviews for other games in the same video, seeing as that would never have had enough footage dedicated to it in the first place.
Not in one attack, no. The only exception to that is a few of the special technique cards in Origins hit all enemies instead of just the target, but broadly speaking each combo in both games only targets one unit. The game is built around that though, as you’ll never have more than 3 or so enemies at once in a battle.
See, the funny thing is, I have no problem with Eternal Wings combat, but I can't figure out Origins to save my life. How do you handle defending? Is it best to just automatically use one armor card per turn, just in case? It's really not explained well in game.
So, in Origins you’re basically choosing whether to equip a weapon card or an armor card at any given time - usually just based on what you drew lol. You simply can’t equip both at once. In practice, equipment cards act like a semi-random bonus to either your offense or defense. If you value one over the other, your best bet is simply to take the other out. It’s a little difficult to hyper-optimize in a game like Origins, but the difficulty simply doesn’t call for that, so it’s fine. As long as your deck’s balance is competent, you’ll be fine :)
So basically, in Origins you don't 'defend' per say, it's more that you buff your stats in preparation for taking a hit. I can see the logic. Honestly, I think I will definitely prefer Lost Ocean when all is said and done, but I do want to play Origins. It's just a HUGE change in gameplay.
@@moonwatcher99 It’s a huge change for sure, and when I was younger I absolutely preferred Eternal Wings’ combat. I eventually grew to prefer Origins for its addictive speed, but they’re so different it’s wholly a matter of personal taste. I still love both though.
@@ThrillingDuck I'm really glad they finally released this thing on Switch. I've been telling people about it for years. The GC had so many great rpg's that received very limited print. We got Baten Kaitos and Tales of Symphonia, now we just need Skies of Arcadia to finish the deal. (Okay, getting Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn Fire Emblems wouldn't hurt either, lol.)
Despite having played both games in the past.. and people saying Origins is easier... just by watching the gameplay Origins looks way more confusing to me xD
I literally couldnt play eternal wings bc I couldnt get the combat down as a kid and just played origins so this helped a lot since Im now playing the remaster... Too bad I had to download a english mod to get the dub instead of the Japanese crap. Like wtf nintendo why? It makes absolutely no sense to remove the dub, especially since modders made a mod for both as of today as they just released the origins mod too.
Sounds like origins combat is much more boring than in eternal wings. I have only played Eternal wings and I really liked how flexible it was. It is too bad they dumb down things in origins.
@@Baoran Origins’ combat is more about speed. The flow the battles is faster, and combos are more restrictive because the game gives you less time to think. Enemies also hit MUCH harder, and the combat punishes you severely for having bad deck ratios. The 2 combat systems are really apples and oranges - they didn’t dumb things down, they’re just very different. That said, they’re also different enough that people will inevitably have their preferences.
@@Baoran Sure! But Origins has an ATB system, which plenty of beloved classic RPGs have (Chrono Trigger, FF4-6, etc). On top of that, deck builders are about making the best possible plays with the hand you're dealt, when all your options aren't immediately available to you in a menu.
is this game impossibly hard? is this a grind fest? lord of the spring, fireballs, rainbow spider, manor soldiers, giacomo and cloud island cats were all unbeatable for me. these weren't even close calls. they were impossible. i don't want to cheat myself through the game. i use pairs, straights and the right elements. i'm fully leveled up. the game is supposd to be easy according to the internet. what am i doing wrong. every opponent is much too strong. i completely regret wasting my money right now.
This is highly unusual. Have you been avoiding normal enemy encounters? Eternal Wings is much easier than Origins on average, and Origins isn’t very difficult if you build your deck well. If your decks are solid in Eternal Wings and you’re having that much trouble, then it sounds like you’re just under leveled. Both of these games have zero grinding required so long as you tackle all normal enemies that you see when you enter a screen. If you’ve been doing that, then the only other thing I can think of is that your deck isn’t as good as you’re indicating it is. Even if you use combos, you still need strong cards in your combos. Are your cards up to date for where you are in the game?
@@ThrillingDuck i'm only at the fishing village. that's what frustrates me so much. i'm at the beginning of the game. there shouldn't even be many things i can do wrong at this point. my characters are level eight class two. i only found one piece of gear. my decks are 25/25. my cards are the first six sword magnus, the first ten spell cards and random equip magnus. almost all my healing spoiled into other stuff. what is a good deck? i remove opposing elements and try to keeps card types balanced. that's no longer possible since most of my healing spoiled. now it's mostly damage and defense.
