Worcester Greenstar Return manifold
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มี.ค. 2024
- How long will it take to replace a Worcester Greenstar Junior Return Manifold. In this video you see how I tackle a job never done before by myself. I'm sure it can be done faster and with practice. Don't dhy away from things and you will master them soon enough. See the links below for some of the tools I use in this video.
This channel is to help engineers fix boilers. I try and teach boiler repair for the betterment of the UK gas industry. The better we are the more work we get.
Common UK boiler brands such as Vaillant, Ideal, Worcester and Baxi all have more obscure models and this is one of them.
Unlike the USA, our boilers are all high efficiency and more technology makes for harder diagnosis.
For videos on Burnham, Weil-Mclain, Peerless and Lochinvar find a US Channel.
I typed all that for better keyword and YT ratings. Lets see!!
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I love a worcester repair, a mate I work with passes all worcester to me, especially the hydrolic block jobs.. I dont take it all out though, I just remove the pump and wiggle it out, only because I don't want to disturb the other side incase that starts leaking... I could always recommend when doing right hand block to take a turbine adapter aswell.. Great job as always oli. See you on another next sunday
Yeah, that’s what I do now, just depends on the access availability, sometimes it’s just easier doing it the long way 😂😂😂
I can't believe they don't give you one with it. Give you the diverter that never goes wrong but not the German cheese adaptor???
Turbine adaptor and aav👍🏻
Plate clean whilst your at it for extra ££
PRV spot must have been done on a "bring your kids to work day" at the WB design dept!
Always a pleasure to watch the master at work...💯
Thanks :-)
Good to watch this, very efficient.
Done the LHS & PRV more than once.
I have done lots and lots of PRVs and can usually do them in under 45min. I always take my time on the first couple then try and speed things up. :-)
Great job as always Ollie
Thanks Keith, this was a nice job and my hands survived. :-)
Great job. Professional every time.
I appreciate that! I'm not always professional though :-)
Good video Oĺllie. Make it look easy.
Thanks 👍Its not to bad though. :-)
Great job as usual
Thank you! Cheers! It was easy enough. :-)
Found a leak on the flow unit today. I'm pleased it's not the return
It's funny I watched your video this morning and thought of you straight away when 8 found it
I carry the flow one on the van. I have not done one in a few years though. Commercial keeps me busy enough :-)
That’s bloody fast 👍👍
Good video I always enjoy yours fella! If I had to give any advice, I didn't see you might of, is silicone grease the fibers. I service and repair for a big landlord, my mate fits the boilers, and I always know when he hasn't greased them because after a couple years they tend to leak, the ones he has grease at the time never seem to need fixing. Good repair keep them coming 😊!
Thanks for the tip. But if it leaks in a few years I get to fix it again :-)
Great job😊
Thank you! 😊 Getting through a few :-)
I'm ex British Gas. Great job mate. They used to give us 56 minutes to do a breakdown like this.
We got 45 minutes for a service (good for a combi but imagine you've got an aga or back boiler or a gas fire) and 56 minutes for a breakdown.
If we went over the time limit, it reflected in our performance review and we'd get called into meetings.
I left the Gas Industry because British Gas grinded me down.
Watching videos like this makes me actually miss fixing boilers.
The left hand block and right hand block was possibly the most common breakdown we got.
I have worked for British Gas also. I liked my time with them. I didn'tv like how they treated contractors and their own staff in the last few years. I'm surprised they can still get people to work for them. ;-)
What do you do now?
I am still with BG 😩😩😫😫😫😭😭😭
@@HeatingGeek I shifted careers completely into IT.
I came through the apprenticeship system in Gas.
I reckon the most difficult job at BG was doing those old cdi worcester diverter valves.
You just look at that boiler and something starts leaking. Also, if the isolation valves leak, you have to take the boiler off the wall.
Stockholm syndrome :-)
Did one last week, nearly broke me 😂 the brass fitting that you struggled to get in is always a nightmare it comes with a 4mm o ring, I purchased some 3.8mm from an engineering company which give you a nice snug fit without the need for a two ton press 😂
What a pain in the ass that was. Why did they make it so tight?
Always use the old one.
It goes back in nicely and never leaks.
I will in future :-)
Quality once again!
Thanks :-) Nice little job tbh. :-)
@@HeatingGeek It was
Nice job,I never change any o rings, just the fibre washers,never had one leak as of yet,we always replace prv and flow adapter, dont know which is worse return manifold on worcester or hydroplate,support on vaillant 😅
Same
Both are a pain. Vaillant are horrible if the DV has leaked on the screws. :-)
I don't even take the pump off. Just take the entire hydroblock out.