@@yoshoverse Hmm, I feel bad - I'm not sure what else to suggest. I'm pretty sure you can replenish your healing items at magnus shops. You can also make use of field magnus to heal in between battles (those like shish-kebab and cracker platter magnus lol). If you have Gibari, you should have a full party of 3, which should make combat more manageable. If battles are going so poorly, try a post-mortem approach. What exactly is going wrong? Are you simply not drawing what you need when you need it? Try altering your deck ratios (ex. more offensive cards than defensive ones, or vice verca, rather than 50/50 split). Are you simply not doing enough damage or are enemies doing too much damage? Sounds like you just need levels or better cards in that case. It's admittedly difficult for me to fully accurately assess the difficulty because I grew up with these games, but I can say with certainty that Eternal Wings is by far the easier and more forgiving of the two titles. If it's any consolation, I genuinely think the combat here becomes a little easier (on average) the farther you progress, because you have more options and longer combo strings.
@@ThrillingDuck i haven't used the stores much. earning money in this game is difficult with one camera. i'll either get ouclassed completely or i'll get chipped down in a couple of fights. i found that ignoring prizes actually works better but i'm still getting wrecked. maybe the third character will help. i'm really not sure what i'm doing wrong.
@@yoshoverse Ah I think you may be going down the wrong path! If you’re at Nashira but don’t have Gibari yet then you’re probably going down the cloudy path. They open that up before you’re supposed to go there to progress haha. Explore Nashira more thoroughly and recruit Gibari, then take his boat out from the dock to the lesser celestial river (rather than exiting town on foot). That’s your next story destination. If you’re attempting the cloudy path early and with only 2 party members, that explains the problem.
What the actual hell were they thinking NOT putting a tutorial for this system in the game, especially the remaster version simce its newer? This video is god send.......even tho i think I'll have to watch it a few time to understand it fully. 🫤
In Eternal Wings, there is TECHNICALLY a verbal tutorial from an old man NPC in like the second room of the first dungeon for anyone who actually has the patience to sit there and read a mountain of text as like the first thing they do in the game lol. Origins doesn’t even have that though as far as I know.
Just picked this game up on sale from the eShop for $30. Thanks for this!
This video is such a blessing. I searched for any combat guides when the remaster came out, but found nothing.
I'm surprised I managed to understand most of this on my own, but the extra tips will make the rest of hane much better.
Me who's beaten each game 3 times: hmmm interesting.
0:34 Monolith Soft gonna Monolith Soft
Xenoblade X: Here‘s how to start a Battle. Good luck them :)
You sir deserve the highest praise for making this tutorial ✊️
Great video! You beat me to making a video like this. I will actually make an all encompassing video anyway at a later time. But there is one really important tip I need to give for battle. This will drastically help players in Eternal Wings. This is coming from a veteran player.
The most important tip to remember in battle for selecting the correct corners -
Top Right Corner = Right on right stick
Top Left Corner = Up on right stick
Bottom Left Corner = Left on right stick
Bottom Right Corner = Down in right stick
You can press the A button to select your card and it will always select the top right corner of the card (default slot). This is very important, as just knowing this eliminates bad decisions and makes the flow of battles very smooth. I don't know why they made it this way, but it is what it is.
This is exactly what I was looking for after starting the remaster and just being lost. Thanks so much!
My pleasure! As much as I love these games, their lack of direction in teaching their unusual mechanics is not their best feature lol.
Playing it on my switch for the first time in YEEEEARS!! the nostalgia is overwhelming
-in Eternal Wings I want to emphasize that on top of playing as many cards as there are enemy attacks you can play dead cards during your defensive turns too. It's vital to do so to dig for armour and for better numbers for combos
-in Origins you heal to full HP after every battle while you don't in Eternal Wings. This completely changes how fights are designed in each game and how you should use health as a resource and build your decks
-EX combos in Origins are a must mention. Getting extra effects or damage based on the specific cards you use in your combo
I found the Origins battle system to be much more confusing and difficult to figure out when I first played the games. Figuring out deck ratios is the first big hurdle with three characters to consider and those ratios change as you unlock more discards, there's a lot of cards which are pure bait and don't help you win and the only way to figure that out is through experience, characters sharing the same hand means what you do on one character's turn effects what you can do on the next character's turn. There are way more variables to consider even if there are way fewer card types. It's a big plus that you don't have to go through the tedium of changing 3-6 decks every area and editing them throughout dungeons as new cards drop but the complication of the battle system was a big trade off.
I'm so glad you made this video, I tried to look for something like this when the remaster released and I couldn't find any
My wife bought me this game for christmas present from playAsia store, i can't wait to play this game again! This time, i will understand more, since i'm no longer a kid haha. Christmas, please, come closer!
THANK YOU for making this, always thought Eternal Wings looked cool as a kid, and now as a huge Monolithsoft fan decided to try the remaster and didnt know wtf was going on with the combat. Huge help.
@@Regis_Philbin I’m so glad! With how big Xenoblade got, I always felt bad that its older sibling never took off in the same way lol. Love than fans of modern Monolithsoft are checking it out finally!
Thank you!!!! Just started the first game and had no idea what I was doing.
You promised. You delivered. Subscribed af.
Lmao thank you!
I just bought a copy last night on eBay for the Switch and this video not only got me excited to play it for my first time, but also gave me a sense of piece since I had no idea what I am jumping into. Thank you. 😂😂😂
Enjoy it!
Very helpful!
Like I really wanna know “How does the card game *work*” with things like this, and skimming through reviews hoping they’ll address that is such a hit-or-miss prospect, this was clutch for getting a sense this game will be worth a buy for me
After playing only origins as a kid (age 11) and abandoning it due to lack of understanding, this is just what I needed back then! I just got my hands gamecube bundle (age 29) and am having so much fun all over again! Thanks brodie!
@@kikusu47 So glad! You got it broham 👍
@@ThrillingDuckI bought origins back then on a whim, not having the slightest understanding of the battle system, but still having fun. Once I got to the desert area and couldn't figure out how to get past it, I gave up and returned the game back to the shop. I didn't expect it to cost triple the price more than 10 years later though! Thankfully someone on eBay sold me the set for $40 only! I'm currently on part 1, disc 1. Do you know the difference between discs 1 and 2?
@@rotiofmalice Yeah - unfortunately it’s literally part 2 of the same game lol. Having only disc 1 means you’re basically just gonna be cut off at the halfway point…
EDIT: I think I misread your post. What I said about disc 1 and 2 is still true, but I think you have both. Tbh I don’t recall the game distinguishing “part 1” from “disc 1,” so it’s probably just like a narrative chapter marker or something.
@@ThrillingDuck I'm not sure as to why eternal wings and origins each have 2 discs, but I'll find out eventually! I'd rather find out myself than spoil the fun by Googling it.
This video alone gained you a sub. I'm about 10hrs in, just free the castle in the clouds, and still a little confused.
@@War624 It really is baffling that there’s no tutorial in these games lol
I'm so glad they remastered these games and thank you for making content for them!
This is a nice refresher course. Especially for Lost Ocean.
Been playing tge HD Remaster and I'm blazing through it because of the Spirit numbers.
Excellent tutorial for new players. I LOVE these two games so much!
Just picked up the remaster now, not a big fan of card games but your earlier vid sold me on the story, and this vid is very informative
Awesome, I really hope you enjoy it! These games are such under appreciated gems imo (as you well know by now lol).
I played both games back in the day and also bought the remaster. Still, I really enjoy watching videos like this from time to time. Very well explained. I have nothing to add🙂
Appreciate the guide you helped me understand the combat in the first game right away otherwise I would have dropped it cause it was very confusing. I then grew to love it and it was very satisfying getting a great hand for a high damage combo on a boss.
Now I'm back after starting Origins and being lost once more 😂. But after watching your video again I get it and am looking forward to seeing how everything plays out.
Glad to hear it! Thanks for sharing :)
I only just picked this up on switch, thanks for the in depth tutorial, it's really going to help me going forward! :D
Love the explanation! If you dont mind, i have some addendums. In Eternal Wings, When defending against an elemental attack, only the opposing element will counter it. You can use a regular defensive armor against a fire attack for every attack, but it will not negate any of the fire damage. So you wont take normal damage but all the fire damage.