Dreaded right manifold, the slayer of hands, the knuckle muncher 😂
Yep, I got away unscathed tbh. :-)
Looks very much like a Bosch boiler and they don't even try to hide it, great job 👍
what do you mean its a Worcester Bosch???
@@TH-camHero666 It looks very much like a Bosch Condens 5000. The heat exchanger is a WB6 and several other parts looks Bosch-like as well. Also look at the circulation pump it is a Grundfos re-labelled Bosch. The more I look at it, it is a Bosch boiler more than likely made at the Bosch factory in Turkey. Ah now I see Worcester Bosch is the same company in the UK :D I didn't know...
@@yannkitson116 the I junior and si junior came out in the UK first in 2004. it was a UK design and built (plant 5570 Worcester) it had several production updates to it over the years, leading the the Mk5, and it was launched to different markets under a different name. it was at the time, the best selling boiler. the kebab (WB6) heat ex was an amazing design, to reduce the FGT from what was produced to then below 70 degrees c. I had mine for 19 yrs.
@@dazl7954 Interesting information, thank you.
@dazl7954 You sir, are a nerd. Of the very best kind. Thank you for the information. I'm not such a fan of the boiler or heat exchanger and most will not last the 19y yours did. You obviously have a very good knowledge of this boiler and heat exchanger. Do you find they are beginning to leak at the ally stainless seam. I have had quite a few in the last 3 years doing it.
Good on ya! I've never removed the whole hydraulic block doing flow or return manifolds. Can just remove it and leave plate in. Interesting plan of attack and to see others workings.
Yeah, it looks like it can be done that way. It was easy enough the way I done it tbf. Do you find the bypass difficult?
@@HeatingGeek yeah it can be tricky.
I'm glad it's not just me. :-)
@HeatingGeek next time I do one. I'll try my best to film it and upload afterwards
Cool. Helps everyone out. :-)
I normally cut the old bypass off on the old manifold side with either a hacksaw or multi tool. Saves the headache of trying to pry it out.
Taking the whole lot out made that bit easy though. :-)
Same here, cut it out saves taking the left hand block out 👍🏼
Bypass needs to stay in. If you struggle getting it back in put the bypass on the right hand manifold then push it in the left hand side. Gives you more room.
I tried this today, worked beautifully, thanks for the tip mate.
@@MagicDoughnut Yeah, I'll try it in the future too. :-)
Seasoned pro to seasoned pro. Nice. Very nice
Thank you sir. :-)
I really sensed your excitement about the leak could be the PRV😊😂
Life ain't that simple & Deffo never fair at all.
So NEVER get your hopes up again.....as coming back down to earth is with a BIG THUD😮😫
I was upset I lost the old pro tbh. :-) Would of cleaned up a treat.
There’s a prv built into the right hand side manifold for cold mains pressure. At the top. RHS manifold takes me about 50 mins. 20 mins for the lhs
They could just make them out of brass but then what would we do. :-)
Great video as always what’s thee going rate now to do that job plus the materials now adays ?
I would always charge a minimum of 150 plus the parts.
I am well retired now but in my illustrious career after BG I set up ( with 2 other trainers) the first combi boiler workshop in the UK (that is a combi boiler workshop with different manufacturers product) I also wrote combi fault finding books. The Service Management and Training Management were amazed at the complexity of changing parts, basically they had no idea. I also got the Service Department to include 8” adjustable spanner’s and the gasman’s friend the 10” Stanley SuperDrive screwdriver (was much better than the later PozidDive screwdriver). BTW this was NWG.
Was the combi boiler workshop for BG? To help train their engineers?
@@HeatingGeek yes it was at Stratford training centre and we also did another at Birkenhead training centre. The guys involved were me Alan Haynes Steve Thomas and Charley Smith. The year we started them was 1982. I also built an unvented workshop that was a year earlier and trained a lot of the areas Building Control Officers plus water authority surveyors. I was on the Technical services working group that wrote the DM7 document on UDHWSS.
Sorry my memory slipped…..it may have been document DM4
I don't know what that is :-) DM7/DM4 UDHWSS doesn't come up if I search it@@philiplancaster9682
@@HeatingGeek It is a BG document. I have a couple of copies. In fact I have quite a lot of stuff. I have a complete set of Aspect Magazines plus the additional Gaspect add ons. I wrote articles in Aspect. If there is a way that you can get in touch with me personally I will share information with you.