Also, relay combos in origins can only be done after the previous party member has played a special and the next party member is already in que. In addition the party member in que must also be able to either play a 0 or 1 magnus in order for the relay combo to start.
None the less, i love this video! Thank you for explaining this to newer players! I played this religiously as a kid so it was simple to pick it right back up again but it never occured to me how many people would be downright confused at the gameplay for the first time.
I truly had no idea about the elemental defense lol thank you! And for clarifying Relay Combos as well. In practice, I find Relays just sort of happen when they happen haha.
@ThrillingDuck NP, I'm just glad SOMEONE is giving a tutorial. As you said, there's none in either game. Also, I didn't realize until I began playing origins again. Relays can happen only when 0 cards have an "R" in the top right corner of the Magnus, if you choose to use them in the combo. I hope more people pick this game up in spite of the lack of English dub. I'm enjoying my playthroughs throughly.
Thanks! It’s maddening how undervalued these games are. Monolith Soft is amazing. I started playing them recently.
You have earned a sub! Great video! I'm playing for the first time and this is REALLY helpful! 👊🏼🤝
Thanks so much! I'm really glad to hear it :)
Just beat that first water dragon boss and had no idea what the hell I was doing. Thanks for this
Good. I got it by myself it seems. Assumed there was more to it I just didn't know yet but it was really just poker with elemental bonuses in the end
thank you. i love you.
Can’t wait to try out EWLO in its new form. I just can’t get to the deck builder for some reason on my Switch. The ZL button seems to work fine, clicks, presses and springs back, etc. just doesn’t pull up the menu(s) in BKO anyway.
Hey @thrillingduck great tips. Should make an advance video about Magnus having 2 attributes (both attack and defense) "throwing away/ discarding magnus on healing/ defensive turns.
Does using opposing elemental defense also work the same way as attack, do they cancel each other out? I swore I saw a negative prize on defense, not sure how that works.
This is taken from another commenter here: "In Eternal Wings, when defending against an elemental attack, only the opposing element will counter it. You can use a regular defensive armor against a fire attack for every attack, but it will not negate any of the fire damage. So you wont take normal damage but all the fire damage."
I see now! Yes, I dont play much jrpg's so it seems counterintuitive to defend against opposing elements (defend a water attack with a fire shield) but that's the games rules🤷♂️
@@JessP1 You’re not wrong, and funnily enough they reversed it back to what you’d expect in Origins lol
Bros out here fighting the good fight for a criminally underrated 10/10 game😭😭😭
Yea, I got all the way past *Major Kalos Spoiler* before I found out about how to use the extra numbers with the right stick. It’s a game changer.
Also, using some cards in order during battle can change cards.
I did not know that the other corners could be selected with right stick, thank you.
I played both games for the first time with the remaster, and they were fantastic with _Eternal Wings_ being my favorite of them. Since _Xenoblade Chronicles 2_ is my favorite game of all time, I loved _Eternal Wings_ as I can tell Monolith Soft used that game as an inspiration for XC2.
Interestingly, I found _Eternal Wings_ easier to grasp because the game's combat intentionally starts out slow so that the player has time to get used to the mechanics (with your deck size and combo size gradually increasing as you increase your Class Level). On the other hand, _Origins_ throws you right into the fire expecting you to grasp everything quickly as early-game enemies like Giacomo can do massive damage at relatively high speed.
The biggest thing I learned that I only found out after the game is that it's actually more optimal in _Origins_ to have a smaller deck of about 30 cards than it is to use a 60-card deck. _Eternal Wings_ incentivizes you to use a full deck because any deck below the max capacity will just be filled out with Pass cards, which are just filler/dummy cards. Since your deck will be the same size no matter what, there's no point in having empty slots since Pass cards neither save you any time nor boost your probability of getting the card you want. Conversely, _Origins_ does not have any Pass cards, so you have full control over the deck size from the very start of the game (meaning 60 is possible from the start); however, deck size now being variable makes a HUGE impact on the flow of combat as well as your efficiency in battle.
For example, if you have a 60-card deck, you have a hand size of 7 as well as the card in the "Next" slot, meaning you have 8 cards visible on screen. The probability of drawing the card you want from the remaining deck is just 1/52. Plus, you'll have to use/discard 52 cards to reshuffle the deck, which takes a very long time. On the other hand, if you have a 30-card deck, you have a hand size of 6 as well as the card in the "Next" slot, meaning there are 7 cards visible on screen. On the surface, it may seem less efficient since there's one fewer card you can select from, but the true benefit is that the probability of getting the card you want from the remaining deck is now 1/23. Your probability of getting your ideal card is much higher once you decrease the deck size, and your deck also reshuffles only after using/discarding 23 cards, meaning you can cycle through your deck more often to get the cards you need.
While combat in _Origins_ may have a faster pace as well as a more straightforward approach, you have to be more efficient at a higher speed since you no longer have defensive turns to block enemy attacks. Armor Magnus don't do all that much to reduce the enemy's damage since those damage numbers are often way higher than your armor can handle, and with enemies healing themselves way more often, you can't play conservatively or defensively like you could in the first game. Battles may be drawn out in the first game if you play defensively, but you'll still reach the end eventually. If you play defensively in the second game, you'll be killed very quickly, especially since bosses now have crazy AoE wipeout moves. Really, the best defensive strategy in _Origins_ is to just stock up on Mountain Apples to boost your Max HP.
If you're like me and played through half of the game with lots of defensive items and played through the whole game with a 60-card deck, you will find combat to be much harder since enemies in _Origins_ are not as forgiving. The downside of streamlining combat in _Origins_ is that the game now expects you to know the ins and outs from the very start, unlike how _Eternal Wings_ slowly opens up over time so that you have more options as you get better. The true wall in which you're essentially forced to learn how to play optimally is the Holoholobird, a.k.a. "that fucker."
I actually fell victim to the Holoholo Bird softlock as a kid and I STILL love Origins. But yes, I should have mentioned that it's better to keep your deck small and tight in Origins, and not feel obligated to fill it up.
Enjoying the game so far. Was absolutely bamboozled when I reached the first boss without encountering a single "proper" tutorial
@@shizlgzngar6470 Yeah, definitely an “interesting” design decision to not incorporate a tutorial into such an unusual battle system lol.
Definitely deserves more views
For BATEN KAITOS 1 and is early to late game depending on if you can get enough cards to get a deck of 3 and 4 on number cards,
IMO for Defense ALWAYS PLAY A DEFENSE A CARD NO MATTER WHAT!? The difference is huge! Those combos help but aren't needed.
IMO for offense it's generally a good idea to see what the multipliers are like because from my testing breaking a straight for a finisher is always more than keeping the straight and finishers are DEAD HAND WEIGHT and need to be used when able and the same goes for if one appears from a combo.
Usually you will find out what works for you and that ALWAYS WORKS THE BEST! 😃
Excellent vid as always
Thanks for laying out a much-needed tutorial on both these games. I haven't played BK1 in years and I just reached the fishing village and realized that I'm getting poisoned a lot. Naturally, I tried healing with in-battle items (described as "cure 60% ailment" or something), and NOTHING is actually curing poison except for resting/camp items.
I keep seeing that this is a glitch exclusive to the Remastered version on forums- any tips or insight on this?? Btw, I don't have any equipped items that cause ailments, and it's just from running into enemies who spam that poison flame attack.
Unfortunately, I don't know of any alternative solutions to healing poison :/ I basically just brute forced my way through enemies that dished it out and had better luck with the ailment purging RNG rolls.
Poisoning enemies definitely don't run rampant throughout the entire game though, so just hang in there for now!
@@ThrillingDuck That's the thing though, I don't think you can heal poison through RNG rolls/in-battle items in the Remaster (at least that's what I'm seeing in my experience and through other forums describing the same issue).
It just leads me to believe that I'll be stuck getting my health drained constantly through dungeons/boss fights; Which if that's the case and it's bugged then I might just move on to the sequel.
Thank you so much for this video, very helpful! 😀
Glad I could help!
Got the remaster for my steam deck, so this is gonna be a god send! Have you done more on this game?
@@neoandroid8586 Only an earlier video trying to convince people to actually play it lol.
Thanks for this
I’d add tho that in eternal wings, in the beginning, it’s kinda counter productive to think only about the numbers, example you played 2 8s and didn’t play a 3rd card that would probably give idk around 40 damage and you chose to keep just 2 8s that gave you in the end 5 more damage total.