I fitted my first return manifold the other month and i just ended up taking the whole lot out in one massive hydraulic section was a bit of a pig getting it back in, had to angle it in a funny way. But after fitting it only took about 70 minutes if i remember
Best way to learn is take your time until you get it. :-)
Return manifold, prv , flow reg and turbine adapter and condense oring for good measure. I do 2-3 of these a week on my patch 🥺
What a shit design. But I don't mind :-)
Good shout, prv and adapter always with the manifold. You're right about those condense orings too, always go flat, I just turn them upside down and grease them like an absolute cowboy 😂
Nice to watch somebody at the top of their game.
Grease saves the day
Im not so sure about that. A bit rusty lately. :-)
The return connection, that you put the old o ring back on, using the new oring, when pushing it back into the block. Press it up against the floor or a door frame, goes in square and easy.
Thats a good tip. That was the second worse bit of the job. :-)
@@HeatingGeek haha you did it completely different to how I do mine but that’s each to there own mate. Decent time for a first attempt. 🙏🏽
I will pull just the RHS next time. It's taken 20 years for me to do my first one. I'm sure the next is just around the corner. :-)
The trick with the return stub is put it in dry or just a bit of spit on it, place on a flat surface and press the manifold onto it works every time nice and easy, always use a new trap Oring new prv and new flow adapter.
I would always clean and refit the existing PRV. It's just me though. Habit. Someone else said to fit the O ring like that too. I will give it a go next time. Thanks for the tip. ;-)
Yeah totally agree, brass connection on a flat surface then some weight on the block and it pops in no problem.
Haven't watched the whole video yet I am whating while putting my comment but hoping you got flow adapter too
I can't believe they don't come with it shame on Worcester ;-)
Great vid!
Another thing, why do some gas engineers not change undersized gas pipes when doing a combi swap… is there not a rule against this?
Some guys seem to think that it’s fine unless another gas appliances flame picture is being affected. Probably too much a hassle for them… just saying
Because they all cut corners and are not doing things properly. I would say most installers will replace the gas pipe. Only the people fighting over 1500 boiler changes avoid doing things properly. Market is saturated by sh3te.
Can't see it on the video but did you remove two part black clip which is in between hex and return pipe holding it in place?
I didn't see it??
@@HeatingGeek wasn't there then . It's usualy been pain to put it back in place
Ah ok. :-)
Can you show how you fixed the pcb last week ?
I will. I have filmed some of it already. I will be later in the year. Or maybe cut into another video...
How I hated doing this job, but they persuaded us on a WB course just to pull the lot out in one piece, so thats what i used to do (retired now). If you have a method that works for you, stick to it.
Like 99% of jobs, if you get stuck in its not too bad. I used to get LD for the PRVs and get all the local engineers to book them for me. I can usually do them in less than an hour some days I would do 4 PRVs and 6-7 other jobs. BG stopped me doing them because I was doing too many hours on paper. :-)
Sunday night Heating Geeks on the big TV with the wife😂 my popcorn in hand more the same please... Training nights} 😂👍
The wife is obviously plotting how to do you in... :-)
😂😂😂👍
I don't even try and have control of the TV in my house :-)
Same job this week
Have you done it before?
No mate, I've always avoided Worcester boilers and we don't see many in the North East either.
Delboy in the north east? Lots of Vaillant and glowworm up there?
@@HeatingGeek Decent amount of Vaillant, some Glowworm, a lot of Baxi boilers! Also a lot of Ideal boilers installed in new builds.
Well, when the new builds burn down...... probably stick to Baxi
Toughest part of that job is if the washers get stuck to the brass connections and break as you try to remove them then you gotta try to scrape the remains off. Always cuts your fingers up
I always push against them and they pop off.
Before you started I said 1.5 hours as all the checks at the end, I don't like these boilers that was a nightmare for me when I first did it. It's just your attitude to it was great. Now how much did you charge for this out of curiosity? I'm thinking 100/120 plus vat ?
i would say £320
@@TH-camHero666 really parts included I'm just talking labour
I won't do much for less that 150. 150 is my usual charge
Parts included. yes@youtubeHero666
@@HeatingGeek I think your London based I definitely could be wrong here, if that is the case with inflation all the rest makes sense. Great content best on TH-cam.
Yeah was defiantly on crack on this one 😂😂😂😂
Why? How could you tell :-)
I salvage bypass’s of old boilers I take out then when I do a r/h block I cut the bypass in half
Good idea that. :-)
Easy job.
Yeah, it isn't bad at all. :-)
Worcester manifolds generally leak because installers didn’t fit shock arrestors in the mains cold water supply. But then Worcester Bosch have always had a bad reputation when it comes to boiler design.
Worcester have a problem and blame installers because they didn't fit a shock arrestor. Lots of other brands don't have the same issue though. I think they all ask for shock arrestors now but only Worcester pinhole and leak (consistently). Vaillant combi compacts and sine 18s had shock arrestors inside the boiler as standard.
I always cut the plastic part of the bypass with a hacksaw when it’s in place
A couple of people have said that. I have never don't that tbh. Might have to one day though. Is it not a complete pain in the ass to do?
I’ve still got scars on the back of my hands from my first right side hydrobloc replacement. Why boiler manufacturers leave such sharp edges is beyond mystifying.
Not all boiler manufacturers :-)
You can save some time with cutting the bypass housing with a junior hacksaw, it saves time & gets rid of the struggle. Defo easier than removing the full hydraulic block, but that’s just me.
Cut it in situ & the rh block comes out sweet, no dramas
Nice one. A couple of people have said that. Is it not a pain to cut it in place?
Not at all, it takes about 30 seconds to cut. You just have to be careful to miss the bypass pipe but with the pump out there’s enough room. Btw it’s good to see you’re back posting on TH-cam, always great content 👍
Thanks man, it's good to be back. :-)
@14:07 the small ribbed plastic device, is a silencer and does not come with the new manifold, only the non return valve is supplied. not a bad job as you have never done one before, but you can do it a quicker way by just removing the pump, cold inlet pipe, and the manifold itself. good job tho.
I will try and do just the right next time. :-) It wasn't bad and I wouldn't worry about doing another :-)
@@HeatingGeek the 1st is always the worst, as you do it by the book, but then you find you will get faster.
Exactly. I have 3 different ways to do the PRVs and just do what I think is best. :-)
Did the left hand one this week, a few profanities 😄😄
Have to swear at them. ALWAYS ;-)
Parts rrp plus 10% and £200 sound fair?
Yep. Sounds good to me. :-)
Never had to take it all out for either left or right
Fair play. I always do it way a manufacturer recommends first. But every time i do a job i try and do it faster.
O rings on Worcester's can be reused.. even the plate rubber rings.. don't necessarily need replacing.
I agree. very good o rings.
🤘😎🤘
Thanks wayne :-)
I only do the right never whole block
Put a new safety valve in ffs 😂
I did :-)
He did FFS, were you not listening 🤦🏻
How much would you charge for labour on this job?
150
Oh yea them spring locking clip things can do one aswell 😂 now ive sort of sussed out how they undo itll be easier next one i do but when u work on social housing and have 4 services that manifold and a 3 port to do in your AM slot panic does get the better of me sometimes 😂😂😂
Who you working for? Are you Als nephew?
@HeatingGeek yea mate, I'm working for Aaron services now, Stevenage council contract, but looking to move onto something else where I can spend more time on jobs rather than have to fly through them as fast as possible
Flying round is stressful as fuck. I do like a little chill in my day. :-)
@@HeatingGeek any jobs going spare on heating geek 😬 ....(honestly)😇
If you asked 2 months ago then yes. Ask me in September and you'll have a job. Im not sure how relaxed you would find it. Al asked me about 6 months before he passed but I told him it was too stressful for him. We do a lot of driving and have to manage private customers....
Fastest in the west. Don't know what was best, the thumbnail or the work carried out 🤔
Made that look harder than it is,
Jesus
Your welcome xx
OOOf! That's going to take at least a couple of hours.
Not a bad job at all. ;-)
Haha I have the same air pump 🎉
Works a treat. :-)
Yo!
They’re not to bad to be honest worst part is getting the bypass pipe out and back in again
It was easy with the whole lot out. I do struggle when its in place though.
And if you remove the bypass make sure you put it in the right way...youll find out when you come to re fit the pump housing 😅
Why, what happens? You cant get it back in?
@@HeatingGeek yeah I had one today and by rushing slightly I put the by pass in the wrong way round . When you come to put the pump housing back in, the bend configuration of the bypass won't allow it.
Oh, I know what you mean. :-)
Washers always a bugger
Find them easy tbf always take flow turbine adapter and prv,
Im shocked it doesn't come with the flow adaptor. comes with a diverter but not the adaptor. Cheap cu;ts.