I think you’re saying it’s counterproductive to think about damage numbers, right? Exactly, hence my saying “it’s better to play 1 or 2 cards fewer but actually make a combo than to play the maximum number of cards and not make a combo” :)
@@ThrillingDuck no I mean, and this observation is only for the early game, it’s better to play 3 cards and not have a pair or a three of a kind than just have one pair. Most of the time 3 cards will do more than just a pair
@@sophianlamarre4565 Oh I see. In that case just for the early game, yeah. I’m not a min-maxer lol, I just engage with the game mechanics.
I've yet to see anything mentioning the combo changing cards that just appears seemingly out of the blue on Kalas. They mostly seem to trigger with the use of neutral attack cards, but there's nothing that let's you look at what it was
Sorry - I forgot to mention Guardian Spirit cards because they're pretty rare and have a very trivial affect on combat.
Basically once in a while (more frequently if your relationship or sync with Kalas is better, but still a negligible amount of the time) a random card in your hand will change into a unique special attack magnus. As far as I know, the element and spirit number are both random, and they frequently won't slot into your combo, so I just ignore them a lot of the time.
@@ThrillingDuck i see!
Currently playing the Remaster of the first Game and I‘m surprised I understood most of the Combat (except for the Wildcards).
I do feel bad though for everyone that didn‘t talk to that NPC early on that explains most of the mechanics to you
Thank you so much for this!
Very useful tips video.
You forgot to cover Guardian Spirit attack cards. But other than that this is an amazing guide! Thank you!
@@OneCoolCatKC Lol you’re absolutely right! Eternal Wings handles those like such an afterthought I didn’t even think to include them lol. At the very least I’m pretty sure there’s some NPC dialogue to clue new players into that detail. Thanks!
@@ThrillingDuck Yeah! I can see why you missed it. In my first playthrough I never got them much. I could not agree with Kalas at times because he was….kind of a jerk. lol
Thank you bro
Thank you.
The original never told me you could choos the Spirit number with the C stick. Does that still exist in some form in the remaster?
Yup! Just use the right stick :)
Playing on my GC with hdmi mod, framebuffer and 480p forced. Superb game, BK-1 that is.
Question; how can i use magnus in the world? I see a log that says if I had fire I could burn it, and I have a fire sword magnus but it won't react to it.
Quest Magnus are the ones that are used in the field. You can rifle through them to select one with the right stick. If you didn't know about that then you probably just haven't unlocked them yet - just play a little further :) Sounds like you're playing Eternal Wings - I'm pretty sure you get Quest Magnus upon returning to the starting village after finishing that first forest dungeon.
@@ThrillingDuck thank you very much
@@blkwng Np!
Hi there! I'm here being sad modern games (and re-releases) rarely come with manuals. I feel like the in-game help section is hardly helpful. I love Eternal Wings and I've played it on the Gamecube a bunch of times, and just recently got Origins with the remaster, as we didn't have it in Europe before. I guess I just need to play more of it to understand what is going on in the battle system. I like playing cards, so the poker'ish rules to Eternal Wings' battle system are understandable to me. (Maybe I should look up the original manual for Origins online.)
Also, the Origins story didn't really grab me from the start, so I'm still in the beginning. The way Eternal Wings starts you off with this somewhat unlikeable guy losing his memory - that really worked for me, and I kept wanting to find out what happens next. I wonder if anyone actually liked or likes Kalas as a character? I never liked him from the start, and disagreed with him quite a bit. :D In later runs I try to agree with him more to get those special attacks to pop off more often, but that just makes me feel dirty. :D
Sorry for ranting, but hey, always happy to see anyone mention these games. Keep up the good work! Have a nice rest of your day! \o/
Guys.. I need some help.. I didn't understand why 5344355 is a valid combo but if I add a 6 or 7 it is canceled .. can someone explain this to me? I can see two 44 and 55 but the other numbers are basically lost in this string for me.
There are also two 3s in that combo! There would be nothing wrong with adding two or more 6s or 7s - the issue is adding any numbers in isolation. If you add only a single copy of a certain number to an otherwise valid combo, then the whole combo is invalidated. That's what I meant by "stray cards." :)
Ty ❤
You know what makes this game even tougher, playing this game to immerse yourself in another language to help you learn it. Currently playing it in German.
How do i insert card in the middle of the deck instead of the end?
I’m not sure you can micromanage their positions like that, but it’s not necessary since they get shuffled anyway. That said, you should be able to sort them so that they’re at least organized.
@@ThrillingDuckso then is coming across a combo just something that happens at random? Do I only play one or two cards at a time to "hold" my hand? I feel like the defense and offense phases I am trying to build two separate hands...
@@meegz149 So, deckbuilders are about trying to build a consistent enough deck that you can generally conjure up an option or 2 at any given time, regardless of the hand you draw. Figuring out the best possible play with the hand you're dealt is the fun of the genre, even if it's fundamentally less efficient than a traditional menu-based system.
"baten kaitos has literally no footage on youtube posted by people who actually understand how the combat works"
And here I thought I understood the game I praised in a video about unique combat systems a few years ago.
Also, I don't think most players played through the game without grasping the combat system. Maybe the didn't master it, maybe they didn't find all the special card combinations, but the poker hand system is easy to discover, as are the opposing elements and the time affected items.
You made a fine little guide, but your premise is a bit weird.
I literally had to get a capture card because when I went to pull pre-existing footage literally no one was making even basic combos. I’m not sure what’s so weird or hard to follow about that.
Keep in mind I was looking at raw playthrough footage. You’ll forgive me for not happening to stumble across one random obscure channel that had it buried among a bunch of short reviews for other games in the same video, seeing as that would never have had enough footage dedicated to it in the first place.
@@ThrillingDuck hey, you were the one who incorrectly used the word "literally" on the internet
I’m not in front of the RM right now but did you say you can target multiple enemies??
Not in one attack, no. The only exception to that is a few of the special technique cards in Origins hit all enemies instead of just the target, but broadly speaking each combo in both games only targets one unit. The game is built around that though, as you’ll never have more than 3 or so enemies at once in a battle.
See, the funny thing is, I have no problem with Eternal Wings combat, but I can't figure out Origins to save my life. How do you handle defending? Is it best to just automatically use one armor card per turn, just in case? It's really not explained well in game.
So, in Origins you’re basically choosing whether to equip a weapon card or an armor card at any given time - usually just based on what you drew lol. You simply can’t equip both at once. In practice, equipment cards act like a semi-random bonus to either your offense or defense. If you value one over the other, your best bet is simply to take the other out.
It’s a little difficult to hyper-optimize in a game like Origins, but the difficulty simply doesn’t call for that, so it’s fine. As long as your deck’s balance is competent, you’ll be fine :)
So basically, in Origins you don't 'defend' per say, it's more that you buff your stats in preparation for taking a hit. I can see the logic. Honestly, I think I will definitely prefer Lost Ocean when all is said and done, but I do want to play Origins. It's just a HUGE change in gameplay.
@@moonwatcher99 It’s a huge change for sure, and when I was younger I absolutely preferred Eternal Wings’ combat. I eventually grew to prefer Origins for its addictive speed, but they’re so different it’s wholly a matter of personal taste. I still love both though.
@@ThrillingDuck I'm really glad they finally released this thing on Switch. I've been telling people about it for years. The GC had so many great rpg's that received very limited print. We got Baten Kaitos and Tales of Symphonia, now we just need Skies of Arcadia to finish the deal. (Okay, getting Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn Fire Emblems wouldn't hurt either, lol.)
Despite having played both games in the past.. and people saying Origins is easier... just by watching the gameplay Origins looks way more confusing to me xD
Both games kind of ease you in by starting you off with only 1 controllable party member :)
I literally couldnt play eternal wings bc I couldnt get the combat down as a kid and just played origins so this helped a lot since Im now playing the remaster... Too bad I had to download a english mod to get the dub instead of the Japanese crap. Like wtf nintendo why? It makes absolutely no sense to remove the dub, especially since modders made a mod for both as of today as they just released the origins mod too.
I’ll have to look into that. God I miss the Origins dub lol.
I would absolutely love to do this for my remaster. Where and how can I?
@@sbeve6559 google it
I'm still confused lol
It can be a little convoluted haha. Anything specific?
Sounds like origins combat is much more boring than in eternal wings. I have only played Eternal wings and I really liked how flexible it was. It is too bad they dumb down things in origins.