That return o ring is always a sod lol
I couldn't get it, so in went the old one. :-)
I will probably just use the old one next time too/ Do you have any tips for getting it on?
I did one today and put the old one back in. Nightmare. Shoulda called Eddie hall squeeze in back in for me
@@stephenturner6201 I bet you secretly loved it :-)
@HeatingGeek give up and toss it in the bin then use the old one😂 It surly can't be the correct size it's virtually impossible to get it in and if you do the bloody thing just pops out again at a funny angle
On the hot water outlet I just fit a filling loop cap just to save yourself from someone in the house turning the tap on
Thats a great tip. :-) It didn't even cross my mind. Thanks
😂 not just me ..prv behind fridge wouldn't believe that
I was on a roll and then....
How many washers left on 😂
only lost 1. ;-)
Where's your trusty moped😊
Rotting away in the Garage. I don't really go into central London anymore. I need to sell it.
Ollie did you ever once consider a career in the police as a forensic scientist as your attention to detail is first class? Ps. I had exactly the same job 3 weeks ago on the same make/model of boiler in a compartment not big enough to swing a cat and I'm no Umpalumpa. Thermal plastic is the bane of our life!
Bane of our life or money making earner? :-) See the good in everything. :-)
@@HeatingGeekYes that is one way of looking at it, it keeps us in a living but perhaps I am no longer as agile and nimble as I use to be 😔
I see all boilers as good. Some for us, some for customers, some for installers.
Seems too much that way , I take pump etc out , then swivel by pass pipe then remove manifold only
I do the flow by its self. This is the first time I have don't it so took the whole lot out. Also the bypass can be a fucing cu9t to get out.
Whatever you do when changing a flow manifold is not rush or get stressed out 😂😂😂😂
My quickest time yet was 1hour 15 minutes ish
Sorry return manifold 😂😂😂😂
Always sway the flow adapter while you’re at it 😂😂😂
My mate who used to work for Worcester is a magician we did a right hand manifold left hand platt prv pumped up pressure vessel was done in under a hour
@@charliewillis8527 dr pipe has a really good video on how to speed things up, have a look
In comparison to this job, how long would it take to do exactly the same job on vaillant 😂. Vaillant is real honey 😅
Yeah and you don't worry about taking the skin of your hands :-)
Mate, it’s easier to pull the block off inside the boiler
Next time. :-)
@@HeatingGeek 😂😂
I refuse to do this job
Why, just get stuck in. Its not as bad as you think :-)
Of course WB make good boilers, which company cant? But why are certain models so hard to work on, why are the PRVs hidden, why are the compression rings made from tungsten, why do the down draught circular heat exchangers fail PS its not sludge!! Why does the WB tech helpline deny all defects (the Life PCB for example), even basics like boiler cases which are hard to remove and replace. How many years did the white plastic T filling loop key raise multiple complaints from customers, installers and even WB engineers but it took 20+ years to resolve. WB need to look at its internal auditing.
All boilers are good for someone. Customer, installer, service and repair engineer, or manufacturer. WB are good for installers and customers. Not good for service and repair. :-)
i take my hat off to u, hate worcesters with a passion, must have been the last manufacturer to move their ex vessels from the back to inside the boiler, whoever thought having to take a boiler off the wall or dismantle the flue to remove a serviceable part should have been flogged
All boilers are good for some people and crap for others. Worcester have always been good for installers as a fit and forget boiler. Sludge, no problem. 7ish years of bliss for customers and then they fall apart. The we have to fix them...... The problems really begin
@@HeatingGeek thanks for the response geek, just found ur channel a couple of days ago. Enjoying wgat ive seen, oarticulatly that old vaillant combi, fitted quite a few of the old vc & vcw, never really fdd any maintemence though as they nvr broke down
@@scotsdunc They were great mechanical boilers. Unfortunately when they broke down people just replaced them. The boilers that went in were never as good;
Ollie you’re the ‘man’!!!......Did you ever consider a career in Gynaecology??......Well, you did Wall Paper your Front Hall through the Letterbox!!
Great content mate👍👍
The wee nugget, if the hard of thinking missed it; EV Pumped up to only .4/5Bar......However be mindful on the CH system head👍👍
Keep em coming luv.
Dick Puller👍👍
Thanks for watching and commenting as always. :-) This job was quite nice tbh. I wouldn't worry about doing another job like this :-)