@@Baoran Origins’ combat is more about speed. The flow the battles is faster, and combos are more restrictive because the game gives you less time to think. Enemies also hit MUCH harder, and the combat punishes you severely for having bad deck ratios. The 2 combat systems are really apples and oranges - they didn’t dumb things down, they’re just very different. That said, they’re also different enough that people will inevitably have their preferences.
@@ThrillingDuck Isn't it usually reason why people play games with turn based combat that you have time to think and plan what you do?
@@Baoran Sure! But Origins has an ATB system, which plenty of beloved classic RPGs have (Chrono Trigger, FF4-6, etc). On top of that, deck builders are about making the best possible plays with the hand you're dealt, when all your options aren't immediately available to you in a menu.
BATEN KAITOS?????? GDI
I didnt understand a thing xD definitely not buying that
is this game impossibly hard? is this a grind fest?
lord of the spring, fireballs, rainbow spider, manor soldiers, giacomo and cloud island cats were all unbeatable for me. these weren't even close calls. they were impossible.
i don't want to cheat myself through the game. i use pairs, straights and the right elements. i'm fully leveled up.
the game is supposd to be easy according to the internet. what am i doing wrong. every opponent is much too strong. i completely regret wasting my money right now.
This is highly unusual. Have you been avoiding normal enemy encounters? Eternal Wings is much easier than Origins on average, and Origins isn’t very difficult if you build your deck well. If your decks are solid in Eternal Wings and you’re having that much trouble, then it sounds like you’re just under leveled.
Both of these games have zero grinding required so long as you tackle all normal enemies that you see when you enter a screen. If you’ve been doing that, then the only other thing I can think of is that your deck isn’t as good as you’re indicating it is. Even if you use combos, you still need strong cards in your combos. Are your cards up to date for where you are in the game?
@@ThrillingDuck
i'm only at the fishing village. that's what frustrates me so much. i'm at the beginning of the game. there shouldn't even be many things i can do wrong at this point.
my characters are level eight class two. i only found one piece of gear. my decks are 25/25. my cards are the first six sword magnus, the first ten spell cards and random equip magnus. almost all my healing spoiled into other stuff.
what is a good deck? i remove opposing elements and try to keeps card types balanced. that's no longer possible since most of my healing spoiled. now it's mostly damage and defense.
@@yoshoverse Hmm, I feel bad - I'm not sure what else to suggest. I'm pretty sure you can replenish your healing items at magnus shops. You can also make use of field magnus to heal in between battles (those like shish-kebab and cracker platter magnus lol). If you have Gibari, you should have a full party of 3, which should make combat more manageable.
If battles are going so poorly, try a post-mortem approach. What exactly is going wrong? Are you simply not drawing what you need when you need it? Try altering your deck ratios (ex. more offensive cards than defensive ones, or vice verca, rather than 50/50 split). Are you simply not doing enough damage or are enemies doing too much damage? Sounds like you just need levels or better cards in that case.
It's admittedly difficult for me to fully accurately assess the difficulty because I grew up with these games, but I can say with certainty that Eternal Wings is by far the easier and more forgiving of the two titles. If it's any consolation, I genuinely think the combat here becomes a little easier (on average) the farther you progress, because you have more options and longer combo strings.
@@ThrillingDuck
i haven't used the stores much. earning money in this game is difficult with one camera.
i'll either get ouclassed completely or i'll get chipped down in a couple of fights.
i found that ignoring prizes actually works better but i'm still getting wrecked.
maybe the third character will help. i'm really not sure what i'm doing wrong.
@@yoshoverse Ah I think you may be going down the wrong path! If you’re at Nashira but don’t have Gibari yet then you’re probably going down the cloudy path. They open that up before you’re supposed to go there to progress haha. Explore Nashira more thoroughly and recruit Gibari, then take his boat out from the dock to the lesser celestial river (rather than exiting town on foot). That’s your next story destination.
If you’re attempting the cloudy path early and with only 2 party members, that explains the problem.
What the actual hell were they thinking NOT putting a tutorial for this system in the game, especially the remaster version simce its newer? This video is god send.......even tho i think I'll have to watch it a few time to understand it fully. 🫤
In Eternal Wings, there is TECHNICALLY a verbal tutorial from an old man NPC in like the second room of the first dungeon for anyone who actually has the patience to sit there and read a mountain of text as like the first thing they do in the game lol. Origins doesn’t even have that though as far as I know.